Fun Fact: if you stand in front of a random church in St Louis long enough, you will inevitably meet Matt from the Ten Minute Bible Hour coming for a tour.
Thanks for continuing this excellent series. I think it's incredibly valuable how you model respectful and unthreatened conversation with those you have signifigant disagreements with.
For just over a year I’ve been enjoying attending an Episcopal church in Scotland, which old fundamentalist me would have decried a decade ago. I’ve come to love a completely different tradition and find beauty & clarity there.
I tried other denominations, but realized the church Christ established is the one for me. I want divinely established tradition from thousands of years ago instead of man made tradition from a few hundred years ago
Matt, visit an FSSP Catholic church if you can! When the rector here mentioned facing east, it's very common to think of the priest as standing with his back to the congregation. But liturgically, it's more like the priest is at the front of the congregation, kind of like a holy bus driver. Instead of having a back-and-forth conversation with us, he's leading worship on our behalf. This all becomes very clear in the Latin Mass, which the FSSP still celebrates. Highly recommend you check one out!
How wonderfully civil, embodying good dialogue and curiosity so we can learn from each other. Anglicanism itself is an incredibly 'broad church' and here in the Church of England we have a broad range of beliefs and practices whilst sharing an essential faith centred on the Nicene Creed as an explication of Christ in scripture
The Episcopal Church is also the very most liberal amongst all Anglican provinces in the developed world. The Anglican Church of Canada and the CofE might get the same impression by association and in contrast to conservative Anglicans in Sydney, but I don't think it paints the true picture and many, myself included, are a bit meh with the latest gender ideology. I don't quite care about other people's free will but I am not interested in promoting that idea among my friends either. The bottom line is we are never going to shun anybody nor behave like jerks because of certain minor disagreement.
Fun fact: the Venetians chose St. Mark as the patron saint of their city. The bones of Mark resided in Abbasid Egypt at the time, and the Venetians wanted them to be interred in a new cathedral they would build in his name. So sailors went to Alexandria and stole his bones, and in order to smuggle them past Abbasid customs, hid them in barrels of salted pork (haram to Muslims). Thus the bones of Mark now reside in Venice.
@@logicaredux5205 belay my last, Egypt at that time was under the jurisdiction of the Abbasid Caliphate, not the Ottomans and the cathedral wasn’t completed until after they had abducted the body of Mark. But the account of the smugglers stealing and hiding the bones in barrels of pork is still true.
I have a Baptist background, and am following an Anglican Priest online. I look forward to learn from the things that you experience in your journey here. What a blessing you are.
Small correction of Rev. Mark: Coventry Cathedral is not in London, it's in Coventry, which is about 80 miles northwest of London. Really interesting stuff though, and having lived in Coventry for a few years it is amazing to see the lectern and pulpit halfway across the world made by the same guy who did made the St Michael statue outside the cathedral!
I can't say how much I appreciate your videos. As American Christians it's so easy to go for each others throats over the 'issues of the day', when we have so much in common. You are truly doing God's work!
Matt, what impressed me the most about your interview and exchange of ideas and experiences with Reverend Mark was how respectful and kind both of you are toward each other. I really like your enthusiastic willingness to learn about Mark's strikingly unusual and beautiful church and how services are conducted there - and Rev. Mark seemed most gracious toward and eager to share his knowledge with you, Matt, as well. A very refreshing experience to watch the give and take between the two of you, both clearly highly intelligent and thoughtful men, who exemplify to me what I love most about our country. What I see here stands in stark contrast to the mean-spiritedness, closed-mindedness and unwillingness to listen to others' viewpoints that are so sadly prevalent across our nation these days.
These videos are fantastic. I learn so much from them. I'd love to have you on our podcast, if you'd be willing, and discuss some of the highlights and takeaways you've gained over all these church visits.
Matt, I'd consider myself a pretty conservative "reformed-lite" Baptist, but you have no idea how much I appreciate this series. Through it, I have been able to have conversations with brothers and sisters from other traditions and congregations a younger (and much more foolish) version of myself could have never dreamed of. Keep it up! P.S. I'm loving the study through Ezra and Nehemiah on the TMBH podcast. It's become one of my favorite parts of my day. Thanks for making my commute better!
From time to time on this channel I say something that is just for me to have a little giggle at, and I'm totally at peace with the idea that no one will probably ever catch it or comment on it or laugh along with me. I assumed this would be one of those times, but you proved me wrong. Very well played sir. Respect.
@@MattWhitmanTMBH By the way, I want to thank you. Your visit to Pastor Weedon’s church in Illinois was what convinced me to go to church for the first time. If I hadn’t stumbled across that video my life would have gone a much different direction. God’s blessing to you and your work.
@lukeunderwood163 thank you for telling me that Luke. That's my favorite thing I've read in the comment section in a very very long time. Seriously thank you for taking the time to say that. And also I'm overjoyed to hear about what's happening in your life.
You should do an interview with your videographer. Not sure who it is... but it would be cool to get their take on all those that you have interviewed. Anyway... thanks for the interesting videos.
I am glad you do this, my brother in Christ. As you have come to see firsthand, we Episcopalians vary greatly in our opinions. Even though there have been grievous and painful schisms before now and (it is not improbable) more will happen, our main focus is experiencing the love of our Lord “where the magic happens”. For that, I am grateful.
When questioned why I am Episcopalian/Anglican, my answers are hard to separate from the Eucharist, my high view of Eucharist, and everything attatched to that, Apostolic Sucesssion, etc.
@@josephaugustinerhodenhiser1353 then ACNA or LCMS. Anything without the baggage that comes with mainline Protestant nonsense. Sorry to be so harsh. Prayers for you.
Absolutely love this series of tours and dialogue that you continue to put out. Especially since so many times you find yourself highlighting places in my own backyard in STL! I very much am looking forward to the follow up video from this visit.
The discussion of the windows was fascinating. I don't usually go for contemporary designs in stained glass, as they sometimes come off as dated. There is an element of that here. But once you pick up the story, you see the motif. Christ reigning over everything, even when it is doleful, ugly, and sorrowful, because it's His World, is a moving one.
Quite a visually impressive church you were able to your, Mr. Whitman. I myself had been attending an Episcopal Church the last two or three years, but have since switched to an ACNA parish nearby. Your tour of the Kansas ACNA church was really a great video that struck a chord with me, regarding some of the theology I was struggling to justify. All this said, there are still Godly members of the Episcopal Church. Thank you for this video.
I love your series. It's just so cool. Christianity has so many expressions. Christ and the Gospel is key. Love listening to the pastors all describe things. You are great at your questions Matt!! Grew up Catholic, went Methodist, now Non-denominational, siblings in Angican, Episcopal, Presbyterian, and Baptist members also, we pretty much cover your whole channel almost lol! But have worshipped in all of these and love it. Thanks for doing yoir thing is such style and respect with genuine love and curiosity trying to bring us back together maybe one day❤
Always appreciate the respect you show in your videos. I fall on the more "liberal" side and am looking to join the Episcopal Church in the future, and what bothers me is the lack of charity that is shown on both sides: there are sincere, genuine Christians that are "liberal" and still maintain an orthodox Christology and genuine faith, and there are "conservative" Christians who hold their views in good faith and not out of "bigotry." God gave us two ears and one mouth for a reason: to listen more, and speak less. The more we listen to each other without immediately calling each other "bigots" and "heretics" the better off the Church and it's ability to proclaim the Gospel will be. "Why do you pass judgment on your brother or sister? Or you, why do you despise your brother or sister? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. For it is written, “As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God.” So then, each one of us will be held accountable. Let us therefore no longer pass judgment on one another, but resolve instead never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother or sister." (Romans 13:10-13)
it's not about politics. it is about how you view scripture, tradition, and history. TEC is a heretical and apostate body which is not part of the Church.
Hey Matt! Thanks for uploading the video (I met you in the candy store in Custer, SD a couple years ago where I thanked you for an older video on an Episcopal Church). Fast forward two years, I’m now confirmed in TEC. One of the things I’ve learned while here is even the spectrum of belief. Any chance you ever have to interview an “inclusive orthodox” Episcopal Priest (including LGBTQ folks and ordaining women while also holding to the creeds as defining the dogmas that Christians believe and adhering to Scripture, reason, and, Tradition, as foundational), I’d be really interested to hear that conversation! Thanks and God bless, Matt!
I remember that Luke! Thanks for saying hello, and for the enjoyable conversation in Custer! I appreciate the update and the comment as well. All the best!
Notably the eastward direction changed at the same time it changed in Catholicism, and the controversy he mentioned is mirrored exactly in catholic spaces. The Catholic and Anglican Churches have a great degree of sharing and influence. Even though the catholic church has a more fixed conservative theological stance, its still kind of a point of reference liturgically and aesthetically for the Episcopal church.
Growing up, my parents were evangelical but my grandparents on one side were liberal Episcopal, so this interaction feels quite familiar. The space less so: my grandparents' church definitely had a more traditional architectural design. This one is very cool nonetheless. Interesting how these old spaces are so beautifully designed, yet liberal denominations are shrinking membership rapidly. Hopefully if congregations completely fade away, the spaces are still able to be preserved, whether as churches in some other denomination or respectfully converted to other purposes. (I know there are plenty in Europe that have become museums or libraries.)
Very interesting looking church! I don’t think I’ve ever seen an Art Deco church. I don’t know what I think about those windows but love the priests explanation!
I love Art Deco. And I like it more in a Church than I thought I would. Would love to see a traditional latin mass in an Art Deco Catholic Church or just a very tradition oriented Novus Ordo (such as the Parish I attended in NYC).
Please do visit the Mar Thoma Church in St. Louis if possible! Ours is an Indian denomination which is both oriental orthodox, following the Syrian Orthodox tradition, and also reformed, coming from a Reformation movt among the Syrian Christians of Kerala in India. We are also in communion with the Anglican communion and very active in the ecumenical movement. I think our denomination would be quite interesting!
Me too, I'm in North Mankato and I'm always wondering what Matt would think of Messiah Lutheran's stained glass windows married with 70's building design 😉. We're a small church going through the challenges every church seems to be facing: attendance and reaching multiple generations. We keep feeding the hungry and singing the music though.
Thanks for hitting up a mainline "liberal" church. Just to be clear, there is a wide variety of thought and opinion about theological and cultural issues within every church that get labeled "liberal." I know this being a member of the ELCA. Thank you for your kindness and good will.
Agreed, my local Episcopal Church has a large demographic of veterans and I enjoy very much each military holiday when we honor them and incorporate patriotic hymns.
The most important line in this was about how both y'all don't agree doctrinally but you were still capable of being civil and interested. Like good Christians should be. As a quasi-Christian/spiritualist, this is refreshing in today's politicization of religion where everyone is wagging their finger instead of listening and being nice. Also - such a beautiful church in its own way - and good job on bringing its beauty to those of us who likely will never be in St Louis.
Satan is civil. He does not scream or slap or beat down. He just lies in a persistent way fills itchy ears with what they want to hear as opposed to what god has said. Christ was not civil with sinners ... "white painted graves.." pretty on the outside yet filled with foul death and ... so quietly have your conversation and listen to Satan. This is the world church movement.
I love those stained-glass windows that depict the consequences of humanity rejecting God's rule and our future hope of it being restored one day. Those are cornerstone beliefs of Christianity that I meditate on a lot.
A quick note, in case people are wondering- at 5:17, those are actually staurograms, not chi-rho's. Both are great symbols! The staurogram is the combination of the Greek letters Τ (tau) and Ρ (rho), and is a shortening of the word σταυρός, meaning "cross".
I really appreciate this. I am a Methodist and I am on the more liberal scale. I really appreciate this because it shows our diversity as a church. I watch all your videos Matt and thank you for all you do. You’re a great example to all Christian’s regardless of where we are on the scale.
I would love if you continued this series, but instead interviewed regular congregants and their views of their church and its teachings to see how much they are gaining insight from everything.
Canadian here also. I just left my Anglican Church this past week. Likely for the ACNA, but I’m not 100% on that yet. I once never thought I’d be that guy. But here I am.
@@josephaugustinerhodenhiser1353 It boils down to just too many happenings that I don't believe align with Christian beliefs and teachings. The posting of secular symbols and flags on the front door and signage of the parish, in particular, bothered me a good deal. They are a smaller, struggling parish. On the verge of closing more than once in recent years. It's hard to keep a priest when the parish is struggling like that, so they are often in times of limbo with no clear spiritual leader. A couple of months back they finally got a committed priest again, but he also took exception to the secular symbols causing division in the parish, so they ran him off. It's ridiculous to me to pray for a new priest, got one, ignore his spiritual guidance, run him off, and go back to praying for a leader and for the parish to survive. Over time it's becoming more of a social club than a church.
What lead me to researching liberalism and Conservative Christianity Was I used to play in a Christian rock band. When I was told it's too judgmental to Promote God In The Music and in the band, I left the band and begun researching.
@8:50 very interesting noting the Egyptian inspiration. Knowing that St. Mark is, according to tradition, the one who brought Christianity to Egypt , and founder of the Coptic Church, it makes it even more interesting. Was it intentional, was it an accident? Very interesting.
The architecture and the stained glass is certainly striking. St. Anne (with an 'e') Catholic Church in Memphis, TN was built around the same time (1937) and has a similar style.
Very interesting to see the Christus Victor crucifix. I have a similar design in my rosary beads. A wonderful extra layer of meaning and theology in there
On the first cut the minute 7:04 was so bold. It just me trying to imagine what you were looking at by the expression on your face. This one does make more sense.
I saw a couple of comments about that and went and watched, and I have to say I agree with you. It was so weird without any b-roll, especially while I'm talking about zombie wights in a stained glass window and then you don't get to see it. I think this version is much better. Thanks for your patience with me.
@@MattWhitmanTMBHit's a nice place to visit. Lots of old churches. Two near me one built 900AD the other 1200. Quar Abbey has a very bare plain style but is an amazing place. The Catholic Church I attend is from 1700 ish. It's the first Catholic church to be built in England after the reformation and wasn't allowed bell tower or stained glass, Saint Thomas of Canterbury Newport.
There is a lot of liberalism in the mainline churches. However there are also many traditional, Bible-believing Christians like my friends and myself who believe the mainline can and shall be restored to the faith of its roots. SOLI DEO GLORIA!
Good on Matt for his ability to do this. I have no patience for “liberal” or “modern” Christianity. I appreciate being able to observe this from very far away… ☦️☦️☦️
Matt, you should do a video giving your view of the two different sites of Jesus' death and resurrection in Jerusalem, namely the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and the Garden Tomb.
When considering the slavery and racial subjects of the glass windows and weaving, you have to consider that Missouri and Kansas were the center of the impromptu wars involving the fight for/against slavery before the Civil War. The original churches in that area may have had a strong abolitionist history that they wanted to include in their church. Its founding in 1939 is only a generation-ish away from the Civil War.
What an amazing video. Love this series. I have learned so much from your videos. I was in the wilderness for decades. Came back to Episcopal Church 2.5 years ago and am love how inclusive it is
I thoroughly enjoy your videos. I have a suggestion that I think you could make a really thrilling video on. Pascha is coming up and if you have an English speaking Orthodox cathedral in your area, you should attend the Paschal liturgy. It's the climax of the Orthodox liturgical year and I know you will walk away impacted.
That IS a good idea. Look up an OCA church (Orthodox Church in America) But Pascha is VERY late this year -- in early May. And the big Pascha liturgy is Saturday night, of course.
Personally, I recommend Antiochian but I'm definitely biased. haha. Any of them would be memorable in the extreme. It'd be great to interview the priest the next day to breakdown the meaning of it all.@@philipabraham4613
Reminds me of the time someone from Jews for Jesus or a similar group led a Passover Seder with my congregation on Maundy Thursday. There is so much of that celebration that points to Christ. And each of the cups (as in, "after the third cup") has a particular significance which Jews at the time of the gospels being written would know from childhood, but has been lost in the Christian world as traditional knowledge.
I enjoyed this video very much. I look forward to exploring the other videos in this series. I would like to point out though - as a cradle and lifelong Episcopalian - I think you dwelt too much on the idiomatic style of the artwork and architecture. This is a very lovely church to be sure, but Episcopal churches come in so many artistic varieties. I wish you had focused of the liturgical reasons for the furnishings rather than the artistic style they were rendered in in this particular church. You got close a couple times, i.e., why the altars were moved away from the wall, and the differences between the lectern and the pulpit, but then you'd veer back into the aesthetics and not the liturgical meaning. I can't wait for the second part of this video. I think perhaps the Rector wanted to speak for himself and not have word put into his mouth. Looking forward to it.
Thank you for watching and for the comment. I've covered those details in depth in other visits to Episcopal churches. The appeal of visiting this particular Church was primarily to learn about the unique design and how it is reflective of the beliefs of the church that meets there.
In the Episcopal Church the sermon is not intended to be the central focus of worship, it's only one component. Along with hymns, reading of the scripture/liturgy, collects/prayers, prayers of the people, doxology, statement of faith/nicene creed, passing the peace, announcements, thanksgiving, eucharist/communion, postcommunion prayer & blessing. Somone told me in my early Episcopal days that God stops listening after an hour/hour and fifteen minutes so we don't go on babbling like the pagans... we move on to coffee hour.
What many conservative and liberal Christians don’t get is it is about unity not uniformity. The entire book of Romans is Paul wrestling with teaching Jewish followers of Christ and Gentiles followers of Christ to live in unity even where they have differences in beliefs and practices.
This. It's something I try to tell to schismatics and overly progressive parishioners alike. The church is meant to be large enough for a diversity of opinion, belief, and practice.
God bless the Episcopalian fathful. It saddens me to see the progression if this church towards wordliness becoming a Jesus flavored social club. As an Anglican in the Episcopal Church, I am finally at a point where I am looking for a church home outside the communion.
@@Chomper750 why stay when there are Anglican alternatives to the Episcopal Church? The ACNA if they want to stay in the Anglican Communion or one of the few Continuing Anglican jurisdictions.
@@caseygrow5951 The ACNA isn’t part of the Anglican Communion. And the attitude of picking up and leaving is why there are so many denominational splits.
23:50 "Oh, that's because it's the light of Christ... well, no, there's candles on the altar so there's light and we can see." I'm probably going to disagree with everything else a liberal believes, but I'm glad we can all get together to mock the tryhards 😄
Hey Matt. Another great episode man. Now lemme just say that even though I'm not a Christian (yet), I am definitely on the conservative end of the political spectrum in terms of social issues. What I mean is this. There's certainly somethings that I might be able to either agree with or at least compromise with my liberal and registered Democrat friends. But there's two fundamental things that I can never support that liberals tend to support. One is abortion. I'm sorry but any way you look at it, it's just murder. The whole "childbirth might endanger the life of the mother" argument is not only overused but it's just intellectually bankrupt. This isn't like 200 years ago where birthing a child was actually quite dangerous (and even then abortion was seen by the vast majority of societies on Earth at the time as evil). Almost no mother today dies from giving birth to a child thanks to super advanced medical knowledge. Rape and incest doesn't cut the mustard either. Punish the criminal not the innocent child is the way I look at it. If a mother doesn't want the child then put the child up for adoption DUH! It's pretty crazy that that's considered "an extreme viewpoint" nowadays. The child gets to live (and hopefully adopted by a loving family) and you get to move on with your life. The other issue I have that liberals support that I cannot is gay marriage. Now firstly I do have gay and lesbian friends and while I won't support let alone encourage their lifestyle, I won't proselytize against it either. But when it comes to marriage, I support the biblical notion that marriage is between a man and a woman and nothing else. Infact that has been the mainstay of virtually every other human civilization and society in history even those outside of the Judeo-Christian tradition of what marriage entails. So because liberals support both abortion and gay marriage then I cannot ever become a registered Democrat
The Catholic Church is prolife. It's also the true church founded by Jesus 2000 years ago. Study early church history. Read the book, Rome, Sweet Home, by Professor Scott Hahn. 😊
As Gay Man and devout Anglican from the UK, I am disillusioned by the Church of England, they just want to tick boxes. I wish there was an episcopal nearby.
I am Buddhist. I live in a Buddhist country. It always astounds me when westerners use this term “liberal”. We just use the term “kind” or “humane”. Very stranger how cruel you westerners have become.
Hahahaha, me too! I was so confused at first. But I was happy to find a thoughtful and respectful exchange between Christians with no one trying to “fix” anyone.
Fun Fact: if you stand in front of a random church in St Louis long enough, you will inevitably meet Matt from the Ten Minute Bible Hour coming for a tour.
I’m in the STL metro area and I didn’t even know of this church.
Wouldn't mind that
@@Chomper750Liberal churches tend to have about 3 people in the congregation..
And those three persons are Father Son and Holy Spirit.
Hahahaha….no liberalism is the cancer to a true saving faith.
Thanks for continuing this excellent series. I think it's incredibly valuable how you model respectful and unthreatened conversation with those you have signifigant disagreements with.
Thanks man.
Wow, I didn't expect to see you here. Neat, I love your videos.
For just over a year I’ve been enjoying attending an Episcopal church in Scotland, which old fundamentalist me would have decried a decade ago. I’ve come to love a completely different tradition and find beauty & clarity there.
Clarity on what exactly?
I tried other denominations, but realized the church Christ established is the one for me. I want divinely established tradition from thousands of years ago instead of man made tradition from a few hundred years ago
Since it's a reupload, let me just say it again. That's a nice sweater Matt. Looks sharp.
Love Mom
Aww. Thanks mom.
It really is a great sweater! Stood out immediately.
Thank you very much. It's comfy too.
@@MattWhitmanTMBHI think I own this sweater, can confirm, good sweater.
I was going to ask if they were selling liberal mainline sweaters in the vestibule.
Matt, visit an FSSP Catholic church if you can! When the rector here mentioned facing east, it's very common to think of the priest as standing with his back to the congregation. But liturgically, it's more like the priest is at the front of the congregation, kind of like a holy bus driver. Instead of having a back-and-forth conversation with us, he's leading worship on our behalf. This all becomes very clear in the Latin Mass, which the FSSP still celebrates. Highly recommend you check one out!
FSSP?
@@Chomper750it’s a catholic thing it’s liturgy is in Latin and pre Vatican 2 the modern Catholic Church is making it very hard to have these days
@@Chomper750 - Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter. They offer Catholic Masses exclusively in Latin.
@@3ggshe11s But it's Tridentine, not Salisbury or Sarum.
@@johnpolitis7929 - well, yes, of course. Other than Western Rite Orthodox, I don't know who even uses the Sarum Rite.
How wonderfully civil, embodying good dialogue and curiosity so we can learn from each other. Anglicanism itself is an incredibly 'broad church' and here in the Church of England we have a broad range of beliefs and practices whilst sharing an essential faith centred on the Nicene Creed as an explication of Christ in scripture
The Episcopal Church is also the very most liberal amongst all Anglican provinces in the developed world. The Anglican Church of Canada and the CofE might get the same impression by association and in contrast to conservative Anglicans in Sydney, but I don't think it paints the true picture and many, myself included, are a bit meh with the latest gender ideology. I don't quite care about other people's free will but I am not interested in promoting that idea among my friends either. The bottom line is we are never going to shun anybody nor behave like jerks because of certain minor disagreement.
With the Egyptian theme, I thought he would have mentioned that St. Mark was the one credited with bringing Christianity to Egypt.
Wow
Fun fact: the Venetians chose St. Mark as the patron saint of their city. The bones of Mark resided in Abbasid Egypt at the time, and the Venetians wanted them to be interred in a new cathedral they would build in his name. So sailors went to Alexandria and stole his bones, and in order to smuggle them past Abbasid customs, hid them in barrels of salted pork (haram to Muslims). Thus the bones of Mark now reside in Venice.
@@padenvan Reading this made me, for once, wish the Muslim customs officers would have stopped the grave robbing “Christians” from Venice.
@@logicaredux5205 belay my last, Egypt at that time was under the jurisdiction of the Abbasid Caliphate, not the Ottomans and the cathedral wasn’t completed until after they had abducted the body of Mark. But the account of the smugglers stealing and hiding the bones in barrels of pork is still true.
@@padenvanWonder what happened to those Christians in Egypt? I’m sure the Venetian’s didn’t loot or kill them at all.
I have a Baptist background, and am following an Anglican Priest online. I look forward to learn from the things that you experience in your journey here. What a blessing you are.
Small correction of Rev. Mark: Coventry Cathedral is not in London, it's in Coventry, which is about 80 miles northwest of London. Really interesting stuff though, and having lived in Coventry for a few years it is amazing to see the lectern and pulpit halfway across the world made by the same guy who did made the St Michael statue outside the cathedral!
When he said that, it slightly bugged me, aha
I can't say how much I appreciate your videos. As American Christians it's so easy to go for each others throats over the 'issues of the day', when we have so much in common. You are truly doing God's work!
Matt, what impressed me the most about your interview and exchange of ideas and experiences with Reverend Mark was how respectful and kind both of you are toward each other. I really like your enthusiastic willingness to learn about Mark's strikingly unusual and beautiful church and how services are conducted there - and Rev. Mark seemed most gracious toward and eager to share his knowledge with you, Matt, as well. A very refreshing experience to watch the give and take between the two of you, both clearly highly intelligent and thoughtful men, who exemplify to me what I love most about our country. What I see here stands in stark contrast to the mean-spiritedness, closed-mindedness and unwillingness to listen to others' viewpoints that are so sadly prevalent across our nation these days.
These videos are fantastic. I learn so much from them. I'd love to have you on our podcast, if you'd be willing, and discuss some of the highlights and takeaways you've gained over all these church visits.
Wow the stained glass windows are amazing. Love how you both talked through those windows!
Matt, I'd consider myself a pretty conservative "reformed-lite" Baptist, but you have no idea how much I appreciate this series. Through it, I have been able to have conversations with brothers and sisters from other traditions and congregations a younger (and much more foolish) version of myself could have never dreamed of. Keep it up!
P.S. I'm loving the study through Ezra and Nehemiah on the TMBH podcast. It's become one of my favorite parts of my day. Thanks for making my commute better!
I really appreciate all of that. Thanks a ton for the encouragement and for understanding what I'm going for here. It means a lot.
18:07 “He’s in the Sudetenland, he gobbling up land unczeched.” I see what you did there Matt.
From time to time on this channel I say something that is just for me to have a little giggle at, and I'm totally at peace with the idea that no one will probably ever catch it or comment on it or laugh along with me. I assumed this would be one of those times, but you proved me wrong. Very well played sir. Respect.
@@MattWhitmanTMBH By the way, I want to thank you. Your visit to Pastor Weedon’s church in Illinois was what convinced me to go to church for the first time. If I hadn’t stumbled across that video my life would have gone a much different direction. God’s blessing to you and your work.
@lukeunderwood163 thank you for telling me that Luke. That's my favorite thing I've read in the comment section in a very very long time. Seriously thank you for taking the time to say that. And also I'm overjoyed to hear about what's happening in your life.
You should do an interview with your videographer. Not sure who it is... but it would be cool to get their take on all those that you have interviewed. Anyway... thanks for the interesting videos.
I am glad you do this, my brother in Christ. As you have come to see firsthand, we Episcopalians vary greatly in our opinions. Even though there have been grievous and painful schisms before now and (it is not improbable) more will happen, our main focus is experiencing the love of our Lord “where the magic happens”. For that, I am grateful.
I was thinking the very same. I'm glad you "said" it! Much love.
Go to a real church
When questioned why I am Episcopalian/Anglican, my answers are hard to separate from the Eucharist, my high view of Eucharist, and everything attatched to that, Apostolic Sucesssion, etc.
@@josephaugustinerhodenhiser1353 then ACNA or LCMS. Anything without the baggage that comes with mainline Protestant nonsense. Sorry to be so harsh. Prayers for you.
@@TheJm13post LCMS is young Earth creationist.
Been watching these for years now--genuinely one of my favorites. The architecture and story through the stain glass is incredible.
Can't wait for the discussion. Bet it was good.
WOW I really enjoyed the tour. But I'm very much looking forward to the theological discussion.
Absolutely love this series of tours and dialogue that you continue to put out. Especially since so many times you find yourself highlighting places in my own backyard in STL! I very much am looking forward to the follow up video from this visit.
What an amazing Church. The stained glass windows are awesome. Something to contemplate over. Like the stations of the cross depicted in my church.
This is such a beautiful and unique church. Disagreements aside, you can see so much love and intention put here.
The discussion of the windows was fascinating. I don't usually go for contemporary designs in stained glass, as they sometimes come off as dated. There is an element of that here. But once you pick up the story, you see the motif. Christ reigning over everything, even when it is doleful, ugly, and sorrowful, because it's His World, is a moving one.
That window walk segment was so dang cool. I'm so glad the inside of the church looks better than the outside though.
Matt I Love you. You are so perfect for expressing how so many celebrate the traditions of our Faith.
Quite a visually impressive church you were able to your, Mr. Whitman.
I myself had been attending an Episcopal Church the last two or three years, but have since switched to an ACNA parish nearby. Your tour of the Kansas ACNA church was really a great video that struck a chord with me, regarding some of the theology I was struggling to justify. All this said, there are still Godly members of the Episcopal Church. Thank you for this video.
I love your series. It's just so cool. Christianity has so many expressions. Christ and the Gospel is key. Love listening to the pastors all describe things. You are great at your questions Matt!! Grew up Catholic, went Methodist, now Non-denominational, siblings in Angican, Episcopal, Presbyterian, and Baptist members also, we pretty much cover your whole channel almost lol! But have worshipped in all of these and love it. Thanks for doing yoir thing is such style and respect with genuine love and curiosity trying to bring us back together maybe one day❤
The edifice itself is gorgeous! As a grad student, I used to drive by it many times, but never was inside. I love the style of the stained glass.
Always appreciate the respect you show in your videos. I fall on the more "liberal" side and am looking to join the Episcopal Church in the future, and what bothers me is the lack of charity that is shown on both sides: there are sincere, genuine Christians that are "liberal" and still maintain an orthodox Christology and genuine faith, and there are "conservative" Christians who hold their views in good faith and not out of "bigotry." God gave us two ears and one mouth for a reason: to listen more, and speak less. The more we listen to each other without immediately calling each other "bigots" and "heretics" the better off the Church and it's ability to proclaim the Gospel will be.
"Why do you pass judgment on your brother or sister? Or you, why do you despise your brother or sister? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. For it is written,
“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
and every tongue shall give praise to God.”
So then, each one of us will be held accountable. Let us therefore no longer pass judgment on one another, but resolve instead never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother or sister." (Romans 13:10-13)
it's not about politics. it is about how you view scripture, tradition, and history. TEC is a heretical and apostate body which is not part of the Church.
Jesus founded the Catholic church 2000 years ago. Peter was the first Pope. Study early church history. 😊
Hey Matt! Thanks for uploading the video (I met you in the candy store in Custer, SD a couple years ago where I thanked you for an older video on an Episcopal Church). Fast forward two years, I’m now confirmed in TEC. One of the things I’ve learned while here is even the spectrum of belief. Any chance you ever have to interview an “inclusive orthodox” Episcopal Priest (including LGBTQ folks and ordaining women while also holding to the creeds as defining the dogmas that Christians believe and adhering to Scripture, reason, and, Tradition, as foundational), I’d be really interested to hear that conversation! Thanks and God bless, Matt!
I remember that Luke! Thanks for saying hello, and for the enjoyable conversation in Custer! I appreciate the update and the comment as well. All the best!
I loved the themes behind the windows, so cool and relevant
Notably the eastward direction changed at the same time it changed in Catholicism, and the controversy he mentioned is mirrored exactly in catholic spaces. The Catholic and Anglican Churches have a great degree of sharing and influence. Even though the catholic church has a more fixed conservative theological stance, its still kind of a point of reference liturgically and aesthetically for the Episcopal church.
Interesting Interview! Looking forward to Part II
Very cool. And quite different approach to The Father. Looking forward to the follow-up. Thanks Matt
Growing up, my parents were evangelical but my grandparents on one side were liberal Episcopal, so this interaction feels quite familiar. The space less so: my grandparents' church definitely had a more traditional architectural design. This one is very cool nonetheless. Interesting how these old spaces are so beautifully designed, yet liberal denominations are shrinking membership rapidly. Hopefully if congregations completely fade away, the spaces are still able to be preserved, whether as churches in some other denomination or respectfully converted to other purposes. (I know there are plenty in Europe that have become museums or libraries.)
I'm happy to see this series continue.
In the words of Bishop Daniel S. Tuttle, "We have faith not afraid to reason, and reason not afraid to adore."
I would feel quite at home in this church and with this pastor. And the pipe organ is small, but at least not replaced by a 'praise band'.
I am on the edge of my seat for episode 2...and when this tour started I didn't even think it would be interesting. Can't wait!
Very interesting looking church! I don’t think I’ve ever seen an Art Deco church. I don’t know what I think about those windows but love the priests explanation!
Another great video. Best series on TH-cam.
I love Art Deco. And I like it more in a Church than I thought I would. Would love to see a traditional latin mass in an Art Deco Catholic Church or just a very tradition oriented Novus Ordo (such as the Parish I attended in NYC).
Look up the Anglican cathedral in Napier and the church Fr. Coughlin had built for another couple of very cool art deco churches.
As a non-theist, but one who’s interested in all things spiritual, I’ve enjoyed these videos for years.
Same
I'm very thankful to attend an Orthodox AngloCatholic Episcopal church
That sounds intriguing, where is the location?
What a fascinating church. Quite beautiful and unusual.
Please do visit the Mar Thoma Church in St. Louis if possible! Ours is an Indian denomination which is both oriental orthodox, following the Syrian Orthodox tradition, and also reformed, coming from a Reformation movt among the Syrian Christians of Kerala in India. We are also in communion with the Anglican communion and very active in the ecumenical movement. I think our denomination would be quite interesting!
Now I’d wish to invite you to an ELCA church in Minnesota (I’m not pastor, just a very active lay member)
Me too, I'm in North Mankato and I'm always wondering what Matt would think of Messiah Lutheran's stained glass windows married with 70's building design 😉. We're a small church going through the challenges every church seems to be facing: attendance and reaching multiple generations. We keep feeding the hungry and singing the music though.
Central Lutheran in Minneapolis has many interesting features.
@@2b16p God bless your congregation
@@mj6493 oh definitely, it’s sort of a Lutheran cathedral because the bishop presides over it and it’s very grand architecturally.
Thanks for hitting up a mainline "liberal" church. Just to be clear, there is a wide variety of thought and opinion about theological and cultural issues within every church that get labeled "liberal." I know this being a member of the ELCA. Thank you for your kindness and good will.
Agreed, my local Episcopal Church has a large demographic of veterans and I enjoy very much each military holiday when we honor them and incorporate patriotic hymns.
The most important line in this was about how both y'all don't agree doctrinally but you were still capable of being civil and interested. Like good Christians should be. As a quasi-Christian/spiritualist, this is refreshing in today's politicization of religion where everyone is wagging their finger instead of listening and being nice. Also - such a beautiful church in its own way - and good job on bringing its beauty to those of us who likely will never be in St Louis.
Satan is civil. He does not scream or slap or beat down. He just lies in a persistent way fills itchy ears with what they want to hear as opposed to what
god has said. Christ was not civil with sinners ... "white painted graves.." pretty on the outside yet filled with foul death and ... so quietly have your conversation and listen to Satan. This is the world church movement.
I love those stained-glass windows that depict the consequences of humanity rejecting God's rule and our future hope of it being restored one day. Those are cornerstone beliefs of Christianity that I meditate on a lot.
God bless you, Matt ❤✝
A quick note, in case people are wondering- at 5:17, those are actually staurograms, not chi-rho's. Both are great symbols! The staurogram is the combination of the Greek letters Τ (tau) and Ρ (rho), and is a shortening of the word σταυρός, meaning "cross".
I really appreciate this. I am a Methodist and I am on the more liberal scale. I really appreciate this because it shows our diversity as a church. I watch all your videos Matt and thank you for all you do. You’re a great example to all Christian’s regardless of where we are on the scale.
Can't wait for part two! Really piqued my interest!
Matt, you do alot of the Episcopalian church
I would love if you continued this series, but instead interviewed regular congregants and their views of their church and its teachings to see how much they are gaining insight from everything.
You should check out one of the older western rite Orthodox parishes, most of them used to be historic Anglican churches
I’ve been really enjoying the Anglican Church here in Canada.
Canadian here also. I just left my Anglican Church this past week. Likely for the ACNA, but I’m not 100% on that yet. I once never thought I’d be that guy. But here I am.
@@The_Apple_Fritterwhy are you leaving?
I feel like I've seen your comments on Church @ Home with Rachel!
@@josephaugustinerhodenhiser1353 It boils down to just too many happenings that I don't believe align with Christian beliefs and teachings. The posting of secular symbols and flags on the front door and signage of the parish, in particular, bothered me a good deal.
They are a smaller, struggling parish. On the verge of closing more than once in recent years.
It's hard to keep a priest when the parish is struggling like that, so they are often in times of limbo with no clear spiritual leader. A couple of months back they finally got a committed priest again, but he also took exception to the secular symbols causing division in the parish, so they ran him off.
It's ridiculous to me to pray for a new priest, got one, ignore his spiritual guidance, run him off, and go back to praying for a leader and for the parish to survive.
Over time it's becoming more of a social club than a church.
What lead me to researching liberalism and Conservative Christianity Was I used to play in a Christian rock band. When I was told it's too judgmental to Promote God In The Music and in the band, I left the band and begun researching.
@8:50 very interesting noting the Egyptian inspiration. Knowing that St. Mark is, according to tradition, the one who brought Christianity to Egypt , and founder of the Coptic Church, it makes it even more interesting. Was it intentional, was it an accident? Very interesting.
The architecture and the stained glass is certainly striking. St. Anne (with an 'e') Catholic Church in Memphis, TN was built around the same time (1937) and has a similar style.
Very interesting to see the Christus Victor crucifix. I have a similar design in my rosary beads. A wonderful extra layer of meaning and theology in there
On the first cut the minute 7:04 was so bold. It just me trying to imagine what you were looking at by the expression on your face. This one does make more sense.
I saw a couple of comments about that and went and watched, and I have to say I agree with you. It was so weird without any b-roll, especially while I'm talking about zombie wights in a stained glass window and then you don't get to see it. I think this version is much better. Thanks for your patience with me.
@@MattWhitmanTMBH There was something about it though that was cool. Like you were making us wait for a reveal.
Zombie Wights. I'm from the Isle of Wight. And it's full of zombies and ghosts.
@PaulTheHermit77 That's cool. If like to visit some day. My family draws our name from there. We used to be Wightmans.
@@MattWhitmanTMBHit's a nice place to visit. Lots of old churches. Two near me one built 900AD the other 1200. Quar Abbey has a very bare plain style but is an amazing place. The Catholic Church I attend is from 1700 ish. It's the first Catholic church to be built in England after the reformation and wasn't allowed bell tower or stained glass, Saint Thomas of Canterbury Newport.
Thank you so much for your work!
There is a lot of liberalism in the mainline churches. However there are also many traditional, Bible-believing Christians like my friends and myself who believe the mainline can and shall be restored to the faith of its roots. SOLI DEO GLORIA!
Keep up the good work, brother!
God bless you!
Itwill not be redeemed. Not that many people are going to heaven.
@@FruitOvTheDoomEastern Orthodox
@@thejoshuaproject3809young earth Creationism... Hmm, no.
Hey, Matt! Where did you get your sweater? I dig it.
This a very unique church I have never seen an Episcopal or even an Anglican Church like this design.
Matt, you are not an “outsider” where Christ is honored and worshipped.
I think Matt might agree with that
True but the term outsider adds context that he's not from said tradition
I'm not sure Christ is honored in this church
why is that?@@albertito77
Christ and His teaching is actively denied in episcopal groups, sadly.
Good on Matt for his ability to do this. I have no patience for “liberal” or “modern” Christianity. I appreciate being able to observe this from very far away…
☦️☦️☦️
Thanks for visiting a liberal denomination!!
Matt, you should do a video giving your view of the two different sites of Jesus' death and resurrection in Jerusalem, namely the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and the Garden Tomb.
I'm not a sound guy, but the reverb difference was pretty stark once in the auditorium
I'm definitely not form a Protestant tradition with a 12 minute homily 🤣🤣
Yes, the white pixels are part of the video, not your screen. There are five of them.
So 1930s. I love it 🔥
When considering the slavery and racial subjects of the glass windows and weaving, you have to consider that Missouri and Kansas were the center of the impromptu wars involving the fight for/against slavery before the Civil War. The original churches in that area may have had a strong abolitionist history that they wanted to include in their church. Its founding in 1939 is only a generation-ish away from the Civil War.
I grew up in the Episcopal Church and I went through confirmation. (June 1, 2024) This video hits home.
And we're happy to have you!
Hey! Welcome back home!
@@mcmbslipknotmcr another Church @ Home with Rachel viewer!
What an amazing video. Love this series. I have learned so much from your videos. I was in the wilderness for decades. Came back to Episcopal Church 2.5 years ago and am love how inclusive it is
Coventry cathedral is in Coventry. Coventry is not in london its a city on its own.
I thoroughly enjoy your videos. I have a suggestion that I think you could make a really thrilling video on. Pascha is coming up and if you have an English speaking Orthodox cathedral in your area, you should attend the Paschal liturgy. It's the climax of the Orthodox liturgical year and I know you will walk away impacted.
That IS a good idea. Look up an OCA church (Orthodox Church in America) But Pascha is VERY late this year -- in early May. And the big Pascha liturgy is Saturday night, of course.
Personally, I recommend Antiochian but I'm definitely biased. haha. Any of them would be memorable in the extreme. It'd be great to interview the priest the next day to breakdown the meaning of it all.@@philipabraham4613
Reminds me of the time someone from Jews for Jesus or a similar group led a Passover Seder with my congregation on Maundy Thursday. There is so much of that celebration that points to Christ. And each of the cups (as in, "after the third cup") has a particular significance which Jews at the time of the gospels being written would know from childhood, but has been lost in the Christian world as traditional knowledge.
Really interesting video!!
Thank you!
Matt please visit SSPX chapels!
not ashamed that I understood the "wight" reference
What was broken with the video ?
Coventry Cathedral - in London! Bless him! 😂
I enjoyed this video very much. I look forward to exploring the other videos in this series. I would like to point out though - as a cradle and lifelong Episcopalian - I think you dwelt too much on the idiomatic style of the artwork and architecture. This is a very lovely church to be sure, but Episcopal churches come in so many artistic varieties. I wish you had focused of the liturgical reasons for the furnishings rather than the artistic style they were rendered in in this particular church. You got close a couple times, i.e., why the altars were moved away from the wall, and the differences between the lectern and the pulpit, but then you'd veer back into the aesthetics and not the liturgical meaning. I can't wait for the second part of this video. I think perhaps the Rector wanted to speak for himself and not have word put into his mouth. Looking forward to it.
Thank you for watching and for the comment. I've covered those details in depth in other visits to Episcopal churches. The appeal of visiting this particular Church was primarily to learn about the unique design and how it is reflective of the beliefs of the church that meets there.
Hey! Am I first??? (Do people still do that?) Thanks for fixing.
Wow, an 8 minute exhortation on Sunday as the sermon.
In the Episcopal Church the sermon is not intended to be the central focus of worship, it's only one component. Along with hymns, reading of the scripture/liturgy, collects/prayers, prayers of the people, doxology, statement of faith/nicene creed, passing the peace, announcements, thanksgiving, eucharist/communion, postcommunion prayer & blessing. Somone told me in my early Episcopal days that God stops listening after an hour/hour and fifteen minutes so we don't go on babbling like the pagans... we move on to coffee hour.
What many conservative and liberal Christians don’t get is it is about unity not uniformity.
The entire book of Romans is Paul wrestling with teaching Jewish followers of Christ and Gentiles followers of Christ to live in unity even where they have differences in beliefs and practices.
This. It's something I try to tell to schismatics and overly progressive parishioners alike. The church is meant to be large enough for a diversity of opinion, belief, and practice.
Well said.
@@langwaydpful *nods* this is the way.
God bless the Episcopalian fathful. It saddens me to see the progression if this church towards wordliness becoming a Jesus flavored social club. As an Anglican in the Episcopal Church, I am finally at a point where I am looking for a church home outside the communion.
Why leave? Why not be an example for others?
I’m a former Episcopal, turned Catholic. Come home to the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church!!!
@@Chomper750 why stay when there are Anglican alternatives to the Episcopal Church? The ACNA if they want to stay in the Anglican Communion or one of the few Continuing Anglican jurisdictions.
@@caseygrow5951 The ACNA isn’t part of the Anglican Communion.
And the attitude of picking up and leaving is why there are so many denominational splits.
come to ACNA, it’s great
23:50 "Oh, that's because it's the light of Christ... well, no, there's candles on the altar so there's light and we can see."
I'm probably going to disagree with everything else a liberal believes, but I'm glad we can all get together to mock the tryhards 😄
Father Mark < St Mark's < St. Louis
Hey Matt. Another great episode man. Now lemme just say that even though I'm not a Christian (yet), I am definitely on the conservative end of the political spectrum in terms of social issues. What I mean is this. There's certainly somethings that I might be able to either agree with or at least compromise with my liberal and registered Democrat friends. But there's two fundamental things that I can never support that liberals tend to support. One is abortion. I'm sorry but any way you look at it, it's just murder. The whole "childbirth might endanger the life of the mother" argument is not only overused but it's just intellectually bankrupt. This isn't like 200 years ago where birthing a child was actually quite dangerous (and even then abortion was seen by the vast majority of societies on Earth at the time as evil). Almost no mother today dies from giving birth to a child thanks to super advanced medical knowledge. Rape and incest doesn't cut the mustard either. Punish the criminal not the innocent child is the way I look at it. If a mother doesn't want the child then put the child up for adoption DUH! It's pretty crazy that that's considered "an extreme viewpoint" nowadays. The child gets to live (and hopefully adopted by a loving family) and you get to move on with your life. The other issue I have that liberals support that I cannot is gay marriage. Now firstly I do have gay and lesbian friends and while I won't support let alone encourage their lifestyle, I won't proselytize against it either. But when it comes to marriage, I support the biblical notion that marriage is between a man and a woman and nothing else. Infact that has been the mainstay of virtually every other human civilization and society in history even those outside of the Judeo-Christian tradition of what marriage entails. So because liberals support both abortion and gay marriage then I cannot ever become a registered Democrat
He's talking about theological liberalism, not political liberalism.
The Catholic Church is prolife. It's also the true church founded by Jesus 2000 years ago. Study early church history. Read the book, Rome, Sweet Home, by Professor Scott Hahn. 😊
8-12 minute sermons? Huh.
As Gay Man and devout Anglican from the UK, I am disillusioned by the Church of England, they just want to tick boxes. I wish there was an episcopal nearby.
From the UK or do you still reside in the UK?
commemorate my wife in a baptismal inside a church... I think the members may have lost the point of the house of the Lord... its not about us.
I am Buddhist. I live in a Buddhist country. It always astounds me when westerners use this term “liberal”. We just use the term “kind” or “humane”. Very stranger how cruel you westerners have become.
Are "liberal" and "kind/humane" synonyms where you're from? They certainly aren't in Canada/US.
@@Szuubs That’s because you have become dark-minded, obsessed with past “glories” and filled with fear of imaginary things.
@wordscapes5690 You still dwell in wickedness so your words ring hollow.
@@Insomnolant1335 Thank you for proving my point. Namo Buddhaya,
Absolutely gorgeous! Let All the world be Bethlehem! Blessings!
I thought from the title he fixed the theology.
That't what I thought so I had to scroll the comments to find out what was FIXED.
Hahahaha, me too! I was so confused at first. But I was happy to find a thoughtful and respectful exchange between Christians with no one trying to “fix” anyone.