oh this machine brings back memories. this might pain you to hear, but as a kid, my parents owned a thrift store. My dad had just purchashed like 50 of these computers from a bankruptcy auction. to flip these machines, I was tasked with ripping them apart, putting the internals into a brand new coolermaster case, and then flipping them in the thrift store as a "preowned" PC. even as a kid, I didn't like the idea of tearing apart these machines. but my dad believed they would sell quicker if they were in more modern looking cases. and he wasnt wrong... but I still hated doing it lol
These are fun little guys. I bought an old refurbished one 12 or so years ago. It was a gem of a little system and I still have it to this day though stored away.
I hope you don't mind me going off topic a bit, but there's an interesting story behind it. Even though the hard drive is from 2001, it's not original; back then, they only used IBM DeskStar drives. But this was when IBM had massive failures with certain series of their drives (which this one would've had).....they usually crashed within a month or two, and were replaced under warranty. The problem was so bad that IBM was sued, and lost; they had to reimburse each user $100 for their failed drive. The issue was that the process that bonded the magnetic particles to the disc was faulty; this allowed those particles to be flung all over the inside, causing head crashes. I'm glad you brought this beauty back to it's former glory
I was aware of the Deathstar series :) however I just assumed that die to the amount of failures they switched over to a different brand for this model. Also where it has the original oem software, partitions etc - even more reason I thought that. It is possible that the IT team had duplicated the drive.... Yes - extremely happy about this system being fully operational again!
Don't forget to create the recovery CD/DVD so in the event hard disk fail, you can later on reinstall back the Windows to the new drive (IDE hard disk or SSD using SATA to IDE converter/PCI SATA Card)
I have a full image of the drive. I plan on creating rectory media - hoping the system has the application to do so. Worse case, I do that the complete drive image.
@@TheRetroRecall Hi there, did you have a chance to image the whole hard drive with the recovery partition? I got the same machine today but it doesn't have a hard drive, so I planned to re-image the whole disk with a factory image. I really appreciate your help. 🙏
By the mid-2000s (after Windows XP), some PC manufacturers stopped shipping PCs with a recovery CD but instead put a recovery partition on the hard drive
It would be cool to put crystaldiskinfo or hdsentinel on it to see how many power on hours it got. Since it runs on the factory hard drive,the whole computer will have the same amount of reported power on hours
This si SOOO COOL! I used to have this kind of machines back when I was in middle-school and high-school. I gained A LOT of experience using these computers.
I love seing Windows 2000. I used to work at a private school here in the UK, and I was responsible for upgrading all of the workstations from Windows NT4 Workstation to Windows 2000. It got to the stage where I had installed it so many times that I remembered the CD-Key, and could install it blindfolded. I miss the days of simple and quick Windows installations/upgrades.
@@TheRetroRecall I think XP was the last of the great operating systems, kinda the best of Windows 98SE and 2000, and not a pain to install unlike Vista onwards. I discovered your channel a few days ago, so having a bit of a binge watching your older videos. Do you ever get old retro servers? I have an old Dell PowerEdge SC1430 that ran Server 2003, but now runs Fedora server.
Just repaired an Asrock M266A board. Had to replace a few capacitors and a new BIOS battery. Everything else operation and tested it under Windows 98 and XP installations. I really want to invest in a solder sucker pump tool
They make the world of difference. I have the Hakko FR-301. Works very well and is decently priced. That and a little solder braid will help the day :)
I am from South Africa, everything here is way more expensive than for the people up north. Importing the Hakko will be around R6500 in my currency, just under $340 and then I would probably have to pay the import duties. We have a locally branded de-soldering station but it is also around R7000, that is about $360US. I do de-soldering components maybe 6 times a year. Before I spend that cash on these suckers, I would rather spend my cash on one of those 4K electronics repair camera stations, the are about same price range.@@TheRetroRecall
Thank you of your video once again, you are doing good and interesting retrosystem videos so keep up the good work. I suggest you use legacy update tool to get latest available updates for windows 2000
According to our most trusted and complete knowledge website: The Nvidia Vanta is a budget version of the TNT chip with a lower clock speed, half the memory bus width(64-bit) and memory size. Build out of normal TNT dies that did not meet specifications. And of course rather popular with OEM's. Not great for 3d gaming but good enough for 2D work.
@@clankg33k A Vanta is in an nutshell an slower clocked TNT2 M64 with slower SDRAM. Out of the top of my head 120 to 100 MHz on the core and 143 to 125 on the RAM. The Vanta LT was even lower clocked 80/100 MHz or something like that. At least thats what there should be clocked at. Back then Nvidia wasn't as powerful as today so basiclly every AIB clocked the chips to their liking. Another problem was that Vanta cards were sometimes falsely advertised as TNT2 M64 or TNT2 Vanta or plain TNT2 cause TNT2 would better sell OEM builds. And that Nvidia introduced an NV5 die shrink in 220nm for Pro and Ultra versions did add even more to the confusion cause Nvidia refer these sometimes as NV6 and sometimes as NV5 and after that everything slower than the TNT2 Pro could be an NV5 or NV6 chip as well. So some people assumed NV6 the chip of the Vanta which is true and false at the same time. You can't tell without disassembling the chip package down to the silicon cause they didn't change the markings.
What a looker. I've got the cream version. These are fairly upgradable in terms of CPU, I think i have a 2.4 and a Geforce 2 MX in mine, though the SDR memory really hampers it
Nice to see it run it again. What would you use it for? I remember that some old pc were kept runing to run specific tools that won run on modern windows like in w98 and xp sp2. I made run yesterday a senpron 1.6 with a Linux called q4os. It runs well and even with only 1gb I can watch TH-cam and use Twitter just not at the same time. Tiny core and antix are also recommended.
Not exactly sure just yet. For now I love restoring these systems and bringing that to the channel for everyone to enjoy. Eventually I may end up selling everything or donating, we will see what the future holds. For this exact system, I have a black ibm crt, keyboard and mouse all matching. Would be great to upgrade just a little but and play some era specific games on there :)
Thanks for the video! I have a very similar NetVista with Pentium 4 but with Windows XP (original hardware and software). Thought also about restoring it, since it still works perfectly fine!
My Netvista also 2001 comes with Windows XP even when it is was running in a Compatibility mode. Becourse the Bios do not Supported XP. After A Vios Update the problem was gone. And Windows XP runns 100% well.
I saw one very similar to this one at the local thrift store. It shows XP w/ Pentium 4, and a Dvd drive. She has it marked at $50. If it sits there for awhile I might get it for $30. On a side note, they have a couple of HP laptops with floppy drive. I've never seen one of those. They are in a soft case, so I imagine they were for salesmen. I looked it up on ebay, and the prices are high. Are these really a valuable item?
Well, I guess it all depends on what people are willing to pay. EBay prices for retro (or older) systems have gotten out of control, which is a shame as it becomes a hurdle for those wanting to get into retro computing.
I'm sure that P4 runs W2K very well, b\c back in 2000 I built a W2K box of K6-2 550MHz and 384 megs of ram and it even ran W2K well. Also that is a very nice computer from that era. ... Even though P4(s) below 2.0GHz ran W2K well, if they were upgraded to XP they did not. For XP you needed a P4 of at least 2.5 GHz to run it well. And certainly not a socket 478 or 775 Celeron OMG, I worked on so many of those XP dogs back in the day.
I had a ThinkCentre M52 which has a very similar design. It was a bit newer and had a P4, but sadly it suddenly got a bad case of capacitor plague after sitting dormant for a couple of years. I really loved the design of the case, but it wasn't worth salvaging. It had a noisy fan system and only one low profile PCI slot for expansion, which didn't give it the graphics card it needed for some decent Windows XP gaming.
@The_Rebel934 What kept me from it was that it was incompatible with Windows 98. It didn't have the graphics capabilities to run any AAA game in Windows XP, so despite it's great looks, it wasn't worth saving.
I have just got one of these beige versions with Windows 2000 Pro installed but no recovery partition. Did you successfully build a copy of the recovery cd's?
I posted a reply, not sure what happened. I took an image of the drive in its current state after the restoration. The image has two (maybe 3) partitions. I think it's 9gb. Happy to upload the image - you can restore using macrum reflect.
im not so sure, but I think after windows xp you dont need the cd audio cable anymore... sound goes through the ide cable... i think in win 95 98 you needed the cable
@@TheRetroRecall yes.. even if its new today it has the port... but I think new OSs software grab the music in 'data mode', not in in normal 'cd player' mode. but if you press play on the front of the drive i think you must have the cable always..
hi nice video i remember this 2001 i was 6 my father brough home same netvista m41 first p4 pc in home :D but voodoo 5 5500 vga in not nivida vanta and what type geforce card this vanta? this skiping my life
Thanks and a voodoo in this would be pretty great!! The vanta was a low level card as this system was primarily used in a business environment. Vanta = scaled down TNT2
@@TheRetroRecalli had it maxed out to 4gb of ram and had bought a radeon AGP video card for it but cant quite remember the amount of ram it had . Had an ide dvd burner installed on it. I thing it was an LG burner.
But, what happens if you upgrade windows 2000 up to WindowsME, Windows XP, Windows Longhorn, windows Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows 8.1, Windows 10 And lastly for Windows 11...!! Using these PC old from IBM, after restored!! 🤔
In my head, I've been calling this video idea "Vista on Vista violence," "Vistaception," or "The Vista Paradox" When I said all those video title ideas to myself, they all sounded hilariously funny.
oh this machine brings back memories. this might pain you to hear, but as a kid, my parents owned a thrift store. My dad had just purchashed like 50 of these computers from a bankruptcy auction. to flip these machines, I was tasked with ripping them apart, putting the internals into a brand new coolermaster case, and then flipping them in the thrift store as a "preowned" PC. even as a kid, I didn't like the idea of tearing apart these machines. but my dad believed they would sell quicker if they were in more modern looking cases. and he wasnt wrong... but I still hated doing it lol
Definitely pains me but I totally get it. It would have been more painful if you told me that you had tossed a bunch of retro systems to ewaste :)
These are fun little guys. I bought an old refurbished one 12 or so years ago. It was a gem of a little system and I still have it to this day though stored away.
Nice!! Dig it out, get that beauty running again! :)
I loved Windows 2000, it was one of my favourite eras. I remember playing the heck out of Quake 3 on my 2K machine!
Windows 2000 was a great OS. It had the best of Windows 98se while being based on NT and set the stage for XP!
I hope you don't mind me going off topic a bit, but there's an interesting story behind it. Even though the hard drive is from 2001, it's not original; back then, they only used IBM DeskStar drives. But this was when IBM had massive failures with certain series of their drives (which this one would've had).....they usually crashed within a month or two, and were replaced under warranty. The problem was so bad that IBM was sued, and lost; they had to reimburse each user $100 for their failed drive. The issue was that the process that bonded the magnetic particles to the disc was faulty; this allowed those particles to be flung all over the inside, causing head crashes. I'm glad you brought this beauty back to it's former glory
I was aware of the Deathstar series :) however I just assumed that die to the amount of failures they switched over to a different brand for this model. Also where it has the original oem software, partitions etc - even more reason I thought that. It is possible that the IT team had duplicated the drive....
Yes - extremely happy about this system being fully operational again!
Don't forget to create the recovery CD/DVD so in the event hard disk fail, you can later on reinstall back the Windows to the new drive (IDE hard disk or SSD using SATA to IDE converter/PCI SATA Card)
I have a full image of the drive. I plan on creating rectory media - hoping the system has the application to do so. Worse case, I do that the complete drive image.
@@TheRetroRecall Hi there, did you have a chance to image the whole hard drive with the recovery partition? I got the same machine today but it doesn't have a hard drive, so I planned to re-image the whole disk with a factory image. I really appreciate your help. 🙏
Hey there, to be honest I have not had a chance yet. Sorry about that. I have added it to my list. :)
@@TheRetroRecall No rush at all, thank you 👍🏻
By the mid-2000s (after Windows XP), some PC manufacturers stopped shipping PCs with a recovery CD but instead put a recovery partition on the hard drive
As in this case. Fortunately I was able to recover the system and take an image :)
It would be cool to put crystaldiskinfo or hdsentinel on it to see how many power on hours it got. Since it runs on the factory hard drive,the whole computer will have the same amount of reported power on hours
That's a cool idea!
Thanx for the video. Used to love working on these old systems except for the IDE jumpers and the cabling system. Windows 2000 SP4 was a great OS.
You're welcome and completely agree! Sata was a nice change.
This si SOOO COOL! I used to have this kind of machines back when I was in middle-school and high-school. I gained A LOT of experience using these computers.
Awesome!!! Yeah I think we had the beige ones just before this in school and eventually these. IBMs from this era were just work horses.
Totally and love the P3 versions!!!
I love seing Windows 2000. I used to work at a private school here in the UK, and I was responsible for upgrading all of the workstations from Windows NT4 Workstation to Windows 2000. It got to the stage where I had installed it so many times that I remembered the CD-Key, and could install it blindfolded. I miss the days of simple and quick Windows installations/upgrades.
Haha yes!! The same can be said about gaming as well. Everything is complicated, takes a long time and is dlc based.
@@TheRetroRecall I think XP was the last of the great operating systems, kinda the best of Windows 98SE and 2000, and not a pain to install unlike Vista onwards. I discovered your channel a few days ago, so having a bit of a binge watching your older videos. Do you ever get old retro servers? I have an old Dell PowerEdge SC1430 that ran Server 2003, but now runs Fedora server.
Welcome aboard, great to have you. Older servers are not 100 on the agenda, however if I come accross one.. I will definitely do a video on it :)
Just repaired an Asrock M266A board. Had to replace a few capacitors and a new BIOS battery. Everything else operation and tested it under Windows 98 and XP installations. I really want to invest in a solder sucker pump tool
They make the world of difference. I have the Hakko FR-301. Works very well and is decently priced. That and a little solder braid will help the day :)
I am from South Africa, everything here is way more expensive than for the people up north. Importing the Hakko will be around R6500 in my currency, just under $340 and then I would probably have to pay the import duties. We have a locally branded de-soldering station but it is also around R7000, that is about $360US. I do de-soldering components maybe 6 times a year. Before I spend that cash on these suckers, I would rather spend my cash on one of those 4K electronics repair camera stations, the are about same price range.@@TheRetroRecall
nice work, Win2K was a solid OS upgrade over NT4... and this is a pretty high-end system for it :)
Agreed, and it's IBM, so I'm a bit bias lol.
I always loved this IBM case
Built so well and really streamlined, yet functional. It's like a tank.
Awesome video! Absolutely loving your channel, buddy. ☺️
Thank you!!!
I will check out yours as well!
Thank you of your video once again, you are doing good and interesting retrosystem videos so keep up the good work.
I suggest you use legacy update tool to get latest available updates for windows 2000
Thank you and thank you for supporting the channel! Great suggestion - I have heard great things about legacy update.
According to our most trusted and complete knowledge website:
The Nvidia Vanta is a budget version of the TNT chip with a lower clock speed, half the memory bus width(64-bit) and memory size. Build out of normal TNT dies that did not meet specifications.
And of course rather popular with OEM's.
Not great for 3d gaming but good enough for 2D work.
Most trusted and complete knowledge website.... I'm dying over here ahhahaha
Vanta = TNT2 M64 ?
@@clankg33k A Vanta is in an nutshell an slower clocked TNT2 M64 with slower SDRAM. Out of the top of my head 120 to 100 MHz on the core and 143 to 125 on the RAM.
The Vanta LT was even lower clocked 80/100 MHz or something like that. At least thats what there should be clocked at. Back then Nvidia wasn't as powerful as today so basiclly every AIB clocked the chips to their liking. Another problem was that Vanta cards were sometimes falsely advertised as TNT2 M64 or TNT2 Vanta or plain TNT2 cause TNT2 would better sell OEM builds.
And that Nvidia introduced an NV5 die shrink in 220nm for Pro and Ultra versions did add even more to the confusion cause Nvidia refer these sometimes as NV6 and sometimes as NV5 and after that everything slower than the TNT2 Pro could be an NV5 or NV6 chip as well. So some people assumed NV6 the chip of the Vanta which is true and false at the same time. You can't tell without disassembling the chip package down to the silicon cause they didn't change the markings.
Love this in depth info, thank you!
What a looker. I've got the cream version. These are fairly upgradable in terms of CPU, I think i have a 2.4 and a Geforce 2 MX in mine, though the SDR memory really hampers it
For sure but to think you can even upgrade it that much - definitely opens up some extra fun!!
Scrubbed up real nice (figuratively & literally!). Keep it up man! 😉
Thanks!!!
Nice to see it run it again. What would you use it for? I remember that some old pc were kept runing to run specific tools that won run on modern windows like in w98 and xp sp2. I made run yesterday a senpron 1.6 with a Linux called q4os. It runs well and even with only 1gb I can watch TH-cam and use Twitter just not at the same time. Tiny core and antix are also recommended.
Not exactly sure just yet. For now I love restoring these systems and bringing that to the channel for everyone to enjoy. Eventually I may end up selling everything or donating, we will see what the future holds. For this exact system, I have a black ibm crt, keyboard and mouse all matching. Would be great to upgrade just a little but and play some era specific games on there :)
I need this show like I need coffie in the morning! TY!
Your welcome!!! Coffee + TheRetroRecall = awesome lol!
Thanks for the video! I have a very similar NetVista with Pentium 4 but with Windows XP (original hardware and software). Thought also about restoring it, since it still works perfectly fine!
Thanks for sharing and Save that IBM haha... Keep it going!
My Netvista also 2001 comes with Windows XP even when it is was running in a Compatibility mode. Becourse the Bios do not Supported XP. After A Vios Update the problem was gone. And Windows XP runns 100% well.
Awesome!!! I didn't know that, thanks for sharing!
I saw one very similar to this one at the local thrift store. It shows XP w/ Pentium 4, and a Dvd drive. She has it marked at $50. If it sits there for awhile I might get it for $30. On a side note, they have a couple of HP laptops with floppy drive. I've never seen one of those. They are in a soft case, so I imagine they were for salesmen. I looked it up on ebay, and the prices are high. Are these really a valuable item?
Well, I guess it all depends on what people are willing to pay. EBay prices for retro (or older) systems have gotten out of control, which is a shame as it becomes a hurdle for those wanting to get into retro computing.
You know, I still have a couple of the optical drives that came out of these systems.
Awesome!!!!
Vanta is a cut-down version of TNT2. I have the same card on my collection, needs recapping though as it crashes on 3D. :(
If you are handy with soldering, the caps are readily available online :)
I'm sure that P4 runs W2K very well, b\c back in 2000 I built a W2K box of K6-2 550MHz and 384 megs of ram and it even ran W2K well. Also that is a very nice computer from that era. ... Even though P4(s) below 2.0GHz ran W2K well, if they were upgraded to XP they did not. For XP you needed a P4 of at least 2.5 GHz to run it well. And certainly not a socket 478 or 775 Celeron OMG, I worked on so many of those XP dogs back in the day.
Thanks for sharing this! This system runs quite well. I can see though for XP that you would definitely need so extra horsepower :)
I had a ThinkCentre M52 which has a very similar design. It was a bit newer and had a P4, but sadly it suddenly got a bad case of capacitor plague after sitting dormant for a couple of years. I really loved the design of the case, but it wasn't worth salvaging. It had a noisy fan system and only one low profile PCI slot for expansion, which didn't give it the graphics card it needed for some decent Windows XP gaming.
Sad face for sure. I remember those configurations. The thing about IBM they had quite a few different configs for this same design.
Yrah, I hate hearing about those systems that die as a result of that.. It's a shame really.
@The_Rebel934 What kept me from it was that it was incompatible with Windows 98. It didn't have the graphics capabilities to run any AAA game in Windows XP, so despite it's great looks, it wasn't worth saving.
It looks much better now!👍👍
So much better!!
@@TheRetroRecall Is it possible to upgrade the processor?
Yes! I will look into that and a GPU upgrade :)
Later would be interesting to make max CPU and ram upgrade and better AGP card!!Also check if there is bios update.
Great suggestions!!
I have just got one of these beige versions with Windows 2000 Pro installed but no recovery partition. Did you successfully build a copy of the recovery cd's?
Not yet, it's on my to do list which is quite large haha. But when I do, I'll upload them to archive.
@@TheRetroRecall thankyou. It's a great machine and would be great to get a factory install on it.
For sure!
I wish you used a DVD-Rom drive.
Why is that? I mean it's an easy change over, but the same could be said for a dvdrw drive, etc. Always another option :)
Can you clone the recovery partition and upload it to Google Drive?
I posted a reply, not sure what happened. I took an image of the drive in its current state after the restoration. The image has two (maybe 3) partitions. I think it's 9gb. Happy to upload the image - you can restore using macrum reflect.
@@TheRetroRecall Please do, thanks!
This IBM NetVista from 2001can reuse as Personal NAS for e-waste :)
I need to ask, why so many NAS Recommendations lol.
Great video
Thank you and thanks for watching!
@@TheRetroRecall thanks
I saw this similar video from Clint (Lazy Games Review) too.
Cool. I don't recall if I saw the video. I do videos as the hardware comes in :). This was part of the large ewaste mega haul I did a video on.
im not so sure, but I think after windows xp you dont need the cd audio cable anymore... sound goes through the ide cable... i think in win 95 98 you needed the cable
I think for Windows 2000 it would still be required. Funny how a lot of drives manufactured after XP still has the port on the back:)
@@TheRetroRecall yes.. even if its new today it has the port... but I think new OSs software grab the music in 'data mode', not in in normal 'cd player' mode.
but if you press play on the front of the drive i think you must have the cable always..
Ahhh nostalgia. I remember when we got our first cdrom in our 486. 4x Creative drive. Playing cd's was so awesome.
@@TheRetroRecall i had an amd 486 dx2 66mhz. 2x sony cd rom.. no sound card, no musica.. sound card came later
hi nice video i remember this 2001 i was 6 my father brough home same netvista m41 first p4 pc in home :D but voodoo 5 5500 vga in not nivida vanta and what type geforce card this vanta? this skiping my life
Thanks and a voodoo in this would be pretty great!! The vanta was a low level card as this system was primarily used in a business environment. Vanta = scaled down TNT2
You can install legacy updates.
I definitely will be doing that.
The cd-rom cable is only needed for 9x systems
Or 3.1 :)
and i good remember this pc 1.5gb ram a max yeah?
I believe 1.5 would be max supported yes.
Always had bad luck with seagate hard drives
I have been lucky... I find recently my collection of Maxtor HDDs are giving up.
Wow, this was my second pc 😂😂
Awesome!!
@@TheRetroRecalli had it maxed out to 4gb of ram and had bought a radeon AGP video card for it but cant quite remember the amount of ram it had . Had an ide dvd burner installed on it. I thing it was an LG burner.
@@TheRetroRecall mine was a little bit later revision and had ddr1 ram.
Yes, it's one of those things - they kept the case design for quite a while. So many variations.
@@TheRetroRecall yeah, even when the brand switched to lenovo they kept the design for a few more years.
The thing looks like a small VCR at first glance.
Haha very true.
But, what happens if you upgrade windows 2000 up to WindowsME, Windows XP, Windows Longhorn, windows Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows 8.1, Windows 10 And lastly for Windows 11...!!
Using these PC old from IBM, after restored!! 🤔
An upgrade-a-thon?! Oh now there's an idea.
Help I have a couple of these at my dad’s company that are just sitting around waiting to be used
Get them, save them quick!
I have this but i not find drivers? Where you download drivers?
You will need to google the model and search. Ibm still has the drivers online.
@@TheRetroRecall I watch ibm sitr but I not can download because "this is FTP link" error.
Hmmm try archive.org?
no sata on this mboard.
None.
Can the NetVISTA run Windows VISTA?
Hahaha you have a thing for Vista lol! I will do a complete Vista video for you.
@@TheRetroRecalllol thank you
In my head, I've been calling this video idea "Vista on Vista violence," "Vistaception," or "The Vista Paradox" When I said all those video title ideas to myself, they all sounded hilariously funny.
Lol!!! Maybe I'll steal that for the title of the video haha.
@@TheRetroRecallBoy, I can't wait to see this video idea in action and what the results from this experiment will be like!
Did the floppy/cdrom drives even work? You never tried them. well not on video.
They did! The video was getting quite long (2-3 hours of footage), figured that's one area I could cut :). Next time I'll make sure I include it.
@@TheRetroRecall Thanks for the reply. I'm glad they worked. These older systems needs some love too every once in a while.
100%!
Try upgrading to Windows 7
Oh my.. I think it would be quite bogged down. Maybe with more memory... But even still. Win2k is so awesome!!
Vanta - cheaper, cut down version of TNT2
I suppose the OEM's did everything they could to reduce costs.
dunno if this is LGR
I am not LGR - although he is amazing! I'll take it as a compliment :)
Ahhh.. IBM.. before it went full CCP.
CCP? (I'm afraid to ask lol)
Chinese Communist Party!! lol @@TheRetroRecall
Hahaha oh my.
@@mackjsm7105 Oh come on,business and gaming grade Lenovo stuff is still good and the Thinkpads and Thinkcentres kept the IBM look to them