Believe it or not Muay Thai guys are actually able to do this all the time when they get their legs caught, minus the "neck snapping." All of the people in the video can't do it properly because just like anything else it require practice. You do have to be relatively quick but most of the time your opponent isn't going to even step backwards before you can close the distance. The hop requires a bit of leg strength but you can make it easier by pulling them towards you if their grip is that strong enough. When you do close the distance you would want to stomp your leg to the ground to break their grip and go into a clinch from there. But you can definitely reach the head and neck that's not unrealistic at all, I've done it a bunch of times. There are a lot of things you can do if your legs gets caught and it sort of depends how it happens and how quick you are. If they just have you by the ankle with one hand like in the video it's usually good enough just to snake your leg out of their grip. The "hop forward" technique is more useful for when they have a deep and tight grip on your leg. The most impractical thing about this Kung Fu technique is actually being able use enough force to damage their neck.
@@indefenceofthetraditionalma I see what you're talking about now. I didn't notice the second round of videos in the "can we improve..." section at first but yes you did try to show something similar to what I'm talking about. So that's my bad. Things to note though, if they are just grabbing you by the ankle it's almost always going to be easier to pull the leg out than fall forward. If your foot is in their stomach or chest, it's even just better to push off of them like you're teeping them at close range. You only need to hop forward if they have a good hold on your shin. Some people showcased this move a little better than others, I think the guy in the white short and shirts had it right.
@@indefenceofthetraditionalma I guess that serves me right for trying to be diplomatic. Your intuition is off, I've been training for over a decade and I competed several times under MT rules. And you?
_"Avengers..."_ And just left us hanging, never said Assemble. I Will Never forget that. Great Video. Taekwondo, we still haven't trained getting our legs caught. I'm sure i said b4, i had to learn how to deal with that in Muay Thai.
Sounds strange but TKD doesn't explain how to deal against a leg grab. Muay Thai and savate are the only techniques that explains that in their basic training.
@@antoniostrina82 Yea.. They talk about a bit in Monkey, but it's not of regular occurrence in most martial arts like kickboxing. You'd think.. throw a lot of kicks? What if you can't kick? Our school trains in BJJ and Boxing alongside TKD. That's kind of our answer. Monkey is close to the ground so it worries more about its arms getting grabbed. A lot of grabbing in Monkey, but it's a Hit & Run style. Always ready to escape. That's kind of it's answer for leg grabs.
"Modern" TKD likely does not, but I can say that I did learn it 30 years ago. If you're not fighting and expecting grabs or dealing with "self defence" scenarios it's likely not getting taught. Just because you haven't learned it, doesn't mean it hasn't been taught often or not.
@ In this channel, we saw various smart TKD guys who were able to escape from a leg catch or don't fall to the ground after a sweep but, unfortunately, looks like the main attitude is not teaching what to do after a leg catch, and this is can be seen in the large amount of videos and sites on Internet that are largely concentrated on attack kicks instead of kick to the legs, sweeps, side steps, the already mentioned escape from a leg catch. Savate and Muay Thai teach that as a regular training in a sports environment despite it isn't a self-defence situation. Anyway, I admit that kung fu and karate don't teach that (especially karate, for my personal experience).
@@Seven-not-Six I think that there's an old legend around kicking that is hard to die even nowadays. "Your kick can be grabbed" "kicks are easy to catch" "kicks don't work in a real fight, they are for sports only" "you can get a low blow", the most common I heard. My replies today are "even punches can be grabbed, specially if you find someone who rushes over you" "punches are more likely cross countered than kicks because everyone can punch but hardly regular people are able to kick" "is easily to break your hand but hard to break your leg". Many practitioners/masters don't realise how many times they fall in an inconvenient situation when they punch. They're blind on punches but widely open eyes on kicks.
I caught someone's leg, and he kicked my head with a side spin tornado kick. He is a Tao Lu Kung Fu athlete, and I was the shuai jiao person. I still remember till this day. Wrestler does not always win in a fight
Kung Fu forms and MMA are like 2 sides of the same coin. Like a language we need to translate from one to another so we could beat each... I mean communicate 😅
What's funny is just seeing the technique before seeing your guys test it, I immediately know how this could be much better. If someone _scoops_ your round kick holding it to their body you can jump into it, putting your weight over your caught leg and tearing their arm down to escape, and that immediately puts you in good range for a clinch. In fact I've gotten the clinch while in the air before the weight ripped my leg out of the arm before. I've done this while jumping to avoid getting swept after I was caught, it works really well. But I wouldn't try that if my leg was disconnected from their body or if they were holding the leg with their hands, those two factors make it difficult to have any control over your momentum and balance. They have too much control. And neck twisting simply does not work, you cannot snap a neck like that, that's bad movie choreo. That that master couldn't tell how ridiculous how he's doing it is or doesn't know how much control his opponent has or how rare it is to catch a kick with open palms really shows how little actual sparring or fighting experience he has. It feels like watching an amateur make a basic chess mistake and getting fool's mated.
(Before I watched) Ayyy can't wait to watch the video till the end! Thank you for letting us participate! 🔥🔥🔥 After I watched: This was so cool! Avengers asemble! 🙏thank you Jerry and the rest of the gang🎉
@FightCommentary so the red shirt grappler is Armando (Mendy) ju-jitsu Brown Belt, the white rash guard dude is Josip (Papak) Ju-Jitsu Green Belt but we were missing 2 core Geeks Members that day, Marko our bjj Bluebelt and Orsat Karate black belt and pro mma fighter 🙏
@@FightCommentary Unfortunately not, I just practised by myself and started with bodybuilding. I had to choose because I had not enough money to pay for two gyms. Back in the day, I bought books in order to learn from other martial arts (I hated karate due to my master's behaviour), and I'm using Internet to learn more. Now I think I'm too old (almost 43) to come back in a martial art gym, especially because I don't know what MA to choose and I'm not sure about the masters.
I think "kung fu" is a book that describes "don't do that and that". If you know kung fu really well, you will find that there are no "invincible moves" in real situation. However some "kung fu master" thinks they are invincible without any real situation trainings. This is the problem in kung fu technique nowadays. This wisdom is also wrote in our wing chun quote: "並無絕招" (there is no invincible / 100% works technique)
Thank you, those "masters" really painted a bad picture of kung fu to me. I'm glad ite's teaching actually has common sense in its roots, that it's just the instructors being cocky.. they really became the reason kung fu lost its wonder for me.
You can make this technique work, but requires a lot of the stuff discussed in the improvement section. When i did muay thai my go to when i had my leg grabbed was to grab their head in order to stay up, maybe land a few punches. Otherwise i did enziguri or a rollout. We drilled this in wrestling the other week and i instinctively did what the wrestler in this video did too.
I personally do agree with you for the average person. I think it would be better to ask someone who does Wushu (Taolu) and Wushu (Sanda). It makes more sense to ask a Kungfu or Wushu person who has leg flexibility (like in passive flexibility as if doing Taiji) or has Yoga flexibility who does not rely on bending their knees. Also, getting two people with the same height. I assume you know that Wushu athletes can reach their chin to their toes without bending their knees, they are so flexible. So, I thought it would make sense to ask a real Kung Fu person to match this. Since the old clip is a Kungfu clip, you should ask someone who does Kungfu with a higher flexibility, also finding someone with that person's physique might make somewhat of a difference. Ask someone who specializes in this type of discipline who has an open minded who is not too stuck in the traditional mindset. I mean if you are really curious, you can go to China and also ask other people about this.
@@ZhangQing3344 he ask a tai chi guy (me), a wing chun guy (Tomo), and two sanda guys. Did you watch the clip we used? It was a guy with way less flexibility than any of us had. Not that flexibility comes into why this is an awful technique
@@indefenceofthetraditionalma I did watch it. I mean it would make more sense to find someone with the same type of discipline in that type of art. When I meant Taiji (Taichi) I am assuming the modern Wushu athletes doing Taichi because they are so flexible. I believe that your Taichi is good if he asked you, but I was thinking of a modern Taichi athlete that focuses on Wushu when it came to mobility. It is just that, I was thinking that people kept bending their knees due to flexibility limitations. I thought flexibility might make a slight difference, yet I personally don't think this technique would work in an unchoreographed fight. When people are flexible, their legs may seem to appear shorter because their reach is better. This is what I was thinking. Due to the hamstrings and hips, ETC. Yet, I still don't think this escape move is realistic anyways. I don't know if you understand what I am saying. I just thought that being more flexible (supreme flexible like crazy Yoga) might make somewhat of a difference. Yet, like he stated the move would not work in a real situation. But, I do agree this is not a great technique. I agree with you.
@@indefenceofthetraditionalma I see what you mean. I just thought that being flexible makes it easier for escapes in general. Like head to toe reach is easier meaning grabbing like in this video would happen. But, I see what you are saying. That’s why I did not really have an opinion on this.
Im inclined to agree with you here... this video has assembled people who don't have any background in any art even similar to the original clip and so it's hardly surprising the've been unable to make it work... with only a few mins working on it, and from a predisposition towards criticising and mocking it, and a general lack of understanding of the fact that the move in question from the old clip is BEING DEMONSTRATED not performed in anger... it takes no account of the idea that the kick that has been caught should come with forward momentum, pushing through, and so the reach is not an issue because the movement pushing in to the opponent more than puts the arms in reach. If the kick were to land also it would have the effect of sending the opponent's head forward and so more in range. The technique, if taken at face value from the clip, also implies that its application is such should the kick is not get caught properly, instead almost functioning as a way of drawing the hands down and thus exposing the head. And they all miss the fact that the left hand is also grabbing onto the hair on the back of the head when ripping the head backwards. Many kung fu style utilise grabbing, gripping, gouging, ripping and tearing as part of their efficacy, with potential for causing serious damage when trained well, and this is not even talked about briefly here. It just seems like this video has chosen not to ask someone who might actually be able to suggest what is really implied by what is demonstrated in the original clip. But... this is also pretty typical of martial arts trolls and know-it-alls, so also par for the course I guess.
I've seen an instructional by Randy Couture on defending a single leg where he grabs around the head. But, it's not the ankle which was caught and he also moved in closer so they ended up just holding his knee. So that's why he's close enough to be able to crab them.
I think the "mistake" in the original video, is that the explanation was something the demonstrator basically made up. Remember that by the time that those documentaries were being made in China, kung fu in China had long been empty form practice in the form of (diluted) wushu and then maybe SanDa. The way similar actions from other forms that have a front kick followed by hand techniques, the hand techniques are for when the kick misses, or you have completed the kick and the foot is setting down. If you're following body mechanics, it might not even be a kick because the same body mechanics apply when you're just stepping too.
Regarding how to apply a standing neck crank I would recommend taking a look at the Grovit technique from catch wrestling. There is one very well explained with Billy Robinson called "grovit wrestling front face lock".
Neck cranks hurt forever, so be careful when you use them. I have a permenant injury from one in training. Cross face neck crank is against the rules in wrestling and Judo/BJJ for good reason. The decades of their abcense has created some flaws in the grapplers mindset, leaving many MMA sport trained fighters wide open to them when they go for takedowns and seek underhooks. Be aware of the risks. I want to take an oppertunity here to explore part of the "slow motion sparring" flaw with this. Combat techniques run in a sequence from practice and the counter move is generally not the thing a fighter is doing at the same time. But in sparring speed and slow motion we get to do the counter move instantly. I will bring this too the OP example later, but I want to start with a neck crank example to make it clear. When a grappler ducks low for a takedown or tackle, they have fully commited to it and their arms are going low to hug the torso or grapple the limb and their head is wide open(in general). When a neck crank scoops up their head under the chin, they can not change directions too reverse and stand back up like they do in slow speed sparring and their own body weight drops fast and adds to the crank, and the weakest link fails. The weakest link is most often deep tissue under the collarbones connecting the head to the scapula or inside the ribs, a crippling injury that happens before they can react. If the wrestler has a strong neck and stays connected the crank can turn their whole torso, which generally defeats the advantage of the takedown. The impact with the floor with a head twisted around in a crank is no better. But in sparring speed or slower, it seems like we can shake our head free of a crank or contract the muscle fast enough to prevent the whole thing. But you can not do both! You can duck fast AND slow down and retreat at the same time.... I liked the cranking examples in the second half of this video. Cool stuff.... OK, so for this Kung Fu "kick caught so switch to clinch" theory, it can only have a chance to succed if the kicker is already going to do a leg pull down motion as part of the kick follow up. If they kick and rekick or try to set their kick leg down behind themselves they are caught and it will be too late to try this counter move. The twisting escape is best for most kickers because it fits the after motion of their kick pattern. In the same way, when a fighter catches a kick they too are not planning on the follow up, generally fully focused on the catch itself. There we find that slight pause in action, the "O$hit, I really caught it!" moment. But there are great examples of pros shown here on this channel of catching a leg straight into a hip throw, or walking backward into a drag, and the natural thing is for most of us is to hold leg into arm pit and punch with other hand. So it is in that natural fighter pause that the kicker gets to do a counter too. Really great examples from the Avenger teams! In WT wing chun, there is only a front Thrust Kick with an immidiate pull down into a foot stomp or knee kick, and the WT will be doing a Posture Pulling Step after a kicking leg meets the floor, with the knee striking the enemy's knee. (There are side kicks and slant kicks too, but they convert to thrust kick on contact if closing in) So when a WT thrust kick is grabbed the leg is already pulling down and bending at the knee and the WT fighter should already be moving forward and their hands already reaching for a neck pulling hand with punch. In practice this usually jerks free of any leg catch since it is so fast and stronger than their fingers. WT has a clinch entry much like this OP method, converting a caught kick into a knee toward belly, pulling the foot back to the butt and thrusting with the hips, but it only has a chance at working because the WT is already shorting the distance and using that knee this way to begin leg jamming. In the OP examples the kicker always kicks from a static standing leg, forcing their kicking leg to remain fully exended. So it connects back to the idea that we must already be doing it anyway, or it will be too late to do it. The Posture Pulling Step is a unique method to the Leung Ting Wing Tsun system in modern times, but it comes from classical Chinese Kung Fu. I think many of these difficult methods from Kung Fu are lost over time due to various reasons, either kept as secret for only the advanced special few, or simply never mastered and evenutally thought to be worthless and no longer passed on. In the OP video, they are still doing classical applications from the ancient forms, but they no longer seem to understand when to do it nor how it must work mechanically.
Nice catch Jerry. I'm so used to watching movies, it looked feasible to me 😂. But ya its like trying to loosen a lug nut with straight arms with your shoulders level to the wheel
It’s amazing how we all get tricked by the magic of the suspension of disbelief when we watch anything on a screen! We could do a whole series on those martial arts shows that aired in the early 2000s on the cable shows.
I will have to watch this, 0:22-0:27 i saw good form and power behind those moves. But yes that technique is absolutely terrible. Bruce lee did summersault, wrestlers will enzuigiri. Mortal kombat scorpion vs subzero, scorpions leg was caught and he just did a spinning back kick. These are the logic moves. I would do kung fu backfist.
Apparently, before the cultural revolution and period attempts to 'sanitize' kung fu and make it more... should I say refined? The term 'shadowboxing' was used to describe certain schools. This makes me think, perhaps some kung fu systems weren't made for combat in the first place, more likely a system of solo exercise that people tried to give some combative role...
Can you do videos on trying to find applications for Chinese Martial Arts forms techniques? Trying to make some of the Dog Boxing techniques work would be fun.
QED, people. Always test anything purported. Always look for proof. Always have people demonstrate a claim. You always gotta find a way out of Plato's Cave
Yeah, I remember a long time ago in high school I tried to do that Bruce Lee or "movie" type kick where the guy is holding my leg, then I jump up to kick him with my other leg. I ended up falling and was lucky I didn't break my hip bone.
I bet Krav Maga or Japanese Jiu Jitsu have a technique. I'm thinking some way of getting the legs around the neck. TKD would possibly use a scissor kick to the head with the opposite foot.
TH-cam doesnt say so for some reason. Yet another reason that creators have trouble with youtube’s backend. Even if a viewer isn’t a public subscriber, the creator should know. One day, it’ll all be fixed. Thanks for being a subscriber!
Forms are the downfall of Kung Fu. The RIDICULOUS attacks and defences taught in forms..You would never face in a real fight. Teaching Kung Fu forms and not real fighting, is a scam to make students keep coming in and paying money.
I disagree, forms all have practical applications and most of the forms are actually grappling techniques. I’m on the US Sanda national team and a lot of the wrestling throws and takedowns we do look exactly like freestyle wrestling or judo, but are actually the practical application of Kung fu forms. The problem is people who don’t practice the practical application It would be like doing a boxercise class but never sparring. Forms are very useful for conditioning and understanding the feel of the technique or the “internal method” if you will.
@@Jaredthegrappl3r 95% of forms have you practicing unrealistic attacks and defences you would NEVER face in a real fight. You are delusional confusing the small fraction of practical techniques with the majority of ridiculous and unrealistic bull shito moves. Forms are nothing more than a money making scam, to make the gullible students keep coming in and paying so called master money.
@@Jaredthegrappl3r What you are doing is thinking the 5% practical techniques in the forms are the same as 95% ridiculously UNREALISTIC attacks and defences in the forms.
@ what you are doing is thinking the 95% of people who don’t know the applications is the same as the 5% who do. Forms are exaggerated textbook versions of techniques to preserve their practice The textbook version of a sprawl is rarely ever done in a fight, and to the untrained person looks more like a burpee or maybe a seal stretch. The textbook version of a wrestling shot looks like some ridiculous kind of primal movement as opposed to actually being a practical way of closing distance in a wrestling match if you don’t understand the application What you’re doing is not realizing the application and looking at a funny looking movement Most throws or takedowns or stand up grappling maneuvers if done in the air will look ridiculous. The stances are not ridiculous stances, they are usually grappling techniques
Thank you for featuring me in the video. I’m the handsome black guy in the video with Ryan 🫸🏾🤛🏾
Very cool! Glad to have you! We will definitely have you back soon! Everyone, please follow Jared!
is that famous tiktok influencer jared the grappler?
@ They know me as introductory level TH-camr Jaredthegrappl3r around these parts
@@Jaredthegrappl3r maybe with another fcb avengers assemble youll be famous youtuber jared the grappler
thanks for having us on the channel jerry! I'm Ryan the Sanda national champion in the yellow in the video
I will have to take turns pinning everyone’s comments. Though you are linked so guess i’ll pin jared for now 😎
@@FightCommentary lol just keep jareds up you featured me in a diff video
Great video. So happy to have been a part of it 🙏🏻
You're the best!
Believe it or not Muay Thai guys are actually able to do this all the time when they get their legs caught, minus the "neck snapping." All of the people in the video can't do it properly because just like anything else it require practice. You do have to be relatively quick but most of the time your opponent isn't going to even step backwards before you can close the distance. The hop requires a bit of leg strength but you can make it easier by pulling them towards you if their grip is that strong enough. When you do close the distance you would want to stomp your leg to the ground to break their grip and go into a clinch from there. But you can definitely reach the head and neck that's not unrealistic at all, I've done it a bunch of times. There are a lot of things you can do if your legs gets caught and it sort of depends how it happens and how quick you are. If they just have you by the ankle with one hand like in the video it's usually good enough just to snake your leg out of their grip. The "hop forward" technique is more useful for when they have a deep and tight grip on your leg. The most impractical thing about this Kung Fu technique is actually being able use enough force to damage their neck.
Send us a video and get in one of these soon!
@@Egg_of_the_King erm, I don’t think you watched the video. We all used techniques shown in Thai boxing.
@@indefenceofthetraditionalma I see what you're talking about now. I didn't notice the second round of videos in the "can we improve..." section at first but yes you did try to show something similar to what I'm talking about. So that's my bad. Things to note though, if they are just grabbing you by the ankle it's almost always going to be easier to pull the leg out than fall forward. If your foot is in their stomach or chest, it's even just better to push off of them like you're teeping them at close range. You only need to hop forward if they have a good hold on your shin. Some people showcased this move a little better than others, I think the guy in the white short and shirts had it right.
@@Egg_of_the_King I don’t think you’ve had much fight experiences you appear not to have dealt with leg grabs in live settings
@@indefenceofthetraditionalma I guess that serves me right for trying to be diplomatic. Your intuition is off, I've been training for over a decade and I competed several times under MT rules. And you?
_"Avengers..."_
And just left us hanging, never said Assemble. I Will Never forget that.
Great Video. Taekwondo, we still haven't trained getting our legs caught. I'm sure i said b4, i had to learn how to deal with that in Muay Thai.
Sounds strange but TKD doesn't explain how to deal against a leg grab. Muay Thai and savate are the only techniques that explains that in their basic training.
@@antoniostrina82 Yea.. They talk about a bit in Monkey, but it's not of regular occurrence in most martial arts like kickboxing.
You'd think.. throw a lot of kicks? What if you can't kick? Our school trains in BJJ and Boxing alongside TKD. That's kind of our answer.
Monkey is close to the ground so it worries more about its arms getting grabbed. A lot of grabbing in Monkey, but it's a Hit & Run style. Always ready to escape. That's kind of it's answer for leg grabs.
"Modern" TKD likely does not, but I can say that I did learn it 30 years ago. If you're not fighting and expecting grabs or dealing with "self defence" scenarios it's likely not getting taught. Just because you haven't learned it, doesn't mean it hasn't been taught often or not.
@
In this channel, we saw various smart TKD guys who were able to escape from a leg catch or don't fall to the ground after a sweep but, unfortunately, looks like the main attitude is not teaching what to do after a leg catch, and this is can be seen in the large amount of videos and sites on Internet that are largely concentrated on attack kicks instead of kick to the legs, sweeps, side steps, the already mentioned escape from a leg catch.
Savate and Muay Thai teach that as a regular training in a sports environment despite it isn't a self-defence situation.
Anyway, I admit that kung fu and karate don't teach that (especially karate, for my personal experience).
@@Seven-not-Six
I think that there's an old legend around kicking that is hard to die even nowadays.
"Your kick can be grabbed" "kicks are easy to catch" "kicks don't work in a real fight, they are for sports only" "you can get a low blow", the most common I heard.
My replies today are "even punches can be grabbed, specially if you find someone who rushes over you" "punches are more likely cross countered than kicks because everyone can punch but hardly regular people are able to kick" "is easily to break your hand but hard to break your leg".
Many practitioners/masters don't realise how many times they fall in an inconvenient situation when they punch. They're blind on punches but widely open eyes on kicks.
I caught someone's leg, and he kicked my head with a side spin tornado kick. He is a Tao Lu Kung Fu athlete, and I was the shuai jiao person. I still remember till this day. Wrestler does not always win in a fight
Kung Fu forms and MMA are like 2 sides of the same coin. Like a language we need to translate from one to another so we could beat each... I mean communicate 😅
What's funny is just seeing the technique before seeing your guys test it, I immediately know how this could be much better. If someone _scoops_ your round kick holding it to their body you can jump into it, putting your weight over your caught leg and tearing their arm down to escape, and that immediately puts you in good range for a clinch. In fact I've gotten the clinch while in the air before the weight ripped my leg out of the arm before. I've done this while jumping to avoid getting swept after I was caught, it works really well. But I wouldn't try that if my leg was disconnected from their body or if they were holding the leg with their hands, those two factors make it difficult to have any control over your momentum and balance. They have too much control. And neck twisting simply does not work, you cannot snap a neck like that, that's bad movie choreo.
That that master couldn't tell how ridiculous how he's doing it is or doesn't know how much control his opponent has or how rare it is to catch a kick with open palms really shows how little actual sparring or fighting experience he has. It feels like watching an amateur make a basic chess mistake and getting fool's mated.
Love the chess analogy! Thanks for watching the “Avenger’s team” dissect the the technique. Want to get in one in the future?
Quality content, great to see Jared and Ryan getting the exposure they need love the content🙏🙏🙏
(Before I watched) Ayyy can't wait to watch the video till the end! Thank you for letting us participate! 🔥🔥🔥
After I watched: This was so cool! Avengers asemble! 🙏thank you Jerry and the rest of the gang🎉
What were the people’s names on your team?
@FightCommentary so the red shirt grappler is Armando (Mendy) ju-jitsu Brown Belt, the white rash guard dude is Josip (Papak) Ju-Jitsu Green Belt but we were missing 2 core Geeks Members that day, Marko our bjj Bluebelt and Orsat Karate black belt and pro mma fighter 🙏
9:45
I used that move to free myself from a leg catch but my former Shotokan master said that that wasn't karate. Sigh.
Did you pick up other arts after that?
@@FightCommentary
Unfortunately not, I just practised by myself and started with bodybuilding. I had to choose because I had not enough money to pay for two gyms. Back in the day, I bought books in order to learn from other martial arts (I hated karate due to my master's behaviour), and I'm using Internet to learn more. Now I think I'm too old (almost 43) to come back in a martial art gym, especially because I don't know what MA to choose and I'm not sure about the masters.
@@antoniostrina82 I took up a new art at 43 and I am 2 years in getting slammed and pinned. You can do it, just slower and smarter.
@
Thank you, fella!
woahhh that intro animation rules!! who did that?
Ben. He’s been on the channel before. I’ll show you if you haven’t seen it!
@@FightCommentary that'd be great! props to ben 😁👍
@@lubao4276 Ben is the cohost in this video: th-cam.com/video/nz-kU1X0Q2I/w-d-xo.html He's an animator by day
I think "kung fu" is a book that describes "don't do that and that". If you know kung fu really well, you will find that there are no "invincible moves" in real situation. However some "kung fu master" thinks they are invincible without any real situation trainings. This is the problem in kung fu technique nowadays.
This wisdom is also wrote in our wing chun quote: "並無絕招" (there is no invincible / 100% works technique)
Thank you, those "masters" really painted a bad picture of kung fu to me. I'm glad ite's teaching actually has common sense in its roots, that it's just the instructors being cocky.. they really became the reason kung fu lost its wonder for me.
As a kung fu guy I can confidently say that we have many high level techniques and even more low level fighters. This technique aint it though.
Joaquin Buckley, in a UFC match, got his leg caught and performed a flying spinning kick, knocking his opponent clean out.
This one was so silly it didn't even need to be tested.
I hope you recover soon Jerry
You can make this technique work, but requires a lot of the stuff discussed in the improvement section.
When i did muay thai my go to when i had my leg grabbed was to grab their head in order to stay up, maybe land a few punches. Otherwise i did enziguri or a rollout.
We drilled this in wrestling the other week and i instinctively did what the wrestler in this video did too.
Old school Kungfu movies are very entertaining 😅
Get better soon. I remember when I first started binging your videos around 2019 when I had a realy bad fever so thanks for getting me through that
Thanks for sharing that!
I personally do agree with you for the average person. I think it would be better to ask someone who does Wushu (Taolu) and Wushu (Sanda).
It makes more sense to ask a Kungfu or Wushu person who has leg flexibility (like in passive flexibility as if doing Taiji) or has Yoga flexibility who does not rely on bending their knees.
Also, getting two people with the same height.
I assume you know that Wushu athletes can reach their chin to their toes without bending their knees, they are so flexible. So, I thought it would make sense to ask a real Kung Fu person to match this. Since the old clip is a Kungfu clip, you should ask someone who does Kungfu with a higher flexibility, also finding someone with that person's physique might make somewhat of a difference.
Ask someone who specializes in this type of discipline who has an open minded who is not too stuck in the traditional mindset.
I mean if you are really curious, you can go to China and also ask other people about this.
@@ZhangQing3344 he ask a tai chi guy (me), a wing chun guy (Tomo), and two sanda guys.
Did you watch the clip we used? It was a guy with way less flexibility than any of us had.
Not that flexibility comes into why this is an awful technique
@@indefenceofthetraditionalma I did watch it. I mean it would make more sense to find someone with the same type of discipline in that type of art. When I meant Taiji (Taichi) I am assuming the modern Wushu athletes doing Taichi because they are so flexible.
I believe that your Taichi is good if he asked you, but I was thinking of a modern Taichi athlete that focuses on Wushu when it came to mobility.
It is just that, I was thinking that people kept bending their knees due to flexibility limitations. I thought flexibility might make a slight difference, yet I personally don't think this technique would work in an unchoreographed fight.
When people are flexible, their legs may seem to appear shorter because their reach is better. This is what I was thinking.
Due to the hamstrings and hips, ETC.
Yet, I still don't think this escape move is realistic anyways.
I don't know if you understand what I am saying.
I just thought that being more flexible (supreme flexible like crazy Yoga) might make somewhat of a difference. Yet, like he stated the move would not work in a real situation.
But, I do agree this is not a great technique. I agree with you.
@ if you keep your knee straight, you’re going to be in for a bad day no matter what your flexibility is like
@@indefenceofthetraditionalma I see what you mean. I just thought that being flexible makes it easier for escapes in general. Like head to toe reach is easier meaning grabbing like in this video would happen. But, I see what you are saying. That’s why I did not really have an opinion on this.
Im inclined to agree with you here... this video has assembled people who don't have any background in any art even similar to the original clip and so it's hardly surprising the've been unable to make it work... with only a few mins working on it, and from a predisposition towards criticising and mocking it, and a general lack of understanding of the fact that the move in question from the old clip is BEING DEMONSTRATED not performed in anger... it takes no account of the idea that the kick that has been caught should come with forward momentum, pushing through, and so the reach is not an issue because the movement pushing in to the opponent more than puts the arms in reach. If the kick were to land also it would have the effect of sending the opponent's head forward and so more in range. The technique, if taken at face value from the clip, also implies that its application is such should the kick is not get caught properly, instead almost functioning as a way of drawing the hands down and thus exposing the head. And they all miss the fact that the left hand is also grabbing onto the hair on the back of the head when ripping the head backwards. Many kung fu style utilise grabbing, gripping, gouging, ripping and tearing as part of their efficacy, with potential for causing serious damage when trained well, and this is not even talked about briefly here. It just seems like this video has chosen not to ask someone who might actually be able to suggest what is really implied by what is demonstrated in the original clip. But... this is also pretty typical of martial arts trolls and know-it-alls, so also par for the course I guess.
The leg escape they do is called limp legging. When they turn and twist their leg out. It's in Wrestling, and Muay Thai.
I've seen an instructional by Randy Couture on defending a single leg where he grabs around the head. But, it's not the ankle which was caught and he also moved in closer so they ended up just holding his knee. So that's why he's close enough to be able to crab them.
I think the "mistake" in the original video, is that the explanation was something the demonstrator basically made up.
Remember that by the time that those documentaries were being made in China, kung fu in China had long been empty form practice in the form of (diluted) wushu and then maybe SanDa.
The way similar actions from other forms that have a front kick followed by hand techniques, the hand techniques are for when the kick misses, or you have completed the kick and the foot is setting down.
If you're following body mechanics, it might not even be a kick because the same body mechanics apply when you're just stepping too.
Regarding how to apply a standing neck crank I would recommend taking a look at the Grovit technique from catch wrestling. There is one very well explained with Billy Robinson called "grovit wrestling front face lock".
I love the animated intro 😂, ever think of doing an updated one? 😊
Good idea, I’ll give it a go!
Imagine waking up ao early and wearing sport outfit to go into a Park to learn a fake technique 😅
Love your channel. Keep it up. If you can do a commentary of Tommy Caruthers.
Neck cranks hurt forever, so be careful when you use them. I have a permenant injury from one in training. Cross face neck crank is against the rules in wrestling and Judo/BJJ for good reason. The decades of their abcense has created some flaws in the grapplers mindset, leaving many MMA sport trained fighters wide open to them when they go for takedowns and seek underhooks. Be aware of the risks.
I want to take an oppertunity here to explore part of the "slow motion sparring" flaw with this. Combat techniques run in a sequence from practice and the counter move is generally not the thing a fighter is doing at the same time. But in sparring speed and slow motion we get to do the counter move instantly. I will bring this too the OP example later, but I want to start with a neck crank example to make it clear. When a grappler ducks low for a takedown or tackle, they have fully commited to it and their arms are going low to hug the torso or grapple the limb and their head is wide open(in general). When a neck crank scoops up their head under the chin, they can not change directions too reverse and stand back up like they do in slow speed sparring and their own body weight drops fast and adds to the crank, and the weakest link fails. The weakest link is most often deep tissue under the collarbones connecting the head to the scapula or inside the ribs, a crippling injury that happens before they can react. If the wrestler has a strong neck and stays connected the crank can turn their whole torso, which generally defeats the advantage of the takedown. The impact with the floor with a head twisted around in a crank is no better. But in sparring speed or slower, it seems like we can shake our head free of a crank or contract the muscle fast enough to prevent the whole thing. But you can not do both! You can duck fast AND slow down and retreat at the same time....
I liked the cranking examples in the second half of this video. Cool stuff....
OK, so for this Kung Fu "kick caught so switch to clinch" theory, it can only have a chance to succed if the kicker is already going to do a leg pull down motion as part of the kick follow up. If they kick and rekick or try to set their kick leg down behind themselves they are caught and it will be too late to try this counter move. The twisting escape is best for most kickers because it fits the after motion of their kick pattern. In the same way, when a fighter catches a kick they too are not planning on the follow up, generally fully focused on the catch itself. There we find that slight pause in action, the "O$hit, I really caught it!" moment. But there are great examples of pros shown here on this channel of catching a leg straight into a hip throw, or walking backward into a drag, and the natural thing is for most of us is to hold leg into arm pit and punch with other hand. So it is in that natural fighter pause that the kicker gets to do a counter too.
Really great examples from the Avenger teams!
In WT wing chun, there is only a front Thrust Kick with an immidiate pull down into a foot stomp or knee kick, and the WT will be doing a Posture Pulling Step after a kicking leg meets the floor, with the knee striking the enemy's knee. (There are side kicks and slant kicks too, but they convert to thrust kick on contact if closing in) So when a WT thrust kick is grabbed the leg is already pulling down and bending at the knee and the WT fighter should already be moving forward and their hands already reaching for a neck pulling hand with punch. In practice this usually jerks free of any leg catch since it is so fast and stronger than their fingers. WT has a clinch entry much like this OP method, converting a caught kick into a knee toward belly, pulling the foot back to the butt and thrusting with the hips, but it only has a chance at working because the WT is already shorting the distance and using that knee this way to begin leg jamming. In the OP examples the kicker always kicks from a static standing leg, forcing their kicking leg to remain fully exended.
So it connects back to the idea that we must already be doing it anyway, or it will be too late to do it.
The Posture Pulling Step is a unique method to the Leung Ting Wing Tsun system in modern times, but it comes from classical Chinese Kung Fu. I think many of these difficult methods from Kung Fu are lost over time due to various reasons, either kept as secret for only the advanced special few, or simply never mastered and evenutally thought to be worthless and no longer passed on. In the OP video, they are still doing classical applications from the ancient forms, but they no longer seem to understand when to do it nor how it must work mechanically.
Nice catch Jerry. I'm so used to watching movies, it looked feasible to me 😂. But ya its like trying to loosen a lug nut with straight arms with your shoulders level to the wheel
It’s amazing how we all get tricked by the magic of the suspension of disbelief when we watch anything on a screen! We could do a whole series on those martial arts shows that aired in the early 2000s on the cable shows.
@FightCommentary great idea👍
I will have to watch this, 0:22-0:27 i saw good form and power behind those moves. But yes that technique is absolutely terrible. Bruce lee did summersault, wrestlers will enzuigiri. Mortal kombat scorpion vs subzero, scorpions leg was caught and he just did a spinning back kick. These are the logic moves. I would do kung fu backfist.
Apparently, before the cultural revolution and period attempts to 'sanitize' kung fu and make it more... should I say refined? The term 'shadowboxing' was used to describe certain schools. This makes me think, perhaps some kung fu systems weren't made for combat in the first place, more likely a system of solo exercise that people tried to give some combative role...
I've done the Enzuguri when a kid caught my kick we both ended up being winded after hitting the concrete and decided the fight wasn't worth it 😂
Can you do videos on trying to find applications for Chinese Martial Arts forms techniques? Trying to make some of the Dog Boxing techniques work would be fun.
Dog boxing would be fun!
QED, people. Always test anything purported. Always look for proof. Always have people demonstrate a claim. You always gotta find a way out of Plato's Cave
Did u see the bit with the head removal in it? That's wots questionable.
Yeah, I remember a long time ago in high school I tried to do that Bruce Lee or "movie" type kick where the guy is holding my leg, then I jump up to kick him with my other leg. I ended up falling and was lucky I didn't break my hip bone.
Ouch!
Have used this technique many times and yes it works well for me . Being tall with long reach and having trained it till it was natural
I don’t think you have used it unless it was against a mannequin
I bet Krav Maga or Japanese Jiu Jitsu have a technique. I'm thinking some way of getting the legs around the neck. TKD would possibly use a scissor kick to the head with the opposite foot.
Don't do enzuigiri kicks. WWE warned to not try this.
That is an exceedingly silly technique.
That mic... Looks like Don King going down... to China Town
So far Only Mantis kung fu is working because not fancy moves just a lot of pressure😅
We will definitely feature more mantis kungfu!
Nice animated intro.
Thanks for the visit
@@FightCommentary
Visit? I'm a subscriber! Ahahah
TH-cam doesnt say so for some reason. Yet another reason that creators have trouble with youtube’s backend. Even if a viewer isn’t a public subscriber, the creator should know. One day, it’ll all be fixed. Thanks for being a subscriber!
@
No worries 😉
everybody knows, get your leg caught, do the flash kick like in "no retreat, no surrender". th-cam.com/video/EQjTYoZ7Ok8/w-d-xo.html
yeah never will work....one thing is know the forms,other is know how extract that to real fight.
I could do it
Show us please!
Forms are the downfall of Kung Fu. The RIDICULOUS attacks and defences taught in forms..You would never face in a real fight. Teaching Kung Fu forms and not real fighting, is a scam to make students keep coming in and paying money.
I disagree, forms all have practical applications and most of the forms are actually grappling techniques. I’m on the US Sanda national team and a lot of the wrestling throws and takedowns we do look exactly like freestyle wrestling or judo, but are actually the practical application of Kung fu forms. The problem is people who don’t practice the practical application
It would be like doing a boxercise class but never sparring.
Forms are very useful for conditioning and understanding the feel of the technique or the “internal method” if you will.
@@Jaredthegrappl3r 95% of forms have you practicing unrealistic attacks and defences you would NEVER face in a real fight.
You are delusional confusing the small fraction of practical techniques with the majority of ridiculous and unrealistic bull shito moves. Forms are nothing more than a money making scam, to make the gullible students keep coming in and paying so called master money.
That's a misunderstanding of the form
@@Jaredthegrappl3r What you are doing is thinking the 5% practical techniques in the forms are the same as 95% ridiculously UNREALISTIC attacks and defences in the forms.
@ what you are doing is thinking the 95% of people who don’t know the applications is the same as the 5% who do. Forms are exaggerated textbook versions of techniques to preserve their practice
The textbook version of a sprawl is rarely ever done in a fight, and to the untrained person looks more like a burpee or maybe a seal stretch. The textbook version of a wrestling shot looks like some ridiculous kind of primal movement as opposed to actually being a practical way of closing distance in a wrestling match if you don’t understand the application
What you’re doing is not realizing the application and looking at a funny looking movement
Most throws or takedowns or stand up grappling maneuvers if done in the air will look ridiculous. The stances are not ridiculous stances, they are usually grappling techniques