nice try Chris I actually listen to your other podcasts and heard your problems with removing the dislike button and its even more important now since AI science channels are popping up with disinformation. This is the first SS episode I've heard such dishonesty from the whole table and I'm a female supporter but my god was this episode just skipping over ppls legitimate criticisms of ND.
Colin, can you help me understand when one should value games journalists' opinions? In your words it seems like they should be ignored most of the time, unless they happen to praise TLOU Part 2.
Also when they say good things about intergalactic especially when they will start saying “this has never been done before” even though we have seen this before a million times
He's not telling you to value the opinion of the game journalist. He likes the last of us part 2 not because game journalist like it but because he likes it. Collins opinion has always been form your own opinion divorced from critics and the gaming community mob.
I find the entire conversation about Intergalactic a waste of everybody's time. Pretends the game is happening in a vacuum and can't understand why the 100th game in the last 12 months, with THE MESSAGE on the forefront, is getting a pushback or selling poorly. "Oh being geh is woke now hAhAHhAH". We can have 10 games like Concord, which was the pure juice of propaganda, failing miserably and the issue will be gameplay, it's a new IP, it wasn't F2P, the genre is played out, the characters are boring or absolutely ANYTHING but, the point of these conversations. Why did Dragon Quest do somersaults around body type A/B when they address boys/girls armor in game? Why did Ragnarok race swap a character from Nordic mythology? Why did Veilguard use 2024 slangs in an medieval/fantasy setting? Why do we always NEED to bring all the luggage from the past decade to make a point when we are already over the "it's not happening, it's just your imagination" phase? The only comment that added anything meaningful to the conversation was this, 2:46:49. It was honest, it was the truth and probably what is really happening inside these studios. I find some Neil Druckmann memes funny but, they're not trying to be funny, they're just trying to be mean for the sake of it. He wanted to be the face of the studio and his work should be criticized but, the personal comments are not my thing.
So I’m curious.. what’s “THE MESSAGE”? There no way sci-fi is played out lol your telling me you’ve played a bunch of games that look like this? Stop please.
Remember when journalist said "everything is political" to defend when people got mad at certain games. Well it seems the horseshoe has wrapped around so much that now gamers have the same opinion, instead to justify the opposite.
It sounds like it is a you problem. This game looks like Dark souls. And yes I am tired of games like that too but I will probably be ready for this game in a few years.
This must be the most "gamer" comment I have ever read. It gave me a laugh. If you do think like this, and are older than 12, you should really go out and talk to some real people or maybe read some fiction over watching the 14th Gamers are mad because a game has a female lead in it youtube video
Colin is incapable of just being normal when it comes to Naughty Dog. It always has to be "this is the greatest thing ever, youre just missing it because blah blah blah" Impossible to accept that some people just might not be into the writing or character design.
If he thinks its one of the greatest games ever then why wouldn't he voice it on the gaming podcast he hosts and owns? If you disagree with his opinion then don't listen, he is putting out his opinion honestly, would you prefer he just lie?
@@jacobself1920 You couldn't have misunderstood this comment more. I have no issue with him thinking it's one of the greatest games, it's how he reacts to people who don't agree
@@DD-fs9xt It's art. I think Outer Wilds is the greatst game of all time, if a bunch of people disagreed I would also make it clear I thought they were wrong and try to elucidate why I think they are. When Colin talks about those who don't see what he see's in TLOU2 it bears no connection to them as people or anything, he just disagress with their opinion on a piece of art, and disagrees strongly. Isn't that what any meaningful and honest discussion around games necessitates?
@@jacobself1920 So you have the same problem then. Why not just accept that some people don't agree with you and enjoy the game. You can think that's the greatest game of all time, just don't lecture others who don't and make weird generalizations about them like Colin does
Haha exactly. The game will flop. They’re crazy if they think people won’t boycott… people are over politics and dei in entertainment. They’re smoking way too much hopium.
It's pathetic they've completely lost me . They can't see how woke libtards inside all these companies not caring about there audience and making weirdo lefty characters is destroying these studios.
2:39:33 Lol at Chris saying that adding the TH-cam dislike button back is “terminally online” as if that wasn’t a feature for 15 years before TH-cam removed it
I think you are missing the point of what he was saying. To care enough about it to go back and add it in is another level of TH-camness that the majority of TH-cam viewers simply don’t have in them.
@@MitchellMiller1 I would agree if TH-cam never had a dislike button for most of its life and then adding one now would be weird, but adding back a popular feature isn’t that crazy imo. Plus, I think its usually a good tool to see the general consensus on things good or bad
@@MitchellMiller1 I think the fact that people defend that it was removed says more then anything wanting it back would say. The reality is: It's not toxic gamers that is killing devs like Naughty Dog, it's the toxic positivity in those dev studios. They have a culture where every action and choice they make must be viewed as correct and anyone that dislikes their actions is a hater and some form of an -ist so they just push forward regardless of what the customers are saying.
@@BrandonHeat243 Can you give me a SINGLE EXAMPLE of a studio as prolific as Naughty Dog that was "killed" by toxic positivity? Not even Naughty Dog is dying, so I don't even know what you are talking about. And so help me if you try to use Bungie as your example. XD
@@MitchellMiller1 I was thinking specifically of Ubisoft with my comment. And it's undeniable. Look at the AC Shadows stuff. Making the MC of AC Japan a brother was an objectively bad decision. It has zero precedent in the series and was clearly just a political stunt. And how has Ubisoft reacted? They doubled down and called everyone that didn't like that clearly awful decision an -ist. And Naughty Dog isn't dying yet because they haven't released a new game in 4 years. Can't fail if you don't have any products out that can fail.
Well it's true in this case. Oh, and I'll give you a tip. Generally women don't like to be referred to as 'females'. Give it a try next time you leave your basement.
Excluding all of the bad faith arguments, last of us 2 and joker 2 are divisive for their content intentionally by the creators who even admit it. So saying that everyone who doesn’t like a story for how the story plays out is either wrong or just too dumb to comprehend is pretentious. Collin has always been respected for his honest views and advocating to vote with your wallet, but on one of the last episodes he flips by telling us to ignore bad advertising or how a game looks and to step out of our comfort zone and buy the game or we can’t have an opinion on it.
Why do cars have to look cool? Why do clothes have to be fashionable? Why do houses have to look neat? Why does food have to look appetizing? Why is this a F N mystery when it comes to fictional characters to look pleasing?
Bad analogy. Food doesn't have to look appetising to be enjoyable, clothes don't have to look fashionable to be functional. And a character doesn't need to be attractive to fulfil their purpose in a narrative.
@@madsines5301And yet everything you listed would be products that wouldn’t sell to most customers. Basically you described the possessions of some fictional refugee. Most people don’t want shit that’s unappealing to the eye it’s not difficult.
@@madsines5301 Narrative is a concept people that watch a 1 minute trailer and immediately focus on the characters looks probably have difficulty grasping.
You guys must-at some level-understand people's preference for aesthetics. It is not a coincidence that the majority of Hollywood actors are beautiful. It is not a coincidence that male and female leads are generally good-looking and gender-confirming. To think it wouldn't apply to games is naive. There are many legitimate critiques of Naughty Dog regarding its story, characters, pacing, etc. Just as there are many issues you (Colin) have with The Last Jedi that are not unfounded, similar issues can exist on games you love. Also, I implore you to stop looking or acknowledging the most bad faith takes out there. These takes typically lack nuance and represent a more collective frustration than an actual coherent point. Grumzz is a symptom, not a cure. He is echoing what some people are feeling and badly articulating these points for clout. One final note- please don't police arguments unless it's explicitly offensive. Part of the fun of game discussions is heated back and forth. It's disappointing if a monoculture of "best friends" (who coincidentally all repeat the same points) arose.
The funny thing about The Last Jedi (in how Dustin brought it up as an example of bad writing for Luke) is that he is doing precisely what he is accusing others of doing with TLOU pt. 2. Dustin couldn't handle Rian Johnson's "bold" decisions. Luke is a stubborn and whiney kid for most of the OG trilogy, watch it again if you think otherwise. His character in TLJ is totally in line with his actions in the previous trilogy, but I totally get why some fanboys didn't like it. Not being able to see that irony is a big part of the "problem" here.
@Epiousios18 "His character in TLJ is totally in line with the previous trilogy" Wow. Hard disagree on this one. Even Mark Hamil himself said Luke's motivations in TLJ made no sense.
I have literally not heard of one legit criticism of tlou2 that isn't extremely loaded or reduced to "too woke." There are also actors all the time who aren't traditionally attractive like Steve Buscemi, Anthony Hopkins, Meryl Streep, Melissa McCarthy who are amazing at what they do and people like watching them. So to say that games NEEDS anime-esque big titty waifu characters is a terrible argument and laughable. Imagine getting mad at a game because you can't get a boner from watching the female lead. How about you just don't play it? But people take it a step further and spend all their time actively hating the game with deranged comments.
@@billclay2701let's be real, Colin & co. are blacklisted by Sony. That's why Neil Druckmann will never be on the show. However Colin claims to be friends with him, so he is clearly bias in some way. It's not that bad compared with like Kinda Funny. won't even touch political topics or leaks etc. because they are friends with the industry. Getting a lot of early previews, free stuff and getting paid to do promotions.
Yeah, the Naughty Dog shilling on LSM cuts deep. A big part of what makes or breaks a game for many is art style, world building, and character design. People watching a trailer where enough of a display of these items is available and deciding they're not interested is totally valid.
I haven't seen a great reception to it either from the playstation audience, nor the wider gaming audience I'm hoping Santa Monica's game will be more exciting and with a better direction, I have faith in them to deliver
If you don't care about Playstation Studios games only having female protagonists and are confused that others aren't into it, that's fine but you should accept their preference. Heck, the number one argument I see for the inclusion of more female protagonists in games is that it makes women feel more welcome, because they don't relate to the standard herotype. Well, obviously the inverse is also going to be true, dudes aren't aren't going to be drawn to playing as women who are LGBT (Aloy & Ellie) - and that's probably why they assumed the Intergalatic protag will also be, it's basic pattern recognition. 'diversity fatigue' is a valid criticism IMO, because like Dustin said, "geez, another character like this?" is a common sentiment, and statistics show men are still the primary consumers of these types of games, they're the core audience. The reactionary pendulum has swung way too far one way, where the traditional male protagonist is now uncommon in AAA. I'd say it's the main audience that listens to this very podcast, and if THAT's who you were referring to when you said you want to 'clean up this community' then you're going to face some backlash.
Brother we are HUMAN, the word diversity around this context shouldn't even be a thing but over thousands & thousands of years, we have somehow separated ourselves from others because of gender or colors. Why can't we just relate to someone because theyre human, why do they have to look a certain way.
You guys are arguing in such bad faith when talking about naughty dog criticism You painted everyone with the incel brush and how we're all just malicious haters and "oh they couldn't handle the bold choices in tlou2 because they're babies" like.. what?
The strawman they role out every time it comes to defending TLoU2 is genuinely painful to listen to. God forbid they actually talk with someone who thought the game was bad.
Any creative product is fair play for judgement it’s just unfortunate that a large majority of the ND criticism is presented in such poor manner and bad faith. It drowns out legitimate criticism and conversation.
Doesn't the insane reaction to the Entergalactic teaser kind of prove their point? I mean we have seen no gameplay and people are already losing their shit. Same thing happened when TLOU2 got spoiled before release. We never got to talk about serious criticism because most people only did it after whining about a story beat that they disliked and all kinds of culture war bullshit. After that a lot people dont care about valid criticism you may have.
I'm not someone that thinks female character automatically equals woke/bad. That being said, just look at the look on this character's face. Is that someone you want to spend 10 to 15 hours with?
What's wrong with her face? That's one of the prettiest actresses on the planet. Too bad the average "gamer" like yourself expects all female game characters to be Tifa or Stellar Blade lead, whatever her name is smh
@@hotcoldman77 I see reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. There's nothing wrong with her face. There is something very off putting about the look on her face and her smug demeanor. Her facial expressions are the problem. Not her face itself.
What is this? You talk as if there is no legitimate criticism of Naughty Dog, TLoU 2, or Druckmann. There are countless videos, articles, and podcasts with considered critiques, yet you disregard all of that as baseless or "deranged". Echo chamber.
Every time Colin says he "doesn't understand" why people dislike TLoU2, I die a little bit inside. It's fine if he likes it, but maybe listen to someone with a different opinion and then you'd understand!
Echo chamber is right. They act as if the opposition to the Last of Us 2 and now Intergalactic is just dumb and without substance. Couldn't possibly be that people have worthwhile criticism.
@@Atare617 What if people aren't interested in playing as a butch, androgynous, 'badass' fem protag? What if they have reservations about the writing/story after the catastrophe of TLoU2?
@@lastoftheb00mers When you look at the criticism (legit) about the game it basically boils down to the fact that trailer shows little about the game. That in itself is completely fair and not uncommon in the industry. Should that be enough to warrant hundreds of articles and youtube videos about the game. Not a chance. Look at the trailer itself, TECHNICALLY, it looks fantastic. People's mileage will vary with the content but it looks visually slick and we know that ND are at the top of the mountain when it comes to mocap. So yea, criticism is cool but the fact that most content isn't even about what the game is going to be about kinda reveals everything about the source of the hate
So all citicism of the game, except for that "Character dying", is ignored. Just all a bunch of woke-hating whiners, huh?! Wow, the cope is strong this episode, that was really embarassing to watch, the only thing that could have made this worse if Neil Druckmann, had walked in, asking if somebody needed something to drink, whilst simping for Naughty Dog.
Did you even watch the video. Dustin en Chris have a lot criticism of TLOU2. But we hardly ever get to have that conversation, because people build their criticism of the game around a story beat they did not like.
Colin is reputable & trustworthy on these topics until it involves someone he knows personally like Neil Druckmann... at that point, throw Colin's opinion out of the window lol smh. The funny thing is, if Colin had been defending liberal ideologues & towing the line this hard a few years back, he'd still be friends with Greg Miller & he'd still have a job at Kinda Funny or IGN lol smh. y'all sound like the people who say you're a bigot if you like the original Star Wars trilogy but don't like Star Wars Acolyte. liberals calling everyone bigots who don't agree with their opinions, while actively NOT addressing the points they bring up, is the classic liberal straw-man & its why Trump won the election. obviously, we know Colin is a conservative, but him hanging around far left liberals like David Jaffe, Chris & Dustin so much is starting to rot Colin's brain a little bit. Colin's wife is a black woman, so she's most likely a liberal too & its likely having an influence on Colin.
Those conversations about and surrounding Intergalactic was so disingenuous and reductive that I'm completely disappointed by the sacred crew. How unfortunate.
Glad we had another hour+ of Colin defending The Last of Us again. It would be alright if he actually discussed the issues people have with recent ND titles, however he just builds a stupid straw man and attacks that instead.
@@dtanobo yea but why focus on those people? Wouldnt it make for good content to discuss actual valid criticisms instead of the nonsense? Very frustrating to listen to.
@@305antivenom Like Dustin and even more so Chris are those people since especially Chris didn't like the game. He did a whole spoilercast with Micah who didn't like the game. It's just that the people who are the loudest, unfortunately poison the well of discourse and not only that, the normal people who didn't like the game, didn't make talking about it a nightmare for years
TLOU2 is absolutely the The Last Jedi of video games right down the the bad writing and character assassinations that are indeed Dustin subverting the audiences expectations for the sake of “muh themes” and not making sense narratively
Maybe he just legit loves the game like thousands of people do like myself. The fact that the only reason he could like tlou2 is because he's friends with Neil is a pathetic and cringy argument.
@@Unit17 I think the OP's point was that Colin seemingly will not entertain any substantial criticism of TLoU 2. I agree, though, that that's because he just likes the game a lot.
And before someone goes: well maybe he just doesnt like those games made recently... yeah and maybe we arnt exactly "amazed" by the last of us two AND naughty dogs just releasing remasters for the last of us games.
Neil Druckman is not woke? I don't know him. I do know he had Anita Sarkeesian as a consultant some years back. I do know he certainly makes woke games, where pregnant doctors are cleared for combat runs in a post apocalyptic survivors group because girl bosses be girl bossing. I don't know that, but I suspect ND cannot see how unsympathetic their new characters are because disliking somebody with that many DEI-checkmarks is illegal in their mind. I hope Intergalactic is good. But their main character had a not the best or most endearing introduction. Did I immediately wanna go on an adventure with Nathan Drake? Hell yeah! With Joel? You bet. With Chloe? Sure! With Nadine? No. With Ellie? Still yes, bit it turned out f*ed. With Jordan? No. There is much marketing to come, but as of now, no.
The ignorance is palpable. It seems that Colin's love for TLOU II has prevented him from listening to any criticism of it. Most people assumed that what happened to that character was going to happen somehow. It's the way it was executed that people don't like. Yes, what happened does make sense, but it's the writing and the timing that pissed people off. It's also how the character was treated and they didn't act how they should. There's been plenty of criticism of the game. From the writing, to the pacing, to the gameplay, to the characters. There a ton of it that you seem to have ignored completely. There's multiple reasons that people don't like Neil Druckmann. One is obviously TLOU II. Another is how Naughty Dog false copyright striked TH-camrs and Neil was talking about how he wanted that and was okay with it. Even pointing out certain videos. There's also that speech he gave about how much he liked Anita Sarkeesian and how women being portrayed as sexy is misogynistic. He also said that originally the infected were all going to be women, but he thought that was misogynistic, so they changed it. Even though it could be an interesting concept if done right. It does seem he's woke contrary to Colin's opinion.
I think that it is nice of him to be this accepting of a game no one knows anything about. Do you know? Sometimes it is better to chill out because you know that you will not change the game in any way. So if you don't like what you see that is always ok. I hate sports games so I don't play them. And I would never comment on a video of any of these shit games ever.😅
@@Alienshade Uncharted is my favorite video game franchise. I also liked the first Last of Us. I would love to buy another Naughty Dog game, but I don't like the direction Neil Druckmann has taken them in since TLOU II. I'm not saying I'll never get this. If I hear good things from people I trust and it seems like a game I'd like, then I will. I think a lot of people upset about it are in a similar boat. I bet there is some people who would never be interested in playing that type of game regardless of quality that are complaining, but I think there's so much backlash, because most are fans of old Naughty Dog and they don't like the direction they're going in. Also, I think it's good to criticize something if you have problems with it. Maybe it won't change anything with that game, but those criticisms may be considered next time. I don't think you should necessarily just accept what they put in front of you. Even though there's not much we know about the game. We can still analyze and criticize what we do know and with it being this early, maybe there will be change if people criticize it. I wouldn't hold my breath though lol.
Colin is making a habit of completely misrepresenting people's genuine criticisms when it comes to character designs or modern politics interjected into games. He's slowly turning into Chris. He was the only voice we had in the games media that would represent our views in a genuine way, but now he's acting like the rest of them. Really disappointing,
If Chris, Dustin and Colin can’t understand the Intergalactic hate, they won’t understand the NaughtyDog/Neil Druckman hate. By Colin calling it “derangement”.. he’s already biased and calling the dislike unwarranted. and no.. it’s not just about Joel dying, that has a role to play in it. The “undeniable quality of their games” was revelant in 2016 with Uncharted 4, and even that was met with a background of deep development issues with them pushing out Amy Hennig and Neil rising to a more prodominent role in the studio. One thing that was noted with Uncharted 4 was Nadine. She was the “strong, black woman” in the game that was undeniably put there in response to Neil’s CLEAR feministic views about women characters in video games and how they are portrayed in games, including Anita Sarkasian working on projects and Neil working on projects with her. Uncharted Lost Legacy wasn’t a bad game, although it did have 2 female leads.. I don’t think people really cared or noticed. They were already established characters and they played well off of eachother. Nothing seems “in your face” politically. The rollout leading up to TLOU2 was great. The teaser trailers/gameplay trailers/tv spots were all great, the interviews about it were great. Neil saying, “We’ll do right by you” set well with the community. The last trailer with Joel appearing at the end put to bed that everyone’s fear that Joel was just dead throughout the game. It meant Joel would have a more active role in the story. Fast forward and the leaks come out the came how Joel dies 2-3 hours into the beginning of the game (telling us that trailer was false advertisement). . Not to mention all the diffrent reviews not including the second half of the game with Abby. and Sony striking channels who talked about the spoilers. We have a character who looks trans (we know she is a woman).. but she resembles Neil’s idea of what strong women look like. There are many story and writing elements (not just Joel’s death).. that are poorly handled, and we have the ending of the game.. which makes very little sense. Afterwards we have voice actors like Troy and developers like Druckman coming out calling people who dislike the game bigots, racists and transphobes, essentially dismissing all criticism that wasn’t just about Abby looking like a trans character. All while this is happening, Disney is making decisions in movies and tv shows to push more left leaning content. Fast foward to 2022-2024. We have female lead games with bad writing, woke”/DEI agendas. Dustin is right to a degree that part of the issue is the traditional male protagonist archetype is being burnt to the ground. We see saw this with Suidicde Squad KTJL.. We have terrible dialogue ridden Forespoken.. we have Sweet Baby Inc causing issue with game companies. We have ND cancelling Factions 2, and putting out what seems like 5 different remakes/remasters of the same game. Intergalatic The Hereitic Prophet comes out with this asian bald woman with a shit eating grin personality while sucking on a straw with another female character who sounds like she smokes with an eyepatch and fans are just tired of it. Neil has turned into someone who i think would rather make movies and he thinks he’s a better writer than what he actually is.
@@Bungycb Sure, especially if it goes to to the level of making you believe a character would be alive, and an active part of the story when in actually he wasn’t. they literally swapped the Joel character for Jesse in the scene. It was close to release too. .so it wasn’t just an old trailer.... the story was already finished at that point in development. The misleading element was intentional to get people to buy the game.
As expected, Colin and Co. Are completely out of touch on Intergalactic. I am not Anti-Woke but nobody likes being gaslit. People haven't forgotten Pt2's marketing that suggested that Joel would be in the game more than he was. Pt1 also didn't have the Fireflies as altruistic heroes, they stole Joel's guns when they were the reward for returning Ellie. I doubt in-game Joel would know, but you can't make a vaccine for a fungal virus. Their doctor going, immediately to "Hey, let's kill Ellie" instead of examining her, and running tests just shows how incompetent the Fireflies are. There was no moral Grey decision at the end of Pt1, Joel did what he had to. My only issue with Pt1's ending was not showing Joel taking as many guns with him as he could once the building was cleared. Pt2 is just Gaslight, the video game. Joel bad, the cycle of violence bad, the Fireflies good actually! Look at Bear the dog! Don't you want to pet Bear before Ellie kills him and calls him a fucker?! Isn't Abby awesome?! Ellie bad!! If Neil wasn't Colin's personal friend I think this game would be rightly hated the same way Star Wars: The Last Jedi is. Being subversive doesn't make you a brilliant writer; it means you have to bring your A-game to make it work, and it just didn't for a large amount of people. If you want to see Pt2's themes done better in every way possible outside of graphics, play Yakuza 0. I will never take away from Naughty Dog's technical ability to develop, to make things look gorgeous, or their efforts to normalize gay folks like Ellie. That being said, I just don't trust Neil as a writer. Without Bruce or Amy, Pt2 was bloated, sloppy, and the lore of Pt1 was bent and broken to fulfill his vision. Like Colin rants about books being taken out of the canon, what is the point in caring about Joel, Ellie, and the universe built in Pt1 if they are going to toss it all away for cheap shock slop? I'm sure you'll give it a 12/10 anyway Colin, then make 4 spoiler casts defending your friend just to counter the vitriol towards the game and Neil himself. Pt2 was just a mediocre title and Naughty Dog has to earn their right to be considered a premier PlayStation studio again with Intergalactic. The trailer was just bad; it doesn't tell you anything about the world, the name sucks, and to glean any information, you HAVE to read Neil's write-up. There are bad signs and red flags all over the place; the Gooners are less than 5% of this conversation, even if they are the loudest. Get off Twitter and talk with good-faith actors who didn't like the trailer, and they'll tell you the same I have.
That one publishing guy from Larian Studios said it best - you can't just dismiss the culture stuff prevalent in today's world that affects games and devs have to learn to navigate it, at least on this triple-A level of operating. Considering the resources, time, and technical capability of studio like Naughty Dog, I think they must consider their mass appeal without compromising on their vision significantly, and with Niel at the wheel its probably not likely going forward.
Why do you care about mass appeal? What difference does it make that a game sells well to you? This criticism is ridiculous because it is so obvious that you are working backwards. You decide you don't like a direction a game/studio is going and you try and find a "legitimate" reason. Please just be honest with your criticism.
I personally care coz simultaneously am a fan and respect Naughty Dog and their output through the generations, and want them to do commercially as well as they do critically, because there are only a few that could rival their lod's and technical mastery, and don't wanna see them go on a downward spiral in likeness to Bioware, Bethesda, etc... that's why sales are THE factor like it or not, especially on this triple A elite level, when they are tasked to make a game that would fire on every cylinder imaginable, innovation, relevancy, critical and mass appeal, sales. I haven't decided anything yet but I'm most likely gonna buy it on day 1 coz of all the mentioned above, I'm just arguing in the name of those who hold anti-ND sentiment... I'm not the one who needs extra convincing but many potential players do. This is the most honest I can be, having a nuanced perspective while still hoping ND succeeds but noticing a concerning trend.
@@conor8223 This new trend of people caring so deeply about sales is so bizarre. Who gives a fuck if a game sells 5 copies or 5 million as long as it's a good game? Intergalactic could be the biggest gaming flop of all time and there's still zero chance Naughty Dog gets shut down. Just further proves to me that these people don't even like gaming, they like arguing on social media to score points.
I love you guys but I really can't listen to 'Colin defends TLOU2' again. Yes ND hate is extreme, totally agree, but the defensiveness surrounding all criticism is just annoying at this point.
I think it's the exact opposite. Naughty Dog Derangement Syndrome absolutely exists. It's the derangement of their sycophant fans that will defend anything they do and not accept ANY criticism. They're amongst the most insane groups of people I've encountered on the internet. And that's saying something. Naughty Dog used to be my favourite developer, but I won't accept and blindly defend when they release a bad product. This trailer was terrible and easily the worst part of the show, but hopefully the game will turn out to be good. They need a win after the The Last of Us 2 debacle and their online Last of Us not even being good enough to get released.
Agreed. The guys, especially Colin, talk as if there is basically no legitimate criticism of ND, TLoU2, or Druckmann. Not only that, but because they haven't considered these alternative perspectives, they consistently misrepresent them. Very annoying.
Genuine question - Why do you think the trailer was terrible? I don't think it was a HUGE standout compared to some others I'm more excited for, but I wouldn't say it was bad at all. My thoughts: The game looks graphically gorgeous, showed off some cool art direction, teased the cast, had some awesome music by Trent & Atticus, and ended with a very cool title drop and gameplay tease. My main critique is that it was a bit too long. But the mystery of who the developer was kept me engaged for the reveal, even if I did have a feeling that it was ND.
@@TheLunarVaux I liked the last bit of the trailer and might've been more positive if we got more of that. I generally don't like purely cinematic trailers, unless it's for a sequel, where one has more of an idea what the gameplay etc might look like. I also couldn't stand the voice acting of the character on the screen. I thought the dialogue came across as trying too hard to fall under a 2020s 'quirky' writing style. I thought the character designs were unpleasant and that the lead character was a really poor representation of her actress. Being forced to see Kumail Nanjiani is an immediate massive negative. At least it's not Seth Rogen, I suppose. The trailer had terrible placement, as a final reveal of the entire show carries a lot of weight and requires something more substantial, such as gameplay, or at least more information. And lastly, I felt like it was completely tone-deaf to release a reveal trailer with that tone, look and that setting, only months after Concord released.
We need to stop pretending like criticism of TLOU2 is anything other than 90% mob anti-woke backlash. There is legitimate criticism but it is guaranteed not going to be found in the comments section.
@@LastMinuteGuess There are literally dozens of videos breaking down precisely what's wrong with the TLoU 2, but sure, keep pretending it's just the "anti-woke mob".
You guys’ take on intergalactic is kind of showing that you’re kind of losing touch with “norma”l gamers … look at suicide squad, veil guard, the new assassins creed, that Sony game that just lost $200m (can’t even remember the name now cause it’s already irrelevant)
You’re no different from the hardcore feminists of the 2010s. Constantly crying and offended every time a new piece of media comes out. Obsessed with analyzing media and gender. Stop being so sensitive.
Can't believe Chris cited Suicide Squad as an example of a "successful" game that faced similar backlash. These people have completely lost the plot. If anything the LSM crew are the ones with anti-Naughty Dog derangement syndrome.
The fact that you guys are admitting that Intergalactic will sell less than prior ND games is an admittance that you aren’t impressed with what you have seen
Intergalactic just didn't look very good for a variety of reasons. The Witcher 4 looked substantially better in comparison (and the numbers back that up) despite still having an actual loud/deranged minority speak out against it.. Colin and co. are increasingly out of touch on this specific issue. Maybe they have "anti-woke derangement syndrome" and are seemingly incapable of understanding why even a "normal " gamer is starting to get sick of certain tropes being used in modern games. I enjoy their discussions on 99% of topics on this show but they seem to have lost the plot on this one thing. I'd also like to add that the whole "people who disagree with me are just terminally online losers" is part of the reason that some people are starting to be unable to see the nuance on this stuff.
@ besides the fact your comment is just being purposefully dense, you are wrong. W4 was pre-rendered but not “CGI.” It was made in-engine with in-game models and assets on what is likely a 5090. That is roughly what the game will look like on high end PCs. As someone who’s played Hellblade 2 on a 4090 that isn’t surprising at all. Regardless, both trailers were made to give a general idea of the game and communicate its aesthetic and atmosphere to players. One clearly was received much better than the other in doing so.
@ visually? 100% - that’s roughly what it will look like. Those were in-game models and assets. It isn’t 2007 anymore, you’ll need a $3k+ PC for it to look like that, but that’s the ballpark of what future UE5 games will look like. As I said, that was only marginally better than Hellblade on a 4090 in most areas.
Don't you think it might be that The Witcher is part of an established franchise, with the last being a monumental success, and one being a new IP, so many people who don't know about who made TLOU or Uncharted, don't know they're making this game? It's a silly comparison to make. Of course a sequel to a beloved game will gather more attention than a new IP. I thought that would be self explanatory.
@Dan-hz4vf I thought it was self explanatory that Ididnt mean they are not real life besties... but ok...nevertheless he really agrees with Anita's insane ramblings and has used her as a consultant... so that in itself is a nett negative for Naughty Dog. If anything can be called woke she is and he listens when she speaks.
This isnt complicated Colin and LSM crew; if people can like the trailer and up vote it (and you have zero issue with that- which I dont have either), you cant pretend the guys who do the opposite are "out of touch" for judging it negatively based on the same trailer.
Having incredible difficulty relating to the main character in a long narrative epic is a real problem. These types of games need to cater to the majority audience or risk backlash. In titles where create-a-character is a thing, this isn’t an issue.
@@bigtee2000That's usually the line that's given, yes. Then they don't play the game, and that quickly changes to a more aggressive stance demanding patronage from the studios and publishers.
@@impomars well, not everyone identifies with a smug narcissist whom the fictional universe itself constantly validates. Which is what many of these contemporary characters kinda are, and Intergalactic is...suggestive of.
Joel had it coming. Years of being a hunter and his murder of an entire hospital staff and security, and that’s his just desserts. That people didn’t see it coming is baffling.
Why does Colin act like there aren't real criticisms with NaughtyDog? Stop focusing on the morons on the internet who just moan about women and "wOkE". TLOU2's story and writing is piss poor compared to the 1st. The gameplay is underrated though which is a shame. That's not even mentioning how other PS studios have caught up to ND too. They aren't the main draw as they used to be in the PS3 generation.
I spent half if not less time with characters like Tess, Sam, Henry, Bill, David, Riley and care more about them than Owen, Mel, Dina, Jesse, Manny, Abby etc. I get the idea but the execution didn't work for me and I found the plot bloated and poorly paced. Just having a big decision at the start about Joel or making you play as Abby didn't really make/break the game for me, the hours after just weren't that great story wise imo. The world also seems less brutal than the one built on in the 1st game. I'm interested to see if the format works better in TV show though. To each their own but I wish Colin would focus on these criticisms and other reasonable ones rather than just the online mob of unfuckable incels.
I’ve bought 80-90% of ND games since the original Crash Bandicoot. There is zero chance I buy this game unless the main character is literally changed. I’m all good on this type of character for the rest of my life
F’ing same dude. I’ve liked all of their games, even last of us 2. But this character broke me. The sad part is this game is exactly what I would have wanted. I just don’t like the character.
All the SS guys had to say was "if you're not into the whole 'badass' masculine woman protag, then fair enough, this game might not be for you". But no...
Naughty Dog is now a studio where the now struggling writing and character teams are absolutely carried by the stellar graphics, environment artist, and gameplay teams - we’ll see how long that can work
Hahaha, these people using game journalists' opinions as the paramount metric to judge a product are delusional. Keep trying to pretend the subpar writing in TLOU2 is something to be commended.
People don't hate Naughty Dog enough. I'll be rejoicing in Colin's tears in this episode. Hopefully the gaming industry starts healing and wanna-be movie directors get ejected from their current positions, opening space for talented and creative people. Neil Druckmann would do great in Hollywood, plenty of subpar writers and copycats for him to work with. TLOU2 writing gives him perfect credentials to join the club.
To me it is strange to see people hate games. I mean 80% of all games are probably not for you. I mean how do you have the energy to hate all those bad games? I really don't like 99% of all sports games. But I don't give it any energy.
Perhaps some of the criticism is just badly articulated. What might boil down to "oh no, a woman" in your discussion about the criticism would actually have more nuance and be about how Jordan is completely unsympathetic, even if she was a guy, when further probing why people actually don't like her. I want more from my main character than being a cocky boss babe. I hope we will get that from Jordan, but NDs trajectory has been downhill for a while, for me.
At first I was pumped about the ending Naughty Dog conversation, but much like the infamous 2-part TLOU2 spoilercast, lots of words were said yet nothing was said at all.
This is my first ever criticism to be honest. It's frustrating the Sacred crew is trying to address peoples problems but so widely missing the mark on why so many people are upset/angry in the first place. Repeatedly calling it "derangement" is so belittling and condescending. I feel like the show desperately needs someone on from the anti woke side, who can articulate points to the hosts, because they come across as trying to tackle a subject they can't/don't understand. This is coming from a day one fan of Colin and the show, and also who's favourite studio is Naughty Dog! :)
Jesus Christ. Too bold? What is bold about intergalactic trailer? Product placement in your face, unlikable characters. Like another game with a tough smart ass female lead with a shaved head is pretty played out. The problem is if it’s done well, people wouldn’t care. But with the one super expensive first impression we got, it ain’t it. Leave it to a bunch of dudes who play videos games all day and talk about it for a job to create a straw man that these white knights have to knock down. Smh
I just hope we can still separate the derangement from real criticism. There are good and bad reasons for liking/disliking anything. For example Trump Derangement syndrome is absolutely a thing but that doesn't mean every single person who doesn't like Trump is deranged about it and the same applies to Naughty Dog.
Except I haven’t seen any real criticism for disliking naughty dog surrounding this. All I have seen is people crying woke, or that he supports genocide which neither of those things are true.
@marcushankins8171 how have you not seen legitimate criticism? 😂 did you somehow miss the last game they made? Not to mention are you really gonna defend them following this mega weird trend of making all women in games look as bad as possible?
@@marcushankins8171 The distinction is immaterial at this point. The reality is there's a ton of negativity associated with the Naughty Dog brand, justified or not. This is not an online vocal minority, it's clearly not going away, and it will affect sales to a significant degree. Complaining about it being unfair, ignoring and/or doubling down will not change the situation. As Naughty Dog, your choices are: 1. Lower your budget by cutting corners/scaling back so your game is still profitable with lower sales 2. Stay the course and prepare for more lay-offs 3. Make compromises and try to appease fans
Yeh compares new ip for a single player game getting destroyed with dislikes…. Compares it to call of duty lol. You’re applying the same argument used towards dragon age and Star Wars, which both performed poorly. Also the dismissiveness towards pattern recognition, maybe let me help you: overwhelming amount of female protagonist in AAA games, most people who buy games are males, make protagonist represent the nonbinary sect of the consumer base, now you have a pattern of the same narrative in every game but spread through genres, now you have dilution of the consumers. With that said, it’s fine they make this game but I’m sure they aren’t expecting this to be popular and sell well, you would have to be an idiot at this point to assume so.
The only people I've seen bring up the baldness of the Intergalactic lady are the people complaining about the people complaining. The people complaining about the trailer itself all seem to dislike that she seems like a smug asshole.
I've watched the trailer several times and didn't get "smug asshole" out of it...but even if that's true, how is that not an obvious bounty hunter trope? Why is it a problem if she's a smug asshole...especially when we have ZERO context for when this part of the story is in the game and why she has the attitude she does. The internet is an ill and depressing place lol.
Dude, a lot of popular TH-camrs are literally saying that exact thing.. and just look at comments of all those followers .. so no it’s not the people complaining about the people complaining lol..
Did you not first see the comments on intergalactic before they got turned off? You would be saying this with a straight face without the wild things being said there.
@MitchellMiller1 As a general rule of thumb people don't like smug characters. Where it tends to work best is when it's followed by an immediate comeuppance. For example: Anytime Han Solo got too full of himself it was immediately followed by the Millenium Falcon light speed not working or Leia kissing her brother.
@itzMarcMan I don't tend to watch a lot of gaming TH-camrs, but all the thumbnails I've seen are the shot of Intergalactic lady sipping the soda while Glenn Close tells her about the dangerous situation. I think that shot in particular is what turned a lot of people off. Obviously there are just some straight up sexists, but I think writing off all detractors of the trailer as such is disingenuous.
@ tells a lot these days. Pretty sad when I asked my wife what she thought and she said it all looked really lame. What’s the point of appealing to 5% of gamers?
I feel that for this conversation to be more productive, you need at least one person from the other side who can present the actual argument. This way, you are not just arguing with imaginary opponents to defeat them. I strongly recommend considering having at least one straight man on the panel next time.
I’m sorry did Dustin literally say the backlash for intergalactic is dumb? It’s actually pathetic how much they Shill for Sony studios. I play on PlayStation and I’m saying this. 👀 It’s pathetic how they’re trying not to get canceled so bad that they can’t even be genuine with their responses about Naughty Dog. 🤣
It's really one of Colin's biggest flaws, is how much he shills (unfortunately don't have a better word) for Sony and especially Naughty Dog, they haven't even made a "game" in close to a decade. Like everyone has there preferred way of play yadda yadda, but at least have the integrity to criticize the stuff you love too. I love Nintendo, I usually buy a lot of their first party games, but I'm still gonna bemoan them cancelling a Splatoon Tournament over the use of Melee at a different tournament.
It is dumb. LSM's audience is filled with right wing neckbeards who like to use the space as an echo chamber because they will literally be laughed at everywhere else on the internet but convince themselves that they are being reasonable.
In what way is a backlash against a three minute trailer not dumb? I'm sure you're right that Colin is slightly biased - he sort of admitted it himself - but to hate something because a woman is in it strikes me as orders of magnitude more ideologically captured.
There is, and always has been since release, valid and completely warranted criticisms of the Last of Us Part II's narrative, direction, and characters. **NakeyJakey's video on it, Erik Kain's review from Forbes (who also defended Chris Avellone), Suggestive Gaming's video on it, etc. and so on.** It's not because of any surface level, vapid reasons like "it's woke" or "Abby is 'x' or isn't 'y'," that the loud minority is flaunting online which is LARGELY what the 'Naughty Dog derangement' segment is railing against. There are plenty of videos and articles online from well-respected people who've laid out their thoughts respectfully on that sentiment. Yes, a lot of the hate Intergalactic is getting online is from the loud minority who have bad faith arguments, but I think plenty of people who were fans of Naughty Dog are just skeptical and worried going forward after playing TLOU II. Naughty Dog is undeniably one of the most prolific and high quality PlayStation first parties around and PS first-party releases frankly come up more sparingly than many fans would like. It's difficult to come to terms with the fact that you are no longer the target audience for a once fan-favorite studio or one of the biggest first-party devs on your preferred platform. Personally, I don't want to sit through another 35 hour experience where I hate playing half of it because a large portion of the game is not resonating with me. But it's a first party title, we don't get those every day, I would like to be part of the conversation, and I like to finish games. At the same time, will I rail against the dev or director online with vitriolic messages? No. But I don't think most people who feel the same way I do will either. We just won't buy the game. How about, instead of a SS+ episode talking to Hoeg for the 3rd time in two months (love ya Hoeg but it's a lot) about dense and esoteric business dealings in the video game industry, Colin reaches out to folks who have talked openly about their well-thought out, analytical criticisms about TLOU II's narrative issues and have a civil conversation about it. Colin's always talking about how he likes hearing different opinions and is open to debate, right? I know I for one would love for my Patreon dollars to go to a one-off discussion episode like that! It's been four years, ND just announced another game, why not?
Colin, how about giving Bruce Staley credit for TLOU success instead of always mentioning your boy Neil, after all Part One was the much more successful game in terms of sales. Funny how with the Last of us part one success, it always seems Neil takes the credit for it all and never have I seen him once in any interview after the success of the show and the 2 games releases give any credit to Bruce. Bruce did co-direct the game as well yet you never hear about him or even think about him when anyone mentions TLOU. If you guys still don’t understand the public vitriol for part 2 and naughty dog then maybe you guys don’t understand some of your audience, it’s more than just about taking out Joel… 😒
Fun fact, if we ALL don't pay taxes they can't jail everyone. I really don't understand why all Americans can't band together and simply not pay their taxes simultaneously
The Irish actually did something like this and it worked. They tried to install water lines and make them start paying for water. The Irish kept digging them up and destroying them. They refused to pay and then they just gave up on making them pay for water cause they all banded together refusing to pay it.
same goes for demanding a higher min wage so that it becomes a livable one. If everyone who was making min wage walked off the job guess what would happen instantly..... We have more power than we know, but lack the balls to do anything.
The total inability to recognize the natural human preference for beauty over ugliness is astounding. Yes, many people prefer to role play as physically appealing fictional video game characters. If you have transcended these mortal flesh and blood desires, congratulations. But your failure to understand that you are an outlier is moronic. ff16 would have been a less enjoyable experience if Clive's character model were the elephant man. Him being cool and physically appealing absolutely contributed positively to the game. Japanese developers understand this. Western devs increasingly do not.
@JoltinJoe the elephant man serves here as the most extreme, objective example of ugliness possible to underscore the point described earlier in the comment. I find it difficult to believe you don't understand how examples work.
@@lichtsa It is in the eye of the beholder, of course. And if you're curious about the eyes of most beholders, check out the like/dislike ratio on that teaser trailer.
Let us take a look at it from that elitist mindset that people couldn't handle that "bold" direction of story telling. It comes down to what Colin mentioned about who or what a product is genuinely made for. ND in making that decision had to know what they were in for. Neil also has some very disliked view points. Ones I'm sure the audience that "couldn't handle" the decision to take its story in that direction. Probably are what people blamed for that sharp course change. I feel in TLOU2, ND wanted Ellie to come full circle as a person and she most definitely did. Becoming an adult, losing a somewhat parental figure, and how she was ultimately losing herself becoming a cold blooded killer in the name of revenge just like Abby. It's fine. It's angry, but not a bad story. The thing that I am pretty sure why people didn't like this game wasn't the direction of the game. I believe it was how it handled the "Boldness" of killing off one of its previous leads in Joel. Almost feeling more like a spit in the face more than anything else. You can argue that Joel was no hero. What he did at the end of part 1 alone was enough to condemn him. People don't like to think of things that way though. Maybe the full tone of the world was just missed by certain people? Maybe it wasn't fully conveyed. Story changes like that just wasn't something that would be well received by a good number of people. I know some people that refuse to go back and play after getting to that part. Never even finishing the game. Whether I think its a waste or not is irrelevant. It's their view and its not my job to defend Neil's harsh vision. They just took a gamble. A gamble that I will say had some strange out comes. At the same time the world that this game released in is also very much different than when the first released. A world where everyone is against each other for trivial means. Once a line is drawn each side will drag whatever in the argument to "validate their point". TLOU fan base just had people that agreed to it's new direction and others that didn't. It escalated and like children on the internet bad things were flung. Neil also went against one side. Upset that people didn't agree with his vision. Now. Neil has made his enemies and its not gonna stop.
Maybe I’m oversimplifying it but when you kill off a beloved character then you are forced to play as the killer as some way of preaching perspective and layer that with Abby being not as likable as Joel or Ellie and what we get a a “Last Jedi” level of subversion that blows up in everyone’s faces. Fans won’t forget that. And it will fail to meet sales expectations because these types of games are not compelling to casual gamers like COD and sports titles.
Theres also a lot of revisionist history on TLOUpt1. They either say Amy Hennig wrote it or Bruce Straley was influencing Neil so much that the first game basically had none of Neils Ideas they completely deny Neil any flowers whatsoever. Its absolute madness.
This has got to be one of the most disingenuous responses you guys have ever had. The paying customers and the general audience are tired of characters and games like this. To say that the online response has no bearing on sales is extremely ignorant. Think about all the “woke” games from 2023 and 2024 that have flopped that had similar unattractive characters and Studio leadership that replied negatively to fan criticism. Let’s’s not forget that naughty dog and Neil Druckmann straight up said they no longer want to make games with straight white character leads. Im not white, but I am a huge fan of Nathan Drake and because their idiotic rhetoric we may never get a sequel. Have you guys learned nothing from this most recent election? People are tired of this. Gamers, and the general audience, whether it comes to movies or games, are voting with their wallets now more than ever. Concorde, suicide squad, dust born. Should I go on? Can’t wait for the episode next year, when you guys discuss the poor sales of this game and the potential closing of naughty dog Studios and hear what BS excuse you give.
Unfortunately I think it's human nature, at least Colin's nature. When he was super political on twitter many years ago, he would completely ignore the best counters to his political views, only ever responding to the weakest responses.
All three of you guys for years have underplayed wokeness and culture war battles that go on with these new games. You guys have said this stuff doesn’t contribute to a games success or failure and you are totally wrong. It isn’t everything but it absolutely matters.
Such bad takes on the last of us part 2. Dustin goes to explain exactly why people are upset by using star wars as a comparison but fails to make the connection. People feel the exact same way about the writing in the last of us and what happens with Joel. It wasn’t believable for Joel get into that situation based on how we understood Joel from the first game. Also people are upset because a lot of people cherished the characters and story of the first game and then felt like they had characters assaulted in every way in the sequel.
I never understood why it was so unbelievable for Joel to be in that situation. He trusted Sam and Henry in the first game pretty quickly. How the hell would he know the girl who's life he randomly saved was there to kill him lol. He's not some trained CIA agent
Colin is frustrating to listen to about anything naughty dog. The first game is one of the greatest stories ever told in video game form, if not the greatest. It’s like the matrix part 1. Maybe we all had high expectations but part 2 is probably the most pretentious story every told and tries but fails to force you to like one of the the most unlikeable characters every thought up. High production value and Sony spamming cash to naughty dog cannot save the crapshoot that tlou2 was. To go from universal acclaim to this kinda divisive response and not take any responsibility is one way to react, but no longer are naughty dog games blind day 1 buys from me and many others. Good luck getting casual players to buy a 70 new ip, while ignoring the feedback from your most hardcore audience.
Oh word? Tell that to *all of the most popular games today* It’s cute that you slugs only ever bring up those three games, meanwhile the entire landscape of gaming has moved on past you weirdos. It’s never going back to what you want. Move on or fuck off.
I can tell by the title, you misunderstand the dislike for naughty dog and specifically Neil. It’s ok for people to 1. Be tired of the girl boss trope. I’m sure she’s a woke character and if not, then a Mary Sue. Who is just so good at everything, even better than men at all the physical stuff! You go girl!.. uh tired character type. 2. what’s wrong with females having strong female attributes. Is it only male physical attributes that matter? Women are in fact better with relationships/ royal court intrigue, being that X factor that shows up. Keeps the team from falling apart, negotiating complex personality types to work with one another, but I guess those female traits suck compared to male physical traits. So we have to give the women their girl boss physical powers as physically strong women... boring and overused character type again. (And talk to a girl did you know they actually like love stories, weird huh?) 3. Lastly Neil is preachy. So woke he talks about things and insert things into games that we as a society are still figuring out (like trans issues ridiculous, and trans kids is literally evil stuff the left support and so does naughty dog and Neil) he thinks he so enlightened to force to play as the villain, when in actuality he doesn’t respect the audience or the player or the hero’s journey that is the encouragement for all of us, modern day myths that help us aim high. So that is why it’s fine for people to pre-dislike this game and send a message: we want better.
I gotta say, it’s a bold strategy to essentially call half your audience “deranged” because we didn’t like the writing of TLOU 2 and the character design from Intergalactic. Big yikes… *Spoilers TLOU 2* Also, most people weren’t mad that Joel was killed… It was the manner in which he was killed. It was poor writing to have him killed off the way he did. He was killed because he revealed his name was Joel. Tommy and Joel survived for years because they didn’t give out detailed information to people they didn’t know. Suddenly, they go into a house of people they don’t know and start giving them all their information? Then in the end, Ellie kills off hundreds of people to reach Abby and then just lets her go? It’s just bad writing. Also, The actress who plays Jordan in Intergalactic just recently put out a post saying “You mad bro?” That featured fan art with the title “Fragile Masculini-tea”. Of course she deleted the post and you guys wonder why nobody cares to play this. People are tired of being preached at from celebs who don’t like you. Intergalactic deserves to fail.
Joel from the beginning of TLOU was not the same person he was at the end TLOU, and Joel at the end of TLOU wasn't the same person he was at the beginning of TLOU2. 4 Years had passed since, he is happily living in a functioning community, where one of his tasks was to help outsiders. Joel clearly have been softening in Jackson, the museum scene is the perfect example of that. When he and Tommy came across Abby, she was close to being killed, Joel helps her, and they fight together against infected. What reason Joel has to suspect Abby as a nefarious person? Also Abby's squad at first glance doesn't even look threatening. Group made of young people, with both genders, unlike hunters or even David's group from the first game.
@@obey400 that’s inaccurate. Their only job was to clear infected from around their camp. They weren’t obligated to help anybody. People change but survival instincts doesn’t. Also, the group they met were all armed, so they were still a threat. Joel would never go into the house where they shut the door behind them and let them get flanked. Him and Tommy certainly would never divulge information that would put their own camp at risk. Telling a group of random people whom are armed where your camp is, is a major risk.
@@TheOff1ceFan They clearly have increased the population in Jackson with outsiders, what are you talking about? Like Joel and Ellie themselves? Notes in the game show that outsiders have joined Jackson when doing the guarding tasks. And when it comes to Abby's squad, so what if they have weapons, it would be pretty stupid to move around in hostile grounds with no weapons? Abby's group also saved Joel and Tommy before they killed Joel. What reason they have to doubt these people? Explain? The only Reason Joel got killed was because they had reason to kill Joel. Basically very bad luck. Joel and Tommy also didn't have anywhere else to go. It was be or be killed.
@ you are doing mental gymnastics trying to justify Joel forgetting how to survive. Also, Jackson was massive at the end of the first Last of Us, so you can’t say one way or another that it has grown a bunch. You would not survive in a post apocalyptic world based on your outlook lmao
@@TheOff1ceFan You cannot counter my arguments, because you're overly emotional over entertainment product. I Gave you reasons why Tommy and Joel would act like they did. You gave me bunch of what ifs. group of 8 kids are not a threat to Jackson.
These guys dont interact with regular people much anymore. And its showing. Its not a bald woman that concerns gamers. But a future chic whos mad about trump winning, is concerning when people dont want political crap pushed in their leisure time. Its not coincidental the space chic is shaving her head in the open introduction to the character. Thats 100% intentional. And the creators of the game are absolutely on baord. You dont turn off your comments to your brand new title when your excited to show off your work. You invite feedback, unless your intentionally doing something nefarious.
Gotta learn the hard way I guess … do you want a forspoken or a ff6? The quality is not ff6 we are getting mid range stuff that’s why people are bashing naughty dog but ultimately it’s speculation we have to wait and see . People want everything from naughty dog but the truth is they are not that studio anymore. Forspoken has good gameplay but the story and dialogue is not the best and very uninteresting . What keeps me playing is the gameplay it feels a bit like infamous. FF6 starts and ends strong Kingdom hearts 1 story is what carry’s it the gameplay was very mid etc
I think lost legacy was the moment where a lot of fans started to turn on naughty dog. People called it feminist propaganda due to the focus on Female characters along with how it conveyed male characters (especially Sam) making them either evil or dopey. The ending probably didn’t help either where it had 3 females eating pizza while happily excluding the male. I always saw it as a throwback to feminist grindhouse 70s movies, but most of the internet seemed to compare it to Ghostbusters 2016 which admittedly is hard to disagree with since it followed a similar template with its statement.
I recently played through the PS5 versions of LL and 4, and it was evident that they dumbed Sam down to make Chloe and Nadine (even the little girl from the market) outshine him. In 4 he’s incredibly quick-witted, capable, and the group’s expert on pirates. Nate even acknowledges that. But in LL he’s just turned into the comedy relief character. He doesn’t have any moments to shine because the story about women doesn’t allow for that. This is the essence of the woke debate. Tearing down or diminishing male characters in favour of female ones in a male dominated space is going to have consequences. It doesn’t matter how anyone personally feels about that, it is fact.
@ when the game first released the woke stuff was completely foreign to me. But after seeing arguments about its supposed agenda it’s definitely hard to dispute it, especially looking back at that era where it seemed like a big trend in the entertainment world.
@@BooBanana exactly. And the fact that Neil Druckmann is known to have collaborated with Anita Sarkesian, a feminist grifter, informs people’s views of what his intentions are with regard to storytelling. I love TLoU 1 and 2. But I can see people’s criticisms for the story in 2 and appreciate them to an extent. Watching the making of documentary for 2 and seeing who the other writer was and how she speaks (told people criticising her writing to “suck a dick” in the video) gave me a lot of insight into why certain decisions were made.
Forgot to submit but I think but the 10% steak that Sony now has is them not pulling another bungie situation. I think this allows them to get into the company and see what’s really going on behind doors before they end up making the full purchase in the next year or so.
This podcast doesn't understand what "woke" is. They also counter with extreme strawman arguments. Yes she doesn't need hair but she also doesn't have to shave down to bald, why even wear certain clothing, why are many woman Niel puts in look like men and are abnormally/extremely strong and muscular? Why not just make the character male? Why not just put a feminine woman if you want to put a woman. The equivalent argument would be if most males Neil put in a game were hyper feminized, very skinny sensitive and weak with very little muscle...I'm sure these guys would get it then ..
why does the video game representation took less attractive then the actress who is playing her? thats they type of red flags that make people think woke over substance. now there are also instances where projects get stray fire just due to being a game in this era. well see how this plays out.
I like Colin, but listening to him trying to defend naughty dog is painful. This game looks concord bad, and you can’t blame people for being sick of radical feminist characters. I don’t really care because I just won’t buy it, but I understand people being disappointed.
We've seen ZERO actual gameplay but it looks concord levels of bad?? also the main character is a bald female that wants to do a bounty job but shes a radical feminist? how? I think yall just hate for actually no reason at all cuz otherwise id agree with you but I cant simply off a announcement trailer that barely gave us anything to go off except thats its a Sci-Fi game.
I don't even care about "woke" or "DEI" stuff, but I guess I just wish Western games could match the same magic from ~15 years ago. The Uncharted trilogy, Mass Effect trilogy, Halo trilogy, Gears of War triogy, God of War trilogy, Bethesda games from this time, early CoDs, Rockstar games from the 2000s, etc. Like... there's clearly something missing and it's just not as fun anymore. Nearly everything that people buy and really enjoy is coming out of East Asia.
The way Joel was killed off in TLOU2 was so braindead and sloppily done it was almost shocking it was from NAUGHTY DOG, that's not the only reason that game sucked the pacing was awful, unlikeable characters among many other things, it's sad to see how far they've fallen. Bruce and Amy were the masterminds of ND NOT NEIL CUCKMANN. PERIOD
I've NEVER had a problem playing as women/black/gay characters in games Horizon ZD back in 2017? 0 problem Finding out Ellie was gay? 0 problem etc. What I'm particularly annoyed with is forced and unnecessary inclusion in games. Best example l have right now is Uncharted Lost Legacy. Can you imagine how funny it would've been to play as Chloe with Sully? Saying innapropiate jokes from time to time and stuff... But no, Neil Druckmann had to bring the character with the least charisma and personality simply because of being a black woman. It just made NO SENSE. Even Elena could have had more sense
Ok, I’m gonna play devils advocate here, so please remember this is not how I personally feel, but what I think people are really mad about with Intergalactic. You frustratingly danced around that it’s not really just a ND thing, or a woman thing, but a wider trend in entertainment, starting with Disney. These guys don’t like the fact that all of their entertainment seems to be trending towards not only replacing men in lead roles, but replacing them with unattractive women with basically all of the characteristics of a man. Star Wars has gone out of their way to do this to such an extent, that the hate has spilled out into all artistic mediums. Star Wars and video games have all been traditionally nerdy and male, and these fans are tired of seeing every character turned into woke propaganda. Again I think it’s immature and stupid, but this is basically what Asmongold and his audience have stated. It’s a culture war, and they see anything other than a traditionally attractive woman, or man as an attack and take over of the things they love.
I grew up playing uncharted 1-3. I love naughty dog games. 4 is my favorite game ever. I loved the last of us 1 and 2. I love lost legacy. I even liked the vita game. But I don’t like the trailer for intergalactic. People need to stop acting like character design isn’t important. If that was the case then why do people buy skins in games? Why do we have transmog in rpgs? Why do we have character creators? And why are there so many people who do cosplay as their favorite characters at conventions? There is an art to character design. And this Jordan character in intergalactic just doesn’t seem appealing visually at all. The vibe of the trailer is very intriguing, the music is sick, the colors are vibrant, and I like the new sci fi direction, but if I have to play as that character for 20-50 hours it’s going to be a slog,
If they wanted to make a cool character based off Akira or Cowboy Bebop they should have looked at the females from those animes. Look at Faye Valentine or Caneda’s girl from Akira. Or even another great anime in Ghost in the shell. Motoko Kusanagi is one of the most iconic looking female characters ever made. Instead they created a character that somehow makes a very pretty black woman in real life, look ugly and bald and unappealing. Wow.
The questions Colin cherry picked about Intergalactic only fits his argument that people just hate ND and female characters. Not true and is showing Colin is becoming out of touch with the culture. If you want to see a Co that gets scrutinized by YTbers on a daily basis, it's Ubisoft. The new AC game doesn't even look as bad as videos make it out to be. It only gets criticized for their casting of Yasuke who was placed in the game to virtue signal. That's my issue really with LOU2. Forget about the developers, I'm just judging by the game. If the game wasn't downvoted to hell, there would be no controversy. If it was just Uncharted in Space, I bet it would have gotten the opposite reaction. I will argue we didn't see enough to make a judgement, but that lead character didn't have a positive effect. The important thing, I think that is being ignored for political reasons is you have to have a character that is marketable. If ND really wanted to be accurate about a woman going bald and not wearing makeup in space, why do we have 17 year old teenagers beating the shit out of grown men in LOU2. I personally don't care about that as it's fiction, but just pointing that out that Colin is giving them way too much credit. At least they were aware of the optics by making Abby built like Rambo. I'm not invested in the LOU like some fans. I think the game is technically impressive with great animations. My only issue is that its Juno in the apocalypse. If shit hit the fan, people would not be so combative with the social issues we debate now. It would just be how can I survive another day like the Road or Terminator Future War. I'm pretty sure in that future, people don't care if you think you are a man in a woman's body. Can you pick up a gun and turn those machines into junk.
different times. Product placement hits differently in 2024, and media doesn’t exist in a vacuum, it exists in a time and place. I guarantee you if Blade Runner were made today people would look askance at the Coke ad in it; that says very little about the movie, but it says a ton about the times we live in now.
Regarding not that many shooters as of late. I am once again humbly requesting Colin play Atomic Heart. I really think he'd like it, and the trophies are fixed afaik.
Atomic Heart is one of the best games I’ve played in recent memory. Played it on GP when it came out but have been meaning to pick it up on PS5 for the platinum.
nice try Chris I actually listen to your other podcasts and heard your problems with removing the dislike button and its even more important now since AI science channels are popping up with disinformation. This is the first SS episode I've heard such dishonesty from the whole table and I'm a female supporter but my god was this episode just skipping over ppls legitimate criticisms of ND.
Wow, good job on being a "female supporter". You deserve a round of applause. lol, who the hell talks like that?
Are you telling me that Chris changed his stance to fit a narrative?! Shocking
“Vote with your wallet… unless it’s my friend and our own normie ideology” - LSM
Colin, can you help me understand when one should value games journalists' opinions? In your words it seems like they should be ignored most of the time, unless they happen to praise TLOU Part 2.
Also when they say good things about intergalactic especially when they will start saying “this has never been done before” even though we have seen this before a million times
He's not telling you to value the opinion of the game journalist. He likes the last of us part 2 not because game journalist like it but because he likes it. Collins opinion has always been form your own opinion divorced from critics and the gaming community mob.
I find the entire conversation about Intergalactic a waste of everybody's time. Pretends the game is happening in a vacuum and can't understand why the 100th game in the last 12 months, with THE MESSAGE on the forefront, is getting a pushback or selling poorly. "Oh being geh is woke now hAhAHhAH". We can have 10 games like Concord, which was the pure juice of propaganda, failing miserably and the issue will be gameplay, it's a new IP, it wasn't F2P, the genre is played out, the characters are boring or absolutely ANYTHING but, the point of these conversations.
Why did Dragon Quest do somersaults around body type A/B when they address boys/girls armor in game? Why did Ragnarok race swap a character from Nordic mythology? Why did Veilguard use 2024 slangs in an medieval/fantasy setting? Why do we always NEED to bring all the luggage from the past decade to make a point when we are already over the "it's not happening, it's just your imagination" phase? The only comment that added anything meaningful to the conversation was this, 2:46:49. It was honest, it was the truth and probably what is really happening inside these studios.
I find some Neil Druckmann memes funny but, they're not trying to be funny, they're just trying to be mean for the sake of it. He wanted to be the face of the studio and his work should be criticized but, the personal comments are not my thing.
So I’m curious.. what’s “THE MESSAGE”?
There no way sci-fi is played out lol your telling me you’ve played a bunch of games that look like this? Stop please.
Remember when journalist said "everything is political" to defend when people got mad at certain games. Well it seems the horseshoe has wrapped around so much that now gamers have the same opinion, instead to justify the opposite.
It sounds like it is a you problem. This game looks like Dark souls. And yes I am tired of games like that too but I will probably be ready for this game in a few years.
@@itzMarcMan”the message” is pushing unconventional forms of lifestyle on the broader public. Simplest way to explain it.
Colin operates in similar ways to the legacy media he so vehemently criticizes whenever it comes to Naughty Dog and his secret lover, Neil.
Yeah man, couldn’t possibly be that he agrees with the millions and millions of other TLOU fans.
You “people” are useless.
This must be the most "gamer" comment I have ever read. It gave me a laugh. If you do think like this, and are older than 12, you should really go out and talk to some real people or maybe read some fiction over watching the 14th Gamers are mad because a game has a female lead in it youtube video
Colin is incapable of just being normal when it comes to Naughty Dog.
It always has to be "this is the greatest thing ever, youre just missing it because blah blah blah"
Impossible to accept that some people just might not be into the writing or character design.
He literally does accept it though.
If he thinks its one of the greatest games ever then why wouldn't he voice it on the gaming podcast he hosts and owns? If you disagree with his opinion then don't listen, he is putting out his opinion honestly, would you prefer he just lie?
@@jacobself1920
You couldn't have misunderstood this comment more. I have no issue with him thinking it's one of the greatest games, it's how he reacts to people who don't agree
@@DD-fs9xt It's art. I think Outer Wilds is the greatst game of all time, if a bunch of people disagreed I would also make it clear I thought they were wrong and try to elucidate why I think they are. When Colin talks about those who don't see what he see's in TLOU2 it bears no connection to them as people or anything, he just disagress with their opinion on a piece of art, and disagrees strongly. Isn't that what any meaningful and honest discussion around games necessitates?
@@jacobself1920
So you have the same problem then. Why not just accept that some people don't agree with you and enjoy the game.
You can think that's the greatest game of all time, just don't lecture others who don't and make weird generalizations about them like Colin does
Naughty Dog defense force activated
Haha exactly. The game will flop. They’re crazy if they think people won’t boycott… people are over politics and dei in entertainment. They’re smoking way too much hopium.
It's pathetic they've completely lost me . They can't see how woke libtards inside all these companies not caring about there audience and making weirdo lefty characters is destroying these studios.
Lol 😂
The argument that ____ dying in TLOU2 is the reason people dislike that game....in 2024. Absurd.
It's the truth but you have to understand the layers as to why that manifested so negatively for audiences. But that IS the truth
Most people is about that or political reasons, not the game.
@@Msalcido555 no it isn't
@@christianescobar3209 so the game has no issues whatsoever?
@@christianescobar3209 So the story/writing isn't a key part of the game? Do you hear yourself?
2:39:33 Lol at Chris saying that adding the TH-cam dislike button back is “terminally online” as if that wasn’t a feature for 15 years before TH-cam removed it
I think you are missing the point of what he was saying. To care enough about it to go back and add it in is another level of TH-camness that the majority of TH-cam viewers simply don’t have in them.
@@MitchellMiller1 I would agree if TH-cam never had a dislike button for most of its life and then adding one now would be weird, but adding back a popular feature isn’t that crazy imo. Plus, I think its usually a good tool to see the general consensus on things good or bad
@@MitchellMiller1 I think the fact that people defend that it was removed says more then anything wanting it back would say. The reality is: It's not toxic gamers that is killing devs like Naughty Dog, it's the toxic positivity in those dev studios. They have a culture where every action and choice they make must be viewed as correct and anyone that dislikes their actions is a hater and some form of an -ist so they just push forward regardless of what the customers are saying.
@@BrandonHeat243 Can you give me a SINGLE EXAMPLE of a studio as prolific as Naughty Dog that was "killed" by toxic positivity? Not even Naughty Dog is dying, so I don't even know what you are talking about. And so help me if you try to use Bungie as your example. XD
@@MitchellMiller1 I was thinking specifically of Ubisoft with my comment. And it's undeniable. Look at the AC Shadows stuff. Making the MC of AC Japan a brother was an objectively bad decision. It has zero precedent in the series and was clearly just a political stunt. And how has Ubisoft reacted? They doubled down and called everyone that didn't like that clearly awful decision an -ist. And Naughty Dog isn't dying yet because they haven't released a new game in 4 years. Can't fail if you don't have any products out that can fail.
You guys actually pulled the twitter move of " they dont like something with females so they must be incel losers" response.
Except in this case it’s a rational well thought out point unlike on Twitter.
yeh surprised the podcast is going this route, was a listener for a while and to see the tide turning online but for them to go there is odd lol
Incels in this community realizing colin hates them is always funny
Well it's true in this case. Oh, and I'll give you a tip. Generally women don't like to be referred to as 'females'. Give it a try next time you leave your basement.
@@JAY11793 OK, incel
Excluding all of the bad faith arguments, last of us 2 and joker 2 are divisive for their content intentionally by the creators who even admit it. So saying that everyone who doesn’t like a story for how the story plays out is either wrong or just too dumb to comprehend is pretentious. Collin has always been respected for his honest views and advocating to vote with your wallet, but on one of the last episodes he flips by telling us to ignore bad advertising or how a game looks and to step out of our comfort zone and buy the game or we can’t have an opinion on it.
Why do cars have to look cool? Why do clothes have to be fashionable? Why do houses have to look neat? Why does food have to look appetizing? Why is this a F N mystery when it comes to fictional characters to look pleasing?
Bad analogy. Food doesn't have to look appetising to be enjoyable, clothes don't have to look fashionable to be functional. And a character doesn't need to be attractive to fulfil their purpose in a narrative.
People trying to say it's all about men wanting to sexualize women are just ignoring every other case where aesthetics matter
@@madsines5301And yet everything you listed would be products that wouldn’t sell to most customers. Basically you described the possessions of some fictional refugee. Most people don’t want shit that’s unappealing to the eye it’s not difficult.
@@madsines5301 Narrative is a concept people that watch a 1 minute trailer and immediately focus on the characters looks probably have difficulty grasping.
To you*
You guys must-at some level-understand people's preference for aesthetics. It is not a coincidence that the majority of Hollywood actors are beautiful. It is not a coincidence that male and female leads are generally good-looking and gender-confirming. To think it wouldn't apply to games is naive.
There are many legitimate critiques of Naughty Dog regarding its story, characters, pacing, etc. Just as there are many issues you (Colin) have with The Last Jedi that are not unfounded, similar issues can exist on games you love.
Also, I implore you to stop looking or acknowledging the most bad faith takes out there. These takes typically lack nuance and represent a more collective frustration than an actual coherent point. Grumzz is a symptom, not a cure. He is echoing what some people are feeling and badly articulating these points for clout.
One final note- please don't police arguments unless it's explicitly offensive. Part of the fun of game discussions is heated back and forth. It's disappointing if a monoculture of "best friends" (who coincidentally all repeat the same points) arose.
So you actually follow Grumzz which is cringe in itself and all you care about is that you can't jerk off to the lady in Intergalectic.
Very well said. At least Dustin tried to be a devil's advocate instead of Chris who just blindly agrees with Colin 90% of the time lol
The funny thing about The Last Jedi (in how Dustin brought it up as an example of bad writing for Luke) is that he is doing precisely what he is accusing others of doing with TLOU pt. 2. Dustin couldn't handle Rian Johnson's "bold" decisions. Luke is a stubborn and whiney kid for most of the OG trilogy, watch it again if you think otherwise. His character in TLJ is totally in line with his actions in the previous trilogy, but I totally get why some fanboys didn't like it.
Not being able to see that irony is a big part of the "problem" here.
@Epiousios18 "His character in TLJ is totally in line with the previous trilogy"
Wow. Hard disagree on this one. Even Mark Hamil himself said Luke's motivations in TLJ made no sense.
I have literally not heard of one legit criticism of tlou2 that isn't extremely loaded or reduced to "too woke." There are also actors all the time who aren't traditionally attractive like Steve Buscemi, Anthony Hopkins, Meryl Streep, Melissa McCarthy who are amazing at what they do and people like watching them. So to say that games NEEDS anime-esque big titty waifu characters is a terrible argument and laughable. Imagine getting mad at a game because you can't get a boner from watching the female lead. How about you just don't play it? But people take it a step further and spend all their time actively hating the game with deranged comments.
Sacred Symbols is slowly becoming ''Colin defend his friends podcast''
I dont blame him…Kinda funny not defending him really hit hard.
Slowly becoming? It always has been. Sony in general.
@@billclay2701let's be real, Colin & co. are blacklisted by Sony. That's why Neil Druckmann will never be on the show. However Colin claims to be friends with him, so he is clearly bias in some way.
It's not that bad compared with like Kinda Funny. won't even touch political topics or leaks etc. because they are friends with the industry. Getting a lot of early previews, free stuff and getting paid to do promotions.
Yeah, the Naughty Dog shilling on LSM cuts deep. A big part of what makes or breaks a game for many is art style, world building, and character design. People watching a trailer where enough of a display of these items is available and deciding they're not interested is totally valid.
You dope are looking for somebody, anybody to confirm that your deranged obsession with this man and studio is normal.
We'll see how well Intergalactic sells. Something tells me the numbers aren't going to be so hot.
I haven't seen a great reception to it either from the playstation audience, nor the wider gaming audience
I'm hoping Santa Monica's game will be more exciting and with a better direction, I have faith in them to deliver
It’ll be so funny to see how wrong you’re going to be.
It'll be game of the year and sell a ton. But you loud vocal minority live in an echo chamber so you wouldn't know anyway lmao
Get your grummz horseshit out of here
Based on what? There’s no gameplay
If you don't care about Playstation Studios games only having female protagonists and are confused that others aren't into it, that's fine but you should accept their preference. Heck, the number one argument I see for the inclusion of more female protagonists in games is that it makes women feel more welcome, because they don't relate to the standard herotype. Well, obviously the inverse is also going to be true, dudes aren't aren't going to be drawn to playing as women who are LGBT (Aloy & Ellie) - and that's probably why they assumed the Intergalatic protag will also be, it's basic pattern recognition.
'diversity fatigue' is a valid criticism IMO, because like Dustin said, "geez, another character like this?" is a common sentiment, and statistics show men are still the primary consumers of these types of games, they're the core audience. The reactionary pendulum has swung way too far one way, where the traditional male protagonist is now uncommon in AAA. I'd say it's the main audience that listens to this very podcast, and if THAT's who you were referring to when you said you want to 'clean up this community' then you're going to face some backlash.
Nailed it.
Thank you
Lmao you are such a baby
Brother we are HUMAN, the word diversity around this context shouldn't even be a thing but over thousands & thousands of years, we have somehow separated ourselves from others because of gender or colors. Why can't we just relate to someone because theyre human, why do they have to look a certain way.
@@JordySnytbh the only baby I see here is you with your immature comment
You guys are arguing in such bad faith when talking about naughty dog criticism
You painted everyone with the incel brush and how we're all just malicious haters and "oh they couldn't handle the bold choices in tlou2 because they're babies" like.. what?
The strawman they role out every time it comes to defending TLoU2 is genuinely painful to listen to. God forbid they actually talk with someone who thought the game was bad.
Any creative product is fair play for judgement it’s just unfortunate that a large majority of the ND criticism is presented in such poor manner and bad faith. It drowns out legitimate criticism and conversation.
@@robf The only people who believe this are defenders of the game, I'm sorry to say.
Doesn't the insane reaction to the Entergalactic teaser kind of prove their point? I mean we have seen no gameplay and people are already losing their shit.
Same thing happened when TLOU2 got spoiled before release. We never got to talk about serious criticism because most people only did it after whining about a story beat that they disliked and all kinds of culture war bullshit. After that a lot people dont care about valid criticism you may have.
@@PunishedlLongshanks Whats bad about the game? care to explain?
I'm not someone that thinks female character automatically equals woke/bad. That being said, just look at the look on this character's face. Is that someone you want to spend 10 to 15 hours with?
What's wrong with her face? That's one of the prettiest actresses on the planet.
Too bad the average "gamer" like yourself expects all female game characters to be Tifa or Stellar Blade lead, whatever her name is smh
@@hotcoldman77 I see reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. There's nothing wrong with her face. There is something very off putting about the look on her face and her smug demeanor. Her facial expressions are the problem. Not her face itself.
@hotcoldman77 Learn how to read properly.
@hotcoldman77 Reading comprehension... reading comprehension.
Do you play the game with the character's face towards the camera for 10-15 hours? If so, that's so unique I might play it just for that reason alone!
What is this? You talk as if there is no legitimate criticism of Naughty Dog, TLoU 2, or Druckmann. There are countless videos, articles, and podcasts with considered critiques, yet you disregard all of that as baseless or "deranged". Echo chamber.
Every time Colin says he "doesn't understand" why people dislike TLoU2, I die a little bit inside. It's fine if he likes it, but maybe listen to someone with a different opinion and then you'd understand!
Echo chamber is right. They act as if the opposition to the Last of Us 2 and now Intergalactic is just dumb and without substance. Couldn't possibly be that people have worthwhile criticism.
Opposition to intergalactic is baseless
@@Atare617 What if people aren't interested in playing as a butch, androgynous, 'badass' fem protag? What if they have reservations about the writing/story after the catastrophe of TLoU2?
@@lastoftheb00mers When you look at the criticism (legit) about the game it basically boils down to the fact that trailer shows little about the game. That in itself is completely fair and not uncommon in the industry. Should that be enough to warrant hundreds of articles and youtube videos about the game. Not a chance. Look at the trailer itself, TECHNICALLY, it looks fantastic. People's mileage will vary with the content but it looks visually slick and we know that ND are at the top of the mountain when it comes to mocap.
So yea, criticism is cool but the fact that most content isn't even about what the game is going to be about kinda reveals everything about the source of the hate
So all citicism of the game, except for that "Character dying", is ignored.
Just all a bunch of woke-hating whiners, huh?!
Wow, the cope is strong this episode, that was really embarassing to watch,
the only thing that could have made this worse if Neil Druckmann, had walked in,
asking if somebody needed something to drink, whilst simping for Naughty Dog.
You missed the entire point of the conversation.
@@sunsetsoda5418 he did not listen at all
Did you even watch the video. Dustin en Chris have a lot criticism of TLOU2. But we hardly ever get to have that conversation, because people build their criticism of the game around a story beat they did not like.
Dude just go back to watch Asmongold.
@@SHaze187 wow you're triggered
Colin is reputable & trustworthy on these topics until it involves someone he knows personally like Neil Druckmann... at that point, throw Colin's opinion out of the window lol smh. The funny thing is, if Colin had been defending liberal ideologues & towing the line this hard a few years back, he'd still be friends with Greg Miller & he'd still have a job at Kinda Funny or IGN lol smh.
y'all sound like the people who say you're a bigot if you like the original Star Wars trilogy but don't like Star Wars Acolyte. liberals calling everyone bigots who don't agree with their opinions, while actively NOT addressing the points they bring up, is the classic liberal straw-man & its why Trump won the election.
obviously, we know Colin is a conservative, but him hanging around far left liberals like David Jaffe, Chris & Dustin so much is starting to rot Colin's brain a little bit. Colin's wife is a black woman, so she's most likely a liberal too & its likely having an influence on Colin.
I love how the first chat on every episode is about Chris’ sleep/energy lol
I would be upset if I didn't hear about it at this point.
His sleep and energy is just so hard to manage he’s a really busy guy.
Its the new "just for full disclosure, I own microsoft stock"
It’s tiring.
It's an excuse to be lame
Those conversations about and surrounding Intergalactic was so disingenuous and reductive that I'm completely disappointed by the sacred crew. How unfortunate.
Glad we had another hour+ of Colin defending The Last of Us again. It would be alright if he actually discussed the issues people have with recent ND titles, however he just builds a stupid straw man and attacks that instead.
Because a lot, not all, of the people who hate on the game aren't very bright.
I mean it's his favorite lesbian game
@@dtanobo yea but why focus on those people? Wouldnt it make for good content to discuss actual valid criticisms instead of the nonsense? Very frustrating to listen to.
We need to convince Colin intergalactic is gonna be "the dark souls of story games" so he can do an immediate 180 and hate it without playing it
@@305antivenom Like Dustin and even more so Chris are those people since especially Chris didn't like the game. He did a whole spoilercast with Micah who didn't like the game. It's just that the people who are the loudest, unfortunately poison the well of discourse and not only that, the normal people who didn't like the game, didn't make talking about it a nightmare for years
TLOU2 is absolutely the The Last Jedi of video games right down the the bad writing and character assassinations that are indeed Dustin subverting the audiences expectations for the sake of “muh themes” and not making sense narratively
Maybe I missed it, but does Colin ever acknowledge his extreme bias because he's personal friends with Neil Druckmann?
Tbf, he does own up to that. I think he also just has a blind-spot with TLoU 2.
Many times
Literally in the segment when they discuss it.
Maybe he just legit loves the game like thousands of people do like myself. The fact that the only reason he could like tlou2 is because he's friends with Neil is a pathetic and cringy argument.
@@Unit17 I think the OP's point was that Colin seemingly will not entertain any substantial criticism of TLoU 2. I agree, though, that that's because he just likes the game a lot.
yeah sacred symbols becoming more skippable each week now
Colin is the first thing I think of when I hear Naughty Dog Derangement Syndrome.
Daaaaaaammmmm..... .!
So has Colin got a mario/zelda derangement syndrome ? Not even Mario Odyssey was a good platformer according to him.
And before someone goes: well maybe he just doesnt like those games made recently... yeah and maybe we arnt exactly "amazed" by the last of us two AND naughty dogs just releasing remasters for the last of us games.
Mario Odyssey is one of the weaker 3D Mario, it barely qualifies as a platformer. It‘s an unfocused exploration game with collectibles bloat.
@@quezcatol Then why are you always talking about it? I never hear Colin talk about his dislike for those games.
@@SwordANDbored84confusing comment.
@@hass556 Well even if you feel that way, look at the competition: mario 64, sunshine and galaxy- these are some of the best platformers of all time.
Neil Druckman is not woke? I don't know him. I do know he had Anita Sarkeesian as a consultant some years back. I do know he certainly makes woke games, where pregnant doctors are cleared for combat runs in a post apocalyptic survivors group because girl bosses be girl bossing. I don't know that, but I suspect ND cannot see how unsympathetic their new characters are because disliking somebody with that many DEI-checkmarks is illegal in their mind.
I hope Intergalactic is good. But their main character had a not the best or most endearing introduction. Did I immediately wanna go on an adventure with Nathan Drake? Hell yeah! With Joel? You bet. With Chloe? Sure! With Nadine? No. With Ellie? Still yes, bit it turned out f*ed. With Jordan? No. There is much marketing to come, but as of now, no.
The ignorance is palpable. It seems that Colin's love for TLOU II has prevented him from listening to any criticism of it. Most people assumed that what happened to that character was going to happen somehow. It's the way it was executed that people don't like. Yes, what happened does make sense, but it's the writing and the timing that pissed people off. It's also how the character was treated and they didn't act how they should. There's been plenty of criticism of the game. From the writing, to the pacing, to the gameplay, to the characters. There a ton of it that you seem to have ignored completely.
There's multiple reasons that people don't like Neil Druckmann. One is obviously TLOU II. Another is how Naughty Dog false copyright striked TH-camrs and Neil was talking about how he wanted that and was okay with it. Even pointing out certain videos. There's also that speech he gave about how much he liked Anita Sarkeesian and how women being portrayed as sexy is misogynistic. He also said that originally the infected were all going to be women, but he thought that was misogynistic, so they changed it. Even though it could be an interesting concept if done right. It does seem he's woke contrary to Colin's opinion.
I think that it is nice of him to be this accepting of a game no one knows anything about. Do you know? Sometimes it is better to chill out because you know that you will not change the game in any way. So if you don't like what you see that is always ok. I hate sports games so I don't play them. And I would never comment on a video of any of these shit games ever.😅
@@Alienshade Uncharted is my favorite video game franchise. I also liked the first Last of Us. I would love to buy another Naughty Dog game, but I don't like the direction Neil Druckmann has taken them in since TLOU II. I'm not saying I'll never get this. If I hear good things from people I trust and it seems like a game I'd like, then I will. I think a lot of people upset about it are in a similar boat. I bet there is some people who would never be interested in playing that type of game regardless of quality that are complaining, but I think there's so much backlash, because most are fans of old Naughty Dog and they don't like the direction they're going in.
Also, I think it's good to criticize something if you have problems with it. Maybe it won't change anything with that game, but those criticisms may be considered next time. I don't think you should necessarily just accept what they put in front of you. Even though there's not much we know about the game. We can still analyze and criticize what we do know and with it being this early, maybe there will be change if people criticize it. I wouldn't hold my breath though lol.
Colin is making a habit of completely misrepresenting people's genuine criticisms when it comes to character designs or modern politics interjected into games. He's slowly turning into Chris. He was the only voice we had in the games media that would represent our views in a genuine way, but now he's acting like the rest of them. Really disappointing,
Yep Last Stand may be falling apart now
If Chris, Dustin and Colin can’t understand the Intergalactic hate, they won’t understand the NaughtyDog/Neil Druckman hate. By Colin calling it “derangement”.. he’s already biased and calling the dislike unwarranted. and no.. it’s not just about Joel dying, that has a role to play in it.
The “undeniable quality of their games” was revelant in 2016 with Uncharted 4, and even that was met with a background of deep development issues with them pushing out Amy Hennig and Neil rising to a more prodominent role in the studio. One thing that was noted with Uncharted 4 was Nadine. She was the “strong, black woman” in the game that was undeniably put there in response to Neil’s CLEAR feministic views about women characters in video games and how they are portrayed in games, including Anita Sarkasian working on projects and Neil working on projects with her.
Uncharted Lost Legacy wasn’t a bad game, although it did have 2 female leads.. I don’t think people really cared or noticed. They were already established characters and they played well off of eachother. Nothing seems “in your face” politically.
The rollout leading up to TLOU2 was great. The teaser trailers/gameplay trailers/tv spots were all great, the interviews about it were great. Neil saying, “We’ll do right by you” set well with the community. The last trailer with Joel appearing at the end put to bed that everyone’s fear that Joel was just dead throughout the game. It meant Joel would have a more active role in the story.
Fast forward and the leaks come out the came how Joel dies 2-3 hours into the beginning of the game (telling us that trailer was false advertisement). . Not to mention all the diffrent reviews not including the second half of the game with Abby. and Sony striking channels who talked about the spoilers. We have a character who looks trans (we know she is a woman).. but she resembles Neil’s idea of what strong women look like. There are many story and writing elements (not just Joel’s death).. that are poorly handled, and we have the ending of the game.. which makes very little sense.
Afterwards we have voice actors like Troy and developers like Druckman coming out calling people who dislike the game bigots, racists and transphobes, essentially dismissing all criticism that wasn’t just about Abby looking like a trans character.
All while this is happening, Disney is making decisions in movies and tv shows to push more left leaning content. Fast foward to 2022-2024. We have female lead games with bad writing, woke”/DEI agendas. Dustin is right to a degree that part of the issue is the traditional male protagonist archetype is being burnt to the ground. We see saw this with Suidicde Squad KTJL.. We have terrible dialogue ridden Forespoken.. we have Sweet Baby Inc causing issue with game companies. We have ND cancelling Factions 2, and putting out what seems like 5 different remakes/remasters of the same game. Intergalatic The Hereitic Prophet comes out with this asian bald woman with a shit eating grin personality while sucking on a straw with another female character who sounds like she smokes with an eyepatch and fans are just tired of it. Neil has turned into someone who i think would rather make movies and he thinks he’s a better writer than what he actually is.
Have you always hated false advertisement in trailers?
@@Bungycb Sure, especially if it goes to to the level of making you believe a character would be alive, and an active part of the story when in actually he wasn’t. they literally swapped the Joel character for Jesse in the scene. It was close to release too. .so it wasn’t just an old trailer.... the story was already finished at that point in development. The misleading element was intentional to get people to buy the game.
@ fair enough
As expected, Colin and Co. Are completely out of touch on Intergalactic. I am not Anti-Woke but nobody likes being gaslit. People haven't forgotten Pt2's marketing that suggested that Joel would be in the game more than he was. Pt1 also didn't have the Fireflies as altruistic heroes, they stole Joel's guns when they were the reward for returning Ellie. I doubt in-game Joel would know, but you can't make a vaccine for a fungal virus. Their doctor going, immediately to "Hey, let's kill Ellie" instead of examining her, and running tests just shows how incompetent the Fireflies are.
There was no moral Grey decision at the end of Pt1, Joel did what he had to. My only issue with Pt1's ending was not showing Joel taking as many guns with him as he could once the building was cleared. Pt2 is just Gaslight, the video game. Joel bad, the cycle of violence bad, the Fireflies good actually! Look at Bear the dog! Don't you want to pet Bear before Ellie kills him and calls him a fucker?! Isn't Abby awesome?! Ellie bad!!
If Neil wasn't Colin's personal friend I think this game would be rightly hated the same way Star Wars: The Last Jedi is. Being subversive doesn't make you a brilliant writer; it means you have to bring your A-game to make it work, and it just didn't for a large amount of people. If you want to see Pt2's themes done better in every way possible outside of graphics, play Yakuza 0.
I will never take away from Naughty Dog's technical ability to develop, to make things look gorgeous, or their efforts to normalize gay folks like Ellie. That being said, I just don't trust Neil as a writer. Without Bruce or Amy, Pt2 was bloated, sloppy, and the lore of Pt1 was bent and broken to fulfill his vision. Like Colin rants about books being taken out of the canon, what is the point in caring about Joel, Ellie, and the universe built in Pt1 if they are going to toss it all away for cheap shock slop? I'm sure you'll give it a 12/10 anyway Colin, then make 4 spoiler casts defending your friend just to counter the vitriol towards the game and Neil himself.
Pt2 was just a mediocre title and Naughty Dog has to earn their right to be considered a premier PlayStation studio again with Intergalactic. The trailer was just bad; it doesn't tell you anything about the world, the name sucks, and to glean any information, you HAVE to read Neil's write-up. There are bad signs and red flags all over the place; the Gooners are less than 5% of this conversation, even if they are the loudest. Get off Twitter and talk with good-faith actors who didn't like the trailer, and they'll tell you the same I have.
Well said.
Colin better run here and delete this comment. Doesn't bode well for his narratives.
why woudnt you be anti woke? Go woke go broke. the evidence is there with every single woke game and movie that fails.
I don't get it... haven't trailers been misleading us for DECADES..... Why is Pt2 any different?
Very well put!
That one publishing guy from Larian Studios said it best - you can't just dismiss the culture stuff prevalent in today's world that affects games and devs have to learn to navigate it, at least on this triple-A level of operating. Considering the resources, time, and technical capability of studio like Naughty Dog, I think they must consider their mass appeal without compromising on their vision significantly, and with Niel at the wheel its probably not likely going forward.
Why do you care about mass appeal? What difference does it make that a game sells well to you? This criticism is ridiculous because it is so obvious that you are working backwards. You decide you don't like a direction a game/studio is going and you try and find a "legitimate" reason. Please just be honest with your criticism.
I personally care coz simultaneously am a fan and respect Naughty Dog and their output through the generations, and want them to do commercially as well as they do critically, because there are only a few that could rival their lod's and technical mastery, and don't wanna see them go on a downward spiral in likeness to Bioware, Bethesda, etc... that's why sales are THE factor like it or not, especially on this triple A elite level, when they are tasked to make a game that would fire on every cylinder imaginable, innovation, relevancy, critical and mass appeal, sales.
I haven't decided anything yet but I'm most likely gonna buy it on day 1 coz of all the mentioned above, I'm just arguing in the name of those who hold anti-ND sentiment... I'm not the one who needs extra convincing but many potential players do.
This is the most honest I can be, having a nuanced perspective while still hoping ND succeeds but noticing a concerning trend.
@@conor8223 This new trend of people caring so deeply about sales is so bizarre. Who gives a fuck if a game sells 5 copies or 5 million as long as it's a good game? Intergalactic could be the biggest gaming flop of all time and there's still zero chance Naughty Dog gets shut down.
Just further proves to me that these people don't even like gaming, they like arguing on social media to score points.
I love you guys but I really can't listen to 'Colin defends TLOU2' again. Yes ND hate is extreme, totally agree, but the defensiveness surrounding all criticism is just annoying at this point.
I think it's the exact opposite. Naughty Dog Derangement Syndrome absolutely exists. It's the derangement of their sycophant fans that will defend anything they do and not accept ANY criticism. They're amongst the most insane groups of people I've encountered on the internet. And that's saying something.
Naughty Dog used to be my favourite developer, but I won't accept and blindly defend when they release a bad product. This trailer was terrible and easily the worst part of the show, but hopefully the game will turn out to be good. They need a win after the The Last of Us 2 debacle and their online Last of Us not even being good enough to get released.
Agreed. The guys, especially Colin, talk as if there is basically no legitimate criticism of ND, TLoU2, or Druckmann. Not only that, but because they haven't considered these alternative perspectives, they consistently misrepresent them. Very annoying.
Genuine question - Why do you think the trailer was terrible? I don't think it was a HUGE standout compared to some others I'm more excited for, but I wouldn't say it was bad at all. My thoughts: The game looks graphically gorgeous, showed off some cool art direction, teased the cast, had some awesome music by Trent & Atticus, and ended with a very cool title drop and gameplay tease. My main critique is that it was a bit too long. But the mystery of who the developer was kept me engaged for the reveal, even if I did have a feeling that it was ND.
@@TheLunarVaux I liked the last bit of the trailer and might've been more positive if we got more of that. I generally don't like purely cinematic trailers, unless it's for a sequel, where one has more of an idea what the gameplay etc might look like. I also couldn't stand the voice acting of the character on the screen. I thought the dialogue came across as trying too hard to fall under a 2020s 'quirky' writing style. I thought the character designs were unpleasant and that the lead character was a really poor representation of her actress. Being forced to see Kumail Nanjiani is an immediate massive negative. At least it's not Seth Rogen, I suppose. The trailer had terrible placement, as a final reveal of the entire show carries a lot of weight and requires something more substantial, such as gameplay, or at least more information. And lastly, I felt like it was completely tone-deaf to release a reveal trailer with that tone, look and that setting, only months after Concord released.
We need to stop pretending like criticism of TLOU2 is anything other than 90% mob anti-woke backlash. There is legitimate criticism but it is guaranteed not going to be found in the comments section.
@@LastMinuteGuess There are literally dozens of videos breaking down precisely what's wrong with the TLoU 2, but sure, keep pretending it's just the "anti-woke mob".
You guys’ take on intergalactic is kind of showing that you’re kind of losing touch with “norma”l gamers … look at suicide squad, veil guard, the new assassins creed, that Sony game that just lost $200m (can’t even remember the name now cause it’s already irrelevant)
You’re no different from the hardcore feminists of the 2010s. Constantly crying and offended every time a new piece of media comes out. Obsessed with analyzing media and gender. Stop being so sensitive.
Concord lost $200 million plus for Sony (400 million total from the previous owner of the studio)
Can't believe Chris cited Suicide Squad as an example of a "successful" game that faced similar backlash. These people have completely lost the plot. If anything the LSM crew are the ones with anti-Naughty Dog derangement syndrome.
@@haitianxu Chris being one whole literally bashed it as well - the 180 cover up is surreal.
@@TheBlueGoldenHawk oh shit you’re right! I was too lazy to Google it so shot low, I’ll edit and correct 🤣
The fact that you guys are admitting that Intergalactic will sell less than prior ND games is an admittance that you aren’t impressed with what you have seen
@@SleeplessSpecter or maybe they’ve seen the reaction towards the game and can make a reasonable prediction on how well it will sell
Yes they have time to change it to a man so that the gay men get what they want.😂
Intergalactic just didn't look very good for a variety of reasons. The Witcher 4 looked substantially better in comparison (and the numbers back that up) despite still having an actual loud/deranged minority speak out against it..
Colin and co. are increasingly out of touch on this specific issue. Maybe they have "anti-woke derangement syndrome" and are seemingly incapable of understanding why even a "normal " gamer is starting to get sick of certain tropes being used in modern games. I enjoy their discussions on 99% of topics on this show but they seem to have lost the plot on this one thing.
I'd also like to add that the whole "people who disagree with me are just terminally online losers" is part of the reason that some people are starting to be unable to see the nuance on this stuff.
It was 2 cgi trailers.
@ besides the fact your comment is just being purposefully dense, you are wrong.
W4 was pre-rendered but not “CGI.” It was made in-engine with in-game models and assets on what is likely a 5090. That is roughly what the game will look like on high end PCs. As someone who’s played Hellblade 2 on a 4090 that isn’t surprising at all.
Regardless, both trailers were made to give a general idea of the game and communicate its aesthetic and atmosphere to players. One clearly was received much better than the other in doing so.
@@Epiousios18 There's no way you seriously believe that the W4 trailer is what the gameplay will look like.
@ visually? 100% - that’s roughly what it will look like. Those were in-game models and assets. It isn’t 2007 anymore, you’ll need a $3k+ PC for it to look like that, but that’s the ballpark of what future UE5 games will look like.
As I said, that was only marginally better than Hellblade on a 4090 in most areas.
Don't you think it might be that The Witcher is part of an established franchise, with the last being a monumental success, and one being a new IP, so many people who don't know about who made TLOU or Uncharted, don't know they're making this game? It's a silly comparison to make. Of course a sequel to a beloved game will gather more attention than a new IP. I thought that would be self explanatory.
Man there were so many bad faith arguments for this episode.
Well, it's good that we dont have to agree on everything, boys.... cause in my view Anitas best friend Neil has changed Naughty Dog for the worse
they're not best friends, get off the internet its messing with your brain
@Dan-hz4vf I thought it was self explanatory that Ididnt mean they are not real life besties... but ok...nevertheless he really agrees with Anita's insane ramblings and has used her as a consultant... so that in itself is a nett negative for Naughty Dog. If anything can be called woke she is and he listens when she speaks.
@@kjellbjrnasmo480 bro that was like 10 - 15 years ago, just stop it. You need to grow up.
This isnt complicated Colin and LSM crew; if people can like the trailer and up vote it (and you have zero issue with that- which I dont have either), you cant pretend the guys who do the opposite are "out of touch" for judging it negatively based on the same trailer.
Stupid shit like up/down votes will never balance once the filth get their sights on it.
The sales and popularity will drown it out always.
Having incredible difficulty relating to the main character in a long narrative epic is a real problem. These types of games need to cater to the majority audience or risk backlash. In titles where create-a-character is a thing, this isn’t an issue.
Ratchet and clank has entered the chat lol
People can get over themselves or not play a game. It's not difficult.
@@bigtee2000That's usually the line that's given, yes. Then they don't play the game, and that quickly changes to a more aggressive stance demanding patronage from the studios and publishers.
The problem is that no ones given it a chance, "oh its a woman, i cant relate to her" as if shes not a human
@@impomars well, not everyone identifies with a smug narcissist whom the fictional universe itself constantly validates. Which is what many of these contemporary characters kinda are, and Intergalactic is...suggestive of.
maybe people don't like him because he spat on joel 20 mins into the most anticipated game of the last 10 years, maybe?
Joel had it coming. Years of being a hunter and his murder of an entire hospital staff and security, and that’s his just desserts. That people didn’t see it coming is baffling.
Why does Colin act like there aren't real criticisms with NaughtyDog? Stop focusing on the morons on the internet who just moan about women and "wOkE". TLOU2's story and writing is piss poor compared to the 1st. The gameplay is underrated though which is a shame. That's not even mentioning how other PS studios have caught up to ND too. They aren't the main draw as they used to be in the PS3 generation.
How is the writing piss poor? Lmaooo smh
I prefer Tlou2 to the first game and that includes the story...
TLOU2 has one of the best narratives in all of gaming. TLOU1 is basic compared to how bold the second one is.
@@LastMinuteGuess Completely agree
I spent half if not less time with characters like Tess, Sam, Henry, Bill, David, Riley and care more about them than Owen, Mel, Dina, Jesse, Manny, Abby etc. I get the idea but the execution didn't work for me and I found the plot bloated and poorly paced. Just having a big decision at the start about Joel or making you play as Abby didn't really make/break the game for me, the hours after just weren't that great story wise imo. The world also seems less brutal than the one built on in the 1st game. I'm interested to see if the format works better in TV show though. To each their own but I wish Colin would focus on these criticisms and other reasonable ones rather than just the online mob of unfuckable incels.
I’ve bought 80-90% of ND games since the original Crash Bandicoot. There is zero chance I buy this game unless the main character is literally changed. I’m all good on this type of character for the rest of my life
F’ing same dude. I’ve liked all of their games, even last of us 2. But this character broke me. The sad part is this game is exactly what I would have wanted. I just don’t like the character.
All the SS guys had to say was "if you're not into the whole 'badass' masculine woman protag, then fair enough, this game might not be for you". But no...
Why what’s wrong with them?
Great! Hopefully no one has to read another comment by you again on this topic since there's nothing to discuss.
@@lynchdjdang... triggered much?
Naughty Dog is now a studio where the now struggling writing and character teams are absolutely carried by the stellar graphics, environment artist, and gameplay teams - we’ll see how long that can work
TLOU2 is the second most awarded game of all time. You live in a fantasy world.
TLOU2 was a masterpiece. Keep crying because Abby bashed your masculine hero lead in lmaooo. Go touch grass kiddo
Hahaha, these people using game journalists' opinions as the paramount metric to judge a product are delusional. Keep trying to pretend the subpar writing in TLOU2 is something to be commended.
@@xer0signalIf only awards were sales.
Gameplay? Naughty dog ? Not since crash team racing haha.
People don't hate Naughty Dog enough. I'll be rejoicing in Colin's tears in this episode.
Hopefully the gaming industry starts healing and wanna-be movie directors get ejected from their current positions, opening space for talented and creative people. Neil Druckmann would do great in Hollywood, plenty of subpar writers and copycats for him to work with. TLOU2 writing gives him perfect credentials to join the club.
To me it is strange to see people hate games. I mean 80% of all games are probably not for you. I mean how do you have the energy to hate all those bad games? I really don't like 99% of all sports games. But I don't give it any energy.
Perhaps some of the criticism is just badly articulated. What might boil down to "oh no, a woman" in your discussion about the criticism would actually have more nuance and be about how Jordan is completely unsympathetic, even if she was a guy, when further probing why people actually don't like her. I want more from my main character than being a cocky boss babe. I hope we will get that from Jordan, but NDs trajectory has been downhill for a while, for me.
@2:49:50: Chris saying “my daughter is older than my mom, wtf” with the sci-fi slop voice is one of the funniest moments of the show this year.
At first I was pumped about the ending Naughty Dog conversation, but much like the infamous 2-part TLOU2 spoilercast, lots of words were said yet nothing was said at all.
This is my first ever criticism to be honest. It's frustrating the Sacred crew is trying to address peoples problems but so widely missing the mark on why so many people are upset/angry in the first place. Repeatedly calling it "derangement" is so belittling and condescending. I feel like the show desperately needs someone on from the anti woke side, who can articulate points to the hosts, because they come across as trying to tackle a subject they can't/don't understand. This is coming from a day one fan of Colin and the show, and also who's favourite studio is Naughty Dog! :)
I imagine this podcast will be downvoted just like intergalactic.. you boys are on the wrong side of history chris
Jesus Christ. Too bold? What is bold about intergalactic trailer? Product placement in your face, unlikable characters. Like another game with a tough smart ass female lead with a shaved head is pretty played out. The problem is if it’s done well, people wouldn’t care. But with the one super expensive first impression we got, it ain’t it. Leave it to a bunch of dudes who play videos games all day and talk about it for a job to create a straw man that these white knights have to knock down. Smh
Learn the difference between product placement and world building.
Shame people all you want, LSM team. You still won't make us buy the game and that tactic is really stupid as it won't convince anyone.
I just hope we can still separate the derangement from real criticism. There are good and bad reasons for liking/disliking anything. For example Trump Derangement syndrome is absolutely a thing but that doesn't mean every single person who doesn't like Trump is deranged about it and the same applies to Naughty Dog.
Except I haven’t seen any real criticism for disliking naughty dog surrounding this. All I have seen is people crying woke, or that he supports genocide which neither of those things are true.
@@marcushankins8171 Do you think that the fact that you personally haven't seen any is a good enough reason to believe that none exist?
Facts
@marcushankins8171 how have you not seen legitimate criticism? 😂 did you somehow miss the last game they made? Not to mention are you really gonna defend them following this mega weird trend of making all women in games look as bad as possible?
@@marcushankins8171 The distinction is immaterial at this point. The reality is there's a ton of negativity associated with the Naughty Dog brand, justified or not. This is not an online vocal minority, it's clearly not going away, and it will affect sales to a significant degree. Complaining about it being unfair, ignoring and/or doubling down will not change the situation. As Naughty Dog, your choices are:
1. Lower your budget by cutting corners/scaling back so your game is still profitable with lower sales
2. Stay the course and prepare for more lay-offs
3. Make compromises and try to appease fans
Yeh compares new ip for a single player game getting destroyed with dislikes…. Compares it to call of duty lol. You’re applying the same argument used towards dragon age and Star Wars, which both performed poorly. Also the dismissiveness towards pattern recognition, maybe let me help you: overwhelming amount of female protagonist in AAA games, most people who buy games are males, make protagonist represent the nonbinary sect of the consumer base, now you have a pattern of the same narrative in every game but spread through genres, now you have dilution of the consumers. With that said, it’s fine they make this game but I’m sure they aren’t expecting this to be popular and sell well, you would have to be an idiot at this point to assume so.
The only people I've seen bring up the baldness of the Intergalactic lady are the people complaining about the people complaining.
The people complaining about the trailer itself all seem to dislike that she seems like a smug asshole.
I've watched the trailer several times and didn't get "smug asshole" out of it...but even if that's true, how is that not an obvious bounty hunter trope? Why is it a problem if she's a smug asshole...especially when we have ZERO context for when this part of the story is in the game and why she has the attitude she does. The internet is an ill and depressing place lol.
Dude, a lot of popular TH-camrs are literally saying that exact thing.. and just look at comments of all those followers .. so no it’s not the people complaining about the people complaining lol..
Did you not first see the comments on intergalactic before they got turned off? You would be saying this with a straight face without the wild things being said there.
@MitchellMiller1 As a general rule of thumb people don't like smug characters.
Where it tends to work best is when it's followed by an immediate comeuppance. For example: Anytime Han Solo got too full of himself it was immediately followed by the Millenium Falcon light speed not working or Leia kissing her brother.
@itzMarcMan I don't tend to watch a lot of gaming TH-camrs, but all the thumbnails I've seen are the shot of Intergalactic lady sipping the soda while Glenn Close tells her about the dangerous situation. I think that shot in particular is what turned a lot of people off.
Obviously there are just some straight up sexists, but I think writing off all detractors of the trailer as such is disingenuous.
Intergalactic looks incredibly cringe.
They want you to think that. We all have become really really petty when things look woke. Even I. But every time it happens to me I reflect about it.
@@Alienshade What is woke about it?
A bald woman??
You’ve seen 1 cg trailer.
@ tells a lot these days. Pretty sad when I asked my wife what she thought and she said it all looked really lame. What’s the point of appealing to 5% of gamers?
@@StoneShadow812 You have a Sonic villain as your profile picture. There is zero room for you to comment on anyone being cringe.
I feel that for this conversation to be more productive, you need at least one person from the other side who can present the actual argument. This way, you are not just arguing with imaginary opponents to defeat them. I strongly recommend considering having at least one straight man on the panel next time.
So true, the guys just ended up sounding so condescending this episode.
I’m sorry did Dustin literally say the backlash for intergalactic is dumb? It’s actually pathetic how much they Shill for Sony studios. I play on PlayStation and I’m saying this. 👀 It’s pathetic how they’re trying not to get canceled so bad that they can’t even be genuine with their responses about Naughty Dog. 🤣
It is dumb.
It's really one of Colin's biggest flaws, is how much he shills (unfortunately don't have a better word) for Sony and especially Naughty Dog, they haven't even made a "game" in close to a decade. Like everyone has there preferred way of play yadda yadda, but at least have the integrity to criticize the stuff you love too. I love Nintendo, I usually buy a lot of their first party games, but I'm still gonna bemoan them cancelling a Splatoon Tournament over the use of Melee at a different tournament.
It is dumb. LSM's audience is filled with right wing neckbeards who like to use the space as an echo chamber because they will literally be laughed at everywhere else on the internet but convince themselves that they are being reasonable.
@@AwakeTheFallwhat was the last “game” ND released in your opinion?
In what way is a backlash against a three minute trailer not dumb? I'm sure you're right that Colin is slightly biased - he sort of admitted it himself - but to hate something because a woman is in it strikes me as orders of magnitude more ideologically captured.
There is, and always has been since release, valid and completely warranted criticisms of the Last of Us Part II's narrative, direction, and characters. **NakeyJakey's video on it, Erik Kain's review from Forbes (who also defended Chris Avellone), Suggestive Gaming's video on it, etc. and so on.** It's not because of any surface level, vapid reasons like "it's woke" or "Abby is 'x' or isn't 'y'," that the loud minority is flaunting online which is LARGELY what the 'Naughty Dog derangement' segment is railing against. There are plenty of videos and articles online from well-respected people who've laid out their thoughts respectfully on that sentiment. Yes, a lot of the hate Intergalactic is getting online is from the loud minority who have bad faith arguments, but I think plenty of people who were fans of Naughty Dog are just skeptical and worried going forward after playing TLOU II. Naughty Dog is undeniably one of the most prolific and high quality PlayStation first parties around and PS first-party releases frankly come up more sparingly than many fans would like. It's difficult to come to terms with the fact that you are no longer the target audience for a once fan-favorite studio or one of the biggest first-party devs on your preferred platform. Personally, I don't want to sit through another 35 hour experience where I hate playing half of it because a large portion of the game is not resonating with me. But it's a first party title, we don't get those every day, I would like to be part of the conversation, and I like to finish games. At the same time, will I rail against the dev or director online with vitriolic messages? No. But I don't think most people who feel the same way I do will either. We just won't buy the game.
How about, instead of a SS+ episode talking to Hoeg for the 3rd time in two months (love ya Hoeg but it's a lot) about dense and esoteric business dealings in the video game industry, Colin reaches out to folks who have talked openly about their well-thought out, analytical criticisms about TLOU II's narrative issues and have a civil conversation about it. Colin's always talking about how he likes hearing different opinions and is open to debate, right? I know I for one would love for my Patreon dollars to go to a one-off discussion episode like that! It's been four years, ND just announced another game, why not?
Colin, how about giving Bruce Staley credit for TLOU success instead of always mentioning your boy Neil, after all Part One was the much more successful game in terms of sales. Funny how with the Last of us part one success, it always seems Neil takes the credit for it all and never have I seen him once in any interview after the success of the show and the 2 games releases give any credit to Bruce. Bruce did co-direct the game as well yet you never hear about him or even think about him when anyone mentions TLOU. If you guys still don’t understand the public vitriol for part 2 and naughty dog then maybe you guys don’t understand some of your audience, it’s more than just about taking out Joel… 😒
Fun fact, if we ALL don't pay taxes they can't jail everyone. I really don't understand why all Americans can't band together and simply not pay their taxes simultaneously
The Irish actually did something like this and it worked. They tried to install water lines and make them start paying for water. The Irish kept digging them up and destroying them. They refused to pay and then they just gave up on making them pay for water cause they all banded together refusing to pay it.
@@TheAssassinAK47 That's amazing. I honestly don't know a more unifying hate than the hate for the IRS😂
@@TheAssassinAK47I remember it well, my friends mam got jail time for it lol
Americans can’t band together to do anything in this day and age
same goes for demanding a higher min wage so that it becomes a livable one. If everyone who was making min wage walked off the job guess what would happen instantly..... We have more power than we know, but lack the balls to do anything.
The total inability to recognize the natural human preference for beauty over ugliness is astounding.
Yes, many people prefer to role play as physically appealing fictional video game characters. If you have transcended these mortal flesh and blood desires, congratulations. But your failure to understand that you are an outlier is moronic.
ff16 would have been a less enjoyable experience if Clive's character model were the elephant man. Him being cool and physically appealing absolutely contributed positively to the game. Japanese developers understand this. Western devs increasingly do not.
Luckily, the character in Intergalactic isn't or does not look like the elephant man.
Define ‘beauty’
@JoltinJoe the elephant man serves here as the most extreme, objective example of ugliness possible to underscore the point described earlier in the comment. I find it difficult to believe you don't understand how examples work.
@@lichtsa It is in the eye of the beholder, of course. And if you're curious about the eyes of most beholders, check out the like/dislike ratio on that teaser trailer.
@@rainmaker6261 I understand how examples work. Unfortunately, you chose a terrible one to make a point.
Let us take a look at it from that elitist mindset that people couldn't handle that "bold" direction of story telling. It comes down to what Colin mentioned about who or what a product is genuinely made for. ND in making that decision had to know what they were in for. Neil also has some very disliked view points. Ones I'm sure the audience that "couldn't handle" the decision to take its story in that direction. Probably are what people blamed for that sharp course change. I feel in TLOU2, ND wanted Ellie to come full circle as a person and she most definitely did. Becoming an adult, losing a somewhat parental figure, and how she was ultimately losing herself becoming a cold blooded killer in the name of revenge just like Abby. It's fine. It's angry, but not a bad story. The thing that I am pretty sure why people didn't like this game wasn't the direction of the game. I believe it was how it handled the "Boldness" of killing off one of its previous leads in Joel. Almost feeling more like a spit in the face more than anything else. You can argue that Joel was no hero. What he did at the end of part 1 alone was enough to condemn him. People don't like to think of things that way though. Maybe the full tone of the world was just missed by certain people? Maybe it wasn't fully conveyed. Story changes like that just wasn't something that would be well received by a good number of people. I know some people that refuse to go back and play after getting to that part. Never even finishing the game. Whether I think its a waste or not is irrelevant. It's their view and its not my job to defend Neil's harsh vision. They just took a gamble. A gamble that I will say had some strange out comes. At the same time the world that this game released in is also very much different than when the first released. A world where everyone is against each other for trivial means. Once a line is drawn each side will drag whatever in the argument to "validate their point". TLOU fan base just had people that agreed to it's new direction and others that didn't. It escalated and like children on the internet bad things were flung. Neil also went against one side. Upset that people didn't agree with his vision. Now. Neil has made his enemies and its not gonna stop.
Maybe I’m oversimplifying it but when you kill off a beloved character then you are forced to play as the killer as some way of preaching perspective and layer that with Abby being not as likable as Joel or Ellie and what we get a a “Last Jedi” level of subversion that blows up in everyone’s faces. Fans won’t forget that. And it will fail to meet sales expectations because these types of games are not compelling to casual gamers like COD and sports titles.
Theres also a lot of revisionist history on TLOUpt1. They either say Amy Hennig wrote it or Bruce Straley was influencing Neil so much that the first game basically had none of Neils Ideas they completely deny Neil any flowers whatsoever. Its absolute madness.
This has got to be one of the most disingenuous responses you guys have ever had. The paying customers and the general audience are tired of characters and games like this. To say that the online response has no bearing on sales is extremely ignorant. Think about all the “woke” games from 2023 and 2024 that have flopped that had similar unattractive characters and Studio leadership that replied negatively to fan criticism. Let’s’s not forget that naughty dog and Neil Druckmann straight up said they no longer want to make games with straight white character leads. Im not white, but I am a huge fan of Nathan Drake and because their idiotic rhetoric we may never get a sequel. Have you guys learned nothing from this most recent election? People are tired of this. Gamers, and the general audience, whether it comes to movies or games, are voting with their wallets now more than ever. Concorde, suicide squad, dust born. Should I go on? Can’t wait for the episode next year, when you guys discuss the poor sales of this game and the potential closing of naughty dog Studios and hear what BS excuse you give.
@@kingofhearts985 Very well said 👏
Unfortunately I think it's human nature, at least Colin's nature. When he was super political on twitter many years ago, he would completely ignore the best counters to his political views, only ever responding to the weakest responses.
All three of you guys for years have underplayed wokeness and culture war battles that go on with these new games. You guys have said this stuff doesn’t contribute to a games success or failure and you are totally wrong. It isn’t everything but it absolutely matters.
I think they just don't agree with what the vocal minority considers "woke". Simply having a female lead or a black person in the game isn't woke.
It has nothing to do with it
@@marcushankins8171 it clearly has an impact. How big depends but to say it has nothing to do with it is silly
@@marcushankins8171You are literally a left-wing bot
@@marcushankins8171… found the naughty dog employee 😂😂😂
Colin glazes the last of us like it’s the Bible and he’s a disciple.
Such bad takes on the last of us part 2. Dustin goes to explain exactly why people are upset by using star wars as a comparison but fails to make the connection. People feel the exact same way about the writing in the last of us and what happens with Joel. It wasn’t believable for Joel get into that situation based on how we understood Joel from the first game. Also people are upset because a lot of people cherished the characters and story of the first game and then felt like they had characters assaulted in every way in the sequel.
Damn, all those same reasons for why I enjoyed it.
I never understood why it was so unbelievable for Joel to be in that situation. He trusted Sam and Henry in the first game pretty quickly. How the hell would he know the girl who's life he randomly saved was there to kill him lol. He's not some trained CIA agent
Colin is frustrating to listen to about anything naughty dog. The first game is one of the greatest stories ever told in video game form, if not the greatest. It’s like the matrix part 1. Maybe we all had high expectations but part 2 is probably the most pretentious story every told and tries but fails to force you to like one of the the most unlikeable characters every thought up. High production value and Sony spamming cash to naughty dog cannot save the crapshoot that tlou2 was. To go from universal acclaim to this kinda divisive response and not take any responsibility is one way to react, but no longer are naughty dog games blind day 1 buys from me and many others. Good luck getting casual players to buy a 70 new ip, while ignoring the feedback from your most hardcore audience.
"It's all just lip service"
Tell that to Concord, Star Wars Outlaws and Dragon Age lol
Oh word? Tell that to *all of the most popular games today*
It’s cute that you slugs only ever bring up those three games, meanwhile the entire landscape of gaming has moved on past you weirdos. It’s never going back to what you want. Move on or fuck off.
Intergalactic: Forspoken 2, Insufferable Space Dyke Vs The Masculine Menace
I can tell by the title, you misunderstand the dislike for naughty dog and specifically Neil. It’s ok for people to 1. Be tired of the girl boss trope. I’m sure she’s a woke character and if not, then a Mary Sue. Who is just so good at everything, even better than men at all the physical stuff! You go girl!.. uh tired character type. 2. what’s wrong with females having strong female attributes. Is it only male physical attributes that matter? Women are in fact better with relationships/ royal court intrigue, being that X factor that shows up. Keeps the team from falling apart, negotiating complex personality types to work with one another, but I guess those female traits suck compared to male physical traits. So we have to give the women their girl boss physical powers as physically strong women... boring and overused character type again. (And talk to a girl did you know they actually like love stories, weird huh?) 3. Lastly Neil is preachy. So woke he talks about things and insert things into games that we as a society are still figuring out (like trans issues ridiculous, and trans kids is literally evil stuff the left support and so does naughty dog and Neil) he thinks he so enlightened to force to play as the villain, when in actuality he doesn’t respect the audience or the player or the hero’s journey that is the encouragement for all of us, modern day myths that help us aim high. So that is why it’s fine for people to pre-dislike this game and send a message: we want better.
I gotta say, it’s a bold strategy to essentially call half your audience “deranged” because we didn’t like the writing of TLOU 2 and the character design from Intergalactic. Big yikes…
*Spoilers TLOU 2*
Also, most people weren’t mad that Joel was killed… It was the manner in which he was killed. It was poor writing to have him killed off the way he did. He was killed because he revealed his name was Joel. Tommy and Joel survived for years because they didn’t give out detailed information to people they didn’t know. Suddenly, they go into a house of people they don’t know and start giving them all their information? Then in the end, Ellie kills off hundreds of people to reach Abby and then just lets her go? It’s just bad writing.
Also, The actress who plays Jordan in Intergalactic just recently put out a post saying “You mad bro?” That featured fan art with the title “Fragile Masculini-tea”. Of course she deleted the post and you guys wonder why nobody cares to play this. People are tired of being preached at from celebs who don’t like you. Intergalactic deserves to fail.
Joel from the beginning of TLOU was not the same person he was at the end TLOU, and Joel at the end of TLOU wasn't the same person he was at the beginning of TLOU2. 4 Years had passed since, he is happily living in a functioning community, where one of his tasks was to help outsiders. Joel clearly have been softening in Jackson, the museum scene is the perfect example of that. When he and Tommy came across Abby, she was close to being killed, Joel helps her, and they fight together against infected. What reason Joel has to suspect Abby as a nefarious person? Also Abby's squad at first glance doesn't even look threatening. Group made of young people, with both genders, unlike hunters or even David's group from the first game.
@@obey400 that’s inaccurate. Their only job was to clear infected from around their camp. They weren’t obligated to help anybody. People change but survival instincts doesn’t. Also, the group they met were all armed, so they were still a threat. Joel would never go into the house where they shut the door behind them and let them get flanked. Him and Tommy certainly would never divulge information that would put their own camp at risk. Telling a group of random people whom are armed where your camp is, is a major risk.
@@TheOff1ceFan They clearly have increased the population in Jackson with outsiders, what are you talking about? Like Joel and Ellie themselves? Notes in the game show that outsiders have joined Jackson when doing the guarding tasks. And when it comes to Abby's squad, so what if they have weapons, it would be pretty stupid to move around in hostile grounds with no weapons? Abby's group also saved Joel and Tommy before they killed Joel. What reason they have to doubt these people? Explain? The only Reason Joel got killed was because they had reason to kill Joel. Basically very bad luck. Joel and Tommy also didn't have anywhere else to go. It was be or be killed.
@ you are doing mental gymnastics trying to justify Joel forgetting how to survive. Also, Jackson was massive at the end of the first Last of Us, so you can’t say one way or another that it has grown a bunch. You would not survive in a post apocalyptic world based on your outlook lmao
@@TheOff1ceFan You cannot counter my arguments, because you're overly emotional over entertainment product. I Gave you reasons why Tommy and Joel would act like they did. You gave me bunch of what ifs. group of 8 kids are not a threat to Jackson.
Respect the Intergalactic conversation, but I think you guys are mostly wrong about ND and ND.
Why was there a cut at 2:50:57? Seems a bit of an odd time to cut
These guys dont interact with regular people much anymore. And its showing. Its not a bald woman that concerns gamers. But a future chic whos mad about trump winning, is concerning when people dont want political crap pushed in their leisure time. Its not coincidental the space chic is shaving her head in the open introduction to the character. Thats 100% intentional. And the creators of the game are absolutely on baord. You dont turn off your comments to your brand new title when your excited to show off your work. You invite feedback, unless your intentionally doing something nefarious.
Okay, what's political about the game? Seriously. What does the trailer imply politically?
Gotta learn the hard way I guess … do you want a forspoken or a ff6? The quality is not ff6 we are getting mid range stuff that’s why people are bashing naughty dog but ultimately it’s speculation we have to wait and see . People want everything from naughty dog but the truth is they are not that studio anymore.
Forspoken has good gameplay but the story and dialogue is not the best and very uninteresting . What keeps me playing is the gameplay it feels a bit like infamous.
FF6 starts and ends strong
Kingdom hearts 1 story is what carry’s it the gameplay was very mid etc
I think lost legacy was the moment where a lot of fans started to turn on naughty dog. People called it feminist propaganda due to the focus on Female characters along with how it conveyed male characters (especially Sam) making them either evil or dopey. The ending probably didn’t help either where it had 3 females eating pizza while happily excluding the male. I always saw it as a throwback to feminist grindhouse 70s movies, but most of the internet seemed to compare it to Ghostbusters 2016 which admittedly is hard to disagree with since it followed a similar template with its statement.
I recently played through the PS5 versions of LL and 4, and it was evident that they dumbed Sam down to make Chloe and Nadine (even the little girl from the market) outshine him.
In 4 he’s incredibly quick-witted, capable, and the group’s expert on pirates. Nate even acknowledges that. But in LL he’s just turned into the comedy relief character. He doesn’t have any moments to shine because the story about women doesn’t allow for that.
This is the essence of the woke debate. Tearing down or diminishing male characters in favour of female ones in a male dominated space is going to have consequences. It doesn’t matter how anyone personally feels about that, it is fact.
@ when the game first released the woke stuff was completely foreign to me. But after seeing arguments about its supposed agenda it’s definitely hard to dispute it, especially looking back at that era where it seemed like a big trend in the entertainment world.
@@BooBanana exactly. And the fact that Neil Druckmann is known to have collaborated with Anita Sarkesian, a feminist grifter, informs people’s views of what his intentions are with regard to storytelling.
I love TLoU 1 and 2. But I can see people’s criticisms for the story in 2 and appreciate them to an extent. Watching the making of documentary for 2 and seeing who the other writer was and how she speaks (told people criticising her writing to “suck a dick” in the video) gave me a lot of insight into why certain decisions were made.
Forgot to submit but I think but the 10% steak that Sony now has is them not pulling another bungie situation. I think this allows them to get into the company and see what’s really going on behind doors before they end up making the full purchase in the next year or so.
Colin didn't wish us a happy Kwanzaa, racist.
So this podcast is just "Don't ask questions, just consume product and then get excited for next product"
“We don’t take money from companies so we can be unbiased with our opinions “ 😉
The only honest point Colin made was TLOU2 probably underperformed. It's a shame he doednt have the brains to understand why.
This podcast doesn't understand what "woke" is. They also counter with extreme strawman arguments. Yes she doesn't need hair but she also doesn't have to shave down to bald, why even wear certain clothing, why are many woman Niel puts in look like men and are abnormally/extremely strong and muscular? Why not just make the character male? Why not just put a feminine woman if you want to put a woman. The equivalent argument would be if most males Neil put in a game were hyper feminized, very skinny sensitive and weak with very little muscle...I'm sure these guys would get it then ..
why does the video game representation took less attractive then the actress who is playing her? thats they type of red flags that make people think woke over substance. now there are also instances where projects get stray fire just due to being a game in this era. well see how this plays out.
I like Colin, but listening to him trying to defend naughty dog is painful. This game looks concord bad, and you can’t blame people for being sick of radical feminist characters.
I don’t really care because I just won’t buy it, but I understand people being disappointed.
We've seen ZERO actual gameplay but it looks concord levels of bad?? also the main character is a bald female that wants to do a bounty job but shes a radical feminist? how? I think yall just hate for actually no reason at all cuz otherwise id agree with you but I cant simply off a announcement trailer that barely gave us anything to go off except thats its a Sci-Fi game.
I didn’t know Asian women were radical.
@@ancientflames exactly.
@@TheREALJohnL He had to start his comment with 'I like Colin". WTF
@ watch the way she and the other woman were acting
I don't even care about "woke" or "DEI" stuff, but I guess I just wish Western games could match the same magic from ~15 years ago. The Uncharted trilogy, Mass Effect trilogy, Halo trilogy, Gears of War triogy, God of War trilogy, Bethesda games from this time, early CoDs, Rockstar games from the 2000s, etc. Like... there's clearly something missing and it's just not as fun anymore. Nearly everything that people buy and really enjoy is coming out of East Asia.
The way Joel was killed off in TLOU2 was so braindead and sloppily done it was almost shocking it was from NAUGHTY DOG, that's not the only reason that game sucked the pacing was awful, unlikeable characters among many other things, it's sad to see how far they've fallen. Bruce and Amy were the masterminds of ND NOT NEIL CUCKMANN. PERIOD
I've NEVER had a problem playing as women/black/gay characters in games
Horizon ZD back in 2017? 0 problem
Finding out Ellie was gay? 0 problem
etc.
What I'm particularly annoyed with is forced and unnecessary inclusion in games. Best example l have right now is Uncharted Lost Legacy. Can you imagine how funny it would've been to play as Chloe with Sully? Saying innapropiate jokes from time to time and stuff... But no, Neil Druckmann had to bring the character with the least charisma and personality simply because of being a black woman. It just made NO SENSE. Even Elena could have had more sense
Ok, I’m gonna play devils advocate here, so please remember this is not how I personally feel, but what I think people are really mad about with Intergalactic.
You frustratingly danced around that it’s not really just a ND thing, or a woman thing, but a wider trend in entertainment, starting with Disney. These guys don’t like the fact that all of their entertainment seems to be trending towards not only replacing men in lead roles, but replacing them with unattractive women with basically all of the characteristics of a man. Star Wars has gone out of their way to do this to such an extent, that the hate has spilled out into all artistic mediums. Star Wars and video games have all been traditionally nerdy and male, and these fans are tired of seeing every character turned into woke propaganda.
Again I think it’s immature and stupid, but this is basically what Asmongold and his audience have stated. It’s a culture war, and they see anything other than a traditionally attractive woman, or man as an attack and take over of the things they love.
Exactly and its pretty gross how many people pretend like it isn't a huge trend that's been going on for almost a decade
You can think its immature and stupid all you want but the numbers dont lie, games that push woke or are far left DO NOT SELL.
I grew up playing uncharted 1-3. I love naughty dog games. 4 is my favorite game ever. I loved the last of us 1 and 2. I love lost legacy. I even liked the vita game. But I don’t like the trailer for intergalactic. People need to stop acting like character design isn’t important. If that was the case then why do people buy skins in games? Why do we have transmog in rpgs? Why do we have character creators? And why are there so many people who do cosplay as their favorite characters at conventions? There is an art to character design. And this Jordan character in intergalactic just doesn’t seem appealing visually at all. The vibe of the trailer is very intriguing, the music is sick, the colors are vibrant, and I like the new sci fi direction, but if I have to play as that character for 20-50 hours it’s going to be a slog,
If they wanted to make a cool character based off Akira or Cowboy Bebop they should have looked at the females from those animes. Look at Faye Valentine or Caneda’s girl from Akira. Or even another great anime in Ghost in the shell. Motoko Kusanagi is one of the most iconic looking female characters ever made. Instead they created a character that somehow makes a very pretty black woman in real life, look ugly and bald and unappealing. Wow.
The questions Colin cherry picked about Intergalactic only fits his argument that people just hate ND and female characters. Not true and is showing Colin is becoming out of touch with the culture. If you want to see a Co that gets scrutinized by YTbers on a daily basis, it's Ubisoft. The new AC game doesn't even look as bad as videos make it out to be. It only gets criticized for their casting of Yasuke who was placed in the game to virtue signal. That's my issue really with LOU2. Forget about the developers, I'm just judging by the game.
If the game wasn't downvoted to hell, there would be no controversy. If it was just Uncharted in Space, I bet it would have gotten the opposite reaction. I will argue we didn't see enough to make a judgement, but that lead character didn't have a positive effect. The important thing, I think that is being ignored for political reasons is you have to have a character that is marketable. If ND really wanted to be accurate about a woman going bald and not wearing makeup in space, why do we have 17 year old teenagers beating the shit out of grown men in LOU2. I personally don't care about that as it's fiction, but just pointing that out that Colin is giving them way too much credit. At least they were aware of the optics by making Abby built like Rambo.
I'm not invested in the LOU like some fans. I think the game is technically impressive with great animations. My only issue is that its Juno in the apocalypse. If shit hit the fan, people would not be so combative with the social issues we debate now. It would just be how can I survive another day like the Road or Terminator Future War. I'm pretty sure in that future, people don't care if you think you are a man in a woman's body. Can you pick up a gun and turn those machines into junk.
Does nobody remember the Coca-Cola ad in Blade Runner? Nobody remembers the Hilton Space Station in 2001 A Space Odyssey?
I mean you really compared a 1-2 ads with the plethora thats in this game?
different times. Product placement hits differently in 2024, and media doesn’t exist in a vacuum, it exists in a time and place. I guarantee you if Blade Runner were made today people would look askance at the Coke ad in it; that says very little about the movie, but it says a ton about the times we live in now.
yep LSM is gone full woke now. time to find another talking heads.
Regarding not that many shooters as of late. I am once again humbly requesting Colin play Atomic Heart. I really think he'd like it, and the trophies are fixed afaik.
I loved it
Not sure how much Colin will as he can be super picky. I think he'll like the gameplay probably. Its really solid.
Atomic Heart is one of the best games I’ve played in recent memory. Played it on GP when it came out but have been meaning to pick it up on PS5 for the platinum.