To complicate terminology matters even further... other than "purring" the following were all Lancashire words for kicking; parring, pawsing, pausing, poising, punsing, puncing, and just to really confuse things punching. Good stuff as always. FIGHT TEAM!
I grew up in a small town on the Lancashire/Yorkshire border. Shinkick was a very niche, but still practiced, archaic form of combat (sport?). The participants would wear pointed boots, pad their shins with down and hold each other's shoulders and hoof each other in the shins as hard as possible.. ey um its grim up north! FIGHT TEAM!
I know the video was about kicking in wrestling, but headbutting keeps coming up in these older styles of fighting. Here in the States, there was the rough and tumble style, as well as knocking and kicking fromtheAfrican slaves. The knocking referring to headbutting. I've seen it on Greek pottery. Fascinating when you look back and "rediscover" these practices.
Makes sense to me. Many early British/Celtic wrestling styles included kicking. But rules change all the time. The Bataireacht I learned even accounts for kicking with peat boots. What's called purring in one area is called shinning in another. Fight Team
My brother still works at a state historical site as, among other responsibilities, a blacksmith. With our shared interest in personal combat and his hard-soled footwear ... ... when it comes to purring, he's the cat's meow. FIGHT TEAM!
I like how English Martial Arts is specific, you have the backhold styles that teach us to throw from clinch, purring tech us how to kick which help us to break balance before a throw, etc. Every art could enhance our skills in specific area. Excellent video
I saw something similar to purring in W.E. Fairbairn's book, All In Fighting. He described aiming a side-kick just below the knee and scraping downwards before smashing your adversary's instep. Speaking of Fairbairn, are you familiar with his work?
I did Muay Thai for a lot longer than I've done judo so one thing I've learned is that if you "foot sweep" enthusiastically enough one's randori partner will occasionally fall down on his own with no further effort needed. Very useful and these wrestlers must have observed the same thing
I like you, you make my own mental illness seem somehow moderate!! I mean that in the most respectful way possible!! It’s rare to find anyone more interested in pugilist history than myself!! ❤
@@EnglishMartialArts my condition is Chronic at the very least!! We do an MMA history podcast called “Lytes Out MMA History” I literally just got off a zoom call with Gerard Gordeau 20 minutes ago. I think you’d enjoy our stuff, we certainly enjoy yours! Keep up the good work my friend! We are a rare breed!!
Why does someone being kicked in the ear suggest that they kicked downed opponents? Any connection to savate? They seem to have decided around the same time, in port cities, it was a good idea to kick each other.
As Oz said plenty of evidence for kicking a downed opponent in Lancashire, so that seems the most likely answer. As for connections to savate, I have looked into this a little, and while it's certainly a possibility, I've yet to find any evidence. But who knows what might turn up in time.
savate doesn't come from sailors, there are two known théories of its origin for now. One being a military punishment where soldiers that were considered cowards during battles were beaten up with shoes/boots. The second one is that there used to be people transporting goods to be sold on their back. Since they were targeted by thieves they started to use their heavy boots/shoes as a mean of self défense. It later developped into a fighting art practiced by thugs in the bad parts of Paris, that used it as a mean of défense as well as ritual combat. In the mid 19th century someone named Lecour mixed savate with english pugilism to create boxe française.
Just knowing that a ”Lancashire clog fighting contest” is a thing, made me happy and this video very useful. Please someone revive this sport, I’d love to watch it rather than that MMA bollocks. On the more serious note, this sound awful lot what Savate might have been back in the day, so perhaps Le boxe française and good Ol Manly Art of English Boxing have more in common than neither the Franks nor you Saxon’s care to admit?
this reminds of an épisode of the Pro-wrestling History Nerds podcast where this topic was discussed. If I remember correctly they mentioned a fight that was stopped because one of the fighter ended with an open facture of the shin. Yum yum
The descriptions of old savate say they only kicked below the knee, and the foundational kick the coup de pied bas (low kick) was a shin kick. So there are a lot of similarities between old savate and purring. Do they have a common origin? Either culturally from the wearing of clogs or similar shin kicking games in France or perhaps one actually led to the other. I did reach that English miners were imported to France after the Neoploanic wars to help its mining industry , this would be at the time savate historically appears. Considering this obvious similarity I can find no reference to anyone exploring it. Even the Book on savate by Prof. loudcher, which is very academic and well researched claims there is nothing like savate, that it is totally unique, while making no mention of purring. This seems odd and it would seem to be a interesting area of research.
I find the lack of felines in this video disappointing. 😁 Thank you for highlighting the instances where kicks were aimed above the shins. That's not something I expected.
Collar & Elbow wrestling was extremely popular in the United States of America and was recorded as arriving by Welsh and Irish immigrants . Purring is recorded in American collar & elbow wrestling as kicking the shins with the inside of one's boots to facilitate a throw. Perhaps in England they had much different rules. Welsh and Irish Collar & Elbow Wrestling was the unarmed combat method taught to American civil war troops. U.S. POTUS Abraham Lincoln was recorded as a Champion Collar & Elbow Wrestler. POTUS Theodore Roosevelt was a Boxer then a Welsh Collar & Elbow Wrestler prior to his study of Kano Jiujitsu (Judo) which he declared Kano Jiujitsu (Judo) to be the superior unarmed self defense art. POTUS George Washington was a renown collar & elbow wrestler in addition to a renown veteran of the war of independence resulting in British defeat.
The purring used with historical collar & elbow wrestling in the USA used kicks with the instep if the boot to target the shins in order to facilitate throws. It's well recorded in American literature referencing American collar & elbow wrestling which often had Welsh or Irish roots in the USA.
The etymology is unclear. Some 19th books claim the word 'Purr" came into English through Welsh and ultimately goes back to an Irish word meaning to poke. However I've spent a long time going through old Welsh and Irish dictionaries and I have yet to find evidence to verify the above claim.
Just one thing. The head kick. You claim someone was kicked in the head whilst they were on the floor. Maybe they got a head kick whilst upright ...... just saying .... ......
![เจ็บที่ยังฮัก - ม่อน วรวิทย์ [ Official Mv ] จอนนี่มิวสิค](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KALIGSRSjFs/mqdefault.jpg)
I used to be a wrestler like you then I took an iron tipped clog in the knee.
To complicate terminology matters even further... other than "purring" the following were all Lancashire words for kicking; parring, pawsing, pausing, poising, punsing, puncing, and just to really confuse things punching. Good stuff as always.
FIGHT TEAM!
@@didjitalone9544 I haven't seen punting used in Lancashire, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was.
I grew up in a small town on the Lancashire/Yorkshire border. Shinkick was a very niche, but still practiced, archaic form of combat (sport?). The participants would wear pointed boots, pad their shins with down and hold each other's shoulders and hoof each other in the shins as hard as possible.. ey um its grim up north!
FIGHT TEAM!
I know the video was about kicking in wrestling, but headbutting keeps coming up in these older styles of fighting. Here in the States, there was the rough and tumble style, as well as knocking and kicking fromtheAfrican slaves. The knocking referring to headbutting. I've seen it on Greek pottery. Fascinating when you look back and "rediscover" these practices.
Makes sense to me. Many early British/Celtic wrestling styles included kicking. But rules change all the time. The Bataireacht I learned even accounts for kicking with peat boots. What's called purring in one area is called shinning in another. Fight Team
My brother still works at a state historical site as, among other responsibilities, a blacksmith. With our shared interest in personal combat and his hard-soled footwear ...
... when it comes to purring, he's the cat's meow.
FIGHT TEAM!
Sir you go too far!
@@EnglishMartialArts Sir, I have not yet begun to far ... go ... too ... far ... I have not yet begun!
I'd have to say it was an impurrfect video where you raised more questions than answered but still informative and fun for all that.
Thanks for the more recent series of historical martial arts videos centred around England! Super interesting stuff.
I like how English Martial Arts is specific, you have the backhold styles that teach us to throw from clinch, purring tech us how to kick which help us to break balance before a throw, etc. Every art could enhance our skills in specific area. Excellent video
Sheer brilliance. Bravo Sir!
I saw something similar to purring in W.E. Fairbairn's book, All In Fighting. He described aiming a side-kick just below the knee and scraping downwards before smashing your adversary's instep. Speaking of Fairbairn, are you familiar with his work?
I am indeed.
@@EnglishMartialArts what do you think of it? I'd love to see you do a video on him.
Embedded in the groin??? Dang!
I once dated an English girl who considered anywhere north of Watling Street as uncouth, not just Lancashire . . . lol
Yeah, that's pretty common. And arguably fair. 😀
@@EnglishMartialArts I just figured she was biased because she was from Kent! 😆
@@bubbagump2341 so she was pretty much French?
@@EnglishMartialArts Well, her ancestors did migrate along with William the Conqueror . . .
I did Muay Thai for a lot longer than I've done judo so one thing I've learned is that if you "foot sweep" enthusiastically enough one's randori partner will occasionally fall down on his own with no further effort needed. Very useful and these wrestlers must have observed the same thing
I like you, you make my own mental illness seem somehow moderate!!
I mean that in the most respectful way possible!! It’s rare to find anyone more interested in pugilist history than myself!! ❤
If that's a mental illness then I suspect I'm terminal...
@@EnglishMartialArts my condition is Chronic at the very least!!
We do an MMA history podcast called “Lytes Out MMA History”
I literally just got off a zoom call with Gerard Gordeau 20 minutes ago. I think you’d enjoy our stuff, we certainly enjoy yours!
Keep up the good work my friend! We are a rare breed!!
Fascinating stuff! Many thanks :)
Why does someone being kicked in the ear suggest that they kicked downed opponents? Any connection to savate? They seem to have decided around the same time, in port cities, it was a good idea to kick each other.
There's no significant evidence at all of high kicks. But plenty of people being kicked, punched, or choked when down.
As Oz said plenty of evidence for kicking a downed opponent in Lancashire, so that seems the most likely answer. As for connections to savate, I have looked into this a little, and while it's certainly a possibility, I've yet to find any evidence. But who knows what might turn up in time.
savate doesn't come from sailors, there are two known théories of its origin for now. One being a military punishment where soldiers that were considered cowards during battles were beaten up with shoes/boots. The second one is that there used to be people transporting goods to be sold on their back. Since they were targeted by thieves they started to use their heavy boots/shoes as a mean of self défense. It later developped into a fighting art practiced by thugs in the bad parts of Paris, that used it as a mean of défense as well as ritual combat. In the mid 19th century someone named Lecour mixed savate with english pugilism to create boxe française.
Just knowing that a ”Lancashire clog fighting contest” is a thing, made me happy and this video very useful. Please someone revive this sport, I’d love to watch it rather than that MMA bollocks.
On the more serious note, this sound awful lot what Savate might have been back in the day, so perhaps Le boxe française and good Ol Manly Art of English Boxing have more in common than neither the Franks nor you Saxon’s care to admit?
Hi! Keep up the good work, there is a lack of knowledge about earlier modes of fighting, specially those used by the common people. Cheers
Thanks!
this reminds of an épisode of the Pro-wrestling History Nerds podcast where this topic was discussed. If I remember correctly they mentioned a fight that was stopped because one of the fighter ended with an open facture of the shin. Yum yum
Yes, I can believe that.
This was definitely a "more questions than answers" video. We just don't know enough about what they actually did.
Getting there though!
Have you done a video on shin kicking?
Does this one not count?
@@EnglishMartialArts i meant prior to this one.
I've always used the term "Purring" with shin kicks more specifically with the heel riding down their shin in a clinch.
The descriptions of old savate say they only kicked below the knee, and the foundational kick the coup de pied bas (low kick) was a shin kick. So there are a lot of similarities between old savate and purring. Do they have a common origin? Either culturally from the wearing of clogs or similar shin kicking games in France or perhaps one actually led to the other. I did reach that English miners were imported to France after the Neoploanic wars to help its mining industry , this would be at the time savate historically appears. Considering this obvious similarity I can find no reference to anyone exploring it. Even the Book on savate by Prof. loudcher, which is very academic and well researched claims there is nothing like savate, that it is totally unique, while making no mention of purring. This seems odd and it would seem to be a interesting area of research.
I find the lack of felines in this video disappointing.
😁
Thank you for highlighting the instances where kicks were aimed above the shins. That's not something I expected.
Yes, it's a little unexpected I agree.
Collar & Elbow wrestling was extremely popular in the United States of America and was recorded as arriving by Welsh and Irish immigrants . Purring is recorded in American collar & elbow wrestling as kicking the shins with the inside of one's boots to facilitate a throw.
Perhaps in England they had much different rules.
Welsh and Irish Collar & Elbow Wrestling was the unarmed combat method taught to American civil war troops.
U.S. POTUS Abraham Lincoln was recorded as a Champion Collar & Elbow Wrestler.
POTUS Theodore Roosevelt was a Boxer then a Welsh Collar & Elbow Wrestler prior to his study of Kano Jiujitsu (Judo) which he declared Kano Jiujitsu (Judo) to be the superior unarmed self defense art.
POTUS George Washington was a renown collar & elbow wrestler in addition to a renown veteran of the war of independence resulting in British defeat.
Are any of their kicking techniques described? Are they snapping their feet out like savate people?
As yet we don't know much about specific technique.
The purring used with historical collar & elbow wrestling in the USA used kicks with the instep if the boot to target the shins in order to facilitate throws.
It's well recorded in American literature referencing American collar & elbow wrestling which often had Welsh or Irish roots in the USA.
That was ‘Perr’fect
If you are siting down and try to figure out the most insane form of Marital art. you can be shure that it has been tested.
Absolutely!
I learned something, just not about cats.
But what is the Etymology? Seems a weird word as a descriptor
The etymology is unclear. Some 19th books claim the word 'Purr" came into English through Welsh and ultimately goes back to an Irish word meaning to poke. However I've spent a long time going through old Welsh and Irish dictionaries and I have yet to find evidence to verify the above claim.
Just one thing. The head kick. You claim someone was kicked in the head whilst they were on the floor. Maybe they got a head kick whilst upright ...... just saying .... ......
It's possible, but based on all the other evidence I'd say unlikely.