We would have had to lift the rock up by pulling if it wasn't for the Z2R - we've come so far in our outdoor testing! 20% off Z2Rs until December 18th!
My trust in gear goes up with every episode, even though we're seeing things break. The insane measures you had to take to damage an old auto belay under worst case conditions with gratuitous overloading just goes to show how amazingly safe these are. Thank you for your gear fear breaking services.
Perfect Descent uses a centrifugal clutch style device, looks like a drum break activated by the spin. Trueblue uses an eddy-current breaking system it looks like.
At least 7x the amount of use they would get would be standard. Autobelays are inspected yearly (by the manufacturers), the webbing is replaced slightly more often than that, sometimes twice a year.
Exactly. Which is why the Perfect Decents are super slow when you put lightweight kids on them but the True Blues are pretty constant speed no matter what weight (within reason) you put on them.
@@TheArmyKnifeNutthe mechanism in the trublue is basically a centrifugal clutch but instead of pads it's the magnets which is why it's a constant speed no matter the weight as further the arms go out the more the magnets interact
I'm close to 300 lbs and have been too nervous to try an auto belay. I've broken a lot of things, like chairs, beds, bikes, snowboards, etc. I'm much more confident now, and will give it a try on my next trip to the gym!
We've had 2 major injuries at the gym I work in since they opened 10 years ago, both were caused by customers not clipping into the auto belay, it's kinda of wild to me that they didn't even notice while climbing
Even with some pretty massive tarps in front of them it's amazing how people still don't clip in. But in my gym I think bouldering and belayer incompetance still have accounted for more serious injuries in the past 10 years than the autos.
The magnetic version probably experiences less wear over time, just because you're not using sacrificial pads and a clutch. It does use black magic to work, though. Magnets induce eddy currents which induce an opposite magnetic force which causes a ton of drag.
Yep that's exactly what it is and it comes with the advantage of no wear on the break pads, since it doesn't have any. Would be interesting to see how quickly the pads wear on a perfect descent. And it would also be interesting to see if the permanent magnets lose magnetic force over time. Maybe one day a gym could send in their worn auto belays for further testing. I'd be curious to see how the gears wear as well.
@@mobbat42 The main reason magnets lose their strength is through heat, but it's pretty high like 80C (176F) for N52 neodymium magnets. The internal metal parts are pretty beefy so I'd be surprised if it got that hot inside, but would be interesting to know how warm it gets during back-to-back-to-back descents.
I don’t think they understood how dangerous that spring is. It could literally kill you - that much force on a thin strip of metal can easily cut an artery. Yes - PD uses a friction-based mechanism and True Blue uses a magnet-based mechanism. I’d trust these (in a reputable gym) over a human belayer 100% of the time. To add to the conclusion - the complexity of the True Blue meant that it failed in an obvious way - it had failed internally and no longer worked. The simplicity of the PD meant that it had failed (the retention screw was bent, compromising the device), but it still appeared to work. I’d rather have a device that’s more likely to fail safe than to fail dangerous. Of course, this was only one break test on each, so we can’t draw sweeping conclusions.
In theory the magnetic breaking will last a lot longer since it's not friction breaking or relying on the spring for resistance, but only if you're using it as intended and not for the new sea world orca climbing tank exhibit.
I have a number of friends who work at Trublue. They work through magnetic eddy currents like this video describes: th-cam.com/video/NqdOyxJZj0U/w-d-xo.htmlsi=jxTShFhWIbAxSCmV. The big advantage of that is that there is no contact between a brake pad and a rotor/drum. That means there are no pads that need replacing and the braking force wont change over time as the pads wear down. My guess on how it failed is that the heat built up faster than it was designed which caused the magnet to explode. Personally though, if I wanted a personal autobelay that I was going to trust to work for years without annual servicing, I'd choose a Trublue. If I owned a Perfect Descent, I'd definitely be sending it in for servicing as those brake pads will wear away.
The true blue uses Lorentz force to slow down the descent. When you move a metal object across a magnetic field (MF), a current is generated in the metal object and it gets its own MF. The faster the object crosses the MF, the larger the current and MF are induced. The MF of the metal object then interacts with the magnet's MF and that creates a force. The force generated is proportional to the speed of the metal object, so the faster you fall, the greater force the true blue resists.
I think my gym got sick of constantly sending their TrueBlue units in for recalls and stuff because they've started getting a couple of PD's and the only thing I don't like about them over the TrueBlue is the jarringly loud noise they make when they're extending.
one time I was taking apart a clock that has the same type of spring system. took it out it decided to slash my hand. I could only imagine what that thing would do
when i worked at a climbing gym we had trueblue reps come and explain the equipment. it uses "lenz's law," like this video, th-cam.com/video/KNbtopgzwCQ/w-d-xo.html i also think they said something about how it fails too, but i forget. but they did say even if it broke inside it would never just drop the climber. but im pretty sure it also wont keep the climber stuck up there if that makes sense. that might be why it didn't seize and still lowered the rock.
Considering how long the pads on car last and how little pressure the pads on the autobelay had to withstand I would imagine it would never be a problem. The webbing and other components probably would wear way faster.
They both had centrifugal force and brake pads maintenance on aluminum slow down real good The spring is just for retracting the rope just like a tape measure but they both did the job that rock came down slow just one wasn't reusable
NB, Ratings and "life critical" gear should be ~6x the rating before the failure point... SO even that "whipper" at 900 lb, fall factor?? 0.3 - overload (you guys are the ones with the instrumentation... )
Hey, you should consider putting metric units somewhere on screen in your videos. Your videos are a valuable resource in other parts of the world too :D Switching between kN and lbs is really weird, as the relation between kN and kg is much simpler.
![NISAMANEE - TADA (ท้าดา) [ OFFICIAL MV ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hcQHEPMmJpU/mqdefault.jpg)
We would have had to lift the rock up by pulling if it wasn't for the Z2R - we've come so far in our outdoor testing!
20% off Z2Rs until December 18th!
My trust in gear goes up with every episode, even though we're seeing things break. The insane measures you had to take to damage an old auto belay under worst case conditions with gratuitous overloading just goes to show how amazingly safe these are. Thank you for your gear fear breaking services.
- in this episode we also saw things brake... inertially, magnetically and mechanically.
Perfect Descent uses a centrifugal clutch style device, looks like a drum break activated by the spin. Trueblue uses an eddy-current breaking system it looks like.
wats the life on those pads you rekon
At least 7x the amount of use they would get would be standard. Autobelays are inspected yearly (by the manufacturers), the webbing is replaced slightly more often than that, sometimes twice a year.
Exactly. Which is why the Perfect Decents are super slow when you put lightweight kids on them but the True Blues are pretty constant speed no matter what weight (within reason) you put on them.
Spot on indeed.
@@TheArmyKnifeNutthe mechanism in the trublue is basically a centrifugal clutch but instead of pads it's the magnets which is why it's a constant speed no matter the weight as further the arms go out the more the magnets interact
Nice to see Bobby again!
Yeah!! Ive missed him, I hope he’s doing alright
Yes🎉
I'm close to 300 lbs and have been too nervous to try an auto belay. I've broken a lot of things, like chairs, beds, bikes, snowboards, etc. I'm much more confident now, and will give it a try on my next trip to the gym!
But even with the 900lb load on the True Blue, yes you would have had a hard landing, but you would have almost certainly survived.
Agree, you might come away with a limp, but given 3x the rating and slack I will take it.
I'm just glad I'm not 900lbs
That rock walked it off no problem
Yeah, even when it broke it still saved the rocks "life"
We've had 2 major injuries at the gym I work in since they opened 10 years ago, both were caused by customers not clipping into the auto belay, it's kinda of wild to me that they didn't even notice while climbing
Even with some pretty massive tarps in front of them it's amazing how people still don't clip in. But in my gym I think bouldering and belayer incompetance still have accounted for more serious injuries in the past 10 years than the autos.
The magnetic version probably experiences less wear over time, just because you're not using sacrificial pads and a clutch. It does use black magic to work, though. Magnets induce eddy currents which induce an opposite magnetic force which causes a ton of drag.
So I can fall in confidence. Thank you.
Excellent video. I use ABs a good amount at the gym, and always wondered about their limits! Awesome to see you take them apart too.
Really cool to see a video on these. Love all the stuff you guys put out about gear and rope systems. I learn a lot.
I've always wanted to see the inside of an auto belay.
The Trublue one looks like it uses an eddy current brake (magnets induce current in the metal and transfer energy to heat)
Yep that's exactly what it is and it comes with the advantage of no wear on the break pads, since it doesn't have any.
Would be interesting to see how quickly the pads wear on a perfect descent. And it would also be interesting to see if the permanent magnets lose magnetic force over time.
Maybe one day a gym could send in their worn auto belays for further testing.
I'd be curious to see how the gears wear as well.
@@mobbat42 The main reason magnets lose their strength is through heat, but it's pretty high like 80C (176F) for N52 neodymium magnets. The internal metal parts are pretty beefy so I'd be surprised if it got that hot inside, but would be interesting to know how warm it gets during back-to-back-to-back descents.
I don’t think they understood how dangerous that spring is. It could literally kill you - that much force on a thin strip of metal can easily cut an artery.
Yes - PD uses a friction-based mechanism and True Blue uses a magnet-based mechanism. I’d trust these (in a reputable gym) over a human belayer 100% of the time.
To add to the conclusion - the complexity of the True Blue meant that it failed in an obvious way - it had failed internally and no longer worked. The simplicity of the PD meant that it had failed (the retention screw was bent, compromising the device), but it still appeared to work. I’d rather have a device that’s more likely to fail safe than to fail dangerous. Of course, this was only one break test on each, so we can’t draw sweeping conclusions.
Nice to know if I pack on an extra 705lbs and forget how to use an auto belay, I'll still be okay. Wow!
Fun tests, with serious findings . Great afternoon on a cliff.
9:00 Looking directly into the half-exploded roman candle vibes
In theory the magnetic breaking will last a lot longer since it's not friction breaking or relying on the spring for resistance, but only if you're using it as intended and not for the new sea world orca climbing tank exhibit.
Awesome video. Thank you for sharing.
I have a number of friends who work at Trublue. They work through magnetic eddy currents like this video describes: th-cam.com/video/NqdOyxJZj0U/w-d-xo.htmlsi=jxTShFhWIbAxSCmV. The big advantage of that is that there is no contact between a brake pad and a rotor/drum. That means there are no pads that need replacing and the braking force wont change over time as the pads wear down. My guess on how it failed is that the heat built up faster than it was designed which caused the magnet to explode. Personally though, if I wanted a personal autobelay that I was going to trust to work for years without annual servicing, I'd choose a Trublue. If I owned a Perfect Descent, I'd definitely be sending it in for servicing as those brake pads will wear away.
Thanks for showing this and what autobelays look like inside.
I just got my something-to-one and I love it.
The Perfect Ascent looks to be very well built. The centrifugal brake system obviously stopped that mega rock. That would be my choice.
Commenting to keep Ryan Happy :)
The true blue uses Lorentz force to slow down the descent. When you move a metal object across a magnetic field (MF), a current is generated in the metal object and it gets its own MF. The faster the object crosses the MF, the larger the current and MF are induced. The MF of the metal object then interacts with the magnet's MF and that creates a force. The force generated is proportional to the speed of the metal object, so the faster you fall, the greater force the true blue resists.
Brake pads .... means they could wear out. I think magnets are much safer.
Well that was cool!
Not that they would ever let me use one of these in a gym (cause I am ~320lb), but it is nice to know I could.
That's some wild-looking conglomerate, is that around here (Seattle)?
I think my gym got sick of constantly sending their TrueBlue units in for recalls and stuff because they've started getting a couple of PD's and the only thing I don't like about them over the TrueBlue is the jarringly loud noise they make when they're extending.
one time I was taking apart a clock that has the same type of spring system. took it out it decided to slash my hand. I could only imagine what that thing would do
I think you violated the warranty.
In college, we'd pull armfulls of slack from the auto belay and take huge falls 😂 No wonder my back problems persist.
when i worked at a climbing gym we had trueblue reps come and explain the equipment. it uses "lenz's law," like this video, th-cam.com/video/KNbtopgzwCQ/w-d-xo.html i also think they said something about how it fails too, but i forget. but they did say even if it broke inside it would never just drop the climber. but im pretty sure it also wont keep the climber stuck up there if that makes sense. that might be why it didn't seize and still lowered the rock.
Let's hear it for the Harken snap shackle!
Wichard.
That would be cool if one autobelayer could be serviceable or you get so much use, its better to just buy a new one?
The blue one would probably last longer as the pads in the other one would wear out over time
Considering how long the pads on car last and how little pressure the pads on the autobelay had to withstand I would imagine it would never be a problem. The webbing and other components probably would wear way faster.
Hell yea
You were lucky when releasing that spring, to not get hurt. Like your fingers are intact. I was expecting 50 cuts from the spring.
They both had centrifugal force and brake pads maintenance on aluminum slow down real good The spring is just for retracting the rope just like a tape measure but they both did the job that rock came down slow just one wasn't reusable
Dude that guy taking apart that perfect descent could have easily lost a finger. Do not want.
Where is this choss pile?
That spring shooting out looked dangerous. I'm willing to bet the sides of that would cut through your flesh no problem if it hit right. Scary stuff.
should collab with AvE, have him do a teardown of a broken autobelay
not a magnetic. is a centrifugal clutch, kind of the ones in a weedwaker😂
NB, Ratings and "life critical" gear should be ~6x the rating before the failure point...
SO even that "whipper" at 900 lb, fall factor?? 0.3 - overload (you guys are the ones with the instrumentation... )
Hey, you should consider putting metric units somewhere on screen in your videos. Your videos are a valuable resource in other parts of the world too :D Switching between kN and lbs is really weird, as the relation between kN and kg is much simpler.
Don't ever try that with a 300 lb 4" wide spring ..... unless decapitation is your thing ;