+WestCoast Elevators Cool thanks for the comment :) This is my interest, working out relay circuits and then teaching everyone in really simple terms how it works.
Mr. Matt, you did a SUPER job on this! It really gets me that all this was done with no computer anything, all mechanical. And a long time ago to top it all off but now we have to have all this computer garbage to even scratch our head properly? And then it was pretty well bullet proof. Now it gets a surge and it flies all to flinders. What is wrong with this picture! Thanks again!
+Lewie McNeely Thanks, yes, and this is exactly why I like to film the old stuff. Not a lot of interesting things to film from a circuit board and a few flashing LEDs.
Great video! In 1979 Schindler developed it the Miconic control system, which has allowed to equip microprocessors on lifts. Young people lift fitter you are in trouble when performing repairs, also for the fact that they changed the symbols of electrical diagrams.
+Guerrini Daniele Ive heard from a few peoplr that the way Schindler design their logic circuits (relay generation) was a lot different than other designs and took a lot of getting used to. I personally enjoyed filming this one as there is plenty of movement. Love the schindler selector.
I am very glad to watch the parts and apparatus of old elevators . Specially selectors of different makes - MAN used a special slector similar to Schindler- plastic drum rotation, instead of mechanical switches , photo emitters and receivers were used which operates lift positioning and slow down.
Great video, love the sound of that beautiful machine at work nice explanation of how it worked too! I wonder how long it has been since someone went into that motor room! I hope they don't think about modernising it!
+Knuckles the Echidna Thanks. I bet that this motor room is visited frequently, which is possibly why how it's stayed working for so long. I'm really not sure on the criteria of "when" a lift should be modernised, but it's probably "cost to maintain current lift and parts/experience availability VS cost to upgrade and maintain a newer lift". I hope this runs for a long time yet, but think about new engineers having to learn old kit!
+Peter Lomas Thanks Pete! I did wonder about the roller switches around the edge though - if you look at the connections there is one wire on the roller arm, and the other is at the rollers NORMALLY CLOSED position (you can see a copper wire linking all these terminals. You can see it at 3:21, the terminal where the roller switch normally rests - A bit strange that if these rollers were finding active calls as the wheel pushed then, why they wouldn't be connected to COM and NORMALLY OPEN instead?
Thanks for this great video and your explanation on relay logic! I love that you can see it is working, it`s not just LEDs lighting up. And this Schindler wheel is just beautiful! I do understand that modern MRL elevators have a better energy efficience, need less space, etc. But these old lifts have character, and I just can`t see that in modern lifts.
The old Otis mechanical selectors had to be the most complex of their type ever made. I could just imagine how long it took to train people to service those...
+douro20 Yep, I hear where you are coming from, but I suppose back in those days people probably had a better understanding of electrical circuits than they do now (maybe - well, specially relating to relay logic). As people have suggested already, when you examine it closely and have the right training then circuits are quite simple. It's the original design and the thought process that went into the design that is really complicated. One thing you definitely need is a circuit diagram!
I take it that the Yellow wires running between the Relays at 10:01 and 10:16 Are commons ? Great Video BTW. I have always Been fascinated by elevators Also. and thoroughly enjoy your videos.
+DUSTERDUDE238 Yep that is a common wire between the relays. These look like Normally Open contacts, so if any of these relays turned on, then what ever voltage is on the yellow wire would be switched to the top connector. But as to "what it does" needs a complete understanding of what those relays do and a circuit diagram. If I lived in this building then bit by bit I'd love to work it out, but unfortunately if I'd stayed any longer then I may have been discovered :D Thanks for your kind comment!
Ahhhh, now I see how it works :) Always wanted to know... That's actually a pretty nice design. Thank you for taking the effort with your diagram, that's pretty cool and easy to understand! Mhh those relays actually gave me some ASMR Experience, that's funny xD
I agree, now I finally know exactly how these elevators work. Before, all I knew is that there were relay latch circuits involved. As an electrical engineer, and one who likes urban exploration, I really enjoyed this video!
I've always wanted to know why the Schindler lifts have a very audible run down on the motor. I know it's probably the sound of the electromagnetic field, but I've not really heard it on other lifts before.
Great video and explanation. thanks a lot. but could i ask you to provide any schematic or service manual of a very similar lift control logic, as we need to modernise our building lifts (two lifts: one for odd floors and the other for even ones), also we have a very bad subcontractor, he modified and deleted many of functionalities of lifts. So i would be grateful if you can provide a helpful docs. and a lot of thanks for your explanations in this video.
Great video production, and amazing subject matter! Really enjoyed this! I wonder if they noticed their "unguarded machinery" chains were put in place (as they are supposed to be) even though they left them on the floor?
haha! probably not! Actually, I didn't notice that they weren't on before!? When I saw the selector completely covered, I was thinking NOOOOO as that was the bit I really wanted to film. Gonna bring a spanner to take the front off if I ever go there again!
Great video as always. If I understand correctly the lift's directional awareness logic cancels the second contradicting call, i.e. it gives preference to the first call? So as you explained when you have a first call below the current position to set the lift in the down direction and someone calls the lift above it's position it cancels the up direction command. But, does it switch to the up direction if it has completed it's down command or does that depend on the complexity of the controller? As some lifts have memory and simpler ones don't. I bet this sort of behaviour is software configurable with modern controllers. I read on a website from a dutch lift consulting magazine that had a factory tour at ornona that orona only uses one controller pcb for all types of lifts whether they where simple or advanced high-rise lifts with groups, and that they simply configure the software to change the logic so that they only have to issue one pcb to their service engineers instead of needing different versions.
+dykodesigns2yt Most relay based controllers do not have a memory just relay logic.Once a lift has completed its journey up or down any remaining landing calls will then be answered in respect to their position in the shaft. On an Express lift controller relay 83 is energised when the car is travelling in the up direction,it will remain energised untill the highest call is cancelled. Calls registered below the car will de-energise 83 via other directional relays 71 and 72 for example. The car will continue to answer calls below untill the Lowest call is cancelled.
+dykodesigns2yt Yep, as Peter stated, all calls in the opposite direction are hidden (disconnected from the logic) until the lift completes it's journey to the last call. After that a relay reverses and the calls in the other direction are connected, which disconnects calls in the opposite direction... and so on.
when you see all of this logic and then you start thinking you could build a lift controller with an arduino and some relays and contactors in less than 1/6 of that space, you see how we've evolved...
+IscleGaming | ZefaCraft Yes, but now there is no need - you just need an I/O controller (such as a PLC programmable logic controller) and software code the whole thing. More work and understanding involved with circuits (and more to go wrong until your design is working 100%) but it's not the same! I love working with relays.
Awesome video, is love the sound of that wonderful elevator machinery at work nice explanation of how it works too! I wonder how long it has been since someone went into that motoring room! What amazing of this elevator motoring place room isn't... I hope they don't guess about modernising it!!! ^_^
Russian elevators are much simpler. The "inside" roller switches (actually they are in the shaft) have THREE positions. Two extreme positions are identical to Schindler's and the middle position is the slowdown command. See this video for example: th-cam.com/video/FCgssL03EX0/w-d-xo.html
+Алексей Рукин Yes, I've seen a couple of these, where the switch is in the shaft (might be one of your videos). Interesting - so for the central slow down command, the roller must be moved to the middle position AHEAD of arriving at the floor - if there was an active call then slow down is initiated? How about the stop command (level with floor)?
+mrmattandmrchay There is a separate sensor or a set of sensors for exact stopping. The sensor is usually on the cab and is driven by "flags" in the shaft.
+mrmattandmrchay The oldest Austrian automatic lift controls were even simpler. These lifts only went up from the ground floor and then down again. One ramp per floor in the shaft and one "up" switch in the car linked to as many buttons as there are floors. The buttons are in a vertical row with the highest floor the farthest away from the door. The ramps are staggered too so at the selected floor the ramp pushes the button back in and that's it. No self-levelling with sensors and everything, just fiddly adjusting of the ramps I think and that's why there probably aren't any of these controls left (self-levelling is now a legal requirement at least in Vienna).
Great video Matt your animation work is superb, I bet that wheel is a proper shit to fine tune during commissioning, and hen after the ropes settle in. P.S. your landing lamp animation was arse about, clockwise as descending according to the permanent marker, sorry just me being a boffin :D
I,ll start by say saying I'm not a lift engineer ( though discovering this community has made me think about going back to college to become one) second love this video never really understood how the schindler wheel work but have an idea now and finally thanckyou for for sharing all this old knowledge since thire are young people like my self who find history interesting
Cool, really glad you enjoyed watching it. I really like getting into detail about how this stuff works, as it is "figure-out-able" if that makes sense!? Modern electronics - circuit board, boring! Old stuff, mechanical logic, interesting!
I love your relay diagrams! They really help the novice to understand the basic principles behind elevator operation. Well done!
+David Irwin (passacaglia28) Cool, thanks for your comment! Glad you found it interesting.
WOW... those enginerrs from the 70's sure knew their stuff! Amazing editing as always, Mr. Matt.
Your understanding of the different relay systems is astounding!
+WestCoast Elevators Cool thanks for the comment :) This is my interest, working out relay circuits and then teaching everyone in really simple terms how it works.
+mrmattandmrchay
That is awesome, keep up the good work!
The best elevator videos ever!!! THANK YOU SIR!!
+Don Strashinsky thank you very much
Mr. Matt, you did a SUPER job on this! It really gets me that all this was done with no computer anything, all mechanical. And a long time ago to top it all off but now we have to have all this computer garbage to even scratch our head properly? And then it was pretty well bullet proof. Now it gets a surge and it flies all to flinders. What is wrong with this picture! Thanks again!
+Lewie McNeely Thanks, yes, and this is exactly why I like to film the old stuff. Not a lot of interesting things to film from a circuit board and a few flashing LEDs.
Great video! In 1979 Schindler developed it the Miconic control system, which has allowed to equip microprocessors on lifts. Young people lift fitter you are in trouble when performing repairs, also for the fact that they changed the symbols of electrical diagrams.
+Guerrini Daniele Ive heard from a few peoplr that the way Schindler design their logic circuits (relay generation) was a lot different than other designs and took a lot of getting used to. I personally enjoyed filming this one as there is plenty of movement. Love the schindler selector.
Guerrini Daniele kk
I am very glad to watch the parts and apparatus of old elevators . Specially selectors of different makes - MAN used a special slector similar to Schindler- plastic drum rotation, instead of mechanical switches , photo emitters and receivers were used which operates lift positioning and slow down.
Great video, love the sound of that beautiful machine at work nice explanation of how it worked too! I wonder how long it has been since someone went into that motor room! I hope they don't think about modernising it!
+Knuckles the Echidna Thanks. I bet that this motor room is visited frequently, which is possibly why how it's stayed working for so long. I'm really not sure on the criteria of "when" a lift should be modernised, but it's probably "cost to maintain current lift and parts/experience availability VS cost to upgrade and maintain a newer lift". I hope this runs for a long time yet, but think about new engineers having to learn old kit!
Great job Matt an excellent vid, Congratulations.
+Peter Lomas Thanks Pete! I did wonder about the roller switches around the edge though - if you look at the connections there is one wire on the roller arm, and the other is at the rollers NORMALLY CLOSED position (you can see a copper wire linking all these terminals. You can see it at 3:21, the terminal where the roller switch normally rests - A bit strange that if these rollers were finding active calls as the wheel pushed then, why they wouldn't be connected to COM and NORMALLY OPEN instead?
Thanks for this great video and your explanation on relay logic! I love that you can see it is working, it`s not just LEDs lighting up. And this Schindler wheel is just beautiful! I do understand that modern MRL elevators have a better energy efficience, need less space, etc. But these old lifts have character, and I just can`t see that in modern lifts.
Thanks for your comment, I agree!
The old Otis mechanical selectors had to be the most complex of their type ever made. I could just imagine how long it took to train people to service those...
+douro20 Yep, I hear where you are coming from, but I suppose back in those days people probably had a better understanding of electrical circuits than they do now (maybe - well, specially relating to relay logic). As people have suggested already, when you examine it closely and have the right training then circuits are quite simple. It's the original design and the thought process that went into the design that is really complicated. One thing you definitely need is a circuit diagram!
that's a really solid and elegant selector!!
+hyvahyva The Otis selector is my fav followed by this schindler one. There are a couple of varieties of these, this being the smaller one.
That machine sounds beautiful!
8:05 that must be a door closing relay switch
i'm thinking the same (that's if you're referring to the first relay to the left on the bottom)
I take it that the Yellow wires running between the Relays at 10:01 and 10:16 Are commons ?
Great Video BTW. I have always Been fascinated by elevators Also. and thoroughly enjoy your videos.
+DUSTERDUDE238 Yep that is a common wire between the relays. These look like Normally Open contacts, so if any of these relays turned on, then what ever voltage is on the yellow wire would be switched to the top connector. But as to "what it does" needs a complete understanding of what those relays do and a circuit diagram. If I lived in this building then bit by bit I'd love to work it out, but unfortunately if I'd stayed any longer then I may have been discovered :D Thanks for your kind comment!
mrmattandmrchay
wonder if we could find a schematic online somewhere? would love to learn more about it Also.
+mrmattandmrchay great video just subscribed
Once as a kid I got into one of these rooms and I pressed a random relay and it made the whole shaft go absurd with sparks
Whoops! Did you break the lift? Sparks in a lift shaft doesn't sound good.
At 10:37 is that a row of diodes?
Fully enjoyed this video. Well done!
+Électro-Bidouilleur Cool, thanks for your comment :)
Ahhhh, now I see how it works :) Always wanted to know... That's actually a pretty nice design. Thank you for taking the effort with your diagram, that's pretty cool and easy to understand! Mhh those relays actually gave me some ASMR Experience, that's funny xD
+Michael “Mike i386” Roll Thanks for your comment :)
I agree, now I finally know exactly how these elevators work. Before, all I knew is that there were relay latch circuits involved. As an electrical engineer, and one who likes urban exploration, I really enjoyed this video!
I've always wanted to know why the Schindler lifts have a very audible run down on the motor. I know it's probably the sound of the electromagnetic field, but I've not really heard it on other lifts before.
At 11:10 what is written with a marker on that sign on the chain? I can't make out the first word. Great video!
It says "Isolate before entering". Thanks for the compliment :)
Great video and explanation. thanks a lot. but could i ask you to provide any schematic or service manual of a very similar lift control logic, as we need to modernise our building lifts (two lifts: one for odd floors and the other for even ones), also we have a very bad subcontractor, he modified and deleted many of functionalities of lifts. So i would be grateful if you can provide a helpful docs. and a lot of thanks for your explanations in this video.
Great video production, and amazing subject matter! Really enjoyed this!
I wonder if they noticed their "unguarded machinery" chains were put in place (as they are supposed to be) even though they left them on the floor?
haha! probably not! Actually, I didn't notice that they weren't on before!? When I saw the selector completely covered, I was thinking NOOOOO as that was the bit I really wanted to film. Gonna bring a spanner to take the front off if I ever go there again!
Great video as always. If I understand correctly the lift's directional awareness logic cancels the second contradicting call, i.e. it gives preference to the first call? So as you explained when you have a first call below the current position to set the lift in the down direction and someone calls the lift above it's position it cancels the up direction command. But, does it switch to the up direction if it has completed it's down command or does that depend on the complexity of the controller? As some lifts have memory and simpler ones don't.
I bet this sort of behaviour is software configurable with modern controllers. I read on a website from a dutch lift consulting magazine that had a factory tour at ornona that orona only uses one controller pcb for all types of lifts whether they where simple or advanced high-rise lifts with groups, and that they simply configure the software to change the logic so that they only have to issue one pcb to their service engineers instead of needing different versions.
+dykodesigns2yt Most relay based controllers do not have a memory just relay logic.Once a lift has completed its journey up or down any remaining landing calls will then be answered in respect to their position in the shaft. On an Express lift controller relay 83 is energised when the car is travelling in the up direction,it will remain energised untill the highest call is cancelled. Calls registered below the car will de-energise 83 via other directional relays 71 and 72 for example. The car will continue to answer calls below untill the Lowest call is cancelled.
+dykodesigns2yt Yep, as Peter stated, all calls in the opposite direction are hidden (disconnected from the logic) until the lift completes it's journey to the last call. After that a relay reverses and the calls in the other direction are connected, which disconnects calls in the opposite direction... and so on.
One question, how do car call buttons latch a relay / how do relays move on their own?
when you see all of this logic and then you start thinking you could build a lift controller with an arduino and some relays and contactors in less than 1/6 of that space, you see how we've evolved...
+IscleGaming | ZefaCraft Yes, but now there is no need - you just need an I/O controller (such as a PLC programmable logic controller) and software code the whole thing. More work and understanding involved with circuits (and more to go wrong until your design is working 100%) but it's not the same! I love working with relays.
I really enjoyed watching this video. Can I suggest renaming it to "Schindler's Lift"? Just a thought. d;0)
Thanks for the compliment. I actually already have a video called that but it's not as interesting as this one
There is also a pre-door relay as that lift does do pre-doors.
I somehow jumped when the green arrow on your intro popped out, don't know why xD
+gutteboy That'll be the "TESLA-ZAP" sound effect! I'll skype you a copy of it haha!!
Awesome video, is love the sound of that wonderful elevator machinery at work nice explanation of how it works too! I wonder how long it has been since someone went into that motoring room! What amazing of this elevator motoring place room isn't... I hope they don't guess about modernising it!!! ^_^
+Andrew Wallford reliance on computers today is becoming terrifyingly scary actually, so i hope so too
You lost me at the end there.
Russian elevators are much simpler. The "inside" roller switches (actually they are in the shaft) have THREE positions. Two extreme positions are identical to Schindler's and the middle position is the slowdown command. See this video for example: th-cam.com/video/FCgssL03EX0/w-d-xo.html
+Алексей Рукин Yes, I've seen a couple of these, where the switch is in the shaft (might be one of your videos). Interesting - so for the central slow down command, the roller must be moved to the middle position AHEAD of arriving at the floor - if there was an active call then slow down is initiated? How about the stop command (level with floor)?
+mrmattandmrchay There is a separate sensor or a set of sensors for exact stopping. The sensor is usually on the cab and is driven by "flags" in the shaft.
+mrmattandmrchay The oldest Austrian automatic lift controls were even simpler. These lifts only went up from the ground floor and then down again. One ramp per floor in the shaft and one "up" switch in the car linked to as many buttons as there are floors. The buttons are in a vertical row with the highest floor the farthest away from the door. The ramps are staggered too so at the selected floor the ramp pushes the button back in and that's it. No self-levelling with sensors and everything, just fiddly adjusting of the ramps I think and that's why there probably aren't any of these controls left (self-levelling is now a legal requirement at least in Vienna).
The Selector Switch is 1 ca Switch and 2 ca Switch.
The door Switch ( longest switch) is CFO switch
I wonder what "Beno" thinks about this...
Great video Matt your animation work is superb, I bet that wheel is a proper shit to fine tune during commissioning, and hen after the ropes settle in.
P.S. your landing lamp animation was arse about, clockwise as descending according to the permanent marker, sorry just me being a boffin :D
I love how "wheel" = "whiww"
I,ll start by say saying I'm not a lift engineer ( though discovering this community has made me think about going back to college to become one) second love this video never really understood how the schindler wheel work but have an idea now and finally thanckyou for for sharing all this old knowledge since thire are young people like my self who find history interesting
Cool, really glad you enjoyed watching it. I really like getting into detail about how this stuff works, as it is "figure-out-able" if that makes sense!? Modern electronics - circuit board, boring! Old stuff, mechanical logic, interesting!
I share your opinion 100% like all things old so much more interesting
I MEAN ELEVATOR
wow im dizzi from this super explenation
in a good way I hope ;)
THAT SAME ELEVATO WITH WASPS NEST
Yep that's the one
12:00 LOL
Why the 9/11 movie song in the intro??
wow, Complacated.
+Jess Valenzuela but cool!!
If you want I can send you some take from my elevator. I'm an engineer (in electronics) and I have access to it. So, I don't put myself in danger.