I think that a big part of what made the early Marvel movies memorable is the fact that they were really a variety of subgenres. Thor was science fantasy, Captain America was a WW2 movie, Ironman was modern day science fiction. When you put them all together in the Avengers, they all feel so wildly different. The reason Winter Soldier is remembered so fondly is because it was a spy thriller. Ant-Man was a heist movie. Civil War's core plot was a character drama between two characters we already cared about, who already felt important. But then the identities of the movies were all thrown into a blender and what came out was an Action Comedy smoothie. Nothing feels different from movie to movie now. Ant-man 3 was probably the worst of them, because it undermined the individuality of Ant-man by taking him out of the normal world full of normal objects that gave his size-shifting a sense of scale. Each installment is just a Marvel film. And I think Deadpool & Wolverine is probably the peak of what an Action Comedy can be, because it's free to crank up the blood of the action and to destroy the boundaries of the comedy thanks to the R rating. Of course, the more modern problem is that they're trying to tie-in the streaming shows as well. I've yet to see a made for streaming show that I loved. Most of them set up the scenario, run pointless sidequests for more than half the season, and then conclude in an unsatisfying way because there has to be another season and a few spinoffs and more, more, more. Movies and shows should stand on their own, and not require a shared universe to have value. A shared universe should not be homework and Marvel used to know that.
So much this. Recent Marvel movies felt like they received a checklist they had to work from. While the new Deadpool is also an action comedy, it very much does its own thing and is so much better for it.
Eh, not really. The movies were always your basic superhero fare, just with a light sheen of other dramas. When you actually apply the spy and heist conventions to Winter Soldier or Ant Man they fall drastically short.
Maybe that's why I'm still holding out some cautious hope for F4 and Blade. I want to like those characters and given that they have to be introduced before mashing them into every other character, perhaps if we're lucky those films threaten to have a sense of new identity to call their own with their own genre homages.
@@ashuebot-tabi4449 Even if that's true, there is a big difference between plain oatmeal and oatmeal with sugar and fruit, or with honey, or with cinnamon.
It's bitterly ironic that Disney has to rely on Fox when their own films began to dive in quality. The Simpsons is still somehow relevant even under the mascot of an evil corporation. their Alien, Predator and Planet of the Apes films have been well-received and did decent numbers; Avatar continues to do massively at the box office (far greater than a majority of Disney's own films); Fox Searchlight has been their one film division that's been giving them Oscar gold; FX is pulling in all of the prestige TV accolades; and now we have Marvel pulling a No Way Home but for Fox's X-Men franchise, a franchise that Disney taught fans to shun because they weren't part of the MCU despite their influence to the superhero genre. Even X-Men 97 is still technically based on a Fox Kids property. Disney bought out Fox out of hubris because of Iger's desire to make Disney+ massive enough to beat Netflix (when the Murdochs were willing to sell) with the intention of slowly killing it and picking its corpse of what they wanted the most (i.e. Fox's IP), but when their own system began to falter, they were forced to rely on them just to maintain a semblance of quality. I don't see this changing any time soon judging from the chaos ensuing from Disney's main film divisions. Even still then, you are basically giving money to a gigantic corporate monolith that seeked (and still seeks) to consume and influence all entertainment and them buying Fox was a part of that. So you're still supporting Disney no matter what if it's Disney or Fox.
Yep. And Searchlight is the only wing of the company doing genuinely interesting things. (“Rosaline” and “No One Will Save You” are among the best Disney movies of the past few years.)
"Playing on Nostalgia" is a very good term to use for what Disney is doing to make profits these days. For 'Deadpool and Wolverine' most of the time that I wasn't laughing was spent saying "I remember that character from this movie/series' or 'where do I remember that character from'. Effectively, Disney is the EA of film companies.
What of the 20+ live action feature films in the marvel universe before Disney ever bought Disney? I like the Blade movies, but there's some not great stuff in there... And Lucas Art? Star Wars was pretty dead by the time Disney bought it... At the time it was the animated The Clone Wars series that was the only thing Star Wars on TV and on the computer you were stuck with the Star Wars: The Old Republic MMO... There was a ton of SW computer games announced before the Lucas Art buyout, that looked cool in the trailers, but they were only trailers and no actual gameplay. So while it was a huge shame that the closed LA and cancelled all those cool looking games/trailers (like 1313), whether those would have been actually any good when released is an interesting question. You can say a LOT about Disney, but they did reinvigorate old IPs that at the time were already dying... That they can't keep going for 10-15+ years at that same speed/success isn't all that strange/surprising. If you have good weather, you make use of it for as long as possible, because tomorrow the weather might change. It's not a question IF the weather will change, but when. And the weather has changed for not just Disney/Marvel/Star Wars, it has for many other IPs and companies. Some for the better and some for the worse. Let's not forget that in 1999 the old school SW fans absolutely hated on Episode #1, 16 years after Episode #6 came out. Now many old school fans are hating on Episode #7-#9 10 years after Episode #3 came out. While I liked the original 3 movies, I didn't dislike the prequels, I haven't been able to finish Episode #7 though... Why is that? When each batch of SW movies were made, they were aimed at the audience of that time and while some media keep being popular, that's certainly not the case for everything. A current 10 year old doesn't get into SW due to the original 3 movies, probably because of current animation shows, recent/current computer games or current toys (like Lego Star Wars). In the same way, while we old farts pretty much detest the sequel movies, a friends kids really like them... Maybe some people are just old and don't realize it yet. Old people tend to hate the new stuff... Things like Rock & Roll... ;) I don't really care if the biggest company on the planet gets my money or a slightly less big company gets my money. If they make something I want, chances are good that I'll pay for it. And we as people don't just watch/consume 'quality', we want to be entertained and sometimes it's just something that is just fun to watch, light entertainment that many would just call bad. The original Dune movie has a special place in my heart for example, we used to call that a 'cult following'... That was not bad, it just was... For-profit companies exist to make money for their owners, that is their sole purpose. Those that don't we call non-profits. And not every company might be as blatant about it as Disney, but they are ALL in it for the money. This is our economic and political system, it's not perfect, but it works. People have tried other systems, they failed, just ask the USSR... Am I happy about it? Hell no! But it's the reality of the matter. If you think you can avoid the system (while posting on TH-cam for &$^% sake!), I think you are very misguided. As for the Cargo Cult... In Tech we have things like clean room design and reverse engineering, where we look at the output and try to understand something without pulling it apart and copying it wholesale. At what point is a game a clean room design vs. a Cargo Cult? And I'm also wondering if trying to spend the time/resources on actually analyzing/researching/understanding on why XYZ works is from a corporate perspective wasted resources. Make a game while doing this, use the shotgun approach. We can all hate on EA, but they have captured a huge market share with just yearly rehashes. I'm not the target audience, but there are many that are. Many of the games I play are not for that EA audience. Just like I detest Big Brother, there is no denying that there is a huge fanbase and has made oodles of money. Just because I don't like it doesn't mean it shouldn't exist...
Having avoided all the trailers, I did not expect that gut punch that was the credits. A good chunk of those movies are messy but damn did they at least try something. I would've liked the actor who played Ray Donovan back as sabertooth. But I get what they were aiming for. Also, Legion, that's a name I haven't heard in a long time. My mother loved the hell out of that show.
Disney\Marvel has done one unique thing recently and that was Werewolf by Night. That short, one-shot story was so unique and effective with the material. It also didn't really connect to the overall MCU storyline. The use of Black and White film heavily influenced by the old Universal Monster films was such a breath of fresh air. Great score too.
I can see that, but I would also argue that it's very obvious that the show was shot for the 4:3 aspect ratio, but decided late in the game that they wouldn't use it. Which is a shame, because it creates a lot of dead space in the frame.
Disney didn't launch an expansive shared universe they bought one - the Netflix Daredevil etc shows I'm pretty sure started production prior to Disney's acquisition and the MCU was a shared universe even before that.
But wouldn't it also be fair to say that RDJ and the Russos failed to find success outside of the MCU and are coming back for their own glory and safety? RDJ - Dolittle Russos - Cherry, The Grey Man, & Citadel
@@hallopino Oh, it’s mutually beneficial. Certainly for the Russos, although they could never work another day and retire multi-, multi-, multi-millionaires. But Downey also must won an Oscar, is about to win an Emmy, is being paid well over $80m and getting - and I quote - “a whole trailer encampment.”
@@Darren_Mooney Yeah, bit of a stretch for RDJ, but he did fail at trying to transfer the Stark star power into being a leading man, and is just a very very good supporting actor in other projects.
They're going to have to figure out an interesting way to play it, because I suspect most people who've lost interest in the MCU aren't going to watch all the intermediate movies to catch up on the lore before watching the new stuff with RDJ.
The ironic thing about Disney mining IP for their parks is that even that is lacking in New ideas. To be honest, I haven't seen them do anything truly interesting in their parks since Pandora. Not to mention going to a Disney park has gotten outrageously expensive. But, I think you have gotten to the heart of why Disney owning everything is bad news in general.
@@Darren_Mooney The rot has been there for a while, but Jenny's video pops the balloon that Disney is interested in doing innovation in the parks. Unfortunately, the modern CEO tendency isn't going to reverse it.
@@Darren_Mooney Loved that video. It was genuinely painful to see the staff, or should I say "cast", of the hotel trying their best when the overall experience was so pathetic.
Other than literally mickey mouse and friends I cant tell any IP disney came up with originally. Most of the fairy tales are a basterdization of existing ones while others are from studios they bought.
l thought Deadpool+Wolverine was quite a strategic move on a meta level,, it's no secret that the mcu feels unfocused over the course of the past several years, and this was a blockbuster movie a lot of people genuinely wanted to see that was able to sympathise with how the audience feels while also connecting/refocussing some of the loose strands. It gave me the sense that they might finally get back on track, and seeing how next year they wanna release 4 major movies and with the announcements made at comic con last weekend it feels as if they've finally decided to lock onto an long-term plan, which is something they very much needed. This movie might not "save" the mcu on its own, but it might be a stepping stone to go in a good direction again, if they decide on a long-term plan and stick to it like in the first few phases of the mcu
disney is where creativity goes to die. and it is always nice to see someone else sharing the data that: The Rat makes money from parks and toys. everything else is in service of that.
just annoying that it took all that corporate BS in order for some publisher to finally greenlight a proper deadpool wolverine movie. as a comic nerd, this has been absolutely what I wanted for years. The fact they actually made it, little worrying. as that was always something that was never feasible for the industry. still gonna take my win and enjoy the movie though. Now make a new blade movie.
There really are competing emotions in me i know i will have a good time with the deadpool movie coming out, but at the same time i have a big super hero fatigue in me. We will have to see which side wins when it comes to sweden.
It came to Sweden last week :P I also have the fatigue and haven't seen a Marvel movie in 2 years. The new Deadpool felt like a fresh breeze, and a love letter to the "classic" Marvel movies. It's well worth it imo.
My only real criticism about this video is that it sort of underemphasizes how dependent/successful Disney is on its theme parks. It was a core part of the business since Walt lead the company, not a recent phenomena at the company to majorly invest in the parks. Its the reason why Disney was one of the first to reopen during covid, inspite it being too soon, because covid was an existential threat to the company. Otherwise, pretty good, well laid out essay.
Having just seen it the other day, they had way better cameos, but all of them are spoilers from the plot, which is why they aren't in the marketing. and I am so glad it wasn't spoiled for me.
Fair point, but that was a studio run independently within Disney. It’s worth bringing up, I think, just as - say - Disney inheriting a win with “Nomadland”, but getting into that level of nitty-gritty would have derailed the video. But absolutely a valid point to raise and discuss in the comments.
Something went really wrong when nerds like me started not giving a shit about Star Wars and super heroes, but the normies did. And I still can't pinpoint exactly when and how it happened...
I am tired of superheroes but Huge Jacked Man's Wolverine has such a legacy and God's Perfect Idiot's Deadpool was such a breath of fresh air I couldn't not like this film.
But with it doing shows like Loki and legion it does shows there might be some life in this dead pool. Even if by this whole thing it is very little. Thanks for the video Daren.
I think the "hate" for Fox's Marvel movies is overblown and seldom ever applied to the actors. People are happy to see former Marvel actors return because they killed it in their respective roles. As for the movies, Fox gave us X-2, First Class, Days of Future Past, Logan and Blade, so it wasn't all bad.
@@thez28camaromanNo the hate is there, if you love characters such as Rogue, Cyclops, Storm, Jubilee or literally anyone else who isn’t Wolvie, Chuck or Magnetic Man. Those movies are like seeing Origins Deadpool again and again. Yes I know the 2000s were a different time, but those characters were still relevant, making their treatment terrible. X-Men 97 is so good because it turns the idea of Wolverine being the most important character on its head.
I just yesterday got a chance to finally watch No Way Home. I feel like it may have hit differently without the intended zeitgeist. It also didn't help that I've seen the Toby Maguire movies but not the Andrew Garfield ones.
I think that movie assumed most people didn't, or dislked the ones with Garfield. As they basically used that movie to put lot more character into him, making him less "broody" as most felt he was.
There's a great difference between a sense of levity, and a sense of fun. Disney films are usually light enough to avoid offending these days (never forget the woods escape during snow white),but a sense of boundless joy and/or trying everything you can do is usually missing.
I'll try to be coy in terms of direct spoilers (though if you haven't seen Deadpool & Wolverine yet, I wouldn't read this to be safe), but I got more out of the movie than I thought I would. I was apprehensive about them bringing back Hugh Jackman because, well, Logan ended on such a high note that I felt it would cheapen it. Especially since, yeah, Disney likely wanted to mine as much nostalgia as humanly possible, and them buying Wolverine outta retirement (so to speak) feels icky. On the other hand, both of these actors are among the most well-casted superheroes in movie history, and it's a shame they never had a proper movie together, so that makes it easier to digest. It's like the filmmakers wanted to go back in time and give us the payoff that never was. And that ties into all of the cameos too. I certainly assumed Deadpool being in the MCU would mean a lot of pointless cameos from whoever's big at the moment, whether it made sense or not. But instead, the cameos are reserved for actors/characters who never really got their dues (for one reason or another), be it because the franchise ended, the movies were never that good to begin with, or never existed. It was quite touching during the credits to see a montage of behind the scenes clips from the earlier Fox X-Men movies (the good, and bad). Whatever was going on behind the scenes with executives and directors, there was a sense that they cared about what they were doing, and it's nice to see them get one last hurrah. Granted, it's still weird because it plays almost like an "in memorium" section for a studio that was consumed by Disney. It's almost like having a speaker at a funeral give a touching eulogy to the person they just murdered.
@@Darren_Mooney Yeah... I don't know how to feel about it. The movie does plenty of ripping on the MCU and Disney, but ultimately, it still IS an MCU Disney movie, so it does come off as a bit hypocritical. Then again... what else could the filmmakers really do? I'm reminded of "The Good Place", and the revelation that the modern world has gotten so complex and interwoven that basically every good act has bad consequences in some way. And you can't make a big movie like this in the modern movie system without some degree of compromise. For me, I guess I go with whether what came off on the screen felt inspired or tired. And I do feel like, even though the movie isn't perfect (I could have used more time in Deadpool and Wolverine's own worlds respectively), that everyone is bringing their A-game, and it shows.
I remember overhearing a conversation between a couple gangster mimes, years ago. This was in a video game that will likely never be remade or get a sequel because of copyright issues, which is a genuine tragedy, but I digress. The crux of the gangster mimes' conversation was that being impressive leaves one's work vulnerable to being displaced by the next work that just has more of the thing you brought to the table, but being interesting is memorable and has real staying power. Should Disney be taking advice from fictional killer mimes? I don't know.
I guess that it is less a Disney problem then a Bob Iger problem, he is riskphobic unlike Eisner which is why the product of the non-Fox parts of Disney end up as chewed. Just to show how bad Iger is we see FX going with a Shogun season 2 instead of Tai-Pan, it is probably an Iger move because of what happened to Marvel and we are talking about the guy who killed Twin Peaks.
Yep. But the problem is that Iger is building a legacy in his own image. This is a guy who came back after getting out at the perfect time, because he was worried that Chapek was ignoring him. I think Iger's remodelled the company in his own image.
A lot of reviewers have said the same thing as to why Furiosa failed: It was a prequel to a 9 year old very niche movie, one that didn't do that well in the box office to begin with, about a character that isn't the focus of the said niche franchise, played by a different actress, who we already know what is going to happen to her in the future. It was almost made to fail in the box office, because it was already cutting out half or more of it's very niche core audience already, and confused a lot of the public who didn't know what to expect from it... And thus it made just under half of what Fury Road did. The head math does kind of fit. Critically, yes, it is brilliant, just like Fury Road. But it doesn't matter how good a movie is, if no one wants to go see it.
While I thought Deadpool & Wolverine is fine the amount of cameo Fanservice only added to this prevailing thought in my head that just keeps asking why do all of this Fanservice before your 2 big multiversal Fanservice movies? Like this still would be Fanservice with old X men characters but the fact they went out of their way to bring other older characters from good to frankly bad movies & treating them with reverence is very confusing like sorry I love the actors but the movies apart from 2 movies (spoiler vampires involved) are just bad. I get you want the actors & they are very enthusiastic to return but it would have been amazing for me to see them in the big multiversal movies they announced, but the fact of the matter is this with No way home & Multiverse of Madness have blown the load early there isn't that much of a surprise for those movies regardless of RDJ returning as a version of Dr. Doom the fact is they have already given the surprises audiences & fanboys expect early unless those big movies have cameos from beyond the grave I don't see them having that big of an impact.
Saddest thing, is I think this becomes the inevitable thing to all IPs. In some bizarro (ha) universe we'd be talking about fatigue post that great Crisis on Infinite Earths movie and dang has the DCCU fallen off ever since Supergirl died, etc.
Ha! Fair. But I don’t know that it’s quite a shared universe so much as two intertwined franchises. Whereas “The Conjuring” is the main body, coupled with “The Nun”, “Annabelle” and “Llorona” franchises.
@@Darren_Mooney true, the Conjuring is huge, and the Monsterverse is still in its infancy. but with 5 movies and 2 tv shows, it's going pretty strong and not showing signs of stopping any time soon. plus it's good, which, although an afterthought, is worth mentioning
Before D&W came out I re-watched both Deadpool movies (twice). Saw D&W and said ...well shit I rewatched less than half of the references here. I had never seen the Wolverine specific movies because of that crap/corny period after the first two X-Men films. So I sailed the high seas and watched X-Men Origins: Wolverine (2009), The Wolverine (2013) and Logan (2017). Man, the 2009 one had that corny extra-suspension-of-disbelief but gave a lot of context for D&W. Logan was actually pretty good and I feel bad for writing it off. I'm not invested enough into this universe to watch the Blade films or F4. Now I'll go back and see D&W a second time and see what my second take is. Because of Deadpool's 4th wall breaking/silly exposition style I felt I had enough context to know what was going on even if the specific references went over my head. It really was half a deadpool film and half a 20th century fox cultural fracking experience.
I'm curious if James Gunn over at WB will be able to do anything interesting with his new DC verse given the ability to analyze all this or if super heroes will continue to feel like content slop.
So what did Whedon did to Trachtenberg? Because all the other stories are about he is being a horrible toxic bully, but this one sounds very different, that no one elaborated but all the media put it in titles suggesting much much worst things. Just like here, paired with such allegations against someone else.
So many comments, so little time to read: has anyone mentioned "woke Disney's" movie "Poor Things" yet? Disney's acquisition of Fox is doing better doing its own thing than actively having the rights to the Fantastic Four (of which they only want the villains, let's be honest) or X-Men (though I loved X-Men '97, as someone who never finished the cartoon). And you were right: this movie demolished the box office. And what's worse: you can't have Deadpool quipping with the Avengers, he has to be on his own, otherwise it won't work. Did I mention Emma Stone won an Oscar? Put her character in an X-Men film with a super wide lens.
At the end of Deadpool Wolverine I couldn’t help but think how these super hero movies have contributed to sucking the money out of possible new and creative movies. Disney is a parasite, it will kill its host even as a last ditch effort to survive
Great piece, and I have seen this sentiment in a few other corners. It's easy to decry that the death of something is somewhere but I think the numbers here is where we see it. If Disney doesn't have something to milk, it will die. Does that mean one day it might become a creative force? Hard to say, but it also speaks volumes to why many people aren't even in that market anymore and other forms of media have gained in popularity. For people who don't have nostalgia of these specific things, it's hard to convince them they ought to go watch something and I feel like the most obvious outcome here is that people are going to start making things outside of the established industry. I've heard that Texas has started becoming a popular place to make movies for the same reason LA was: to get away from the establishment. Originally it was patents owned by Eddison, now it's entertainment monopolies in LA.
This is how monopolies work. As happy as I am about the X-Men finally being able to join the MCU, capitalism is sure to leave a bitter aftertaste in due time if Disney doesn't start taking chances.
Ah, the “Nomadland” argument. Which requires a bit more space than we had in the video. But it was bought by Fox, not by Disney. (Interestingly - just under the wire. It was bought in February 2019, with the Disney deal closing in March 2019.)
I’m glad you enjoyed it. As pointed out, the video avoids talking about the quality of the film, because I had yet to see the movie when I recorded the voiceover. (I saw it after, but didn’t want you to re-dub the coverage, as it would be a distraction, and likely just lead to arguments in the comments over things that the video isn’t really about.)
@@Darren_MooneyIt’s also not as if the pessimism was unwarranted. The MCU has been stale for a few years now, and I wouldn’t expect “omg superhero said swear word #3” to correct it.
D&W was decently fun for me, but did little to give me hope for the future of the MCU. And the news that they're recasting RDJ as Doom didn't help either. Such a sad and rather obvious move to play on people's nostalgia for 2008-2012 MCU. And it's going to completely overshadow anyone else cast in that upcoming Fantastic 4 film too.
While I love Deadpool and was entertained by DP3, this was just the usual Disney B.S. where the main character is just the M.C. Auditioning other characters for their potential spinoffs of movies and shows. This was even worse as it was just basically advertising that all of the FOX movies are now owned by Disney. It’s all just B.S cross promotion. Now if you’ll excuse me, I have a bunch of Marvel movies (licensed by Fox) to watch on my DisneyTV+ subscription. Damn it… the formula works…..
I would of been interested in discussing how deadpool 3 was so interested in celebrating the fox movies. There is a lot to discuss and talk about there. Disney being Disney is basicly a truism these days.
Well, let's not ignore the fact that a big part of why Fox's movies fail was directly because of Disney sinking the brand recognition of IPs like X-Men by canceling or tanking their comics, pulling all their merch like toys, and removing them from video games across the years that Fox had the movie rights.
To add to this point of Disney/Marvel being clueless & just using nostalgia bait who are the main protagonists of this saga? Yeah Infinity saga has it's problems but it was clear that the main standout protagonists in the ensemble of that Saga were Cap & Tony. Who are the main protagonists of this saga that's 2/3 deep in a grand story that is at best confusing & at worst a tonal Trainwreck. I liked the cameos of DP3 but again as I wrote before why have these cameos in a movie before your big cameo blockbuster movies with your now returning actor & directors? This is short term profit for a long term problem thats part of a larger long term problem.
I knew it. A movie that has some of the same flaws as other MCU films will be heralded as "finally a good MCU movie" simply because it has Deadpool + nostalgia. Plot holes like Eternals (X-men are 616 apparently so where were they during Thanos? People criticize Eternals for it but will completely ignore the same plot hole in Deadpool even though it actually is explained and makes sense in Eternals but not here.) Sure guys, this movie is great, I love it, but acting like THIS one has "good writing" and all the other recent movies didn't, is a braindead take.
You can dress up a corpse but it's still dead. MCU died with endgame, they don't have a plan equal to that of the the first one and until that happens their universe is dead.
The problem is also they dived head deep into politics and THE MESSAGE! Every old character must be replaced with their new diverse female replacement. Even the actors accidentally said this was the MSheU as it had been both an insult and statement claiming this was no longer the MCU. They could have easily (and what most people expected) was for Secret Invasion to be the next step. They had hinted it with Winter Soldier with the 'other captain America' having been fought when real cap was frozen in ice. They had Spider-Man's foe the chameleon in Far From Home. Even a build up with the heroes having to fight their legacy characters. (Easy way to both have their replacements beat the originals and also not have them fight the originals since these are imposters.) Yet they wasted that on a TV show... And had that linked to a movie forgetting that Earth became xenophobic after the Skrull tried to take over and then dumped a ton of them over a known alien city that Earth was sending the military to kick off their planet. They can't even keep track of what they are currently doing.
@@li-limandragon9287 I consider the larger story that connected the films the MCU they said themselves that X-Men 97 isn't part of any greater narrative I still think they can make good standalone Shows and Films but it's clear they're grasping when it comes to a multi film story.
Disney has the money to fund greatness, but still choose to churn out creatively bankrupt sanitised slop because they think that makes more money. In practice, that's not actually true, but they've just gotten so used to selling quantity over quality these past 20 years... *_It's a real shame._*
The MCU is not saved. The only thing that can do that is a full reboot with new people on and off the screen. The term "Marvel Zombie" has never been more apt.
Nah, a reboot is more just creatively bankrupt and would ruin the goodwill started with Iron Man. Fox tried to reboot their universe and just made it worse.
People are fickle, fans are now treating the Fox films like gems even though First Class and Logan are really the only ones that that do any kind of justice to the comics.
7:00, That seems like such a bad take. In no way has Star Wars been milked for all possible value. At best they milked it for the blank name value leaving the rest of it's value almost entirely untouched. Also the issue isn't entirely that they are going to the same franchises and characters over and over again, it's that they have noticeably lowered their standards and the quality of their works notably the writing of those works. I think the idea that any work set in the same universe or franchise necessarily fatigues the audience is laughable. Sure there can be some saturation issues but one of the real fundamentals is the overall quality of the work. Even works that follow the same characters have gone on for years continuously, staying popular and famous because the writers of those works are skilled.
I hope not, tbh. If you're still invested, you don't want it to go away; fair. But the monolithic nature of it crowds out the new, interesting, and novel. I've been rooting for Disney to go belly-up for a while as both a major contributor to this state of affairs and a singularly huge expression of it. That's really more the fault of Disney, I suppose, but that's a bigger issue.
Probably not, the RDJ casting is a bad sign they can't move.on and the multiple flops they've had over less than 2 years have been a bit damaging to the perception of the marvel brand
@@MutleeIsTheAntiGodIn absolute fairness, RDJ Doom was a safer bet than dumping Doctor Doom (a scientist wizard leader of entire country who’s had decades of training and mass resources) on a new actor. You only have to look at how Fox struggled with Doom to see how hard it is to get him right. RDJ already has goodwill and can easily slip into the role. Plus it’s clear he’s not going to be the definitive Doom.
the only way for disney to save the MCU is for the next avengers movies to be actually good too bad that well is already poisoned by a lack of good movies and characters leading up to em
Deadpool and Wolverine was 45 minutes too long, and its obvious where they could have trimmed it all down and made it a better film, but didn't. That aside, Disney is the Google of entertainment. It's where good ideas and IPs go to die. Being bought by Disney is a sign that you're relevance in the world is being brought to an end. They don't respect their own IP, why would they respect yours? They're hoarders, and nothing they make these days sparks joy. They are fast becoming like the Hallmark channel, needing to run Christmas in July because they don't have enough substance to do anything else. The House of Mouse has fallen far, and the more the suppress the creative sphere, the less they're going to have. I found a dead spider the other day and it was more entertaining to watch than the last ten Star Wars properties that Disney has $%^@ out in the last year.
The problem is simple... They are trying to force us to like something nobody wants. They were more focused on dismantling things to show that 'they were right' rather than producing good content. A lot of their attempt to copy what came before... Is doubling down on the mistakes rather than the success. It is why when the reveal that we are getting the actor for Tony Stark play the role of Doctor Doom... Everyone on the internet immediately assumed this was going to be an alternate universe Tony Stark rather than a Victor Von Doom... And that his role is to get beaten by the Didn't Earn It replacement Avengers so that they can beat and insult what was the face of the MCU. It is why people are expecting them to double down on the FLAWS of the Deadpool movie rather than copying what it did right.
Hot Take: the MCU didn't need saving. Hit a bit of a rough patch with a bunch of non-movie related issues. Covid, actor death, actor controversy, covid, actors strike, new boss, attempted corporate take over, universally poor streaming strategy across the board for all the studios, etc etc. Quality was still mostly consistant. Ultimately was a 95% chance it was going to be just fine. Just nerds on the internet wanted something to rage against the biggest most popular thing not doing exactly what they wanted.
@@yourlocalhuman3526You might want to try specifying what you mean by "bad writing," because otherwise, you sound like one of the things Yahtzee called out in his Semi-Ramblomatic about the VGA.
@@DavidRichardson153 ain't no way for me to accurately answer that but what I can say is that often times I would see characters making completely illogical decisions which would lead to some catastrophic consequence that would have easily been preventable. This happens in most media that I watch but in superhero movies I see it happening as often as I see my Dad looking at me in disappointment. That and the horrible dialogue written to god knows what target audience. How many more years till they start referencing things like "cap" or "it's giving" etc. Maybe they even have already but I quit watching most superhero stuff a while back. A lot of my friends would here me point stuff like this out and say "you're never happy" but is it really wrong to notice and point out a degradation in quality of something that used to be much better? Ignorance is bliss I guess and I'm just too aware of things that I see and hear compared to most.
@@yourlocalhuman3526”characters making completely illogical decisions” that’s comic books man. If anything the Marvel movie characters are smarter because they don’t try and kill each other at the drop of a hat.
I fucking hate the yellow costume, and hate it more when people cheer about it, sure they use Deadpool to put a ironic spin of it, like they aren't taking this seriously, but is a cynical nostalgia bullshit, Disney is stuck in the fucking past, instead of doing something new.
Disney are incapable of producing anything good. The MCU is terrible, Star Wars is terrible currently, their television series' are terrible, Pixar have been terrible lately, and even their own animated films have been terrible. They need a change of leadership and direction, or they will become irrelevant.
I hope they fail, tbh. I've been done with them since I was... 14? idk. I still get cult vibes sometimes, and I think their prominence is a contributor to the pg-13-ization of culture as a whole, creating fertile ground for a social backslide into ignorant conservative moralistic delusion. Also, I'm now convinced Star Wars was only ever good by accident and/or when the influence of Lucas was limited or constrained. While Disney's handling of the property was uniquely terrible, the trend line has always pointed down over all (or at least since an ewok appeared on screen), just with varying speed and the occasional bump from creators doing something interesting with the concept. Doesn't necessarily have to be that way, of course, and I saw Episode 1 too many times in the theater to deny there's a good core to it, but given the vagueness present in the first film, every subsequent piece of media has had enough freedom (and so few constraints) in how it elaborates on and expands the universe that the foot has been shot so many times with varying degrees of severity that it's really just a bloody stump. Andor was pretty good, tho.
I would argue we just need more good movies, in whatever form they take. And that requires innovation, which is not where Disney's strengths (or, to be fair, their interests) lie.
Disney either restricts movie directors, and writers like Kathleen kennedy does or hires people based upon political affiliation, or an affirmative action quota. This places very untalented people in the roles of making movies. The goal isn't to make an entertaining movies anymore, it's to push a political agenda. This is fine, but they have to make good movies, this means they got to be well written, well directed, and show that the creators actually have a passion for the material. This hasn't been the case. You can't make movies and shows that crap on long term fans favorite characters. The whole of the new deadpool movie was a criticism of modern Hollywood- Killing the anchor character ended their universe. Hollywood can't insult and attack fans either which they have been doing. Deadpool seemed rushed, but cares about it's fans, whereas most of current hollywood doesn't even care about making decent movies anymore. When you aren't part of their political cult, you see these things very clearly. That's the reason I think hollywood lashes out at fans, how do cults keep their member's in line?
99% chance Disney fails to handle X-Men properly. Not because Disney sucks ( oh, they do ) but because they will either make the mistake of making a crowd pleaser version, which will ignore the 50+ years of comics ( 60 but it had a long hiatus in the late 60’s early 70’s ). Or, they will choose the wrong X-Men era to focus on and this will alienate people who do not know anything about the X-Men that wasn’t in the pedo verse or a cartoon. Also instead of casting actors and actresses who make sense for the characters, they will hire “stars” who do not fit ( sorry Halle ) They should look to Guardians of the Galaxy which took obscure characters and proved you do not need to focus on the trendy heroes. Sadly the best era was already ruined by the last few movies. Fox ruining the Dark Phoenix saga by smooshing it into a single terrible movie is just sad.
@@li-limandragon9287 oh I know, but have you watched Disney stuff? Yikes. For general movie goers, cool. For people who have comic knowledge.. lots of bizarre choices.
This is the most polite, in-depth way of calling a studio creatively bankrupt I've ever seen.
To be fair. We do try to avoid being "shouty, shouty" on here. I think it works.
It is. :/
I think that a big part of what made the early Marvel movies memorable is the fact that they were really a variety of subgenres. Thor was science fantasy, Captain America was a WW2 movie, Ironman was modern day science fiction. When you put them all together in the Avengers, they all feel so wildly different. The reason Winter Soldier is remembered so fondly is because it was a spy thriller. Ant-Man was a heist movie. Civil War's core plot was a character drama between two characters we already cared about, who already felt important.
But then the identities of the movies were all thrown into a blender and what came out was an Action Comedy smoothie. Nothing feels different from movie to movie now. Ant-man 3 was probably the worst of them, because it undermined the individuality of Ant-man by taking him out of the normal world full of normal objects that gave his size-shifting a sense of scale. Each installment is just a Marvel film. And I think Deadpool & Wolverine is probably the peak of what an Action Comedy can be, because it's free to crank up the blood of the action and to destroy the boundaries of the comedy thanks to the R rating.
Of course, the more modern problem is that they're trying to tie-in the streaming shows as well. I've yet to see a made for streaming show that I loved. Most of them set up the scenario, run pointless sidequests for more than half the season, and then conclude in an unsatisfying way because there has to be another season and a few spinoffs and more, more, more. Movies and shows should stand on their own, and not require a shared universe to have value. A shared universe should not be homework and Marvel used to know that.
So much this. Recent Marvel movies felt like they received a checklist they had to work from. While the new Deadpool is also an action comedy, it very much does its own thing and is so much better for it.
Eh, not really. The movies were always your basic superhero fare, just with a light sheen of other dramas. When you actually apply the spy and heist conventions to Winter Soldier or Ant Man they fall drastically short.
Maybe that's why I'm still holding out some cautious hope for F4 and Blade. I want to like those characters and given that they have to be introduced before mashing them into every other character, perhaps if we're lucky those films threaten to have a sense of new identity to call their own with their own genre homages.
@@ashuebot-tabi4449 Even if that's true, there is a big difference between plain oatmeal and oatmeal with sugar and fruit, or with honey, or with cinnamon.
@@LanceThumping or cottage cheese
It's bitterly ironic that Disney has to rely on Fox when their own films began to dive in quality. The Simpsons is still somehow relevant even under the mascot of an evil corporation. their Alien, Predator and Planet of the Apes films have been well-received and did decent numbers; Avatar continues to do massively at the box office (far greater than a majority of Disney's own films); Fox Searchlight has been their one film division that's been giving them Oscar gold; FX is pulling in all of the prestige TV accolades; and now we have Marvel pulling a No Way Home but for Fox's X-Men franchise, a franchise that Disney taught fans to shun because they weren't part of the MCU despite their influence to the superhero genre. Even X-Men 97 is still technically based on a Fox Kids property.
Disney bought out Fox out of hubris because of Iger's desire to make Disney+ massive enough to beat Netflix (when the Murdochs were willing to sell) with the intention of slowly killing it and picking its corpse of what they wanted the most (i.e. Fox's IP), but when their own system began to falter, they were forced to rely on them just to maintain a semblance of quality. I don't see this changing any time soon judging from the chaos ensuing from Disney's main film divisions.
Even still then, you are basically giving money to a gigantic corporate monolith that seeked (and still seeks) to consume and influence all entertainment and them buying Fox was a part of that. So you're still supporting Disney no matter what if it's Disney or Fox.
Yep. And Searchlight is the only wing of the company doing genuinely interesting things. (“Rosaline” and “No One Will Save You” are among the best Disney movies of the past few years.)
"Playing on Nostalgia" is a very good term to use for what Disney is doing to make profits these days. For 'Deadpool and Wolverine' most of the time that I wasn't laughing was spent saying "I remember that character from this movie/series' or 'where do I remember that character from'.
Effectively, Disney is the EA of film companies.
What of the 20+ live action feature films in the marvel universe before Disney ever bought Disney? I like the Blade movies, but there's some not great stuff in there... And Lucas Art? Star Wars was pretty dead by the time Disney bought it... At the time it was the animated The Clone Wars series that was the only thing Star Wars on TV and on the computer you were stuck with the Star Wars: The Old Republic MMO... There was a ton of SW computer games announced before the Lucas Art buyout, that looked cool in the trailers, but they were only trailers and no actual gameplay. So while it was a huge shame that the closed LA and cancelled all those cool looking games/trailers (like 1313), whether those would have been actually any good when released is an interesting question.
You can say a LOT about Disney, but they did reinvigorate old IPs that at the time were already dying... That they can't keep going for 10-15+ years at that same speed/success isn't all that strange/surprising. If you have good weather, you make use of it for as long as possible, because tomorrow the weather might change. It's not a question IF the weather will change, but when. And the weather has changed for not just Disney/Marvel/Star Wars, it has for many other IPs and companies. Some for the better and some for the worse.
Let's not forget that in 1999 the old school SW fans absolutely hated on Episode #1, 16 years after Episode #6 came out. Now many old school fans are hating on Episode #7-#9 10 years after Episode #3 came out. While I liked the original 3 movies, I didn't dislike the prequels, I haven't been able to finish Episode #7 though... Why is that? When each batch of SW movies were made, they were aimed at the audience of that time and while some media keep being popular, that's certainly not the case for everything. A current 10 year old doesn't get into SW due to the original 3 movies, probably because of current animation shows, recent/current computer games or current toys (like Lego Star Wars). In the same way, while we old farts pretty much detest the sequel movies, a friends kids really like them... Maybe some people are just old and don't realize it yet. Old people tend to hate the new stuff... Things like Rock & Roll... ;)
I don't really care if the biggest company on the planet gets my money or a slightly less big company gets my money. If they make something I want, chances are good that I'll pay for it. And we as people don't just watch/consume 'quality', we want to be entertained and sometimes it's just something that is just fun to watch, light entertainment that many would just call bad. The original Dune movie has a special place in my heart for example, we used to call that a 'cult following'... That was not bad, it just was...
For-profit companies exist to make money for their owners, that is their sole purpose. Those that don't we call non-profits. And not every company might be as blatant about it as Disney, but they are ALL in it for the money. This is our economic and political system, it's not perfect, but it works. People have tried other systems, they failed, just ask the USSR... Am I happy about it? Hell no! But it's the reality of the matter. If you think you can avoid the system (while posting on TH-cam for &$^% sake!), I think you are very misguided.
As for the Cargo Cult... In Tech we have things like clean room design and reverse engineering, where we look at the output and try to understand something without pulling it apart and copying it wholesale. At what point is a game a clean room design vs. a Cargo Cult? And I'm also wondering if trying to spend the time/resources on actually analyzing/researching/understanding on why XYZ works is from a corporate perspective wasted resources. Make a game while doing this, use the shotgun approach. We can all hate on EA, but they have captured a huge market share with just yearly rehashes. I'm not the target audience, but there are many that are. Many of the games I play are not for that EA audience. Just like I detest Big Brother, there is no denying that there is a huge fanbase and has made oodles of money. Just because I don't like it doesn't mean it shouldn't exist...
@@Cergorach This defeatism is deeply saddening. "Who cares if the industry consolidates? We still get our content! Only Disney does it right!"
@@joshuamarks4425 Wow... I know reading is hard, but maybe practice more? ;)
Having avoided all the trailers, I did not expect that gut punch that was the credits.
A good chunk of those movies are messy but damn did they at least try something.
I would've liked the actor who played Ray Donovan back as sabertooth. But I get what they were aiming for.
Also, Legion, that's a name I haven't heard in a long time. My mother loved the hell out of that show.
Love “Legion.”
Can’t believe Legion got a mention, that never happens
“Legion” rules.
I had completely forgot it existed, I never got around to watching it
@@El-Burrito I enjoyed it. Rewatched it recently, still enjoyed it.
@@El-Burrito It’s really good. Bizarre show, but if it grabs you there’s really nothing else like it
Legion was fucking awesome! better than American Gods. dunno why i always pair these two up in me head
Disney\Marvel has done one unique thing recently and that was Werewolf by Night. That short, one-shot story was so unique and effective with the material. It also didn't really connect to the overall MCU storyline. The use of Black and White film heavily influenced by the old Universal Monster films was such a breath of fresh air. Great score too.
I can see that, but I would also argue that it's very obvious that the show was shot for the 4:3 aspect ratio, but decided late in the game that they wouldn't use it. Which is a shame, because it creates a lot of dead space in the frame.
No offense, but I don't credit Disney with the success of the MCU. That honor goes squarely on the shoulders of Marvel, in my humble opinion.
Disney didn't launch an expansive shared universe they bought one - the Netflix Daredevil etc shows I'm pretty sure started production prior to Disney's acquisition and the MCU was a shared universe even before that.
@@sottonk that's what I am saying. The MCU started with Iron Man. Disney had nothing to do with it
And just to prove Darren's point, Disney bring back RDJ and the Russos for more Avengers movies.
Yep. This was written and edited before that announcement, but let’s just say that I feel somewhat vindicated.
But wouldn't it also be fair to say that RDJ and the Russos failed to find success outside of the MCU and are coming back for their own glory and safety?
RDJ - Dolittle
Russos - Cherry, The Grey Man, & Citadel
@@hallopino Oh, it’s mutually beneficial. Certainly for the Russos, although they could never work another day and retire multi-, multi-, multi-millionaires.
But Downey also must won an Oscar, is about to win an Emmy, is being paid well over $80m and getting - and I quote - “a whole trailer encampment.”
@@Darren_Mooney Yeah, bit of a stretch for RDJ, but he did fail at trying to transfer the Stark star power into being a leading man, and is just a very very good supporting actor in other projects.
They're going to have to figure out an interesting way to play it, because I suspect most people who've lost interest in the MCU aren't going to watch all the intermediate movies to catch up on the lore before watching the new stuff with RDJ.
The ironic thing about Disney mining IP for their parks is that even that is lacking in New ideas. To be honest, I haven't seen them do anything truly interesting in their parks since Pandora. Not to mention going to a Disney park has gotten outrageously expensive.
But, I think you have gotten to the heart of why Disney owning everything is bad news in general.
Yep. Jenny Nicholson's video on the Star Wars hotel was great for examining that rot.
@@Darren_Mooney The rot has been there for a while, but Jenny's video pops the balloon that Disney is interested in doing innovation in the parks. Unfortunately, the modern CEO tendency isn't going to reverse it.
@@Darren_Mooney Loved that video. It was genuinely painful to see the staff, or should I say "cast", of the hotel trying their best when the overall experience was so pathetic.
Other than literally mickey mouse and friends I cant tell any IP disney came up with originally. Most of the fairy tales are a basterdization of existing ones while others are from studios they bought.
Disney is the EA of movies
I feel bad for kids these days. They hardly get anything of their own, they just get rehashed crap from my childhood.
That Vin Diesel reel is missing the Riddick C U and I take that personally. :D
l thought Deadpool+Wolverine was quite a strategic move on a meta level,, it's no secret that the mcu feels unfocused over the course of the past several years, and this was a blockbuster movie a lot of people genuinely wanted to see that was able to sympathise with how the audience feels while also connecting/refocussing some of the loose strands. It gave me the sense that they might finally get back on track, and seeing how next year they wanna release 4 major movies and with the announcements made at comic con last weekend it feels as if they've finally decided to lock onto an long-term plan, which is something they very much needed.
This movie might not "save" the mcu on its own, but it might be a stepping stone to go in a good direction again, if they decide on a long-term plan and stick to it like in the first few phases of the mcu
I'm pretty sure that Deadpool & Wolverine "saving the MCU" is a narrative that Disney is hoping everyone buys into.
@@whodatboi2567Everyone buying into it only sustains them for a little bit longer. I'm interested in what they'll come up with for the long term
@@RillianGrant I suspect they are planning on making pivots and Deadpool & Wolverine gives them an opportunity for the pivot to be a natural move.
disney is where creativity goes to die.
and it is always nice to see someone else sharing the data that: The Rat makes money from parks and toys. everything else is in service of that.
Hey, we do our work here.
just annoying that it took all that corporate BS in order for some publisher to finally greenlight a proper deadpool wolverine movie. as a comic nerd, this has been absolutely what I wanted for years. The fact they actually made it, little worrying. as that was always something that was never feasible for the industry.
still gonna take my win and enjoy the movie though. Now make a new blade movie.
I just wish it had been to the standard of their best comic book adventures, like Remender and company's "Uncanny X-Force."
There really are competing emotions in me i know i will have a good time with the deadpool movie coming out, but at the same time i have a big super hero fatigue in me. We will have to see which side wins when it comes to sweden.
I sincerely hope you enjoy.
It was not for me, but such is life. (And I liked the first two “Deadpool” movies and loved “Logan.”)
Depends on who’s more fatigued. You or the movies.
It came to Sweden last week :P I also have the fatigue and haven't seen a Marvel movie in 2 years. The new Deadpool felt like a fresh breeze, and a love letter to the "classic" Marvel movies. It's well worth it imo.
1:31 that’s Canada’s ass
There’s a joke in there about needing a Mountie, but I can’t make it connect.
*Australia's ass.
My only real criticism about this video is that it sort of underemphasizes how dependent/successful Disney is on its theme parks. It was a core part of the business since Walt lead the company, not a recent phenomena at the company to majorly invest in the parks. Its the reason why Disney was one of the first to reopen during covid, inspite it being too soon, because covid was an existential threat to the company.
Otherwise, pretty good, well laid out essay.
Having just seen it the other day, they had way better cameos, but all of them are spoilers from the plot, which is why they aren't in the marketing. and I am so glad it wasn't spoiled for me.
Disney did actually distribute (in the US) a couple of best picture winers when they owned miramax.
Fair point, but that was a studio run independently within Disney. It’s worth bringing up, I think, just as - say - Disney inheriting a win with “Nomadland”, but getting into that level of nitty-gritty would have derailed the video.
But absolutely a valid point to raise and discuss in the comments.
The only one who benefits from a monopoly, is the monopolizers
Yep.
After a while, I’ll bet even that’s debatable
@@IAmTheAce5 meaning what, exactly?
3:31 I would legit love to see a Rubik's Cube Cinematic Universe
Something went really wrong when nerds like me started not giving a shit about Star Wars and super heroes, but the normies did. And I still can't pinpoint exactly when and how it happened...
dont care about marvel, just here for the fine writing and overall production
Cheers!
The shade thrown at Diesel in that gag deserves only the best, "Oh my..." in a proper Takei. 🙂
Another fantastic video from Darren. Love your work!
Thank you! Really appreciate it!
Pretty sure when Disney bought Fox that wasn’t the only reason and the MCU wasn’t in trouble when they bought them either
Oh, never said it was the reason. But it was a huge part of the discourse.
I am tired of superheroes but Huge Jacked Man's Wolverine has such a legacy and God's Perfect Idiot's Deadpool was such a breath of fresh air I couldn't not like this film.
9:27 Jack put you up to this, didn’t he.
It’s a great line!
But with it doing shows like Loki and legion it does shows there might be some life in this dead pool. Even if by this whole thing it is very little. Thanks for the video Daren.
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed!
I think the "hate" for Fox's Marvel movies is overblown and seldom ever applied to the actors. People are happy to see former Marvel actors return because they killed it in their respective roles. As for the movies, Fox gave us X-2, First Class, Days of Future Past, Logan and Blade, so it wasn't all bad.
“Blade” was actually New Line, I think.
You're right, lemme take that off the list.
@@thez28camaromanNo the hate is there, if you love characters such as Rogue, Cyclops, Storm, Jubilee or literally anyone else who isn’t Wolvie, Chuck or Magnetic Man. Those movies are like seeing Origins Deadpool again and again.
Yes I know the 2000s were a different time, but those characters were still relevant, making their treatment terrible.
X-Men 97 is so good because it turns the idea of Wolverine being the most important character on its head.
Holy fuck do I dig a good Multiplicity reference! “I like pizza!”
I feel like the Legendary Monsterverse's success doesn't get enough credit
I just yesterday got a chance to finally watch No Way Home. I feel like it may have hit differently without the intended zeitgeist. It also didn't help that I've seen the Toby Maguire movies but not the Andrew Garfield ones.
I think that movie assumed most people didn't, or dislked the ones with Garfield. As they basically used that movie to put lot more character into him, making him less "broody" as most felt he was.
There's a great difference between a sense of levity, and a sense of fun. Disney films are usually light enough to avoid offending these days (never forget the woods escape during snow white),but a sense of boundless joy and/or trying everything you can do is usually missing.
X-men, and X2 are both great. Shame about the third one though.
"X2" is wonderful. One of the best superhero movies ever made.
@@Darren_MooneyShame about Rogue and Cyclops though. 2000s nostalgia aside it was disrespectful to the actors and characters.
fantastic insight as always, well done, and thanks!
How long until we have xmen vs sith? Love the video.
Thank you!
I'll try to be coy in terms of direct spoilers (though if you haven't seen Deadpool & Wolverine yet, I wouldn't read this to be safe), but I got more out of the movie than I thought I would.
I was apprehensive about them bringing back Hugh Jackman because, well, Logan ended on such a high note that I felt it would cheapen it. Especially since, yeah, Disney likely wanted to mine as much nostalgia as humanly possible, and them buying Wolverine outta retirement (so to speak) feels icky.
On the other hand, both of these actors are among the most well-casted superheroes in movie history, and it's a shame they never had a proper movie together, so that makes it easier to digest. It's like the filmmakers wanted to go back in time and give us the payoff that never was. And that ties into all of the cameos too. I certainly assumed Deadpool being in the MCU would mean a lot of pointless cameos from whoever's big at the moment, whether it made sense or not. But instead, the cameos are reserved for actors/characters who never really got their dues (for one reason or another), be it because the franchise ended, the movies were never that good to begin with, or never existed.
It was quite touching during the credits to see a montage of behind the scenes clips from the earlier Fox X-Men movies (the good, and bad). Whatever was going on behind the scenes with executives and directors, there was a sense that they cared about what they were doing, and it's nice to see them get one last hurrah.
Granted, it's still weird because it plays almost like an "in memorium" section for a studio that was consumed by Disney. It's almost like having a speaker at a funeral give a touching eulogy to the person they just murdered.
Yep. Scott Mendelson described it as akin to watching a serial killer nostalgically eulogise their victims. It’s… very strange.
@@Darren_Mooney Yeah... I don't know how to feel about it. The movie does plenty of ripping on the MCU and Disney, but ultimately, it still IS an MCU Disney movie, so it does come off as a bit hypocritical.
Then again... what else could the filmmakers really do? I'm reminded of "The Good Place", and the revelation that the modern world has gotten so complex and interwoven that basically every good act has bad consequences in some way. And you can't make a big movie like this in the modern movie system without some degree of compromise.
For me, I guess I go with whether what came off on the screen felt inspired or tired. And I do feel like, even though the movie isn't perfect (I could have used more time in Deadpool and Wolverine's own worlds respectively), that everyone is bringing their A-game, and it shows.
I remember overhearing a conversation between a couple gangster mimes, years ago. This was in a video game that will likely never be remade or get a sequel because of copyright issues, which is a genuine tragedy, but I digress.
The crux of the gangster mimes' conversation was that being impressive leaves one's work vulnerable to being displaced by the next work that just has more of the thing you brought to the table, but being interesting is memorable and has real staying power.
Should Disney be taking advice from fictional killer mimes? I don't know.
I guess that it is less a Disney problem then a Bob Iger problem, he is riskphobic unlike Eisner which is why the product of the non-Fox parts of Disney end up as chewed. Just to show how bad Iger is we see FX going with a Shogun season 2 instead of Tai-Pan, it is probably an Iger move because of what happened to Marvel and we are talking about the guy who killed Twin Peaks.
Yep. But the problem is that Iger is building a legacy in his own image. This is a guy who came back after getting out at the perfect time, because he was worried that Chapek was ignoring him. I think Iger's remodelled the company in his own image.
Gutted that this movie made so much money and Furiosa bombed, like, obviously Deadpool was going to make more money, but Furiosa deserved better.
Amen. But such is life.
A lot of reviewers have said the same thing as to why Furiosa failed: It was a prequel to a 9 year old very niche movie, one that didn't do that well in the box office to begin with, about a character that isn't the focus of the said niche franchise, played by a different actress, who we already know what is going to happen to her in the future. It was almost made to fail in the box office, because it was already cutting out half or more of it's very niche core audience already, and confused a lot of the public who didn't know what to expect from it... And thus it made just under half of what Fury Road did. The head math does kind of fit.
Critically, yes, it is brilliant, just like Fury Road. But it doesn't matter how good a movie is, if no one wants to go see it.
Went to see this earlier today, good film.
Legion is still the best X-Men adaptation. Disney never could've made that.
Yep. I agree with this.
Tbf nobody else could’ve made Legion, or at any other time. Like, I honestly can’t believe it exists, it’s kind of a miracle.
@@CaptainEffort Well, the guy who made it is making an “Alien” show. So I’m hopeful.
@@Darren_Mooney Noah Hawley is behind the Alien show? I can’t even begin to imagine that lol, but I’m way more excited now
@@CaptainEffort Starring Timothy Olyphant.
0:19 they going to make him do this till he’s 90😂😂😂😂
Didn't Batman The Dark Knight get a ton of nominations and win a couple of Awards too, years before the MCU money started flowing?
While I thought Deadpool & Wolverine is fine the amount of cameo Fanservice only added to this prevailing thought in my head that just keeps asking why do all of this Fanservice before your 2 big multiversal Fanservice movies? Like this still would be Fanservice with old X men characters but the fact they went out of their way to bring other older characters from good to frankly bad movies & treating them with reverence is very confusing like sorry I love the actors but the movies apart from 2 movies (spoiler vampires involved) are just bad. I get you want the actors & they are very enthusiastic to return but it would have been amazing for me to see them in the big multiversal movies they announced, but the fact of the matter is this with No way home & Multiverse of Madness have blown the load early there isn't that much of a surprise for those movies regardless of RDJ returning as a version of Dr. Doom the fact is they have already given the surprises audiences & fanboys expect early unless those big movies have cameos from beyond the grave I don't see them having that big of an impact.
Saddest thing, is I think this becomes the inevitable thing to all IPs. In some bizarro (ha) universe we'd be talking about fatigue post that great Crisis on Infinite Earths movie and dang has the DCCU fallen off ever since Supergirl died, etc.
The problem with Disney's movies (and TV shows) is that they haven't been putting in any effort whatsoever to create good, coherent scripts.
"The pool of quips has no more life in it. It is a dead pool" - some guy
hey, what about the MonsterVerse?!
Ha! Fair. But I don’t know that it’s quite a shared universe so much as two intertwined franchises.
Whereas “The Conjuring” is the main body, coupled with “The Nun”, “Annabelle” and “Llorona” franchises.
@@Darren_Mooney true, the Conjuring is huge, and the Monsterverse is still in its infancy. but with 5 movies and 2 tv shows, it's going pretty strong and not showing signs of stopping any time soon. plus it's good, which, although an afterthought, is worth mentioning
This explains that pervasive feeling I had while watching D&W. Like I was at a wake.
Before D&W came out I re-watched both Deadpool movies (twice). Saw D&W and said ...well shit I rewatched less than half of the references here. I had never seen the Wolverine specific movies because of that crap/corny period after the first two X-Men films. So I sailed the high seas and watched X-Men Origins: Wolverine (2009), The Wolverine (2013) and Logan (2017). Man, the 2009 one had that corny extra-suspension-of-disbelief but gave a lot of context for D&W. Logan was actually pretty good and I feel bad for writing it off. I'm not invested enough into this universe to watch the Blade films or F4. Now I'll go back and see D&W a second time and see what my second take is. Because of Deadpool's 4th wall breaking/silly exposition style I felt I had enough context to know what was going on even if the specific references went over my head. It really was half a deadpool film and half a 20th century fox cultural fracking experience.
I'm curious if James Gunn over at WB will be able to do anything interesting with his new DC verse given the ability to analyze all this or if super heroes will continue to feel like content slop.
To be fair, just based on his past films, I have much greater faith in the quality of Gunn’s work than Levy/Feige/the Russos/etc.
So what did Whedon did to Trachtenberg? Because all the other stories are about he is being a horrible toxic bully, but this one sounds very different, that no one elaborated but all the media put it in titles suggesting much much worst things. Just like here, paired with such allegations against someone else.
So many comments, so little time to read: has anyone mentioned "woke Disney's" movie "Poor Things" yet? Disney's acquisition of Fox is doing better doing its own thing than actively having the rights to the Fantastic Four (of which they only want the villains, let's be honest) or X-Men (though I loved X-Men '97, as someone who never finished the cartoon). And you were right: this movie demolished the box office. And what's worse: you can't have Deadpool quipping with the Avengers, he has to be on his own, otherwise it won't work. Did I mention Emma Stone won an Oscar? Put her character in an X-Men film with a super wide lens.
At the end of Deadpool Wolverine I couldn’t help but think how these super hero movies have contributed to sucking the money out of possible new and creative movies.
Disney is a parasite, it will kill its host even as a last ditch effort to survive
Great piece, and I have seen this sentiment in a few other corners. It's easy to decry that the death of something is somewhere but I think the numbers here is where we see it. If Disney doesn't have something to milk, it will die. Does that mean one day it might become a creative force? Hard to say, but it also speaks volumes to why many people aren't even in that market anymore and other forms of media have gained in popularity. For people who don't have nostalgia of these specific things, it's hard to convince them they ought to go watch something and I feel like the most obvious outcome here is that people are going to start making things outside of the established industry. I've heard that Texas has started becoming a popular place to make movies for the same reason LA was: to get away from the establishment. Originally it was patents owned by Eddison, now it's entertainment monopolies in LA.
This is how monopolies work. As happy as I am about the X-Men finally being able to join the MCU, capitalism is sure to leave a bitter aftertaste in due time if Disney doesn't start taking chances.
Yep. If those are the two options, it’s not really a choice. Let Spidey stay at Sony forever.
Disney have never won a Best Picture oscar?....does that not include Fox movies after the acquisition?
Ah, the “Nomadland” argument. Which requires a bit more space than we had in the video.
But it was bought by Fox, not by Disney. (Interestingly - just under the wire. It was bought in February 2019, with the Disney deal closing in March 2019.)
I'm more surprised Beauty and the Beast got forgotten, that was the one before the animated category jail iirc :)
@@essneyallen6777 It didn't win. We're talking about trophies.
@@Darren_Mooney ooohhh it was only nominated? I kind of mandela effected myself, I'm very sorry!
Deadpool vs Wolverine is Awesome. I mostly agree with the video except for its pessimism about Deadpool vs Wolverine
I’m glad you enjoyed it. As pointed out, the video avoids talking about the quality of the film, because I had yet to see the movie when I recorded the voiceover.
(I saw it after, but didn’t want you to re-dub the coverage, as it would be a distraction, and likely just lead to arguments in the comments over things that the video isn’t really about.)
@@Darren_MooneyIt’s also not as if the pessimism was unwarranted. The MCU has been stale for a few years now, and I wouldn’t expect “omg superhero said swear word #3” to correct it.
@@SexPanther42069To be fair, after seeing the film, I certainly wouldn’t argue I was unfair in giving voice to any skepticism about it.
@@Darren_Mooney yeah I understand it’s impossible to see the future. But the video overall is great 👍🏻
hope the new blade movie will be good!
Personally, I hope it will… exist?
D&W was decently fun for me, but did little to give me hope for the future of the MCU. And the news that they're recasting RDJ as Doom didn't help either. Such a sad and rather obvious move to play on people's nostalgia for 2008-2012 MCU. And it's going to completely overshadow anyone else cast in that upcoming Fantastic 4 film too.
I'm not sure I'd say this movie saved the MCU. One success doesn't erase past failures, they have to start an actual winning streak for that.
I only watched this because I didnt need to watch 12 other movies and 5 netflix series to get it
Fair enough, but it does assume you care about a host of pre-2008 superhero films.
I dont, I just wanted to watch a deadpool movie with no stakes, and no G humor or 8 Cameos
All the destruction and not even shareholder value to show for it...
While I love Deadpool and was entertained by DP3, this was just the usual Disney B.S. where the main character is just the M.C. Auditioning other characters for their potential spinoffs of movies and shows. This was even worse as it was just basically advertising that all of the FOX movies are now owned by Disney. It’s all just B.S cross promotion.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I have a bunch of Marvel movies (licensed by Fox) to watch on my DisneyTV+ subscription.
Damn it… the formula works…..
I would of been interested in discussing how deadpool 3 was so interested in celebrating the fox movies. There is a lot to discuss and talk about there. Disney being Disney is basicly a truism these days.
I think the video does a good job of explaining that; it celebrates them because there aren’t too many other sources of nostalgia to mine.
@@Darren_Mooney That is just the opening sentence to talking about it. Im saying I am interested in going deeper then a basic observation.
Well, let's not ignore the fact that a big part of why Fox's movies fail was directly because of Disney sinking the brand recognition of IPs like X-Men by canceling or tanking their comics, pulling all their merch like toys, and removing them from video games across the years that Fox had the movie rights.
Wait, it's not a sequel to the Dirty Harry movie?
Wait what? The MCU has been saved? 😂 Citation needed! But I like your optimism 😊
This movie was the X-men origins Wolverine I had always wanted
To add to this point of Disney/Marvel being clueless & just using nostalgia bait who are the main protagonists of this saga? Yeah Infinity saga has it's problems but it was clear that the main standout protagonists in the ensemble of that Saga were Cap & Tony. Who are the main protagonists of this saga that's 2/3 deep in a grand story that is at best confusing & at worst a tonal Trainwreck. I liked the cameos of DP3 but again as I wrote before why have these cameos in a movie before your big cameo blockbuster movies with your now returning actor & directors? This is short term profit for a long term problem thats part of a larger long term problem.
I knew it. A movie that has some of the same flaws as other MCU films will be heralded as "finally a good MCU movie" simply because it has Deadpool + nostalgia. Plot holes like Eternals (X-men are 616 apparently so where were they during Thanos? People criticize Eternals for it but will completely ignore the same plot hole in Deadpool even though it actually is explained and makes sense in Eternals but not here.) Sure guys, this movie is great, I love it, but acting like THIS one has "good writing" and all the other recent movies didn't, is a braindead take.
Why diden,t you mention The monsterverse
You can dress up a corpse but it's still dead. MCU died with endgame, they don't have a plan equal to that of the the first one and until that happens their universe is dead.
I think they had a plan, but the combination of COVID, Chadwick Boseman's untimely passing, and Jonathan Majors' legal troubles blew all that to hell.
@InMaTeoDeath
Nah a few dull films and badly made TV shows isn’t enough to kill it at this point. Especially when stuff like X-Men 97 can back it up.
The problem is also they dived head deep into politics and THE MESSAGE!
Every old character must be replaced with their new diverse female replacement.
Even the actors accidentally said this was the MSheU as it had been both an insult and statement claiming this was no longer the MCU.
They could have easily (and what most people expected) was for Secret Invasion to be the next step.
They had hinted it with Winter Soldier with the 'other captain America' having been fought when real cap was frozen in ice.
They had Spider-Man's foe the chameleon in Far From Home.
Even a build up with the heroes having to fight their legacy characters. (Easy way to both have their replacements beat the originals and also not have them fight the originals since these are imposters.)
Yet they wasted that on a TV show... And had that linked to a movie forgetting that Earth became xenophobic after the Skrull tried to take over and then dumped a ton of them over a known alien city that Earth was sending the military to kick off their planet.
They can't even keep track of what they are currently doing.
@@li-limandragon9287 I consider the larger story that connected the films the MCU they said themselves that X-Men 97 isn't part of any greater narrative I still think they can make good standalone Shows and Films but it's clear they're grasping when it comes to a multi film story.
@@InMaTeofDeathIt’s just about taking breaks and then coming back in when the iron is hot and fans are hungry.
Disney has the money to fund greatness, but still choose to churn out creatively bankrupt sanitised slop because they think that makes more money.
In practice, that's not actually true, but they've just gotten so used to selling quantity over quality these past 20 years... *_It's a real shame._*
The MCU is not saved. The only thing that can do that is a full reboot with new people on and off the screen. The term "Marvel Zombie" has never been more apt.
Nah, a reboot is more just creatively bankrupt and would ruin the goodwill started with Iron Man. Fox tried to reboot their universe and just made it worse.
Deadpool and Wolverine is a very fun movie 🤷♂️
I’m glad you had a good time with it! The video isn’t really arguing that it is or isn’t good. I’m upfront about that at the start.
@@Darren_Mooney I wrote the comment before watching - apologies 🥺
@@ACameronUK No worries!
It’s funny how many people who loved the 2008-2019 MCU also say Disney can’t make anything good.
People are fickle, fans are now treating the Fox films like gems even though First Class and Logan are really the only ones that that do any kind of justice to the comics.
7:00, That seems like such a bad take. In no way has Star Wars been milked for all possible value. At best they milked it for the blank name value leaving the rest of it's value almost entirely untouched.
Also the issue isn't entirely that they are going to the same franchises and characters over and over again, it's that they have noticeably lowered their standards and the quality of their works notably the writing of those works.
I think the idea that any work set in the same universe or franchise necessarily fatigues the audience is laughable. Sure there can be some saturation issues but one of the real fundamentals is the overall quality of the work.
Even works that follow the same characters have gone on for years continuously, staying popular and famous because the writers of those works are skilled.
There’s heaps of Legends stuff to adapt or draw influence from, they just don’t want have to pay writers to do it.
Dip our toes in the dead"pool", excellent writing. Cheers my dude!
🎞📽🎥
Is it saved though?
For this financial quarter, at least, and that’s enough for now.
I hope not, tbh. If you're still invested, you don't want it to go away; fair. But the monolithic nature of it crowds out the new, interesting, and novel. I've been rooting for Disney to go belly-up for a while as both a major contributor to this state of affairs and a singularly huge expression of it. That's really more the fault of Disney, I suppose, but that's a bigger issue.
Probably not, the RDJ casting is a bad sign they can't move.on and the multiple flops they've had over less than 2 years have been a bit damaging to the perception of the marvel brand
@@MutleeIsTheAntiGodIn absolute fairness, RDJ Doom was a safer bet than dumping Doctor Doom (a scientist wizard leader of entire country who’s had decades of training and mass resources) on a new actor. You only have to look at how Fox struggled with Doom to see how hard it is to get him right. RDJ already has goodwill and can easily slip into the role.
Plus it’s clear he’s not going to be the definitive Doom.
Tldr we really need the acolyte s2
the only way for disney to save the MCU is for the next avengers movies to be actually good
too bad that well is already poisoned by a lack of good movies and characters leading up to em
Deadpool and Wolverine was 45 minutes too long, and its obvious where they could have trimmed it all down and made it a better film, but didn't. That aside, Disney is the Google of entertainment. It's where good ideas and IPs go to die. Being bought by Disney is a sign that you're relevance in the world is being brought to an end. They don't respect their own IP, why would they respect yours? They're hoarders, and nothing they make these days sparks joy. They are fast becoming like the Hallmark channel, needing to run Christmas in July because they don't have enough substance to do anything else. The House of Mouse has fallen far, and the more the suppress the creative sphere, the less they're going to have. I found a dead spider the other day and it was more entertaining to watch than the last ten Star Wars properties that Disney has $%^@ out in the last year.
🥰😍🤩😘
The problem is simple... They are trying to force us to like something nobody wants.
They were more focused on dismantling things to show that 'they were right' rather than producing good content.
A lot of their attempt to copy what came before... Is doubling down on the mistakes rather than the success.
It is why when the reveal that we are getting the actor for Tony Stark play the role of Doctor Doom...
Everyone on the internet immediately assumed this was going to be an alternate universe Tony Stark rather than a Victor Von Doom... And that his role is to get beaten by the Didn't Earn It replacement Avengers so that they can beat and insult what was the face of the MCU.
It is why people are expecting them to double down on the FLAWS of the Deadpool movie rather than copying what it did right.
Hot Take: the MCU didn't need saving.
Hit a bit of a rough patch with a bunch of non-movie related issues. Covid, actor death, actor controversy, covid, actors strike, new boss, attempted corporate take over, universally poor streaming strategy across the board for all the studios, etc etc.
Quality was still mostly consistant.
Ultimately was a 95% chance it was going to be just fine.
Just nerds on the internet wanted something to rage against the biggest most popular thing not doing exactly what they wanted.
You forgot to mention terrible writing. Now I know multiple older marvel films have bad writing too but it became almost every single 1 post endgame
@@yourlocalhuman3526You might want to try specifying what you mean by "bad writing," because otherwise, you sound like one of the things Yahtzee called out in his Semi-Ramblomatic about the VGA.
@@DavidRichardson153 ain't no way for me to accurately answer that but what I can say is that often times I would see characters making completely illogical decisions which would lead to some catastrophic consequence that would have easily been preventable. This happens in most media that I watch but in superhero movies I see it happening as often as I see my Dad looking at me in disappointment. That and the horrible dialogue written to god knows what target audience. How many more years till they start referencing things like "cap" or "it's giving" etc. Maybe they even have already but I quit watching most superhero stuff a while back.
A lot of my friends would here me point stuff like this out and say "you're never happy" but is it really wrong to notice and point out a degradation in quality of something that used to be much better? Ignorance is bliss I guess and I'm just too aware of things that I see and hear compared to most.
@@yourlocalhuman3526”characters making completely illogical decisions” that’s comic books man. If anything the Marvel movie characters are smarter because they don’t try and kill each other at the drop of a hat.
I fucking hate the yellow costume, and hate it more when people cheer about it, sure they use Deadpool to put a ironic spin of it, like they aren't taking this seriously, but is a cynical nostalgia bullshit, Disney is stuck in the fucking past, instead of doing something new.
First
First?
Disney are incapable of producing anything good. The MCU is terrible, Star Wars is terrible currently, their television series' are terrible, Pixar have been terrible lately, and even their own animated films have been terrible.
They need a change of leadership and direction, or they will become irrelevant.
What’s wrong with the new Deadpool? 🥺 it’s fun
@shogun2215 idk, Pixar just made Inside Out 2 which was really good and performed really well.
I hope they fail, tbh. I've been done with them since I was... 14? idk. I still get cult vibes sometimes, and I think their prominence is a contributor to the pg-13-ization of culture as a whole, creating fertile ground for a social backslide into ignorant conservative moralistic delusion.
Also, I'm now convinced Star Wars was only ever good by accident and/or when the influence of Lucas was limited or constrained. While Disney's handling of the property was uniquely terrible, the trend line has always pointed down over all (or at least since an ewok appeared on screen), just with varying speed and the occasional bump from creators doing something interesting with the concept. Doesn't necessarily have to be that way, of course, and I saw Episode 1 too many times in the theater to deny there's a good core to it, but given the vagueness present in the first film, every subsequent piece of media has had enough freedom (and so few constraints) in how it elaborates on and expands the universe that the foot has been shot so many times with varying degrees of severity that it's really just a bloody stump.
Andor was pretty good, tho.
Yeah, we definitely need more superhero movies
I would argue we just need more good movies, in whatever form they take. And that requires innovation, which is not where Disney's strengths (or, to be fair, their interests) lie.
@@Darren_Mooney nope they only care about remakes, prequels, and sequels. Goes for all of Hollywood not just Disney
@@OldToasted To be fair, as the video argues, Disney are just the most ruthlessly efficient at and committed to it.
Disney either restricts movie directors, and writers like Kathleen kennedy does or hires people based upon political affiliation, or an affirmative action quota. This places very untalented people in the roles of making movies. The goal isn't to make an entertaining movies anymore, it's to push a political agenda. This is fine, but they have to make good movies, this means they got to be well written, well directed, and show that the creators actually have a passion for the material. This hasn't been the case. You can't make movies and shows that crap on long term fans favorite characters. The whole of the new deadpool movie was a criticism of modern Hollywood- Killing the anchor character ended their universe. Hollywood can't insult and attack fans either which they have been doing. Deadpool seemed rushed, but cares about it's fans, whereas most of current hollywood doesn't even care about making decent movies anymore. When you aren't part of their political cult, you see these things very clearly. That's the reason I think hollywood lashes out at fans, how do cults keep their member's in line?
99% chance Disney fails to handle X-Men properly. Not because Disney sucks ( oh, they do ) but because they will either make the mistake of making a crowd pleaser version, which will ignore the 50+ years of comics ( 60 but it had a long hiatus in the late 60’s early 70’s ). Or, they will choose the wrong X-Men era to focus on and this will alienate people who do not know anything about the X-Men that wasn’t in the pedo verse or a cartoon.
Also instead of casting actors and actresses who make sense for the characters, they will hire “stars” who do not fit ( sorry Halle )
They should look to Guardians of the Galaxy which took obscure characters and proved you do not need to focus on the trendy heroes. Sadly the best era was already ruined by the last few movies. Fox ruining the Dark Phoenix saga by smooshing it into a single terrible movie is just sad.
Fox are the ones who screwed up the characters, X-Men 97 and Deadpool and Wolverine shows they do respect and love the comics.
Just have more faith.
@@li-limandragon9287 oh I know, but have you watched Disney stuff? Yikes. For general movie goers, cool. For people who have comic knowledge.. lots of bizarre choices.
Deadpool is the only good Marvel series. The rest are just pure junk.. almost as bad as DC movies which is a pretty low bar.
Noway Darren Gave Deadpool a 1/5 😭I feel somewhat vindicated because everyone considers it the second coming of christ.
It was… not my tempo.