Yooo I've been on this shit for a good bit now. That's why my preferred symbol is the bolt cutters cuz they are good for breaking down obstacles & breaking bonds(i.e. chainlink fence, bolts, & locks)
the pure vengeance attitude that some people hold towards revolution has always made me really really uncomfortable. That kind of rhetoric (of vengeance for self satisfaction) always makes me think of the kind of attitudes that play a large part in our attitudes towards incarceration and "justice" (in the cultural sense), which isn't the kind of thing I want to go forwards. I'm right there with you, having moments that I wish I could do unspeakable things to rich people and agents of the state (in minecraft, of course), and knowing revolution will, with almost complete certainty, not be bloodless. I hope though that when we move to a new future, like is necessary, that it isn't built on top of the rolling heads of many.
I agree but there are also people who if I ever had the chance I would take revenge on, I never will so I have to content myself with that but I don't think I'll ever not want to do that.
I periodically need videos and posts like this to bring me back down to earth when my anger at reactionaries and the rich builds too strong. One of the main reasons I'm an anarchist is that I know that I, personally, couldn't be trusted with state power, because I know deep down I'd be just as bloody and tyrannical as any of the worst of them.
14:00 Nice thought, but does it doesn't mean those who have intentionally manipulated the strings to get society to where it currently stands are not morally bankrupt, depraved monsters who need to absolutely be put to justice.
I love the way I come away from your videos feeling challenged and with more avenues for learning and growing. Like a well-plotted questline in a video game. ;) A phrase that keeps coming to mind is "creative collaboration for mutual liberation."
@@Andrewism Why do you dislike the Jacobin Magazine though is it because they are non-Anarchist socialists? Moreover most socialists believe that French Revolution was ultimately a good thing because it destroyed old feudal monarchy and advanced laid foundations of Liberal Democracy and Republicanism which allowed socialist parties to exist and organize.
Hey, great video! Just because the crimethinc article you mentioned got this wrong: jacobin magazine is actually named after the black jacobins of Haiti. Bhaskar Sunkara has talked about how he was influenced by C. L. R. James a lot. It's not supposed to be a reference to the french revolution. Explicitly not, that's why there's a black jacobin in their logo.
Wow, what a video. I've never really been pro-guillotine, but definitely shared the memes and didn't think much. The part about wanting revenge really resonated deeply. I've got a lot to think about. Thank you so much.
Killing people is never a solution, just an outlet for anger and an attempt to create a sense of justice. But the moment you dehumanize someone to the point of treating them as vermin, you have lost far more than you might hope to gain by seeking revenge in any form. People are people, and I find it a more pressing issue to face my own capacity for evil that I might have compassion and maintain an ability to advocate for mercy and the end for cycles of hatred and abuse. The ends never "justify" the means, The means and the ends are one and the same.
You've given me a lot to think about as someone who used to feel so attached to this imagery. Thank you so much as always for your in-depth and thoughtful videos!
I apologize for my poor english, I just want to write a brief comment (ok, I realize it isn't short). If you want to learn more on the subject Jean Clément Martin is the leading modern historian on the period I am talking about. I really hate when people mention the guillotine. It even has become a joke between me and a friend. I perfectly know that struggling cannot be only peaceful, violent protesting is only self defense against the brutality of the State and capitalism but, I specifically do not like the guillotine for the reasons you mention. However, as far as I know, the image of Robespierre as a dictator is not quite right. Actually, this image of tyrant is spread by the French right-wing to paint the portrait of the extreme left (because, yes, the parliament has shifted that much to the right that the people that admire Robespierre are considered as radical leftist) as the beginning of all tyranny. I must had that even the idea of Terror is a right wing construct. Starting with the name, it comes from the idea that the “Terror” was “mise à l’ordre du jour”, understanding Terror was in the Agenda ; it’s just false, the “mise à l’ordre du jour” was something carefully archived, and there is just no signs of it anywhere. Robespierre was an actor, an important actor in the Comité de Salut Public, but he had to navigate between other important actors inside the State, like the rival Comité de Sureté Général. The laws and measures, even the most repressive, were not all coming from Robespierre. Also, atrocities were also committed by Représentants en mission, some of whom were also enemies of Robespierre on which he didn’t have control. The atrocities of Vendé were perpetrated because of a lack of clear orders, an undisciplined, logistically unorganized army who had to loot to eat. The right-wing want to frame it as “genocide”, I don’t agree, but they were war crimes, definetely. Staying on war, Robespierre also against bringing democracy to other countries - if you know what I mean - even if France was surrounded by hostile monarchies, he didn’t like the idea of liberating people against their will. Coming back to the most extreme way the State used its force, it was indeed used against the extreme left. You mention Pauline Léon for example who advocated for the right of women to bear arms, which at the time was a political tool like any other, as well as created a women-only Sociétés des Républicaines Révolutionnaires. But it was also used against the right, which is why Danton was killed after a culmination of infightings, and basically they killed a bunch of right-winger to give pledges to the left. Truthfully, all groups wanted to kill the other in order to “save the Revolution”. Indeed get this, the end of the Terror, the killing of Robespierre, 9th of Thermidor, is the day the guillotine had cut the most throats.The right, patiently waited, waited for leftists to kill each other, lost a couple of people here and there but once the vacuum was created, they took power and installed the Directoire and prominent criminals during the Terror had a good political career and all was blamed on Robespierre to wash their bloody hands, which is were this idea of Robespierre the tyrant comes from. So, the reason I specifically do not like the guillotine is because, as you said, it decapitated the left. One more thing, I am not aware of nobles beheading their subject. On the contrary I think the institution of the guillotine was specifically made to put all citizens on equal footing. During the Ancien Regime, the poor were hanged but the nobles were decapitated, the first considered more degrading than the later. So the revolutionaries decided that everyone was going to be killed by the State in the same medicalised way. Anyway, I am not saying all of this to vilify your video, of course not. I actually agree on the conclusions you made, I simply don’t agree with the way they were drawn on this part. As you see, I am much more silent on the rest of your argumentation (also probably because I don't know as much). I battle with the same things as you regarding the legitimacy of violence in a revolutionary context, especially the actions of the first person narrator-character of the fantasy novel we’re collectively writing. But again, great video, like always! Love and strength!
Don't apologize for "poor english", comrade. You are making your best to be understood, the least you can expect is that we will make our best to understand you:)
I think it’s also important to consider that Robespierre was not always a tyrant. While upper class, he was a lawyer whose politics and professional work revolved around equal protection under the law, commitment to direct democracy, that political legitimacy comes from the will of the people, and was so beloved - to start - he was nicknamed “The Incorruptible”. But _even this_ man, who by all accounts should have been able to be trusted with power, became paranoid and bloodthirsty. Which is why both summary execution of your political enemies is a BAD IDEA, and that creating structures that allow people to gain such power ultimately gets turned against the people who put them there. It’s why anarchism is such a powerful idea - a commitment to rooting out structures that allow people to gain that kind of power in the first place.
Yeah, that always struck me as insane. That’s like starting a religion around Abe Lincoln and using a gun as your symbol. Honestly seems kinda disrespectful, too. Shouldn’t the symbol represent something good that the religion stands for and not just the manner by which your ‘savior’ died?
This is SUCH an important video. I’ve been having thoughts about just this for months now, but I never was able to do the hard research. Thank you for your work with this, and thank you for putting it into words so well.
When you learn the true history of the guillotine (ie the State mass murdering its opponents) it kind of takes the shine out of the guillotine (pun very much intended).
So fucking refreshing to hear this. Don’t lose your morality for the sake of “a better world” as the world being built is not utopian but a step below a capitalist one
Got a guillotine sticker on my water bottle and a guillotine patch on my jacket, but man, you make some really good points. Not gonna rip em off just yet but I don't think I'll be acquiring any new guillotine imagery.
@@sung4ji3 Dramatic indeed! I understand what you're getting at, though. My answer is a tepid and boring "maybe." On one extreme, if I were in a situation where someone was trying to end my life or the life of a loved one, where I could save them by shooting the person threatening their life, yes, I think I would do it without hesitation. On the other extreme, if I suddenly found myself in The French Revolution 2: American Edition, and I was being asked to yank the rope that would chop Jeff Bezos's head off, then I probably couldn't do it. I'm honestly a bit squeamish. I don't even eat meat. I'd much rather figuratively "chop a billionaire's head off" by redistributing their wealth and forcing them to live as a regular person.
Fantastic video ! Lots of great stuff ! Though I would say there needs to be a deeper look into the history of the 1790s Revolutionary France as the summary given (which, my apologies for nitpicking a mere 30 seconds section in a 17 minute video) is very lacking, and plays into - not only 3rd republic propaganda - but 18th-19th century British propaganda and water-knowledge too If you are curious about the topic, here are some the titles -Robespierre: Portraits croisés -Twelve Who Ruled -Le Directoire. La république sans la démocratie -Robespierre. La fabrication d’une mythe -Robespierre and the festival of the Supreme Being -Le tournant de l’an III: Réaction et Terreur blanche dans la France révolutionnaire And for more resources, I suggest the Société des études robespierristes
My boyfriend's great (idk how many greats it goes back) grandfather was the recognized creator of the guillotine by the french government. Pretty neat imo
For people who rely on gradualism as a tactic, I think that abolishing the major forms of state violence to be a necessary focus. To do so we must abolish the police, abolish the prison, open the borders, and abolish the standing military (and maybe replace it with a purely reserve and defensive military) or at least minimize the standing military.
Yeah, I and a lot of my friends have used the guillotine as a symbol for revolution, but this makes sense, since it gives a vision of revenge rather than liberation.
I: I must admit, I sometimes hold vengeful fantasies about the worst of the worst, mostly the grossest of billionaires, and the "world leaders" who have shown an utter lack of any conscience or empathy - but chopping their heads off sounds simlutaneously too cruel, and too kind. Much rather I would see them thrown (temporarily) into the living conditions they have created for those economically below them. Living conditions of those impoverished and suffering _the most_ by their actions. It could satisfy our revenge fantasies to see those dirtbags in their victims´ shoes, _and_ it could teach them empathy and/or remorse if they had to experience their victims´ hardships. Not sure how well this sort of punishment would fit into the concept of rehabilitation, though, since despite being very appealing, it sort of smells of prison. Any thoughts?
Don't want to kill anyone or watch anyone die. I don't see guillotine memes as threats, but as warnings. You either bargain with those willing to bargain or you face the wrath of the wrathful.
I was reading libcom's article against the guillotine when you uploaded your video, i was worried it would be the same but I've learned so much about colonialism!
One thing that I try to keep in mind when having fantasies of the violent forms of revolution is that there is (at least in my current mode of thinking) an important distinction between violence for the sake of revenge (which I can relate to the desire for, but don't come close to endorsing), and violence for the sake of eliminating a persistent or imminent threat, which I think _can_ (perhaps) be necessary sometimes. I agree that if less drastic measures can be effective, they should certainly be tried. But I think there are times, especially with those who are willing to be blatantly deceitful, that _some sort_ of drastic measures may be necessary. Not to punish anyone, or get revenge, but to protect society as a whole. An intolerance of intolerance kind of thing... avoiding the paradox of tolerance. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on this, if/when you wish to share them.
the way i look at it in order to prevent revenge fueled violence we must work through our more primal desirers and show the ruling class the mercy they refuse to show us not because they deserve it but because we must prove we are better then they are
ahahaha "kill them with kindness" moral high horses get nowhere. Just look at the "we go high, you go low" attitude of the democrats in the US. If you aren't willing to fight dirty, your enemy will and that's how they'll win. If you're actually interested in change you're gonna have to fight dirty cause your enemy will.
@@benjaminduperreault4447 "in terms of spinoza(...)the proletariat doesnt wage war against the ruling class because it considers such a war to be just. The proletariat makes war with the ruling class because, for the first time in history, it wants to take power,(...) one makes war to win, not because it is just." Michel Foucault
@@rock7530 Take power for the sake of power? The power to do what? There's a nihilism deep within what some might describe as the Nietzschean roots of Foucault's thought, which is why I don't take much from him when it comes to politics.
This is excellent. The casual reference to the guillotine in Leftist circles has always bothered me, but I never bothered to look up the history of it. This was so informative. Thank you!
Have you ever read Against Domestication by Jacques Camatte? I feel like you would really like it, a lot of similar points are made in that paper. It's pretty short too.
The song was made exclusively for me, as the producer is a close friend of mine. I link his Soundcloud cuz he has other great work I think people should check out!
"Have these gentlemen ever seen a revolution? A revolution is certainly the most authoritarian thing there is; it is the act whereby one part of the population imposes its will upon the other part by means of rifles, bayonets and cannon - authoritarian means, if such there be at all; and if the victorious party does not want to have fought in vain, it must maintain this rule by means of the terror which its arms inspire in the reactionists. Would the Paris Commune have lasted a single day if it had not made use of this authority of the armed people against the bourgeois? Should we not, on the contrary, reproach it for not having used it freely enough?" - Frederick Engels
I'm not sure if anyone is following politics in my country, Colombia, right now, but if you are, this is EXACTLY why it makes me hopeful. One of the things i like the most of the new goverment of Gustavo Petro, while very clearly not perfect, is the constant reminder that the left didn't rise to power to get revenge on the oppressive right wing capitalist/feudalist political class for all the physical, economical and political violence they dealt to us in the past 60+ years. The prominence of violence towards innocents that the marxist guerrillas have made during the war also makes it easy to reject revenge as an option. Something else I think is valuable is the push to have a very politically diverse team, coherent but open to plenty debate, though some in the left, including myself, would say sometimes a bit too diverse, including questionable traditional politicians. It's only been a couple of months but with his speeches in the UN and in COP27 against war on drugs and climate change does make me very hopeful for a strong social growth period in Latin America. Latinoamerica unida ✊🏻
exactly. 'eat the rich' doesn't mean eating the people who are rich right now. It means eating the concept of rich people and the mechanisms that create them. Even the most evil individuals are not what is wrong with the world, it's the system allowing and encouraging these individuals to thrive at the expense of others.
I'm in the process of reading Black Jacobins by C L R James, but there is no mention of the guillotine beyond its uses in France. I guess that makes sense, since Haiti wasn't under Republican French rule for long.
Thank you so much as a leftie for making this video. Made a similar video but since I'm not leftie enough people didn't listen. th-cam.com/video/fKBBr5mjEN8/w-d-xo.html I at this point consider myself 1/3rd liberal 1/3rd socialist and 1/3rd anarach because they all have merit but your videos are filling in many of the mechanist issues I have always been confused about with anarchism as the further left you go the worse you tend to be at explaining your position. Thank you so much for your channel. I hope to learn more. I may at some point completely abandon liberalism and statism entirely. Until then I will continue to listen to your ideas and find out how to circle the square I have against going stateless. I can't wait to hear about your future videos discussing community and bottom up organization that we have been stripped of by capitalism.
"The Jacobins were closer to Pinochet than modern socialist revolutionaries." Is a take that I cannot take seriously. You're going to need much more analysis of the situation to convince me otherwise.
They were extremely nationalistic, were always appealing to the concept of the nation to justify their actions in terms state violence against civilians - who were no longer french and thus their humanity could be forgone. It’s a similar deal with the French justifying war with Austria, Prussia and Britain.
Good video, though I don't think I entirely agree. Nowadays, invoking the guillotine is unambiguously a threat against the owning class. A promise that, if the status quo doesn't change, then things are going to get nasty. As with the slogan 'eat the rich', the nastiness is kind of the point. And while I could probably be convinced that who it was used against in the past should give us pause, there is no confusion about what it's currently intended to represent. I like to think that I'm not a vengeful person. That I take no joy in the thought of killing somebody. That the only reason I would ever do so would be for purely utilitarian reasons. But if I were put in a position to test that perception, I have no idea whether it would hold up. I don't believe that cruelty for cruelty's sake can ever be justified, but I think there are instances where it can be tolerated as an undesirable side-effect, and as long as oppressive power structures exist, I find it kind of distasteful to police the intentions of the oppressed. When it comes to revenge, you can do far worse than a guillotine. I say as a sedentary white guy in the imperial core who has never been exposed to the reality of brutal violence.
We're back :)
Why was it taken down?
@@JDCosmos8 According to something he posted in the Discord it had to do with Visa reasons.
Yooo I've been on this shit for a good bit now. That's why my preferred symbol is the bolt cutters cuz they are good for breaking down obstacles & breaking bonds(i.e. chainlink fence, bolts, & locks)
I really like that imagery
Bolt cutters have been used for many years now by the animal liberation movement
I never thought of it like that!
theres also the good old fashion fist in the air
I: Those are an amazing symbol; might wanna steal them, hahah
the pure vengeance attitude that some people hold towards revolution has always made me really really uncomfortable. That kind of rhetoric (of vengeance for self satisfaction) always makes me think of the kind of attitudes that play a large part in our attitudes towards incarceration and "justice" (in the cultural sense), which isn't the kind of thing I want to go forwards.
I'm right there with you, having moments that I wish I could do unspeakable things to rich people and agents of the state (in minecraft, of course), and knowing revolution will, with almost complete certainty, not be bloodless. I hope though that when we move to a new future, like is necessary, that it isn't built on top of the rolling heads of many.
I agree but there are also people who if I ever had the chance I would take revenge on, I never will so I have to content myself with that but I don't think I'll ever not want to do that.
This is the realist answer to me. If given power, I would not kill. But to take power, we will have to shed blood.
The revolution is nigh!
I periodically need videos and posts like this to bring me back down to earth when my anger at reactionaries and the rich builds too strong. One of the main reasons I'm an anarchist is that I know that I, personally, couldn't be trusted with state power, because I know deep down I'd be just as bloody and tyrannical as any of the worst of them.
Oh relatable!
Scarily relatable.
14:00 Nice thought, but does it doesn't mean those who have intentionally manipulated the strings to get society to where it currently stands are not morally bankrupt, depraved monsters who need to absolutely be put to justice.
yep!
@@bluelotus.societythey were human and had to make it sound right to themselves
In other words, comrades...
...don’t lose your head!
Ayyye 😎👉
Uphold Saint andrewist thought. He just don't miss
I love the way I come away from your videos feeling challenged and with more avenues for learning and growing. Like a well-plotted questline in a video game. ;) A phrase that keeps coming to mind is "creative collaboration for mutual liberation."
This makes the Jacobin magazine look kinda sus with this examination in mind. At least branding wise.
Don't get me started on Jacobin Magazine😂
@@Andrewism Why do you dislike the Jacobin Magazine though is it because they are non-Anarchist socialists?
Moreover most socialists believe that French Revolution was ultimately a good thing because it destroyed old feudal monarchy and advanced laid foundations of Liberal Democracy and Republicanism which allowed socialist parties to exist and organize.
The next video needs to be on this "when socialism grows stale"
@@Andrewism it's named after the black jacobins of Haiti, not the french jacobins
It's named after the Haitian Jacobins (who were temporarily freed after Robespierre abolished slavery)
Hey, great video!
Just because the crimethinc article you mentioned got this wrong: jacobin magazine is actually named after the black jacobins of Haiti.
Bhaskar Sunkara has talked about how he was influenced by C. L. R. James a lot. It's not supposed to be a reference to the french revolution. Explicitly not, that's why there's a black jacobin in their logo.
Wow, what a video. I've never really been pro-guillotine, but definitely shared the memes and didn't think much. The part about wanting revenge really resonated deeply. I've got a lot to think about. Thank you so much.
Killing people is never a solution, just an outlet for anger and an attempt to create a sense of justice. But the moment you dehumanize someone to the point of treating them as vermin, you have lost far more than you might hope to gain by seeking revenge in any form.
People are people, and I find it a more pressing issue to face my own capacity for evil that I might have compassion and maintain an ability to advocate for mercy and the end for cycles of hatred and abuse.
The ends never "justify" the means,
The means and the ends are one and the same.
You've given me a lot to think about as someone who used to feel so attached to this imagery. Thank you so much as always for your in-depth and thoughtful videos!
"The depths of my fury know no bounds."
You should get that tattooed, honestly.
Great video. 🖤
I apologize for my poor english, I just want to write a brief comment (ok, I realize it isn't short). If you want to learn more on the subject Jean Clément Martin is the leading modern historian on the period I am talking about.
I really hate when people mention the guillotine. It even has become a joke between me and a friend. I perfectly know that struggling cannot be only peaceful, violent protesting is only self defense against the brutality of the State and capitalism but, I specifically do not like the guillotine for the reasons you mention. However, as far as I know, the image of Robespierre as a dictator is not quite right. Actually, this image of tyrant is spread by the French right-wing to paint the portrait of the extreme left (because, yes, the parliament has shifted that much to the right that the people that admire Robespierre are considered as radical leftist) as the beginning of all tyranny. I must had that even the idea of Terror is a right wing construct. Starting with the name, it comes from the idea that the “Terror” was “mise à l’ordre du jour”, understanding Terror was in the Agenda ; it’s just false, the “mise à l’ordre du jour” was something carefully archived, and there is just no signs of it anywhere. Robespierre was an actor, an important actor in the Comité de Salut Public, but he had to navigate between other important actors inside the State, like the rival Comité de Sureté Général. The laws and measures, even the most repressive, were not all coming from Robespierre. Also, atrocities were also committed by Représentants en mission, some of whom were also enemies of Robespierre on which he didn’t have control. The atrocities of Vendé were perpetrated because of a lack of clear orders, an undisciplined, logistically unorganized army who had to loot to eat. The right-wing want to frame it as “genocide”, I don’t agree, but they were war crimes, definetely. Staying on war, Robespierre also against bringing democracy to other countries - if you know what I mean - even if France was surrounded by hostile monarchies, he didn’t like the idea of liberating people against their will. Coming back to the most extreme way the State used its force, it was indeed used against the extreme left. You mention Pauline Léon for example who advocated for the right of women to bear arms, which at the time was a political tool like any other, as well as created a women-only Sociétés des Républicaines Révolutionnaires. But it was also used against the right, which is why Danton was killed after a culmination of infightings, and basically they killed a bunch of right-winger to give pledges to the left. Truthfully, all groups wanted to kill the other in order to “save the Revolution”. Indeed get this, the end of the Terror, the killing of Robespierre, 9th of Thermidor, is the day the guillotine had cut the most throats.The right, patiently waited, waited for leftists to kill each other, lost a couple of people here and there but once the vacuum was created, they took power and installed the Directoire and prominent criminals during the Terror had a good political career and all was blamed on Robespierre to wash their bloody hands, which is were this idea of Robespierre the tyrant comes from. So, the reason I specifically do not like the guillotine is because, as you said, it decapitated the left. One more thing, I am not aware of nobles beheading their subject. On the contrary I think the institution of the guillotine was specifically made to put all citizens on equal footing. During the Ancien Regime, the poor were hanged but the nobles were decapitated, the first considered more degrading than the later. So the revolutionaries decided that everyone was going to be killed by the State in the same medicalised way.
Anyway, I am not saying all of this to vilify your video, of course not. I actually agree on the conclusions you made, I simply don’t agree with the way they were drawn on this part. As you see, I am much more silent on the rest of your argumentation (also probably because I don't know as much). I battle with the same things as you regarding the legitimacy of violence in a revolutionary context, especially the actions of the first person narrator-character of the fantasy novel we’re collectively writing.
But again, great video, like always! Love and strength!
Thank you for the extra information! I should've dug deeper, of course, there are more moving parts at play than just one man.
Don't apologize for "poor english", comrade. You are making your best to be understood, the least you can expect is that we will make our best to understand you:)
gonna steal a lot of these words for myself you really captured what i’ve been feeling lately
I think it’s also important to consider that Robespierre was not always a tyrant. While upper class, he was a lawyer whose politics and professional work revolved around equal protection under the law, commitment to direct democracy, that political legitimacy comes from the will of the people, and was so beloved - to start - he was nicknamed “The Incorruptible”.
But _even this_ man, who by all accounts should have been able to be trusted with power, became paranoid and bloodthirsty. Which is why both summary execution of your political enemies is a BAD IDEA, and that creating structures that allow people to gain such power ultimately gets turned against the people who put them there. It’s why anarchism is such a powerful idea - a commitment to rooting out structures that allow people to gain that kind of power in the first place.
Emma Goldman telling us why the ends never justify the means is beautiful.
The guillotine as a symbol rooted in violence reminds me of a certain religious symbol…
Yeah, that always struck me as insane. That’s like starting a religion around Abe Lincoln and using a gun as your symbol. Honestly seems kinda disrespectful, too. Shouldn’t the symbol represent something good that the religion stands for and not just the manner by which your ‘savior’ died?
This is SUCH an important video. I’ve been having thoughts about just this for months now, but I never was able to do the hard research. Thank you for your work with this, and thank you for putting it into words so well.
When you learn the true history of the guillotine (ie the State mass murdering its opponents) it kind of takes the shine out of the guillotine (pun very much intended).
But what if it were used against those in the state as a symbolic move?
Such a great channel and just 4k subscribers? Wtf. This channel deserves more recognition! Thank you for all your work. Watching you from Russia :)
So fucking refreshing to hear this. Don’t lose your morality for the sake of “a better world” as the world being built is not utopian but a step below a capitalist one
The single most under subscribed channel on this platform. Great work once again.
Got a guillotine sticker on my water bottle and a guillotine patch on my jacket, but man, you make some really good points. Not gonna rip em off just yet but I don't think I'll be acquiring any new guillotine imagery.
@@sung4ji3 Dramatic indeed! I understand what you're getting at, though. My answer is a tepid and boring "maybe." On one extreme, if I were in a situation where someone was trying to end my life or the life of a loved one, where I could save them by shooting the person threatening their life, yes, I think I would do it without hesitation. On the other extreme, if I suddenly found myself in The French Revolution 2: American Edition, and I was being asked to yank the rope that would chop Jeff Bezos's head off, then I probably couldn't do it.
I'm honestly a bit squeamish. I don't even eat meat. I'd much rather figuratively "chop a billionaire's head off" by redistributing their wealth and forcing them to live as a regular person.
"what the guillotine should remind us of is the danger of becoming what we hate." Thank you for this. Yes
Thanks for another great video! Well researched and interesting to watch too! Awesome job as usual!
Wow. This was really enlightening tbh. I had been skeptical of the title but I'm glad I watched all the way through
thank you!! fantastic video
godddd i am so glad you collabed with OCC idk how i would have found you otherwise but im so glad you did your videos are so good!!
This video is spot on. We should not be for retributive 'justice'.
Beautiful work my friend. Thank you.
Ive been binge watching all your videos, you are doing great to the world by making this videos. Saludos desde la LIT-CI!
Fantastic video ! Lots of great stuff !
Though I would say there needs to be a deeper look into the history of the 1790s Revolutionary France as the summary given (which, my apologies for nitpicking a mere 30 seconds section in a 17 minute video) is very lacking, and plays into - not only 3rd republic propaganda - but 18th-19th century British propaganda and water-knowledge too
If you are curious about the topic, here are some the titles
-Robespierre: Portraits croisés
-Twelve Who Ruled
-Le Directoire. La république sans la démocratie
-Robespierre. La fabrication d’une mythe
-Robespierre and the festival of the Supreme Being
-Le tournant de l’an III: Réaction et Terreur blanche dans la France révolutionnaire
And for more resources, I suggest the Société des études robespierristes
Thank you, another commenter brought it to my attention as well. I appreciate the resources! As the saying goes, [we] are not immune to propaganda.
I keep coming back to this. To me, this is what revolutionary thought really looks like. Beautiful argument, thank you!
My boyfriend's great (idk how many greats it goes back) grandfather was the recognized creator of the guillotine by the french government. Pretty neat imo
Are you pride
As always amazing vid
For people who rely on gradualism as a tactic, I think that abolishing the major forms of state violence to be a necessary focus. To do so we must abolish the police, abolish the prison, open the borders, and abolish the standing military (and maybe replace it with a purely reserve and defensive military) or at least minimize the standing military.
I just found your videos and they're amazing, so informative and inspiring 💛
16:42 yo, that looks interesting, where can i read this
theanarchistlibrary.org/library/emma-goldman-my-disillusionment-in-russia
theanarchistlibrary.org/library/emma-goldman-my-further-disillusionment-in-russia
So nice to see someone mention this!
By far the best channel I've seen, extremely concise and easy to understand. Keep doing what you're doing I hope you get boosted soon
Violent justice in an attempt to resolve intense emotion will always perpetuate the cycle of suffering.
very important message: "Revenge is not the path to liberation"
Yeah, I and a lot of my friends have used the guillotine as a symbol for revolution, but this makes sense, since it gives a vision of revenge rather than liberation.
It should be noted that sometimes in order to achieve liberation, your captors must die. Especially if they give you no other choice.
I: I must admit, I sometimes hold vengeful fantasies about the worst of the worst, mostly the grossest of billionaires, and the "world leaders" who have shown an utter lack of any conscience or empathy - but chopping their heads off sounds simlutaneously too cruel, and too kind. Much rather I would see them thrown (temporarily) into the living conditions they have created for those economically below them. Living conditions of those impoverished and suffering _the most_ by their actions. It could satisfy our revenge fantasies to see those dirtbags in their victims´ shoes, _and_ it could teach them empathy and/or remorse if they had to experience their victims´ hardships. Not sure how well this sort of punishment would fit into the concept of rehabilitation, though, since despite being very appealing, it sort of smells of prison.
Any thoughts?
Don't want to kill anyone or watch anyone die. I don't see guillotine memes as threats, but as warnings. You either bargain with those willing to bargain or you face the wrath of the wrathful.
I'm only human, my fury knows no bounds. Brother, we're on the same page.
Outstanding video!
I was reading libcom's article against the guillotine when you uploaded your video, i was worried it would be the same but I've learned so much about colonialism!
You are like the non-evil twin of Hakim
One thing that I try to keep in mind when having fantasies of the violent forms of revolution is that there is (at least in my current mode of thinking) an important distinction between violence for the sake of revenge (which I can relate to the desire for, but don't come close to endorsing), and violence for the sake of eliminating a persistent or imminent threat, which I think _can_ (perhaps) be necessary sometimes. I agree that if less drastic measures can be effective, they should certainly be tried. But I think there are times, especially with those who are willing to be blatantly deceitful, that _some sort_ of drastic measures may be necessary. Not to punish anyone, or get revenge, but to protect society as a whole. An intolerance of intolerance kind of thing... avoiding the paradox of tolerance.
I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on this, if/when you wish to share them.
Yes. Andrew is really motivating me to try and actually do something - where to start?
the way i look at it in order to prevent revenge fueled violence we must work through our more primal desirers and show the ruling class the mercy they refuse to show us not because they deserve it but because we must prove we are better then they are
ahahaha "kill them with kindness" moral high horses get nowhere. Just look at the "we go high, you go low" attitude of the democrats in the US. If you aren't willing to fight dirty, your enemy will and that's how they'll win. If you're actually interested in change you're gonna have to fight dirty cause your enemy will.
@@benjaminduperreault4447 "in terms of spinoza(...)the proletariat doesnt wage war against the ruling class because it considers such a war to be just. The proletariat makes war with the ruling class because, for the first time in history, it wants to take power,(...) one makes war to win, not because it is just."
Michel Foucault
oh that's not what i mean i mean when we win then we show mercy
@@rock7530 Take power for the sake of power? The power to do what? There's a nihilism deep within what some might describe as the Nietzschean roots of Foucault's thought, which is why I don't take much from him when it comes to politics.
It's an expression of frustration and anger, not something we really want to use.
It's the first time ever that I see my island in a thumbnail
It’s a useful shorthand for showing displeasure with the ruling class
Thanks. My social anger needed this video.
This is excellent. The casual reference to the guillotine in Leftist circles has always bothered me, but I never bothered to look up the history of it. This was so informative. Thank you!
Have you ever read Against Domestication by Jacques Camatte? I feel like you would really like it, a lot of similar points are made in that paper. It's pretty short too.
I'll check it out!
my nickname among friends is literally miss guillotine... lol
gotta change it to molotov mafia :)))
An excellent video I couldn't recommend enough. I appreciate your clarity and considerate approach. It's more of what we need in the Left.
Great video
Second source from funambulist is gone. any alternative sources?
6:16 I heard "declared himself emperor in [guillotine] 04.
also im thanking you dearly for the video.
I can't find the songs you use in your videos in the links to the soundcloud.
The song was made exclusively for me, as the producer is a close friend of mine. I link his Soundcloud cuz he has other great work I think people should check out!
@@Andrewism it all makes sense now, thanks for replying. Hope you're doing well, can't wait for the next video!
liking this video before watching it
heck, now i wanna like it afterwards
Every time I think about guillotine, I think of this video.
"Have these gentlemen ever seen a revolution? A revolution is certainly the most authoritarian thing there is; it is the act whereby one part of the population imposes its will upon the other part by means of rifles, bayonets and cannon - authoritarian means, if such there be at all; and if the victorious party does not want to have fought in vain, it must maintain this rule by means of the terror which its arms inspire in the reactionists. Would the Paris Commune have lasted a single day if it had not made use of this authority of the armed people against the bourgeois? Should we not, on the contrary, reproach it for not having used it freely enough?"
- Frederick Engels
🤮🤮🤮
@@otherperson Okay fascist lmfao
Christoph Probst also was executed alongside Sophie and Hans Scholl
Thank you for this video, amazing
Welp, I’m sold. Time to go through my phone and delete my guillotine memes.
IT GOES IT GOES IT GOES IT GOES IT GOES IT GOES IT GOES IT GOES
aunque no estoy de acuerdo con todo, es belo ver a un hermano sudamericano haciendo un buen video como ese! abrazos de Brasil
just found out that the official language in Trinidad and Tobago is english... fucking ignorant
@@Rdorulesbc2 KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK
Love the start of the vid love Jon Bellion.
Revenge is a dead thing, weighing down the living
@@sung4ji3 but when it becomes cyclical, there's no escaping the dead weight
You are beyond bro, aroha from NZ Aotearoa
It goes
It goes
It goes
It goes
It goes
It goes
It goes
It goes
*GUILLOTINE*
YUH!
Objection: it's fucking cool when in a story someone says "GUILTY"
I'm not sure if anyone is following politics in my country, Colombia, right now, but if you are, this is EXACTLY why it makes me hopeful. One of the things i like the most of the new goverment of Gustavo Petro, while very clearly not perfect, is the constant reminder that the left didn't rise to power to get revenge on the oppressive right wing capitalist/feudalist political class for all the physical, economical and political violence they dealt to us in the past 60+ years. The prominence of violence towards innocents that the marxist guerrillas have made during the war also makes it easy to reject revenge as an option.
Something else I think is valuable is the push to have a very politically diverse team, coherent but open to plenty debate, though some in the left, including myself, would say sometimes a bit too diverse, including questionable traditional politicians.
It's only been a couple of months but with his speeches in the UN and in COP27 against war on drugs and climate change does make me very hopeful for a strong social growth period in Latin America. Latinoamerica unida ✊🏻
I believe we should always strive for peace and only act violently if forced to do so in extreme self defense.
I guess revenge isn't really a healthy motivation.
As my Anarcho-Primetivist Comrade once said: The Guillotine is so technical :D
B: DON´T LOSE YOUR HEADS, PEOPLE!
exactly. 'eat the rich' doesn't mean eating the people who are rich right now. It means eating the concept of rich people and the mechanisms that create them. Even the most evil individuals are not what is wrong with the world, it's the system allowing and encouraging these individuals to thrive at the expense of others.
Guillotine is cancelled
Pack it up folks!
Nice video we where just talking about you over on the Dialectic (hosted on noncompete)
I'm in the process of reading Black Jacobins by C L R James, but there is no mention of the guillotine beyond its uses in France.
I guess that makes sense, since Haiti wasn't under Republican French rule for long.
gimme that algorithm-boost
Eren Yeager: I will become the Guillotine.
something something master's house something something master's tools
Stripping the rich of their wealth and forcing them to live as poor is a much better punishment than death anyway
I see what you mean but that’s just another form of revenge that ultimately is not going to help anything.
@@anrysse How is it not going to help to make the world better by stripping rich parasites of their wealth? Are you an ancap?
@@angela_merkeI I was referring to forcing them to live as poor.
@@anrysse as poor as their workers. If they were good to us, they have nothing to fear.
@@rituparikh2255 Literally missing the point of the video. 😑
We struggle against people who would happily torture and kill us. If they can say the same about us that is a problem.
Thank you so much as a leftie for making this video. Made a similar video but since I'm not leftie enough people didn't listen. th-cam.com/video/fKBBr5mjEN8/w-d-xo.html I at this point consider myself 1/3rd liberal 1/3rd socialist and 1/3rd anarach because they all have merit but your videos are filling in many of the mechanist issues I have always been confused about with anarchism as the further left you go the worse you tend to be at explaining your position. Thank you so much for your channel. I hope to learn more. I may at some point completely abandon liberalism and statism entirely. Until then I will continue to listen to your ideas and find out how to circle the square I have against going stateless. I can't wait to hear about your future videos discussing community and bottom up organization that we have been stripped of by capitalism.
YOOOOOOOOOOOO Holy SHIT!
there is no right answer to me. I do believe it is wrong to kill, ever. I also believe that nonviolence will not work in our "political" situation.
"The Jacobins were closer to Pinochet than modern socialist revolutionaries." Is a take that I cannot take seriously. You're going to need much more analysis of the situation to convince me otherwise.
They were extremely nationalistic, were always appealing to the concept of the nation to justify their actions in terms state violence against civilians - who were no longer french and thus their humanity could be forgone. It’s a similar deal with the French justifying war with Austria, Prussia and Britain.
Fantastic video! 👍
They have cute little ones for cutting cheese.
0.0
Good video, though I don't think I entirely agree.
Nowadays, invoking the guillotine is unambiguously a threat against the owning class. A promise that, if the status quo doesn't change, then things are going to get nasty. As with the slogan 'eat the rich', the nastiness is kind of the point. And while I could probably be convinced that who it was used against in the past should give us pause, there is no confusion about what it's currently intended to represent.
I like to think that I'm not a vengeful person. That I take no joy in the thought of killing somebody. That the only reason I would ever do so would be for purely utilitarian reasons. But if I were put in a position to test that perception, I have no idea whether it would hold up. I don't believe that cruelty for cruelty's sake can ever be justified, but I think there are instances where it can be tolerated as an undesirable side-effect, and as long as oppressive power structures exist, I find it kind of distasteful to police the intentions of the oppressed. When it comes to revenge, you can do far worse than a guillotine.
I say as a sedentary white guy in the imperial core who has never been exposed to the reality of brutal violence.
You never miss. Thank you for posting this lol. I have been bullied out of so many leftist spaces for even suggesting this lol