As a CFII (as well as a professional corporate pilot ), these video seminars are truly excellent. I would suggest holds and arcs for future topic material
@@Boldmethod I concur; With an interest in how the person whom is not by nature attracted to machinery and equipment relies; *Seems to rely* on _push button automation_ rather than what is way too easily mistaken «decisions» based on feel • The recent disaster event which is getting flurry of non-informed work seems to be they were reading the manual when they should have been flying the air-frame
*these videos are amazing, and some of my favorites for studying. Was so confused about completing a Procedure Turn on my lesson 2 days ago, but this video is making me feel ready for tonight to try it all again! thank you* :)
Great Video, ran this approach in the msfs2020 sim many times, a lot of fun and you learn a lot. Question, I've tried this approach without the use of my GPS, simply using VOR headings. But how would a pilot know how far he is from this runway, in this example its Runway 17. Using VOR/DME its tells me when I'm 4 miles "From the actual VOR itself" not the runway. This messed up a few of my approaches because I started my 4 mile adding flaps and gear down and I came in too high and fast. When I did it again using GPS, that was accurate, it told me I was exactly 4 miles from runway 17 and I was able to coordinate slowing he plane altitude and speed successfully. Just wonder how did pilots do this in bad weather without GPS?
Interestingly enough, for the Kalispell ILS approach, a NOTAM lists the NDB as out of service. So you'd have to use RNAV or DME to know when you reach the start of the PT.
My question is, Krhi vor dme 27 approach, i will be arriving at pepvy(iaf) from south but would like to continue to RHI vor, (rhi vor not iaf) than fly feeder route outbound to DAPAC (if) do procedure turn and come in round for landing, can I do that since RHI is not a aip?
Instead of overshooting the VOR to intercept the outbound course, why not execute a PT such as a teardrop at the VOR in order to stay inside the protected area of the published hold? @27:20 Also, isn’t it depicted as a required PT at the VOR?
First of all thanks for your excellent videos and explanations. Truly helpful and clear! I would like to ask a question about this particular video at 27:11! When you show as an example the entry on the procedure from roughly track 142M, in Europe I believe we cannot do what you have drawn. (please, correct me if I'm wrong...). Because in this case we are not approaching the VOR through the direct entry area for procedure turns (in accordance with ICAO 8168 Vol 1, would be 30 degrees each side of the outbound track which in turn would be between tracks 016-30 = 346 and 016+30 = 046). In this case we would have to entry the holding which assuming you have drawn track 142, we can choose teardrop or parallel, and only then we can proceed to the outbound track. Would you agree with this, or is this something that is not applicable in the US ? Many thanks.
How would you fly Krhi vor approach rwy 27 starting at vor (not iaf) you would have tinget cleared to start not on iaf even though it's a feeder route?
Studying this in August 2021 - has SAK NDB been decommissioned since the making of this video? I could not find it on the ILS/LOC 02 at KGPI any more (~46:00)
Can you look at the VOR 15 into KMKT? Let's say you're coming in from the NE at 3500 ft, and you cross the VOR (which is the IAF). Even though there is a holding pattern over the VOR, from this video I would assume you would only need to start a turn outbound to start the procedure turn, and you could completely ignore making any holding entry maneuvers? This also assumes you're flying with just traditional VOR equipment, and for training purposes, this scenario disregards the more likely scenario of vectors to final from ATC. Also, you said as soon as you cross the PT fix, which in this case is the MKT VOR, you're immediately offered protection (even if you're not on the protected side. Where can you find these protection limits?
Love this video, but I have a question at 30:37. The chart says to turn at 10 NM from VOR. In the video it turns at 8,2 DME. Is that correct procedure, or should you go further out?
Jeezzz if they bother you don't use them. The short answer is that the FAA assumes someone somewhere still has the old equipment and can use the old approaches. They have plenty of incentive to decommission older navaids. Having your instructor give you DME approaches when you have a GNS 430 or similar is another problem. PS the authors of this video have a good page on the subject: www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly/navigation/the-faa-is-shutting-down-308-vors/
@@asfalling4534 So your car is rolling along and you step on the brakes to stop from hitting a car in front of you. The brakes don't work. What do you do? What's your backup?
@@scottfranco1962 I don't fly, so I don't use them. Should the FAA be basing its design of the air system based on what somebody used to use 50 or 100 years ago? Seems backward.
@@markhathaway9456 This statement seems to conflict with your last statement about backup (as in VOR is backup for GPS). Anyways, yes, the FAA VOR system is around 50 years old. I don't think the majority of airlines use nor much care about the GPS system, even now. They don't have to. Airliners fly airways defined by VORs, and land using ILS systems. The FAA cares far more about airliners than us FLIBs. The article I cited above giving the criteria for keeping VORs dovetails nicely with the continued support of airline VOR service, so its going to be around for a while.
That tricky question about getting blown out by wind presents such an odd situation: how do you know you’re too far out: GPS/DME, which means you’ve had GPS/DME to fly the PT, which means you would have used it to start the PT in the first place.
They'l most often clear you to an intermediate fix with a crossing altitude and tell you to expect vectors where you'll be put on a 30° intercept to final. And I would not give credit for a holding pattern for currency by way of executing a procedure turn. We need to see timing standard rate turns proficiency demonstrated as well as knowledge of a proper entry. I did not hear an answer to the entry to a DEM arc at places other than defined fixes. I'm thinking maybe not if there are varying safe altitudes in the sector and that you would ask for vectors instead to the intermediate fix
Those marker beacons are disappearing fast. I can't find any on local approaches anymore. Kinda sad.... I miss the beep beep beep on approaches, its like finding an old friend.
I wish we could have picked a different VOR. My patriotic brain is twitching every time I hear "liberal"...hahaha I wonder if the taxpayer is going to pay for my flight training?1 Oh, thats right, they are doing away with flying for the peasants. ;)
![“อ.เบียร์ คนตื่นธรรม” มาตามคำเรียกร้อง แหกศาสตร์ฮวงจุ้ย เตือนสติอย่างมงาย | แฉ 7 พ.ย. 67 [1/3]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5fc4S3xBNfc/mqdefault.jpg)
As a CFII (as well as a professional corporate pilot ), these video seminars are truly excellent. I would suggest holds and arcs for future topic material
Thanks Michael!
@@Boldmethod I concur; With an interest in how the person whom is not by nature attracted to machinery and equipment relies; *Seems to rely* on _push button automation_ rather than what is way too easily mistaken «decisions» based on feel • The recent disaster event which is getting flurry of non-informed work seems to be they were reading the manual when they should have been flying the air-frame
Very good information! Thanks. I’m getting ready for my IFR checkride and you answered my questions on procedure turns!
This is by far the best discussion I have ever seen/heard on procedure turns!! Glad I can across your youtube site..
Excellent seminar. I learned so much with a better understanding of how to fly these procedures.
Fantastic refresher material. I can't believe you make this available freely. Thanks!
I'm studying for my instrument now and absolutely love your content. Ty.
superb!!! One of the best of YT. and thank you for not having annoying bee bop musak in the background
Thank you very much for producing such well illustrated tutorials! Safe flights to you!
*these videos are amazing, and some of my favorites for studying. Was so confused about completing a Procedure Turn on my lesson 2 days ago, but this video is making me feel ready for tonight to try it all again! thank you* :)
Thanks for this. Not sure if they cover it more later, but its the first thing I've come accross in Kings course I was not satisfied with.
Excellent video going into details. Thank you guys!
Thank you for these videos. Keep em coming!
Great Video, ran this approach in the msfs2020 sim many times, a lot of fun and you learn a lot. Question, I've tried this approach without the use of my GPS, simply using VOR headings. But how would a pilot know how far he is from this runway, in this example its Runway 17. Using VOR/DME its tells me when I'm 4 miles "From the actual VOR itself" not the runway. This messed up a few of my approaches because I started my 4 mile adding flaps and gear down and I came in too high and fast. When I did it again using GPS, that was accurate, it told me I was exactly 4 miles from runway 17 and I was able to coordinate slowing he plane altitude and speed successfully. Just wonder how did pilots do this in bad weather without GPS?
Absolutely fantastic thank you for the help 👏🏼
Excellent video. Thank you for sharing
I wish this guy was my dad so I could just ask him questions all the time
Interestingly enough, for the Kalispell ILS approach, a NOTAM lists the NDB as out of service. So you'd have to use RNAV or DME to know when you reach the start of the PT.
Zach - We've found that situation several times. In tonight's show, that's the case as we fly into North Bend for the ILS RWY 04...
Awesome explanation , thank you .
My question is,
Krhi vor dme 27 approach, i will be arriving at pepvy(iaf) from south but would like to continue to RHI vor, (rhi vor not iaf) than fly feeder route outbound to DAPAC (if) do procedure turn and come in round for landing, can I do that since RHI is not a aip?
Excellent instructional video!
Instead of overshooting the VOR to intercept the outbound course, why not execute a PT such as a teardrop at the VOR in order to stay inside the protected area of the published hold? @27:20
Also, isn’t it depicted as a required PT at the VOR?
What is the name of the app you’re using at 28:20?
First of all thanks for your excellent videos and explanations. Truly helpful and clear! I would like to ask a question about this particular video at 27:11! When you show as an example the entry on the procedure from roughly track 142M, in Europe I believe we cannot do what you have drawn. (please, correct me if I'm wrong...). Because in this case we are not approaching the VOR through the direct entry area for procedure turns (in accordance with ICAO 8168 Vol 1, would be 30 degrees each side of the outbound track which in turn would be between tracks 016-30 = 346 and 016+30 = 046). In this case we would have to entry the holding which assuming you have drawn track 142, we can choose teardrop or parallel, and only then we can proceed to the outbound track. Would you agree with this, or is this something that is not applicable in the US ? Many thanks.
Amazing video, thank you! At 30:42 you talk about wind at altitude. How am I supposed to figure out the wind without modern avionics?
foreflight subscription, or AWC on your phone's internet browser does the trick
How would you fly Krhi vor approach rwy 27 starting at vor (not iaf) you would have tinget cleared to start not on iaf even though it's a feeder route?
Made it so easy thanks!
Studying this in August 2021 - has SAK NDB been decommissioned since the making of this video? I could not find it on the ILS/LOC 02 at KGPI any more (~46:00)
Excellent excellent excellent !!!
Can you please explain further reference 11:45 do whatever you want to get on final as long as your in the protected area?
Great Video. Thanks
Can you look at the VOR 15 into KMKT? Let's say you're coming in from the NE at 3500 ft, and you cross the VOR (which is the IAF). Even though there is a holding pattern over the VOR, from this video I would assume you would only need to start a turn outbound to start the procedure turn, and you could completely ignore making any holding entry maneuvers? This also assumes you're flying with just traditional VOR equipment, and for training purposes, this scenario disregards the more likely scenario of vectors to final from ATC. Also, you said as soon as you cross the PT fix, which in this case is the MKT VOR, you're immediately offered protection (even if you're not on the protected side. Where can you find these protection limits?
I learned a lot thanks sir
This keeps me sharp.
thank you. Very helpful.
Love this video, but I have a question at 30:37. The chart says to turn at 10 NM from VOR. In the video it turns at 8,2 DME. Is that correct procedure, or should you go further out?
The chart says to remain within 10 miles. If you started your turn at 10 you would be outside the published procedure.
Thanks guys
this is something i'm clueless on and need good help with, on how to choose the correct SID/STAR, how to read it and fly it...
I'm curious if GPS is good enough for the FAA to ground all the VOR and DMEs to simplify the life of pilots.
always have a back up
Jeezzz if they bother you don't use them.
The short answer is that the FAA assumes someone somewhere still has the old equipment and can use the old approaches. They have plenty of incentive to decommission older navaids.
Having your instructor give you DME approaches when you have a GNS 430 or similar is another problem.
PS the authors of this video have a good page on the subject:
www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly/navigation/the-faa-is-shutting-down-308-vors/
@@asfalling4534 So your car is rolling along and you step on the brakes to stop from hitting a car in front of you. The brakes don't work. What do you do? What's your backup?
@@scottfranco1962 I don't fly, so I don't use them.
Should the FAA be basing its design of the air system based on what somebody used to use 50 or 100 years ago? Seems backward.
@@markhathaway9456 This statement seems to conflict with your last statement about backup (as in VOR is backup for GPS). Anyways, yes, the FAA VOR system is around 50 years old. I don't think the majority of airlines use nor much care about the GPS system, even now. They don't have to. Airliners fly airways defined by VORs, and land using ILS systems. The FAA cares far more about airliners than us FLIBs. The article I cited above giving the criteria for keeping VORs dovetails nicely with the continued support of airline VOR service, so its going to be around for a while.
Fabulous!
That tricky question about getting blown out by wind presents such an odd situation: how do you know you’re too far out: GPS/DME, which means you’ve had GPS/DME to fly the PT, which means you would have used it to start the PT in the first place.
Why can’t lead the turn over the vor
Instead of flying past it and turn back towards your outbound?
The GPI ILS procedure has changed since this video. It's my home airport
They'l most often clear you to an intermediate fix with a crossing altitude and tell you to expect vectors where you'll be put on a 30° intercept to final. And I would not give credit for a holding pattern for currency by way of executing a procedure turn. We need to see timing standard rate turns proficiency demonstrated as well as knowledge of a proper entry. I did not hear an answer to the entry to a DEM arc at places other than defined fixes. I'm thinking maybe not if there are varying safe altitudes in the sector and that you would ask for vectors instead to the intermediate fix
Those marker beacons are disappearing fast. I can't find any on local approaches anymore. Kinda sad.... I miss the beep beep beep on approaches, its like finding an old friend.
I wish we could have picked a different VOR. My patriotic brain is twitching every time I hear "liberal"...hahaha I wonder if the taxpayer is going to pay for my flight training?1 Oh, thats right, they are doing away with flying for the peasants. ;)