What's My Line? - Tribute to Dorothy Kilgallen - Maureen O' Sullivan (Nov 14, 1965) [W/ COMMERCIALS]
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- MYSTERY GUEST: Maureen O' Sullivan
PANEL: Arlene Francis, Steve Allen, Kitty Carlisle, Bennett Cerf
And now we enter the last phase of the WML on CBS, the shows following the loss of Dorothy Kilgallen.
No mincing of words: this is a difficult episode to watch. Despite the decision to go on with the show as usual (just as they did after Fred Allen's sudden death in 1956), there's a palpable pall cast over the entire program. The opening and closing are the only parts of the show where Dorothy's passing is addressed directly, but these brief moments are particularly wrenching.
The original commercials are again included, with footage from two sources in order to preserve as much as possible of the higher quality, edited copy.
Special thank you to Steve M. Russo for providing the bulk of this episode. Folks interested in high quality, well packaged, well-edited DVDs of WML and other panel game shows can contact him directly for more information at RetroTVFestival@comcast.net.
The usual many thanks to epaddon for providing his copy of this show with the commercials.
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![What's My Line? - James Kilgallen [Dorothy's father!]; Nanette Fabray (Nov 18, 1956)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/awvassUXswE/mqdefault.jpg)
![What's My Line? - James Kilgallen [Dorothy's father!]; Nanette Fabray (Nov 18, 1956)](/img/tr.png)
![What's My Line? - Andy Griffith; Steve Allen [panel] (Oct 31, 1965) [W/ COMMERCIALS]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_T6XLJUphyA/mqdefault.jpg)
My mom was the first guest that night. She remembers the somber atmosphere as well as the fact there not the usual party after the taping.
Alli Payne Oh, wow-- I know I'm not alone when I say, as a WML fan, I'd be delighted to hear any and everything your mom remembers about being on the program. I'm very annoyed that I almost COMPLETELY missed your comment, got no notification for it from TH-cam at all. It's very rare to hear from people who are related to contestants, and always extremely welcome, but even more so if your mom was on such a historically important episode. Thanks for commenting, and if you can share any more, please do!
What's My Line? Norma did not know who submitted her name to the show, and assumed that particular episode would be cancelled in light of Kilgallen's death. But, as she didn't hear anything, she went ahead and flew to NYC. They put her up at the Americana Hotel. When she arrived at the studio, she was ushered to a small room where she waited alone. The stage manager told her there would be no meet and greet after the show as was usually the case. So, she went back to her hotel and on home the next day. In the mail she got her big winnings and a note from the producer saying that she had received a very positive response and that she should run for president! I know she was annoyed with Kitty Carlisle's comment about how everyone voted her because she was pretty, but appreciated Serf's flirtatious question about whether she was the cause of the recent black-out and thought he was clever to pull out her party affliliation. One can see how that went over! And she chose not to correct Daly's gaff, calling her "Norman", figuring folk could see she was not male. Then, as instructed, she shook the panels hands and left. Decades later a graduate student who was doing a paper on Kilgallen managed to track her down in Arizona to see if she could shed some light. But, she told him everything was very somber and hush hush, and no one was saying ANYTHING.
Alli Payne It's truly wonderful of you to have shared all this information. I can't thank you enough-- it's fascinating. And it's just very nice of you to take the time out to respond in such detail. We WML fans eat this stuff up, really.
As I commented in the WML Facebook group (where, I can tell you, no surprise that the folks there are very interested in your comments), I've always felt bad for the contestants on this particular episode for having the misfortune to be booked on the single most depressing, laugh-free, difficult-to-watch episode of WML. I'm convinced that even if you snipped the opening and closing off and showed the rest of the episode to someone who had no idea what its significance was, even though there's no mention of Dorothy at any other point, it would still be apparent that something was very, very off that night. But though I'm sure it wasn't the fun experience it would have been virtually any other week, your mom does have the distinction of having appeared on one of the most historically significant episodes of the series. And certainly the strangest!
If you'll indulge me one minor question, I'm very curious about the prize money, if your mom remembers. My understanding is that all the contestants got the full $50 regardless of whether they won the game, plus an all expense paid trip to NY if travel was required. I've also seen mention of some spending money given to the regular contestants for the trip, but all of this info is very murky. I couldn't resist at least taking the shot that your mom would remember a small detail like this 50 years later.
And really, thanks so much again for your comments.
What's My Line? I'm so glad the WML fans are enjoying this! Yes, she did get that whole 50 bucks. The show paid for the flight and the hotel, but that was it. She was not allowed to leave right after her appearance, but was ushered back to the same small room until the show was over. As she was walking back to her hotel, an audience member called after her, "Mayor Walker! Mayor Walker!" and asked her tell a former mayor of Aurora hello for him. She clearly remembers the flight back because she had to prep for the first council meeting of her term. I do love revisiting this show now and again - but looking at all the guests are the right side of my screen, I might fall down this rabbit hole for quite a while.
+Alli Payne Wow! This has been ultra thrilling to read and I thank you so much for sharing with us. As an avid WML fan, this episode is one that I have seen many times and "enjoy" in a very somber way. It's rare that I remember a contestant's name, but I always remember your mom's name! And I noticed the incorrect reference to her name as "Norman" and wondered why it was never mentioned. Your comments are great!
John's face... The poor man looks as though he is carrying the weight of the world. What a sad night for 'our friends'
I can't imagine how hard this was for the panel.
Even today after so many years, John's opening statement is deeply moving.
Yes, I'm in tears as I respond to you.
@@LauraMorland same...
@@Marie-oy1bd I can't bear to watch it again. I guess I'll watch Betty White on WML and cry about her!
Such an emotional commentary, it made me cry. Very somber.
@@IrishAnnie I can't bear to watch it again for a long while.
i REMEMBER watching the news announcing Dorothy's sudden death. What's My Line was probably never the same after Dorothy died. Arlene, Bennet, and John look heart broken.
WML producer Gil Fates wrote in his book on the show that it was never the same after Dorothy's passing. Bennett and Arlene liked the show, but they didn't play with the intensity DK did. Dorothy wanted to win. Fates said they tried to keep the "journalism / reporter" chic of the show with several other writers (Suzy - a newspaper society columnist, author Helen Gurley-Brown and AP news service reported Mary Ann Means. All three tried - Suzy and Helen were better - but none came close to Dorothy. Another thing which helped speed the end of WML was Daly's refusal to introduce panel participation or other demonstration segments as To Tell The Truth had done. Daly told Fates, "Save that cr@p for I've Got A Secret."
I would love to read the Gil Fstes book!
@@snowden67 I sometimes think that Dorothy's death was what ultimately led to the decision that the networks made to get rid of all of the panel shows in 1967. Her death exposed the biggest-and indeed only-weakness that panel shows in the US and Canada(The CBC's Front Page Challenge would have similar issues in its later years) had: They were all, after so many years, so dependent on the personalities sitting on the panel that if something as calamitous as this happened, they wouldn't be able to keep the engine running for long, as Gil Fates practically admitted that they couldn't.
British panel shows, by contrast, often went off the air for a period of years before returning, sometimes with the old faces but sometimes with new ones, which allowed them to run for longer periods(As an example, WML? in the UK ended in '61, came back briefly in the 70s, and roared back in full force in the early 1980s, lasting over a decade. Eamonn Andrews even hosted the 80s edition all the way until his death in '87).
@daniel anderson I remember reading it on the back page of the paper; totally surprised.
It carried on just fine
John Daly's tribute to Dorothy Kilgallen was touching.
They are trying so hard to get through this episode. Every time I see John Daly, he appears about ready to cry. I applaud all the men and women involved with this episode. I don’t think I could have done it.
Goodnight, Dear Dorothy... 😢
He looked like he had virtually aged overnight...
They are all dead now rip
@@coolfinetime you’re correct, they are all passed now. But don’t negate what these folks went through that night.
You will never see a greater display of class and dignity.
And, MORE IMPORTANTLY, RIP, MIss Kilgallon, my FAVORITE EVER panelist on WHL.
I couldn't agree more. I still watch these videos frequently, and I remember when this happened. That evening, we were all in shock. Watching these brings back good memories of my youth and a wonderful pair of parents who watched it religiously. May they all RIP.
*5 Key Words=> 666 Eugene🔥Police, Justin Martyr*
*CriminaL SKuum Eugene PoLice, are ALways on the Side of the CriminaLs!!!*
That was commonplace back then - an example I aspired to as a young boy, which put me at odds with my juvenile peers. Considering the tenor of our society nowadays I feel my aspirations were vindicated.
@@schullieringer What do you mean by Rest in Peace? Any other way of resting?
Everything about Dorothy Kilgallen's death was painful, shocking and disturbing. And those of us who were alive at the time are resigned to the fact that in all likelyhood we will go to our graves believing that the truth about her untimely death has never been revealed and that a terrible injustice may forever go unaddressed.
I agree.
Mark Shaw is doing all he can to make sure it is addressed AND revealed.
@@andrewklados4096 Thanks. I will check it out...
@@tfcmls_domination6801 -- Sorry, but in my opinion, (and this is not the place to debate it all) but only the utterly ill-informed would believe that preposterous story,...
Dorothy's personality does not go with how she died. It will always be a mystery.
I love the fact that Steve Allen filled in. He was, in my opinion, by far the best of the constantly changing 4th spot on the panel.
Well, he was a permanent panelist before he was in the rotation.
He also filled in after Fred Allen’s death.
I like to call it the "Allen Slot". Filled by Fred Allen, Steve Allen, Woody Allen, and occasionally Marty Allen.
@@PhilBagels Not to mention Allen Ludden.
Steve Allen was a quick witted, brilliant comedian, and performer.
It seems like Arlene, Steve, Bennett and Mr. Daly all aged overnight from the loss of Dorothy.
+Joann Smith I agree with you 100%.
+Joann Smith They were all devastated by the loss, and they were out of it as a result. You could tell that all of the performers were completely preoccupied... to the point that none of them really seemed to want to be there. When Maureen O'Sullivan was on specifically, each of the panelists were missing the important questions. The dynamic that Dorothy brought to the panel was lost and, as a result, they were flustered during the mystery guest round. Though, Kitty Carlisle did her level best. If Dorothy had been there, I'm certain they would have guessed the mystery guest in one or two rounds.
Yes, I believe that as well. I particularly didn't care for Kitty Carlisle. She didn't seem one bit sincere when she commented at the end of the program about her sitting in Dorothy's seat. It just seemed so thoughtless.
What in the world did you expect her to say? They weren't close personal friends. Kitty gave a respectful and thoughtful short tribute, just like everyone else on the panel did.
+What's My Line? It just seemed forced and not heart felt in my opinion. Even though they may have not been close personal friends...it just seemed empty. Everyone else's seemed to come from the heart. Like I said though...that is just my opinion. No need to get angry about it.
It is remarkable how manners and civility have coarsened over the past half century .
I would correct you and say they have DISCINTEGRATED!
Today's shows, tv ads and media is saturated in attention-seeking narcissism. No class.
@@Wisdom-Nuggets-Tid-Bits So has spelling apparently.
It all started with the HIPPIES!😢😢😢
@@DominiqueCurtis-p8i It started in the 40s after WW II - all the propaganda and fight against proper decor, manners, the institution of marriage, child discipline - proper, Christian values, grace, and abiding by the law. That is when it started. The Hippies' parents were the WW II generation - which was when proper child discipline stopped.
I noticed all the Arlene and Kitty are dressed in black and all the men are wearing black ties out of respect for Dorothy. Back when people on tv had class.
Class and segregation. Gotta love them good ol' times right? /end sarcasm.
What would prompt you to make such an irrelevant comment?
It is completely relevant.
"neckbeard". What a fitting username for you!
"Neckbeard" would presumably NOT have enjoyed 'privilege' to receive equal hospitality from the men's barber, (who also dressed in black with due regard for the fallen comrade, Ms. Kilgallen); and, if my guess is correct, I can readily appreciate the bitter feeling to such 'off (or on) topic' remarks.
I'm grateful to live today, rather than then; because perhaps I can therefore enjoy a greater broadness in mind, & this more openly.
Each to our own challenges, gladly?
Dorothy Killgalen was the best part of WML….rest in peace, lovely lady.
I totally agree. Ive only been watching clips from youtube since this aired long before i was born. From the clips ive seen so far, Shes got the most correct.
She got so many right . May God rest her soul in His peace , please & thank U , Amen .
Yes she was
She was/is fun to watch. While Arlene was all woman, Dorothy had a certain girlishness. She was sometimes criticized for wanting to win, to get it right, but that was part of he appeal.
The whole panel was a "class act." Dorothy was a true talent and was sorely missed as the panel indicated. Supp-hose stockings? Do women even wear stockings anymore?
With due respect to Arlene and Bennett, WML was never quite the same after Dorothy's death.
It should've ended after her death. It ran two years too long, and even before Dorothy passed, ratings weren't as high and many people were losing interest.
They tried but the end was near
This was the mid sixties and viewing habits had changed.
@@wendyfried4589 the television landscape was starting to change in 1965 and by the the year 1972 the game shows in primetime were gone and the westerns had about three more years on TV so tv changed with the times
So very, very true.
Everyone dressed so proper and they all had good manners. What a change from today
Everyone dressed so properly...
@@timcarr6401What is "properly"? Forget the style. What I noticed is that they held themselves well and could have been dressed in anything. It wasn't the clothes that made the mayor.
@@nedludd7622 The word 'properly' means correctly, suitably or in a fitting manner. If one is describing an action then you would use the word properly. The word 'proper' is used if you are describing a thing.
Bennett was not mannered by asking one of the contestants their political leanings.
@@nedludd7622 I understand the word “proper” is open to interpretation. My feeling is that these people had style. I remember the days when people even dressed up to get on an airplane. Even now if you visit a church or a nice restaurant you will see many people dressed like slobs. It’s become normalized. There are people with style today, they still exist and I am always happy to see someone looking sharp.
The show was never the same after Dorothy passed. Dorothy, Arlene, Bennett and John became the 4 legs of the chair and one of them had gone.
Randy Bailin Arlene's eyes were never the same. So sad what life can do.
I agree, I was the only one in the family that felt a part of the game show no one else did.
With the demise of Fred Allen the show was losing its charm surely and after Dorothy's demise it surely lost it totally.
Dorthy was an extremely brilliant person. If you ever noticed , she was the one who solved the issue more than any of the rest. R.I.P.
She was intuitive. She would have been a great detective.
I think Dorothy was killed by the government. She was getting too close to finding out what happened to Marilyn Monroe. Marilyn did not commit suicide and yes, Dorothy was a talented investigative reporter.
@@gurucarcar well, she was kind of a detective...an investigative reporter.
It was amazing to watch her go. Like a dog on the trail.
She was absolutely brilliant, insightful...one of the first 500 persons to have a Hollywood star granted
They did what honored Dorothy Kilgallen by doing the show. True class. They were hurting but did not run away! I miss those days.
1. I'm glad that the panel was able to enjoy some humor that night.
2. The panel's closing statements about Dorothy were so touching.
Over the years, I remembered from this broadcast John's introduction. I remembered Kitty Carlisle comment in the end. Kitty probably knew what she had to do that night -- and she did it brilliantly.
I appreciate what you are doing not just for fans of "What's My Line", but for the history that is being preserved here by this (especially) and the countless other eps. you've posted
I'm glad Miss Norma Walker has had a long life, and with Alli Payne saying she celebrated her 91st in 2019, she was then a gorgeous 37 in 1965. It had to air on that particular night, of all nights, one of the saddest in WML history. But, she did brighten up the show if for a brief moment, if you want to look at it that way.
@freeguy77, In fact, she just passed away this past September, at 95.
@@mitchellmelkin4078 So sad to hear that, but she lived to have a long life at 95, which few people get to enjoy that long. She was so gorgeous in this WML? episode!
John Daly's voice breaking during his sad intro brings on the tears every time I hear it
I remember this show well. I was just but 12 and we all thought that she had killed herself. It was all quite shocking since it happened following her appearance of WML the night before.
Rick jones she did kill herself
@@donaldmcauliffe7653 She had no reason to!
@@colleen4ever she met jack in prison he gave out information which got them both killed
Donald Mcauliffe supposedly in her last two weeks alive she bought a gun because she was threatened her life while working on a JFK story.
I had tears at the end when Arlene, Steve and Bennett each paid tribute to their dear friend and colleague who they all classed as family… it was so nice to have Steve Allen on this show as he is my favorite guest panelist. They are all such classy people.
Dorothy will never be forgotten.
This was one of the all time saddest tv episodes. Kitty's speech at the end made my tears flow. RIP Miss Kilgallen.
I just watched this on you tube. And my tears flowed as well, considering how & why she passed on. Very eloquent tributes to her from the panelists. RIP, Ms. Kilgallen.
@@wendylee9779 RIP? What other way is there to rest when you die.
Love you people from the past accept Jesus in your heart soul mind
@@Robert-re5vk I always think of this too! Breaks my heart that so many don’t know the joy of knowing our wonderful savior! Worst yet thinking about what eternity means for them!
@@lindapearson3411 😅😅
I wasn't alive when this show aired. But I have watched quite a few episodes on this channel and it is very obvious that Ms. Kilgallen was the smartest, sharpest member of the panel.
Yes she was highly intelligent. I can remember vaguely some of the later shows, but this program did start before I was born. I became intrigued with Dorothy when I recently heard several programs about her on the Coast to Coast radio show. She was quite the investigative reporter. I was tickled to recently find her on these videos and connect a name and a face. She was highly intelligent and so beautiful. I am a child of the 50s and miss the days of women dressing up and having impeccable manners. Being smart and inquisitive got Dorothy killed. She was onto the Marilyn Monroe "suicide" when she was murdered by the federal government. Dorothy held her own in a man's profession at a time that women didn't do that. She was awesome.
@@scottishhellcat It was her understanding that some in our own government killed her to stop her investigation of who assassinated JFK. And why
This episode presents an AWESOME expression of strength after the loss of a loved one. Throughout her time on the show, I think Dorothy did exhibit the class of a debutante, the wisdom of an elder and the grace of a princess. I can see why WML panel was more than moved. Yet, this is a somber tribute to Mrs. Kilgallen-Kollmar. Nods of honor goes to her.
devoutman-Well said.:)
she was a total professional
SHE WAS MURDERED
@@harlow743
GOD killed her. It was her time to go.
@@harlow743Assasimated. I wonder how many viewers know that - and know why.
This must have been brutal for the panel. You can almost feel Mr Daly steeling himself to present a normal exterior to the camera. So much pleasure generated by the panellists and host over so many years and then ...... this.
How painful this day must've been for the panel...being that Dorothy Kilgallen was murdered.
have you read any of the books about her? I've read 2 already and I 've been slowly reading a nother one.
J Edgar Hoover had so much involvement.Dorothy knew too much
@@wanupgirlWhat are the titles of the two books?
@@WATCH-IT-BUSTER Ther Reporter who knew too much and Fighting for Justice: by Mark shaw
@wanupgirl Oh yes, I've watched Mark Shaws TH-cam videos on the subject.
The pain apparent in the announcers face is palpable and
incredibly poignant. Back when TV was real.
They all just look so upset, distraught, and utterly shocked through this. I cannot believe that Dorothy passed so suddenly without notice just hours after her final ever appearance. I've loved watching these clips of "What's My Line?", but seeing this, it really shows how much respect they have. They had courage and bravery enough to keep going through her honor and legacy. Rest in peace to Dorothy and everyone else who ever participated...
Passed so suddenly? She was murdered because she was going to expose the conspiracy of the JFK assasination.
She knew too much and had loose lips
@@dinahbrown902I don’t think ‘loose lips’ is appropriate for an investigative reporter.
@@raymondkymsuttle okay
She, and all the other reporter sleuths tried to find evidence of who assassinated JFK--- She had apparently uncovered evidence of who it was, and was killed to keep her quiet--- She was not suicidal, and a What's My Line episode was just filmed that evening--- Go ask the FBI or Frank Sinatra who killed her!!!!!!
This is 2023. This 'show' has captured me recently. The respect shown to their fellows is heart warming.
Only God in Heaven knows where Ms Dorothy is now. I want to give her a thumbs up for her contribution to Whats My Line. Thank you
And may you be at peace. With your Saviour.
I know where Dorothy is. She is in my heart. Your SAVIOR would would get his ass kicked if she tried to change that.
O.k. so only seven days had passed since Dorothy's passing, and they all swallowed the hurt and came and did the show... you can hear the hurt in Mr. Dalys voice and his facial expression... Life is tough when you loose someone...
And to think all the panel have now passed on...
Life, it grows like the grass but then fades away and blows by as the wind carries it away...
Does anyone know why or how Dorothy died? She wasn't old or anything... I mean makes no sense.
It was a shock to me even after all these years. I never watched nor I knew about this show before . It was sad because I watched an episode before this with her dad as a guest.
I think she was very intelligent and a big asset to the show. I really liked her... Rest In Peace!
yes but there is life after death my friend. They have all passed on to a better or worst place, depending on the state of their relationship with God at the time of their departure from this earth. I trust the great mercy of God has allow for them a better place.
Mehdi B. Idk if you found out by now or not but she was murdered, probably was a hit by Kennedy, as she was about to drop the story of Marilyn Monroe scandal
@@mehdib.628 A book has recently been published on the death of Dorothy Kilgallen. The author discusses this book titled "The Reporter Who Knew Too Much" at th-cam.com/video/nvpkE29X3tM/w-d-xo.html
z your joking right! Take your own advise weirdo
I had not heard of Dorothy Until recently I started watching WML About a month ago. I researched John and the panellists . I found Dorothy's story Interesting yet tragic . She was smart Kind and funny. What a gracious lady she was. John's monologue made me weep. What a brave performance by all, especially Mr Daily. RIP Dorothy .....
I've done a bit of research on Dorothy. One of the classiest ladies, a true loss.
Dorothy Was murdered because she was close to finding the true murderers of JFK.
@@allenevans6478 No she was not and you offer no evidence to support your claim. The Manhattan DA reopened the investigation into Dorothy's death in 2019. He found no basis to prosecute because there was no foul play. Case closed.
preppy socks Go back and do more research . You are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay offfffffff, She was poisoned with drugs and found sitting up in a bed, she never slept in. Who would be prosecuted in 2019? Everyone, is deceased, or aged.
@@preppysocks209 um, maybe you should do your research
@@kristabrewer9363 When you know more than the DA despite not having seen evidence he has seen, let us know.
John Daly looks visibly upset
Television done with class. All that grace and wit under the presures of live performances. This night, especially, must have been very difficult.
I've watched a lot of this show where Steve Allen is a panelist and this is the first one I've seen where he is not joking around. He looks very sad.
& so R us who got 2 know her .
Very astute catch.
Same with Arlene. She looks like she hasn’t slept in a week.
Having watched a good number of these shows over the few years since finding this "channel," I've gotten the sense of knowing Dorothy Kilgallen. With that feeling of familiarity, I get a lump in my throat when I watch this episode. I remember watching this game show while a boy with my folks, though it was pretty much over my head in understanding it fully. I mostly remember the animated, intro graphics. I do love watching these old shows. They're entertaining and they instill a sense of history in some of the guests who were on the show. Thank you 'What's My Line?' for giving us these shows to enjoy again and again!
If I were to write a comment about the show, I could simply cut and paste yours. Exactly my experience.
@@ibnalhaytham I hope you guys are members of The WML Facebook Page!
I am on the What's My Line Facebook page. But it's the syndicated version instead.
@@ibnalhaytham Hear Hear!
🙏 Amen.
You can tell John and Bennett are deeply upset, but it's always Arlene that breaks my heart here. She seems absolutely shell-shocked. The light that is usually in her eyes is completely gone here. She and Dorothy always seemed genuinely close, and it must have been just horrible to suddenly lose a good friend, and the only other woman on the show that you've spent nearly every Sunday with for 15 years.
+downtonabbeyfreak I agree. Arlene usually is bubbly and impish. She is completely serious in this episode. She knows what questions to asks and she asks them, but she is doing her job automatically. There is none of the usual joy and fun. Her comments at the end bring me to tears. Also, Steve Allen seems to be trying to hold himself together as he speaks about Dorothy. John Daly, though, is the one who really breaks my heart as he looks like he is so heartbroken that he just wants to sit down and put his head in his hands. They are all performers but I don't believe there was any acting going on; they were all devastated by Dorothy's sudden death.
I think Steve was pretty upset too.
@@patshhi4620 I feel the same way. He's so subdued in this episode. Even Bennet's missing the twinkle in his eyes which belies the smile on his face as he tries to play the game.
@@BBCHZ Agree on the others but not so sure on Bennett. I really didn't like what I consider to be, rather unkind comments at best and disparaging at worst, that he made about Dorothy just 3 short years later, during an interview. I was shocked and to be honest, really quite sad. It was wholly unnecessary and I think if the positions were reversed, Dorothy would have been much more magnanimous and dignified.
Love Dorothy Kilgallen, best panelist ever, such a loss when she passed away. John, Bennett and Arlene were favs too and while I’m sure they all had fun doing the show and enjoyed each other’s company on the set, was surprised to read in Arlene Francis’ book that she and Bennett were not really close to Dorothy. They were in different political camps and didn’t travel in the same social circles.
Man 1965.....more class on that panel than all of Hollywood today..... Bring back better education and decency in clothing...
Also diggin the 8 track in the mustang commercial
Yes, the mustang commercial I liked. I am in a mustang club.
I had an 8 track in my first car, a Mustang. 😊
This had to be a very difficult show for them to do. I dont know how one would go on with the show without a hiccup Should they have postponed the show? Honor her memory with this show as they did with the awkwardness seen during the episode? I think it speaks very highly of them and their care for her.
Such a sad show - they were all trying so hard but were clearly very upset.
The whole panel did a great job at maintaining their composure. I had tears in my eyes just knowing she died only a week earlier. Goodnight Dorothy. We will miss you.
Kitty Carlisle said it best. Nobody could possibly take her place.
I also liked what Steve Allen said about how their inability to guess the first three contestants (including the mystery guest) showed just how much Dorothy's absence was felt in the game. Of course, at other times when Dorothy was not on the show for one reason or another, the other panelists usually played well, but I think their inability to guess the lines reflected not only the loss of Dorothy's skill in the game but also the loss each of the panelists was feeling that made it hard for them to focus and play well. During the Maureen O'Sullivan segment, I could practically hear each of them thinking, "oh, if Dorothy were here, she'd be able to guess this one!"
SaveThe TPC Steve's tribute was pitch perfect-- just as his remarks about Fred Allen were on the episode following Fred's death.
SaveThe TPC She certainly played the game very well, as did so many of these panelists. No question about that. So many of these game show greats were such masterful game players...it made the shows that much funner to watch. What's My Line?
Dorothy used all her resources to try and figure out the lines. And when it came to mystery guests, she would try and remember knowing who was in town that week to see if they were the MG. The fact that they never found a full-time replacement for Dorothy (much like they never did for Fred Allen) showed how good a player she was. Phyllis Newman was the closest they came to a regular fill-in at that spot (Also adding Sue Oakland later).
Vahan Nisanian morning
Wow! So touching. Maureen Sullivan first became popular playing Jane, Tarzan's wife. Sure miss Dorothy. What a tragic loss.
You can see tears in John’s eyes at the end. Bennett’s voice cracking 🥺
John looked like crying most of the show. Must have been tough to film that episode.
Dorothy Kilgallen was a genius at this game. And I had a crush on her as a six year old watching WML.
You musta been into chinless uglies
@@dei1 superficial morons like you have no idea what appreciation for intelligence and elegance is.
@@dei1 is a sociopath.
@@dei1 no, I don't believe they are into your type, try that line next time on "what's your issue."
When growing up, What's my Line was one of my favorite game shows. Dorthy was certainly an asset to the panel and greatly missed.
I saw this live on CBS-TV when I was aged 9, and it is still one of the starkest memory I have from childhood TV. It was an early lesson about how swift death could be. It was also an early lesson that when someone’s image comes into the house regularly for years, the image not the person, you feel like someone you know has died. This is like the fourth time I have watched this episode since 1965. I still do not know how to react to it.
soulierinvestments I also watched it live when I was a kid and it affected me the same way. I loved the show. John Daly was obviously heartbroken. That's the main thing I remember. Dorothy was wicked smart and had a good sense of humor, despite what people say. The panelists were my role models. Well, butterflies are free, aren't they?
I was 10 at the time and although we always watched this program, on that particular night we did not. It never occurred to me until now that my parents probably didn't want us to see it due to the tragedy of her death. My mother in particular was very protective. I'm so glad I was able to view it here.
I was also 10 years old when this aired and I remember watching this with my family on TV. After WML ended I never thought about these shows again, until my Mother died six years ago. Somehow I found WML on TH-cam and came across this. As I watched this show and other WML episodes with my small dog beside me, I found it comforting to watch these people who were like "family" to me from so long ago. Many happy memories resurfaced and I did not feel so alone.
I, too, remember seeing this episode as a child. Despite the next day being a schoolday, if my homework was done, my reward was being allowed to stay up to see this show. I have just now discovered this post, along with many other broadcasts; and at 80, I completely broke down in sobs to relive this episode, especially John Daley's introduction. Miss Kilgallen contributed so much charm and "class" to this delightful show. She, and John D., and all the panel had a ready wit and tasteful reperte that is sadly wanting in today's TV.
@@jerrymunroe2233 I was 12 at the time. My Mother along with her 12 brothers and sisters are all gone now, the many cousins are now the next generation and like you, watching these shows brings back memories of a simpler time and a feeling of "family" also. This is the first time seeing this episode and I'm glad to finally see it.
Rest in light, Dorothy.
Interesting comment from Serf, “When she went after a story nothing could ever get in her way.”
serf lol
@@rosemma34 Yes, the last thing Cerf would ever be thought of as was a "serf"!
@@robertfiller8634 Cerf's up
Frank Sinatra would have attested to Kilgallen's not letting anything get in the way of getting a good story.
@@nothingtodo58 No love lost there. He called her “the chinless wonder,” no?
Add my name to the list complimenting Norma Walker's elegance and beauty. She does make it more bearable watching a very difficult, sad and painful show. She kind of reminds me of Geena Davis.
Yes, very similar in appearance to Geena Davis - a statuesque beauty!
I agree.. I am a bit shocked in a female mayor in this time
Very touching and heartfelt tributes at the end of the show.
At the moment when john dailey a man who is so quick to joke with even the most personal matters introduces the first guest with not so much as a grin is testament to the impact this beautifully happy woman brought every Sunday...
Despite the somber feeling over this episode, it was nice to see the panel loosen up some as the Maureen O'Sullivan spot went on. Felt like a weight was lifted when Steve Allen asked What Show am I on?
This is sad. It's hard to believe that she did the show on Sunday night, and then she was found dead the next morning. But she's here today in spirit. May she rest in peace.
@Mary C No she was not. Offer some proof if you are going to put out falsehoods.
@Andrew Ongais I don't know what Mary C said, but Dorothy was definitely murdered.
@@dorothykilgallenwasmurdere1653 No, she definitely wasn't.
She might have uncovered who really killed Kennedy rumors have it the secret service killed Kennedy that's why they killed her
@@JimBalter the events surrounding her death are so clearly suspicious.
it looks painful to play a game when still in mourning, you can tell the panel and Mr. Daly are beyond sad by Dorothy Killgallen's loss ... maybe they should have played a re-run
awkward claps in the audience as the closing screen goes up..wow..chilling to even the audience..
No question about it. The saddest episode in the history of "What's My Line?".
You can really tell they're holding back the tears here. Can't say I blame them. May Dorothy rest in peace.
And the audience didn't whistle at the first contestant as per pulchritudinous tradition. Everyone seemed to be in a daze here.
+Chris Barat It would be a major leap to say the studio audience was in a daze, but the four panelists and John Daly probably were.
@@2508bona ...I noticed that. I think the whistling is cheap and tacky and I'm glad they had the sensibilities to refrain. Other than the whistles...I really enjoy this show...as much as I did back in the 60's.
It's a tough watch.
Bless them 🙏 💗 ✨
@@anselmgolden8286 yes
good to have Steve and Kitty join them for support--5 classy people here.
Devastatingly sad show. I'm afraid, as well as being moved while watching this heartfelt tribute of this, I can't help but envisage the haunting details of how she was found and what I suspect most likely led to her death. For me it's both a tragedy as well as a downright scandal.
I have done an extensive thorough research about her death and strange circumstances concerning her demise ... and I strongly believe with all my heart that this beautiful charming lady was murdered 😔
@@rafaelramirez1507 Kilgallen was not murdered. She died of a fatal barbiturate/alcohol interaction, either suicidal or accidental. There was no evidence of a break-in, violence, or foul play. The incident was twice investigated (by the NYPD and the HSCA) and the case closed. In nearly 57 years, no one has been able to adduce solid evidence that would give credence to any different conclusion.
@@apointofinterest8574 I respect your opinion, but I still strongly believe that she was murdered ... the same as I feel about the mysterious deaths of Marilyn Monroe and George Reeves ... (❓)🤔 😔
@@rafaelramirez1507 It's not in the realm of "opinion." There's no evidence to support that which you "believe." It just comforts you to believe it.
@@apointofinterest8574 no it don't, it makes me feel sad to know that the police did not investigate properly , happened all the time back then
Wow, a women mayor in 1965, very rare.
OjaiRoy she was hot.
According to one source I saw, she was the first woman mayor of a U.S. city larger than 60,000.
Sue L that article mentioned how she hated the comment from Kitty Carlisle about her looks! “I was so mad I wanted to hit her”
@@obamna666 Yeah, that comment by Kitty was jarring to say the least. Thank God for the societal transformations about to begin in the latter half of the 1960s that would soon change everything.
It's a happy fun show. I can't say now how long I have been seeing these. They have made me laugh. It's hard to see the pain in the eyes. But laughter the best medicine. Something from Steel Magnolias that always brought peace to me. I never met any of them but I have love them for making me laugh.
I love to see that Dorothy's legacy continues to shine with the kind words of so many viewers here on TH-cam. I can't thank the owner of this account enough for posting these videos for us. Without them, I wouldn't have gained the respect and admiration for Dorothy that I do now. Thanks again!
I was just thinking the same thing! R.I.P.
Brittany Welty That makes me feel very, very, very good to read. Thank you for the comment. I'm on the same page as you, too. My admiration and affection for Dorothy has grown in leaps and bounds over the last year and a half of posting these videos, especially after I read her biography.
Sad that she died surrounded by controversy ... I find her intelligent and inquisitive ... I really enjoy her on the panel. RIP 😥
Alli Payne: Your mom resembled Grace Kelly.
Thanks!
+apache5705 Hi, Yes they have been for sale- feel free to write to either her or myself and we can provide photos and prices. divinemisszsa@gmail.com (me). You can PM her on her regular Facebook page which is under Norma O Walker. And thanks!
Alli Payne I recently heard the interview with your mom on Colorado Public Radio (perhaps a repeat ). She sounded great!
George Maresh I thought too, George! Thank you!
MrAdvance2go p
As a former small-city newspaper editor, I think Dorothy would be ok with Bennett's comments on this episode and what he said in a later interview. Dorothy took her journalism seriously. And to not report the truth to the public because it's a friend or because it might harm yourself would be a betrayal of the public's trust. The problem is the game show was about the same topic she mostly reported on: celebrities. If she reported on Canadian industry, she could hear celebrity rumors in the shows back rooms and have no obligation to report on it.
Bennett said she never let anything get in the way of a story. And we know from her legacy of crime cases that this was true. He later said that if they talked back stage, she might end up reporting on the topic they talked about, no doubt, after she confirmed it. To me, one might seem negative and one positive, but they say the same thing. And do we know who or what loyalty Bennett was talking about?
She may not have been the girlfriend you called to have tea with. But I'm sure everyone respected her consistently putting her duty to her readers first, even if they didn't like it sometimes.
and, I notice her ability to catch nuances in the contestant's and John's body language and responses. This is an important talent/skill as a reporter. When asking a source a question, you need to not only ask the right questions and quote accurately, but the best ones pick up when a source is not saying something that is important.
Tina Tidmore Well said, Tina. :)
SHE WAS MURDERED
@@harlow743 indeed she was one of the all-time biggest conspiracies of all and the way it all played out was planned plotted and executed and the saddest part was basically absolutely no one took a stand to even question it and in the blink of an eye one of the most talented and integrated women and journalists of all time was taken from us in such a cruel manner and so wrong that we must remind ourselves to embrace and hold tightly to all the positive and good in life and to remember that Mankind's evils will not Prevail Over All She is safe now and protected and she will live again with the essence of life's truest Beauty and goodness ,the way it was meant to be,without mankind's ugliness.
I believe she was murdered with a big covered up. Like to see her case re open and properly investigated to give her family Justice and closure.
I was six weeks-old when this was originally aired, but I've always loved the America of Yesteryear - old shows, movies, music, old stars, old cars, everything - those even before my time. Those from the Golden and Classic age of American entertainment. My old man once told me I was born too late, and I think he was right. At any rate, I love WML, I've watched many of them, and you can smell the shock and sadness in the air even watching this one 50 years later on video. These people, typical of the era, were true pros, to go on live television and have to deal with this, just a week later. Dorothy was great, and it must have been hard and sad as hell for everyone around her here for her to go like this, so sudden.
MisterMasterShafter1 e
28:54 John was teared up at the end of the show. That teared me up.
Dorothy and MarilynnMonroe died the same way. Things haven’t changed much since then!
Bingo.
It was not coincidental. Someone out there knows the truth and getting away with it.
@@nh6870 Not forever. Judgment day is coming!
Você realmente acertou em cheio! Foi um duplo assassinato. Uma queima de arquivos friamente planejado. Dorothy e Marilyn não mereciam um final desses. 🙏🏻🌹❤️✨🌟🌟
Both were murdered. Americans aren't stupid.
Kitty Carlisle was right...others would sit in Dorothy's seat, but no one ever took her place. The same thing could be said for John, Arlene, Bennett, or Steve. Things were never the same after CBS cancelled the show
Dorothy Kilgallen came from a long-lived Irish-American family. Her famous father lived to be 94; her mother lived until 97, and her sister died in 2014 at age 95. On a personal note, Dorothy's mother had the identical name as my grandmother -- Mae Ahern.
In the face of self administered pills and booze, genes do not stand a chance.
@@JohnParks-zc1pn Not sure that it was self-administered. Many questions surround the death.
@@XCodeHelpHub such as?
Read The Reporter Who Knew Too Much!!!!
@@MichelleCahill-qp9mc What about The Reporter Who Drank Too Much (!!!) and The Reporter Who Popped Too Many Pills (!!!!)? One merely has to watch re-runs of WML to become painfully aware that Dorothy Kilgallen had a major substance abuse problem. Toward the end of her life, her speech was often slurred, and she did not look well. It's no surprise she met an early demise. I'm sure none of the long-time WML panelists were surprised. People would rather invent outlandish conspiracy theories than face the obvious.
I was privileged to meet Steve Allen several trimester, after college....a very talented & kind person.
"Several times"! Stupid spellcheck!
Leave it to Kitty Carlisle to say it better than anyone else in such a succinct manner. What a classy lady!
Great way to pay tribute to a great lady gone too soon!
"in the night of death, hope see's a star and listening love can hear the rustle of a wing." Fly Dorothy, fly. Thank you for enriching our lives!
And trying to bring truth to our citizens 😢
The panelists were all highly intelligent, but I swear Dorothy Kilgallen was practically a genius. She was a regular Sherlock Holmes!
If she had not been murdered we would KNOW what led up to JFK's death.
Wow, this must've been the toughest WML show to do. Kudos to the host and panel for gamely going on after such a traumatic loss for them. Some of them had a slight crack in their voice when speaking. So sad.
Kilgallen was a "blood hound" investigative reporter lending to her expertise at the WML game.
The etiquette! Gentlemen standing to shake hands and say goodbye! ☺
Yeah, I miss it too.
Watch earlier episodes. All remained seats during the goodbye handshakes.
May Ms. Dorothy Kilgallen continue to rest in peace always!
Resurrection will be get Dorothy up from her sleep. Always is wrong, Christ will call Dorothy from the grave.
First Corinthians 15:42.
💔🙏😥🥀🥀🥀🥀🥀
It's almost silly I'm watching this, and I can't stop crying. I had sniffles for Fred Allen, and here it's waterworks. This happened so long ago. Everyone on this show had long since passed themselves. I've been watching these shows in order for the past few months. It's as real now as it was then before I was even born.
Everything about this show exuded a classiness that will never be seen again.
That was one gorgeous and glamorous mayor.
I am crying as well for this great panel and for The marvelous, intelligent Dorothy. Fun memories of watching What's My Line in the 1960s as a boy. 🙂
So, Who killed here---- The mob, the FBI?? Somebody wanted to shut her up before they were exposed--- She may have had the evidence on who the REAL killers of JFK were-----
I've recently found this series and really enjoying it. This is such a sad episode for them all, missing Dorothy so much.
Dorothy was a very smart lady. miss her very much.
"Is it larger than a breadbox?" The most famous WML? question, thanks to the late, great Steve Allen. R.I.P.
The Mayor of Aurora, Mrs Walker is certainly better looking than the Azzhole of NY, DeBlasio, lightfoot of Chicago and other dogs that currently mismanage American cities!
@@scarsdale22 I don't see the connection to what I wrote years ago. Can you?
@@freeguy77 I did not mean to write my comment as a reply to your comment! Wrong places.... perdonami
@@scarsdale22 Totally inappropriate and off topic! No one should choose their leaders by looks alone!
saddd sad show
John Daly was such a class act.
I am glad to have lived in the 1950s and 1960s, when men and women were polite, cultivated, elegant and respectful of each other.
Sadly if one displays those qualities today, one is thought of as odd. I miss those days as well.
... and when women were women and men were men...
They were less racist, homophobic and overall more tolerant, right? 🤔 🤔
@@MrJerry9691 Yes, overall there was considerably less racism in the 1950s than there is now. Promoting racism has become the primary interest of the media and the Democrats. And since there is no such thing as "homophobia," that question is meaningless. Tolerance implies respect. Yes, the 1950s were much more tolerant. People were much more respectful of others, period. Any look at our politics and "social" media proves that every single day.
@@timothywilliams1359 , I beg to differ. Polite meant as long as you didn't question Jim Crow laws and stayed closeted, you were considered one of the good "ones" as long as you didn't buck the system. The 1950s was a time when people had to look to the ground or move off the sidewalk , in the south most often, if someone was of a certain complexion waliking in their direction. I know people from that time period and they seem to be the same as people are now ( cultured and uncultured).
There was such a difference in the atmosphere of WML after her passing. I can remember watching it in the 70s. Arlene always had an air of sadness it seemed. She was reserved after I think. It still feels like that today too.
Dorothy had died only 6 days prior to this taping. RIP to a talented and poised woman
On this day, june 4 2019 i shed a tear fir Dorothy K. Im only 50. I've watched at least 100+ episodes in the last week or so. So easy to get attached to not only the show but the characters. Much better times back then. ❤
The sadness in the eyes told the story!
What a classy show, what classy people. Nothing like that today exist any longer, such a shame
Nobody from the show or the show itself was ever the same again...a wonderfully beautiful soul you could tell she was... I've only ever seen it in GSN but seen enough to be saddened... My fave on the show
This episode displays a strength of character by all the members of the panel including John Daly of course . What a tragic loss Dorothy Kilgallen was a real class act a credit to her profession a wife mother and just an extraordinary human being !!
Wife and mother? That's funny! In light of her affair with Johnny Ray.
You can see that the panel was off their game that night. Wow.
John Daly wasn't quite himself either.
John Charles Daly and Bennett Cerf both look thunderstruck. Arlene mostly appears to be in a better frame of mind, but in her first shot (the one including the entire panel) she looks like a person trying to steel herself up for a very difficult show. Kitty looks around, wondering if they'll be able to pull it off.
It makes sense, considering they only saw her a half a week prior. As much as people understand that death is inevitable, we have a hard time conceiving it.
The story goes this was videotaped the Thursday after the death of DK. Meaning they all probably just came back from her funeral.
This episode wasn't prerecorded, it was aired fully live (a week after Dorothy's death).
RIP dear Dorothy.
SHE WAS MURDERED
So sad to learn, she had passed, her intellectual thought level was extremely high!`The heavens from above called her!
you can see john daly struggling to keep the status quo but its easy to see he is hurting as the rest of the panel. that took a lot of courage.
I have to say that I was genuinely moved by this.
Alex Garcia so was I :'(
ل .ظنو
ل .ظنوم,كتبي)
ل .ظنوم,كتبي),
,اتقتحم. &6--' كوفي,.-7
...correction: I meant to say anyone believing her death as explained(not natural),was naive.PJ
She was dead and buried in 3 days... She was found on Monday the 8th and her funeral was on Thursday the 11th.
I wonder why so fast? I can guess.