+Eric Church Could you imagine all of Oliver girlfriends including Nyssa and Sara all in the arrow cave. That would be 2 ex girlfriends, his league wife, his fiancé and his kid mother haha
I love how Thea has grown, given the circumstances of the the duties and responsibilities of Team Arrow. She has went from fiery resentment from what could be considered as necessary lies, to realizing that with said occupations, there is a healthy and much needed level of secrecy for the safety of the ones you love. Thea gets it. Good Scene.
+Derrick Chandler sorry it's stupid scene & not 100% because of Thea, but because MALCOLM KNOWS about William & Felicity doesn't? I agree with this : ''Before Thea and her big mouth, which pretty much felt like a bit of character assassinaton for the sake of this storyline if you ask me. or at least OOC. Mostly because (If didn´t hit my head with the pavement and lost my memory) she left town bc Roy had lied to her “to keep her safe”… I was shaking my head at the writers so bad I thought I was going to break my neck. I mean it makes sense her PoV in one way: she was talking about William´s safety, if you consider that everyone in Oliver´s life is a target and blah blah blah… but then again… Oliver never told Thea that the kid was ALREADY in danger. It was completely nonesense that he didn´t mention the tiny detail that Malcolm, who swore revenge and is evil af, knows of William existence. That was the biggest plot hole ever.'' Amen. sorry but this scene bullshit
+Derrick Chandler honestly i disagree with what you see as development. Thea has had issues with lying since we met her. Moira lied to her, oliver lied to her and malcolm lied to her and used her. This scene was a disservice to her character. She knows what it feels like to be lied to by the people closest to you, so she should know what this will do to felicity when she finds out. Laurel would have made more sense to be honest. This story line makes no sense that's why it doesn't work. Samantha's reasons to make oliver lie, make no sense. She doesn't know oliver is the GA therefore she's not doing it to protect him, she's doing this because she's still pissed about what moira did to her. Felicity can keep a secret. Besides if oliver was not planning on taking her aways from her or anything. I can understand why he would think its the right thing to do since he wants to see his son, but lying to your significant other its still wrong. And felicity will most likely dump him. This storyline is terribly written, if the writers at least made samantha's reasons to make oliver lie even remotely logical, then it would be more bearable.
I love how people are attacking Felicity and saying Thea should have granted her wisdom, yet seem to forget that him keeping this secret didn't keep William safe at all. Malcolm and Damien still found out about the kid so basically, Oliver fucked up his marriage for nothing. Lies dont protect anyone.
@@alisonarrowood8217 she basically dumps Oliver cause He was sending his son somewhere safe while she acts like she has a word where he can go or not? okay totally more reasonable than Thea-
I don't believe Felicity was unreasonable at all. The fact of the matter is that there was a period of time between when Oliver determined for sure that William was his kid and when Samantha gave him her ultimatum during which he should have told Felicity. Ending the relationship was the best possible thing she could have done for herself at that time, because one cannot possibly hope to sustain a long term relationship when there is such a clear and blatant lack of trust, and ending it when she did saved her the pain and heartache of when it eventually fell apart on it's own anyway. Also, had you been paying attention you would have noticed that once Felicity came to an understanding about the real reason for Oliver's apparent lack of trust in her, she was willing to accept where she herself had done wrong in regards to their relationship and began to take the necessary steps on her end to repair it.
Ari lack of trust? So when felicity lies to him yall don’t bat an eyelash but when Oliver does it to keep his son safe and to have a relationship y’all want to demonize him. Smh
Who? Genuinely asking because no one actually gets mad at him after having the full story, not even Felicity. She’s upset, because Oliver lied, and she does understand why he did it, but it doesn’t make it hurt less, especially because Oliver’s first instinct is to hide the truth from the people he loves, even when he really doesn’t want to. It’s a sign of this huge problem in their relationship, so how can Felicity agree to marry him when he not only kept something so big from her, but also continues to lie and keep secrets from her?
Exactly considering that she passed on this kinda thing to her mom about lance and also she wasn't the only 1 who didn't know about Oliver's son(diggle and laurel).
Jarrod Watson Yes, it was right coming from someone who rejected her mother and brother when she learned that they had hidden her who was her father.... BS
The difference is that Felicity was gonna marry Oliver, and he was keeping this big secret from her. She understood the position he was in with Samantha, she understands that Oliver wanted to tell her, but it doesn’t make it hurt less. As Oliver here said, him keeping the secret, regardless of if he’s keeping a promise, doesn’t make this any more right
Here's the thing, William wasn't a secret to anyone that Samantha knew. She chose to make him a secret for Oliver and everyone he knew. I don't think you know what actually constitutes a "secret".
Poor Oliver... He wants to tell Felicity, but if he does, he can't *see* William, his *only child*. Plus, we saw how Felicity took it in the timeline where he found out that same day, so why would it ever be a good idea to tell her?
She took it badly because she found it out on her own and she realized Oliver would never have told her. And given she has been keeping the secrets she knows about him for years now, why should Oliver think she couldn't keep this one? Samamtha would never find out he'd told her unless one of them blabbed, and both of them would do their best to not let that happen.
Tom Hazell Yeah, I guess he could just tell Felicity behind Samantha's back. I think he would have done that, though, in time. In the original timeline, she definitely made the wrong decision by calling him out on the secret then.
Honestly, the whole plot line only existed as a contrivance for them to break up, which is kind of shown by how they used literally the worst person in the entire show to advice Oliver to keep secrets from his loved ones, since the first three seasons of Thea's story line has been about how how Oliver's, Moira's and Malcolm's lies have screwed up her life and relationships with them.
@Troy Goldberg no, she wasn't a step parent. He was hardly a parent himself to the child. You only become a step parent if you want to become that and the parent is alright with that. Many relationships and marriages make it pretty clear that person is not parenting the child. Some people don't want to be a parent or a step parent. Of course later on SPOILERS she was indeed a parent to William and enjoyed that role.
I love how people are attacking Felicity and saying Thea should have granted her wisdom, yet seem to forget that him keeping this secret didn't keep William safe at all. Malcolm and Damien still found out about the kid so basically, Oliver fucked up his marriage for nothing. Lies dont protect anyone.
@Math GeekT125 Except that, Thea was the immature one here. Nobody hides his child from the person you want to spend the rest of their life with. Oliver was going to make Felicity a stepmother without her consent, nobody does that. You have to give a choice to you companion. That's how it works. Honesty is the first quality for a happy marriage!
Still dont get how felicity gets the right to be piss off over this, the mother of the child said no to telling anyone, and that's the end of that, no one else gets a say, not even oli, not after how he and his mother acted before he was born
Bullshit. He didn't do anything to Samantha when he found out she was pregnant. He freaked out and told his mother, and Moira treated Samantha poorly, but Samantha also knew that Oliver had nothing to do with his mother offering her that check. Blackmailing the father of your child is disgusting, and I don't understand why so many fans are willing to let Samantha off the hook.
I understand why felicity would be mad becaue oliver could have told her and the mother would never no simple and pluss malcom, thea already knew so how it is fair they knew before felicity knew that's the problem with oliver he always lies to the one who cares about him
KageNoTenshi Oliver did Nothing bad to her where he didn’t deserve to see his child. Oliver does have parental rights to his child so Samantha shouldn’t to be able to dictate who Oliver can and can’t tell by threatening to keep William away from it. Of course this is a super hero show so their not gonna take the time to show Oliver can take her to court and get visitation but just because your a mother you are not the only person who can control who sees your child.
Imagine, for a moment, the turn of events had it been FELICITY in Thea's chair. If Felicity had been the one to research it, put two and two together and be so damn understanding...
I loved this conversation. There is no correct way to react after revealing a so-called lie or secret. I don't like Felicity's reactions, but I'm staying neautral because there is not a final answer on how to react. But I think it's great that Thea found out. Thea is William's aunt, and they are connected by blood. And that is btw the reason I don't understand why Malcolm revealed the secret to Damien Darhk about William. Malcolm is Thea's father, and Thea is William's aunt. Malcolm should care for Thea's sake, and Thea' care about William because of Oliver.
@@TiLoRaine Yes, of course, I dont mind my old comments - its entertaining thinking back that TH-cam excisted 4 years ago and that time goes by fast 😄 It feels like a lifetime ago! Do you want me to delete my comment? 😆 Someone recently answered my comment on a yt-video. We both found it funny when she/he figured out my comment was 6 years old and "a little" out of date😜😆😆
I love how understanding Thea was finding out. I can see why Felicity was mad, but she should have understood that it was his child, and that your children should always come first no matter what or who comes in the way. I love Felicity but she was being selfish.
Felicity was being selfish, when Oliver is the one who chose to lie to her? There's many things that he could have chosen to tell her, that still would have been the truth, but he went for inventing a lie instead. He insulted and disrespected her in one fell swoop.
@@TiLoRaine But he was forced to lie to her. I didn't understand before either why Oliver didn't tell Felicity. But now I understand this is not about Felicity, but about the son of Oliver. He is the most important person to Oliver more than Felicity.
@@user-qg8eu6dj7q He was not forced to lie to her. He chose to lie to her. Being forced would be something like, being forced to make a phone call while the person is holding a gun to your head. As you can clearly see, that isn't what happened. So can the rhetoric. If a man or a woman are any kind of decent human being, their kids better be more important to them, than anyone else is to them... but again, that has NOTHING to do with what happened here. What happened here was terrible writing, coupled with zero logic.
@@TiLoRaine It's right . This is a bad scenario. But Felicity behaved horribly towards Oliver. It wasn't his fault that Samantha had given him that condition. As I wrote earlier the speech about Oliver's son.
@@user-qg8eu6dj7q No, but it is Oliver's fault that he abided by it. Felicity didn't treat Oliver badly. Oliver treated Felicity badly and in turn, allowed Samantha to treat both he and Felicity badly. Felicity isn't the villain in this story.
Denise Dixon So, Thea was wrong. At the end of season 2 and the beginning of season 3, she has strong words against lies. She knew that secret never stays hidden by her experience. She wasn't the best person to give some advice to Oliver about secrets
She was immature here. She didn't know what meant being married. What real adult hides his child from his future spouse ? The only people who are against Felicity for this are people who don't know anything about marriage!
@@jujumpe7374 @Juju Mpe 1. She listened his side of the story and tried to put herself in his situation 2. He's the green arrow so the more people knew, the more William would be at risk 3. Unlike Thea, felicity first thought is to judge Oliver. If you want to talk about the meaning of marriage, then you should take in consideration that felicity didn't even let Oliver explain (at least in the erased timeline 4x08). Part of marriage is communicating with your partner and felicity failed at that part as well. So they are both at fault. But as Thea stated, the MOTHER of his son TOLD him to not tell anyone about William otherwise he would never be able to see his son. What kind of father would risk the chance of seeing his son 4. And since Oliver can't lie otherwise he's evil and the worst in the world, let's look back at 4x01. During a conversation between them, Oliver realised that felicity was working with team arrow behind his back and Oliver tried his best to understand her situation.
@@carl_yeung She couldn't understand his situation, because the only kind of marriage she knew was the one where people cheat on each other... Her mother was cheating on her father with their best friend, her biological father was cheating on his wife with her mother, and her father was cheating on his wife! Not really a marriage where people trust each other!
@@carl_yeung Unlike Thea's biological father Malcolm, what kind of threat Felicity was for William ? Besides, Oliver didn't tell Felicity and William ended up being kidnapped (before that, Oliver knew that Malcolm knew)!
Brutal is right! This was a disservice for women who are single mothers by making her bitter and vindictive. It was a shame that she made Oliver keep him a secret from his family. It must’ve been a relief to share with Thea and would’ve been even better if he could’ve shared with Felicity. This is going to blow up in his face.
@@Riskofrain527 It's sad that you would say such an idiotic thing. It's even sadder that your parents have to live with knowing what they brought into the world. :(
The thing is he could have easily told Felicity and they could've kept THAT secret together, but instead he's going to keep that secret with Thea, of all people. Oliver's baby-mama and having a kid is the BIGGEST plot hole ever which is saying something considering the entire Arrow show is riddled with plot holes.
+Elena Casale You watch the flash? Cuz they hinted alot in flash s1 about william.. Its not really a plothole. This entire conversation shows how oliver gets more humane and softer every year. UNTILL THE DARKNESS [spoiler] takes him back to his lian-yu self on march 23
when thea is the most understanding character felicity gets outraged twice both involving william iris by identity and noras betrayal and barry sends her back thea find out oliver is the hood even though he killed ~ thank you she's the most understanding character
To be fair. I'm on Samantha's side in this argument. The fewer people know about William the better for everyone, especially William. And anyone having a go at Oliver for it needs to wake up.
Couldn't they have just had Oliver find out about William and then, I don't know, not made it yet another hurdle for 'Olicity' to tackle? Couldn't it just have been an interesting addition to the plot that allowed us to see how Oliver had to grow and change to become a father? The show could have explored the difficulties with opening up his heart to love his child when he's already lost so much of his family. This was a great plot point on its own. It didn't need to become melodrama.
Of course they could, but they needed to stall the relationship because they were going on past S5... they just unfortunately chose to do it in a pathetic way, that only served to feed the Felicity/Olicity hater trolls.
He is in a bad place and he hates him self for keeping the secrect from felicity but he has no choice and it's the best thing for William to keep him safe 😢😢😢 heartbreaking as it is #poor oliver# # felicitys feelings# #poor olicity#
+Grainne Molloy disagree. Oliver is not doing it to keep him safe but to be able to see him. Oliver does not know damian knows he's his son. Samantha does not know oliver is the arrow. What the writers try to tell you in this scene, is that its okay to lie whether the circumstances. The idiotic thing is that Oliver knows Malcolm found out, and he practically threatened him, how is it possible that his life and the others lives are in danger and he thinks its still a good idea to lie? This story line makes no sense and its a disservice to Oliver's growth and even thea's development.
+Natalia Rdz true you make a good point no its not okay to lie but in olivers situation it is okay to lie and even if williams mother was okay with William and everyone knowing that oliver is his father it would be a risk for her and william it would put a target on their backs them both being apart of the green arrows life\ olivers life
+Natalia Rdz true you make a good point no its not okay to lie but in olivers situation it is okay to lie and even if williams mother was okay with William and everyone knowing that oliver is his father it would be a risk for her and william it would put a target on their backs them both being apart of the green arrows life\ olivers life
Grainne Molloy for her to make sense he would have keep it a secret from the public not his family. He can still see him the way he has and felicity and the team would know. That's why she makes no sense, the writers make no sense, this story line makes no sense. I get oliver feels terrible but when felicity finds out, she will have every right to be pissed and hurt. Also wtf? Malcolm, he's practically his nemesis, he knows!!!!!! Now his son's life is in danger how can he still stay still and lie? This is why its a mess honestly. Also how can we connect with a boy who has been seen in literally one episode? The writers screwed up big time, there's a million ways this could have been handled better, even the lie.
I didnt think that Thea would agree to not telling people who matter to Oliver about his son. Wasn't Thea the one to be mad at Moria and Oliver about keeping a secret about her father. I get that they want a fall out for olicity but using Thea hmm. I also think Thea is his kryptonite anything involving Thea and Oliver ends up bad like Oliver got drugged with vertigo because of Thea, Oliver losing the company because he worry about Thea. Malcolm figure that out and use Thea for his bidding and resulting in Oliver getting stab.. now sensing a pattern fall out with Felicity and who knows what else smh
I think the worst part about Felicity finding out is that it happened through Damien Darkh, and because of the situation with William being kidnapped, she and Oliver didn't have time to talk things out when it was revealed to her.
This shows how Thea has grown and evolved she went from getting mad at her brother for lying to listening and trying to understand where he coming from … now that is character development
It's not a lie? it's JUST a promise that he is keeping to the mother of his child? WTF totally nonsense. I don't think this shows any kind of evolution on thea except for the fact that now she is more understandable to Oliver. But what the hell making a promise to his child's mother make it right to lie to his fiance. He even says that himself, it's not right. Period. And the :"keeping William as a secret is keeping him safe" doesn't even makes sense, what bad could cause if Felicity knew about his son?! she has proven that she know how to keep a fucking secret, she would've understand.
Ingryd Bianca dude why does felicity have the right to know cause she is his fiancé yeah sure oliver tells felicity then what noting changes it doesn’t make any difference my friend doesn’t tell his wife anything especially important parts of his life to his wife there’s nothing we can do and his wife is probably keeping a secret from him aswell and Robert and Moira did it too each other
Okay. What I don't understand is that samantha is calling a playboy and that he needs to hide and keep his son a secret from everyone that loves him. She doesn't know him, he hasn't been a playboy since the day got on the island. He was never the same doesn't she watch the news at all.
I was with Oliver, he did tell Felicity straight away the first time and she broke up with him and everyone died. Added with the fact that Samantha asked him to keep it a secret with the condition of if he does he can see his kid. It makes sense he didn't.
i liked Thea's character development after season 3...too bad writers couldn't figure out what to do with her anymore. Also I respect Willa's decision to leave the show, there is no point of staying if you are not bringing anything on the table
When are the Felicity haters going get it. Secrets are what have destroyed Oliver’s life. His fathers secrets, his mother’s secrets, his cheating with Sara got him on the boat and destroy his relationship with Laurel. His secrets with working with Malcolm and Ra’s. Many many more. Secrets are what destroy Oliver and she is trying to stop him from repeating these mistakes. Don’t keep secrets from the people you love.
I love how people are attacking Felicity and saying Thea should have granted her wisdom, yet seem to forget that him keeping this secret didn't keep William safe at all. Malcolm and Damien still found out about the kid so basically, Oliver fucked up his marriage for nothing. Lies dont protect anyone.
Please, please, please, in my opinion there is NO justifications for this stupid contrived story line. The only point of this story line is to build conflict between Oliver and Felicity to provide a reason for them to break up. Most of this story line can be debunked by applying basic knowledge from the characters of the show. Well until the writers start writing them OOC to try and give some sort of grounding to this horrible piece of crap story line. 1. Why blame Moira and not Samantha. She offered Samantha $2M not $1M (the show needs to watch episode 2x20 "Seeing Red" again) to lie to Oliver. Samantha DID NOT have to accept or agree to those terms but she did. 2. How does someone who lied to Oliver for 9 years and then lie to his face when he figures it out on his own get to DEMAND that he tell NO ONE or he can't see his child? Come on she's at fault not Oliver. But they can't use the word LAWYER in any of this or Marc's baby mama story line falls apart. 3. Read a comment were Felicity gets bubbly and might let it slip. Felicity has KEPT Oliver's secret for 4 years so no she doesn't get bubbly and spill secrets. How in the hell is someone going to over hear Oliver tell her if they are in a private area. I don't think he's going to announce it in a public area it would defeat the purpose of "secrecy". 4. Thea had a bonding moment with her brother but ALL of her advice was bogus. Thea is the same person who hated Moira and Oliver LYING to her so much that she let the family assets get taken away. She hated Oliver and Roy lying to her so much that she left with her sociopath dad. She is hardly the person they should have used to tell Oliver to continue to "LIE" and yes IT IS A LIE not "KEEPING A PROMISE"! Whenever you are looking at the woman you intend to marry and lying right to her face as you slip off to see your child in another city because you said you would tell "no one" including said fiance than yes you are a lying liar who lies..period!! 5. How is Felicity knowing MORE dangerous than Malcolm? Yes Malcolm the sociopath that Oliver just took the LoA from and cut off his hand, Malcolm who loudly and angrily told Oliver he would pay, yet in Oliver's CONCERN to keep William SAFE he TELLS NO ONE. So is his ridiculous "promise" STILL more important NOW than "telling" the people who could actually help keep William safe, hmmm? I would say NO seeing how the kid is kidnapped. Yes kidnapped from the knowledge Damien learned from Malcolm - you know that person who knew instead of Felicity and who told Oliver he had a debt to pay. The same person who told Oliver death was too easy a relief because he wants to see him suffer. Yeah ok by all means Oliver keep that "promise" even while doing so you are the one putting your child in danger! This story line just keeps getting dumber and dumber!! 6. When Thea says something like the life he lives as the "Green Arrow" put those around him who he loves in danger. Samantha DOESN'T KNOW he is the Green Arrow. The people who know he is the GREEN ARROW are the PEOPLE Samantha tells him CAN NOT tell are the same ones they BOTH will be RELYING ON to HELP them get the kid back. Oh the stupidity of this story line. It lacks ALL logic!! 7. Oliver is in a tough spot ONLY because the writers NEEDED and WANTED him in a tough spot for the kid drama. But when it came to the Nyssa and Malcolm situation which also put him in a tough spot the writers GAVE him a 3rd OPTION. Even had Oliver proclaim "he wouldn't stop looking for a 3rd option". But when it comes to keeping a "promise" or lying to his fiance (soon-to-be-wife) the choices are limited. They RESTRICTED his OPTIONS for the Samantha/William/Felicity situation because they DIDN'T want him to HAVE or USE any OPTION other than accepting what Samantha wanted. Why because they want the FALL-OUT, they NEEDED the FALL-OUT to get to their end result of breaking up Oliver and Felicity!. Also it convenient of the writers to let the audience know the episode before they have the kid taken how bad Oliver feels. That's crap they are once again trying to manipulate the audience while they attempt to justify this stupid story line that most people are rejecting. They use Thea as their mouthpiece and a teary eyed Oliver. So I'm guessing it took him what 8 whole episodes to realize he felt some guilt. Whatever I'm just glad when this contrived story line made up for BAD PLOT ONLY is over.
+Ann Mack 100% agree with u! and someone also posted this, pretty much what you already said & I agree : ''''Before Thea and her big mouth, which pretty much felt like a bit of character assassinaton for the sake of this storyline if you ask me. or at least OOC. Mostly because (If didn´t hit my head with the pavement and lost my memory) she left town bc Roy had lied to her “to keep her safe”… I was shaking my head at the writers so bad I thought I was going to break my neck. I mean it makes sense her PoV in one way: she was talking about William´s safety, if you consider that everyone in Oliver´s life is a target and blah blah blah… but then again… Oliver never told Thea that the kid was ALREADY in danger. It was completely nonesense that he didn´t mention the tiny detail that Malcolm, who swore revenge and is evil af, knows of William existence. That was the biggest plot hole ever.'' Amen.
Yes the storyline was dumb. Felicity should've found out about Samantha and Moira on her own and that should have been the secret that made Oliver fall out with his mom at the candidacy announcement. - Samantha had to agree to leave, if she didn't he probably never would have went on the boat and became the Green Arrow. He would probably want to do the right thing and stayed to support Samantha. - Moira should get some of the blame because she emotionally blackmailed a young girl in a very vunerable place. She did the same thing to Felicity, but some how Felicity garners sympathy, but Samantha doesn't gtfoh. - Thea has changed. She is older and now understands why secrets need to be kept sometimes. Remember, she spent months with Malcolm and she came back and lied to Oliver about her training with Merlyn. It does make sense that she would be more understanding about Oliver's situation. Lies are lies, but I don't actually believe Oliver would have went through with the wedding before telling Felicity because he does mention that he was trying to build trust between him and Samantha. - No one ever implied that Felicity knowing was more dangerous than Malcolm. I think it was more of a the least amount of people who know the better. - Samantha doesn't know he's the GA but she does know about his life as Oliver Queen because it's documented on the news. Everyone around Oliver has been killed, murdered, arrested, or hurt including Oliver himself. - They really didn't have to break up Felicity and Oliver over this, but they needed it to happen for Season 5 to work. The whole Billy Malone thing wouldn't have worked the same way had they not been broken up and the bunker scene in season 5 episode 20 just wasn't going to make sense. There is a reason why Season 4 is regarded as the worst season.
The only understanding woman is Thea in this whole team/family. Samantha shouldn’t have blackmailed Oliver and Felicity should’ve been more understanding about the whole situation.
@Micheal Judon and if Moira had married Malcolm merlyn Tommy would be the stepuncle of William. A stepuncle is the stepsibling of a parent or the sibling of a stepparent
What's sad his mother withheld his child from him. He didn't know he even had a child until this season . Barry only person he tells and he wanted to keep it that way to ptotect his son. However for some reason Malcom knew but Barry and Malcom don't really interact and I doubt Barry would ever tell anyone. Then Chase even knows which never made since to me.
@@Riskofrain527 I suspect Malcolm knew he had a kid before Oliver knew. Now that I think about it thier parents where close. Moira could the told Malcolm that Oliver has a kid but he can never know.
Thea encouraged Oliver to continue lying to woman he loves and is about marry about his son, That was lousy advice. Of course Thea was more understanding about his son then Felicity, Thea is his sister but Felicity is his partner in life. It was a bigger betrayal because he was going to marry her while he was keeping this life-changing secret from her instead of trusting that she would have never done anything to jeopardize his relationship with his son or his safety it's not an over reaction to want the man your going to spend the rest of your life with to be open and honest and trust you he could have told her told Felicity the truth Samantha never had to know, it was unfair of her to ask him to lie to Felicity (the woman he was going to marry) in the first place, everyone else but not Felicity.
I think you're right (about samantha being unfair) but I also think since she did, he should've taken it another way. He promised so I don't believe he should have told felicity, but I don't believe he should have lied about it either. The way i saw it, Oliver should have told her he promised to keep a secret and due to that he couldn't tell her. Her reaction may still be bad, but I think this would've been the correct way of going about it. (Keep his word, and don't lie to felicity)
quick solution, bring the mother and felicity down to the cave. to the mother: I'm the arrow and this is my wife to felicity: I'm a father. I'm pretty sure the mother wouldn't let him see his son again. but totally worth it
No a bstter solution is felicity understands that oliver couldn't tell her or he would never see his son again and obviously he would choose his son over her. Any girl that thinks that a guy should choose her over his son is an idiot sack of shit.
Am i the only one who thinks that laurel should be the one to be mad? I mean he got this girl preg when he was still dating her and felicity being mad at him for not telling her about william didn't really make sense it was just some more drama for the writers to add
I remember that I stop watching this show a few years ago and this is the episode that I stopped. Idk why. Now I have watched 7 seasons of the show and they are stopping it to season 8? Whyy..
Thea understands that Oliver is not the same guy he was before the five year change. He's changed into a hero and understands his situation of him and his son.
I understand that Felicity was angry and hurt because he broke her trust (it's been kind of a rocky relationship to begin with) but breaking of the engagement instead of at least attempting to work through it is just too ridiculous. However Samantha is such a bi**h for putting him in that position to begin with when he's making an effort to get to know his own child....the child should absolutely be protected from his fathers life (not that she knew that at the time) but that doesn't mean that they don't deserve to get to know each other. Every child deserved to know their parents (unless they are truly horrible people, then let them make that decision when they've grown up) but Oliver was just a reckless playboy when she knew him that doesn't really qualify as a horrible person, just as a spoilt brat
Ya know honestly life right here listen to one woman to get yelled at by another lol do right by one you oliver queen have failed this relationship plus side felicity is in a wheel chair and wont kick you off a rooftop
Feclity thought that Oliver should have told her about his son. No he did not have to to tell her any thing because it was not Oliver's choice not to tell anybody he was told to by that kids mom I don't know why feclity can't understand that
Keeping Green Arrow's son a secret to keep him safe. Fine I can get on board with that. Keeping a son away from his father because you disapprove of him is just feminist bullshit.
I like how she's evolved from being angry about Oliver lying to actually listening to his side and being understanding about his situation.
yeah and from what we see next week it looks like Laurel might be understanding aswell.
+Eric Church Could you imagine all of Oliver girlfriends including Nyssa and Sara all in the arrow cave. That would be 2 ex girlfriends, his league wife, his fiancé and his kid mother haha
connor watson that's every mans nightmare having his current girlfriend in a room with all his ex girlfriends lol
+Eric Church Yeah Right.
Matthew Allen jw are you saying yeah right cuz you agree with me or was that sarcasm im just asking cuz I can't really tell
WHEN YOUR BRATTY SISTER UNDERSTANDS YOUR SITUATION MORE THAN YOUR DAMN FIANCÉ
Rose Arnold sister grew up with your flaws she knows your weakness
Rose Arnold lol
Rose Arnold thank you I’m always gonna hate for felicity for that
I wouldn't call Thea "Bratty"
Tell me about it. Thea got better, though.
I love how Thea has grown, given the circumstances of the the duties and responsibilities of Team Arrow. She has went from fiery resentment from what could be considered as necessary lies, to realizing that with said occupations, there is a healthy and much needed level of secrecy for the safety of the ones you love. Thea gets it. Good Scene.
+Derrick Chandler sorry it's stupid scene & not 100% because of Thea, but because MALCOLM KNOWS about William & Felicity doesn't? I agree with this : ''Before Thea and her big mouth, which pretty much felt like a bit of character assassinaton for the sake of this storyline if you ask me. or at least OOC. Mostly because (If didn´t hit my head with the pavement and lost my memory) she left town bc Roy had lied to her “to keep her safe”… I was shaking my head at the writers so bad I thought I was going to break my neck. I mean it makes sense her PoV in one way: she was talking about William´s safety, if you consider that everyone in Oliver´s life is a target and blah blah blah… but then again… Oliver never told Thea that the kid was ALREADY in danger. It was completely nonesense that he didn´t mention the tiny detail that Malcolm, who swore revenge and is evil af, knows of William existence. That was the biggest plot hole ever.'' Amen. sorry but this scene bullshit
+Derrick Chandler honestly i disagree with what you see as development. Thea has had issues with lying since we met her. Moira lied to her, oliver lied to her and malcolm lied to her and used her. This scene was a disservice to her character. She knows what it feels like to be lied to by the people closest to you, so she should know what this will do to felicity when she finds out. Laurel would have made more sense to be honest. This story line makes no sense that's why it doesn't work. Samantha's reasons to make oliver lie, make no sense. She doesn't know oliver is the GA therefore she's not doing it to protect him, she's doing this because she's still pissed about what moira did to her.
Felicity can keep a secret. Besides if oliver was not planning on taking her aways from her or anything. I can understand why he would think its the right thing to do since he wants to see his son, but lying to your significant other its still wrong. And felicity will most likely dump him. This storyline is terribly written, if the writers at least made samantha's reasons to make oliver lie even remotely logical, then it would be more bearable.
Derrick Chandler pretty sure it's called maturing over from like 20-25
I love how people are attacking Felicity and saying Thea should have granted her wisdom, yet seem to forget that him keeping this secret didn't keep William safe at all. Malcolm and Damien still found out about the kid so basically, Oliver fucked up his marriage for nothing. Lies dont protect anyone.
Man I don't know. Ever since season 3, there are some times when I thought that Thea was more mature than Oliver
Thea was way more reasonable than Felicity about this.
Ninja Dust Publishing righttttttttt
@@alisonarrowood8217 she basically dumps Oliver cause He was sending his son somewhere safe while she acts like she has a word where he can go or not? okay totally more reasonable than Thea-
I don't believe Felicity was unreasonable at all. The fact of the matter is that there was a period of time between when Oliver determined for sure that William was his kid and when Samantha gave him her ultimatum during which he should have told Felicity. Ending the relationship was the best possible thing she could have done for herself at that time, because one cannot possibly hope to sustain a long term relationship when there is such a clear and blatant lack of trust, and ending it when she did saved her the pain and heartache of when it eventually fell apart on it's own anyway. Also, had you been paying attention you would have noticed that once Felicity came to an understanding about the real reason for Oliver's apparent lack of trust in her, she was willing to accept where she herself had done wrong in regards to their relationship and began to take the necessary steps on her end to repair it.
Ari lack of trust? So when felicity lies to him yall don’t bat an eyelash but when Oliver does it to keep his son safe and to have a relationship y’all want to demonize him. Smh
True, but you also gotta give felicity some slack since shes INTO oliver and he has a child. Not really easy to take in
Thea has had the greatest character arc on this show and it sucks that Willa wants to leave and Thea is on the back burner at the moment plot-wise
I love that she actually understands him and doesn’t just get mad at him for literally no reason, unlike someone
Who? Genuinely asking because no one actually gets mad at him after having the full story, not even Felicity. She’s upset, because Oliver lied, and she does understand why he did it, but it doesn’t make it hurt less, especially because Oliver’s first instinct is to hide the truth from the people he loves, even when he really doesn’t want to. It’s a sign of this huge problem in their relationship, so how can Felicity agree to marry him when he not only kept something so big from her, but also continues to lie and keep secrets from her?
Oliver: I am your father!
William: Cool!
DJZ39 too bad it doesn't go that way
I like that 😂😂😂
Derry it probably would've been like this if Prometheus didn't exist.
😂😂😂
Oliver: I am your father!
William: Cool!
Luke Skywalker:NOOOOOoooooOOOOOoooOOOOoooo...
Felicity could of used some of this wisdom
Exactly considering that she passed on this kinda thing to her mom about lance and also she wasn't the only 1 who didn't know about Oliver's son(diggle and laurel).
Jarrod Watson Yes, it was right coming from someone who rejected her mother and brother when she learned that they had hidden her who was her father.... BS
Jarrod Watson
Jarrod Watson, I KNOW, RIGHT!!!?!?!?!
@@jujumpe7374 its called character growth dummy
Thea always stands by Oliver and has the most level headed reaction to his secrets being revealed. Best Arrow character!
See this is how felicity should have reacted to Oliver having a son
K H thank you
The difference is that Felicity was gonna marry Oliver, and he was keeping this big secret from her. She understood the position he was in with Samantha, she understands that Oliver wanted to tell her, but it doesn’t make it hurt less. As Oliver here said, him keeping the secret, regardless of if he’s keeping a promise, doesn’t make this any more right
And this is why Thea is queen in our eyes, not just the "best gurl"
Well she is a Queen too. 😂❤
2:15 the whole theme of season 5
Void Kumar, unfortunately, it's true. Simply because many people close to him, (with the exception of William) decided to get involved in his crusade.
The Empire 27 yeah that's why at first he didn't want to tell anyone since he didn't want them getting hurt
This is Thea. Thea is understanding about Oliver's situation. Be a Thea and NOT a Felicity.
He's so heartbroken about keeping this secret from Felicity he's in a hard place
Here is the thing... Oliver isn't keeping HIS own secret.. it's the mom's secret. And as a dad, it's his responsibility.
Here's the thing, William wasn't a secret to anyone that Samantha knew. She chose to make him a secret for Oliver and everyone he knew. I don't think you know what actually constitutes a "secret".
This is what I love about Thea she’s really come a long way from the delinquent rich girl from season one and a responsible young woman.
And he was just a billionaire playboy.
Poor Oliver... He wants to tell Felicity, but if he does, he can't *see* William, his *only child*. Plus, we saw how Felicity took it in the timeline where he found out that same day, so why would it ever be a good idea to tell her?
She took it badly because she found it out on her own and she realized Oliver would never have told her. And given she has been keeping the secrets she knows about him for years now, why should Oliver think she couldn't keep this one? Samamtha would never find out he'd told her unless one of them blabbed, and both of them would do their best to not let that happen.
Tom Hazell Yeah, I guess he could just tell Felicity behind Samantha's back. I think he would have done that, though, in time. In the original timeline, she definitely made the wrong decision by calling him out on the secret then.
Honestly, the whole plot line only existed as a contrivance for them to break up, which is kind of shown by how they used literally the worst person in the entire show to advice Oliver to keep secrets from his loved ones, since the first three seasons of Thea's story line has been about how how Oliver's, Moira's and Malcolm's lies have screwed up her life and relationships with them.
Tom Hazell Yeah, but I still like to see Thea do something that season. I was just bored by her in 4.
Joseph Simpson thank you
"That was brutal" even Thea seems to Understand where Felicity doesn't which makes me hate her character more like seriously.
Some Random same here
@Troy Goldberg no, she wasn't a step parent. He was hardly a parent himself to the child. You only become a step parent if you want to become that and the parent is alright with that. Many relationships and marriages make it pretty clear that person is not parenting the child. Some people don't want to be a parent or a step parent. Of course later on SPOILERS she was indeed a parent to William and enjoyed that role.
I love how people are attacking Felicity and saying Thea should have granted her wisdom, yet seem to forget that him keeping this secret didn't keep William safe at all. Malcolm and Damien still found out about the kid so basically, Oliver fucked up his marriage for nothing. Lies dont protect anyone.
@@hadrianhexe9603 I’m glad someone sees it like I do....
@Math GeekT125
Except that, Thea was the immature one here. Nobody hides his child from the person you want to spend the rest of their life with.
Oliver was going to make Felicity a stepmother without her consent, nobody does that. You have to give a choice to you companion. That's how it works.
Honesty is the first quality for a happy marriage!
Still dont get how felicity gets the right to be piss off over this, the mother of the child said no to telling anyone, and that's the end of that, no one else gets a say, not even oli, not after how he and his mother acted before he was born
Thank you after that I hated felicity for that
Bullshit. He didn't do anything to Samantha when he found out she was pregnant. He freaked out and told his mother, and Moira treated Samantha poorly, but Samantha also knew that Oliver had nothing to do with his mother offering her that check. Blackmailing the father of your child is disgusting, and I don't understand why so many fans are willing to let Samantha off the hook.
I understand why felicity would be mad becaue oliver could have told her and the mother would never no simple and pluss malcom, thea already knew so how it is fair they knew before felicity knew that's the problem with oliver he always lies to the one who cares about him
KageNoTenshi Oliver did Nothing bad to her where he didn’t deserve to see his child. Oliver does have parental rights to his child so Samantha shouldn’t to be able to dictate who Oliver can and can’t tell by threatening to keep William away from it. Of course this is a super hero show so their not gonna take the time to show Oliver can take her to court and get visitation but just because your a mother you are not the only person who can control who sees your child.
KageNoTenshi thank you
Imagine, for a moment, the turn of events had it been FELICITY in Thea's chair. If Felicity had been the one to research it, put two and two together and be so damn understanding...
I loved scenes like this and miss Thea so much. Thea still best girl for me on Arrow
Love how much she understands Oliver siblings goal Thea is the best
I loved this conversation. There is no correct way to react after revealing a so-called lie or secret. I don't like Felicity's reactions, but I'm staying neautral because there is not a final answer on how to react. But I think it's great that Thea found out. Thea is William's aunt, and they are connected by blood.
And that is btw the reason I don't understand why Malcolm revealed the secret to Damien Darhk about William. Malcolm is Thea's father, and Thea is William's aunt. Malcolm should care for Thea's sake, and Thea' care about William because of Oliver.
Obviously felicity was wrong for acting that way. She was a bitch. The right thing to do would be to take oliver's side.
Seriously? Malcolm drugged Thea and used her to murder Sara. The only thing you need to understand is that Malcolm was demented.
@@TiLoRaine Let me bring to your attention that my previous comment seems to be at least 4 years old 😆
@@martej.r.2310 Let me bring to your attention... for as long as your comment is there, everyone is free to respond when they run into it.
@@TiLoRaine Yes, of course, I dont mind my old comments - its entertaining thinking back that TH-cam excisted 4 years ago and that time goes by fast 😄 It feels like a lifetime ago! Do you want me to delete my comment? 😆
Someone recently answered my comment on a yt-video. We both found it funny when she/he figured out my comment was 6 years old and "a little" out of date😜😆😆
2:58 Andy did a bit of Diggling on the dark web ;)
Say that 3 times fast
Their scenes together always melt my heart. And you always remember she is his half sister and that still means nothing to everyone. ❤
I love how understanding Thea was finding out. I can see why Felicity was mad, but she should have understood that it was his child, and that your children should always come first no matter what or who comes in the way. I love Felicity but she was being selfish.
Felicity was being selfish, when Oliver is the one who chose to lie to her? There's many things that he could have chosen to tell her, that still would have been the truth, but he went for inventing a lie instead. He insulted and disrespected her in one fell swoop.
@@TiLoRaine But he was forced to lie to her. I didn't understand before either why Oliver didn't tell Felicity. But now I understand this is not about Felicity, but about the son of Oliver. He is the most important person to Oliver more than Felicity.
@@user-qg8eu6dj7q He was not forced to lie to her. He chose to lie to her. Being forced would be something like, being forced to make a phone call while the person is holding a gun to your head. As you can clearly see, that isn't what happened. So can the rhetoric. If a man or a woman are any kind of decent human being, their kids better be more important to them, than anyone else is to them... but again, that has NOTHING to do with what happened here. What happened here was terrible writing, coupled with zero logic.
@@TiLoRaine It's right . This is a bad scenario. But Felicity behaved horribly towards Oliver. It wasn't his fault that Samantha had given him that condition. As I wrote earlier the speech about Oliver's son.
@@user-qg8eu6dj7q No, but it is Oliver's fault that he abided by it. Felicity didn't treat Oliver badly. Oliver treated Felicity badly and in turn, allowed Samantha to treat both he and Felicity badly. Felicity isn't the villain in this story.
I LOVE THEA, I used to hate her but she’s so mature it just makes me love her sm
I agree with Thea & Samantha, but sadly William still got captured by Darhk.
Denise Dixon So, Thea was wrong. At the end of season 2 and the beginning of season 3, she has strong words against lies. She knew that secret never stays hidden by her experience. She wasn't the best person to give some advice to Oliver about secrets
Denise Dixon cause of theas dad malcom freaking Merlyn the biggest snake ever
Yeah that’s true
Honestly with Oliver's campaign, someone was going to dig out this secret at some point.
@@Unversed333how would they have even known about the check
Thea was always the best character ever. I miss this show so much.
This shows how much Thea has changed. She was so annoying in season 1.
Ikr
She probably cut away all her immaturity when she cut her hair
She was immature here. She didn't know what meant being married. What real adult hides his child from his future spouse ?
The only people who are against Felicity for this are people who don't know anything about marriage!
@@jujumpe7374 @Juju Mpe 1. She listened his side of the story and tried to put herself in his situation
2. He's the green arrow so the more people knew, the more William would be at risk
3. Unlike Thea, felicity first thought is to judge Oliver. If you want to talk about the meaning of marriage, then you should take in consideration that felicity didn't even let Oliver explain (at least in the erased timeline 4x08). Part of marriage is communicating with your partner and felicity failed at that part as well. So they are both at fault. But as Thea stated, the MOTHER of his son TOLD him to not tell anyone about William otherwise he would never be able to see his son. What kind of father would risk the chance of seeing his son
4. And since Oliver can't lie otherwise he's evil and the worst in the world, let's look back at 4x01. During a conversation between them, Oliver realised that felicity was working with team arrow behind his back and Oliver tried his best to understand her situation.
@@carl_yeung
She couldn't understand his situation, because the only kind of marriage she knew was the one where people cheat on each other...
Her mother was cheating on her father with their best friend, her biological father was cheating on his wife with her mother, and her father was cheating on his wife!
Not really a marriage where people trust each other!
@@carl_yeung
Unlike Thea's biological father Malcolm, what kind of threat Felicity was for William ? Besides, Oliver didn't tell Felicity and William ended up being kidnapped (before that, Oliver knew that Malcolm knew)!
This is why Thea is my favourite character
at least thea is an aunt !! lol
Still one of my fav scenes
Thea being a brat to becoming understanding
I miss thea. 😥❤️
Brutal is right! This was a disservice for women who are single mothers by making her bitter and vindictive. It was a shame that she made Oliver keep him a secret from his family. It must’ve been a relief to share with Thea and would’ve been even better if he could’ve shared with Felicity. This is going to blow up in his face.
It's sad that felicity had to be a piece of shit about it. It's even sadder that people like felicity.
@@Riskofrain527 It's sad that you would say such an idiotic thing. It's even sadder that your parents have to live with knowing what they brought into the world. :(
The thing is he could have easily told Felicity and they could've kept THAT secret together, but instead he's going to keep that secret with Thea, of all people. Oliver's baby-mama and having a kid is the BIGGEST plot hole ever which is saying something considering the entire Arrow show is riddled with plot holes.
+Elena Casale You watch the flash? Cuz they hinted alot in flash s1 about william.. Its not really a plothole. This entire conversation shows how oliver gets more humane and softer every year. UNTILL THE DARKNESS [spoiler] takes him back to his lian-yu self on march 23
he didn't tell thea. thea found out on her own.
+Nicholas Haughton That does'nt change the fact that she knew. And Malcom knew too. So, what was the point of not telling to Felicity ?
Guess who also didnt know laurel and diggle but when they did find out they understood why oliver didn't tell them.
Tyler Rice Oliver wasn't about to marry Diggle and Laurel. That's a big difference.
family over everything
when thea is the most understanding character
felicity gets outraged twice both involving william
iris by identity and noras betrayal and barry sends her back
thea find out oliver is the hood even though he killed ~ thank you she's the most understanding character
gawd i miss Thea
Aqua's words of wisdom lol
To be fair. I'm on Samantha's side in this argument. The fewer people know about William the better for everyone, especially William. And anyone having a go at Oliver for it needs to wake up.
Couldn't they have just had Oliver find out about William and then, I don't know, not made it yet another hurdle for 'Olicity' to tackle? Couldn't it just have been an interesting addition to the plot that allowed us to see how Oliver had to grow and change to become a father? The show could have explored the difficulties with opening up his heart to love his child when he's already lost so much of his family. This was a great plot point on its own. It didn't need to become melodrama.
Rainy Day thanks
Yeah that’s so true
Of course they could, but they needed to stall the relationship because they were going on past S5... they just unfortunately chose to do it in a pathetic way, that only served to feed the Felicity/Olicity hater trolls.
You know, people in this fandom keep shitting on season 4 everywhere I go. But whenever I watch a random scene on TH-cam, it doesn't seem so bad.
Why is the actress who plays Thea so cute
oliver: william, I am your father (in darth vadors voice)
He is in a bad place and he hates him self for keeping the secrect from felicity but he has no choice and it's the best thing for William to keep him safe 😢😢😢 heartbreaking as it is #poor oliver# # felicitys feelings# #poor olicity#
+Grainne Molloy disagree. Oliver is not doing it to keep him safe but to be able to see him. Oliver does not know damian knows he's his son. Samantha does not know oliver is the arrow. What the writers try to tell you in this scene, is that its okay to lie whether the circumstances. The idiotic thing is that Oliver knows Malcolm found out, and he practically threatened him, how is it possible that his life and the others lives are in danger and he thinks its still a good idea to lie? This story line makes no sense and its a disservice to Oliver's growth and even thea's development.
him as in william his son
+Natalia Rdz true you make a good point no its not okay to lie but in olivers situation it is okay to lie and even if williams mother was okay with William and everyone knowing that oliver is his father it would be a risk for her and william it would put a target on their backs them both being apart of the green arrows life\ olivers life
+Natalia Rdz true you make a good point no its not okay to lie but in olivers situation it is okay to lie and even if williams mother was okay with William and everyone knowing that oliver is his father it would be a risk for her and william it would put a target on their backs them both being apart of the green arrows life\ olivers life
Grainne Molloy for her to make sense he would have keep it a secret from the public not his family. He can still see him the way he has and felicity and the team would know. That's why she makes no sense, the writers make no sense, this story line makes no sense. I get oliver feels terrible but when felicity finds out, she will have every right to be pissed and hurt. Also wtf? Malcolm, he's practically his nemesis, he knows!!!!!! Now his son's life is in danger how can he still stay still and lie? This is why its a mess honestly. Also how can we connect with a boy who has been seen in literally one episode? The writers screwed up big time, there's a million ways this could have been handled better, even the lie.
I didnt think that Thea would agree to not telling people who matter to Oliver about his son. Wasn't Thea the one to be mad at Moria and Oliver about keeping a secret about her father. I get that they want a fall out for olicity but using Thea hmm. I also think Thea is his kryptonite anything involving Thea and Oliver ends up bad like Oliver got drugged with vertigo because of Thea, Oliver losing the company because he worry about Thea. Malcolm figure that out and use Thea for his bidding and resulting in Oliver getting stab.. now sensing a pattern fall out with Felicity and who knows what else smh
I think the worst part about Felicity finding out is that it happened through Damien Darkh, and because of the situation with William being kidnapped, she and Oliver didn't have time to talk things out when it was revealed to her.
This shows how Thea has grown and evolved she went from getting mad at her brother for lying to listening and trying to understand where he coming from … now that is character development
I can SO imagine on south park them doing a skit or whatever with a Canadian Green Arrow :)
It's not a lie? it's JUST a promise that he is keeping to the mother of his child? WTF totally nonsense. I don't think this shows any kind of evolution on thea except for the fact that now she is more understandable to Oliver. But what the hell making a promise to his child's mother make it right to lie to his fiance. He even says that himself, it's not right. Period. And the :"keeping William as a secret is keeping him safe" doesn't even makes sense, what bad could cause if Felicity knew about his son?! she has proven that she know how to keep a fucking secret, she would've understand.
Ingryd Bianca dude why does felicity have the right to know cause she is his fiancé yeah sure oliver tells felicity then what noting changes it doesn’t make any difference my friend doesn’t tell his wife anything especially important parts of his life to his wife there’s nothing we can do and his wife is probably keeping a secret from him aswell and Robert and Moira did it too each other
Okay. What I don't understand is that samantha is calling a playboy and that he needs to hide and keep his son a secret from everyone that loves him. She doesn't know him, he hasn't been a playboy since the day got on the island. He was never the same doesn't she watch the news at all.
Oliver teary eyed,from the strong wordings from baby sis Thea.Moving.
Thea in this thumbnail looks beautiful…just an observation
I was with Oliver, he did tell Felicity straight away the first time and she broke up with him and everyone died. Added with the fact that Samantha asked him to keep it a secret with the condition of if he does he can see his kid. It makes sense he didn't.
i liked Thea's character development after season 3...too bad writers couldn't figure out what to do with her anymore.
Also I respect Willa's decision to leave the show, there is no point of staying if you are not bringing anything on the table
0:05, 0:06, 0:07, 0:14, 0:15, 0:16, 0:17, 1:14, 1:22, 1:23, 1:24, 1:25, 1:31, 1:32, 1:33, 1:34, 1:35, 1:36, 1:50, 1:51, 1:52, 1:53, 1:54, 2:00, 2:01, 2:12, 2:13, 2:34, 2:50, 2:57, 2:58, 3:08, 3:11, 3:12
If my aunt was Thea it would be so cool
When are the Felicity haters going get it. Secrets are what have destroyed Oliver’s life.
His fathers secrets, his mother’s secrets, his cheating with Sara got him on the boat and destroy his relationship with Laurel. His secrets with working with Malcolm and Ra’s. Many many more. Secrets are what destroy Oliver and she is trying to stop him from repeating these mistakes. Don’t keep secrets from the people you love.
Queen Fire But it didn’t destroy his relationships with those people. They forgave him and moved on
Of course she not the one marrying him with a secret son, she’s his sister.
I love how people are attacking Felicity and saying Thea should have granted her wisdom, yet seem to forget that him keeping this secret didn't keep William safe at all. Malcolm and Damien still found out about the kid so basically, Oliver fucked up his marriage for nothing. Lies dont protect anyone.
*I miss Thea...*
I must admit that Thea have change alot over the seasons. The Thea in the first two season got on my last nerve
darhk takes william and tells oliver so now oliver has to tell felicity and i'm scared bc she wasn't wearing her engagement ring in the limo scene
+Miguel Lanzanas Good eye for detail.
Although William isn't likely the one in the grave, unless Felicity developed an extremely close bond with him.
+HyperPhoenix09 Here's why Damien Darhk has a code of honor never to hurt a family even through that's his enemy's family one of the same.
***** True.
HyperPhoenix09 Darhk will just break his daughter's heart right that would change everything.
Thea will never stop being one of the best people in all of the dc universe
Please, please, please, in my opinion there is NO justifications for this stupid contrived story line. The only point of this story line is to build conflict between Oliver and Felicity to provide a reason for them to break up. Most of this story line can be debunked by applying basic knowledge from the characters of the show. Well until the writers start writing them OOC to try and give some sort of grounding to this horrible piece of crap story line.
1. Why blame Moira and not Samantha. She offered Samantha $2M not $1M (the show needs to watch episode 2x20 "Seeing Red" again) to lie to Oliver. Samantha DID NOT have to accept or agree to those terms but she did.
2. How does someone who lied to Oliver for 9 years and then lie to his face when he figures it out on his own get to DEMAND that he tell NO ONE or he can't see his child? Come on she's at fault not Oliver. But they can't use the word LAWYER in any of this or Marc's baby mama story line falls apart.
3. Read a comment were Felicity gets bubbly and might let it slip. Felicity has KEPT Oliver's secret for 4 years so no she doesn't get bubbly and spill secrets. How in the hell is someone going to over hear Oliver tell her if they are in a private area. I don't think he's going to announce it in a public area it would defeat the purpose of "secrecy".
4. Thea had a bonding moment with her brother but ALL of her advice was bogus. Thea is the same person who hated Moira and Oliver LYING to her so much that she let the family assets get taken away. She hated Oliver and Roy lying to her so much that she left with her sociopath dad. She is hardly the person they should have used to tell Oliver to continue to "LIE" and yes IT IS A LIE not "KEEPING A PROMISE"! Whenever you are looking at the woman you intend to marry and lying right to her face as you slip off to see your child in another city because you said you would tell "no one" including said fiance than yes you are a lying liar who lies..period!!
5. How is Felicity knowing MORE dangerous than Malcolm? Yes Malcolm the sociopath that Oliver just took the LoA from and cut off his hand, Malcolm who loudly and angrily told Oliver he would pay, yet in Oliver's CONCERN to keep William SAFE he TELLS NO ONE. So is his ridiculous "promise" STILL more important NOW than "telling" the people who could actually help keep William safe, hmmm? I would say NO seeing how the kid is kidnapped. Yes kidnapped from the knowledge Damien learned from Malcolm - you know that person who knew instead of Felicity and who told Oliver he had a debt to pay. The same person who told Oliver death was too easy a relief because he wants to see him suffer. Yeah ok by all means Oliver keep that "promise" even while doing so you are the one putting your child in danger! This story line just keeps getting dumber and dumber!!
6. When Thea says something like the life he lives as the "Green Arrow" put those around him who he loves in danger. Samantha DOESN'T KNOW he is the Green Arrow. The people who know he is the GREEN ARROW are the PEOPLE Samantha tells him CAN NOT tell are the same ones they BOTH will be RELYING ON to HELP them get the kid back. Oh the stupidity of this story line. It lacks ALL logic!!
7. Oliver is in a tough spot ONLY because the writers NEEDED and WANTED him in a tough spot for the kid drama. But when it came to the Nyssa and Malcolm situation which also put him in a tough spot the writers GAVE him a 3rd OPTION. Even had Oliver proclaim "he wouldn't stop looking for a 3rd option". But when it comes to keeping a "promise" or lying to his fiance (soon-to-be-wife) the choices are limited. They RESTRICTED his OPTIONS for the Samantha/William/Felicity situation because they DIDN'T want him to HAVE or USE any OPTION other than accepting what Samantha wanted. Why because they want the FALL-OUT, they NEEDED the FALL-OUT to get to their end result of breaking up Oliver and Felicity!.
Also it convenient of the writers to let the audience know the episode before they have the kid taken how bad Oliver feels. That's crap they are once again trying to manipulate the audience while they attempt to justify this stupid story line that most people are rejecting. They use Thea as their mouthpiece and a teary eyed Oliver. So I'm guessing it took him what 8 whole episodes to realize he felt some guilt. Whatever I'm just glad when this contrived story line made up for BAD PLOT ONLY is over.
+Ann Mack 100% agree with u! and someone also posted this, pretty much what you already said & I agree : ''''Before Thea and her big mouth, which pretty much felt like a bit of character assassinaton for the sake of this storyline if you ask me. or at least OOC. Mostly because (If didn´t hit my head with the pavement and lost my memory) she left town bc Roy had lied to her “to keep her safe”… I was shaking my head at the writers so bad I thought I was going to break my neck. I mean it makes sense her PoV in one way: she was talking about William´s safety, if you consider that everyone in Oliver´s life is a target and blah blah blah… but then again… Oliver never told Thea that the kid was ALREADY in danger. It was completely nonesense that he didn´t mention the tiny detail that Malcolm, who swore revenge and is evil af, knows of William existence. That was the biggest plot hole ever.'' Amen.
Ann Mack man shut up about telling felicity is the right thing trust me it would not end well either way
Yes the storyline was dumb. Felicity should've found out about Samantha and Moira on her own and that should have been the secret that made Oliver fall out with his mom at the candidacy announcement.
- Samantha had to agree to leave, if she didn't he probably never would have went on the boat and became the Green Arrow. He would probably want to do the right thing and stayed to support Samantha.
- Moira should get some of the blame because she emotionally blackmailed a young girl in a very vunerable place. She did the same thing to Felicity, but some how Felicity garners sympathy, but Samantha doesn't gtfoh.
- Thea has changed. She is older and now understands why secrets need to be kept sometimes. Remember, she spent months with Malcolm and she came back and lied to Oliver about her training with Merlyn. It does make sense that she would be more understanding about Oliver's situation. Lies are lies, but I don't actually believe Oliver would have went through with the wedding before telling Felicity because he does mention that he was trying to build trust between him and Samantha.
- No one ever implied that Felicity knowing was more dangerous than Malcolm. I think it was more of a the least amount of people who know the better.
- Samantha doesn't know he's the GA but she does know about his life as Oliver Queen because it's documented on the news. Everyone around Oliver has been killed, murdered, arrested, or hurt including Oliver himself.
- They really didn't have to break up Felicity and Oliver over this, but they needed it to happen for Season 5 to work. The whole Billy Malone thing wouldn't have worked the same way had they not been broken up and the bunker scene in season 5 episode 20 just wasn't going to make sense. There is a reason why Season 4 is regarded as the worst season.
Watching this scene makes em love Thea wayyyy more.
The only understanding woman is Thea in this whole team/family. Samantha shouldn’t have blackmailed Oliver and Felicity should’ve been more understanding about the whole situation.
2:32 technically a half-aunt. A half-uncle is the half-sibling of a parent
@Micheal Judon i know. I was just noting a techincality
@Micheal Judon in season 2 it was revealed they're actually half-siblings
@Micheal Judon and if Moira had married Malcolm merlyn Tommy would be the stepuncle of William. A stepuncle is the stepsibling of a parent or the sibling of a stepparent
I love Oliver but he told everyone about William besides Felicity ,
she too had a right to know the truth 🥺
Well he couldn't considering he was forced to keep the secret or he won't see his son again
What's sad his mother withheld his child from him. He didn't know he even had a child until this season . Barry only person he tells and he wanted to keep it that way to ptotect his son. However for some reason Malcom knew but Barry and Malcom don't really interact and I doubt Barry would ever tell anyone. Then Chase even knows which never made since to me.
Chase and malcolm finding put where william was made sense. Oliver could've found william if he wanted to, but like chase said he never tried.
@@Riskofrain527 I suspect Malcolm knew he had a kid before Oliver knew. Now that I think about it thier parents where close. Moira could the told Malcolm that Oliver has a kid but he can never know.
I love Thea
Thea looks good
Thea encouraged Oliver to continue lying to woman he loves and is about marry about his son, That was lousy advice.
Of course Thea was more understanding about his son then Felicity, Thea is his sister but Felicity is his partner in life. It was a bigger betrayal because he was going to marry her while he was keeping this life-changing secret from her instead of trusting that she would have never done anything to jeopardize his relationship with his son or his safety it's not an over reaction to want the man your going to spend the rest of your life with to be open and honest and trust you he could have told her told Felicity the truth Samantha never had to know, it was unfair of her to ask him to lie to Felicity (the woman he was going to marry) in the first place, everyone else but not Felicity.
I think you're right (about samantha being unfair) but I also think since she did, he should've taken it another way. He promised so I don't believe he should have told felicity, but I don't believe he should have lied about it either. The way i saw it, Oliver should have told her he promised to keep a secret and due to that he couldn't tell her. Her reaction may still be bad, but I think this would've been the correct way of going about it. (Keep his word, and don't lie to felicity)
One of many things thay made the show shit. Oliver becoming a family man, having a son, Felicity. All made it go to shit after season 2.
Thank you everyone is like Oliver is right or felicity is right and I am just like what the fuck has this show become
quick solution, bring the mother and felicity down to the cave.
to the mother: I'm the arrow and this is my wife
to felicity: I'm a father.
I'm pretty sure the mother wouldn't let him see his son again. but totally worth it
No a bstter solution is felicity understands that oliver couldn't tell her or he would never see his son again and obviously he would choose his son over her. Any girl that thinks that a guy should choose her over his son is an idiot sack of shit.
Thea:😯
Thea is such a cutie sis material
and thus all reason to like or sympathise with Felicity is killed for me.
Thea is a great sister and an understanding person.
damn i miss arrow
Am i the only one who thinks that laurel should be the one to be mad? I mean he got this girl preg when he was still dating her and felicity being mad at him for not telling her about william didn't really make sense it was just some more drama for the writers to add
I remember that I stop watching this show a few years ago and this is the episode that I stopped. Idk why. Now I have watched 7 seasons of the show and they are stopping it to season 8? Whyy..
Thea understands that Oliver is not the same guy he was before the five year change. He's changed into a hero and understands his situation of him and his son.
I understand that Felicity was angry and hurt because he broke her trust (it's been kind of a rocky relationship to begin with) but breaking of the engagement instead of at least attempting to work through it is just too ridiculous. However Samantha is such a bi**h for putting him in that position to begin with when he's making an effort to get to know his own child....the child should absolutely be protected from his fathers life (not that she knew that at the time) but that doesn't mean that they don't deserve to get to know each other. Every child deserved to know their parents (unless they are truly horrible people, then let them make that decision when they've grown up) but Oliver was just a reckless playboy when she knew him that doesn't really qualify as a horrible person, just as a spoilt brat
Dig was doing digging online
wait im confused i thought felicity found out a long time ago during the vandal savage crossover
She did. Then everyone died and Barry reset time.
Thea is way more understanding than anyone else.
Ya know honestly life right here listen to one woman to get yelled at by another lol do right by one you oliver queen have failed this relationship plus side felicity is in a wheel chair and wont kick you off a rooftop
Feclity thought that Oliver should have told her about his son. No he did not have to to tell her any thing because it was not Oliver's choice not to tell anybody he was told to by that kids mom I don't know why feclity can't understand that
I wish Felicity had this monologue instead of Thea. Olicity could have gone so much better.
damn Oliver a secret well I would keep that secret too
Keeping Green Arrow's son a secret to keep him safe. Fine I can get on board with that. Keeping a son away from his father because you disapprove of him is just feminist bullshit.
Thea was more mature than Felicity
This one of my favorite shows after family guy
same lol *:)*
Ender Hero I Like Season 1,2, And 5, Every Other Season Espicially This One Suckd
I just wish felicity were as clever and wisdom as thea.. Not to burst out like an asshole
If Moira had married Malcolm Tommy would be the stepuncle of William. A stepuncle is the stepsibling of a parent or the sibling of a stepparent
Wow !!!!
What, Oliver doesn't Tell Thea that William is Gay? But they knew before he was born that he was Gay!
I love olithea relationship best bro forever ever 💕💕💘💘💘💘