Nicely done! Those who talk about the leash segment (and against the leash): watch again - and do that more carefully. That is all it takes. Otherwise, such concern can be valuable itself.
Cool video! The ROBfin boats look super robust and provide good secondary stability. Is using a leash in a river environment a good idea? Might want to read the Packraft Handbook by Luc Mehl for more information. Luc tells stories about fatalities that leashes used in packrafting have been involved in. I learned to packraft by learning to whitewater kayak first. Instead of using a leash, you have buddies that help out if you get separated from your gear. I have never seen a whitewater kayaker, canoeist, ducky paddler or rafter use a leash. Yes, SUPers do, but that is a minority of the river boating community. If you forego the leash you don't have the potential for entanglement hazard associated with the leash. There is a case for the leash in open water crossings, that don't involve a swiftwater. I also see multiple non-locking carabiners being used in the video. The bulk of swiftwater rescue training materials and river paddling books make it very clear that these pose a significant entanglement hazard and are not suitable. Carabiners should be locking and locked. Also, if un-clipping a carabiner rapidly is important and the reason you are using a non-locker, you can use magnetic lockers. Black Diamond has some that I use. For more resources on entanglement hazards read NOLS (National Outdoor Leadership School) River Rescue Guide and Whitewater Safety and Rescue: Essential Knowledge For Canoeists, Kayakers, And Raft Guides.
A fair comment and I concur. A good video and a good criticism. As with everything on this site (youtube); you watch and take onboard the best bits and reject the rest. I do at times however use a leash on whitewater, usually when alone, if I feel being separated from my paddle could result in a more serious consequence E.g. more river to do before any egress. I mitigate the risk of entrapment by having it attached to the boat with a plastic clip that would break/detach (like a fuse) if more than a simple towing force is involved. It is all about making an educated risk assessment, which I try to do but in hindsight do not always get right.
@@meetmedog I think the reason why some packrafters use leashes and most other whitewater boaters don't is many packrafters have a sense of solo adventure that isn't very common in other boaters. People definitely will kayak a river solo, but not as often. Plus most people kayaking solo whitewater have a bombproof roll and don't plan on getting separated during a swim. Yes, there are people that get kayaks from department stores, but social convention in the whitewater kayaking community is to go with a buddy. Counter point, we are all in between swims. I think a secondary reason is packrafters are more likely to be self taught. People who kayak or canoe are more likely to take a course or find a mentor. These of course are generalizations and exceptions always occur. My perspective, is that I paddle many rivers with lots of strainers (log jams, submerged logs, partially submerged logs, shopping carts) so any potential entanglement and entrapment hazards are something I evaluate and mitigate.
@@meetmedog #1 rule in whitewater is generally "don't paddle alone", but obviously plenty do. Just carry a spare paddle or hand paddles if getting separated from your paddle has that serious of consequences. Even with a rated break-away loop/fuse like you mentioned, the cord can be an entrapment hazard.
Hi ROBfin- I think these boats look awesome and I love the outreach work you are doing. However, I see some major safety concerns here ... not just the leash debate in the other comments. I can't figure out how to message you directly, but would love to chat if you are willing. I think it is really important that we all model the best safety practices in these videos.
Nice video. I drove your Packraft a lot this summer and found it very interesting. A couple of videos from the tours will appear on my channel in the fall. Many greetings ronactive
Very cool. But the leash advice is deadly. That is a massive no-no for any whitewater user. Releasable safety belt or not, you are adding a lot of potential for drowning due to entanglement
Eh... They state straight out that it is for BIG rivers and lakes. They state that it is unadvisable and risky in whitewater. Considering that ive heard stories of people drowning after losing their packrafts on windy flatwater sections, bringing and sometimes using a leash for expeditions seems to be sensible advice. At worst they should have emphasized the danger more.
Really Nice video and Beautiful nature. Very interesting. Thank you Very Much
Nicely done!
Those who talk about the leash segment (and against the leash): watch again - and do that more carefully. That is all it takes.
Otherwise, such concern can be valuable itself.
Cool video! The ROBfin boats look super robust and provide good secondary stability.
Is using a leash in a river environment a good idea? Might want to read the Packraft Handbook by Luc Mehl for more information. Luc tells stories about fatalities that leashes used in packrafting have been involved in. I learned to packraft by learning to whitewater kayak first. Instead of using a leash, you have buddies that help out if you get separated from your gear. I have never seen a whitewater kayaker, canoeist, ducky paddler or rafter use a leash. Yes, SUPers do, but that is a minority of the river boating community. If you forego the leash you don't have the potential for entanglement hazard associated with the leash. There is a case for the leash in open water crossings, that don't involve a swiftwater.
I also see multiple non-locking carabiners being used in the video. The bulk of swiftwater rescue training materials and river paddling books make it very clear that these pose a significant entanglement hazard and are not suitable. Carabiners should be locking and locked. Also, if un-clipping a carabiner rapidly is important and the reason you are using a non-locker, you can use magnetic lockers. Black Diamond has some that I use. For more resources on entanglement hazards read NOLS (National Outdoor Leadership School) River Rescue Guide and Whitewater Safety and Rescue: Essential Knowledge For Canoeists, Kayakers, And Raft Guides.
A fair comment and I concur. A good video and a good criticism. As with everything on this site (youtube); you watch and take onboard the best bits and reject the rest. I do at times however use a leash on whitewater, usually when alone, if I feel being separated from my paddle could result in a more serious consequence E.g. more river to do before any egress. I mitigate the risk of entrapment by having it attached to the boat with a plastic clip that would break/detach (like a fuse) if more than a simple towing force is involved. It is all about making an educated risk assessment, which I try to do but in hindsight do not always get right.
@@meetmedog I think the reason why some packrafters use leashes and most other whitewater boaters don't is many packrafters have a sense of solo adventure that isn't very common in other boaters. People definitely will kayak a river solo, but not as often. Plus most people kayaking solo whitewater have a bombproof roll and don't plan on getting separated during a swim. Yes, there are people that get kayaks from department stores, but social convention in the whitewater kayaking community is to go with a buddy. Counter point, we are all in between swims.
I think a secondary reason is packrafters are more likely to be self taught. People who kayak or canoe are more likely to take a course or find a mentor. These of course are generalizations and exceptions always occur.
My perspective, is that I paddle many rivers with lots of strainers (log jams, submerged logs, partially submerged logs, shopping carts) so any potential entanglement and entrapment hazards are something I evaluate and mitigate.
@@meetmedog #1 rule in whitewater is generally "don't paddle alone", but obviously plenty do. Just carry a spare paddle or hand paddles if getting separated from your paddle has that serious of consequences. Even with a rated break-away loop/fuse like you mentioned, the cord can be an entrapment hazard.
Hi ROBfin- I think these boats look awesome and I love the outreach work you are doing. However, I see some major safety concerns here ... not just the leash debate in the other comments. I can't figure out how to message you directly, but would love to chat if you are willing. I think it is really important that we all model the best safety practices in these videos.
Hi Luc, I tried to reply through this channel - one more try - my email is robert@robfin.cz can we chat - I found your book recently, very nice !
Beautiful river! Is it the Soca, in Slovenia?
Nice video. I drove your Packraft a lot this summer and found it very interesting. A couple of videos from the tours will appear on my channel in the fall. Many greetings ronactive
Very cool. But the leash advice is deadly. That is a massive no-no for any whitewater user. Releasable safety belt or not, you are adding a lot of potential for drowning due to entanglement
Eh... They state straight out that it is for BIG rivers and lakes. They state that it is unadvisable and risky in whitewater. Considering that ive heard stories of people drowning after losing their packrafts on windy flatwater sections, bringing and sometimes using a leash for expeditions seems to be sensible advice.
At worst they should have emphasized the danger more.
Buenisimo!