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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ค. 2024
- The BLACK BAT came out a few weeks after BATMAN. DC COMICS and BETTER PUBLICATIONS threatened each other with lawsuits. The two publishers worked out their differences and the Black Bat ran in Pulp Magazines from 1939 until 1953.
A man who loses his sight, gains super senses and becomes a vigilante? That also sounds like Daredevil. I would not be surprised if Stan Lee had read these stories
One is an attorney and the other is a district attorney. More coincidences.
Nearly every Marvel and DC character is copied from pulp heroes with Doc Savage bring the inspiration for both Superman and Fantastic Four.
they also ripped him for Two Face, guy gets acid thrown at him by criminals for doing his job
@@FirstnameLastname-my7bz Yeah, and Haleyquin (pines) copied the Joker.
I was thinking Daredevil too.
So basically, the same guy who invented Zorro, also laid the groundwork for Batman, Sandman, and Daredevil
The amount of pulp content that Marvel & DC creators "took inspiration" from is staggering.
If it wasn't for Bill Finger there'd be two bat themed lost heroes.
4:20 For those of us who wondered what Batman would be like if he wasn't a billionaire.
I like the 're-enactment' bits. If you want to do a full Black Bat fanfilm, I think you could get a lot of viewers.
The vintage feel of the reenactment was very cool. Hoping you'll do your own Black Bat serial series!
Catwoman was also inspired by Heddy Lemarr. Two face was inspired by the spencer tracy version of Jekel and Hyde
The Batman creators basically ripped off the pulps to make Batman. The Bat, Black Bat, The Shadow and Zorro all were clearly inspirations for Batman.
Didn’t the Black Bat hit stands at the same time as Batman though?
So Stan Lee ripped off the pulp to make Spiderman? (See The Spider pulp magazine)?
@@Carlos-xz3vi no. Black Cat hit the stands way earlier.
Like to see The Black Bat movie. It is obvious that Bob Kane created Batman off this character and Zorro.
Oh stop. "Ripped" off. The shadow and zorro? Cease your fucking reaching
Those re-enactments really made the video and sets it above all others in this genre in production quality. It also doesn’t require a large collection of wigs (shout out to Sasha of Casually Comics)
Thanks Kelly! I would love to try to do more re-enactments in the future. The hardest part of the re-enactments was getting everybody together to shoot the scenes. Everyone's schedules were different. The other difficult (and costly) part was finding a cowl that worked. I went through five other attempts before I came across the Flash cowl.
The pulps had so many great underappreciated writers
Me: “Mom can we have Batman?”
Mom: “We have Batman at home.”
Batman at home:
We need to return to the old days of pulp
Yup. We need more blatant racism, poor characterization and repetitive plots for sure.
I love the format for this character. I would love to see a crossover with Batman meeting the Black Bat in some alternate reality.
What a job you are doing here. Congratulations.
I am from Germany and I know the Black Bat (in German: Die schwarze Fledermaus) so long years. I have some old novels from him in my collection. In this novels can Mr Quin after the Operation see in the night how other peoples in the daylight. For me was Batman from DC not the realy Hero. He was a Imitator. But his story is good, too.
I can see how Fox was an inspiration for The Penguin.
He had a terrible reputation within the industry. He would often have writers and artists workung in terrible conditions and was known for not paying salaries, often counting on the artists being too broke to aford a lawyer to sue him. He would also use any scheme imaginable to avoid paying the printing presses themselves.
This was all in line to his previous endeavors before starting his comic book company, which was scamming people by starting fake companies.
He had in The Blue Beetle one of the most popular characters of the Golden Age, with its own radio show, but squandered it all to make a quick buck, losing the character to Holyoke to pay a debt then suing them to get the character back.
In short, Fox was an absolute scumbag, and he is remembered as such.
Currently working on a Fox video. You would not believe the schemes that guy pulled off. The man was a master con-artist.
I'll look forward to it. @@FizzFop1
The Bat sounds like a combo of Batman and Sandman.
I got The Black Bat Archives: Volume 1 recently.
According to the introduction, he was originally going to be call "The Tiger," but was changed to "The Black Bat," so it would coincide with the "Black Book Detective" magazine they had acquired.
Edit: I should mention I can't find a refrence to this fact on the Fandom or Wikipedia page.
Man! What a history lesson! I love learning about obscure superheroes! I tend to ignore the more mainstream superheroes, such as Batman, Spider-Man, Superman, Womder Woman, Captain America, an so on. Mostly because everyone knows about those heroes. We’re already very familiar with their origin stories and publication histories. But when it comes to obscure superheroes, ones that have been lost in the publication archives, it makes learning about them all the more interesting, and far more exciting. I wish there were more historians like you, who dig into the obscure and the unknown.
Gage Crawley I agree! While I watch a bunch of comic youtubers’ videos there is something fascinating in these videos that focus on and explore forgotten superheroes or the lesser known creators that have been left in the shadow of the likes of Stan Lee. That’s why I love these mini documentaries by FizzFop and the videos by Chris from ComicTropes.
Gage I've been teaching the history of comics for the last ten years. Check out my website www.professorcomic.com. Plenty of comic history there.
I really enjoyed the reenactments. They bring a higher quality to the overall enjoyment of the production.
Hmmm? Criminals left with a bat brand. Hmm? I wonder where I’ve seen that.
Batman was based on Zorro to name one influence. Batman's secret identity is Bruce Wayne. Zorro's is Don Diego. Batman and Zorro are both vigilantes. The Zorro novels were already out before Batman was concieved. The first Zorro movie was Mark Of Zorro starring Douglas Fairbanks Sr. in 1920. The similarities are too great to be an accident.. Bob Kane said himself that he read the Zorro books and had seen the 1920 movie. The characters are similar even though the time periods are different.
Many Superheroes are based on Zorro not just that overrated moron but Zorro association with Batman should stop Zorro incorporates hystorical content you don't have to bring him up when you say about Batman and definitely not the other way around
Black Bat was actually one of my favorite comic book superheros growing up!
It's funny how both The Bat and Batman got the idea to strike fear into the hearts of criminals via a bat that flies in through a window, were framed for the crimes of a villain and branded criminals with a "bat symbol".
Also, an attorney who gets acid thrown in his face and goes on a violent one-man war against the criminals who wronged him? Sounds like Two-Face.
Bob Kane was known for not ever creating Batman.Bill Finger had more to do with it.
Bob Kane created the name, Bill Finger created everything else.
I've read twelve of the original Black Bat pulp novels from the 1940s, and the character really does come across like a mash-up of Batman and Daredevil with a bit of Two-Face thrown in for his origin. The costume and guns are like 1939 Batman (and the pulp version of the Shadow indirectly) while his superhuman senses are very reminiscent of Daredevil (although the night vision angle is more like Dr. Mid-Nite from the JSA). The Black Bat's villains are a lot less interesting than other pulp heroes like the Shadow, Doc Savage or the Spider though, and the Black Bat's assistants are kind of generic (pretty but tough girl, big bruiser and conman/master of disguise). Also, the fact that several members of the police force seem to have deduced that Tony Quinn is really the Black Bat but never seem to be able to do anything about it is kind of weird.
Most notable publushers of recent years being both Moonstone and Dynamite Entertainment; the latter used him for the Pulp teamup adatation of the Spider's Black Legion arc (MASKS) and the 2013 modernization of the character which only lasted a full year
First-class presentation and thoroughly well researched. Yes, didn't you know it? The history goes back much further than we had been led to believe. Bob Kane always came across to me as a well-practised bullshitter who largely invented his own backstory of events as the years progressed right up to the present day. Now at long last, the evidence is here before us in pulp comic book form and can no longer be ignored. Bravo to the producers of this short movie documentary! Well done indeed!
Thanks Geoff. There's a really interesting documentary on Bill Finger that was on Netflix. I think it might be called Batman and Bill. It really goes over how Kane took credit for everything and Bill Finger was left out in the cold. Finger's story is very sad and Kane was no where to help him out.
It was good this is the first time I've heard of the Black Bat and I collect Batman and Detective comics plus the Shadow,Green Hornet and Doc Savage
The idea of Batman was definitely stolen from this guy as well as the Red Hood.
Always thought Marvel's Daredevil had some uncanny similarities to the Black Bat
I would say that DC s character Doctor Midnight is more of a direct tipoff of the Black Bat (super night vision) ,,, Daredevil
has no vision at all, just his radar sense.
Awesome video, this was very interesting and worth knowing! If The Black Bat never came into existence I guess its safe to say Batman would never been a thing! But the funny thing I've noticed in this video there was a comic called Catman (@11:40) and I remembered Adam West (1960s Batman) voiced for the character Catman in the animated series The Fairly Odd Parents 😂😂😂 Could you do a piece on Catman for us? 😎👍🐱 Side note: I never had a clue Catman was a real comic I thought it was a parody for the Fairly Odd Parents show and they chosen Adam West since he was Batman back in the day
You could reenact Gotham by Gaslight next. 1800s Batman? Hmmmmmm?
Absolutely fascinating!
Nice b&w scenes as well. Very good old film look!
Recently got a copy of the Dynamite Comics version because I got curious when I watched this video back in 2020 I think, I actually loved it and would buy some more. Thanks for educating me about this hero
Great video. It's interesting how intertwined the history of the two characters is.
I really liked the reenactments. I could imagine them having made a film serial of the Black Bat in the 40s if not for the success of Batman.
This perfect for when you have little to no art work on a rare and obscure character.
This story was VERY enlightening, and I enjoyed the recreation of the characters and stories, giving it that old 30s serials vibe!
Hi comicfan72! That old movie serial feel is what I was going for.
This re-enactment was quite well done, I thought. Keep up the great work!
"DC agreed not to go into the pulp magazine business."
But Harry Donenfeld, who "owned" National Allied Publications, was also publishing pulp magazines, the Trojan. Culture, and Arrow lines.
(Donenfeld took great pains to keep the connection between his "Spicy" pulps separate from his "kid-friendly" comic books.)
The history of the pulp magazines and comic books is complex.
The owners, financiers, distributors, and printers all overlap.
Two publishers with different street addresses could actually be sharing office space because many corner office buildings in NYC had addresses on both streets.
Hi Richard! Thanks for watching! Tracking pulp publishers is crazy. The thing about Donenfeld was that he barely got acquitted of pornography charges in Indianapolis. He came real close to doing hard time. Luckily for him, Action Comics came out and he found a new direction to follow. By 1939, he was already downsizing the pulp lines and replacing it with comics. I go into more detail about Donenfeld and the Spicy Pulps in my Domino Lady video. Check it out when you get a chance.
Donenfeld was running Trojan Publishing Corp.'s Speed titles until 1949.
"By 1939, he was already downsizing the pulp lines and replacing it with comics."
He ran his pulp and comic lines as separate businesses. He took great efforts to hide the fact the Spicy and Speed pulps were under the same corporate umbrella as his wholesome comic books.
I admit I don't know much about Trojan. I'll have to read up on them sometime. I don't believe the DC publishing line moved in pulps. Their adventure heroes were pretty close to the adventure heroes in Pines pulps. That's probably what Donenfeld and Pines agreed to. Did Trojan have any characters in line with DC Comics? I need to read up on that.
DAMN! Night Vision, "Spidie Senses" and Superman like strength??? He's better than the modern day Batman😎😂!
CORRECTION- Carole Baldwin was NOT the daughter of the scientist. Her father was a police chief slain in the line of duty. It was HIS eyes that were transplanted into Quinn. The scientist had done secret experiements that would give someone the ability to see in the dark, and added that in. This surgery did NOT enhance his strength. The Black Bat's only unique ability was to see in the dark, along with enhanced senses from the time he was blind. that's it.
ALSO, he did NOT wear a cowl. He has a full face mask, unlike what is shown on the covers. The Black Bat stories and comics from Airship 27 make sure to get this correct, while others do not.
Superhero Black Bat's origin combines elements of Daredevil's and to a certain degree, Harvey "Two Face" Dent's. Craziness
After watching this video I researched it a bit. It turns out Harvey Dent, or Harvey Kent as he was originally called, may have been a kind of insult by DC in there fued over which bat was the true batman.
I knew Batman was a copy The Scarlet Pimpernel , the Zorro, the Phantom , The Shadow , the bat 1926 movie but I didn't know about this other character called the Black Bat and also popular detective the Bat
I found your portrayals to be satisfactory.the historical information you've
provided priceless
thank you
Awesome video! Thanks. Informative and entertaining. I loved the extra special live-action re-enactments! Keep up the great work!
Interesting video. I was unaware of the Pines pulps and comics. I was equally unaware of the connection between Batman and the Black Bat. I enjoyed this and will keep watching.
there is also connection to Daredevil and Two Face
Nice job on the video, I like the hero reenactments that you did, and perfect music to go along with it. Since I have seen your video, I have begun to read the Black Bat.
CORRECTION- Black Bat Mysteries was NOT published by Pines/Thrilling. It was published by Berryman Press. I've NEVER heard that Berryman was owned by Pines.
These are awesome mini documentaries.
thank you fellow, as a fan of The Batman, I learned a few things I didn't before. And, the reenactments were darn good. Kudos to you all!
Great character.
In the last couple years I've found some reprints of his pulp stories.
Surprised he never got a cliffhanger serial. Seems like a character that would have been perfect.
I plan on doing my own story with all 3 of the public domain Black Bat characters. This was very helpful with my research so thanks for this.
Hi WARwrestling! Let me know how it goes. I've found myself drawing these characters as well.
NOT IF I DO IT FIRST
ITS A RACE
Excellent video, really enjoyed the recreations!
Freaking fascinating! The history of the start of comics, the rivalries the back biting the competition, the fights over IPs, just mind blowing! Great stuff!
Man, I loved everything about this episode. Everything. All the details, the guy dressed as Black Belt, it's everything amazing. Now I wanna see a web series with this character. Thanks from a Brazilian fan and now subscriber.
I really liked the reenactments.
Dude!!!, that screech!!!, a warning for earphone users...!!!
Oh and, yes to the reenactments...
The record scratch sound makes this unwatchable for me
Very cool -- I'd never known any of this. As a kid in the late 1950-s early 60's, I can tell ya that by that time, pulp fiction mags were all but dead and gone. We were buying comics -- at ten cents apiece.
Im glad someone else shares my enjoyment of the golden age heroes
I really hope you find time to make these more often; this episode was brilliant!
I like the live action costumes. I don't think they should be there 100% of the time but nice for some of them.
The Black Bat cosplay are are amazing
I loved ❤️ that you made live action recreational of "The Black Bat" 🦇 story lines... love your work kept doing a great just
Thanks, I keep saying I'm going to do live action again...but I just haven't committed the time to do it. Also, I haven't come across a character to inspire me to go through the time and energy it takes.
@@FizzFop1 hey it would just be cool if you read a whole BlackBat story or Lady Domino she sounded cool too
Cool video 👍👍👍👍👍 I think DC needs to aquire The Black Bat and put him in one of the 52 universes.
I loved those old pulp comics. Used to travel for miles to get a copy each week :)
The Black Bat and Batman fear only Ozzy Ozbourne.
I suppose they fear all Chinese people now...
This is the Fly in the ointment about creators getting huge pcts and full rights is the fact that even a creation as old as Batman is clearly 75%. ( or more) copied
Love everything just now know who the real Batman is!!! Black bat has a new fan 🌚🕵️♂️🖤🦇
I have read The Bat and The Bat Returns and they are well written and meet the high standards of the pulp genre. The story is fast paced and the character is engaging and the action is intense. Such type of heroes are now very in need today. Pulp heroes were the image of the age in which they were born and today's heroes are more gritty without the central core of classical hero image.
Hi Bob! I believe that The Bat was the work of Johnston McCulley. He still has a very loyal fan base who loves his work...I've been wanting to read some of his stuff for quite some time. I just finished reading Robert E. Howard's Conan stories...they were amazing. I agree with what you're saying about today's heroes. One thing I notice missing with a lot of current comic book heroes is that they are lacking a personal code of honor. The focus is more on grittiness and mindless violence...violence for violence sake. The actual reason for violence or the lament of violence is missing
@@FizzFop1 I agree. Currently I am developing a novel around a pulp styled hero. I have been a fan of the pulps, The Shadow, The Avenger, Doc Savage and The Spider. I am very glad I found your channel and can be counted as a new subscriber.
Thanks Bob! I appreciate your support! I should have some new videos out soon!
@@FizzFop1 , Kenshiro of Hokuto no Ken/Fist of the North Star is in a violent franchise, but still has a code of honor.
Very informative great job love your channel
Pines wasn't unique in setting up multiple publishing lines. Others did the same for the reasons you gave. Early on it was also done to protect the companies as if a title failed, creditors might take the whole company to get payment. So having separate companies would protect them. Later on this was dropped as publishers became more stable.
Keep doing what you're doing brother. 👍 I love your videos and your channel, great stuff. I hope you get well Darrin, my family & I are praying for you.
Hi Gil! Thanks for watching! I'm doing well. Recovering from a second surgery. I'm still a little sore. I've been quadruple checked with scans, blood tests, x-rays, and they shoved a camera up my a$$...they all say the same thing...I'm cancer free! Hopefully I will be around to make videos for years to come. Thank you for your prayers!
A very good piece of history.
An extremely interesting wander down memory lane. Full marks to all involved.
Some coments are focusing on the comparsions on Batman and who ripped off who. Personally, I think its not a question between the Black Bat and Batman. Its more of a question between Batman and The Spider.
The Spider came out years before Batman did, by the time Batman came out, The Spider was already a popular, established character, with a successful film serial.
As a character The Spider is:
A millionaire that has a crime fighting persona he uses at night, using it to strike fear on criminals.
Has gadgets invented by a third party especially for him (one of them an unbreakable rope to climb)
Has a servant that knows his secret idenity and has combat experience to help him in his secret mission.
A master of disguise, he has an identity he uses to infiltrate the underworld, "Blinky" McQuade, similar to how Batman poses as "Matches" Malone to infiltrate the underworld too.
He has a long selection of supervillains with theme names like The Fly who is a recurring enemy, or in some cases enemies that take him several issues and stories to track down and defeat, like Tang-Akhmut, the Living Pharaoh. Others include The Master, The Red Mandarin, The Bloody Serpent and The Master.
All of these traits and tropes were well established by The Spider well before Batman or the Black Bat came out. If Batman ripped off someone, then it was The Spider, not the Black Bat.
Batman's initial issue is a blatant plagiarism of one of the pulp hero The Shadow's books the ''Partners of Peril'', look up The Rageaholic's series entitled ''Enter The Shadow'' where he brings up this fact. You'll enjoy it and learn about the sire of the superheroes.
100% right
@@frazergreen6786 The shadow is himself a rip off of the Judex, Zorro and the scarlet pimpernel, the shadow is less original then even the character he inspired batman. Calling him the sire of superheros is a bit ridiculous.
Great video! We're doing a short film of The Black Bat and this helped a lot! Also loved the reenactments! Liked the scene where they perform the operation on his eyes! Was gonna ask if we could use that as inspiration for the operation scene in our short film? If that's ok with you?
Hi RPS! Thanks for watching! It's okay. I would be honored. By the way, that medical device was a hand held strobe light from BigLots inside a coffee can I painted black. The arm it was on was from a broken lamp. lol! As for lighting, I used a single source4 light hanging directly above the table. Other costumes and props were goggles, doctor costume, and white sheets over the table and patient.
Awesome! I'll share the link when it's finished!
The cut-ins created engagement and offered cohesion in a stylistically relevant way... A+. The storytelling was well executed, information well presented, and clarity abounded. There's care in your craft that's not just money funneled into making something look good. Full props and thanks!
Thanks c.e.!
April 18, 2019---Thanks for the video as I never hear of these pulp characters. At 65, used to read Superman/Batman comic books as a kid when I had a paper route in Homestead, Florida starting in 1960. At the time, they were 10 cents each and then came that new comic book company called Marvel with Spiderman and Daredevil being my favorites. The X-Men was too weird for me and the Fantastic Four was okay. About cried when prices went to12 cents, but still bought 'em. Think I had about 300 comic books when we moved to Calif. (Dad was in the Air Force) and mom had the job of driving us (5 kids & a dog) there in our station wagon. Told me we couldn't take them, they weren't worth anything and no room in the station wagon for them. The movers got my collection. Thought I'd see what happened to The Bat and Ebay has reprints of the magazines. As for William F Jenkins Sideway in Time book, it's an audio book via Amazon, Barnes & Noble, etc. There is a paperback of another of his stories called Space Tug via Amazon for $2.95.While I never read any of the pulp magazines, I sure as heck loved their covers.
this is the kind of comic book history I've been craving. keep it up.
the re-enactments were great! I didn't think they were original cinema because the quality was too high.
Hi Skot! Yeah, that was done by me and some friends...it took a few days to shoot...months trying to put a costume together. I had a real hard time finding the cowl for the costume that looked good on camera.
Thank you for posting these. I'd hate to see some of these historic characters die off over time.
You're welcome and thank you Albert for watching!!!
This was well put together and very knowledgeable. Keep up the great work.
Being interested in platinum & golden age, this is a treasure trove of information. Fantastic in depth history. Great video.👍
Platinum age!?
Outstanding... Very well done.
you did really good job on making this video.
I love the black bat.
I really enjoyed the re-enactments and would love to see more of this kind of work.
I really like the way they explained the Origin of the black Bat as if it was a live action movie or T.V series
Outstanding video. I've been reading Superhero Comics since I was a lil' kid. In my late 30's now. And lately been going towards more classical "heroes" such as Conan, The Shadow, John Carter and The Spider. The Black Bat has caught my eye as of late. Along with Sheena and Vampirella. The no-kill rule for modern heroes has gotten old. There's only so many times you can read the same Batman "story" from DC before you get bored. It's like the modern superhero is inept for not permanently solving the villains plaguing their cities.
Glad you liked the video. I can't wait to show you what I'm working on. I think it's going to blow people's mind.
This is another great episode. I liked the re-enactment of the Black Bat story.
THE GOLDEN BAT!!!
The reenactment was pretty good. Thanks for the info.
He might as well be called Bat-Devil now since both Batman and Dare Devil lifted major elements from it.
There's a silent movie,The Bat, made in 1927 I think. He's a villain in that one. Long befor Bat Man comic.
You should reenactment a entire pulp story of this hearo
Like the reenactments, unique element to your channel! Also appreciate the history of an otherwise obscure time period. Keep up the good work!
Great episode of Lost Hero- , the reenactment was great! Thankx for uploading & sharing.
Fun video. I really liked the live action segments.
They were fun to do...I'm planning on doing them again for a future episode.
Another GREAT video!!....Thank You!!