I've been using your methods for over a month now, and I have seen ridiculous improvements in my two blue nose pitties, in both reactivity and aggression, but I do let my dogs sleep in bed with me. I have regular night terrors and various other disorders related to sleep (among other things), and when we first got our dogs, we trained a therapy response in them to either help me calm down, or push in on me so I can feel secure and fall asleep easier. But while they do sleep in my bed, I have significantly changed my attitude with other things and have become much more serious. I do 3 out of the 4 things you recommend, but I do get them off of furniture or my bed randomly, and even just that has just attributed SO MUCH MORE to them understanding how serious I am when it matters. Your videos have singlehandedly changed my dogs lives for the better, mine too. Eternally thankful
I tried an e-collar for about a year for my reactive street-rescue rednose who definitely came from a fighting background. It didn't work and I still feel horrible about having used it. With Joel's loose leash walking method & gentle leader, it took about 2-3 months till he would finally not pull but just bark/cry when he saw a dog. Then a few days ago (so maybe 6 months) Charlie saw a dog on the other side of the street and he didn't pull nor bark nor cry. I just had to tell him Leave it. It was such a happy moment for me. Joel's methods are the best🐾❤️🐾❤️🐾❤️
@@riojimatsuoka What's the point in scolding them? Maybe they didn't know, most people don't know. Posting a judgemental comment like that does nothing but put people off to your advice.
💕To quote you in one of your past video, when you use a ecollar or prong when your dog is going crazy at something, it actually makes them more mad. “Oh I hate this dog even more” and they associate the pain you are giving them to the object that they are barking at. It made perfect sense!!!! I use your methods, gentle leader, loose lead, turn about, stop and go. Amazing change overnight walking pass all the things my Doberman would go crazy over. Thank you Joel ❤️ (thanks for clarification on sleeping in the bed. I love to snuggle at night, but I am the boss. Only can come up invited and OFF when I say off) it is all related to imprinting good behavior
I took this to heart and carefully use it as a correction when not going crazy. But that wasn't really her problen. I mainly had to have a way to train a suburban dog to behave without a fence. She is loved in the neighborhood. and can be trusted off leash in the yard. Success!
Bit funny, had my Lab/mix sleep on my bed for her full life, When it actually came down to serious sleeping we called it the "no touching rule" - If my foot, arm or any body part that touched her she would "friendly growl" at me and let me know, when she touched me I would growl back and she would move. If I insisted on teasing and touching her it was the growl followed by a yelp as to say c'mon, or she would leave the bed.
I think you have a balanced and reasonable outlook on e-collars. After much consternation and study I bought an e-collar. I use low level setting and almost solely the vibrate as a reminder that there are other possibilities to follow.
“almost solely on vibrate” is the problem. It's too easy to start ramping it up, without meaning to. How much and what setting are you using it now, 7 months later from your comment?
6 for vibrate and 7 for "stimulate" of course collars vary. 7 can make her yip and I use the wings to make sure I have consistant stimulation every time. I don't use the collar often now because she is basically trained. But if it is on her she is more responsive - that's for sure. I almost have to watch closely for the oppertunity to "stimulate".
@@cheaptick, Thanks for the information. What was it then that made you choose an e-collar? If he isn’t in the reactive spectrum, were there other behaviors that needed to be worked on? Did you train everything on an e-collar or just one or two behaviors that needed to be fixed? Does your dog also know and comply with basic commands on a regular collar and leash? Do you take him/her out in public or take a walk where there might be dogs and people he might encounter? Is he a guy-boi” (as Joel would say) taking walks on a regular collar and leash? Do you do any of the specialty sports with your dog?
I use a sportdog e-collar, only on my 1 1/2 yr old Gr Pyrenees/pitbull/catahoula leopard dog mix. She can get so excited she loses her mind. We only use the beep tone. No zapping or vibration. She responds well to the beep.Doesnt wear it all day.She has good recall now(from the [fenced] backyard, where she used to play the game of, ok I'll come in, gets to the door and runs off again). I'd never take her anywhere off leash, even with that e collar on.She sleeps in her crate every nite. Couldn't trust her to stay on the bed all nite, she'd sneak down and get into something. My other rescue, @ 5 yr old pitbull/chihuahua mix, is very trustworthy and so I do have her sleep with me. We both feel safer that way. She does have a crate too and is crate trained. Lastly, my geriatric female chihuahua, 15 yrs, sleeps in her crate every nite.
Hi man, I thought this would be the perfect opportunity for me to comment on one of your videos. I have recently got a 4 months old Cane Corso puppy. This is the 5th dog I've trained, (I owned a golden retriever back when I was living with my parents, and trained 4 rottweilers for my dad). Needless to say, I love dog training. I have watched all the guides and courses out there, and I think your method is the most efficient, and healthiest one so far. But you nail the most important part at the end of this video. Being a serious person makes the biggest difference. I've had minor issues with all the dogs I trained so far, mostly because of other people who were involved like my parents. Now I live in my own place, married and have a 3 year old autistic son. Today is my 5th day with my Cane Corso puppy. He is a serious dog, but extremely loyal and obeys me %100 of the time. He is already potty and crate trained, and responds to my recall even when he has a bone. Not because I have done the "go get method" yet (too young for it), but because I seriously mean it when I call him. I also advised my wife that this is a breed we could not go wrong with, and she follows the same methods. And so far we have had an amazing experience with the pup. Not because I have followed your guides step by step, but because I learn more about the mindset of a good trainer around dogs. I appreciate you a lot, thanks to you, we are already on our way to have the perfect dog (he is already helping my son so much to make him communicate more), and also our dog is very happy and balanced. Cheers.
Hey man, I also just got a corso, same age. She was a little difficult to potty train, but she good with, down, sit, stay, heel, until we get distracted by 4h animals, but we are working on that. I bought an e collar but have not used it. I really had it to correct her with digging or barking at people in the park next to our house. She has not started barking at folks yet, so I think I won't use the e collar(vibrate) until later. I don't think she will need the shock.
As a balanced trainer! I am disgusted at the misuse of ,what should be a simple communication tool....I teach wolfdogs with e-collars and never have to use a high setting
I've got a rule about corrections: they can't hurt the dog more than they hurt themselves while playing. High level e-collars are abuse, plain and simple. If you're in a situation that you have to light the dog up, you're at fault for putting the dog in a situation it's not ready for.
Most people lack timing. That is not such a bad thing if you mistime a treat or verbal correction. It is a big deal if you are shocking a dog. Very few people with dogs and frankly very few trainers have perfect timing. If you cannot train a dog without shocking it you need to go back to dog training school.
Omg how did people ever manage before the days of electrocuting their dogs. Wtf try a shout/ loudly whistle ...or if that bothers you. Why TF did u allow your dog that far away from you
@@TheSebiestor for what it's worth, I don't have an ecollar, pinch, or chain collar. A quick noise on my part gets his attention, and he mostly listens. Still a pup at 7 months. And we're on 40 acres, possible he may be 1/4 mile away working cows... Our bond and mutual trust and respect goes a long way...
Larry Krohn is pretty widely known as an ecollar trainer. He openly has a name for trainers that shock dogs on high stim and call it training. “Asshole” That said, I love my ecollar for recall but rarely have to use it to get recall. Shocking a reactive dog definitely won’t help it become stable. My current dog got better under a regimen of exposure, play, obedience, and corrections. Definitely some advice from Joel worked in the mix because I use an ecollar, but don’t aspire to be an ecollar jockey.
As Larry has in his book. Once the dog is properly conditioned to the e-collar the level of stimulation should be stepped up an appropriate amount to avoid the slow progression to higher and higher levels of Asshole.
I've used a remote E-Collar on lowest setting and also vibrate with great success.. For chasing cars, jumping on my parked cars, running into the road, jumping fences. It only took a few times and the correction was successful and collar came off, never to be used again.. But I do notice on occasion my dog giving me the stink eye when I pick up the remote to the tv.. lol..
Thats why you should have not even shown him the remote or made it seem like it was you that did it. Just let the dog think that when it did something stupid something not fun happens.
"The best dog training is the dog training that actually gets done." Some people skip the work and jump straight to e-collars (shock collars). Maybe they are 'work-shy'? or "too busy"? to make the effort to train their dogs. As Joel has said before, you've got to put in the work. (paraphrased)
Training should never be punitive to the point of causing pain! It’s not called training. It’s called torture! E-collars are a great tool to communicate when the your dog from a distance but never to punish wth pain! 😔
Joel - thank you so much for your channel! We cannot thank you enough. This is the best channel on youtube for minute-by-minute education for dog owners.
Could you do a video explaining reactivity and aggression vs typical dog excitement or frustration? My dog is big and very social so we go to the dog park a lot, and I see a lot of wild things! Tbh, it seems like most of the owners have 0 control over their dogs. Let's just say, I keep a close eye on things!
Great job getting to the real points. On point about e-collars. Have seen the full spectrum of e-collar trainers and its horrendous usage end of the spectrum. Thanks for the balanced approach. Comparisons to how you treat a child to dog training really helps the layman understand. CONSISTANCY is so important. I am a 74 year old woman who has trained dogs for 30 years in various disciplines. Hate to say it but the tortuous use of e-collars in the field training world by poor trainers makes me really upset....would like to put the e-collar on their private parts to let them feel what is is like.....
@@rachelm7525 What kind of dog and issue do you have with your dog? Check out Leopardstar 600s comment - he has a good take on collars. As Spam Sucker commented - it is a tool and is really subject to the talent and understanding and philosophy of the trainer. My issue is that it is very easy to, even with the best intentions, end up not using it correctly and not in the best interest of the dog and your relationship as opposed to the ego of the trainer or owner.
@@cassiemunga1 we have a 14 month-old Mini Schnauzer who's what Joel calls 'an out-front dog.' He frequently pulls like a steam-train, his recall is weak, though improving with work, and he's totally obsessed with other dogs. He won't come back if there's another dog on the field, he runs up to them. I see all these as part of the same problem: he's not reliant enough on us. Impatient and excited, like most youngsters, he kind of ignores us. I wouldn't use an e-collar, and they're soon to be made illegal here in the UK, anyway.
@@rachelm7525 you're not giving structure to your dog, plain and simple. You need to seek help of a trainer like Joel, or give your best to understand his videos and put them into action, not just watching them for entertainment.
I have an e-collar and have yet to use it. However, an E-collar is just an invisible leash and I've used it on myself to know what level it will be on and it will NEVER go above 5 even though the instructions say to start on 10 (it goes to 99) and that's if I ever use it
Here in the UK, (pre-Covid), since 2018, the government were, and still are, planning to ban e-collars, a move backed by the British Kennel Club. They are illegal in Wales. To be fair, I've never seen one, but I would not consider inflicting pain, if that's what they do, as a legitimate training method. 😏
@@rachelm7525 A woman I met who has used them told me that those e-collars do inflict pain, and they do so until the dog starts exhibitig the behaviours they want. After that the thing is dialed down and the dog gets just a vibrating, warning, buzz. But the dog has to wear that e-collar his whole entire life afterwards.
Tom Davis uses vibrator e-collars not shocks which is an important note, people hear e-collar and they don't stop to ask what it does. Tom Davis very successful and knows his stuff, I watch him as well as Beckmans
Tom Davis is the real deal. He used tools in clear, fair, and humane way. He is very effective at sorting out reactivity and aggression issues and teaching owners how to communicate with their dogs in a way that dogs understand.
Joel, as a fellow trainer, I use e-collars, prong collars, slip leads, gentle leaders etc. The 2 examples that you gave made me livid. That is not e-collar training that is torture. I have 5 dogs as I have posted before. My dogs know what the e-collars are about. When I bring them out the dogs go into a happy dance. Why. because the collars mean we are going to do something, car ride, go to the park, training, car ride for the treats, they get to meet new people. In other words, over- all the collars represent something positive. I seldom need to use the stim on any level. My corrections are done 80% on the vibe setting.
One problem with e-collars "not working" are because of tick fur. Low voltages won't make through it, so the owner raises the voltage until he gets some response from the dog, which would be when the extremely high voltage shocking the dog as the dog moves and the electrodes touch the skin through the fur. This is lack of expetience and knowledge on how to use the tool.
Well Larry Krohn is already doing it. He is trying to clean up the misuse of the e-collar. Because it's a great thing in the right hands. But when I hear, that the trainer had to use the strongest e-collar... this is insane.... If the trainer can't punish the dog without any extra tools, he is a bad trainer.
Misuse of the ecollar is shit training So is misuse of the gentle leader..yanking on a dogs neck and potentially causing injury/stress in the vertebrae of the neck is also not great training either. Obedience training is under rated for behaviour issues.
Good reminder Joel. I really like the 4 points for reactive dogs (no jumping when you get home, no pulling you down the street, make sure your dog comes when called, no sleeping on the bed). With freezing cold weather in the midwest and icy sidewalks I've been lax on walks to try to get everything over with as quickly as possible. But, it's time to get more serious so our dog is less likely to react.
Snuggling with my Aussie in bed is my favorite part of the day. Thank you so much for clarifying your reasoning. I had wondered why you had that prohibition, and now I can stop feeling guilty about my choice. As a rescue with several previous owners, he finds comfort in that quiet time together, as do I. Thank you for being the voice of reason in an increasingly unreasonable world.
Our 5 dogs stay outside during the day in their 1 acre backyard unless the weather is too extreme. They are sometimes so filthy even just the thought of them sleeping in our bed makes me cringe. They aren't allowed on any furniture whatsoever. It would be ruined within a week. They have their own Kuranda beds, an indoor set and an outdoor set that they love. Those are their beds. Comfy, easy to clean. They also have their own room where they sleep together. Zero reason for them to be on human furniture.
i've used, and still using (now 99% for precaution) e-collar for recall. it allowed my dog to run freely in the field with me being confident she will always come back. we couldn't reach that level without an e-collar. IF USED CORRECTLY it is a great tool
Same with my dog! He was great on a 100ft longline, but the second you took it off, he was basically like f you and wouldn't listen. Got him ecollar trained and now he's off leash all the time (where it's safe to)
My dog uses it for recall also. I have 26 acres we hike on daily, i have 3 Catahoula dogs. They are all free to run, chase and play. 1 dog will not return if shes on a scent. I can now just hit vibrate, watch her turn to come back, give her a big YES, a treat, a free dog command and were off again. It is so nice to see her make the decision to return to me, and then go back to playing. It has been a great tool. I watched Larry Krohn's videos on humane e collar use and have rarely need to use any level higher than her working level. She is safe to play and im secure that she will not leave my property. A win -win.
E collar saved my dog....I only use the beep or vibrant festure to get my dog to listen to my commands...only use the shock if she jumps on people after i her off. Or when she runs into the street
@@caseymackey746 thats great !! But the problem is...MOST people don't read Larry Krohns book....and most dont do any basic obedience training BEFORE using an ECollar..Most people are using them incorrectly....and for punishment......KUDOS to you ...for using it correctly.!!!
I'm glad you make your stances on e collars so clear. After making an effort to watch stuff from force free trainers, balanced traners and the aversive trainers, I have also come to the same conclusion as you. E collars aren't inherently bad. It's a tool. The people misusing them at high levels make me so angry and it's abuse. It's like the pencil. You can use it for its intended use as a writing pencil. Or you can use it to harm others like John Wick, which is not the intended use.
I have in the past used e collar on one of my dogs to correct stock and wildlife chasing(deer), not only did I test it out on myself first,but I was also trained by my trainer how and when to use it,you cant use them after the fact,as its then a punishment, its all about timing a wee zap or beep just before the behaviour (and that takes a lot of work,observation and consistency) after a few months he didn't chase the same and I could stop him if needed with a firm "leave it" command. Never better demonstrated by working a drive on a pheasant shoot he put up 3 roe deer that had been sitting tight,he turned his head to look back at me ,I saw his body tense for the chase,and shouted "LEAVE IT" and he did just that( some of the trained gundogs took up the chase but not him ,I was sooooooo proud of him (he was a Doberman by the way )
Mr.Beckman: I watch a ton of your videos and have some input personally on E-collars for people who plan to use or buy one themselves. I have a 9 month old corgi, we live on 7 acres and have deer that roam onto the property. She minds very well until she sees deer and I tried everything to call her off of them. Basically I was afraid she would run off or run in the road as she wouldn't "leave it" or "come" when she saw a deer. I bought a cheap E-collar to see if that would work and found out it went from barely feeling a shock to oh my god get this thing off me, so i returned it and spent 200 on a good one. Its a dogtra 280c. I only use it on a very low setting, 10 out of 100+. You can't even feel it shock when you have the prongs in your palm but its enough to get her attention and now she recalls perfectly even when chasing things she shouldn't. I still have alot to learn but thought I'd share of my experience if anyone is looking into getting one. I personally think you should subject your own self to the collar if you plan on putting one on your dog so you get an idea of what you are subjecting them to. D
Again, very well stated. Be extremely mindful on what type of dog you put an eCollar on. We had a case nearby where they accidentally messed up a very sensitive hunting dog with the lowest vibration setting. The dog completely freaked out and lost all trust in his handler. It might be rare, but if you notice your dog has a "thin skin" - maybe try other methods that take more time and effort (e.g. training it to pipe commands like sheepherders do)
Hi Joel, I’ve always had one or more dogs and have never wanted them to sleep with me. I’m with you on collars something that’s definitely not for me. Keep up the good work.
Love all your videos. Been watching them and they have helped a lot. I have a 10 month old Doberman who does almost everything perfect (good recall, does trick training, plays with other dogs well, etc). Her one vice is car aggression. I’ve tried distraction method. I haven’t seen a video specifically on car aggression. Are you able to do a video explaining why they do it and how to correct it?
Our German shepherd had similar experience at board and train. I wish I would have known how they were using the E collar. When we went to pick him up their instructions were if he doesn't listen just keep increasing the shock until he does. Absolutely horrible. Not to mention they do 3 months board and train!! I wish we knew what we know now. Our dog is still struggling with dog reactivity and basically came back the same as he was before. I'm thankful to have found your videos as they have helped SO much. Thank you for posting this information. Our dog had been in training starting at 3 months per recommendation of a very well known trainer in our area. After watching your developmental video I am convinced we caused his issues. Breaks my heart so much. Again, thank you for putting this info out there so mistakes can be avoided.
We had our Mini Schnauzer from 8 weeks, and he slept in a crate. I slept on the kitchen floor for a few nights to help him settle, after that, he was fine. Now he's in a bed in the living-room, he absolutely does not sleep in our bed. We have a cat, and that's her half of the house! 🙂
This opinions very misinformed. The ecollars just a tool for positive punishment and negative reinforcement. Just like a leash. The level is dictated by what gets a good response from the dog...
And here is a comment from a person who knows what they are talking about. If you know , you know. Last thing I would support is ANY kind of abuse. Training with a tool only
…makes it bad if the intention comes from the wrong place. Be informed, learn your craft and adjust to each individual case you are working with! Use common sense and your well intended instincts. The rest will fall in place.
This is so true, so many people have this one-sided mindset and don't realize that no matter what you support; there are always corrupted and incorrect representations of those things you support. The healthiest and best thing you can do to support your cause is to reinforce and fight within your circle to create what you are trying to put forth. In terms of dogs in bed, I am exactly the same as you, I dislike them being in my bed or on my couch and I feel some of my friends are skeptical I am a dog lover because of it. They let their dogs jump on them, get on the sofa and bed, and practically drug or tie up the dog to bathe it. At the end of the day, out of my group of friends, I am the one who makes healthy chicken soups and takes my dogs on hikes, I am the one who makes sure my dogs vet appointments are up to date with the deserved care needed, and I have no issues bathing them or getting them to listen. Just because I don't cuddle them constantly and let them lick my face and eat out of my plate doesn't make me less of a dog lover, but it really makes me doubt myself sometimes.
I am not a dog expert. Had dogs for 27 years. From day one the dog is in my house it starts walking with me around the place on a regular collar and regular leash. I am pretty much against harnesses, prong collars and e-collars. These are not tools for building a bond or a relationship with an animal.
I guess it depends on the dog. My dog will turn on a dime with my whistle. I’ve never seen herding dogs who respond to the slightest signal without ever using an e-collar. If the e-collar is needed to save the life of a dog or protect family members, I’m ok with that. I don’t think it’s the first line for recall though. I don’t let my dogs jump on me or pull- but I have CPTSD and my first dog sleeps at the very corner of the bed facing the door. When I travel it is what helps me sleep. My other pup sleeps in her crate. This dog is serious. But he had been attacked and so have I with loose dogs running up to me. I can control him and keep him in check but I’m ok with him as is.
Honestly I think that's probably the best approach in most cases. The point he makes in the video seems to be using making them get off the bed as an opportunity to teach obedience so IMO as long as they aren't resource guarding the bed, it probably doesn't matter all that much where they sleep (usually) . I am the same way as you, I let my dog sleep on my bed if he wants and I feel like it, but if I say off, I expect him to get off. I also have a cue for him to jump up on the furniture. The main point is that your dog listens. He also clarifies that that policy is for reactive dogs which is fair.
I used to be completely against e collars because I have seen them used incorrectly so many times. I thought this once the only way it was used. However, one of my other dog trainer friends showed me how to condition a dog to it correctly on extremely low level at a level we humans can barely feel and sometimes not feel at all. I believe in 100% responsibility for dog owners. This is why I train recalls with e collars but I never start the behavior on an e collar. Its always follows the comprehension of the command with the e collar as a low level wireless leash . I have had an off leash dog run up to me when I was working an aggressive dog that was muzzled. I told the person to recall their dog and they did but the dog did not listen and it could have ended pretty bad if I did not body block. If the owner had an e collar then the moment the dog makes the decision to say no you have the reinforcement to say excuse me yes you will. Humanly and safely. But not many people know how to do it right and it can create huge problems. I agree there is a reason why you dont zap the crap out of a dog legit not every dog can deal with that much direct pressure nor is it healthy
Thanks for addressing this. I noticed that you liked my comment about e-collar in another video and it's so good that you've addressed this. I use e-collars in my dogs, but at the lowest voltage possible, and I use it responsibly. I tested the e-collar on me before using it in my dogs, so I'd suggest that everyone does the same. If you don't have the courage to test it on you, you shouldn't be using it. One of my three dogs used to escape through the fence. I've corrected her from distance only a single time, at the right moment and intensity, and she never tried to blindly escape like she did, and I never had to.correct her again since.
I've learned over the years that you need to train the dog in front of you, some dogs need an e-collar, others don't. You should never "light up" a dog with the e-collar though, as you said, or I think you said, "that's abuse". The collar is meant to grab the dog's attention not hurt the dog. I used to think all e-collars and the people who used them were "bad", I thankfully now know better!
I train dogs with ecollars They are great tools that can be easily misused I really dislike when some ppl just go "oh this dog must be trained this way only and nothing else can be implemented". One of my personal dogs is too sensitive for an ecollar even tho she is big dog with thick fur and seemingly tough personality. And I'm fine with it. I trained her with a beeping collar (I forgot the brand. Its tiny collar attachment that beeps and that's it) and it's just enough for her to get her attention off leash For other dogs I use ecollar as clicker. The beeping sound is used as clicker and I can't imagine not using it this way, when dog is far away it gives them instant reward if they can't hear me I also have retrained dogs that were abused with ecollars. It's horrifying seeing dogs that are affraid of having something put on their necks and owners making their dogs yelp. I go hardest at those uneducated abusers, they are the problem, they make normal trainers look bad Ecollars aren't fix it all tools, opposed to what many ppl think, they are amazing in correct hands and I definetly wouldn't recommend them to average pet owner without training
Great topic. In my opinion, there are way too many people who use e-collar, or prongs, as a "quick" and "easy" way to get the dog to function as they want. Just because, and I know I sound prejudicial here, they do not want to be actually engaged in training their dog. Whether they do not have the time, the motivation, the patience or whatever. And some trainers, even well-known ones contribute to it by opting for an e-collar, or prong, after getting to know the dog for a few minutes. And this without telling the owners, at least not shown in their YT-videos, that with the use of such tools also comes responsibility and sensitivity for proper use. That said, I know there are dogs out there that can be helped a lot with these tools. Perhaps some kind of e-collar driver's license could help. But then there needs to be some kind of warning label for such products in their merchandise stores like "you need to have training first before you can buy this product - for the sake of your dog", or something. No offense, they can be useful tools for some cases but should never be the first thing to do. Anyway, I am glad that Joel does not use such tools and shows us viewers different ways to deal with certain problems. Thanks for this!
If you think using a popping method to control a dog is less harmful, especially while using the gentle leader, you're not thinking too clearly. Is the popping method wrong to do, absolutely not. Can people abuse that method also, absolutely. Do they need a "license" to own or walk their own dog? That's ridiculous. Do you have any real experience with a prong collar or an ecollar, or have you just gathered an opinion from the divers hearsay? With a prong collar one has to apply very little force/pressure as compared with any other tool, except the e-collar of course that gives a stimulation.
I am a veterinarian, and I use E collars on my own dogs. However, a properly fitted and used E collar should never cause burns or skin damage - even at high level corrections. I almost went off on a so-called trainer who came in with one of my fearful patients and was getting ready to light the dog up if she showed fear (growled) when I approached. The dog was TERRIFIED. I gave that trainer a hard look and told him not to shock the dog. Too many people use the E collar as a quick fix instead of what it really is - an extension of your training.
All collars are tools. All tools need to be used in the right circumstances. I've seen some amazing work done with ecollars, for recall mainly which cuts off the reactiveness/stock worrying. But it's the user not the tool when things go wrong. All collars can also be used as impliments of torture in the wrong hands. Thanks Joel. Keep 'em coming.
I purchased a 2 dog ecollar kit from dogtra for the purpose of off leash recall and maybe some dog reactivity under the right and safe circumstances. I pursued this after me and my older dog were playing in the backyard around dusk and she took off when she saw the nightly group of deer walking around my neighbor's house. She chased them to the road luckily stopping at the road. I'd never forgive myself if something happened badly.
Nope. If you need an ecollar then youre not taking the time to learn and understand your dog. Youre also using pain to control a behaviour rather than training the dog out of it. Im not going to say more because I have a strong opinion on this subject. What I will say is that the Royal society for the protection of animals - in many commonwealth countries - wants them banned. They are already illegal in a number of states in my country (Australia). Bottom line - a good trainer can train even a difficult dog without an e-collar. If you cant do the same then you need to either not train dogs or find a trainer who can.
@@tileux Thank you for your restraint on what can be a very emotive subject. But concentrating on the misuse of ecollars ( causing pain) does not cover the whole subject. The professionals and respectful trainers who use these tools do so at a level of vibration ( not pain or shock) that a human cannot even feel. It is used as a reminder to pay attention much like the lead and collar but it can be used at a distance. In some cases this tool is chosen as the best way to correct a badly trained dog ( and human handler). I hope Joel doesn't mind me posting a link to an ecollar being used correctly by a professional. He is Tom Davis demonstrating it's proper use on a problem dog. It's a 17 minute lesson. I urge you to watch it to gain more information of this tool. th-cam.com/video/WtXrEfQvR6I/w-d-xo.html As to causing pain or suffering to any animal for any reason ; Ban the human. For life. Personally, I'd like to be get more radical with the punishment but I'm not allowed to cause humans pain either.
I let my dogs sleep in the bed, but they only come if I invite them. They also have to get off in 3 seconds sharp if I say so. Same goes to the sofa. I think if a dogs passes these to tests, coming to the bed only if invited (because they know they need an invitation) and getting off as soon as you say it, it's ok for them to sleep on the bed.
Started watching your vids for trying to train/indroduce a dog I found. (2 yr old Boxer mix). Grew up with labs and currently have a 9yr old lab and have used e collars on hunting dogs. On my hunting dogs the ecollar is/was rarely needed to 'shock' the dog. If it was done it was because it strayed to far and was shocked at a low setting if at all for the 'beeper' sound would usually do the trick. Have yet to use the ecollar on the 'new' rescue dog, but may depending on how well the 'come' commands go. Thanks for the video(s).
Agree with you on the misuse of e collars. I happen to use an e collar on every board and train. Now, that doesn’t mean I use an e collar as a cure for every issue a dog may have. I have personally had a few dogs with VERY intense small animal prey drive. You typically can’t correct this with an e collar. I have had great success with a Halti head collar for this issue. An e collar is just a tool. Similar to food. It’s just a tool. I don’t use a hammer when I need a screwdriver. Use the appropriate tool (dog has a lot of say in this) for the particular issue….. However, the relationship you have with your dog will help you more than any tool to correct/manage most issues.
I wish all of us dog trainers can just get on the same page. You advise the use against e.collars while another very great youtube trainer uses e.collar training in most of their work. For new dog trainers like myself, this sort of thing can get very confusing. Use an e. collar, no use a front lead harness, no use a prong, no use a chain, actually you dont need tools....ugh! So frustrating! At the end of the day can we all just do what is best for the dog even if that requires a tool? Ive used tools and e collars and treats etc and if you use them correctly the dog is just fine. Sometimes we are fighting against eachother more than we are fighting against the purely positive...this training thing is a constant damn fight.
It's not the tools! It's the people - trainers and owners! Give a powerful car to a learner driver - chances are it'll be pronged! Give a high powered piece of any equipment to the average owner and ... sadly you're talking about 'pranging' a living being .....
I sent my dog to board and train, and the trainer used an ecollar responsibly. She never put it full blast or even half way. It was super successful but I decided I don't really like the ecollar that much so I used other methods when I got him back and use the ecollar for off leash hiking or anywhere he is off leash where he might get too far for from me or see a moose or that type of thing. I agree with your stance on ecollars, your opinion is the same one I have. I just personally prefer other ways to train, though. But glad I got a responsible trainer who didn't fry his brains. That would be horrible! I didn't even know that was a thing with trainers.
You should be familiar with jeff gellman’s work before talk about anything about ecollar. You don’t have enough experience on it! You are the new PP/FF lol
As someone that uses low level stim, and even high stim on occasion, i 100% agree with you. These ecollar jockeys that use that button out of frustration are the WORST. There is a time and place for high stim, and its not when your dog looks the wrong way. Im no professional dog trainer, and i learn more every day. But i do have an off leash trained, social Caucasian Shepherd, so i feel like i did at least something right. Oh, and you disregarded the natural heirarchy and then said that you respect and utilize the heirarchy. The "alpha" idea has been abused, but being "serious" is the exact same thing as putting yourself at the top of the heirarchy, AKA "alpha."
I used an "e-collar" on VIBRATE and BEEP-BEEP mode only to "HELP" with re-call at the park! After calling I'd give him a few seconds to look at me and if he ignored me, I'd give him a BEEP which acted like a tap on the shoulder....it didn't take long and I don't need it any more!
Lol, i didn't have to use E/shock collar to stop counter surfing, i used an universal Beckman's technique which worked for everything so i didn't have to address every single behaviour, it worked for counter surfing, jumping, biting, aggression, nipping, snapping/biting hard shaking the soft skin areas, barking/ growling and following everywhere around the house, everything disappeared in 1 session. It was a tecbique of his mixed with one of mines, i put that together and miracles acocured, this man is a real genius. For what concerns the topic i'm with him for what concerns the bed, bedroom, couch, armchairs, I'm not for E/shock/choke/prong collars especially if used by trainers or privates as if there was no tomorrow for every little stupid thing and command (how to set up things to completely screw your dog). I'm more traditional with some positive reinforcement there.
I don't think there is a need for shock collars in domesticated dogs or animals. One other thing that not many dog trainers focus or talk about is the negative health effects of using the shock collars, rather than what we see in the surface. I talked to a holistic vet and this is what he said that change my mind about using this tool many years ago: th-cam.com/video/sqPZu3hSG1I/w-d-xo.html
Dogs on beds is an example of drawing boundaries. Our lab goes absolutely nuts after eating, parading around with his biggest cutest toy to earn our attention. My partner cannot even feign "seriousness" - she says the words without conviction. Consequently the dog (flush with his meal - blood coursing with carrot and pumpkin sugars with nowhere to go) climbs all over her and humps her after his dinner. You have to find your inner sargent major - and we all know they are all bark ... don't we?
Caught myself thinking the way Joel instructs his staff when letting the dogs meet. My thoughts were like this: "Let's go plush fox first then yellow treat ball next" 😂 Was editing dog toy advertisements.
Just want to make a comment regarding the e-collar issue. I so appreciate Joel's comments on them, but maybe the EU collar manufacturers should take some responsibility with their product and adjust the level so it is not able to go high enough to cause cruelty/damage to the dog. Hello??? Common sense maybe??
I have no problem with my dogs in my bed, however they dont sleep with me. The pup jumps/sort of when i get home, the older doesnt. None of them pulls, one is always of leash, the pup is under "training". The older comes when called, the pup, stops when i say halt, he doesnt understand "here" yet - calling back is gonna start this spring. The oldest is a rescue dog, i got him without any training at the age of three, he is now, "fully trained". The pup is a pedigree, which i hope to be "fully trained" at 2 years.
My malinois-husky mix is really stubborn and she just won't accept the leash, to the point I start the training and she pulls, she jumps and screams like someone is beating her to death and I am not exaggerating (Huskies are scream experts). I have neighbors and I am scared someone will call the police for animal abuse, even though I am not hurting her in any way. I stopped using the leash on her but I don't like this bad teenage behavior. Can i use the e-collar during leash training just to stop her stubbornness and disrespect? And how can i do it correctly? Thank you! (I have e-collars for recalls, cause we have a large field for running and playing. Nowdays, I only use the beeping sound of the e-collar for recall.)
As one of the people that schit on you for one of your last vid's rant on remote collars, I think you for your partial clarification. However, following what you are trying to say, you can't blame the collar itself for being misused. Nor can you say it's the responsibility of remote collar users/trainers to police bad trainers that use remote collars. That's ridiculous. We don't all belong to some secret club and we don't all know one another personally. That's like asking a black person if they know another black person just because they're black! These schitty trainers are individuals and like all areas of society, there are bad apples. You wouldn't blame every dog of a certain breed if one dog of that breed bit you, would you? And again, the remote collar stimulation has no physical effect on the brain. Again, if the dog is psychologically messed up, it's due to bad training experiences, if the case is as in your examples. Any a**hole can screw up an animal psychologically with any training tool or with no training tool at all. It's the individual at the other end of the tool that can be the problem. I really like your training vid's and you've got some very valuable insight to share. I just wish you'd not generalize and point fingers. Thanks and best wishes. Bert
My trainer for basic obedience sprung the use of eCollars on us at the 9th of 10 group sessions, while swigging beer from a can in front of his class... He was promoting the use of an collar with multiple 'electrodes' to prevent development of resistant scar tissue forming on the dogs neck at the site of the electrodes. Unbelievable.
e-collars; as with all tools can be abused, this is true. I was taught by a balanced trainer how to use one for low-stim communication training. Using an e-collar gave my GSD immediate unhindered off-leash time as it provided a safety net if ever he put himself in danger. 5 years later & I still equip one to this day, doesn't really get used, but it's there if I need it. It's a wonderful tool in trained hands.
Shock collars can create fear, anxiety and aggression in your dog toward you or other animals. While they may suppress unwanted behavior, they do not teach a dog what you would like them to do instead and therefore should not be used
I agree with you 100%% about letting my dog sleep or jumping on the bed. He only stays on his own bed below next to me and it help with training him to not jump on furnitures too
I have a few questions, I want to get a puppy but I worry I wont have enough time to train and properly exercise the dog. How much time does it really take each day to train and exercise a puppy to fully grow dog? I work everyday and the dog would be home each day with my wife and kids but I want to make sure if I get a dog I have time to make sure those things get done.
E collars work if used appropriately, they have a very limited and specific use case and can accomplish things that are otherwise not possible. I agree that you never need to light up a dog.
My dog is reactive to other dogs and people (in certain scenarios). Just booted her out of the bed tonight. Man is she playing the pitiful card. she'd be on suicide watch if human.
Wear the e-collar yourself and test it on its different settings. If you feel like you wouldn't inflict a certain level on a disobedient child, don't inflict it on your dog. And remember, dogs are more sensitive than we are.
Make one of your insight full posts about the horrible thing that happened in Florida at that rescue. You have clearly described this type of things. Also, so much agree about the ones who basically electrocute the dog..... I have seen people do that.
Oh and in addition, of course the dog owners need to take responsibility when they are deciding to use this type of device on their pet. Maybe think about how they would feel about a high level shock on their neck??
A E-collar should only be used on a mid-high level for life and death situations such as the Buufo toad which is toxic or other toxic animals that your dog would ignore you to try and catch, and counter surfing to eat toxic foods.
My pup's breeder and children allowed her in the beds. :( It took me two nights to get her sleeping on her own bed in my room (the second nite I threw my old fleece dog walking jacket on her bed and she slept all nite without a whimper.) When she was 18mnths old I allowed her to sit on the outdoor lounge for the first time - I'll never forget her disbelief lol, and she loves it when I sit there with her watching the chickens. She will never be allowed on the indoor lounge. I've never used a e-collar, but I have seen some great work by others using them in the correct way. Recently, a show aired in Australia titled Muster Dogs. The trainers used garden rakes to train the dogs to keep their distance from the stock.
Yes Muster Dog's was a great show!! The rakes are intended to be an extension of your arm. They like other tools ie vocal inflection, body language, leash correction, create pressure to interupt a behaviour or redirect the dog. The kelpies were awesome🤗🐾💚
@@bordercolliesdownunder7245 They really were amazing! I use a palm frond stem as a barrier when rounding up my chooks, to keep my dog walking slowly behind them. When i drop the frond she runs up and makes sure they are all in their house. lol
If you’ve ever been to a dog park you would see dogs off leash, happy and having a great time. Wether they have a dumb owner or not let dogs be dogs to many rules are not going to give you a happy dog. I’ve raised all types of breeds and a mutual respect must be attained you don’t need e collars and slip leashes to make a dog listen and understand . Try a little common sense dogs deserve that
My dog has 3 beds. His kennel, his bed in my den, and his bed in my bedroom. He is not allowed in my bed or on my furniture. He has rules and he knows them.
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I've been using your methods for over a month now, and I have seen ridiculous improvements in my two blue nose pitties, in both reactivity and aggression, but I do let my dogs sleep in bed with me. I have regular night terrors and various other disorders related to sleep (among other things), and when we first got our dogs, we trained a therapy response in them to either help me calm down, or push in on me so I can feel secure and fall asleep easier. But while they do sleep in my bed, I have significantly changed my attitude with other things and have become much more serious. I do 3 out of the 4 things you recommend, but I do get them off of furniture or my bed randomly, and even just that has just attributed SO MUCH MORE to them understanding how serious I am when it matters. Your videos have singlehandedly changed my dogs lives for the better, mine too. Eternally thankful
Pitts are special dogs with the ability to help humans in unimaginable ways
I tried an e-collar for about a year for my reactive street-rescue rednose who definitely came from a fighting background. It didn't work and I still feel horrible about having used it. With Joel's loose leash walking method & gentle leader, it took about 2-3 months till he would finally not pull but just bark/cry when he saw a dog. Then a few days ago (so maybe 6 months) Charlie saw a dog on the other side of the street and he didn't pull nor bark nor cry. I just had to tell him Leave it. It was such a happy moment for me. Joel's methods are the best🐾❤️🐾❤️🐾❤️
You don't use an ecollar on a dog that's fearful. You should have known this. That dog needed behaviour modification.
@@riojimatsuoka What's the point in scolding them? Maybe they didn't know, most people don't know. Posting a judgemental comment like that does nothing but put people off to your advice.
💕To quote you in one of your past video, when you use a ecollar or prong when your dog is going crazy at something, it actually makes them more mad. “Oh I hate this dog even more” and they associate the pain you are giving them to the object that they are barking at. It made perfect sense!!!! I use your methods, gentle leader, loose lead, turn about, stop and go. Amazing change overnight walking pass all the things my Doberman would go crazy over. Thank you Joel ❤️ (thanks for clarification on sleeping in the bed. I love to snuggle at night, but I am the boss. Only can come up invited and OFF when I say off) it is all related to imprinting good behavior
I took this to heart and carefully use it as a correction when not going crazy. But that wasn't really her problen. I mainly had to have a way to train a suburban dog to behave without a fence. She is loved in the neighborhood. and can be trusted off leash in the yard. Success!
Bit funny, had my Lab/mix sleep on my bed for her full life, When it actually came down to serious sleeping we called it the "no touching rule" - If my foot, arm or any body part that touched her she would "friendly growl" at me and let me know, when she touched me I would growl back and she would move. If I insisted on teasing and touching her it was the growl followed by a yelp as to say c'mon, or she would leave the bed.
0:00 - Ecollars
5:10 - Dog sleeping in bed
I think you have a balanced and reasonable outlook on e-collars. After much consternation and study I bought an e-collar. I use low level setting and almost solely the vibrate as a reminder that there are other possibilities to follow.
“almost solely on vibrate” is the problem. It's too easy to start ramping it up, without meaning to. How much and what setting are you using it now, 7 months later from your comment?
6 for vibrate and 7 for "stimulate" of course collars vary. 7 can make her yip and I use the wings to make sure I have consistant stimulation every time. I don't use the collar often now because she is basically trained. But if it is on her she is more responsive - that's for sure. I almost have to watch closely for the oppertunity to "stimulate".
My dog didn't really fall into the reactive spectrum.
@@cheaptick, Thanks for the information. What was it then that made you choose an e-collar? If he isn’t in the reactive spectrum, were there other behaviors that needed to be worked on? Did you train everything on an e-collar or just one or two behaviors that needed to be fixed? Does your dog also know and comply with basic commands on a regular collar and leash? Do you take him/her out in public or take a walk where there might be dogs and people he might encounter? Is he a guy-boi” (as Joel would say) taking walks on a regular collar and leash? Do you do any of the specialty sports with your dog?
@@User7688.--_ Effective communication. Selective hearing.
I use a sportdog e-collar, only on my 1 1/2 yr old Gr Pyrenees/pitbull/catahoula leopard dog mix. She can get so excited she loses her mind. We only use the beep tone. No zapping or vibration. She responds well to the beep.Doesnt wear it all day.She has good recall now(from the [fenced] backyard, where she used to play the game of, ok I'll come in, gets to the door and runs off again). I'd never take her anywhere off leash, even with that e collar on.She sleeps in her crate every nite. Couldn't trust her to stay on the bed all nite, she'd sneak down and get into something. My other rescue, @ 5 yr old pitbull/chihuahua mix, is very trustworthy and so I do have her sleep with me. We both feel safer that way. She does have a crate too and is crate trained. Lastly, my geriatric female chihuahua, 15 yrs, sleeps in her crate every nite.
A community that can self critique will get better. Denial doesn't result in improvement.
Hi man, I thought this would be the perfect opportunity for me to comment on one of your videos. I have recently got a 4 months old Cane Corso puppy. This is the 5th dog I've trained, (I owned a golden retriever back when I was living with my parents, and trained 4 rottweilers for my dad). Needless to say, I love dog training. I have watched all the guides and courses out there, and I think your method is the most efficient, and healthiest one so far. But you nail the most important part at the end of this video. Being a serious person makes the biggest difference. I've had minor issues with all the dogs I trained so far, mostly because of other people who were involved like my parents. Now I live in my own place, married and have a 3 year old autistic son. Today is my 5th day with my Cane Corso puppy. He is a serious dog, but extremely loyal and obeys me %100 of the time. He is already potty and crate trained, and responds to my recall even when he has a bone. Not because I have done the "go get method" yet (too young for it), but because I seriously mean it when I call him. I also advised my wife that this is a breed we could not go wrong with, and she follows the same methods. And so far we have had an amazing experience with the pup. Not because I have followed your guides step by step, but because I learn more about the mindset of a good trainer around dogs. I appreciate you a lot, thanks to you, we are already on our way to have the perfect dog (he is already helping my son so much to make him communicate more), and also our dog is very happy and balanced. Cheers.
Hey man, I also just got a corso, same age. She was a little difficult to potty train, but she good with, down, sit, stay, heel, until we get distracted by 4h animals, but we are working on that. I bought an e collar but have not used it. I really had it to correct her with digging or barking at people in the park next to our house. She has not started barking at folks yet, so I think I won't use the e collar(vibrate) until later. I don't think she will need the shock.
As a balanced trainer! I am disgusted at the misuse of ,what should be a simple communication tool....I teach wolfdogs with e-collars and never have to use a high setting
I've got a rule about corrections: they can't hurt the dog more than they hurt themselves while playing. High level e-collars are abuse, plain and simple. If you're in a situation that you have to light the dog up, you're at fault for putting the dog in a situation it's not ready for.
Most people lack timing. That is not such a bad thing if you mistime a treat or verbal correction. It is a big deal if you are shocking a dog. Very few people with dogs and frankly very few trainers have perfect timing. If you cannot train a dog without shocking it you need to go back to dog training school.
‘Your dog is not your significant other’ 😆 - welcome to the year 2022 where this has to be stated
but im lonely Joel! and doggies are way better than people
Agree.. lol
Why remove a tool that can help if used properly. That said even a idiot can strip a Phillips head screw.
Am I out of line for thinking that an ecollar should not be used as punishment, but more of a 'hey, pay attention to me' - from a distance?
Omg how did people ever manage before the days of electrocuting their dogs. Wtf try a shout/ loudly whistle ...or if that bothers you. Why TF did u allow your dog that far away from you
This day and age with everyone applying all their moral standards on something who the hell knows man.
@@TheSebiestor for what it's worth, I don't have an ecollar, pinch, or chain collar. A quick noise on my part gets his attention, and he mostly listens. Still a pup at 7 months. And we're on 40 acres, possible he may be 1/4 mile away working cows...
Our bond and mutual trust and respect goes a long way...
Larry Krohn is pretty widely known as an ecollar trainer. He openly has a name for trainers that shock dogs on high stim and call it training. “Asshole”
That said, I love my ecollar for recall but rarely have to use it to get recall. Shocking a reactive dog definitely won’t help it become stable. My current dog got better under a regimen of exposure, play, obedience, and corrections. Definitely some advice from Joel worked in the mix because I use an ecollar, but don’t aspire to be an ecollar jockey.
Larry is the E-goat
As Larry has in his book. Once the dog is properly conditioned to the e-collar the level of stimulation should be stepped up an appropriate amount to avoid the slow progression to higher and higher levels of Asshole.
I've used a remote E-Collar on lowest setting and also vibrate with great success.. For chasing cars, jumping on my parked cars, running into the road, jumping fences. It only took a few times and the correction was successful and collar came off, never to be used again.. But I do notice on occasion my dog giving me the stink eye when I pick up the remote to the tv.. lol..
lol
Thats why you should have not even shown him the remote or made it seem like it was you that did it. Just let the dog think that when it did something stupid something not fun happens.
I think Tom Davis uses the E-collar in a very cool way. Collars are just tools.
"The best dog training is the dog training that actually gets done." Some people skip the work and jump straight to e-collars (shock collars). Maybe they are 'work-shy'? or "too busy"? to make the effort to train their dogs. As Joel has said before, you've got to put in the work. (paraphrased)
Training should never be punitive to the point of causing pain! It’s not called training. It’s called torture! E-collars are a great tool to communicate when the your dog from a distance but never to punish wth pain! 😔
Always so clear with the explanations
Love it 💜♥️💚💙
More bloopers please lol
So in the end it comes down to using the tools the right way, just like with a gentle leader which is highly aversive. Nothing new here
Joel - thank you so much for your channel! We cannot thank you enough. This is the best channel on youtube for minute-by-minute education for dog owners.
Could you do a video explaining reactivity and aggression vs typical dog excitement or frustration? My dog is big and very social so we go to the dog park a lot, and I see a lot of wild things! Tbh, it seems like most of the owners have 0 control over their dogs. Let's just say, I keep a close eye on things!
Great job getting to the real points. On point about e-collars. Have seen the full spectrum of e-collar trainers and its horrendous usage end of the spectrum. Thanks for the balanced approach. Comparisons to how you treat a child to dog training really helps the layman understand. CONSISTANCY is so important. I am a 74 year old woman who has trained dogs for 30 years in various disciplines. Hate to say it but the tortuous use of e-collars in the field training world by poor trainers makes me really upset....would like to put the e-collar on their private parts to let them feel what is is like.....
As a dog-trainer, then you prefer to find alternatives? Would an e-collar be a last resort for you? 😏
@@rachelm7525
What kind of dog and issue do you have with your dog?
Check out Leopardstar 600s comment - he has a good take on collars.
As Spam Sucker commented - it is a tool and is really subject to the talent and understanding and philosophy of the trainer. My issue is that it is very easy to, even with the best intentions, end up not using it correctly and not in the best interest of the dog and your relationship as opposed to the ego of the trainer or owner.
@@cassiemunga1 we have a 14 month-old Mini Schnauzer who's what Joel calls 'an out-front dog.' He frequently pulls like a steam-train, his recall is weak, though improving with work, and he's totally obsessed with other dogs. He won't come back if there's another dog on the field, he runs up to them. I see all these as part of the same problem: he's not reliant enough on us. Impatient and excited, like most youngsters, he kind of ignores us. I wouldn't use an e-collar, and they're soon to be made illegal here in the UK, anyway.
@@rachelm7525 you're not giving structure to your dog, plain and simple. You need to seek help of a trainer like Joel, or give your best to understand his videos and put them into action, not just watching them for entertainment.
@@EdgarFroes believe me, I'm here to learn, not be entertained. With Joel's methods we are making progress. 🙂
I have an e-collar and have yet to use it. However, an E-collar is just an invisible leash and I've used it on myself to know what level it will be on and it will NEVER go above 5 even though the instructions say to start on 10 (it goes to 99) and that's if I ever use it
I think Tom Davis has a really cool usage of an e-collar in his training methods, I enjoy watching both of your channels immensely 👌
Here in the UK, (pre-Covid), since 2018, the government were, and still are, planning to ban e-collars, a move backed by the British Kennel Club. They are illegal in Wales. To be fair, I've never seen one, but I would not consider inflicting pain, if that's what they do, as a legitimate training method. 😏
@@rachelm7525 A woman I met who has used them told me that those e-collars do inflict pain, and they do so until the dog starts exhibitig the behaviours they want. After that the thing is dialed down and the dog gets just a vibrating, warning, buzz. But the dog has to wear that e-collar his whole entire life afterwards.
Tom Davis uses vibrator e-collars not shocks which is an important note, people hear e-collar and they don't stop to ask what it does. Tom Davis very successful and knows his stuff, I watch him as well as Beckmans
Tom Davis uses stim also and vibration
Tom Davis is the real deal. He used tools in clear, fair, and humane way. He is very effective at sorting out reactivity and aggression issues and teaching owners how to communicate with their dogs in a way that dogs understand.
Joel, as a fellow trainer, I use e-collars, prong collars, slip leads, gentle leaders etc. The 2 examples that you gave made me livid. That is not e-collar training that is torture. I have 5 dogs as I have posted before. My dogs know what the e-collars are about. When I bring them out the dogs go into a happy dance. Why. because the collars mean we are going to do something, car ride, go to the park, training, car ride for the treats, they get to meet new people. In other words, over- all the collars represent something positive. I seldom need to use the stim on any level. My corrections are done 80% on the vibe setting.
One problem with e-collars "not working" are because of tick fur. Low voltages won't make through it, so the owner raises the voltage until he gets some response from the dog, which would be when the extremely high voltage shocking the dog as the dog moves and the electrodes touch the skin through the fur. This is lack of expetience and knowledge on how to use the tool.
Well Larry Krohn is already doing it. He is trying to clean up the misuse of the e-collar. Because it's a great thing in the right hands. But when I hear, that the trainer had to use the strongest e-collar... this is insane.... If the trainer can't punish the dog without any extra tools, he is a bad trainer.
Misuse of the ecollar is shit training
So is misuse of the gentle leader..yanking on a dogs neck and potentially causing injury/stress in the vertebrae of the neck is also not great training either. Obedience training is under rated for behaviour issues.
Good reminder Joel. I really like the 4 points for reactive dogs (no jumping when you get home, no pulling you down the street, make sure your dog comes when called, no sleeping on the bed). With freezing cold weather in the midwest and icy sidewalks I've been lax on walks to try to get everything over with as quickly as possible. But, it's time to get more serious so our dog is less likely to react.
Snuggling with my Aussie in bed is my favorite part of the day. Thank you so much for clarifying your reasoning. I had wondered why you had that prohibition, and now I can stop feeling guilty about my choice. As a rescue with several previous owners, he finds comfort in that quiet time together, as do I. Thank you for being the voice of reason in an increasingly unreasonable world.
Our 5 dogs stay outside during the day in their 1 acre backyard unless the weather is too extreme. They are sometimes so filthy even just the thought of them sleeping in our bed makes me cringe. They aren't allowed on any furniture whatsoever. It would be ruined within a week. They have their own Kuranda beds, an indoor set and an outdoor set that they love. Those are their beds. Comfy, easy to clean. They also have their own room where they sleep together. Zero reason for them to be on human furniture.
Totally agree with you!
i've used, and still using (now 99% for precaution) e-collar for recall. it allowed my dog to run freely in the field with me being confident she will always come back. we couldn't reach that level without an e-collar. IF USED CORRECTLY it is a great tool
Same with my dog! He was great on a 100ft longline, but the second you took it off, he was basically like f you and wouldn't listen. Got him ecollar trained and now he's off leash all the time (where it's safe to)
My dog uses it for recall also. I have 26 acres we hike on daily, i have 3 Catahoula dogs. They are all free to run, chase and play. 1 dog will not return if shes on a scent. I can now just hit vibrate, watch her turn to come back, give her a big YES, a treat, a free dog command
and were off again. It is so nice to see her make the decision to return to me,
and then go back to playing. It has been a great tool. I watched Larry Krohn's videos on humane e collar use and have rarely need to
use any level higher than her working level. She is safe to play and im secure that she will not leave my property.
A win -win.
⬆️ same experience here
E collar saved my dog....I only use the beep or vibrant festure to get my dog to listen to my commands...only use the shock if she jumps on people after i her off. Or when she runs into the street
@@caseymackey746 thats great !! But the problem is...MOST people don't read Larry Krohns book....and most dont do any basic obedience training BEFORE using an ECollar..Most people are using them incorrectly....and for punishment......KUDOS to you ...for using it correctly.!!!
I'm glad you make your stances on e collars so clear. After making an effort to watch stuff from force free trainers, balanced traners and the aversive trainers, I have also come to the same conclusion as you.
E collars aren't inherently bad. It's a tool. The people misusing them at high levels make me so angry and it's abuse.
It's like the pencil. You can use it for its intended use as a writing pencil. Or you can use it to harm others like John Wick, which is not the intended use.
So as long as the dog is behaved and follows commands it should not in theory be a problem to let the dog sleep in bed with you.
I have in the past used e collar on one of my dogs to correct stock and wildlife chasing(deer), not only did I test it out on myself first,but I was also trained by my trainer how and when to use it,you cant use them after the fact,as its then a punishment, its all about timing a wee zap or beep just before the behaviour (and that takes a lot of work,observation and consistency) after a few months he didn't chase the same and I could stop him if needed with a firm "leave it" command.
Never better demonstrated by working a drive on a pheasant shoot he put up 3 roe deer that had been sitting tight,he turned his head to look back at me ,I saw his body tense for the chase,and shouted "LEAVE IT" and he did just that( some of the trained gundogs took up the chase but not him ,I was sooooooo proud of him (he was a Doberman by the way )
Mr.Beckman:
I watch a ton of your videos and have some input personally on E-collars for people who plan to use or buy one themselves.
I have a 9 month old corgi, we live on 7 acres and have deer that roam onto the property. She minds very well until she sees deer and I tried everything to call her off of them.
Basically I was afraid she would run off or run in the road as she wouldn't "leave it" or "come" when she saw a deer.
I bought a cheap E-collar to see if that would work and found out it went from barely feeling a shock to oh my god get this thing off me, so i returned it
and spent 200 on a good one. Its a dogtra 280c. I only use it on a very low setting, 10 out of 100+. You can't even feel it shock when you have the prongs in your palm
but its enough to get her attention and now she recalls perfectly even when chasing things she shouldn't.
I still have alot to learn but thought I'd share of my experience if anyone is looking into getting one.
I personally think you should subject your own self to the collar if you plan on putting one on your dog so you get an idea of what you are subjecting them to.
D
Again, very well stated. Be extremely mindful on what type of dog you put an eCollar on. We had a case nearby where they accidentally messed up a very sensitive hunting dog with the lowest vibration setting. The dog completely freaked out and lost all trust in his handler. It might be rare, but if you notice your dog has a "thin skin" - maybe try other methods that take more time and effort (e.g. training it to pipe commands like sheepherders do)
Hi Joel, I’ve always had one or more dogs and have never wanted them to sleep with me. I’m with you on collars something that’s definitely not for me. Keep up the good work.
👍 totally agree !
Thank you for always being straight forward and honest on you thoughts always !
Love all your videos. Been watching them and they have helped a lot. I have a 10 month old Doberman who does almost everything perfect (good recall, does trick training, plays with other dogs well, etc). Her one vice is car aggression. I’ve tried distraction method. I haven’t seen a video specifically on car aggression. Are you able to do a video explaining why they do it and how to correct it?
Our German shepherd had similar experience at board and train. I wish I would have known how they were using the E collar. When we went to pick him up their instructions were if he doesn't listen just keep increasing the shock until he does. Absolutely horrible. Not to mention they do 3 months board and train!! I wish we knew what we know now. Our dog is still struggling with dog reactivity and basically came back the same as he was before. I'm thankful to have found your videos as they have helped SO much. Thank you for posting this information. Our dog had been in training starting at 3 months per recommendation of a very well known trainer in our area. After watching your developmental video I am convinced we caused his issues. Breaks my heart so much. Again, thank you for putting this info out there so mistakes can be avoided.
We had our Mini Schnauzer from 8 weeks, and he slept in a crate. I slept on the kitchen floor for a few nights to help him settle, after that, he was fine. Now he's in a bed in the living-room, he absolutely does not sleep in our bed. We have a cat, and that's her half of the house! 🙂
This opinions very misinformed. The ecollars just a tool for positive punishment and negative reinforcement. Just like a leash. The level is dictated by what gets a good response from the dog...
And here is a comment from a person who knows what they are talking about. If you know , you know. Last thing I would support is ANY kind of abuse. Training with a tool only
…makes it bad if the intention comes from the wrong place. Be informed, learn your craft and adjust to each individual case you are working with! Use common sense and your well intended instincts. The rest will fall in place.
@@theprocessisgreatness140 totally agree mate
The wisdom that this channel imparts is gold. What a treasure
Beckman's Dog Training is. Thank you, Joel, for another GREAT video.
This is so true, so many people have this one-sided mindset and don't realize that no matter what you support; there are always corrupted and incorrect representations of those things you support. The healthiest and best thing you can do to support your cause is to reinforce and fight within your circle to create what you are trying to put forth.
In terms of dogs in bed, I am exactly the same as you, I dislike them being in my bed or on my couch and I feel some of my friends are skeptical I am a dog lover because of it. They let their dogs jump on them, get on the sofa and bed, and practically drug or tie up the dog to bathe it. At the end of the day, out of my group of friends, I am the one who makes healthy chicken soups and takes my dogs on hikes, I am the one who makes sure my dogs vet appointments are up to date with the deserved care needed, and I have no issues bathing them or getting them to listen. Just because I don't cuddle them constantly and let them lick my face and eat out of my plate doesn't make me less of a dog lover, but it really makes me doubt myself sometimes.
I am not a dog expert. Had dogs for 27 years. From day one the dog is in my house it starts walking with me around the place on a regular collar and regular leash. I am pretty much against harnesses, prong collars and e-collars. These are not tools for building a bond or a relationship with an animal.
I guess it depends on the dog. My dog will turn on a dime with my whistle. I’ve never seen herding dogs who respond to the slightest signal without ever using an e-collar. If the e-collar is needed to save the life of a dog or protect family members, I’m ok with that. I don’t think it’s the first line for recall though.
I don’t let my dogs jump on me or pull- but I have CPTSD and my first dog sleeps at the very corner of the bed facing the door. When I travel it is what helps me sleep. My other pup sleeps in her crate. This dog is serious. But he had been attacked and so have I with loose dogs running up to me. I can control him and keep him in check but I’m ok with him as is.
👍👍👍. Great vid Joel. Thanks for your knowledge.
Im not gonna stop letting my dog sleep in my bed but I do make sure he knows that if I tell him to get down he gets down without question.
Honestly I think that's probably the best approach in most cases. The point he makes in the video seems to be using making them get off the bed as an opportunity to teach obedience so IMO as long as they aren't resource guarding the bed, it probably doesn't matter all that much where they sleep (usually) . I am the same way as you, I let my dog sleep on my bed if he wants and I feel like it, but if I say off, I expect him to get off. I also have a cue for him to jump up on the furniture. The main point is that your dog listens. He also clarifies that that policy is for reactive dogs which is fair.
I used to be completely against e collars because I have seen them used incorrectly so many times. I thought this once the only way it was used. However, one of my other dog trainer friends showed me how to condition a dog to it correctly on extremely low level at a level we humans can barely feel and sometimes not feel at all. I believe in 100% responsibility for dog owners. This is why I train recalls with e collars but I never start the behavior on an e collar. Its always follows the comprehension of the command with the e collar as a low level wireless leash . I have had an off leash dog run up to me when I was working an aggressive dog that was muzzled. I told the person to recall their dog and they did but the dog did not listen and it could have ended pretty bad if I did not body block. If the owner had an e collar then the moment the dog makes the decision to say no you have the reinforcement to say excuse me yes you will. Humanly and safely. But not many people know how to do it right and it can create huge problems. I agree there is a reason why you dont zap the crap out of a dog legit not every dog can deal with that much direct pressure nor is it healthy
Like the "Its always follows the comprehension of the command with the e collar as a low level wireless leash" perfect description!
Another informative video which makes sense.
Thanks for addressing this. I noticed that you liked my comment about e-collar in another video and it's so good that you've addressed this. I use e-collars in my dogs, but at the lowest voltage possible, and I use it responsibly. I tested the e-collar on me before using it in my dogs, so I'd suggest that everyone does the same. If you don't have the courage to test it on you, you shouldn't be using it.
One of my three dogs used to escape through the fence. I've corrected her from distance only a single time, at the right moment and intensity, and she never tried to blindly escape like she did, and I never had to.correct her again since.
I've learned over the years that you need to train the dog in front of you, some dogs need an e-collar, others don't. You should never "light up" a dog with the e-collar though, as you said, or I think you said, "that's abuse". The collar is meant to grab the dog's attention not hurt the dog. I used to think all e-collars and the people who used them were "bad", I thankfully now know better!
I train dogs with ecollars
They are great tools that can be easily misused
I really dislike when some ppl just go "oh this dog must be trained this way only and nothing else can be implemented". One of my personal dogs is too sensitive for an ecollar even tho she is big dog with thick fur and seemingly tough personality. And I'm fine with it. I trained her with a beeping collar (I forgot the brand. Its tiny collar attachment that beeps and that's it) and it's just enough for her to get her attention off leash
For other dogs I use ecollar as clicker. The beeping sound is used as clicker and I can't imagine not using it this way, when dog is far away it gives them instant reward if they can't hear me
I also have retrained dogs that were abused with ecollars. It's horrifying seeing dogs that are affraid of having something put on their necks and owners making their dogs yelp.
I go hardest at those uneducated abusers, they are the problem, they make normal trainers look bad
Ecollars aren't fix it all tools, opposed to what many ppl think, they are amazing in correct hands and I definetly wouldn't recommend them to average pet owner without training
Thanks Joel. Another great lesson. Your advice makes such a difference! Keep it up!
Great topic. In my opinion, there are way too many people who use e-collar, or prongs, as a "quick" and "easy" way to get the dog to function as they want. Just because, and I know I sound prejudicial here, they do not want to be actually engaged in training their dog. Whether they do not have the time, the motivation, the patience or whatever. And some trainers, even well-known ones contribute to it by opting for an e-collar, or prong, after getting to know the dog for a few minutes. And this without telling the owners, at least not shown in their YT-videos, that with the use of such tools also comes responsibility and sensitivity for proper use.
That said, I know there are dogs out there that can be helped a lot with these tools. Perhaps some kind of e-collar driver's license could help. But then there needs to be some kind of warning label for such products in their merchandise stores like "you need to have training first before you can buy this product - for the sake of your dog", or something. No offense, they can be useful tools for some cases but should never be the first thing to do. Anyway, I am glad that Joel does not use such tools and shows us viewers different ways to deal with certain problems. Thanks for this!
If you think using a popping method to control a dog is less harmful, especially while using the gentle leader, you're not thinking too clearly. Is the popping method wrong to do, absolutely not. Can people abuse that method also, absolutely. Do they need a "license" to own or walk their own dog? That's ridiculous. Do you have any real experience with a prong collar or an ecollar, or have you just gathered an opinion from the divers hearsay? With a prong collar one has to apply very little force/pressure as compared with any other tool, except the e-collar of course that gives a stimulation.
@@michael-lynn 🙌 I dislike gentle leaders so much...
I am a veterinarian, and I use E collars on my own dogs. However, a properly fitted and used E collar should never cause burns or skin damage - even at high level corrections. I almost went off on a so-called trainer who came in with one of my fearful patients and was getting ready to light the dog up if she showed fear (growled) when I approached. The dog was TERRIFIED. I gave that trainer a hard look and told him not to shock the dog. Too many people use the E collar as a quick fix instead of what it really is - an extension of your training.
All collars are tools. All tools need to be used in the right circumstances. I've seen some amazing work done with ecollars, for recall mainly which cuts off the reactiveness/stock worrying. But it's the user not the tool when things go wrong. All collars can also be used as impliments of torture in the wrong hands. Thanks Joel. Keep 'em coming.
I purchased a 2 dog ecollar kit from dogtra for the purpose of off leash recall and maybe some dog reactivity under the right and safe circumstances. I pursued this after me and my older dog were playing in the backyard around dusk and she took off when she saw the nightly group of deer walking around my neighbor's house. She chased them to the road luckily stopping at the road. I'd never forgive myself if something happened badly.
Q+
Very well said.
Nope. If you need an ecollar then youre not taking the time to learn and understand your dog. Youre also using pain to control a behaviour rather than training the dog out of it. Im not going to say more because I have a strong opinion on this subject. What I will say is that the Royal society for the protection of animals - in many commonwealth countries - wants them banned. They are already illegal in a number of states in my country (Australia).
Bottom line - a good trainer can train even a difficult dog without an e-collar. If you cant do the same then you need to either not train dogs or find a trainer who can.
@@tileux Thank you for your restraint on what can be a very emotive subject. But concentrating on the misuse of ecollars ( causing pain) does not cover the whole subject. The professionals and respectful trainers who use these tools do so at a level of vibration ( not pain or shock) that a human cannot even feel. It is used as a reminder to pay attention much like the lead and collar but it can be used at a distance. In some cases this tool is chosen as the best way to correct a badly trained dog ( and human handler).
I hope Joel doesn't mind me posting a link to an ecollar being used correctly by a professional. He is Tom Davis demonstrating it's proper use on a problem dog. It's a 17 minute lesson. I urge you to watch it to gain more information of this tool.
th-cam.com/video/WtXrEfQvR6I/w-d-xo.html
As to causing pain or suffering to any animal for any reason ; Ban the human. For life. Personally, I'd like to be get more radical with the punishment but I'm not allowed to cause humans pain either.
I let my dogs sleep in the bed, but they only come if I invite them. They also have to get off in 3 seconds sharp if I say so. Same goes to the sofa. I think if a dogs passes these to tests, coming to the bed only if invited (because they know they need an invitation) and getting off as soon as you say it, it's ok for them to sleep on the bed.
2 Leonbergers and a flatcoat sleeping on the bed ... no way🤣
If you fix the dog’s jumping it could address reactivity/aggression.
Nip it in the bud. No uninvited jumping from the beginning.
Started watching your vids for trying to train/indroduce a dog I found. (2 yr old Boxer mix). Grew up with labs and currently have a 9yr old lab and have used e collars on hunting dogs. On my hunting dogs the ecollar is/was rarely needed to 'shock' the dog. If it was done it was because it strayed to far and was shocked at a low setting if at all for the 'beeper' sound would usually do the trick. Have yet to use the ecollar on the 'new' rescue dog, but may depending on how well the 'come' commands go. Thanks for the video(s).
Agree with you on the misuse of e collars. I happen to use an e collar on every board and train. Now, that doesn’t mean I use an e collar as a cure for every issue a dog may have. I have personally had a few dogs with VERY intense small animal prey drive. You typically can’t correct this with an e collar. I have had great success with a Halti head collar for this issue. An e collar is just a tool. Similar to food. It’s just a tool. I don’t use a hammer when I need a screwdriver. Use the appropriate tool (dog has a lot of say in this) for the particular issue….. However, the relationship you have with your dog will help you more than any tool to correct/manage most issues.
I wish all of us dog trainers can just get on the same page. You advise the use against e.collars while another very great youtube trainer uses e.collar training in most of their work. For new dog trainers like myself, this sort of thing can get very confusing. Use an e. collar, no use a front lead harness, no use a prong, no use a chain, actually you dont need tools....ugh! So frustrating! At the end of the day can we all just do what is best for the dog even if that requires a tool? Ive used tools and e collars and treats etc and if you use them correctly the dog is just fine. Sometimes we are fighting against eachother more than we are fighting against the purely positive...this training thing is a constant damn fight.
It's not the tools! It's the people - trainers and owners! Give a powerful car to a learner driver - chances are it'll be pronged! Give a high powered piece of any equipment to the average owner and ... sadly you're talking about 'pranging' a living being .....
Yes. 👌Use common sense and be realistic. I use all types of tools depending on the situation. Context matters
I sent my dog to board and train, and the trainer used an ecollar responsibly. She never put it full blast or even half way. It was super successful but I decided I don't really like the ecollar that much so I used other methods when I got him back and use the ecollar for off leash hiking or anywhere he is off leash where he might get too far for from me or see a moose or that type of thing. I agree with your stance on ecollars, your opinion is the same one I have. I just personally prefer other ways to train, though. But glad I got a responsible trainer who didn't fry his brains. That would be horrible! I didn't even know that was a thing with trainers.
You should be familiar with jeff gellman’s work before talk about anything about ecollar. You don’t have enough experience on it!
You are the new PP/FF lol
As someone that uses low level stim, and even high stim on occasion, i 100% agree with you.
These ecollar jockeys that use that button out of frustration are the WORST.
There is a time and place for high stim, and its not when your dog looks the wrong way.
Im no professional dog trainer, and i learn more every day. But i do have an off leash trained, social Caucasian Shepherd, so i feel like i did at least something right.
Oh, and you disregarded the natural heirarchy and then said that you respect and utilize the heirarchy. The "alpha" idea has been abused, but being "serious" is the exact same thing as putting yourself at the top of the heirarchy, AKA "alpha."
I used an "e-collar" on VIBRATE and BEEP-BEEP mode only to "HELP" with re-call at the park! After calling I'd give him a few seconds to look at me and if he ignored me, I'd give him a BEEP which acted like a tap on the shoulder....it didn't take long and I don't need it any more!
Lol, i didn't have to use E/shock collar to stop counter surfing, i used an universal Beckman's technique which worked for everything so i didn't have to address every single behaviour, it worked for counter surfing, jumping, biting, aggression, nipping, snapping/biting hard shaking the soft skin areas, barking/ growling and following everywhere around the house, everything disappeared in 1 session. It was a tecbique of his mixed with one of mines, i put that together and miracles acocured, this man is a real genius.
For what concerns the topic i'm with him for what concerns the bed, bedroom, couch, armchairs, I'm not for E/shock/choke/prong collars especially if used by trainers or privates as if there was no tomorrow for every little stupid thing and command (how to set up things to completely screw your dog).
I'm more traditional with some positive reinforcement there.
I don't think there is a need for shock collars in domesticated dogs or animals. One other thing that not many dog trainers focus or talk about is the negative health effects of using the shock collars, rather than what we see in the surface. I talked to a holistic vet and this is what he said that change my mind about using this tool many years ago: th-cam.com/video/sqPZu3hSG1I/w-d-xo.html
Dogs on beds is an example of drawing boundaries. Our lab goes absolutely nuts after eating, parading around with his biggest cutest toy to earn our attention.
My partner cannot even feign "seriousness" - she says the words without conviction.
Consequently the dog (flush with his meal - blood coursing with carrot and pumpkin sugars with nowhere to go) climbs all over her and humps her after his dinner.
You have to find your inner sargent major - and we all know they are all bark ... don't we?
Caught myself thinking the way Joel instructs his staff when letting the dogs meet. My thoughts were like this: "Let's go plush fox first then yellow treat ball next" 😂
Was editing dog toy advertisements.
LOL - thanks for the laugh!!!! Perfect!
😂😂
Just want to make a comment regarding the e-collar issue. I so appreciate Joel's comments on them, but maybe the EU collar manufacturers should take some responsibility with their product and adjust the level so it is not able to go high enough to cause cruelty/damage to the dog. Hello??? Common sense maybe??
I have no problem with my dogs in my bed, however they dont sleep with me.
The pup jumps/sort of when i get home, the older doesnt.
None of them pulls, one is always of leash, the pup is under "training".
The older comes when called, the pup, stops when i say halt, he doesnt understand "here" yet - calling back is gonna start this spring.
The oldest is a rescue dog, i got him without any training at the age of three, he is now, "fully trained".
The pup is a pedigree, which i hope to be "fully trained" at 2 years.
Maybe you should take some time away from aggression and explore say heelwork or advanced obedience. Wouldn't suprise me if you found an application
My malinois-husky mix is really stubborn and she just won't accept the leash, to the point I start the training and she pulls, she jumps and screams like someone is beating her to death and I am not exaggerating (Huskies are scream experts). I have neighbors and I am scared someone will call the police for animal abuse, even though I am not hurting her in any way. I stopped using the leash on her but I don't like this bad teenage behavior. Can i use the e-collar during leash training just to stop her stubbornness and disrespect? And how can i do it correctly? Thank you! (I have e-collars for recalls, cause we have a large field for running and playing. Nowdays, I only use the beeping sound of the e-collar for recall.)
As one of the people that schit on you for one of your last vid's rant on remote collars, I think you for your partial clarification. However, following what you are trying to say, you can't blame the collar itself for being misused. Nor can you say it's the responsibility of remote collar users/trainers to police bad trainers that use remote collars. That's ridiculous. We don't all belong to some secret club and we don't all know one another personally. That's like asking a black person if they know another black person just because they're black! These schitty trainers are individuals and like all areas of society, there are bad apples. You wouldn't blame every dog of a certain breed if one dog of that breed bit you, would you?
And again, the remote collar stimulation has no physical effect on the brain. Again, if the dog is psychologically messed up, it's due to bad training experiences, if the case is as in your examples. Any a**hole can screw up an animal psychologically with any training tool or with no training tool at all. It's the individual at the other end of the tool that can be the problem.
I really like your training vid's and you've got some very valuable insight to share. I just wish you'd not generalize and point fingers.
Thanks and best wishes.
Bert
My trainer for basic obedience sprung the use of eCollars on us at the 9th of 10 group sessions, while swigging beer from a can in front of his class...
He was promoting the use of an collar with multiple 'electrodes' to prevent development of resistant scar tissue forming on the dogs neck at the site of the electrodes. Unbelievable.
5:25 why do you specifically mention "at home" for not jumping on you? are you saying that it's ok for when you're not at home?
e-collars; as with all tools can be abused, this is true. I was taught by a balanced trainer how to use one for low-stim communication training. Using an e-collar gave my GSD immediate unhindered off-leash time as it provided a safety net if ever he put himself in danger. 5 years later & I still equip one to this day, doesn't really get used, but it's there if I need it. It's a wonderful tool in trained hands.
Shock collars can create fear, anxiety and aggression in your dog toward you or other animals. While they may suppress unwanted behavior, they do not teach a dog what you would like them to do instead and therefore should not be used
Nah. I’m not shocking my best friend. Wouldn’t want someone to do it to me so why would I do that to her?
I agree with you 100%% about letting my dog sleep or jumping on the bed.
He only stays on his own bed below next to me and it help with training him to not jump on furnitures too
I have a few questions, I want to get a puppy but I worry I wont have enough time to train and properly exercise the dog. How much time does it really take each day to train and exercise a puppy to fully grow dog? I work everyday and the dog would be home each day with my wife and kids but I want to make sure if I get a dog I have time to make sure those things get done.
E collars work if used appropriately, they have a very limited and specific use case and can accomplish things that are otherwise not possible. I agree that you never need to light up a dog.
My dog is reactive to other dogs and people (in certain scenarios). Just booted her out of the bed tonight. Man is she playing the pitiful card. she'd be on suicide watch if human.
7:09
Prince barking back to Joel, "What? I'm not on the bed."
Wear the e-collar yourself and test it on its different settings. If you feel like you wouldn't inflict a certain level on a disobedient child, don't inflict it on your dog. And remember, dogs are more sensitive than we are.
Make one of your insight full posts about the horrible thing that happened in Florida at that rescue. You have clearly described this type of things. Also, so much agree about the ones who basically electrocute the dog..... I have seen people do that.
Can you explain more what is low level e collar training what low level means? What are brands that are trustworthy?
Oh and in addition, of course the dog owners need to take responsibility when they are deciding to use this type of device on their pet. Maybe think about how they would feel about a high level shock on their neck??
A E-collar should only be used on a mid-high level for life and death situations such as the Buufo toad which is toxic or other toxic animals that your dog would ignore you to try and catch, and counter surfing to eat toxic foods.
My pup's breeder and children allowed her in the beds. :( It took me two nights to get her sleeping on her own bed in my room (the second nite I threw my old fleece dog walking jacket on her bed and she slept all nite without a whimper.) When she was 18mnths old I allowed her to sit on the outdoor lounge for the first time - I'll never forget her disbelief lol, and she loves it when I sit there with her watching the chickens. She will never be allowed on the indoor lounge.
I've never used a e-collar, but I have seen some great work by others using them in the correct way. Recently, a show aired in Australia titled Muster Dogs. The trainers used garden rakes to train the dogs to keep their distance from the stock.
th-cam.com/users/results?search_query=muster+dogs+abc
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Yes Muster Dog's was a great show!! The rakes are intended to be an extension of your arm. They like other tools ie vocal inflection, body language, leash correction, create pressure to interupt a behaviour or redirect the dog. The kelpies were awesome🤗🐾💚
@@bordercolliesdownunder7245 They really were amazing! I use a palm frond stem as a barrier when rounding up my chooks, to keep my dog walking slowly behind them. When i drop the frond she runs up and makes sure they are all in their house. lol
What is your opinion about dogs on or sleeping on the couch instead of the bed? Same as the sleeping in bed?
If you’ve ever been to a dog park you would see dogs off leash, happy and having a great time. Wether they have a dumb owner or not let dogs be dogs to many rules are not going to give you a happy dog. I’ve raised all types of breeds and a mutual respect must be attained you don’t need e collars and slip leashes to make a dog listen and understand . Try a little common sense dogs deserve that
My dog has 3 beds. His kennel, his bed in my den, and his bed in my bedroom. He is not allowed in my bed or on my furniture. He has rules and he knows them.