Jesus bill, now I gotta call MY customers too! Thank you not only for helping 6.0 owners BUT for helping us 6.0 MECHANICS. Your a godsend. God bless you bill.
I just drove my truck from California to Buford to get it Dealer proof. I towed my travel trailer there as well, I wanted to see what difference it would make getting the dealer proof done. It was night and day, the truck tow way better and smoother specially now with the new tuning modes. Before going up a small hills it would struggle and downshifted. Now it just cruises up hills no sweat. To bad I didn't get to meet Bill when I was there as he was out of town enjoying Mardi Gra in new Orleans. All I got to say is that I am really happy the way the truck runs now and the service. I will be taking a trip to Alaska in the summer and I am confident the truck will do great. Keep up the good work Bill and shout out to Scott. :-)
powerstrokehelp I bulletproofed my 6.0 about a month ago. Told the machine shop to take no more than 6 thousandths off. They said it was out of spec by 2 thousandths and they took three thousands off each side. Should I be ok?
powerstrokehelp ...uuffff.... That's a relief..... Thanks...4 years after you guys did my van... And still running like a champ (minus the oem FICM that took a 💩... Now running the "bulletproof Diesel 6 face 53v)
How can it happen to stock motors that haven't had a head gasket job? In other words, no loss of metal due to machining means no reason for shorter push rods. Please clarify when you can.
powerstrokehelp my Excursion I bought from you guys is running smooth as a sewing machine. 260k miles and it’s like new. I’ll buy another and save $50k again!!
Another great video thank you I really wish there was someone like bill with the pride that he puts in it that works on duramax motors thank you so much bill god bless
Glad you made this video. When you showed this truck and said it was 1 that you guys worked on it kind of freaked me out. Because I was all set to buy a truck from you then it was like why the he'll did the cam go out. Thanks for the explanation my concerns have been alleviated. You will be hearing from me soon.
I built my 6.0 the way Bill suggests, new pushrods, ford rings, headsets, ARP studs heads and mains and rods, titanium exhaust studs, new high pressure oil pump, warren fuel injectors”better warranty”, $10,000 in parts and such! His engines are a deal at $15-16,000 installed! But I did not have the money up front, built it over 13 months. Get a loan and let Bill do it and get his warranty! Education is costly, I know!
Bill, what you need to do is on your next "dealerproofing" is install the factory pushrods with some cheap piano-wire checking springs from McMaster or something of the same size as the stock valvesprings. Then observe how the valvetrain moves as the motor is turned over. I suspect theres not enough travel in the system to accommodate the Ford pushrod with decked heads. Should be easy to see. The rocker will get stiff as hell towards the top of the lobe. Something I check during motor builds, just to make sure I don't get any nasty surprises. Also a reason why I buy new factory head castings for stockers if they are available. Just makes life easier as I don't have to worry about altering things as much. Not an option here, so this check becomes almost mandatory, even with the new pushrods.Edit: with factory lifters you will also need to swap the spring out in a junk OEM lifter so it will actually allow the plunger to move and take up "lash" with the checker springs, FWIW.
And if your only decking .007" max, then that really indicates something is right on the edge if they're shitting the bed after that with the original pushrods.
I have a question or two or more. I have a nice 04 Excursion, just coming up on 88K. Guy I bought it from had alot of the updates done. Bulletproof EGR cooler, ARP studs, Super Chips tuner, updated FICM, external oil cooler, Amsoil bypass filter, and more. He was really anal about keeping the truck in excellent repair by changing all the fluids when they needed it. Coolant, trans, diff, and transfer case. New head gaskets at 43 K just because he wanted it checked out, no issues at the time. I'm going to put a coolant filter on it. I'd like your thoughts on a 4 inch exhaust with a free flowing muffler to breath better and maybe help with EGT's when pulling my 800 pound camper. Also, should I eliminate the cat? Would it be a problem as far as back pressure issues or throwing a code or 2? I'm also going to start using Amsoil in the motor, you think that's a good thing? I'm the second owner and I have all the receipts from the guy I got it from when ever he had it serviced. I watch all your videos and figure your the right guys to get answers from when it comes to Powerstrokes. Thanks for any advice you can give me and keep up the great work, we can learn alot on this channel.
I was under the assumption that you can't even get the "longer" rods from Ford. All of the rods for the 6.0/6.4 are .050 shorter than the rods that went in the engines from factory. Ford made the change without sending a service bulletin on it. They knew the stock rods were causing too much pre-load pressure on the lifters causing rocker/lifter failure. You couple an already too long rod with a machined shorter head and this video is what you get. Ford should have issued a nation wide recall on this but I suppose the head bolt issue was enough.
interesting; my gut tells me the real problem is one small lifter supporting two valve springs (lots of force); contributing factors would probably be leaky lifters that bleed down overnight; every high mileage gas engine I've every had made valve train noise on cold starts for 10-15 seconds before the lifters primed up - makes me wonder what double the force (two valve springs) would do to the cam lobes. I'm not sure if you could hear valve train noise on a diesel. If I was pulling the heads, I'd be installing fresh lifters. Yes, shorter pushrods would give you less lifter preload, and increased lifter compression distance before bottoming out (due to leaking lifters on cold start). Won't hurt to install them as long as there is some lifter preload and rocker arm geometry is not adversely affected. Ford is just as culpable as Navastar.
I have been looking for a 2005-07 6.0 and have been watching many of your posts. Because of this I have been concentrating on finding one that is studded. After watching this, I am concerned that the longer push rods are a larger danger than the head gasket issue. I have seen many 2006 and 2007 trucks claiming no head gasket issues with the factory bolts. Which would you suggest?
To those watching the video, the problem is three factors. 1st and foremost, the lifter is already overloaded with that weight of the drive train at *high rpm*. Second, the pushrods being too long initially, as well as even that much longer when you shave the cylinder heads down... Well it exasperated the problem. Reading the comments is painful. This video explains this in great detail.
Hey if you get brand new Ford heads on there is it still a good possibility of failure if the push rods wernt changed? Is it always a good idea to just put the 6.4 push rods in or just if you're gonna turn it up for a little extra power.. Im new to the diesel game. Thanks.
Hey Bill, what signs did the truck give you that this failure was occurring. It appears you managed to save this truck before full blown catastrophe, so what pointed you to pull te camshaft out?
Hey Bill was wondering about lifters on my 2006. Did my Bullet Proofing on mine at 81,000 Miles, at that time i also replaced my Push Rods Also with upgraded RCD Chromemoly Push Rods, New updated length. Since i did this at 81,000 Miles will it prevent lifter failure ? Bought Truck New, Always changed oil and filter every 4,000 Miles like clockwork. The reason all the Bullet Proofing, O-Ringed Heads was because the EGR Cooler Failed. Also did some Mild Performance Upgrades all at the same time. But i didn't Upgrade the Cam and Lifters, probably will in the Future. If i start noticing any signs of Lifter Failure. Truck currently has just under 88,000 Miles. I just don't wanna start sending any metal lifter debris through my Low Mileage Engine. Just hoping by changing the Push-rods, i prevented that from happening ? Or is it eventually gonna happen anyways ?
Hasn't the slightly shortened push rod been discussed in a previous video? Can't recall the exact video at the moment, but you have discussed the change in VTG due to machining the heads and, hence, the necessity of the shortened push rods. Just curious.
Bought a 6.0 X from buds diesel, 4 months & 2k in needed a new cam. Bud honored the work & threw in a new cam. Is this a problem thats going to happen again unless 6.4 pushrods are installed?
Hello sir I watched all your video but you said they stopped making the 7.3 in 2002 but see some 2003 in 7.3 are they different I'm about to buy one but I wanted your professional advice and thank you in advance
Bill, have the trucks you’ve sold recently include this upgrade? I bought mine from you in Sep 1st of last year (2017). Not sure of the date you started incorporating this.
I had an incident this week. A trash talker in a chevy silverado with a built gas engine was dogging me for about 100km. Generally, I don't get involved in this sort of competition, and I just moved out of the fast lane and let him go. Well, he was ahead of me at the bottom of the mountain. He moved into the slow lane, and stepped on the gas. I stayed in the fast lane and stepped on the gas of my upgraded 6.0 ford. It wasn't even close. He was so embarrassed that he pulled over at the brake check. I didn't even put full throttle into it. I love my 6.0.
I've seen the same problem in the DT 466 EGR engine to the maxxforce DT. What is your recommendation for a fix on a DT. We change the oil ever 10k miles and we run the over head every 70k miles
I have seen cam/roller lifters worn like that on other engines over the past 8 years. 3 2009+ 5.7l Hemi, 1 3800 v6 GM, 1 4.7l Dodge, 2 3900 v6 Chevys. All Police cars with heavy idle hours.
I have a bit of difficulty with your root cause analysis. Ok, the lifter collapsing and beating up the camshaft would be due to lifter bleed down. This would be something to expect in an old worn lifter (exactly what you're describing with this engine). A longer pushrod will not cause lifter failure on it's own, it will preload the lifter too much, which possibly is leading to premature lifter bleedown. Those pushrods looked to be a good .080" shorter than the original 6.0 pushrods, you know as well as I do that .080" is a huge change in pushrod length. If a pushrod that much shorter will actually reach zero lash, then there was WAYYY too much preload to begin with. I agree that using the same lifter as a 7.3, with much heavier valvetrain, is not a recipe for longevity, however I disagree that a longer pushrod is the sole cause for the lifter bleed down -- those lifters were plumb wore out. Perhaps the longer pushrod lead the lifters to have a shorter lifespan.
Its not collapsing. The valve train is binding from the pushrod being too long. At that point, everything is at the limits of its travel and only the flexing in the rocker arms will allow it to continue up the cam lobe. Bottom line is ford fucked up. A pushrod that's a little too long without binding will just produce odd wear patterns on the valve stem because the arc of the rocker is off. Factory ones are about 80 lbs. ea on the seat. Decent for a dinky factory roller, but not huge, and the spring rate of those things is pants, so the .080 will not drive up the preload on the seat that much. And since the truck ran *WITHOUT* any sort of skip (presumably), then the lifters were not bottomed out. Total travel of those lifters is about .200" from my experience, so they can tolerate quite a lot of variance.
Another thing that would do it is valve-float as well. If theyre close to the edge and the lifters start to pump up towards the top of the power band, then that will f' things up as well. The factories are ground to tolerances ~1/10,000 of an inch, so they take AGES to bleed down if they pump up.
EFormance Engineering sorry but any diesel engine that is having these kinds of issues at any less than 500,000 miles is a royal piece of shit. There is a reason almost every heavy truck on the road, that is actually DESIGNED FOR HEAVY LOADS AND ACTUAL PULLING, has an inline 6. Lighter, more efficient, less complicated, cheaper to repair and maintain, none of this silly bullshit about pushrods, and lifter lengths and clearances to this degree...
@@fadingbeleifs All true. Unfortunately for all of us in the pickup market, that superior design is not available in what is otherwise the best built (1 ton or less) pickup truck. IMO, of course.
Bill you seem to be contradicting yourself a bit. You mention that these camshaft failures are caused by a change in valve train geometry when you have your head gaskets replaced. You said the same happens with stock engines that havent had any work done to them? can you clarify?
if the lifters get gunk in them and won't fully depress it causes this what he said was 'if you don't change it to the new rods and lifters when you change the head gaskets ' not that it's caused by the work being done but by the OEM design when it was built (new OEM parts are not even the same number as factory installed)
This just happened to my friend. He spent $6500 getting it Bulletproofed. They had to resurface the heads. They didn't replace the push rods. 30,000 miles later he had a slight miss which turned into metal in the oil and a destroyed camshaft. He is selling the truck with a bad engine.
Id imagine its an issue that turns up in all motors, probably takes longer in an untouched engine though. If Ford doesn't even sell the longer pushrods anymore, id take that as a sure sign it effects them all.
I'm a little slow. Am I hearing that this is only a problem if the heads have been done or am I looking forward to this in my 2006 6 liter that has never had a top end rebuild?
It'll still likely happen on a stock motor, but will probably take longer. Take it up to Bill, have it dealerproofed, you should be good for another dozen years, EZ!
So the big question here would be, why does Ford Motor Company , not just bring in bill on their next engine design or the latest ones and say Bill what do you think about this or that. And why the hell they don't put a Mishimoto type Radiator in from factory is beyond me. Just ruins the the trucks reputation by cheaping out on plastic garbage and ruining a lot of peoples day when it goes south.
It prevents it from happening. You see, when you blow a head gasket you pretty much always warp the deck surface of the head. In order to correct that you have a machine shop shave a layer off of it. This creates the truly flat and straight surface needed to allow the cylinder to seal up properly however it now gets the valvetrain closer to the cam by that same amount. So if the pushrods that came with it were made for the original thickness and you now reduce that dimension it means the pushrods must be shorter by the same amount. Otherwise they bottom out in the hole of the lifter and all that force is exerted on the little roller bearing of the lifter. Bearing can't take it so it deforms and doesn't spin properly. When it doesn't roll it drags on the lobe of the cam. This creates pits and flat spots in the roller which then makes it eat into the cam lobe. Its like a snowballing effect and you end up with a destroyed cam and lifters. Were you to just replace the cam and lifters you would not fix the issue, you would just fail new parts as the original causation still was there. Because the 6.4 pushrods are a little shorter, they return the proper length needed to the engine to prevent the rod from bottoming out in the lifter which fails the roller bearing then roller then cam. As most every 6.0 at this point has had its head shaved as they all failed head gaskets this is how you prevent more expensive fails from happening.
I think he meant something else.. if it happens to stock motors too than how would milling the heads cause it?? What about all these stock 6.0’s that go to 375k+?
Would anyone happen to know when ford started using the shorter pushrods I have a crate drop in from Ford in mine got it used of course but we estimate the motor was bought new in 2015
I got a question for you, Bill. How come I can’t get a hold of ANYBODY at your place of business when I am calling? I left a tons of messages, but nobody ever called me. And nobody EVER answers the phone out there. I really wish I can talk to you and make some arrangements to dealer proof my 6.0 Powerstroke
email me at bill@powerstrokehelp.com with your phone number I will personally make sure you get a call. We get 300 emails a day and 100-150 phone calls a day. It is difficult to keep up.
Small aircraft engines had the same failure and it was due to poor metallurgy and incorrect hardening when the OEM was bought out by Crane Cams. Most common-Lycoming 0-320 engines(flat hydraulic tappet). There was usually 2 or 3 lobes gone(.100" plus off). All were caught in time thanks to cutting open the oil filters. Pilots never complained about power loss.
Im selling my 6.0 im tired of all this shit to worry about. Got 210,000 miles on mine. Its just deleted and exhaust but knowing something gonna happen at anytime and cost 10k is just stupid
A lifter is what totaled mine. Came apart and wiped out the motor. Couldn't afford to fix. Had to let the truck go. It's the little things that either make it or break it.
the problem is not only with the pushrod length. The stock cam profile causes the lifters to hop on the lobe and beats the roller to death at high rpm. An aftermarket cam with a more rounded profile along with heavy duty lifters is the only way to truly eliminate this issue in the 6.0 powerstroke. Putting a stock cam and oem lifters back in is just kicking the can down the road. $0.02
Mine lost the exhaust lobe #5 cylinder driving down the interstate on cruise control running about 68 mph. 142000 miles completely stock engine. Traded it for a 2016 F350 with the 6.7. Couldn't be more happy.
Yep, its a basic design that GM (I think it was their design) came up with in the 70's, and its gone into so damn many engines since then. Its a great part, and really damn reliable, just not exactly the right part for this application. You'd think IH would have gone for something a bit beefier.
loves your videos, but I'll keep my 1995 Chevy truck. At least if an engine goes in a gasser its only $2,000 bucks to make run again. $17,000 for just one 6.0L ouch!
Yeah but gas engine uses more fuel per pound of load, has to be rebuilt twice as often, and in my 20 years as a tech I have never seen a gas engine hit over a million miles even if it has been rebuilt repeatedly... a well maintained Dealer-proof 6.0 can go 500k miles without having any more internal problems
Under heavy tuning yes, an the lml has a roller lifter that fails sending metal through the fuel injectors but here the kicker a 6.7L powerstoke uses the same CP4 peice of shit Bosch pump but the reason why you don't see failures on a 6.7L power stroke is they have a low pressure fuel pump between tank an high pressure injection pump, GM put a electric fuel pump on Express van chassis with the 6.6L duramax and on the LGH duramax I never have seen a cp4 failure, lml have tons of cp4 failure lml do not have lift pumps cp4 needs a lift pump or will fail
Duramax have other issies. Fuel rail and injection problems. Best truck wpulf be a cummins on a Allison transmission in a ford chassis..lol whos gpna make that truck? Thad be cool
Without getting too technical, at a minimum, shouldn't the valve stem tips be cut the same amount as the difference in valve height after a full valve job plus the thickness of material milled / removed from the surface of the head in order to maintain stock or better than stock valve train geometry. In this way, the distance from the camshaft to the rocker arm and lifter preload would not change and remain like stock or slightly less, even when using the original pushrods. I understand the reason behind the shorter 6.4 pushrods, but this is for those that were done before the shorter 6.4 pushrods became known.
These shorter pushrods have been required by Ford for at least 5 years now for the 6.0L PSD engines. It has been soooo long ago just figured everyone knew about this change by now. There was a bulletin regarding the new pushrod part number - will look for it later and add it to this comment thread. Also regarding cutting the valve stem tip anytime the heads are machined. You are assuming there is a 1:1 ratio for that rocker arm - which there is not in this motor. Yes you can grind ALL the valve stems a specific amount, but it is not the exact same amount as you took off from the heads in this motor. There is also an issue of hardness on the valve stem tips - the entire valve is not that same hardness and you will be creating new problems by removing too much of the hardened material from the valve stem tips and getting into a softer non-hardened area.
Same lifter in a lot of engines that see way more aggressive camshaft profiles and rpm. 6.0 has to much preload and they came out with the shorter pushrods years ago that's is known. The modern oils is not the same as it use to be, a lot less zinc etc. that is why the camshaft are failing in my opinion. Seen 300k plus mile trucks stock head bolts and tune and camshaft just trucking along. It's not the rod
Powerstokehelp, help me understand something. In the video you state that the pushrods are too long, and getting the heads decked will cause failure because the tolerances are too tight. I understand that. What I don't understand is why you stated that if you've never had the heads off that you'll see the failure. Wouldn't logic say that people who haven't had the heads machined are better off because they still have the .0007 on the heads? Also, wouldn't a much easier and cheaper solution be thicker head gaskets?
I agree with what you're saying in the video but another thing I don't understand is how this is application specific. Theoretically this can, and will happen to every single push rod motor in existence that's had head work
tell us about It Ford could care less at assessing what customers might do to get more HP TQ out of these engines the entire industry is in a race since the cummins debut and Ford knew what people would do..... But Ford does NO R & D! Where is the weak point in ANY Powerstroke engine?? we will see NEXT week....next month.... LOL great Video It will keep many a stroke owner awake at night with imaginations those tiny fragments Killing his engine
Funny thing is Isuzu chose not to use these hydraulic lifters when designing the 8GF1 series of engines (duramax). They use a much beefier solid roller lifter.
To be that bad it has to be binding up, especially if no springs were changed. That's a failure from excessive load. Especially if the change in length is *that* much from the replacement and the original.
You are assuming there is a 1:1 ratio for that rocker arm - which there is not in this motor. Yes you can grind ALL the valve stems a specific amount, but it is not the exact same amount as you took off from the heads in this motor. There is also an issue of hardness on the valve stem tips - the entire valve is not that same hardness and you will be creating new problems by removing too much of the hardened material from the valve stem tips and getting into a softer non-hardened area.
It seems like there's no good fixed because it's just a weak lifter opening the valve slightly more with the heads milled down shouldn't bother it there just running that close to the Ragged edge of durability
Alex Matthews my 7.3 gives me more issues then my 6.0 buddy. I had a 04 cummins i got tired of issues with it and went over to the 7.3 because everyone swore by the 7.3. Then eventually went against everyones advice and got a 6.0 and have been much happier with the 6.0
Been watching Bill for years, so thankful for the knowledge. He's part of the reason i decided to become a mechanic.
Bills Videos are like crack.
Jesus bill, now I gotta call MY customers too! Thank you not only for helping 6.0 owners BUT for helping us 6.0 MECHANICS. Your a godsend. God bless you bill.
I just drove my truck from California to Buford to get it Dealer proof. I towed my travel trailer there as well, I wanted to see what difference it would make getting the dealer proof done. It was night and day, the truck tow way better and smoother specially now with the new tuning modes. Before going up a small hills it would struggle and downshifted. Now it just cruises up hills no sweat. To bad I didn't get to meet Bill when I was there as he was out of town enjoying Mardi Gra in new Orleans. All I got to say is that I am really happy the way the truck runs now and the service. I will be taking a trip to Alaska in the summer and I am confident the truck will do great. Keep up the good work Bill and shout out to Scott. :-)
What year?
What did you pay? Maybe ill go im in Tampa so closer than Cali
Not just metal; but hardened metal pieces circulating through the engine, joyful.
WE HAVE BEEN INSTALLING THESE PUSHRODS IN ALL 6.0 LIFETIME DEALERPROOF JOBS SINCE 2012 and yes it happens to stock motors too.
powerstrokehelp I bulletproofed my 6.0 about a month ago. Told the machine shop to take no more than 6 thousandths off. They said it was out of spec by 2 thousandths and they took three thousands off each side. Should I be ok?
powerstrokehelp ...uuffff.... That's a relief..... Thanks...4 years after you guys did my van... And still running like a champ (minus the oem FICM that took a 💩... Now running the "bulletproof Diesel 6 face 53v)
How can it happen to stock motors that haven't had a head gasket job? In other words, no loss of metal due to machining means no reason for shorter push rods. Please clarify when you can.
powerstrokehelp my Excursion I bought from you guys is running smooth as a sewing machine. 260k miles and it’s like new. I’ll buy another and save $50k again!!
no they didnt take enough
Bill Hewitt is issuing a recall notice to all 6 liter owners.
Another great video thank you I really wish there was someone like bill with the pride that he puts in it that works on duramax motors thank you so much bill god bless
Glad you made this video. When you showed this truck and said it was 1 that you guys worked on it kind of freaked me out. Because I was all set to buy a truck from you then it was like why the he'll did the cam go out. Thanks for the explanation my concerns have been alleviated. You will be hearing from me soon.
I built my 6.0 the way Bill suggests, new pushrods, ford rings, headsets, ARP studs heads and mains and rods, titanium exhaust studs, new high pressure oil pump, warren fuel injectors”better warranty”, $10,000 in parts and such! His engines are a deal at $15-16,000 installed! But I did not have the money up front, built it over 13 months. Get a loan and let Bill do it and get his warranty! Education is costly, I know!
Great info Bill, thanks for sharing!
Brilliant deduction. Thank you so very much for this info.
Bill, what you need to do is on your next "dealerproofing" is install the factory pushrods with some cheap piano-wire checking springs from McMaster or something of the same size as the stock valvesprings. Then observe how the valvetrain moves as the motor is turned over. I suspect theres not enough travel in the system to accommodate the Ford pushrod with decked heads. Should be easy to see. The rocker will get stiff as hell towards the top of the lobe. Something I check during motor builds, just to make sure I don't get any nasty surprises. Also a reason why I buy new factory head castings for stockers if they are available. Just makes life easier as I don't have to worry about altering things as much. Not an option here, so this check becomes almost mandatory, even with the new pushrods.Edit: with factory lifters you will also need to swap the spring out in a junk OEM lifter so it will actually allow the plunger to move and take up "lash" with the checker springs, FWIW.
And if your only decking .007" max, then that really indicates something is right on the edge if they're shitting the bed after that with the original pushrods.
I have a question or two or more. I have a nice 04 Excursion, just coming up on 88K. Guy I bought it from had alot of the updates done. Bulletproof EGR cooler, ARP studs, Super Chips tuner, updated FICM, external oil cooler, Amsoil bypass filter, and more. He was really anal about keeping the truck in excellent repair by changing all the fluids when they needed it. Coolant, trans, diff, and transfer case. New head gaskets at 43 K just because he wanted it checked out, no issues at the time. I'm going to put a coolant filter on it. I'd like your thoughts on a 4 inch exhaust with a free flowing muffler to breath better and maybe help with EGT's when pulling my 800 pound camper. Also, should I eliminate the cat? Would it be a problem as far as back pressure issues or throwing a code or 2? I'm also going to start using Amsoil in the motor, you think that's a good thing? I'm the second owner and I have all the receipts from the guy I got it from when ever he had it serviced. I watch all your videos and figure your the right guys to get answers from when it comes to Powerstrokes. Thanks for any advice you can give me and keep up the great work, we can learn alot on this channel.
Very informative. Thanks bill
I was under the assumption that you can't even get the "longer" rods from Ford. All of the rods for the 6.0/6.4 are .050 shorter than the rods that went in the engines from factory. Ford made the change without sending a service bulletin on it. They knew the stock rods were causing too much pre-load pressure on the lifters causing rocker/lifter failure. You couple an already too long rod with a machined shorter head and this video is what you get. Ford should have issued a nation wide recall on this but I suppose the head bolt issue was enough.
Great video Bill! Thanks for caring
interesting; my gut tells me the real problem is one small lifter supporting two valve springs (lots of force); contributing factors would probably be leaky lifters that bleed down overnight; every high mileage gas engine I've every had made valve train noise on cold starts for 10-15 seconds before the lifters primed up - makes me wonder what double the force (two valve springs) would do to the cam lobes. I'm not sure if you could hear valve train noise on a diesel. If I was pulling the heads, I'd be installing fresh lifters. Yes, shorter pushrods would give you less lifter preload, and increased lifter compression distance before bottoming out (due to leaking lifters on cold start). Won't hurt to install them as long as there is some lifter preload and rocker arm geometry is not adversely affected. Ford is just as culpable as Navastar.
I have been looking for a 2005-07 6.0 and have been watching many of your posts. Because of this I have been concentrating on finding one that is studded. After watching this, I am concerned that the longer push rods are a larger danger than the head gasket issue. I have seen many 2006 and 2007 trucks claiming no head gasket issues with the factory bolts. Which would you suggest?
To those watching the video, the problem is three factors. 1st and foremost, the lifter is already overloaded with that weight of the drive train at *high rpm*. Second, the pushrods being too long initially, as well as even that much longer when you shave the cylinder heads down... Well it exasperated the problem.
Reading the comments is painful. This video explains this in great detail.
if you want to see exasperation read some of the 300-400 emails I get every day.
@@powerstrokehelp you're a badass, but I know all too well how much that shit weighs on ya after some time. Keep up the good fight Bill!
Hey if you get brand new Ford heads on there is it still a good possibility of failure if the push rods wernt changed?
Is it always a good idea to just put the 6.4 push rods in or just if you're gonna turn it up for a little extra power..
Im new to the diesel game. Thanks.
Hey Bill, what signs did the truck give you that this failure was occurring. It appears you managed to save this truck before full blown catastrophe, so what pointed you to pull te camshaft out?
Hey Bill was wondering about lifters on my 2006. Did my Bullet Proofing on mine at 81,000 Miles, at that time i also replaced my Push Rods Also with upgraded RCD Chromemoly Push Rods, New updated length. Since i did this at 81,000 Miles will it prevent lifter failure ? Bought Truck New, Always changed oil and filter every 4,000 Miles like clockwork. The reason all the Bullet Proofing, O-Ringed Heads was because the EGR Cooler Failed. Also did some Mild Performance Upgrades all at the same time. But i didn't Upgrade the Cam and Lifters, probably will in the Future. If i start noticing any signs of Lifter Failure. Truck currently has just under 88,000 Miles. I just don't wanna start sending any metal lifter debris through my Low Mileage Engine. Just hoping by changing the Push-rods, i prevented that from happening ? Or is it eventually gonna happen anyways ?
Is this a problem with machined heads primarily or just any head gasket job?
Are you guys just replacing the pushrod tubes or lifters too with dealership proofing?
So are you saying this is a issue with stock trucks that have never had heads worked on also? Or just on truck with heads being decked.
Will you will be looking into aluminum heads or sticking with what you got now?
How many miles have you got on spot now?
Does the 05 6.0 have camshaft failure or just the 07
Hey Bill you ever see one where you smell radiator fluid for about a week or so but do not see a change in your coolant level for a 6.7
Hasn't the slightly shortened push rod been discussed in a previous video? Can't recall the exact video at the moment, but you have discussed the change in VTG due to machining the heads and, hence, the necessity of the shortened push rods. Just curious.
He's mentioned it before, several times I believe. Never hurts to repeat something so critical though.
+Bob Wolford th-cam.com/video/rSb52P2ZufM/w-d-xo.html Go to 4:30 in that video.
Great information!
Bought a 6.0 X from buds diesel, 4 months & 2k in needed a new cam. Bud honored the work & threw in a new cam. Is this a problem thats going to happen again unless 6.4 pushrods are installed?
That sound about what he's saying.
That sound about what he's saying.
Hello sir I watched all your video but you said they stopped making the 7.3 in 2002 but see some 2003 in 7.3 are they different I'm about to buy one but I wanted your professional advice and thank you in advance
What do you do when you bullit proof a 6.4 because Ik they share the same cam and lifter and both are a 4 valve
you can't bulletproof jello. The engines are trash. He no longer will even work on them
Great info!
Bill, have the trucks you’ve sold recently include this upgrade? I bought mine from you in Sep 1st of last year (2017). Not sure of the date you started incorporating this.
Superduty's and Silver I can bet he put the new pushrods in if he had it opened.
I had an incident this week. A trash talker in a chevy silverado with a built gas engine was dogging me for about 100km. Generally, I don't get involved in this sort of competition, and I just moved out of the fast lane and let him go. Well, he was ahead of me at the bottom of the mountain. He moved into the slow lane, and stepped on the gas. I stayed in the fast lane and stepped on the gas of my upgraded 6.0 ford. It wasn't even close. He was so embarrassed that he pulled over at the brake check. I didn't even put full throttle into it. I love my 6.0.
Im looking to swap my 2000 smoked psd motor with a 2003 t444e is there any modifications i would need to do to the t444e to make it work?
yes.....its the same bloc......put your accesories easy swap
I've seen the same problem in the DT 466 EGR engine to the maxxforce DT. What is your recommendation for a fix on a DT. We change the oil ever 10k miles and we run the over head every 70k miles
The fix is one last gallon of fuel. You pour it all over the thing and start playing with matches
I have seen cam/roller lifters worn like that on other engines over the past 8 years. 3 2009+ 5.7l Hemi, 1 3800 v6 GM, 1 4.7l Dodge, 2 3900 v6 Chevys. All Police cars with heavy idle hours.
Can't you change out the push rods without taking the cylinder head off? Is that not right?
What coolant do you recommend for a bulletproofed 6.0 Powerstroke?
In all his videos he recommends the Ford gold coolant.
I have a bit of difficulty with your root cause analysis. Ok, the lifter collapsing and beating up the camshaft would be due to lifter bleed down. This would be something to expect in an old worn lifter (exactly what you're describing with this engine). A longer pushrod will not cause lifter failure on it's own, it will preload the lifter too much, which possibly is leading to premature lifter bleedown. Those pushrods looked to be a good .080" shorter than the original 6.0 pushrods, you know as well as I do that .080" is a huge change in pushrod length. If a pushrod that much shorter will actually reach zero lash, then there was WAYYY too much preload to begin with. I agree that using the same lifter as a 7.3, with much heavier valvetrain, is not a recipe for longevity, however I disagree that a longer pushrod is the sole cause for the lifter bleed down -- those lifters were plumb wore out. Perhaps the longer pushrod lead the lifters to have a shorter lifespan.
Its not collapsing. The valve train is binding from the pushrod being too long. At that point, everything is at the limits of its travel and only the flexing in the rocker arms will allow it to continue up the cam lobe. Bottom line is ford fucked up. A pushrod that's a little too long without binding will just produce odd wear patterns on the valve stem because the arc of the rocker is off. Factory ones are about 80 lbs. ea on the seat. Decent for a dinky factory roller, but not huge, and the spring rate of those things is pants, so the .080 will not drive up the preload on the seat that much. And since the truck ran *WITHOUT* any sort of skip (presumably), then the lifters were not bottomed out. Total travel of those lifters is about .200" from my experience, so they can tolerate quite a lot of variance.
Another thing that would do it is valve-float as well. If theyre close to the edge and the lifters start to pump up towards the top of the power band, then that will f' things up as well. The factories are ground to tolerances ~1/10,000 of an inch, so they take AGES to bleed down if they pump up.
.047"
EFormance Engineering sorry but any diesel engine that is having these kinds of issues at any less than 500,000 miles is a royal piece of shit. There is a reason almost every heavy truck on the road, that is actually DESIGNED FOR HEAVY LOADS AND ACTUAL PULLING, has an inline 6. Lighter, more efficient, less complicated, cheaper to repair and maintain, none of this silly bullshit about pushrods, and lifter lengths and clearances to this degree...
@@fadingbeleifs All true. Unfortunately for all of us in the pickup market, that superior design is not available in what is otherwise the best built (1 ton or less) pickup truck. IMO, of course.
Bill you seem to be contradicting yourself a bit. You mention that these camshaft failures are caused by a change in valve train geometry when you have your head gaskets replaced. You said the same happens with stock engines that havent had any work done to them? can you clarify?
if the lifters get gunk in them and won't fully depress it causes this what he said was 'if you don't change it to the new rods and lifters when you change the head gaskets ' not that it's caused by the work being done but by the OEM design when it was built (new OEM parts are not even the same number as factory installed)
Can you not just use a thicker composite head gasket to negate the effect of a machined head on the OE pushrod?
they dont make them
This just happened to my friend. He spent $6500 getting it Bulletproofed. They had to resurface the heads. They didn't replace the push rods. 30,000 miles later he had a slight miss which turned into metal in the oil and a destroyed camshaft. He is selling the truck with a bad engine.
Do you see these failures on stock motors as well? Or mainly ones with decked heads?
Id imagine its an issue that turns up in all motors, probably takes longer in an untouched engine though. If Ford doesn't even sell the longer pushrods anymore, id take that as a sure sign it effects them all.
These issues can happen to stock engines also, decked heads could lead to a issue sooner. Ive only done cams on high milage engines myself
Bill..... I got my E350 "Dealerproof" with you in July 2014,... Did I got the updated push rods? -thanks-
PhuckObama he said they started in 2012 installing them
Zach ... Thank you... That's a relief
So should you just change the push rods.. even if you have not had the heads off?
Good to know, thanks Bill.
Never owned a Powerstroke, don't even know if I've ever been on the same street as one, but these videos are still damned interesting.
Jamie W if you live in the USA it's almost impossible for you to not have.
I'm a little slow. Am I hearing that this is only a problem if the heads have been done or am I looking forward to this in my 2006 6 liter that has never had a top end rebuild?
Ok, I listened to it again, it's a result of repair.
You've got an 06 and never had the heads done? Damn you got lucky, that trucks a keeper id say.
Listen one more time starting at 7:40. This can still happen regardless of whether cylinder heads have been off and machined or not.
It'll still likely happen on a stock motor, but will probably take longer. Take it up to Bill, have it dealerproofed, you should be good for another dozen years, EZ!
So the big question here would be, why does Ford Motor Company , not just bring in bill on their next engine design or the latest ones and say Bill what do you think about this or that. And why the hell they don't put a Mishimoto type Radiator in from factory is beyond me. Just ruins the the trucks reputation by cheaping out on plastic garbage and ruining a lot of peoples day when it goes south.
So does the push rod upgrade solve the camshaft problem or just prolong it?
It prevents it from happening. You see, when you blow a head gasket you pretty much always warp the deck surface of the head. In order to correct that you have a machine shop shave a layer off of it. This creates the truly flat and straight surface needed to allow the cylinder to seal up properly however it now gets the valvetrain closer to the cam by that same amount. So if the pushrods that came with it were made for the original thickness and you now reduce that dimension it means the pushrods must be shorter by the same amount. Otherwise they bottom out in the hole of the lifter and all that force is exerted on the little roller bearing of the lifter. Bearing can't take it so it deforms and doesn't spin properly. When it doesn't roll it drags on the lobe of the cam. This creates pits and flat spots in the roller which then makes it eat into the cam lobe. Its like a snowballing effect and you end up with a destroyed cam and lifters. Were you to just replace the cam and lifters you would not fix the issue, you would just fail new parts as the original causation still was there.
Because the 6.4 pushrods are a little shorter, they return the proper length needed to the engine to prevent the rod from bottoming out in the lifter which fails the roller bearing then roller then cam. As most every 6.0 at this point has had its head shaved as they all failed head gaskets this is how you prevent more expensive fails from happening.
Just makes me happy that I sold mine !
Aren't those shorter pushrods accounting for heads that have been milled down? Should I be worried about this being with stocks heads and pushrods?
Only milled down heads (bulletproofing, head gasket replacement, etc)
@@n10cities No, he said even on stock motors this is a likely problem eventually.
I think he meant something else.. if it happens to stock motors too than how would milling the heads cause it?? What about all these stock 6.0’s that go to 375k+?
Are the built in mpg thing right on 2003 7.3. It only has 47k miles on it. Says it's getting 10.4.
Do the math and find out.
Would anyone happen to know when ford started using the shorter pushrods I have a crate drop in from Ford in mine got it used of course but we estimate the motor was bought new in 2015
The short pushrods showed up in late 2007 and used in 6.4 also. So you should be good.
@@powerstrokehelp good thanks bill
I got a question for you, Bill. How come I can’t get a hold of ANYBODY at your place of business when I am calling? I left a tons of messages, but nobody ever called me. And nobody EVER answers the phone out there. I really wish I can talk to you and make some arrangements to dealer proof my 6.0 Powerstroke
email me at bill@powerstrokehelp.com with your phone number I will personally make sure you get a call. We get 300 emails a day and 100-150 phone calls a day. It is difficult to keep up.
powerstrokehelp thanks! Will do!!!!
powerstrokehelp I did emailed you 2 days ago like you told me to. Nobody called me
Fight Factory get a call?
Bill any body you know in rebuilding early thousands GEM’S im in Northern California
And cant find no one here.
Other than junkyards
What's the length of the new style push rods compared to the old style
Small aircraft engines had the same failure and it was due to poor metallurgy and incorrect hardening when the OEM was bought out by Crane Cams. Most common-Lycoming 0-320 engines(flat hydraulic tappet). There was usually 2 or 3 lobes gone(.100" plus off). All were caught in time thanks to cutting open the oil filters. Pilots never complained about power loss.
That could lead to a VERY bad day!
Does the same thing happen to 7.3s?
It is necessary to remove engine from truck to replace camshaft?
Yes that is the best way and the engines are installed from underside in factory. The cab has to come off if you want this job to be alot easier
Im selling my 6.0 im tired of all this shit to worry about. Got 210,000 miles on mine. Its just deleted and exhaust but knowing something gonna happen at anytime and cost 10k is just stupid
Do you know anyone that does this same excellant service for 6.5 diesels?
With a 6.5, do you really need a shop? They're super easy to work on in my opinion. Definitely no where near as complex as a 6.0
Aint that why some guys say to put thicker head gaskets on?
I love that Weather Tech gutter!!
A lifter is what totaled mine. Came apart and wiped out the motor. Couldn't afford to fix. Had to let the truck go. It's the little things that either make it or break it.
Robby Sheperd
Same thing happened to my dad. But he had the heads machined when his head gasket blew which makes sense. His died at 220k
I’ve had my truck bulletproof dog completely and my head gasket is blown again what do I do
Bailey Moore turn the boost down. How did you blow it with the heads studded?
Who "bulletproofed" it? Not Bill, I'm betting!
Is this true for the 7.3 as well?
That's what I wanted to know...
I love my 7.3.
rangemasterken you had to be that guy
Love mine too. Unfortunately, itll rust away to nothing before anything else.
the problem is not only with the pushrod length. The stock cam profile causes the lifters to hop on the lobe and beats the roller to death at high rpm. An aftermarket cam with a more rounded profile along with heavy duty lifters is the only way to truly eliminate this issue in the 6.0 powerstroke. Putting a stock cam and oem lifters back in is just kicking the can down the road. $0.02
Mine lost the exhaust lobe #5 cylinder driving down the interstate on cruise control running about 68 mph. 142000 miles completely stock engine. Traded it for a 2016 F350 with the 6.7. Couldn't be more happy.
That lifter looks like the one in the old Land Rover V8 engines (3.5, 3.9, 4.0, 4.2, 4.6). I guess that same lifter really was used in a lot of V8s.
Yep, its a basic design that GM (I think it was their design) came up with in the 70's, and its gone into so damn many engines since then. Its a great part, and really damn reliable, just not exactly the right part for this application. You'd think IH would have gone for something a bit beefier.
loves your videos, but I'll keep my 1995 Chevy truck. At least if an engine goes in a gasser its only $2,000 bucks to make run again. $17,000 for just one 6.0L ouch!
Yeah but gas engine uses more fuel per pound of load, has to be rebuilt twice as often, and in my 20 years as a tech I have never seen a gas engine hit over a million miles even if it has been rebuilt repeatedly... a well maintained Dealer-proof 6.0 can go 500k miles without having any more internal problems
Does duramax have any of these problems?
Matt Lane no
Under heavy tuning yes, an the lml has a roller lifter that fails sending metal through the fuel injectors but here the kicker a 6.7L powerstoke uses the same CP4 peice of shit Bosch pump but the reason why you don't see failures on a 6.7L power stroke is they have a low pressure fuel pump between tank an high pressure injection pump, GM put a electric fuel pump on Express van chassis with the 6.6L duramax and on the LGH duramax I never have seen a cp4 failure, lml have tons of cp4 failure lml do not have lift pumps cp4 needs a lift pump or will fail
Duramax have other issies. Fuel rail and injection problems. Best truck wpulf be a cummins on a Allison transmission in a ford chassis..lol whos gpna make that truck? Thad be cool
Without getting too technical, at a minimum, shouldn't the valve stem tips be cut the same amount as the difference in valve height after a full valve job plus the thickness of material milled / removed from the surface of the head in order to maintain stock or better than stock valve train geometry. In this way, the distance from the camshaft to the rocker arm and lifter preload would not change and remain like stock or slightly less, even when using the original pushrods. I understand the reason behind the shorter 6.4 pushrods, but this is for those that were done before the shorter 6.4 pushrods became known.
These shorter pushrods have been required by Ford for at least 5 years now for the 6.0L PSD engines. It has been soooo long ago just figured everyone knew about this change by now. There was a bulletin regarding the new pushrod part number - will look for it later and add it to this comment thread.
Also regarding cutting the valve stem tip anytime the heads are machined. You are assuming there is a 1:1 ratio for that rocker arm - which there is not in this motor. Yes you can grind ALL the valve stems a specific amount, but it is not the exact same amount as you took off from the heads in this motor. There is also an issue of hardness on the valve stem tips - the entire valve is not that same hardness and you will be creating new problems by removing too much of the hardened material from the valve stem tips and getting into a softer non-hardened area.
Same lifter in a lot of engines that see way more aggressive camshaft profiles and rpm. 6.0 has to much preload and they came out with the shorter pushrods years ago that's is known. The modern oils is not the same as it use to be, a lot less zinc etc. that is why the camshaft are failing in my opinion. Seen 300k plus mile trucks stock head bolts and tune and camshaft just trucking along. It's not the rod
Why you think zinc is good??
Powerstokehelp, help me understand something. In the video you state that the pushrods are too long, and getting the heads decked will cause failure because the tolerances are too tight. I understand that. What I don't understand is why you stated that if you've never had the heads off that you'll see the failure. Wouldn't logic say that people who haven't had the heads machined are better off because they still have the .0007 on the heads? Also, wouldn't a much easier and cheaper solution be thicker head gaskets?
I agree with what you're saying in the video but another thing I don't understand is how this is application specific. Theoretically this can, and will happen to every single push rod motor in existence that's had head work
tell us about It Ford could care less at assessing what customers might do to get more HP TQ out of these engines the entire industry is in a race since the cummins debut and Ford knew what people would do..... But Ford does NO R & D! Where is the weak point in ANY Powerstroke engine?? we will see NEXT week....next month.... LOL great Video It will keep many a stroke owner awake at night with imaginations those tiny fragments Killing his engine
Funny thing is Isuzu chose not to use these hydraulic lifters when designing the 8GF1 series of engines (duramax). They use a much beefier solid roller lifter.
To be that bad it has to be binding up, especially if no springs were changed. That's a failure from excessive load. Especially if the change in length is *that* much from the replacement and the original.
Run solid roller lifters lol
Shave head surface 7th thousands of an inch grind end of valve 7 thousands of an inch
You are assuming there is a 1:1 ratio for that rocker arm - which there is not in this motor. Yes you can grind ALL the valve stems a specific amount, but it is not the exact same amount as you took off from the heads in this motor. There is also an issue of hardness on the valve stem tips - the entire valve is not that same hardness and you will be creating new problems by removing too much of the hardened material from the valve stem tips and getting into a softer non-hardened area.
KCautodoctor push rods are cheap compared to valves. I'd rather do push rods anyways.
Ford has never, I say never recommended resurfacing head. I worked on these since they were released in 2003 at the dealer until Sept. 2017
First comment.. Love ur vids bill, keep up the good work
So could you have just thrown an plus 10 thousandth head gasket on and never had that happen?
It seems like there's no good fixed because it's just a weak lifter opening the valve slightly more with the heads milled down shouldn't bother it there just running that close to the Ragged edge of durability
Need new video, jonesing hard!!
Well all learn something new every day..
Its why i now drive a 6.2
That's it not buying a 6.0
Sure glade i got rid of mine. Big money pit. Endless repairs
PSD fear factor goes up with every video. Luv the vid's tho!!
I have seen multiple chevys do this
I'm going to buy another 7.3 when mine is wore out, then I'll prob be driving another Cummins
Alex Matthews my 7.3 gives me more issues then my 6.0 buddy. I had a 04 cummins i got tired of issues with it and went over to the 7.3 because everyone swore by the 7.3. Then eventually went against everyones advice and got a 6.0 and have been much happier with the 6.0
An adjustable valve train like. Diesel should have would’ve prevented this issue.
honestly , its a wonder that ford can GIVE these trucks away . let alone sell them .
So moral of the story is
Just buy a 7.3 and you don’t have these problems
@@guyfoxhimself3102 Ha! I don't care about a single one of the "features" you listed!
@@guyfoxhimself3102 Do u want a car or a truck?
Good luck finding one that isn't rotted out or driven to the point of failure. Easier to find cleaner body 6.0s.
gawd buy a gasser
The whole 6.0 PSD is a flaw.
James Miller only if you put a tuner on them and don't take care of it
Mine had 387k miles when I traded it in
Unless your the repair guy......
No the 6.4 was a flaw
LoL you can tell yourself that if you want to. But if they weren't junk this channel and "dealer proofing" 6.0s wouldn't exist.