Everyone was saying the 26" fat bike is dead, and that it's too much tire, unnecessary, and you don't need it. SURLY doubles down and says "hold my beer". 🤣
@Animalstyle69 I was wrong- 26 x 3.8s Larry and Knard got chopped like you said, I forgot about their ventures into 26+ too. But other than 26+, it's not like they've dropped a whole tire standard (here's looking at you, Bontrager!)
you only THINK you don't have a use for it! once you try it and see what it goes over, you would change your mind. I have the Big Fat Dummy, I got it for work to replace the gravelbike that I was pulling a trailer with to carry my equipment. I got both the 29×3 & 26×4.8, thinking I would only use the 26's in the winter. but no it's the other way around I prefer the 26's so much more, that I only use the 29s if my other wheels are being worked on. in fact I'm tempted to see if the 24×6.2 fits on the BFD. when my LBS first assembled it, it came with the 29×3, so for the first 2 weeks that's what I rode. we have a lot of leftover glacial runoff sand dunes around here, and one of the trails we have goes right up one of them. with a 3-inch tires I can maybe get up a third of the way before it sinks in. when I got the 4.8 inch wheels, I tried the same hill, and I could tell immediately on the first false start that I was going to make it once I got my body position correct. I can make it up almost every time depending on how recently ATVs have been up through there churning it up. I've also been over small logs, swampy sections of trail. what stops me most of the time is not any deficiency in the tires, but rather tall grass or brush (just like you see in bushwhacking through in this video) jamming up the rear mech and spokes
I'd probably buy one if it were aluminum. I'm guessing there will be a Salsa soon. Definitely no "need" for it but I'd totally get one to tow my dogs around in the snow
Wow!! That is a set of tires. I live by some big rail trails and a lot of mixed terrain. This would be so much fun in winter. Riding a Wednesday now and some times I get tire envy.. The electric air pump is a good idea and is now on the Christmas list. Thanks for another great review and take care, Al
Very cool. I am thinking a fat bike like this with an electric component would make an amazing commuter (secure storage mandatory😊). Thanks for the review!
I hope the TPU tubes on this thing is a sign that Surly will also release standard fatbike sized TPU tubes, something that has been missing for a long while.
@@kevinhodgson2085 Yeah, unfortunately they are very hard to get in my experience (and often unreliable). Not sure which AUS company you are referring to, but I would bet they will be equally difficult to find.
Fun! I've been riding a 1st-Gen Ice Cream Truck for nearly a decade now. Couldn't see myself swapping it out for this (especially as I have mine set up with a Lauf Carbonara suspension fork, with makes it waaaaaaay more fun and comfortable), but it's nice to see Surly are still doing their thing in the world of fatbikes. I figured they'd pretty much thrown in the greasy rag a few years ago.
I have a 2015 aluminum Salsa Mukluk, and I have taken it on some really interesting and difficult rides. Along lakeshores, with a mixture of sand, stream crossings, chunky rock sections, it excelled like no other bike. I do admit that such a bike is really best for terrain not suitable for even a mountain bike. It's not fun on pavement. It's not something I would take if everyone else was on faster bikes (you'd be left behind a lot), but to go where this video showed, you'd leave the other riders far behind, instead of being left behind. These are niche bikes for sure. Definitely. But if out of the ordinary terrain is something you want to push into --- a fat bike is incredible. I plan on keeping my bike and ride it till I no longer ride bikes. Very good review!!! Thanks.
@@MrHamncheez because the bike is designed to be able to swap the front and back wheels in an emergency, similar to the Pugsley or Tumbleweed Prospector. An IGH prohibits that. Then there's the multi wheel size compatibility. This is why Pinion is superior to Rohloff.
I just love fat bikes. This one looks like you could make going to buy an ice cream an adventure in itself. A Pinion gear box on this rig makes sense considering it's intended use on snow and sand. The next step in tire technology should be to stuff gear into the tires. Lots of available space there. They do it on many pack rafts already. Thanks Neil for the review.
actually, those TPMS sensors and pumps mounted inside the rim that they tried last year on all of the cobble stone races, so you can adjust tire pressure to conditions without stopping the bike
I love companies like surly that just release cool shit like this cause they can. I don't have a use for the moon lander! But boy i know there's a few folks out there heading to the lbs for one this week and I love that. Niche bike stuff will always make my heart warm❤
Yeah I agree, and with so many gravel, MTB, plus tyres bike options, if I'm getting a fat bike, I don't want it to be optimized for racing or whatever, I'd want the fattest tyres possible
Great video! Having rode a 4.8” tire fat bike exclusively all over the Western USA for 5 years, I can’t remember ever thinking the tires were too small, but I’d love to try this on some of the rugged trails/roads I’ve ridden, Engineer Mountain to Alpine Loop out and back in Ouray CO comes to mind, also, Mt St Hellens Ape Canyon to Plains of Abraham 🤘🏽
May I ask? Is this for cyclist as well, or is it for Mushers (Dog Sleaders)? I read a little bit about it, and I'll admit, I'm really interested and wanna try this.
I've been riding a Priority 600X with the Pinion gearbox and a Gates belt drive, and it has become my daily rider and bikepacking ride of choice. I love that Surly came out with the Moonlander, and I only wish there was a split in the rear triangle for belt drive. I have really gotten used to not being on the chain gang. Having said that, I will give the Moonlander a close look.
I think that the torque that these tires and gear on rough terrain would be very bad for a gates belt. Lighter folks tend to be fine with them. Possibly having the tranny in front of it helps but given the sorts of leverage you might be applying on this thing I think you still want a steel chain. What I am more curious about is could you run an Onyx hub and how strong is the free wheel in the pinon? But maybe an Onyx on the power delivery side would protect the free wheel in the Pinion.
Ah, so this is why no Gates belt… now I get it. I ride a Tout Terrain Blueridge Xplore GT and the C1.12 with the Gates belt is incredible… smooth, huge range. Amazing on 20% grades.
@@xophere I don't think the torque is something belt cannot handle, as shown by Tern Orox R14, a fat bike with belt driven Rohloff hub and mid drive motor. It is more likely they didn't want to change the geometry drastically to account for seatstay split and length of chainstay.
Totally wish that these were accessible. I would definitely have a blast! A slow , steady, crazy off road adventure (or a lifetime of those types of adventures) would be super welcome!
Love it, I have a skid loader and I would say it shares some DNA with the frame of skid loader as well. Add different fork, increase rear wheel space and take out the little handle on seat tube and wa-la… even close in color. I want one living in MN it would be perfect for our massive snowfall! Thank you for the video, great work.
Wheel diameter is listed by Surly as 788 mm, or 31.0”. 29x3.0 and 27.5x4’ish measure right about the same. Now I kinda want to build up a 24” front wheel for my Blackborow with this tire, sort of a reverse mullet. When I punch through a top crust it is always the front first, so it might actually have some value.
Oh man I love the G-spot. I lived in Gunny for a while back in the mid-2000s. This bike is pretty dope. Mixes my new love of bikes, with one of my old hobbies, jeeping/off-roading.
I do see a niche for the 6.2 tires and would be amused to have this. But I only have storage space for my wife and I to have two pairs of bikes so our bikes need to be versatile. Our hard tail trail bikes do everything from blue trail MTBing to 500 miles of RAGBRAI by swapping tires. For all of our bikepacking adventures from C&O canal, Katy, to GDMBR our matched pair of 2018 Surly ECRs have been perfect. 27.5x 3.0 tires are adequate on most loose sand, negate the need for suspension, but aren’t noticeably slower on pavement. In fact we always were able to out coast other bike packers on the GDMBR downhills whether paved, gravel, or rough. The worse the surface the bigger our advantage. The 2x10 drive train is perfect. I wouldn’t “upgrade” to 1x whatever on ECR. The components were spec’d for simple reliability and we enjoy that immensely. On GDMBR we rolled into a CO bike shop with a dozen other SoBo riders. Since the only thing we needed was new chains the bill for our pair of ECRs was far less that what everyone else needed to spend for any one bike. Using them got bikepacking in FL now. Looking forward to Hurracan in February. Anyhow, I love these 2018 ECRs, I really don’t understand why Surly messed with the specs on this bike.
Crazy, I just scored a 2013 Monnlander, and it’s a beast! It’s been super fun to ride on the rutted, sandy trails we have in Northern Florida. My wife had to get off her “non-fattie”bike and walk it through the sections I floated across. My Bud and Lou tires were left at 10 psi but I imagine that they would handle better on these trails with less pressure. I have a 135mm Rohloff on my old Moulton that I’m considering putting on it, and I’m eyeing some bike packing routes in the area….
Love to see a pinion gearbox on fatbike! My next fatbike will certainly have one. Prominently missing, (to me) is the Gates Carbon belt drive system. This would definitely compliment the Pinion. In order to accommodate the belt drive, I would suspect that the rear stay triangle would have to be more stiff...meaning more weight. I like the longer rear stays that, as you said, adds to stability. I would also like to see the 12 speed Pinion used here. More versatility and, probably, more weight. Personally, especially given the extreme environments I would likely be using this bike in and the remote location of said environments....I would opt for Paul Klamper mechanical brakes. Overall, this appears to be a great foray into the realm of gearbox driven fatbikes. Curious to see if other mfgrs venture into it. Thanks for a first look into this new machine, done very well as always. Be well.
I’d use this on my super fine sand in the Florida panhandle that no other fat bike has been able to conquer. I would also use this for riding down railroad tracks where I can quickly exit if need be. Love the pinion. I’m glad Surly is starting to use the pinion gear box.
Thank you for your informative and entertaining review! I also own a 2011, on which I completed a tough 2015 Little Su 50K. The extra float of the 6.2” sure is enticing for Alaska!
I'm looking for an around the world bike. This would be cool way in the outback but we'll be on roads a lot too. Good video - I like the on bike shots/thoughts. And the kayaker interlude was funny.
I feel like this is one of those bikes that promises to go anywhere, but you already have to be a crazy good rider to make it work well in the more rugged terrain
This looks like a fun ride! It's cool to see Surly giving the Pinion system a shot. I'd love to see them do that with an all-rounder like the Karate Monkey!
Actually Salsa announced the release of the Mukluk as the first fully assembled production Fat-Bike before Surly. But, Surly responded quickly and was able to get the 1st fully assembled ready to ride production Pugsley in showrooms before the Mukluk. Anyway, I got a first generation Salsa Mukluk and it quickly became my favorite bike. All my other bikes got dusty sitting in the garage. When the Moonlander came out I had to have one! And it was just a blast to ride! Glad to see Surly bring the Moonlander back!
Surly Pugsleys were around in 2005, and came with cantilever brake mounts in addition to disks. The first Mukluk came about (according to Salsa) in 2011, and it was sold with Surly tires!
Factually speaking, the Surly Pugsley was launched in 2005, and the Salsa Mukluk in 2012. The OG Moonlander was launched 2011. Glad you enjoyed the first gen Moonlander!
@@kikinikpics Thanks! You are correct, and my original post was poorly worded. I have edited it. I was referring to the first fully assembled ready to ride production fat bike.
@@kikinikpics Thanks! You are correct. My original post was poorly worded and I’ve corrected it. I was referring to the first fully assembled ready to ride fat bike.
Being of the old-school touring gang, you know, panniers and racks, I find humor in 'bikepacking' vs 'bike touring'. That sure looks like a touring rack on the rear. And those tires are cartoonish!... maybe clown shoes instead of sandals?? Thanks Neil and keep up the great reviews. I still love my Ibis Ripley LS bought at ACF in Mpls.
I would love to try one of these for dune riding to compare against my Trek Farley. That fine sand is incredibly hard to handle. But I don’t really feel like I had mastered the bike when I tried it. I feel like technique and getting the bike fit just right might be more important than the different tire/rim setups. 45lb+ sounds brutal too! I run about the same pressure ranges as in this video.
Oh, they do it again :) Set up rear hub to the front, make mile-long tail and so on. I love it. In my thoughts fatbike should deliver you to nowhere and be the fun. I own 4" custom Ti-version with Pugs geo and I newer sell it.
Love it! I have a Surly Ogre, then Big Dummy and now I just got a tout Terrain Outback explore which is basically slim version of this without he mid tail...I have 27.5x3.8" on that and I love it so this would be super cool to have even though I don't have much sand and snow here I do have rocks but I am thinking I would get the frame to spec out and definitely put one of the bigger pinions on this and a bigger front chainring. I would definitely think about putting an electric motor for more fun 😅 seeing the hubs are the same even a 2x2 ebike would be possible 😂
If there was ever a use-case scenario for an e-bike, this is it. lol Seriously, I understand this is niche, but I think an e-bike version would certainly appeal to a lot of beachcombers.
My first trip on my ICT was the Rubicon trail. I think this might've been a better fit! That much closer to half a rock crawler. But considering most of my riding is single track or gravel/fire roads, I'm definitely happier with my choice. 10lb lighter and $1500 cheaper even after adding the dropper!
@speelyeitrickster3822 they're overrated. They last 5x as long as a normal drivetrain but cost 5x as much, and you have to send it in to be serviced/you can't service it yourself. Kinda a sidegrade for people who want it, but not that great tbh.
Appreciate this video. I'd be curious to see a review of this come winter riding and various terrain it might cover better than your normal fat bike with 4.8" tires if this brings fatbiking to another level. I suspect the customer basis for this is quite small though.
I would like to see a side by side test between this thing in snow and a carbon salsa fatbike with 4.8 tires in snow. At some point the 46+ pounds will hurt performance no matter how fat the tires are.
Wish my Gen 2 Pugs had the Pinion w Gates belt. Gonna stick w the Pugs; 29 x 3 summer packing, 26 x 4 for snow rides and winter commuting, hard to beat. Just crossed the state line from WY to CO last weekend.
I’d definitely be riding riding that monster on the beach when the tide is out. Though currently if the sand is firm enough I ride my Brompton instead, like I did last week, making multiple criss-crossing patterns (making sure not to get any sand on the rim brake surface).
The drivetrain choice is very cool. Never thought they'd do it, but this is the perfect platform. The Skid Loader should have the Pinion MGU instead of Bosch.
Extremely cool rig. Ive been a huge Surly fan for years and i hope it sells well. Some downfalls i see: The price and weight are going to steer many away. 4,000$ for a 46# bike is alot of cake for alot of weight
super minor note, but the tire is pronounced "mo-lend-ah", not "mo-lind-ah". They're named after my brother, Nate Molenda, the old Surly Nate tire was named for him too, he's a big fat bike guy in Minnesota and tight with a lot of the orig surly crew.
@@MrQuestful Nate is a rowdy, fun, outgoing guy in person, but lives almost entirely offline, we’re basically opposites. I’m a roadie running di2, he’s a fat bike guy who doesn’t trust anything with more than nine gears. But I’m still trying to convinced all my friends the tire is named after me all the same. 😁 (there’s only a few dozen Molendas in the US, it’s a bit unusual of a name so I’ve got a shot at convincing my buds)
Love the idea, would really like to take one for a spin in the snow. It looks like my current medium fatbike with a classic A-frame shape would fit more gear in and under the frame where it's nice for snow to keep the weight low.
I love Surly. Suriously. Almost a Midtailbike. Can`t wait for it to a get an offroad touring option! Question: Is it compatible with the skit loader rack? Keep it up with this awesome coveragy!
What if you had a wireless inflator on each wheel and were able to adjust air pressure on the move? If it were mounted at the hub the extra weight would unbalance the rim. A tube running from the pump at the hub to the rim might work. Or does someone already do this?
BADASS (NEW?). SURLY!!👍💪😎 Talk about timing. I was on Surly's website a couple nights ago and saw the new Moonlander. I've been considering a new Ice Cream Truck for a while, the new Moonlander takes things to the extreme (in a fantastic way, IMO). THANKS for the test and review. Will I dig a little deeper in my pockets to spring for one? 🤔IDK...just yet.😁 It's an intriguing machine to say the very least! Where would I take my first adventure on one? As much of the Continent Divide Trail as possible, preferably ALL of it!
I feel like surly has been in a bit of a slump in recent years- great to see them putting out something with new ideas that advances the field as a whole. Just like the old days :)
Is/are the BB/pedals really wide? It looks like there is a side mounted extension on the Pinion. I guess what I'm asking is....will it make you go "Bull-legged"? And 29x3.0? Do you think that it could handle the Duro Crux 29x3.25?
This bike looks great but living in Switzerland (where we have lots of hills & mountains) it would be of absolutely no use to me. Except in the winter, but then I’d need to make it an E-Bike to be able to climb the mountain slopes😂 Great review!
Really curious how it will do on east coast snow. We don't get that nice crystalline fluffy stuff you get in the rockies. We get dense, wet and heavy frozen mashed potatoes which I found even my 27.5 x 4.2 Giant Yukon struggled with.
I like my 26x4 fat ebikes - didnt think Id like fat tires, but I got the ebike & found it was more stable & made me more confident on gravel n dirt than my mtb that has 1.75 wide tires. so yeah I like the fatties for my rides are mostly off road [un paved] I like 15 PSI for my gravel/dirt rides.
While an interesting bike, for me, having owned the Surly ICT with MDS at one point and now own a Salsa Beargrease, I'm just about done with the fat bike "itch". Even though the Beargrease works pretty well here in Colorado during snow season, I just don't find myself riding the bike much the rest of a year. As I get older, I prefer to go a bit faster...so the Beargrease will be going up for sale.
Doesn’t Pinion now make a combination motor/gearbox? I wonder if it would mount in the same “bottom bracket”. I’m not really an e-bike fan, but for a 46 lb bike, my aging body might need it soon.
Neil, is this the ITI rig? I could definitely see it being perfect for that soft "greasy" snow. Like the long wheel base...kinda "meh" with the 24" wheel but get why. Its not going to replace my 9Zero7 with 105mm carbon hoops, but it could be the best expedition fat bike for snow. Also, your descriptions of ride quality and behavior are perfect.
Everyone was saying the 26" fat bike is dead, and that it's too much tire, unnecessary, and you don't need it.
SURLY doubles down and says "hold my beer". 🤣
LoL.
Are you gonna buy one of these?
@@manaknight333 electric would be a blast
Its still dead though
@@manaknight333 No need for this build currently.
Never been a fan of fat bikes, but this spoke to something deep in my soul I didn't know was there
You should pick a bike based on the terrain you are riding, not what it looks like.
Just make sure to stock up on tires before they inevitable abandon the tire size and stop production in 3 years.
Other than Endomorphs and Black Floyds, discontinuing tire *standards is not Surly's scene. Discontinuing rims is another matter. (*edited)
Yes, it's so possible, but it takes quite a range of wheel sizes so you wouldn't be that stuck.
@Animalstyle69 I was wrong- 26 x 3.8s Larry and Knard got chopped like you said, I forgot about their ventures into 26+ too. But other than 26+, it's not like they've dropped a whole tire standard (here's looking at you, Bontrager!)
@@taknnamethey still list the lowside as coming in 26+ alternating years but 22 is the only year they made it I think.
@@TK-OK They made a 26x3.0 Knard for a bit that fit on the front and rear of the ~2017 Troll.
I have zero use for this bike but can't help from smiling when looking at it.
you only THINK you don't have a use for it! once you try it and see what it goes over, you would change your mind. I have the Big Fat Dummy, I got it for work to replace the gravelbike that I was pulling a trailer with to carry my equipment. I got both the 29×3 & 26×4.8, thinking I would only use the 26's in the winter. but no it's the other way around I prefer the 26's so much more, that I only use the 29s if my other wheels are being worked on. in fact I'm tempted to see if the 24×6.2 fits on the BFD. when my LBS first assembled it, it came with the 29×3, so for the first 2 weeks that's what I rode. we have a lot of leftover glacial runoff sand dunes around here, and one of the trails we have goes right up one of them. with a 3-inch tires I can maybe get up a third of the way before it sinks in. when I got the 4.8 inch wheels, I tried the same hill, and I could tell immediately on the first false start that I was going to make it once I got my body position correct. I can make it up almost every time depending on how recently ATVs have been up through there churning it up. I've also been over small logs, swampy sections of trail. what stops me most of the time is not any deficiency in the tires, but rather tall grass or brush (just like you see in bushwhacking through in this video) jamming up the rear mech and spokes
I'd probably buy one if it were aluminum. I'm guessing there will be a Salsa soon. Definitely no "need" for it but I'd totally get one to tow my dogs around in the snow
@@veganpotterthevegan sounds cruel
@@PazLeBon they absolutely love the trailer. I don't have the ski attachments yet though
@@veganpotterthevegan I believe this is what they call putting the cart before the horse.
This is nuts. Official rig of Klunk 'n' Float.
Wow!! That is a set of tires. I live by some big rail trails and a lot of mixed terrain. This would be so much fun in winter. Riding a Wednesday now and some times I get tire envy.. The electric air pump is a good idea and is now on the Christmas list. Thanks for another great review and take care, Al
Very cool. I am thinking a fat bike like this with an electric component would make an amazing commuter (secure storage mandatory😊). Thanks for the review!
I hope the TPU tubes on this thing is a sign that Surly will also release standard fatbike sized TPU tubes, something that has been missing for a long while.
Revoloop do fatbike sized TPU tubes. As do another company based in Australia.
@@kevinhodgson2085 Yeah, unfortunately they are very hard to get in my experience (and often unreliable). Not sure which AUS company you are referring to, but I would bet they will be equally difficult to find.
Fun! I've been riding a 1st-Gen Ice Cream Truck for nearly a decade now. Couldn't see myself swapping it out for this (especially as I have mine set up with a Lauf Carbonara suspension fork, with makes it waaaaaaay more fun and comfortable), but it's nice to see Surly are still doing their thing in the world of fatbikes. I figured they'd pretty much thrown in the greasy rag a few years ago.
I have a 2015 aluminum Salsa Mukluk, and I have taken it on some really interesting and difficult rides. Along lakeshores, with a mixture of sand, stream crossings, chunky rock sections, it excelled like no other bike. I do admit that such a bike is really best for terrain not suitable for even a mountain bike. It's not fun on pavement. It's not something I would take if everyone else was on faster bikes (you'd be left behind a lot), but to go where this video showed, you'd leave the other riders far behind, instead of being left behind. These are niche bikes for sure. Definitely. But if out of the ordinary terrain is something you want to push into --- a fat bike is incredible. I plan on keeping my bike and ride it till I no longer ride bikes. Very good review!!! Thanks.
Riding Fat tire bicycles must be experienced to be appreciated for how utilitarian they are.
Surley on! 🚴🏼🚴🏼🚴🏼
Finally Pinion for fatbikes
A match made in heaven.
It's awesome! I've had a Pinion with Gates belt drive on my Carver Omega Beast for a couple years and will never go back.
And it makes so much sense. It's hard to clear the tire with the chain with a wide cassette.
why not just a kindernay or Rohloff
@@MrHamncheez because the bike is designed to be able to swap the front and back wheels in an emergency, similar to the Pugsley or Tumbleweed Prospector. An IGH prohibits that. Then there's the multi wheel size compatibility. This is why Pinion is superior to Rohloff.
I just love fat bikes. This one looks like you could make going to buy an ice cream an adventure in itself. A Pinion gear box on this rig makes sense considering it's intended use on snow and sand. The next step in tire technology should be to stuff gear into the tires. Lots of available space there. They do it on many pack rafts already. Thanks Neil for the review.
As always, thanks for watching, Jake!
Haha good idea 😅 tires with zippers
You could use this bike to go buy a Surly Ice Cream Truck.
Packrafts don't have to spin! I guess if you were careful you might fit a down sleeping bag in there, if you keep it pretty balanced. Funny idea.
actually, those TPMS sensors and pumps mounted inside the rim that they tried last year on all of the cobble stone races, so you can adjust tire pressure to conditions without stopping the bike
I love companies like surly that just release cool shit like this cause they can. I don't have a use for the moon lander! But boy i know there's a few folks out there heading to the lbs for one this week and I love that. Niche bike stuff will always make my heart warm❤
Yeah I agree, and with so many gravel, MTB, plus tyres bike options, if I'm getting a fat bike, I don't want it to be optimized for racing or whatever, I'd want the fattest tyres possible
lol@cool
Good on them for going against trends and doing something different. I've been waiting for this bike for years!
i totally agree. sometimes i also like to imagine what insane shit those people are up to that they think they need this.
Great video! Having rode a 4.8” tire fat bike exclusively all over the Western USA for 5 years, I can’t remember ever thinking the tires were too small, but I’d love to try this on some of the rugged trails/roads I’ve ridden, Engineer Mountain to Alpine Loop out and back in Ouray CO comes to mind, also, Mt St Hellens Ape Canyon to Plains of Abraham 🤘🏽
2:49 The cages and frame pack I got from Tailfin are legit. Perfect fit and very durable through heavy rain, mud, and summer dust clouds. Good shit
There needs to be an e-bike version. This would kill in steep snowy conditions, but without assistance good luck pushing this through the snow.
Amazing Neil, can't wait to see you up here for your Moonlander Iditarod quest this winter!
May I ask? Is this for cyclist as well, or is it for Mushers (Dog Sleaders)? I read a little bit about it, and I'll admit, I'm really interested and wanna try this.
I've been riding a Priority 600X with the Pinion gearbox and a Gates belt drive, and it has become my daily rider and bikepacking ride of choice. I love that Surly came out with the Moonlander, and I only wish there was a split in the rear triangle for belt drive. I have really gotten used to not being on the chain gang. Having said that, I will give the Moonlander a close look.
I think that the torque that these tires and gear on rough terrain would be very bad for a gates belt. Lighter folks tend to be fine with them. Possibly having the tranny in front of it helps but given the sorts of leverage you might be applying on this thing I think you still want a steel chain. What I am more curious about is could you run an Onyx hub and how strong is the free wheel in the pinon? But maybe an Onyx on the power delivery side would protect the free wheel in the Pinion.
Ah, so this is why no Gates belt… now I get it. I ride a Tout Terrain Blueridge Xplore GT and the C1.12 with the Gates belt is incredible… smooth, huge range. Amazing on 20% grades.
There's always veer split belt drive for frames with no CS split
@@xophere I don't think the torque is something belt cannot handle, as shown by Tern Orox R14, a fat bike with belt driven Rohloff hub and mid drive motor. It is more likely they didn't want to change the geometry drastically to account for seatstay split and length of chainstay.
Totally wish that these were accessible. I would definitely have a blast! A slow , steady, crazy off road adventure (or a lifetime of those types of adventures) would be super welcome!
Holy crap. My favorite channel reviewing my original dream bike.
Love it, I have a skid loader and I would say it shares some DNA with the frame of skid loader as well. Add different fork, increase rear wheel space and take out the little handle on seat tube and wa-la… even close in color. I want one living in MN it would be perfect for our massive snowfall! Thank you for the video, great work.
That looks like some crazy fun in the right terrain!
Living in Wisconsin, I would love this thing as a winter bike.
FINALLY! My dreams of someone creating something closest to a modern version of the Hanebrink has come true! I can't believe it... Thank you Surly! ❤
My “vintage” Moonlander is dedicated to taking my kids on the mac ride seat. Nice and secure with those ginormous tires!
Wheel diameter is listed by Surly as 788 mm, or 31.0”. 29x3.0 and 27.5x4’ish measure right about the same.
Now I kinda want to build up a 24” front wheel for my Blackborow with this tire, sort of a reverse mullet. When I punch through a top crust it is always the front first, so it might actually have some value.
Oh man I love the G-spot. I lived in Gunny for a while back in the mid-2000s. This bike is pretty dope. Mixes my new love of bikes, with one of my old hobbies, jeeping/off-roading.
I do see a niche for the 6.2 tires and would be amused to have this. But I only have storage space for my wife and I to have two pairs of bikes so our bikes need to be versatile. Our hard tail trail bikes do everything from blue trail MTBing to 500 miles of RAGBRAI by swapping tires. For all of our bikepacking adventures from C&O canal, Katy, to GDMBR our matched pair of 2018 Surly ECRs have been perfect. 27.5x 3.0 tires are adequate on most loose sand, negate the need for suspension, but aren’t noticeably slower on pavement. In fact we always were able to out coast other bike packers on the GDMBR downhills whether paved, gravel, or rough. The worse the surface the bigger our advantage. The 2x10 drive train is perfect. I wouldn’t “upgrade” to 1x whatever on ECR. The components were spec’d for simple reliability and we enjoy that immensely. On GDMBR we rolled into a CO bike shop with a dozen other SoBo riders. Since the only thing we needed was new chains the bill for our pair of ECRs was far less that what everyone else needed to spend for any one bike.
Using them got bikepacking in FL now. Looking forward to Hurracan in February.
Anyhow, I love these 2018 ECRs, I really don’t understand why Surly messed with the specs on this bike.
I just read your review. What a beautiful beast.
Crazy, I just scored a 2013 Monnlander, and it’s a beast! It’s been super fun to ride on the rutted, sandy trails we have in Northern Florida. My wife had to get off her “non-fattie”bike and walk it through the sections I floated across. My Bud and Lou tires were left at 10 psi but I imagine that they would handle better on these trails with less pressure. I have a 135mm Rohloff on my old Moulton that I’m considering putting on it, and I’m eyeing some bike packing routes in the area….
love that WORM font - go NASA!
Love to see a pinion gearbox on fatbike! My next fatbike will certainly have one. Prominently missing, (to me) is the Gates Carbon belt drive system. This would definitely compliment the Pinion. In order to accommodate the belt drive, I would suspect that the rear stay triangle would have to be more stiff...meaning more weight. I like the longer rear stays that, as you said, adds to stability. I would also like to see the 12 speed Pinion used here. More versatility and, probably, more weight.
Personally, especially given the extreme environments I would likely be using this bike in and the remote location of said environments....I would opt for Paul Klamper mechanical brakes. Overall, this appears to be a great foray into the realm of gearbox driven fatbikes. Curious to see if other mfgrs venture into it. Thanks for a first look into this new machine, done very well as always. Be well.
This feels like a total vibe for the Baja Divide.
I’d use this on my super fine sand in the Florida panhandle that no other fat bike has been able to conquer. I would also use this for riding down railroad tracks where I can quickly exit if need be. Love the pinion. I’m glad Surly is starting to use the pinion gear box.
Florida sugar sand doesn't mess around. Bet the moonlander would do well.
Love these for snow in the winter when the lakes freeze over. Easy to follow the snowmobiles.
I feel like this is some type of personality test. I want one though I would never use it. Nicely done Surly and QBP for letting them build it!
Finaly a bike with long chainstay❤ lets make an Pinion MGU version out of it;)
Definitely what I would want, I guess there are some other small brands that make mid drives and even with motora for pinion mounts
Thank you for your informative and entertaining review! I also own a 2011, on which I completed a tough 2015 Little Su 50K. The extra float of the 6.2” sure is enticing for Alaska!
I love fatbiking! And this bike looks too good to be true! Gotta try it
Nice review! First I've ever watched. Would love to see this bike in person!
Very interesting bike. I would like to try one. Good review covering the needed points.
I'm looking for an around the world bike. This would be cool way in the outback but we'll be on roads a lot too.
Good video - I like the on bike shots/thoughts. And the kayaker interlude was funny.
I love it. My rack just barely fits my 4.6 fat tires. I don’t know what rack could get this thing out to the trails.
Pinion with a chain -> Chefs kiss.
I feel like this is one of those bikes that promises to go anywhere, but you already have to be a crazy good rider to make it work well in the more rugged terrain
This looks like a fun ride! It's cool to see Surly giving the Pinion system a shot. I'd love to see them do that with an all-rounder like the Karate Monkey!
I 2nd that emotion!
Actually Salsa announced the release of the Mukluk as the first fully assembled production Fat-Bike before Surly. But, Surly responded quickly and was able to get the 1st fully assembled ready to ride production Pugsley in showrooms before the Mukluk.
Anyway, I got a first generation Salsa Mukluk and it quickly became my favorite bike. All my other bikes got dusty sitting in the garage. When the Moonlander came out I had to have one! And it was just a blast to ride!
Glad to see Surly bring the Moonlander back!
Surly Pugsleys were around in 2005, and came with cantilever brake mounts in addition to disks. The first Mukluk came about (according to Salsa) in 2011, and it was sold with Surly tires!
Factually speaking, the Surly Pugsley was launched in 2005, and the Salsa Mukluk in 2012. The OG Moonlander was launched 2011. Glad you enjoyed the first gen Moonlander!
@@taknname Thanks. My original post was not specific enough, I have edited it. I was referring to fully assembled ready to ride production fat bikes.
@@kikinikpics Thanks! You are correct, and my original post was poorly worded. I have edited it. I was referring to the first fully assembled ready to ride production fat bike.
@@kikinikpics Thanks! You are correct. My original post was poorly worded and I’ve corrected it. I was referring to the first fully assembled ready to ride fat bike.
Being of the old-school touring gang, you know, panniers and racks, I find humor in 'bikepacking' vs 'bike touring'. That sure looks like a touring rack on the rear. And those tires are cartoonish!... maybe clown shoes instead of sandals?? Thanks Neil and keep up the great reviews. I still love my Ibis Ripley LS bought at ACF in Mpls.
That is wild! I have the Otso Arctodus, with 26” x 5” rubber, and the Moonlander makes that look petite. Go Surly!
love it - will eventually replace the ice cream truck with one of these
I would love to try one of these for dune riding to compare against my Trek Farley. That fine sand is incredibly hard to handle. But I don’t really feel like I had mastered the bike when I tried it. I feel like technique and getting the bike fit just right might be more important than the different tire/rim setups. 45lb+ sounds brutal too! I run about the same pressure ranges as in this video.
Oh, they do it again :) Set up rear hub to the front, make mile-long tail and so on. I love it. In my thoughts fatbike should deliver you to nowhere and be the fun. I own 4" custom Ti-version with Pugs geo and I newer sell it.
Super rad. Probably won't replace my Wednesday, but still super rad.
Love it! I have a Surly Ogre, then Big Dummy and now I just got a tout Terrain Outback explore which is basically slim version of this without he mid tail...I have 27.5x3.8" on that and I love it so this would be super cool to have even though I don't have much sand and snow here I do have rocks but I am thinking I would get the frame to spec out and definitely put one of the bigger pinions on this and a bigger front chainring. I would definitely think about putting an electric motor for more fun 😅 seeing the hubs are the same even a 2x2 ebike would be possible 😂
If there was ever a use-case scenario for an e-bike, this is it. lol Seriously, I understand this is niche, but I think an e-bike version would certainly appeal to a lot of beachcombers.
My first trip on my ICT was the Rubicon trail. I think this might've been a better fit! That much closer to half a rock crawler. But considering most of my riding is single track or gravel/fire roads, I'm definitely happier with my choice. 10lb lighter and $1500 cheaper even after adding the dropper!
I got a chance to ride that Hanebrink bike back in the early 90s at the Keyesville Classic races. It was such an odd experience at the time.
I’m hopeful we’ll see more Pinion Surlys soon!
My dream is a Pinon 29+ ECR in XXL please and thank you.
I feel out of the loop. I’d never even heard of Pinion before.
@speelyeitrickster3822 they're overrated. They last 5x as long as a normal drivetrain but cost 5x as much, and you have to send it in to be serviced/you can't service it yourself. Kinda a sidegrade for people who want it, but not that great tbh.
Pinion MGU, belt driven Surly longtail eBike would be interesting.
Appreciate this video. I'd be curious to see a review of this come winter riding and various terrain it might cover better than your normal fat bike with 4.8" tires if this brings fatbiking to another level. I suspect the customer basis for this is quite small though.
I really am curious with on snow performance too, only a month or so away here in the high country. So if I still have it, I'll let you know.
I would like to see a side by side test between this thing in snow and a carbon salsa fatbike with 4.8 tires in snow. At some point the 46+ pounds will hurt performance no matter how fat the tires are.
Wish my Gen 2 Pugs had the Pinion w Gates belt. Gonna stick w the Pugs; 29 x 3 summer packing, 26 x 4 for snow rides and winter commuting, hard to beat. Just crossed the state line from WY to CO last weekend.
15:19 Is that a rear hub in the front wheel?
I’d definitely be riding riding that monster on the beach when the tide is out.
Though currently if the sand is firm enough I ride my Brompton instead, like I did last week, making multiple criss-crossing patterns (making sure not to get any sand on the rim brake surface).
Why no sand on the rim break surface?
The drivetrain choice is very cool. Never thought they'd do it, but this is the perfect platform. The Skid Loader should have the Pinion MGU instead of Bosch.
Extremely cool rig. Ive been a huge Surly fan for years and i hope it sells well. Some downfalls i see: The price and weight are going to steer many away. 4,000$ for a 46# bike is alot of cake for alot of weight
Kinda want to see a Pinion Wednesday now.
I found out that all the pinion gearboxes use the same frame mount this means that you could chansen the gearbox for a 18 geard one from pinion
Yep
Living 2 miles from Lake Michigan this thing would be great on the beaches. My Trek Farley can do it but man is it a workout.
super minor note, but the tire is pronounced "mo-lend-ah", not "mo-lind-ah". They're named after my brother, Nate Molenda, the old Surly Nate tire was named for him too, he's a big fat bike guy in Minnesota and tight with a lot of the orig surly crew.
Would love to know more about Nate, where can I find him?
@@MrQuestful Nate is a rowdy, fun, outgoing guy in person, but lives almost entirely offline, we’re basically opposites. I’m a roadie running di2, he’s a fat bike guy who doesn’t trust anything with more than nine gears. But I’m still trying to convinced all my friends the tire is named after me all the same. 😁 (there’s only a few dozen Molendas in the US, it’s a bit unusual of a name so I’ve got a shot at convincing my buds)
Love the idea, would really like to take one for a spin in the snow. It looks like my current medium fatbike with a classic A-frame shape would fit more gear in and under the frame where it's nice for snow to keep the weight low.
I love Surly. Suriously. Almost a Midtailbike. Can`t wait for it to a get an offroad touring option!
Question: Is it compatible with the skit loader rack?
Keep it up with this awesome coveragy!
Damn it certainly looks like it would fit, but don't know about the zits to mount it
Seeing a Star Wars font influence on the Moonlander logo. Always curious to see your bike design names. Personal fav: Steamroller
Still ride my single speed Pugs almost daily... this would make an interesting e-bike. 😊
😍😍😍😍😍 Electric that thing with additional gears in the back would climb anything 😂
What if you had a wireless inflator on each wheel and were able to adjust air pressure on the move? If it were mounted at the hub the extra weight would unbalance the rim. A tube running from the pump at the hub to the rim might work. Or does someone already do this?
Definitely what I thought too , they have system for cars that do this with small hoses
BADASS (NEW?). SURLY!!👍💪😎
Talk about timing. I was on Surly's website a couple nights ago and saw the new Moonlander.
I've been considering a new Ice Cream Truck for a while, the new Moonlander takes things to the extreme (in a fantastic way, IMO).
THANKS for the test and review.
Will I dig a little deeper in my pockets to spring for one? 🤔IDK...just yet.😁 It's an intriguing machine to say the very least!
Where would I take my first adventure on one? As much of the Continent Divide Trail as possible, preferably ALL of it!
I want the pinion motor/gearbox and this thing is basically ready for King of Hammers.
In 2030 Surly will mount exercise balls in place of wheels.
My hips hurt just looking at that Q-factor.
I feel like surly has been in a bit of a slump in recent years- great to see them putting out something with new ideas that advances the field as a whole. Just like the old days :)
Steering chatter due to the viscoset? I thought the point of the viscoset was to reduce that kind of vibration. Care to expand on that?
Tubes are like 500g each, tubless fluid is 240g each.
Is/are the BB/pedals really wide? It looks like there is a side mounted extension on the Pinion. I guess what I'm asking is....will it make you go "Bull-legged"? And 29x3.0? Do you think that it could handle the Duro Crux 29x3.25?
Curious why not a gates belt instead of the chain with the pinion.
I’ll buy this just for the look!
This bike looks great but living in Switzerland (where we have lots of hills & mountains) it would be of absolutely no use to me. Except in the winter, but then I’d need to make it an E-Bike to be able to climb the mountain slopes😂 Great review!
I think they made the long tail also to reduce Q-factor. Or it will be huge there.
Looks like fun - cant help but smile - but in the end it seems to me a bike for places I'd be better off hiking than biking.
Really curious how it will do on east coast snow. We don't get that nice crystalline fluffy stuff you get in the rockies. We get dense, wet and heavy frozen mashed potatoes which I found even my 27.5 x 4.2 Giant Yukon struggled with.
And I chose 29 Orox thinking 27.5x4 is too large 😅 Here we go with 6.2" 🍩
I really like the front hub size choice and new gearing system though!
You were riding on the stones on sandals ? Stones can be sharp and painful
the risk was worth the liberation.
@@BIKEPACKINGcom Since my fatty is a recumbent trike, I have to clip in. Shimano sandals work great.
I like my 26x4 fat ebikes -
didnt think Id like fat tires, but I got the ebike & found it was more stable & made me more confident on gravel n dirt than my mtb that has 1.75 wide tires.
so yeah I like the fatties for my rides are mostly off road [un paved] I like 15 PSI for my gravel/dirt rides.
Interesting Frankenstein. However, nothing beats the Extreme Terrain bike for me 😂
While an interesting bike, for me, having owned the Surly ICT with MDS at one point and now own a Salsa Beargrease, I'm just about done with the fat bike "itch". Even though the Beargrease works pretty well here in Colorado during snow season, I just don't find myself riding the bike much the rest of a year. As I get older, I prefer to go a bit faster...so the Beargrease will be going up for sale.
Not my cup of tea but I've always admired the Moonlander.
Fascinating how the tire looks stationary at around 3:12. Did you intentionally match the revolutions of the tire to the camera's shutter speed?
My Pugsley with 4 inch tires does just fine
Doesn’t Pinion now make a combination motor/gearbox? I wonder if it would mount in the same “bottom bracket”. I’m not really an e-bike fan, but for a 46 lb bike, my aging body might need it soon.
Neil, is this the ITI rig? I could definitely see it being perfect for that soft "greasy" snow. Like the long wheel base...kinda "meh" with the 24" wheel but get why. Its not going to replace my 9Zero7 with 105mm carbon hoops, but it could be the best expedition fat bike for snow. Also, your descriptions of ride quality and behavior are perfect.
Cool! I wonder if it would beg for electric assist?