Using CA Glue to Fix a Loose Tuning Pin | HOWARD PIANO INDUSTRIES
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มิ.ย. 2024
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Using CA Glue to Fix a Loose Tuning Pin | HOWARD PIANO INDUSTRIES
This video demonstrate how to fix a loose tuning pin using CA glue.
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🎥 Video Chapters
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00:00 - Intro
00:18 - (CA) Glue - Super Thin Viscosity
00:52 - Loose Tuning Pins
03:30 - Remove Piano Action
05:06 - Cleaning Tuning Pin Area
06:30 - Putting Paper Towels
07:32 - Using CA Glue Applicator
07:46 - Applying CA Glue
⏩ Links and Resources:
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✔️INSTA-CURE Cyanoacrylate (CA) Glue - Super Thin Viscosity
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✔️Hypo Oiler Non-clogging CA Glue Applicator
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✔️Cory Grand Piano Pinblock Cleaning Brush
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Thanks! I finally understand this procedure.
Glad it helped!
Thanks!
How long should the glue set before tuning? Love your videos!!
It's super glue so it cures almost immediately. By the time you are finished treating the whole piano you can start tuning it.
I have recently found your youtube channel and as a pianotechnician myself, i have never used (or seen) this technique. I have only heard of it on the internet in various discussions and i mostly scoffed at it. However, now i see the positives of this technique. Correct me if im wrong, but you only used this technique as a last resort for a cheap low quality piano. It is fast and cheap way to improve tunning stability. In my career, if tuning pin was too loose and could not be improved by pushing it deeper in the pin block, i just replaced the old pin with a new slightly larger pin. Or pulled the old pin out and applied a little bit of pine-resin paste. But that is quite pricy procedure if applied for the whole piano. Many customers cant afford such service or the piano is just not worth it. But this AC glue technique might be a solution in those cases.
When I first heard of this technique of using CA glue on loose tuning pins about twenty years ago, I think it was just starting to be used and my impression was the same as yours. The whole idea seemed a bit ridiculous, but I had a couple customers with pianos that were never going to get restrung with larger pins or receive a new pinblock and also had pins already driven down as far as they could go in the pinblock. I had nothing to lose by trying CA glue. Twenty years later these pianos are still holding a tune! Since then this technique has become very accepted among many reputable piano technicians and you can find information on this method in Mario Igrec's highly praised book "Pianos Inside Out" In fact, I have not heard any discussion on negative effects or downside of this technique expect that you don't want to over apply the glue because the thin glue will run between the plate and pinblock, gluing them together. This is a problem only if you plan to remove the plate to rebuild the piano one day.
@@howardpianoind Thanks for the reply and book recommendation! I was trained and live in europe, so that might be a factor why i have not seen this technique during my studies. In recent years, i learned that there are differences in customs and techniques in USA compared to EU.
I find it awesome that people in our profession share their knowledge on the internet. So thank you for your work here!
The OCD part of me really didn't like seeing the coils getting saturated and the CA glue wicking up between the string and the plate. I feel like that's going to show somehow in the future, though probably not to the extent of the goopy plates where the pins have been treated with some other kind of pin block treatment. Has anybody tried using a syringe and hypodermic needle for more control, and to get the CA glue down below the bushing from the start? Or would the needle/syringe just get blocked immediately by the glue drying?
Is there a benefit to tilting the piano and applying from the bottom of the pinblock?
One last suggestion: I'd put a newspaper down to protect the keybed. Not as critical as protecting the action, but still good not to get drops of superglue on that smooth surface.
Using a syringe or needle would help, but the glue would probably still soak into the wood tuning pin bushing and be visible. There are also other ways you could fix a loose tuning pin, but this is our most favored method. In most cases, tipping the piano wouldn't be a practical solution.
I have used nylon micro tips they can be attached to the glue tip and these are drawn out to a 2 to 3 inch capillary tube. These can give you much more finite control on the glue. These are about 7$ for 200 and if the tips get a plug just snip them off a little. You can probably not even get the glue on the string loops. Also when getting more glue from your bottle use a new plastic disposable pipette so you don't contaminate the glue. We in the rc airplane model hobby do a trick using baking soda and super glue, when you add the glue drop it almost instantly hardens into a very hard substance, guitar repair technicians use this to form a new repair where the bone guitar string nut at the top of the guitar then they take a file and cut new slots for the strings to set in. I wonder what would happen if you introduce baking soda to the pin hole then put the pin back in then tune then apply the superglue, it should create a joint stronger than just super glue by itself, it maybe to strong and might not allow you to turn the tuning pin in the future. Just a thought, must experiment on a junk piano, wouldnt want to screw up a good piano - just a wild thought.
Yes, we also carry the extender tips for the CA glue at our online store. While I prefer the "hypo oiler" I do appreciate your advice of techniques in applying the CA glue. I have learned by experience that while the CA glue can be used in many different applications with very quick, efficient, and satisfactory results, it also requires careful and sometimes specific techniques when applying to get the results you want and to avoid making an inconvenient mess. The baking soda trick is also interesting.
Personally I think adding baking soda would be a poor idea. You just want to to tighten the pin hole, not cement the pin into the hole permanently. Also you still hope the wood fibers with grip the pin. My feeling is the baking soda could end up creating a slick hole that has no elasticity. This is a case where just a small drop of glue may be enough to tighten the pin by slightly saturating the wood,
Where do you get the suction applicator?
One place you can get them is at our online store "HowardPianoIndustries.com. Type in Hypo Oiler.
Thanks for this. I have done this many times myself, and yet two things have always bothered me and I wonder about your thoughts on them: 1) Since most of the time we're really applying the glue to the *tuning pin/plate BUSHINGS* .... how much of those 1- or 2 drops is actually getting thru to the pinblock?
and 2) Would there be any validity to applying the glue to UNDER-side of the pinblock? - you'd have no sign of the glue on the plate, and the glue would apply directly to the pinblock, not wasted on the bushings. Just remove the action and go at it from inside. What am I missing? As I say, I'm not arguing with the process as you've done it above, and i've done it that way lots myself - but only because that's what I was told to do! :D
Good points. The glue seems to be getting trough. As I understand it, it tends to go everywhere. It must get on the tuning pin and the bushing as you say, but also between the plate and the pinblock and in-between the tuning pin and the tuning pin hole. One explanation I have heard as to how it works is that the wetness of the glue raises the grain of the wood in the tuning pin hole and then glues it in this state as it dries. And yes, I have heard of technicians applying the glue from the underside of the pinblock, but to do this they actually flip the piano upside down so gravity is still working for them. If I thought there was some harm in getting the glue on the string coils and plate bushings I would say this would be the way to go but I don't think there is. I think the CA glue probably strengthens the wood plate bushings which often are cracked and fragile.
Hello. Does this technique work on an upright piano? Would the glue sink in or rather drip considering it is in horizontal position?
I wondered this as well!
If possible I prefer to tilt the piano on it's back with a piano tilter so that the tuning pins are in the same position as in a grand piano. If this is not possible you can apply the glue while the piano is upright if you are careful. See our video entitled "Using CA glue to repair loose tuning pins in an upright piano"
I've used CA glue to increase the torque on harpsichord pins, but the bottom coils on harpsichord pins are usually higher above the pinblock than coils on a piano are above the plate. I noticed you applied the CA glue directly onto the coils on some of the tuning pins. Is there a chance that the coils would be glued to each other or to the tuning pin?
Yes, you may be temporarily gluing the coils together and the string coil may be glued to the plate just as the tuning pin will be glued in place in the pinblock, but as soon as you turn the tuning pin these glue joints will break apart. So, this is not a problem.
@@howardpianoind Thanks for your reply.
So if I glue the upright piano ,I have to put the piano lay down in order to apply the ca glue? Thanks 🙏
If your only going to treat a couple pins you can do it with the piano in an upright position but if you are treating all the pins it would be much easier to tilt the piano on it's back.
What if the pin bushing has broken up some? Would you replace the bushing first or would CA glue do the job in that situation?
No, I would not be concerned about a broken bushing. The CA glue will still work. The bushing can't be replaced without removing the pin from the hole and you would not want to do this as it would ream out the hole and make it looser.
@@howardpianoind Thanks for the quick response!
For an upright piano should the piano be laid on its back or will the glue soak in anyway? Have you tried it?
Ideally, an upright piano should be laid on it's back with a piano tilter so that the glue has gravity helping it get in the pinblock holes. I have successfully treated a single pin on an upright without putting it on it's back so I think it is possible to do the whole piano with the piano standing up if you are careful. See our video "Using CA glue to repair loose tuning pins in an Upright Piano"
What if the coil is already on the plate. i would think the glue would glue the coil to the plate resulting in breakage. So I'm guessing this technique only work if you can avoid getting glue on the coil.
Actually, when the coil is already touching, or close to touching the plate, is the time this procedure is the most useful. The CA treatment can be used in this situation when tapping the pins further into the pinblock cannot. Getting glue on the coil does not cause a problem. Yes, you may be gluing the coils together and to the plate just as you are gluing the tuning pin in place, but as soon as you turn the pin the glue joints will break apart and if you loosen the pin enough the glued coils will break apart also.