This is a common misconception. We simply can't group all Japanese Jujutsu Ryuha into your above category. Fusen, Kito and Tenshin ryu all had influence on Kano's jujutsu (later to be named Judo), including ne waza. While true judo DID push in another direction, if we indeed follow your line of reasoning, then BJJ did infact refine and add technique not found in the canon of Judo.
Really? What was stolen? I didn't realize that judo had a monopoly on all ne waza? I am not sure what so many judoka have a tough time with BJJ. In fact, if you are going to talk about stolen techniques, you could say that judo was reinvented Japanese Jujutsu from various ryuha. Epic fail. It is like saying that osoto gari was invented by Kano for judo. This would be totally misguided and wrong. We SHARE techniques and different arts have DIFFERENT names for the same moves. Such as life...
NO. Look up the Anaconda and the Darce and you'll see that the arm comes in the opposite direction. They are both head and arm chokes but the set ups are different (outside arm in (darce) and inside arm out (anaconda)
All he is doing is chaining some attacks (or sweep to attack) and it really isn't as complicated as it seems. A good flow in my opinion where he naturally ends up going for the Darce.
All the time, if you roll no-gi, its essential to have the far underhook to have a decent scarf hold. Its much too easy to give the back up from a regular scarf (around the head) especiaclly when sweat is a factor. If they have the far underhook its very unlikely you'll take the back.The underhook blocks it from happening. You'd have to shrimp away then pummel inside of that underhook before you can take the back. 1)Highly unlikely unless the guy on top is sleeping. 2)The darce is there.
His position with the deep overhook on the near arm will prevent you from getting your elbow to the mat. You can get you elbow to the mat AFTER you shrimp your hips away from him. If you don't create the necessary space first, it will be very hard to get the elbow to the mat. Good question.
Its not really alot of movements,the escape itself is a basic scarf hold escape, that most Jiu Jitsu academies teach to beginners. Its the transition right to the D'arce choke that makes it diffrent. It only requires a change of hand postioning right at the end of the escape that gives you the choke.
When I get side control, I actually prefer the 3/4 north south. I put a hand on the near-side hip to prevent elbow escapes, and basically stay halfway between side control and north south. This lets me move from side to side easily. It's amazing how often I catch an arm like this.
Regarding the hold.. I think this modified Scarf Hold is not really a scarf hold, because you under hook the free opposing arm, rather than getting the scarf hold around the head. A traditional kesa is good because you're pining their head with your head and locking it tight with the scarf hold / headlock. If you do this right its really hard for them to push your head up or make space for the escape. Is the BJJ under hook modification to help shut down the cross-body throw reversal?
@kryptos7799: BJJ was "made" by a student of Kodokan Judo @MaxMortis: Just because they were developed in Judo doesn't mean they are only relevant to Judo. There are many wrestling moves that are also relevant to Judo @Submissions101: I have a lot of respect for BJJ. As I have never practiced it, I cannot give my own point of view on the principle, but I can say that some of my Judo friends have done some BJJ training, and told me of the intensity of it and the respect that they have for it.
I like Bas Rutten's modified scarf hold. I think it would make this reversal a bit harder to do. But yeah i know it's not impossible to do it if you work hard enough.
It seems like after you swing your leg over his face, you could just take his arm. I just watched Helio use this armlock yesterday from this exact position.
...I'm so confused. At the beginning of the video, you're told about his arm placement, and what his arms are preventing you from doing...then you're immediately told to do the things his arms are supposedly keeping you from doing...huh?
You are correct in what you describe is Gracie 101...very basic, but guys know its coming and defend it. Looks like this might give you another option to transition to, if nothing else your in a better position.
![CAMPปลิ้น | EP.82[1/2] แก๊ง 3 สาวเพื่อนซี้บุก CAMPปลิ้นครั้งนี้ห้ามเสียอาการ](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_6WUjXHe1TM/mqdefault.jpg)
This is a common misconception. We simply can't group all Japanese Jujutsu Ryuha into your above category. Fusen, Kito and Tenshin ryu all had influence on Kano's jujutsu (later to be named Judo), including ne waza. While true judo DID push in another direction, if we indeed follow your line of reasoning, then BJJ did infact refine and add technique not found in the canon of Judo.
Really? What was stolen? I didn't realize that judo had a monopoly on all ne waza? I am not sure what so many judoka have a tough time with BJJ. In fact, if you are going to talk about stolen techniques, you could say that judo was reinvented Japanese Jujutsu from various ryuha.
Epic fail. It is like saying that osoto gari was invented by Kano for judo. This would be totally misguided and wrong. We SHARE techniques and different arts have DIFFERENT names for the same moves. Such as life...
NO. Look up the Anaconda and the Darce and you'll see that the arm comes in the opposite direction. They are both head and arm chokes but the set ups are different (outside arm in (darce) and inside arm out (anaconda)
All he is doing is chaining some attacks (or sweep to attack) and it really isn't as complicated as it seems. A good flow in my opinion where he naturally ends up going for the Darce.
I find that good judoka, sambo and jj guys will use a modified scarf from time to time. It can be very strong too. Just a variation.
Chris is a 4th Dan in Judo as well ;-). I think he wanted to keep the name easy for us non judoka to understand ;-)
I'll let Chris answer your question....
All the time, if you roll no-gi, its essential to have the far underhook to have a decent scarf hold. Its much too easy to give the back up from a regular scarf (around the head) especiaclly when sweat is a factor.
If they have the far underhook its very unlikely you'll take the back.The underhook blocks it from happening. You'd have to shrimp away then pummel inside of that underhook before you can take the back.
1)Highly unlikely unless the guy on top is sleeping. 2)The darce is there.
His position with the deep overhook on the near arm will prevent you from getting your elbow to the mat.
You can get you elbow to the mat AFTER you shrimp your hips away from him.
If you don't create the necessary space first, it will be very hard to get the elbow to the mat.
Good question.
Its not really alot of movements,the escape itself is a basic scarf hold escape, that most Jiu Jitsu academies teach to beginners. Its the transition right to the D'arce choke that makes it diffrent. It only requires a change of hand postioning right at the end of the escape that gives you the choke.
12 years ago...Oh sh*t
When I get side control, I actually prefer the 3/4 north south. I put a hand on the near-side hip to prevent elbow escapes, and basically stay halfway between side control and north south.
This lets me move from side to side easily. It's amazing how often I catch an arm like this.
Regarding the hold.. I think this modified Scarf Hold is not really a scarf hold, because you under hook the free opposing arm, rather than getting the scarf hold around the head. A traditional kesa is good because you're pining their head with your head and locking it tight with the scarf hold / headlock. If you do this right its really hard for them to push your head up or make space for the escape.
Is the BJJ under hook modification to help shut down the cross-body throw reversal?
@kryptos7799: BJJ was "made" by a student of Kodokan Judo
@MaxMortis: Just because they were developed in Judo doesn't mean they are only relevant to Judo. There are many wrestling moves that are also relevant to Judo
@Submissions101: I have a lot of respect for BJJ. As I have never practiced it, I cannot give my own point of view on the principle, but I can say that some of my Judo friends have done some BJJ training, and told me of the intensity of it and the respect that they have for it.
I like Bas Rutten's modified scarf hold. I think it would make this reversal a bit harder to do. But yeah i know it's not impossible to do it if you work hard enough.
It seems like after you swing your leg over his face, you could just take his arm. I just watched Helio use this armlock yesterday from this exact position.
They are just Muay Thai ankle wraps...any combats sports company carrys them; combat sports internatioanl, title, ringside, etc.
...I'm so confused.
At the beginning of the video, you're told about his arm placement, and what his arms are preventing you from doing...then you're immediately told to do the things his arms are supposedly keeping you from doing...huh?
You are correct in what you describe is Gracie 101...very basic, but guys know its coming and defend it. Looks like this might give you another option to transition to, if nothing else your in a better position.
It elminates space, and also helps when you lift the elbow (thats closet to the hip)to complete the choke.
yeah you could but thats not what the video is teaching. You could also do a shoulder lock from modified scarf but thats not what theyre teaching.
Nice move, I eat the regular scarf hold for lunch. I have a little more trouble with the modified so I will try this escape out.
is that easier the faster you do it? cos it looks like a lot of things to do
hahaha! stolen!! RENAMED!! just hilarious judofan. What is judo?
you do realize it was jui jitsu then judo right?
Yes Rochester, ny.
uhhhhhhhh what? =)
Why do you look at his hips?
nice move!
how do i get involved?
Nice Video Coach!
beautiful!!!
Great vids!
BADASS