“the pilots of N456L declared an emergency because of airframe icing. The aircraft was being vectored to land at Denver-Stapleton International Airport, CO, when it crashed into an open field about 13 miles east of Arapahoe County Airport.” ntsb
@@sparkyobrian6417 Then AJI should not have edited that declaration out of the video, especially since ATC and the flight crew had trouble getting on the same page.
About 30 years ago I was on a church retreat at Winter Clove Inn at the base of Round Top, in Greene County, NY. I hiked to the top of the mountain, beyond where the trail ended, and found a wrecked plain upside down up there. I took one picture and then many years later I googled the registration number (N1316T), and found that the crash happened May 26, 1983, and the plane was a Piper PA-28-140. I believe the pilot was the only person on board and he was killed. It would be interesting if you could do a video on that flight, if you can find enough information on it. Thanks.
I flew the King Air 200 for 8 years and was an instructor for FlightSafety on the 200 1978-1986. I also flew it as a corporate pilot and one night I was climbing in clear icing conditions and almost got overwhelmed by clear ice while climbing at the minimum icing speed of 140 knots. Also, in 1990 I was a pilot for United Airlines operating out of Stapleton. One night while I was in the 737 flight simulator a Cessna Caravan crashed just south of the UAL simulator building after an encounter with what was later described as extreme icing conditions between 7000 feet and 9000 feet. In over 58 years as a pilot,this is the one and only time I have ever heard the term extreme icing.
Been there (almost) done that on more than one occasion.. Watching the ASI creep back to min speed for ice and unable to descend is one of the most unnerving experiences a pilot will have to deal with.. have to admit, I've had my share of luck.
My friends cousin died like this Crashed right into someone's house, if the family hadn't been arguing, and left the room, They would have been dead too.
When I'm about to hit the road in my car to make a long trip, I check the weather. It's useful information, knowing what you might encounter. Maybe even looking at some places along the way in case I need to stop because of rain or fog. You know... keeping me and the people that travel with me SAFE... My head can't even compute why a pilot, looking out the window and seeing snow falling can just think ¨meh... no need for an update. We'll be fine¨.
As a former pilot I know how easy it is to sit in the comfort of your home and second guess the pilots decisions...but it begs one undeniably important question..why didn't they just return to their departure point?
I don’t get this -and why they decided to fly in these conditions and not obtain the current weather report in an area that is known for icing. i’m sure the executive passenger is bully the pilots into continuing the flight. In my opinion
@@horseathalt7308 Total speculative BS. Your envy is showing. It is equally likely that the pilots hesitated to give the impression that they lacked the skills needed to safely operate in those conditions. Did you see that the pilots did not obtain a current weather briefing, which also tends to support that it was the pilots - not the “ivory tower passengers” - who made poor choices.
This was 3 years before Air Florida’s Flight 90. Icing was implicated as was the Florida based flight crew’s laissez faire attitude about icing. Texas, especially southeast Texas, in March is warm and green. Having lived in TX and CO, I imagine it did not feel that cold at this airport (now named Centennial Airport) but it gets very cold very quickly once airborne. I have flown out of the current location for DEN many, many times in the winter. Between the wind and frequently stormy conditions pilots experience, this airport has a reputation. Stapleton was much worse. In short, the pilots failed to check weather reports because they thought things would be fine and probably wanted to “try again” to fly to Texas following a formal de-icing at a major airport. They must have been horribly inexperienced regarding flying from high elevation airports in the winter
Joshua, it's been a long time since I commented. I hope your career is fruitful and you and your family are doing well. Keep us posted. Thank you for everything you have done for us, and continue to do, with this channel. 🤍👍💪 Maayong luck ug labing, maayo nga gusto!
@@Talote1983 Tricky one. Yes the correct decision not to fly, but there was only mention of brief severe icing, and even that didn’t seem to be present on the 4 hour old weather they had. For all intents and purposes most pilots in that situation would have been expecting only moderate icing, and these guys were experienced. The King Air is actually not too bad in icing for a prop, so it must have been very severe. This one is just unlucky.
"It could not be determined why the pilots failed to obtain the current weather briefing." Probably for the same reason they diverted to an airport much farther away from the one they'd departed, when the icing conditions certainly weren't getting any better. "Descend and maintain 10,000. That's the best I can do right now." Rick Harrison was an air traffic controller back in the day?
Not a typo. According to the NTSB report, Appendix B, under the heading "Barbara Ray Fisher": *"He* held airline transport pilot certificate No. 1196805, dated June 27, 1974, for airplane multiengine land, with a type rating in the DC-3... In addition, *he* held flight instructor certificate No. 1196805 CFI, dated August 3, 1979... *He* held a second - class medical certificate, dated January 14, 1980, with the limitation that the holder wear glasses for near and far vision while exercising the privileges of his airman certificate." I was surprised to see *"He* has 10,225 hours of flying time" as well, to be honest.
*He* went by Ray. From the Find-a-Grave website: *Son* of George and Alice Fisher. Wed Helen Enloe, 15 Oct 1949, Texas. Children: Timothy and Linda. Wed Carey Gordon, 14 Aug 1975, Texas.
@@roscoewhite3793thank you for this information! I kinda wondered the same. Just wondering, did he by any chance have a brother named… Sue? I can hear Johnny Cash snickering right now!🤭
Poor souls,maythey all rest in peace.Turboprops or pistons with boots have never impressed me much in icing conditions,not to say they've scared the living sh. out of me."certified in known icing conditions" is just a presumption hard to define,as icing conditions include infinite variables.And we all know what happens when you fly passengers commercialy.A bad day for flying.
@@b.t.356 wow - you’d want to have a serious and difficult conversation, a la Johnny Cash’s ‘Boy named Sue’ if that’s what your parents named you (assuming you’re a boy’).
Allec, these presentations would be much better if you would invest in narration software. While I like your product, I find that the Air Disasters series is more to my liking due to the narration. If I am reading, I am missing the detail of the video.
Alec took a poll a while ago and apparently captions won. I voted captions. Alec might offer narration WITH captions and those that did not like narration could turn down volume (but would lose sound effects and music).
I prefer the quiet and ambience here and Flight Channel. The topic has come up on both channels and thankfully they listen to their viewers. Most do not want narration. Lots of other channels for you to choose from if that's your thing.
The promise of good winter weather back home in Texas lured them into Colorado Icing conditions ! I'm from Lufkin Texas & most winter days were pretty decent / warm vs Colorado.
This screams complete carelessness on ATC. It appears that the pilots should have done better to check icing conditions better, but once they were in the air and realized there was a problem, atc might as well just have told the to go f themselves. “10,000 is the best I can do”? Like dumbass our plane can’t even maintain that because of the icing. The ATC person should have been charged with homicide. “Best I can do” so let me get this straight, the air traffic was so busy in the area you couldn’t do anything to get them to safety? If the air traffic was so busy, then no other plane had ice? If the air traffic was so busy, that’s probably a decent indicator that it’s safe to fly.
There were transgender pilots in 1980? Who knew? I thought that didn't start until Obama. Also, a German tail number in Denver? Well, that might explain the gender confusion.
As a subject matter expert on the King Air 200, I can compliment you on the total accuracy of everything you said about this airplane. Well done!
When the thumbnail is a wing tip sticking into the ground, you know this story isn’t ending well.
When the video is from Allec, you know this isn't going to end well.
He didn't used to do that. Frankly, it ruins the suspense. Go ahead, tell me how bad I am for wanting suspense.
Not sure why they didn't return to Arapahoe which was closer than diverting to Stapleton.
Thanks Allec. You always come through with the details.
Don't argue with ATC. Declare an emergency.
Bingo. I was like . What in the heck are they doing dancing around their SERIOUS immediate emergency. It probably killed them all
“the pilots of N456L declared an emergency because of airframe icing. The aircraft was being vectored to land at Denver-Stapleton International Airport, CO, when it crashed into an open field about 13 miles east of Arapahoe County Airport.” ntsb
@@sparkyobrian6417 Then AJI should not have edited that declaration out of the video, especially since ATC and the flight crew had trouble getting on the same page.
A very sad loss - it seems that missing the latest weather briefing meant that the pilots were heading unaware into really dangerous conditions 😢
About 30 years ago I was on a church retreat at Winter Clove Inn at the base of Round Top, in Greene County, NY. I hiked to the top of the mountain, beyond where the trail ended, and found a wrecked plain upside down up there. I took one picture and then many years later I googled the registration number (N1316T), and found that the crash happened May 26, 1983, and the plane was a Piper PA-28-140. I believe the pilot was the only person on board and he was killed. It would be interesting if you could do a video on that flight, if you can find enough information on it. Thanks.
I flew the King Air 200 for 8 years and was an instructor for FlightSafety on the 200 1978-1986. I also flew it as a corporate pilot and one night I was climbing in clear icing conditions and almost got overwhelmed by clear ice while climbing at the minimum icing speed of 140 knots. Also, in 1990 I was a pilot for United Airlines operating out of Stapleton. One night while I was in the 737 flight simulator a Cessna Caravan crashed just south of the UAL simulator building after an encounter with what was later described as extreme icing conditions between 7000 feet and 9000 feet. In over 58 years as a pilot,this is the one and only time I have ever heard the term extreme icing.
Been there (almost) done that on more than one occasion.. Watching the ASI creep back to min speed for ice and unable to descend is one of the most unnerving experiences a pilot will have to deal with.. have to admit, I've had my share of luck.
Why were you unable to descend James?
@@malcolmwhite6588 Over the Carpathian Mountains :
I was hoping theyd turn back immediately, why continue on which is further away. Thanks Allec as always for putting these together and explanation
With the supercooled droplets, reminded me of Roselawn. RIP folks.
My friends cousin died like this
Crashed right into someone's house, if the family hadn't been arguing, and left the room,
They would have been dead too.
Pics or it didn’t happen
@@liamb8644 : FOAD (troll)!!!
@@liamb8644 dicks or it didn't happen
When I'm about to hit the road in my car to make a long trip, I check the weather. It's useful information, knowing what you might encounter. Maybe even looking at some places along the way in case I need to stop because of rain or fog. You know... keeping me and the people that travel with me SAFE...
My head can't even compute why a pilot, looking out the window and seeing snow falling can just think ¨meh... no need for an update. We'll be fine¨.
As always your loyal subscriber.
I know you’re the OG.
Thnx Alec, again great video
Never fly with a man named Barbara.
Yep I noticed the first and middle name...Americans need to stop using the same names for different genders
Great content as always!
It's kind of hard to fly an ice cube.
As a former pilot I know how easy it is to sit in the comfort of your home and second guess the pilots decisions...but it begs one undeniably important question..why didn't they just return to their departure point?
Bad day to fly. Lesson learned the hard way folks. Don’t let it be you!
I always wonder how this guy manages to find these unknown crashes.
I don’t get this -and why they decided to fly in these conditions and not obtain the current weather report in an area that is known for icing. i’m sure the executive passenger is bully the pilots into continuing the flight. In my opinion
Yep, every time it seems like this. Intimidation..well that ivoryTower guy won't be bothering anyone again.
@@horseathalt7308 Total speculative BS. Your envy is showing. It is equally likely that the pilots hesitated to give the impression that they lacked the skills needed to safely operate in those conditions. Did you see that the pilots did not obtain a current weather briefing, which also tends to support that it was the pilots - not the “ivory tower passengers” - who made poor choices.
@@cogitoergospud1 Nope, I'm not envious of those pr. icks. I'd rather be lacking in monetary wealth and flush with ethical wealth.
This was 3 years before Air Florida’s Flight 90. Icing was implicated as was the Florida based flight crew’s laissez faire attitude about icing. Texas, especially southeast Texas, in March is warm and green. Having lived in TX and CO, I imagine it did not feel that cold at this airport (now named Centennial Airport) but it gets very cold very quickly once airborne. I have flown out of the current location for DEN many, many times in the winter. Between the wind and frequently stormy conditions pilots experience, this airport has a reputation. Stapleton was much worse. In short, the pilots failed to check weather reports because they thought things would be fine and probably wanted to “try again” to fly to Texas following a formal de-icing at a major airport. They must have been horribly inexperienced regarding flying from high elevation airports in the winter
Here we go!
Why would you divert a longer distance, when icing? The pilots didnt check the current weather reports before take off?
Was the aircraft repaired and returned to service?
Joshua, it's been a long time since I commented. I hope your career is fruitful and you and your family are doing well. Keep us posted. Thank you for everything you have done for us, and continue to do, with this channel.
🤍👍💪
Maayong luck ug labing, maayo nga gusto!
The fatal mistake was made on the ground
It usually is...
@@Talote1983
Tricky one. Yes the correct decision not to fly, but there was only mention of brief severe icing, and even that didn’t seem to be present on the 4 hour old weather they had. For all intents and purposes most pilots in that situation would have been expecting only moderate icing, and these guys were experienced.
The King Air is actually not too bad in icing for a prop, so it must have been very severe.
This one is just unlucky.
Stale or outdated weather reports seem to be a historical weakness contributing to many accidents .
"It could not be determined why the pilots failed to obtain the current weather briefing."
Probably for the same reason they diverted to an airport much farther away from the one they'd departed, when the icing conditions certainly weren't getting any better.
"Descend and maintain 10,000. That's the best I can do right now." Rick Harrison was an air traffic controller back in the day?
It isn't the weight, it is the changing of the shape of the wing. Less lift/Loss of lift and performance.
Death.
Barbara Ray Fisher "HE" has 10,225 hrs fly time. A typo
Not a typo.
According to the NTSB report, Appendix B, under the heading "Barbara Ray Fisher": *"He* held airline transport pilot certificate No. 1196805, dated June 27, 1974, for airplane multiengine land, with a type rating in the DC-3... In addition, *he* held flight instructor certificate No. 1196805 CFI, dated August 3, 1979... *He* held a second - class medical certificate, dated January 14, 1980, with the limitation that the holder wear glasses for near and far vision while exercising the privileges of his airman certificate."
I was surprised to see *"He* has 10,225 hours of flying time" as well, to be honest.
*He* went by Ray.
From the Find-a-Grave website:
*Son* of George and Alice Fisher.
Wed Helen Enloe, 15 Oct 1949, Texas.
Children: Timothy and Linda.
Wed Carey Gordon, 14 Aug 1975, Texas.
@@ScrewFlanders-- ah, that's how he avoided the "boy named sue" syndrome.
@@roscoewhite3793thank you for this information! I kinda wondered the same.
Just wondering, did he by any chance have a brother named…
Sue?
I can hear Johnny Cash snickering right now!🤭
Back in the early 1900s, Barbara wasn't unheard of as a man's name. I've come across a couple in my lifetime.
This ol King Air will fly through anything. Wait a minute... What a shame.
The weather in March at Stapleton? Shit!
Sounds like blue balls, heavy burden
Request please 🙏:
Northwest airlink flight 5719 on December 1st 1993 in Northen Minnesota.
JS 31 in Hibbing, MN?
5:13 I believe you mean “encountered”
Poor souls,maythey all rest in peace.Turboprops or pistons with boots have never impressed me much in icing conditions,not to say they've scared the living sh. out of me."certified in known icing conditions" is just a presumption hard to define,as icing conditions include infinite variables.And we all know what happens when you fly passengers commercialy.A bad day for flying.
what was the tail number in the video? D-ICER?
"Burdened by what has been [a very cold and icy day ]"
You still use MSFS 10?
I wonder where you got that plane crash sound effect from-
Same one in every video no matter what plane or no matter what outcome of crash was.
@@franknice2308actually i need a specific audio-
@@franknice2308 the sound origin i meant.
Allec you forgot to put details in the video description.
Is Barbara a man’s name in the USA???😮
It's a woman's name in the states
Although there may be some men with that name
It's pronounced ba bra😂🎉 Kelly's heroes reference
@@patrickwatrin5093 ah ha! That makes perfect sense then…😂
@@b.t.356 wow - you’d want to have a serious and difficult conversation, a la Johnny Cash’s ‘Boy named Sue’ if that’s what your parents named you (assuming you’re a boy’).
I remember when this happened. I live close to Lufkin. Tragic.
I was face first in a pile of disco dust that day
I was in Colorado Springs when this happened. Air Force Weather...
Very sad. We didn’t understand the impacts of ice on aircraft then, as well as we do today.
Yet it still happens.
They knew about the issues of Ice back in the 40's; WTH are you talking about?
Is that really the pilots name? A male named Barbara??
Encountered.
Ouch...
It just seems like any twin turbo are terribly prone to icing. Keep that in mind everyone.
Huh? Twin turbos?
Well, that was an unfortunate name...
Isn't Barbara a female name? He captain?
Maybe flying in bad weather just isn't a good idea.
Wait Barbara is/was a he???
Well,not all female name is actually a female
@@Randomly_Browsing Yeah, Francis came to mind even before I commented. Barbara is one I haven’t seen used as unisex. Blessings
A boy named Sue?
Lear use to sit behind me at school
@@ozwogmanGotta love Johhny Cash!
Does anyone know the music that plays at the end?
Allec, these presentations would be much better if you would invest in narration software. While I like your product, I find that the Air Disasters series is more to my liking due to the narration. If I am reading, I am missing the detail of the video.
Alec took a poll a while ago and apparently captions won. I voted captions. Alec might offer narration WITH captions and those that did not like narration could turn down volume (but would lose sound effects and music).
I prefer the quiet and ambience here and Flight Channel. The topic has come up on both channels and thankfully they listen to their viewers. Most do not want narration. Lots of other channels for you to choose from if that's your thing.
Barbara was a dude?
Texans and winter are a bad combination...
The promise of good winter weather back home in Texas lured them into Colorado Icing conditions !
I'm from Lufkin Texas & most winter days were pretty decent / warm vs Colorado.
There is no man named Barbara!!!
You are sure?
According to the NTSB report, the pilot was male.
This screams complete carelessness on ATC. It appears that the pilots should have done better to check icing conditions better, but once they were in the air and realized there was a problem, atc might as well just have told the to go f themselves. “10,000 is the best I can do”? Like dumbass our plane can’t even maintain that because of the icing. The ATC person should have been charged with homicide. “Best I can do” so let me get this straight, the air traffic was so busy in the area you couldn’t do anything to get them to safety? If the air traffic was so busy, then no other plane had ice? If the air traffic was so busy, that’s probably a decent indicator that it’s safe to fly.
1
Obviously, it was a typo. Or auto corrected
There were transgender pilots in 1980? Who knew? I thought that didn't start until Obama.
Also, a German tail number in Denver? Well, that might explain the gender confusion.
The '80s would have chewed up and spit out trans agenda. This was just a was a guy with a girl's name.