To try everything Brilliant has to offer-free-for a full 30 days, visit brilliant.org/ByteofMichael You’ll also get 20% off an annual premium subscription.
50% makes less than 5 000 $ before the Steam cut and local taxes ? Which means ... around 40% of 5 000 $ = 2 000 $ ? For a game made in 6 monts = 333 $ per month ? For a game made in 12 months = 166 $/month ? For a game made in 2 years = 83 $/month ?
@@anonymone453 Well the ammount of time is the factor you should keep an eye on. If your Idea is good, you can make one outstanding game many people want to by. But If you use the same time für 100 games you will flood the stores with trash. I believe the love and afford you out in your own product will Show up in selling
Problem is not this. Problem is the game itself and marketing. Many indie devs are simple not good business or product (game) people. And the competitions today is a lot harder = even more focus on above is needed.
This... Way too many indie blame everything else but never question the game they released.. one indie team during a post mortem said "I did not know my game has to look good"...
@@joantonio6331 I might sound harsh but many lack the ability to take a stance back and give a third party view on their game. And it’s nothing odd. It’s HARD to have this “eye” also it’s hard to make unique good looking games. I’ll been working in game dev professionally now for over 30 years and it’s still the biggest challenge for me. I think the key thing is as you say. To be able to take accountability for the lack of this. No one expect anyone to make a super seller. Especially if it’s your first game and you make it alone or with very few people / tight budget. Still then don’t act surprised or as you say blame other things if the game don’t sell well.
@@joantonio6331 Five Nights at Freddy's does not look good, Flappy Bird does not look good. Nor are they very good games mechanically. The online market alone around chess is 150 million $ *anually*. Chess doesn't look good. The hard truth is you can market your game 24/7 on social media, make a good looking, fun/engaging game and still fail. Knowing why games succeed or fail is a million dollar question. If anyone knew exactly, they'd be making tons of money out of it.
Attachment expectations and lack of foresight is the key to an unrecoverable failure. Where you can't take the fall and thus partially or fully gave up.
The truth about being a soccer player The truth about being a race car driver The truth about being an artist The truth about life - be exceptional... I hate titles like these on videos tbh Your mistakes say nothing about the market. I wish you all the best:)
Actually, those titles say everything you need to know, but it's what people don't want to hear. If you aren't at least above average, it is going to be extremely difficult to make a good living selling indie games.
The problem is simply that way too many indie game are just bad, look cheap and ugly... There is a believe in the indie community that your game has to look bad or pixels art... Very few wants to make the effort to actually learn how to make their game look good.... They are simply not entrepreneur... They think they just make a game in 4 months, get some wishlist and money will come. Some said that $40 a month for marvelous designer is too much,... That show the mindset. I remember one time someone simply asked why indie do not try to make beautiful game on itch because it can be easier to market... They went hard on that guy, they insulted him, trashed him for just asking why they do not try to make better looking games. So do not blame the sky and the gods for your game failing, just look at the product you released.
This is a very subjective and generalizing view and definitely from a consumer perspective. And while I understand where you're aiming at, from a marketing perspective you're a single data point, a 1 in those, say, n=400 type of market studies. For each bad game you show me on steam, I could show you two good looking, mechanically well designed games that are/were not successful and one that looks bad, but is successful anyway. Why the good failed and the bad still succeeded is the million dollar question and if anyone could answer that, they'd be making tons of money out of that info. If you're really interested in marketing I'd recommend Chris Zukowski's talks. It's not a guarantee for success, but definitely improves the odds to know the market from a non-consumer perspective.
@@powertomato I know Chris Zukowsky and you are falling to this trap of the ugly game.... An ugly looking game in a nice niche will still sell more than a good looking polished game in a bad niche... Still a bad looking game in a good niche will sell way less than a good looking game in that same niche... Do you know unrecord? That game is selling itself do you know why..? Great visual
@@BraveAbandon I am making a game. I went way out if my comfort zone. I learned how to properly texture a mesh (because I want my game to have a wow Factor), I did an extensive market research to find which genre I can make my game to increase the odds of success. I invested in software, courses and hardware... Why? Because I see this as a business... I went as far as learning C++ because it is faster than blueprint, learning to optimize my game ect...
You are 100% right, anytime I see someone talk about their “failed game” on Reddit or forums, “I spent x years and my game is failing” I look at their games and understand exactly why..they either look horrible or play horrible and that’s the cold hard truth why would anyone want to buy your game when there’s 10,000s out there that are more polished.
3:28 This is absolutely untrue. Who told you it is common for a publisher to take 100% of all revenue only to pay whatever else is left after recouping their investment? You really think publishers only ever want to recoup their investment? Of course not. In fact, no developer should accept any publisher deal anymore where the cut they take is above 15%. Because the truth is that in today's modern world, game devs don't need publishers anymore. And if they do take more than 15%, there's already virtually nothing left. (taxes, cuts taken by Steam, Apple, Google, refunds, whatever expenses you had creating the game, etc.) The _real_ truth is how most games plain simply suck monkey balls and aren't worth playing even for free... The amount of experienced game devs that make literally no money is really somewhat small. And it is mostly due to them making games for a niche market, failing to produce something great. 3:55 Who told you that's the average investment by a publisher?! It's off by a factor 10 at least. Most game devs should consider themselves lucky when they get $30K upfront to finish a game that has zero guarantee of selling copies. And most will get $0 upfront.
Professional SWE here, starting into game dev as a hobby. Excited to be making games whether or not it makes money. Fun fact however: Steam allows people to sell Steam keys of their games however they want (humble bundle, for example) and if they are sold outside of Steam, Steam won’t take a cut despite it being in their Steam library and from a Steam key.
You can't have a lower price than steam though.. that always made me question how they bundle games cheap in humble without affecting the steam prices.. thoughts?
@@Iamjake1000 I would say either they lower the price on steam with a sale temporarily as well but advertise the humble bundle deal, OR it simply isn’t well enforced
@@Iamjake1000 humble has each bundle up for a month or so right? i guess that could count as a "sale" since its there for a limited time? that or maybe 3rd party sellers aren't affected (i tried to read steam guidelines but they didn't specify this) and (maybe) the rule is made for developers/publishers that are their own sites/launchers up and aren't allowed to have full price lower than on steam (they are allowed to have sales). Also i have heard of humblebundle just basically run out of keys few times (i believe there was Warner Bros bundle recently that had this issue where MULTIPLE of the games either didn't work because of localization limitations or buyer didn't get a key at all). Steam only gives 5000 keys as default and devs can pledge for more if needed - but i bet steam does some basic manual check at this point and can deny the request (maybe this is what caused bundle to run out of keys? that or there was communication issues with WB devs/publishers.. or they just were not prepared).
Humble Bundle has its own store. I bought bundles from them in the past and games from its store... Most are steam keys but a few are other.... Well, I have seen few GOG keys too,
On my own example (not game dev, just writing stuff) I have observed it's not the lack of income that burns your motivation most efficiently, it's the lack of audience. If you spend days and nights crafting a story which ends up never making above 20-30 views and one or two five star ratings, you just stop feeling like doing it any more.
That means, for the majority of devs are all the game engines for free, because they will never earn enought that they reach the mark to pay fees to Unreal or Unity.
The Unity drama was akin to your local pub's arm wrestlers protesting against the Olympic Games upping the minimum qualification threshold for weightlifting.
Nowadays it is difficult to stand out from the crowd with self-developed games on the modern games market. You should keep in mind that the teams of large companies such as Ubisoft, Nintendo, etc. consist of a team of over 100 people. Of course, they are more capable of bringing us professional and clean games than we as a single person dev taking the matter into our own hands. With experience alone, we need about half a year to a whole year to make the game even functional. With 2D games we now have even worse cards on the market, because the expectations of the players will soon exceed the computing power of my computers. We have to spend a lot of time making the game good enough for people to pay for it. On the other hand, we would otherwise have to do it like other companies: find a small team and divide the profits fairly.
The problem is that many games don't look good The first thing people watch is how your game looks I know it's very hard to make games and be good at programming and drawing Even if you don't make any money the first time you can always improve
@@MarianGameDev-g7f yeah , i'm understand this when recently worked with cgi(particles and shaders)
2 หลายเดือนก่อน +8
I think indie devs have to ask themselves one question. Why would anyone buy a game that is a copy od another 100 games but is also slightly worse in every aspect?
4:40 Thomas has almost no experience in actually selling or promoting indie games... he's a TH-camr first and foremost. None of his games ever got 100,000 wishlists.... nor did they sell 'millions'. I wouldn't be surprised if the main chunk of his income comes from TH-cam, not videogames. As is true for many indie devs that are super active on TH-cam.
Hi. Do you know if I put a game on a platform like appstore and people can buy it there or people can buy extra things in the game. Will I have to keep the game there on appstore forever? You know, so that people always have access to their product. Can I not remove it again if I five years from now dont want to pay appstore for having it there anymore. Or can i run into legal problems if I remove it later
In america, no problem. In Eu, very pig problem. You will be fined for all you are worth. Do not sell your app in EU territory if you plan to do such a thing. Region lock your appstore game
the graph at 2:15 is interesting but a really weird choice, is the Y axis....logarithmic? how does it scale like that? Why is the Y axis dollars instead of the percentages along the X axis?
Make small games that you'd like to play. Ive made 4 big games, and am making 2 more, after them, its small games from here on out...they end up making the same revenue. (In my experience)
Too bad for you brother keep Going you'll make it one day. Maybe the problem is us indie dev we are too focus on how to make money but we should be focus on how to make a better or a good game. I think we makes games now too for money and anymore for the love of making game. But that love cannot make you eat i know that But if notch had make minecraft just for the money maybe every would never played at this game. ( excuse my english , in my country we talk french , but because I had watch many English video about indie dev i speak and write a lil bit )
Something I'd like to know if these people who didn't make much. Is ahpw hard dis they work, how good are their games etc? Because the market is that staturated I feel 60-70% of games are terrible, so would that be 70% of those figures?
Just got started with Godot and trying to learn it is not easy (since I’m new to the app) but I am determined to learn it I started by creating small simple games like maybe a ping pong game and work my way there right now I have an idea for a game I’ve been wanting to create ever since i started playing stardew valley it’s basically kinda similar to valley but way different instead of it being a farming simulator it’s more of an adventure/RPG type story were you play as a young vampire who just graduated high school and got accepted into a school full of different kinds of creatures like vampires werewolf etc but I gotta learn that coding first so that’s what I’ve been doing for two weeks is learn to code and I think I’m getting good at it too be honest with you
Hey, this sounds great. Stardew Valley is an amazing game but it lacks depth and good story. The money you make doesn't do much so it's not rewarding and there is no end game or purpose other than to enlarge your farm but for no obvious reasons. So this can help with your game maybe. That being said, I also came across Godot and became interested in the idea. So now after few months, how confident are you? Do you have any background in game dev/programming? And how long do you think you need to make your dream game? I'm an IT graduate and I have very basic knowledge of programing, maybe less than basic but I understand some concepts, so how does this look from your prospective? Wish you all the best and looking forward to your update and if possibly answers to my questions.
To try everything Brilliant has to offer-free-for a full 30 days, visit brilliant.org/ByteofMichael You’ll also get 20% off an annual premium subscription.
Strange question, but are you in need of a game music producer?
50% makes less than 5 000 $ before the Steam cut and local taxes ? Which means ... around 40% of 5 000 $ = 2 000 $ ? For a game made in 6 monts = 333 $ per month ? For a game made in 12 months = 166 $/month ? For a game made in 2 years = 83 $/month ?
Simple rule: be the 1%
My thought exactly 😂
Or make 100 games.
@@anonymone453 Well the ammount of time is the factor you should keep an eye on. If your Idea is good, you can make one outstanding game many people want to by. But If you use the same time für 100 games you will flood the stores with trash. I believe the love and afford you out in your own product will Show up in selling
Nope, go make a mobile game.
@@DLAXTOXyou still need to be the 1% there as well. Platform do not matter really. Product and marketing does
Problem is not this. Problem is the game itself and marketing.
Many indie devs are simple not good business or product (game) people.
And the competitions today is a lot harder = even more focus on above is needed.
This... Way too many indie blame everything else but never question the game they released.. one indie team during a post mortem said "I did not know my game has to look good"...
@@joantonio6331 I might sound harsh but many lack the ability to take a stance back and give a third party view on their game. And it’s nothing odd. It’s HARD to have this “eye” also it’s hard to make unique good looking games.
I’ll been working in game dev professionally now for over 30 years and it’s still the biggest challenge for me.
I think the key thing is as you say. To be able to take accountability for the lack of this. No one expect anyone to make a super seller. Especially if it’s your first game and you make it alone or with very few people / tight budget. Still then don’t act surprised or as you say blame other things if the game don’t sell well.
@@joantonio6331 Five Nights at Freddy's does not look good, Flappy Bird does not look good. Nor are they very good games mechanically.
The online market alone around chess is 150 million $ *anually*. Chess doesn't look good.
The hard truth is you can market your game 24/7 on social media, make a good looking, fun/engaging game and still fail. Knowing why games succeed or fail is a million dollar question. If anyone knew exactly, they'd be making tons of money out of it.
Attachment expectations and lack of foresight is the key to an unrecoverable failure. Where you can't take the fall and thus partially or fully gave up.
@@ultimaxkom8728 so true
The truth about being a soccer player
The truth about being a race car driver
The truth about being an artist
The truth about life - be exceptional...
I hate titles like these on videos tbh
Your mistakes say nothing about the market.
I wish you all the best:)
Actually, those titles say everything you need to know, but it's what people don't want to hear. If you aren't at least above average, it is going to be extremely difficult to make a good living selling indie games.
The problem is simply that way too many indie game are just bad, look cheap and ugly...
There is a believe in the indie community that your game has to look bad or pixels art... Very few wants to make the effort to actually learn how to make their game look good.... They are simply not entrepreneur... They think they just make a game in 4 months, get some wishlist and money will come. Some said that $40 a month for marvelous designer is too much,... That show the mindset. I remember one time someone simply asked why indie do not try to make beautiful game on itch because it can be easier to market... They went hard on that guy, they insulted him, trashed him for just asking why they do not try to make better looking games.
So do not blame the sky and the gods for your game failing, just look at the product you released.
This is a very subjective and generalizing view and definitely from a consumer perspective. And while I understand where you're aiming at, from a marketing perspective you're a single data point, a 1 in those, say, n=400 type of market studies. For each bad game you show me on steam, I could show you two good looking, mechanically well designed games that are/were not successful and one that looks bad, but is successful anyway.
Why the good failed and the bad still succeeded is the million dollar question and if anyone could answer that, they'd be making tons of money out of that info. If you're really interested in marketing I'd recommend Chris Zukowski's talks. It's not a guarantee for success, but definitely improves the odds to know the market from a non-consumer perspective.
@@powertomato I know Chris Zukowsky and you are falling to this trap of the ugly game.... An ugly looking game in a nice niche will still sell more than a good looking polished game in a bad niche... Still a bad looking game in a good niche will sell way less than a good looking game in that same niche... Do you know unrecord? That game is selling itself do you know why..? Great visual
@@BraveAbandon I am making a game. I went way out if my comfort zone.
I learned how to properly texture a mesh (because I want my game to have a wow Factor), I did an extensive market research to find which genre I can make my game to increase the odds of success.
I invested in software, courses and hardware... Why? Because I see this as a business... I went as far as learning C++ because it is faster than blueprint, learning to optimize my game ect...
You are 100% right, anytime I see someone talk about their “failed game” on Reddit or forums, “I spent x years and my game is failing” I look at their games and understand exactly why..they either look horrible or play horrible and that’s the cold hard truth why would anyone want to buy your game when there’s 10,000s out there that are more polished.
Thank you. There is a youtuber game dev blaming EVERYONE but looking at themselves. I just couldn't get how someone can be that blind
Diablo 4 isn't free to play. its a 70 dollar game with monetization. Just odd you showed that as the free to play game section.
Maybe immortal. It is free
now it's on game pass
Compared to the *FULL* game of Diablo Immortal, $70 is practically free. Which is insane to say the least.
3:28 This is absolutely untrue. Who told you it is common for a publisher to take 100% of all revenue only to pay whatever else is left after recouping their investment? You really think publishers only ever want to recoup their investment? Of course not. In fact, no developer should accept any publisher deal anymore where the cut they take is above 15%. Because the truth is that in today's modern world, game devs don't need publishers anymore. And if they do take more than 15%, there's already virtually nothing left. (taxes, cuts taken by Steam, Apple, Google, refunds, whatever expenses you had creating the game, etc.)
The _real_ truth is how most games plain simply suck monkey balls and aren't worth playing even for free... The amount of experienced game devs that make literally no money is really somewhat small. And it is mostly due to them making games for a niche market, failing to produce something great.
3:55 Who told you that's the average investment by a publisher?! It's off by a factor 10 at least. Most game devs should consider themselves lucky when they get $30K upfront to finish a game that has zero guarantee of selling copies. And most will get $0 upfront.
Professional SWE here, starting into game dev as a hobby. Excited to be making games whether or not it makes money.
Fun fact however: Steam allows people to sell Steam keys of their games however they want (humble bundle, for example) and if they are sold outside of Steam, Steam won’t take a cut despite it being in their Steam library and from a Steam key.
You can't have a lower price than steam though.. that always made me question how they bundle games cheap in humble without affecting the steam prices.. thoughts?
@@Iamjake1000 I would say either they lower the price on steam with a sale temporarily as well but advertise the humble bundle deal, OR it simply isn’t well enforced
@@Iamjake1000 humble has each bundle up for a month or so right? i guess that could count as a "sale" since its there for a limited time? that or maybe 3rd party sellers aren't affected (i tried to read steam guidelines but they didn't specify this) and (maybe) the rule is made for developers/publishers that are their own sites/launchers up and aren't allowed to have full price lower than on steam (they are allowed to have sales). Also i have heard of humblebundle just basically run out of keys few times (i believe there was Warner Bros bundle recently that had this issue where MULTIPLE of the games either didn't work because of localization limitations or buyer didn't get a key at all). Steam only gives 5000 keys as default and devs can pledge for more if needed - but i bet steam does some basic manual check at this point and can deny the request (maybe this is what caused bundle to run out of keys? that or there was communication issues with WB devs/publishers.. or they just were not prepared).
Humble Bundle has its own store. I bought bundles from them in the past and games from its store... Most are steam keys but a few are other.... Well, I have seen few GOG keys too,
On my own example (not game dev, just writing stuff) I have observed it's not the lack of income that burns your motivation most efficiently, it's the lack of audience. If you spend days and nights crafting a story which ends up never making above 20-30 views and one or two five star ratings, you just stop feeling like doing it any more.
That means, for the majority of devs are all the game engines for free, because they will never earn enought that they reach the mark to pay fees to Unreal or Unity.
90% of indie game devs expects to be the top 9% and make more than $1,000,000 a year. Don't even ask about the math or source.
The Unity drama was akin to your local pub's arm wrestlers protesting against the Olympic Games upping the minimum qualification threshold for weightlifting.
Nowadays it is difficult to stand out from the crowd with self-developed games on the modern games market. You should keep in mind that the teams of large companies such as Ubisoft, Nintendo, etc. consist of a team of over 100 people. Of course, they are more capable of bringing us professional and clean games than we as a single person dev taking the matter into our own hands. With experience alone, we need about half a year to a whole year to make the game even functional. With 2D games we now have even worse cards on the market, because the expectations of the players will soon exceed the computing power of my computers. We have to spend a lot of time making the game good enough for people to pay for it. On the other hand, we would otherwise have to do it like other companies: find a small team and divide the profits fairly.
You can make 3D game! More giant companies can't rotated experimentate correctly for example. For this need indie devs
The problem is that many games don't look good
The first thing people watch is how your game looks
I know it's very hard to make games and be good at programming and drawing
Even if you don't make any money the first time you can always improve
@@MarianGameDev-g7f yeah , i'm understand this when recently worked with cgi(particles and shaders)
I think indie devs have to ask themselves one question. Why would anyone buy a game that is a copy od another 100 games but is also slightly worse in every aspect?
4:40 Thomas has almost no experience in actually selling or promoting indie games... he's a TH-camr first and foremost. None of his games ever got 100,000 wishlists.... nor did they sell 'millions'. I wouldn't be surprised if the main chunk of his income comes from TH-cam, not videogames. As is true for many indie devs that are super active on TH-cam.
Hi. Do you know if I put a game on a platform like appstore and people can buy it there or people can buy extra things in the game. Will I have to keep the game there on appstore forever? You know, so that people always have access to their product. Can I not remove it again if I five years from now dont want to pay appstore for having it there anymore. Or can i run into legal problems if I remove it later
In america, no problem.
In Eu, very pig problem. You will be fined for all you are worth.
Do not sell your app in EU territory if you plan to do such a thing. Region lock your appstore game
could i ask the name of the 3 games at 3:13 ?
Did you mean owlboy?
Could I ask what program what shown at 6:53?
Substance Painter
adobe substance painter 3d
the graph at 2:15 is interesting but a really weird choice, is the Y axis....logarithmic? how does it scale like that? Why is the Y axis dollars instead of the percentages along the X axis?
I made $100 with my first game. It took me 6 months to make. Not a great return on investment.
whats better? to make small games on mobile quickly or get more money with longer time developing on steam/console
Make what you love. Don't sell yourself as many did. It's not worth it
Make small games that you'd like to play. Ive made 4 big games, and am making 2 more, after them, its small games from here on out...they end up making the same revenue. (In my experience)
if for money. small games/ if for you fun such big game,which you want
You arent gonna make money regardless, so make what you are interested in.
@@atomicall I plan to make money
Too bad for you brother keep Going you'll make it one day.
Maybe the problem is us indie dev we are too focus on how to make money but we should be focus on how to make a better or a good game.
I think we makes games now too for money and anymore for the love of making game.
But that love cannot make you eat i know that
But if notch had make minecraft just for the money maybe every would never played at this game.
( excuse my english , in my country we talk french , but because I had watch many English video about indie dev i speak and write a lil bit )
I'm gonna make 0 also...I'm just making games I wanna play...cause MOST games nowadays are just BOOTY...
There is good games u just font know them
Something I'd like to know if these people who didn't make much. Is ahpw hard dis they work, how good are their games etc? Because the market is that staturated I feel 60-70% of games are terrible, so would that be 70% of those figures?
Upgrade those shaders man
Start search publisher...good publisher.
Just got started with Godot and trying to learn it is not easy (since I’m new to the app) but I am determined to learn it I started by creating small simple games like maybe a ping pong game and work my way there right now I have an idea for a game I’ve been wanting to create ever since i started playing stardew valley it’s basically kinda similar to valley but way different instead of it being a farming simulator it’s more of an adventure/RPG type story were you play as a young vampire who just graduated high school and got accepted into a school full of different kinds of creatures like vampires werewolf etc but I gotta learn that coding first so that’s what I’ve been doing for two weeks is learn to code and I think I’m getting good at it too be honest with you
Hey, this sounds great. Stardew Valley is an amazing game but it lacks depth and good story. The money you make doesn't do much so it's not rewarding and there is no end game or purpose other than to enlarge your farm but for no obvious reasons. So this can help with your game maybe. That being said, I also came across Godot and became interested in the idea. So now after few months, how confident are you? Do you have any background in game dev/programming? And how long do you think you need to make your dream game? I'm an IT graduate and I have very basic knowledge of programing, maybe less than basic but I understand some concepts, so how does this look from your prospective? Wish you all the best and looking forward to your update and if possibly answers to my questions.
ok
You sound soo much like Joffedy
why would you despise a goth anime girlfriend?
I thought this video was AI generated for a while.
Its not a what
Its- its not a what
I was about to give a like, but the actual number is "666" and I just don't want to be the one messing with it
Never work with a publisher if you are and indie dev! thank me later
Work with a publisher if you're an indie devs! Why? Because you trust me (yes you do) and big corps are always good. Anyway, just thank me later.
You two must be damn experienced if you're speaking with so much confidence. Care to share some of the games in your portfolio?
@@yarpen26GTA7