Like others have said, I and everyone I knew went straight from the 2600 to the NES. I didn't know one soul who had a 5200 or 7800, and I've never actually seen one of either in real life. When I got my 2600 in 1982, video game consoles were a HUGE investment for Mom and Dad. The idea of swapping them out for a new system every few years was unheard of -- I mean, this was the era when you bought a console TV and kept it for 30 years, and if it broke you took it to a repairman! And then, when the game libraries of these new Ataris consisted of the very same games with updated graphics, there was no way my folks were going to consider it. Also PC's were starting to be a thing, so if they WERE going to make that second investment, it would have been for a computer. I remember when I finally got an NES, a year after all my friends had one. I called Mom into the room and said look at this! I wanted her to not regret her investment, and I was sure that if she really took time to take in a few frames of Super Mario Bros., she'd get it. Instead, she stared at it for a minute and said dismissively, "Oh, that looks just like Atari" then left the room. Ahhhh, parents.
To be fair to your mother, if you compare Mario in Mario Bros. from the Atari to the same character in the NES, there isn't much of an improvement, graphically. In my family we got an Atari 2600 in 1980 and didn't replace it until we bought a Super Nintendo in 93. The change was obvious to everyone.
@@robertfaler1947 Oooh, I gotta disagree. By 1985 standards, I personally feel like the leap in detail was pretty remarkable -- although I can understand a mom (who never payed close attention to those things) not noticing. That's interesting that you didn't replace your Atari until 1993. That used to be the norm -- you shell out hundreds for an "appliance", you expect to get at least a decade out of it.
@@speedgriffon2504 If you look at the graphics in general and include things like the background and frame rate then yes, the NES is a lot better than the Atari. But if you are only looking at the Mario character and ignore the fact that Mario takes up more space on the screen in the Atari, they look similar. Both machines had 8 bit graphics. I still have that Atari today and I've played some of the homebrew games, like Halo, on it.
This was the first system I owned. It was a birthday present when I was 8 i think. I always wanted an Atari when literally everyone had them about the time the industry was crashing. It was amazing and games were like $10 since stores were desperate to liquidate stocks. Not too long after, the next door neighbor kid showed off his new Nintendo and it was awesome but I never could forget my 7800 and would still play it. I frequently expanded my library at garage sales with people literally dumping boxes of old video games for pennies.
I had a 7800, too, and I also appreciated the cheap games. We couldn't afford NES games but I had an entire library for the 7800. Rampage, Double Dragon and Food Fight were personal favorites. Did you have the paddle controller or the joystick?
I’ll be honest, I never took note of my 7800’s sound capabilities because at the time, I was too blown away by the upgrade in graphics from my 2600. Back in the day, we never really talked about sound, it was all about better and better graphics. I think the NES generation and Commodore gamers were more aware of good sound than us Atari fans. Little did we know. Either way, I enjoyed the hell out of my 7800’s limited library because the games were, in general, so fun to play.
It was a simple, solid strategy - back then, the only way we could learn about a video game was via photographs - magazines, catalogues, game boxes, etc. Therefore, since nobody could SEE how a game SOUNDED, the best place to cut corners and shave down costs would be the game's sound chip. As long as the games LOOKED good, nobody would know it SOUNDED like crap until it was too late!
The 7800 was developed with a low cost but high quality audio chip for the cartridges. But all that fell apart before the chip could get to final design. I think this was always a dumb idea. The POKEY was YEARS old at the time the 7800 was being designed and was already dirt cheap to make. They should have put a pokey in the 7800 and perhaps even an optional additional pokey in the cartridge. That would have given the 7800 the best sound in a console at the time.
If the sound chip was that good, they could've tried marketing that aspect like ho the ps1 made a decent cd player. But this was the opposite problem. The sound was terrible, they weren't slapping those big names like Super Mario Bros or Legend of Zelda, they weren't hitting some new plateaus in graphics, it was just bound to fail.
@@hookah6579 The problem is Atari fell into the hands of Jack Tramiel before the general release of the 7800. Had Atari not fallen into Jack's hands, the history of the 7800 might be very different. Jack only wanted Atari for the name and logo to slap on whatever computer he could come up with and was completely disinterested in spending any money on video games. He released the 7800 as a total cash grab and refused to put any money into it.
I quite enjoyed the first batch of 7800 games. Food Fight especially. But once a kid discovers the NES it's over. Of the later games, Planet Smashers was my favorite.
I had a 7800 in the mid 1990's, came in a boxfull of Atari stuff from a yard sale for $10. Now, I have an Atari 5200. I feel the Atari 5200 is more advanced, due to the included ability of digitized speech.
I think 7800 is a great name. 2600 was a hit! and it's easy to assume it's 3X more powerful. The team who made it wanted it to be called 3600, as it plays 2600 and felt like its sequel. But Atari knew this would confuse ppl into thinking it was less powerful than 5200.
I grew up poor and played 2600 until the early 90s. I didn't get an NES until the price dropped to $99 shortly after SNES was released. I did not have the latest and greatest consoles until I was out on my own and earning my own money.
There are some really good 7800 games, and if you look at the new homebrews, you can really see the potential of the 7800. There were really just two things going against it: 1: Atari... They made many many mistakes with this (and other) systems. They were just floundering, even with good hardware. 2: Those original controllers... I have a pair of them, but don't use them. The Europad (NES looking) pads are great tho... 3: (I know, I said 2) Nintendo and their partner licensing. Fair or not, it was a genius business decision.
I still don't understand how people can play properly on NES gamepads. I am right-handed, my right hand is fine motor skills, I can move joypads and crosses with my right hand very accurately and quickly, but I absolutely cannot do the same with my left hand. On joysticks, I always controlled with my right hand, fingers, and with my left hand I only pressed the button. This is why I can't play NES / SEGA / XBOX / PS normally.
@@BellaLugoshi I agree in general, but the 7800 joysticks are just painful to use. The europads are better, less painful. But I agree I would have preferred a real joystick. Something like a competition pro...
I am the sad kid who had this machine and after a year of playing Star Trek I’d play it again you just pretend it’s Star Wars and it was the best Star Wars game
Have an issue with your comments at 5:40. Being someone who lived through that era, I can tell you that what most people (kids) wanted at that time WAS to play the arcade ports at home! We would spend tons of quarters in the arcade and the promise of a console port was real hype! Just look at that crap for the 2600 known as PacMan. No one cared - just as long as they could play it at home. Look at the marketing behind the Colecovision - "bring the arcade home". Now, between the time the 7800 was developed and it was released 3-4 years later, the market changed. Most of your vids are very well researched for someone who didn't live through the era. I'm sure you do a ton of reading. But this comment you made is not accurate.
@JamesChatting no...he's mostly well informed and puts alot of time into his videos. I think it's great someone tries to look into a past era and make a video for us to enjoy.
I have an Atari 7800 Pro System and the majority of the games that were issued by Atari for it. I feel that it was a good upgrade for owners of the Atari 2600 VCS because one could play one's old games and use one's old controllers. However I also like the new homebrew game cartridges that are now available for the Atari 7800 Pro System, which can be bought online from at least three different stores (AtariAge, Good Deal Games Homebrew Heaven & Atari2600).
@@blackterminal I believe that a select few of the homebrew game cartridges do have special sound chips, but they also have a slight variation of their printed circuit boards to accommodate for both the sound chip and a bonus RAM chip to improve both graphics and sounds.
@@kevinmach730lol well he's still picking up new watchers because I'm one. You're right though I'm a 1979 original and probably on the young side of those who are interested.
More and more after market games are coming out for the 7800 that use either the Pokey sound chip or AtariAge's PokeyOne sound chip. The Pokey chip is what was used in cartridges from the two back-in-the-day releases Commando and Ballblazer. The Pokey chip was also used in many of Atari's arcade games at the time. Since the 7800 is natively backwards compatible with games for the 7800 it has a huge library of games that it can play. Even PAL exclusives. Every year new games are released for both the 2600 and the 7800. The 7800 is how I play 2600 games.
People also forget the 7800 can play some intellivision games. I still have our old 7800 from my childhood. Have pretty much all the native games for it but we gradually were picking up any cartridge that would fit in the slot just to see if they would work. Turns out many intellivision titles do.
@@Grisbane I don't see how that's possible. Please provide a list of compatible games. Now, I DO know that the Sega SG-1000, Colecovision, and original MSX share the same hardware, but the BIOS is different with each system. A Dina 2 in One, or a Telegames Personal Arcade can play both SG-1000 games and Colecovision games, but it has two different cartridge slots. Which slot you use determines the BIOS used.
First of all, the 7800 did beat the Master System in sales in the United States. Second what are the odds that with five childhood friends, one owned a Sega Master System back in that day and another owned the 7800 back in the day?
@@IntoTheVerticalBlank I had a 7800, SMS, and an NES and at least initially, that's the order of most played to least. For me anyways. Eventually the SMS because my primary console but it took a couple of years.
In all fairness, growing up in a smaller (not SMALL, but not a city) town, I don't know that I ever heard of the 7800, until I read about it (and the Lynx) in magazines in the early 90s. By that same token, I never heard of, much less SAW a Master System in stores as a kid. I didn't know it existed until I saw it profiled in the 1992 Holiday Buyer's Guide EGM issue. I was blown away that Sega had console before Genesis.
What I can't believe is how Atari would ever think the TIA chip would be acceptable in 1984 moving forward. The Famicom was out in Japan and it was widely known they were making a move here. Sega was getting their Mark III ready for the US as well and the sounds coming from the two Japanese consoles were next level. The games were not these old arcade experiences and gave players so much more.
@D M Definitely minus the awful controllers. I have to believe had Atari simply fixed their controllers or came out with a pad as that was where the market was headed...the 5200 may have been able to go toe-to-toe with Nintendo and Sega. Yes, the Nes and Master System were more powerful but not an incredible amount. Hell, I can see Atari doing what Nintendo did with helper chips to make up for any shortfalls. That would have been interesting because with Atari completely involved Nintendo wouldn't have been able to illegally monopolize the market. They would have sued them the second it happened but they were still reeling from the game crash to realize what was happening. Coincidentally, it was Atari that actually did sue Nintendo and won over their monopolistic policies. That was what inevitably enabled Sega to really become a threat to Nintendo's dominance. With Atari still heavily in the game I believe we would have seen even more amazing games. Unfortunately, that didn't happen and Japan took over our game industry.
It needed more/better games. The same exact problem with the Lynx and Jaguar. None of those consoles were BAD. They just had poor software support. But honestly, NES was kind in the mid-to-late 80s. It was still kicking Sega's ass in 89/90. The Genesis didn't really catch on until 1991, 1985 (technically 1983) hardware was ruling the market. But those MMC chips on the carts really helped boost the NES beyond past what it could originally do (hence Mario 3, Punch Out, Kirby, etc.)
The only way the 7800 would have been successful is if it released far earlier than it did, and Atari put all their available recourses behind creating great games for it. That was never going to happen with Tramel leading Atari, so its a moot point.
Newsmakers Tech very true! One mistake was the rather meager advertising budget. Another was the late release. Yet Another was retaining the Atari VCS/2600 TIA sound chip for backwards compatibility purposes. Only two Atari 7800 games bothered with the extra expense for the optional Pokey Sound chip for better sound, and although I've got from many the opinion that the TIA sound chip seems to have performed slightly better on many Atari 7800 games there was only so much improvement to be had. Yet another difficult factor still was Nintendo's monopolistic third party licensing practices which were anti-competitive, and hurt the Atari 7800, Sega SG1000, and Sega Master System original libraries since most every third party game developer/publisher was wary of crossing Nintendo, and not being able to develop/publish further games on the Nintendo NES.
@@bmkretrogaming7634 That problem seems to come from game companies that were willing to sign such a deal with Nintendo. Why would a company want to release a software for just 1 system?
@@louistournas120 right! Of course although it happened too late to help out either Atari, or Sega in the third generation U.S. courts did eventually rule Nintendo's third party licensing practices at the time monopolistic, anti-competitive, and illegal. Of course I still tend to factor in the other above stated reasons if to a lesser degree.
I still have mine and I love it. The 7800 games I have are very very enjoyable and the graphics are good. Moreover, the backwards compatiblity for 2600 games is amazing! When I got the 7800 I had hundreds of 2600 games which I still have to this day. Moreover, I love that I can use my 2600 controllers with the 7800.
It was too powerful for 1982, in the states. Hell, the Famicom and Sega Mark 1 came out in Japan in 1983. The Colecoviosion also came out in the states in 83. The 5200's main problem, was that the controller sucked, the console had some funky issues. It's power, for the time, was fine. And then the US Game Crash happened. Hell, the Colecovision was actually a huge success for it's first year, but the Crash killed it off as well.
Atari should have brought out the 800XL (think it was their best selling 8bit computer) sooner rather than the expensive and crippled 1200XL. AND brought ought out the XEGS then too (guess it would have been called the XLGS?). They needed the right balance of tech and price and a good heap of marketing. The C64 cost over $500-600 when it debuted. The Vic-20 was cheap but not as powerful as either the 64 or XL. But that’s not how it all played out.
I actually own a 7800, and it still works. About a couple of years ago I asked someone at a retro game store (that is now closed…shame) about the grainy picture I’ve been getting from the old RF that came with the system. I was told to buy something using an AV cable type of system. I don’t remember what it was since I’ve temporarily packed the system away to bring it back out once I have a game room.
By "grainy", do you mean the static-like interference that seems to come and go as you fiddle with the switchbox? If so, the problem is that the contacts in the switch get dirty/oxidized over time and don't make a good connection. A few years ago, someone I know wanted to hook up an Atari 2600 to a CRT TV, but the picture was terrible. I popped the back off the switchbox and connected the contacts directly from where the RF cable plugs in to the ones going to the TV. That made a HUGE difference in picture quality and all the interference was gone. Granted, the RF output on old consoles is never going to match a modern system, but cutting out the switch greatly improved the picture. You can also buy adapters that have a female RF socket to a coax male connector. Plug the RF into it, then screw it onto the coax connection on the TV. There are apparently mods you can do to get composite output from the 7800, but I seem to recall one person saying that working on the 7800 is kind of fiddly and he hated doing it.
If your using an old switch box thats probably the issue. You can find a 5 buck piece to bypass the switchbox. Hooks it right to the coaxial on the TV.
I was using the original RF unit that came from the system. Since the one I have now which plugs directly in the picture was clear as a bell. Still I don’t remember what I used, but it was the best option I had to play the old games on the old CRT TV we had which we don’t anymore. Now if there is some way of putting this system through HDMI without modding it, I would give it a try.
@@robert_roland63 there must be adapters to put coaxial through hdmi. But it probably wouldn't upgrade the image unless you mod to bypass coaxial all together. I've gotten use to the original even on flatscreen. But I noticed not all flat screens are the same. Some look blurry, some make it hard to see darker colored pixels as they blend into the background, and some don't work at all. But my small Magnavox flatscreen looks really good on original 7800 and 5200. So I'm happy.
@@Lightblue2222 Makes sense to me. I’m hoping once I get my game room set up I’ll try bypassing, but yeah it won’t really upgrade the image so I don’t know how well it will work without modding anything. 😁
Same. I was the kid that got this instead of the NES in the 80s. But I had a lot of fun. I had friends that had the C64 and NES, so I still got to play those games, but I was content playing this system which was the one my parents could afford. The backwards compatibility with the 2600 came at the price of the sound chip, but being able to play old games was solid…neighbors and friends unload their old 2600 games (and even paddle controllers) which allowed me to enjoy classics like Pitfall and Kaboom, while enjoying the 7800 games I had like Ms PacMan, Rampage and Food Fight.
I loved this console at the time, especially the Robotron port - I made small controller boards, bolting down the stock controller on one side and two arcade push button switches on the other which really helped (great for Xevious etc) - since I made two, made them able to mate together with a couple screws, which made Robotron very playable
If the 7800 design philosophy was what Atari brought to the table when initially designing a successor to the 2600, history would have played out very differently. The 7800's internal architecture is nothing short of inspired, it's power-to-price ratio is something any new hardware design should aspire to. The 5200 was poised as professional-grade arcade hardware and I don't think consumers were ready for such an investment back in 82. It had all the internals of their 8-bit computer line, very expensive to manufacture. A real supersystem Instead, the 7800 took a different approach. More of a middle of the road thing, a prosumer model. They advertised it as being able to play arcade quality titles at a budget price. Very smart to carve out their own niche instead of choosing to go head to head with Nintendo.
I assume you are leaving the importance of hi fidelity sound precessing out of the equation completely. I"ll take a mediocre game with good sound quality over a decent game with sound that I have to mute.
@@PeBoVision Had the 7800 launched in 84, the Gumby sound chip wouldn't have been left on the cutting room floor. The use of the Pokey chip in Commando and Ballblazer showed that an inexpensive audio coprocessor was a viable solution for the TIA's shortcomings. Still, the TIA was more than adequate for SFX. They should have limited it's use so the player didn't need to mute the game.
@@segastardust8836 The Atari 8 bit computers demotrated the prowess of pairing Pokey with TIA. It was no SID, but it was a great sound solution (and beat the heck out of Yamaha chip used in the ST line) Atari simply undervalued the importance of hi fidelity sound in electronic entertainment - until the STe which was too little too late.
@@PeBoVision My original point was simply that the 7800 offered a better cost/performance ratio than the 5200. I think the 5200 architecture is great for a home computer though. There was an excellent lecture online by the former head of GCC, he delved a little deeper into how the 7800 came together, it was an excellent presentation.
@@segastardust8836 And I completely agree. 5200 architenture WAS a home computer though, it was a very-slightly tweaked 400. Which makes it's incompatibily with the 8 bit line by-design. At least the XEGS was allowed to remain an XE. It is noteworthy just how long Atari kept 1979 technology on the shelves as "NEW!" tough. If they released the iPhone we'd still be on iPhone1, but it would be called 23.
By the time the 7800 came out, back in the day, all of us first gen gamers like me had discovered chasing skirt, driving and flipping burgers at the mall.
@Enhancement Thank You because you said no skirts. Clearly you did not understand him or me. If you dont know what "chasing skirts," means. I cannot help you.
The 7800 had a lot going for it. For starters, it was backwards compatible with most 2600 games. And some games like "Pole Position II" and "Double Dragon" were great. The controllers weren't bad. And releasing improved classics like "Ms. Pac Man" and "Donkey Kong" would have sounded great in theory.
Does the 7800 have big games? Games that are like Super Mario Bros, with long maps, many levels, power ups, a health bar? I guess you need ROM chips that are 128 KB or 256 KB to have such games and the 2600 usually had 4 KB only.
I never saw a 5200 in the wild back in the day. I saw very few 7800s come to think of it. Once Nintendo became super popular, my household got an nes in late 87.
We got a NES in 1989. We had a Coleco Gemini before that. I was considering the Atari 7800 but I was a kid and just familiar with the Atari name. Over time, I heard more and more about the Nintendo and eventually saw Super Mario Bros at the store.
It's always interesting when I get reminded that this system even existed. I do not remember it at all. I don't remember seeing it on store shelves, I don't remember seeing commercials, I don't remember knowing anyone who had one. Everyone had an NES and I had cousins who had a Master System (which I would eventually buy from them, complete with a literal grocery bag full of games). But the 7800 was completely off of my radar.
My first gaming console back in '87. I enjoyed it for a couple years until Xmas of '89 when i got the NES. Very fond memories. I wish i would've kept it. I had a great library including 2600 titles.
My family got a 7800 and we were satisfied. I think the price combined with 2600 game capability made my father choose it. We had a 2600 and many games. We got a NES in 88 or 89 when they apparently went on sale and every kid on the street got one... except my neighbor and best friend at the time. They got a Sega so it worked out we could play both. Just had to switch houses.
Had the 2600 in 1981. Saw the 5200 and 7800 come out. Was waiting for something new to come out. I got the Sega master system in 86. Everyone else got the Nintendo NES. I was the only one in school with it. I do miss trading Atari 2600 cartridges..
You are not wrong in saying that using the TIA chip for sound was a bad idea - but saying it was exactly the same audio as the 2600 is just incorrect. In 7800 mode, it had 100% access to TIA for audio, and could blow the 2600 audio out of the water. Just do a simple comparison of Ms. Pac Man, Xevious and Donkey Kong vs. the 2600 versions. Total night and day vs. those versions.
I'm upvoting you for being factually correct, but in practice, the subtle differences are nothing compared to what the competition was doing. Or even what the Intellivision could do. Those 32 pitches don't accurately match up to any kind of scale or musical tuning. Nothing else sounds like this. It's like it was designed by aliens. Whose religion has outlawed every form of music except the most experimental glitch-core and repetitive musical hooks so short they count as viral by size alone. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's great that Double Dragon's audio no longer makes my ears bleed out brain matter, but... I wouldn't consider this a night and day difference.
Perhaps the difference isn't night and day. However, I will say it's commendable that programmers could make any music on the 7800 at all. Perhaps it would have been better had they simply never tried and reserved the tia exclusively for sfx.
@@juststatedtheobvious9633 I totally agree that a POKEY was 100% what they should have done. Even in 1985/86 that was a wonderful sounding chip - my sole point is that the 7800 get knocked in most reviews for sounding exactly the Atari 2600, when in fact it does not - it sounds substantially better with 7800 games.
Galaga sounds good on 7800. Its far more nostalgic to the actual arcade than it is 2600 sounding. The most technically impressive sound with 7800 TIA probably goes to the game Jinks. It uses sound samples for voice and menu music. No way could 2600 TIA do that. Also worth mentioning there's a number of games that sound more lively on 7800 tia vs 5200 pokey "imo". Sound effects in Choplifter are really bad on 5200.. and some of the arcade classics are off pitch on 5200 like the extra life on Centipede as where 7800 gets it perfect. But especially 7800 vs 2600. Compare the number of sounds the 7800 Crossbow has compared to the 2600 version, or Mario Bros, Ms Pacman etc... The 2600 is lucky to get 3 or 4 sound effects per game while 7800 easily gets over a dozen.
No way, Atari was not going to do the grassroots, drive to get systems back into the mkt. Nintendo promised to buyback old systems. Nintendo was promising a video entertainment system including a robot and gun. Atari would of had to answer for why carry a new system after discontinuing the 5200, and 2600 games sitting in the discount bins. Atari was lucky Nintendo made video games hot again,and they were able to cheaply re-enter the video game mkt. He spent next to nothing less than a million to advertise sold 3 to 4 million systems of 7800 another 5 or 6 million 2600 systems, plus a ton of Blackstock games.
Atari focusing on home computers instead of gaming consoles is the reason why they crashed and burned. They took a big shi** on the one thing that ever made them any money. Name one company from back then that is still making money in the home computer business??? Commodore, Sinclair, Amstrad, Amiga, etc etc.. They all crashed and burned. Yet Nintendo focused 100% on video games and consoles and is still making money hand over foot to this day.
I got one as a high school graduation present in 1989. I never had any other 7800-specific game besides the pack-in, Pole Position, but I lugged the system and a bag full of 2600 games to my dorm. Then my roommate showed up with an NES....
If this had come out in the UK as planned and the Tramiel's invested some money in getting some serious software support, it could of given the Master System a run for it's money. Instead Bob Gleadow convinced the Tramiel's to go with the XEGS then release the 7800 later, leaving Atari with 3 8-bit consoles (2600, XEGS and 7800) all competing for the same, limited market space 😭
With the way Nintendo had locked out just about all 3rd party developers, any system released during that time was destined to fail. Between the NES, Atari 7800, and Sega Master System, I'd say the Master System was the most powerful of the 3, and would have had a good chance of dominating market share if they had access to the 3rd party software support that Nintendo had at the time. Sega and Atari had ports of their own arcade titles to fall back on, but it just wasn't enough to compete with Nintendo.
SMS had the most powerful base hardware, but the NES with MMC chips in the carts was capable of outperforming it in many ways. But even if Nintendo didn't have a lock-down on third parties during that era, I have a feeling the NES' exclusives, especially Nintendo published exclusives like Mario, Tetris, Zelda, Metroid, Punch Out, etc., would have still put it over the top. SMS had some great games, but IMO no games/franchises that were QUITE on the level with what NES had to offer.
It is a crazy what if, because Atari was all about their ST computers at the time, which shared its main CPU with the Genesis. Imagine if they had collaborated a bit closer, if the next ST had inherited some of the graphic capabilities of the Genesis, or if they had Sega programming games for their ST directly.
Not long afterthis came out Atari slashed prices on the 65 xe and 130xe dramatically , they were cheaper than the console , pretty sure Atari survived till the 90s solely on the Atari St selling.
No point in trying to sound like underestimating the Sega Master System other than showing lack of knowledge. The Sega Master System was a huge market leader in Europe and South America.
DK on Famicom wouldn't have come out until 83, the same year the system launched. DK on the NES didn't come out until June 1986 in NA. It was re-released in 1988 in the "Donkey Kong Classics" cart with DK Jr., which I believe itself was RE-released in 1990. So yes, people cared.
Hey, can you imagine what would have happened if atari and nintendo became partners back when nintendo wanted them to distribute the nes and then they became partners with sony when the playstation debacle happened?
I still have my Atari 7800 in it’s original box along with about a dozen games or so. My grandparents bought it for me back in the day as a gift because I wanted it, more so than the NES. Mostly because I could play my 2600 games on the 7800 system and I thought that was so cool. I enjoyed the system, it was quite entertaining. But…. the NES and Sega systems just killed it in graphics, sound, game selection, and game play. Finding games for the 7800 was so aggravating and sometimes almost impossible. Most places didn’t carry them. Plus, I knew no one that had the system where I could try out their 7800 games, so there was a lot of remorse when it came to buying new games for the system. Most of them sucked. The box art would pull me in, but overall many of the games were terrible. My worst game experience was Karateka. It WAS terrible. While I’m getting screwed on sucky Atari games, all my friends we playing Super Mario and Contra..!!!!😢😂😂 But the heck… I still have the system and it still works😂
Of all the video game consoles I've owned over the years, the Atari 7800 was one I passed on when it was released. If it had been released on time? Sure. However, it just had no chance by the time it was out in the market.
Gotta say thank you for this video, it has helped me know more what to expect when I finally own one myself :) I do wonder how the homebrews are for it...
My parents came home with one of these instead of a Nintendo because they were on sale at Zellers, and I was devastated! But it came with Xevious, and I played the heck out of it! I never noticed that the sound sucked because the TV I had was mono. I eventually got a NES, but I still have fond memories of the 7800. IMHO, what hurt the 7800 more then anything was the controller. After playing for a while your hand completely cramps up. I think I tried to get a Sega controller to work with it but I can't remember if it did.
That is such a shocking figure for the early '80s. Any other tech company who lost half a billion dollars would have simply declared bankruptcy. It is amazing that Jack Tramiel was able to revive Atari, particularly with the spectacular failure of Atari and Nintendo's failed partnership deal (check out the video about this). The Nintendo Entertainment System (NES) was the first gaming system I ever used, and an instant classic. Just based on the graphics I have seen of the Atari 7800, it wasn't noticeably better, and the NES had better sound. 🤷
That's about how I see it too, fun to play around with the games and learn the history though. I like to play like NES double dragon and compare it to playing on 7800
I got the 7800 for Christmas 1987. Just got the Pole Position 2 that came with it. Never saw other games for it at the stores. Still looking. Got 2600 games for but no 7800 titles. I thought the controller was rough.
It's hard to say much about Atari's post VCS offerings. I had long since moved to home computers by the time the 5200 and 7800 came to market (by the time the latter had dropped, the 520ST was at CES!) The 5200 was a 400 with an incompatible cartridge port and no keyboard (I already had that level of graphics and sound on my 800XL) The 7800's sound chip is unacceptible for its date of relese, especially since its development was to compete with the newer, more advanced systems coming down the pipe. And when it released, I was preparing for the move to 16-bit computing. Why would I want a 7800 ? A pretty Pole Position wasn't enough. During this time, the only game console that held any interest for me was the Neo-GEO, which was actually bringing an arcade machine home. I stood in awe at the store - at the price!! This was a period where I was just managing to pay rent, buy food and feed the XL. - ooooh...1200 baud modems...limited supply...$99...if I hold off on paying the bills until next month...
Nolan Bushnell who founded Atari Corp was long gone as such Atari Corp was headed by the Tramiels and the already obsolete hardware of the Atari 7800 had been sitting in warehouses during the change of command situation. I really like that in your video you point out that the sound processor was indeed a bad design choice but also the issue was that Atari still had some credibility as a videogame systems maker and the young teenager demographic in the 1980s was slowly learning about the differences between the technology specifications once they had friends who had gotten the Nintendo N.E.S. in either 1985 or 86 versus a friend who unfortunately got stuck with the Atari 7800. It would get worse if they had anyone who had gotten the Sega Master System because even playing the the 1986 available software lineup of a couple of games would also heavily expose this. The other issue is that although the Sega Master System was actually a 1985 Sega Mark III and the NES was a 1983 launched Nintendo FamiCom the latter was getting some really advanced game software like Super Mario Bros which was released in 1985 and often people misunderstood the game wasn't really a launch game but a game that had gotten finished for retail and released that year and slowly started a phenomenon of attracting the entire family into videogames... A factor that Sega was able to capture with Alexx Kid in Miracle World if only the original 1986 management staff at Sega of America were to have had a more organized plan of attack and strategy to represent the hardware to the consumer where instead there was just a lot of bad management decisions made by Sega of America's staff in 86 plus the much lower priced Atari 7800 basically helping prevent Sega Master System become established.
Also it is worthy of note that while some people will take to blaming the Tramiels, the fact is that Atari Corp had changed management and had been in transition where they logically should not have released the Atari 7800 especially because it wasn't even designed under the leadership of the Tramiels and it was clear that after they (Atari Corp rejected Nintendo and later Sega MegaDrive offers) their home grown products would eventually lead to the downfall of the Atari videogame systems period.
I remember when I first saw the 7800 announced in Electronic Games magazine. They had artist's renderings of the games, but at the time, I thought that they were color printouts of actual screenshots. Regardless, I loved the look of the games and wanted one. Of course it never came out in my area until years later. One day I was in a toy store and there it was sitting on the shelf. Unfortunately at a cost of close to $100, I couldn't afford it. I eventually bought a used one and some games off the net a few years later. I like the system, but I hate the joysticks. I would always use a generic joystick and put the games into 1-button mode. I do wish they'd included a Pokey chip in the system itself though. I would have loved to see what the system could have done for more advanced arcade games like Zaxxon or Crystal Castles.
I'm tired of people saying the 5200 controller was terrible. I bought one on release and no one using the controller correctly at the time made complaints about the controller that every youtube "reviewer" does every time. The 5200 controller was one of the most awesome things about the system. Nothing I saw at the time had graphics even close. Especially compared to Intellivision. Compare Night Stalker vs Galaxian or Pac-Man, the difference is night and day. Play Star Raiders on the 2600 and then on the 5200. The 2600 controller will give you cramps. The 5200 controller was buttery smooth analog. Plus the number pad had specific functions for Star Raiders. Yes, there was one big problem for the controller, the 4 trigger buttons and 3 start menu buttons. They stopped working over time but could be fixed by disassembling and reassembling it. And I don't think many people had this issue because they didn't play for 8 hours at a time like I did. I knew two people at the time that hated the controller. They gripped it just as you would the 2600 controller, which made no sense to me. You didn't need to manhandle the controller. They held it like they were going to wrestle it. The 5200 controller was meant to be used as a fine instrument. More like the Kraft PC controller. Yes, the games were hard to find but almost all Toys-R-Us stores had a large selection. I think the real problem for Atari was their marketing, it was a complete disaster the whole decade. No one knew what to buy. The concept of the 2600 was so powerful that Atari didn't have to educate the customer. But by 1985 there were a million different things on the market and the only customer education was the Sear Catalog, Newtons Apple and Toy Store ads.
@9:16 Nintendo wasn’t unheard of. Have you heard of Donkey Kong? Popeye? Hogan’s Alley? Duck Hunt? Vs. Tennis and Baseball? Mario Brothers? These were all huge arcade hits before the NES. I knew the NES was going to be a hit because of their success in the arcade. When I played their arcade releases on the NES and saw they were very close in quality, I had to have a NES.
Bought a 7800 with almost all the games from ebay in 2000. Only paid $80 for the lot then. It is not video modded for composite so have not played it in years. The 7800+ will change that I hope.
I have one on order to make me next BEAT the high score. Where I will shatter the 5.51 on Dragster. The 7800 allows to play 2600 games so I figured it’s a better choice to beat some other games too. And after reverse engineering Pole Position and Dragster I feel comfortable on Atari.
I was a young teenager and had one friend that had a 7800 which I thought was pretty interesting to say the least and another friend that had a Sega Master System that I was much more enamored with but I held out and bought a Genesis with my own money and it was a decision I never regretted! 🙄 I wouldn't mind having a 7800 and collecting fit for it, It's just that I want an Atari Lynx more! 🙄😉😎
This was the first system I ever owned. The first system I played was the Intellivision, which my father owned. This was mine though. I played Pac-Man and Defender FOREVER!!!
The 7800 hundred should have been backwards compatible with the 5200 through an add on & should have included the POKEY chip 🍟 inside the console (backwards compatibility with the 2600 was a good idea 💡 👍🏾) , also it needed better 1st party support which it didn't have since Atari Games was a separate company from Atari Corporation post 1984. It's interesting to note 📝 at least imo that even though the 7800 graphically is a nice sufficient upgrade from the 2600 the NES is miles better & it's a night n day different to compare those 2 3rd generation consoles. I think this is best illustrated if you look at the difference between double dragon 🐉 🐉 on the 2600 vs 7800 vs NES 🤔.
But that's the thing, like he said in the video, no game properly took advantage of it's graphical capabilities. It had more enough power to hold it's own graphically with NES and even beats in some areas. It just didn't have the developer support and wasn't out long enough for the few developer who were making games to learn how to use it to it's full potential. Like with all new consoles, it doesn't matter how strong or capable it is, in the end what really matters the most...is the games. People are more than willing to ignore graphical or technical shortcomings, as long as they have access to wide variety of games that are fun and entertaining and that those games keep on coming. Unfortunately, the 7200 while it a few gems, it just could not even begin to take on the NES in that regard, as it already amassed a huge library of great games by the time the 7200 came out, and it was only getting bigger and bigger with not stop in sight.
I have no idea why I opted for the birthday gift of the Atari 7800 instead of a Nintendo circa 1988. I guess I was always behind the times. The system was... okay. I actually spent my younger years playing Intellivisions that belonged to my grandparents and a set of uncles and aunts, so getting 2600 games for my new system was a bit disappointing. As far as 7800 games I had Pole Position and later got Dig Dug, but that's it. Everything else was either someone doing a "hand me down" of a pile of 2600 games, or picking 2600 games up super cheap on "closeout" at Kay Bee toys at the mall. I finally got a Nintendo a few years later and got a little more with the times. The 7800 broke years later, but thankfully I kept all the games and found a "new" 7800 system courtesy of the local swap meet.
I think Atari should have focused on the computer line. The best games were available there and these projects were a distraction and confusing to the consumer. It would have been easier for third party programmers. Many programmed for Commodore because it had such a large user base. Most of the games you showed were already on the Atari computers. I must say that Jack's Atari was the best since the original 800. Also, think about it. If you are short on cash, why would you battle Apple, TI, and Commodore in one market as well as the top consoles in another. It really seems a shame considering their strong start in the home computer market.
You're spot on - the Atari 800 was introduced back in 1979 and was way ahead of its time. Had Atari forgot all about the 5200 & 7800 systems and simply focused on bringing down the price of it's 8-bit computer line, the Atari 800/800XL could have been positioned as the next step up from an Atari 2600.
I absolutely loved Xevius I would go down to Bobby Lee's that was one of are Arcades in town and I would bring just $1 dollar and it would last me 7 hours I got pretty damn good at Xevius
It should be noted that Atari was offered a licensing deal with Nintendo, that would have seen the Famicon marketed under the Atari banner in North America and Europe. Atari turned it down. A few years later Atari was similarly offered the opportunity to put their logo on what would become know as Commodore's Amiga computer line. While Tramiel was aiming at Texas Instruments, Atari was shooting itself in the foot. Repeatedly.
They definitely made poor business decisions. But I'm also glad the Atari/Nintendo deal didn't go down. I would far rather we got the Nintendo Entertainment System as is, not as an "Atari" product.
Atari was also offer a deal by Sega so Sega could release some of their Genesis and arcade games for the Atari Jaguar. Atari never sign the deal so Sega just end up scrapping the deal.
@@Retrorevelations It would have been exactly the same machine. Don"t get hung up on Brand Names. They are absolutely meaningless. Next time you walk into a mall, consider that the hundreds of stores are owned by maybe 3 or 4 companies. The shoe stores and fashion stores that "compete" for your money....all the same company. Brands are an illusion of choice. If the NES was branded by Atari it would have been exactly the SAME NES designed and manufactured by nintendo with a Fuji logo tacked on. (and might have saved us from the 5200 and 7800). What you may have seen though, is some games produced for the system by Atari and its cache of 3rd party developers, and THAT I would have very much liked to have seen. Nintendo would have become an unbeatable juggernaut. (and would have eventually just bought Atari to make it its North American brand while remaining 100% nintendo.) The SNES would have become the SuperAtari, but would have been the exact same SNES.
At least Tramiel brought the ST series to the table. Yes, he turned down the Amiga, but he brought something NEW to Atari instead of marketing old tech as new. (Of course he DID introduce the 130XE and XEGS during this time, so he also understood the pot of gold at the bottom of the Fuji logo and the value of existing software libraries.)
This is a nice video with good reporting on good research. I am autistic, however, which means what you think is background music while you talk is foreground music to me, and it is hard to listen for any length of time. In the future, please consider intro and outro music, but none while you're talking so we can catch every word. Thank you!
Duck hunt is what made the Nintendo sell, it was a new tech for home video games and a novelty that made parents curious enough buy it. I never got into video games after the arcades but later bought a Nintendo, just for the Duck Hunt game. Sega was bigger later in 89-90's with Sonic.
@@PresidentCamacho24 ok, but the gun was what made Nintendo sell, it was a gimmick that most had never seen or tried in a home system... then people got hooked on super mario bros... video games in the 2600 era were very low quality and not the same, just saying how it actually happened, not many had an atari let alone a "odyssey"...
@@PresidentCamacho24 and thinking back I didn't buy one, my cousin gave me one with the gun... then my brother took it... I never got into video games too heavily.
@@VenturaIT Not many people had an Atari? Even though I didn’t own an odyssey I had a few neighbors and cousins that had one. I’m confident you do not know what you are talking about.
The 7800 was my first game system. I enjoyed Ms. Pac Man, Galaga, Dr. J. vs. Larry Bird, and several others. Couldn't play it for long with those awkward controllers - they made my thumb and wrist sore when I got to level one hundred-something in Galaga. The NES was better for a variety of reasons but the 7800 had a lot going for it and a lot of potential. What I really miss about those early consoles was the variety of sports games. Nowadays, if you want to play a football game there is only one asshole to buy from - EA Sports. God bless John Madden, but EA's monopoly causes stagnation in the development of video game technology. Now, video games are just another mega corporation landscape, driven foremost by profitability. There hasn't been a viable boxing game for consoles in over a decade. Kinda sad.
Like others have said, I and everyone I knew went straight from the 2600 to the NES. I didn't know one soul who had a 5200 or 7800, and I've never actually seen one of either in real life. When I got my 2600 in 1982, video game consoles were a HUGE investment for Mom and Dad. The idea of swapping them out for a new system every few years was unheard of -- I mean, this was the era when you bought a console TV and kept it for 30 years, and if it broke you took it to a repairman!
And then, when the game libraries of these new Ataris consisted of the very same games with updated graphics, there was no way my folks were going to consider it. Also PC's were starting to be a thing, so if they WERE going to make that second investment, it would have been for a computer.
I remember when I finally got an NES, a year after all my friends had one. I called Mom into the room and said look at this! I wanted her to not regret her investment, and I was sure that if she really took time to take in a few frames of Super Mario Bros., she'd get it. Instead, she stared at it for a minute and said dismissively, "Oh, that looks just like Atari" then left the room. Ahhhh, parents.
To be fair to your mother, if you compare Mario in Mario Bros. from the Atari to the same character in the NES, there isn't much of an improvement, graphically. In my family we got an Atari 2600 in 1980 and didn't replace it until we bought a Super Nintendo in 93. The change was obvious to everyone.
@@robertfaler1947 Oooh, I gotta disagree. By 1985 standards, I personally feel like the leap in detail was pretty remarkable -- although I can understand a mom (who never payed close attention to those things) not noticing. That's interesting that you didn't replace your Atari until 1993. That used to be the norm -- you shell out hundreds for an "appliance", you expect to get at least a decade out of it.
@@speedgriffon2504 If you look at the graphics in general and include things like the background and frame rate then yes, the NES is a lot better than the Atari. But if you are only looking at the Mario character and ignore the fact that Mario takes up more space on the screen in the Atari, they look similar. Both machines had 8 bit graphics. I still have that Atari today and I've played some of the homebrew games, like Halo, on it.
@@robertfaler1947 Fair points.... HALO ON YOUR 2600??? Is such a thing really possible?
@@speedgriffon2504 The game looks a lot more like Berserk than Halo on Xbox. There are TH-cam videos if you want to see the gameplay yourself.
This was the first system I owned. It was a birthday present when I was 8 i think. I always wanted an Atari when literally everyone had them about the time the industry was crashing. It was amazing and games were like $10 since stores were desperate to liquidate stocks. Not too long after, the next door neighbor kid showed off his new Nintendo and it was awesome but I never could forget my 7800 and would still play it. I frequently expanded my library at garage sales with people literally dumping boxes of old video games for pennies.
Been playing some 7800 on the mister lately, and other than the audio sucks the games were good. Particularly Ikari Warriors I was enjoying.
I had a 7800, too, and I also appreciated the cheap games. We couldn't afford NES games but I had an entire library for the 7800. Rampage, Double Dragon and Food Fight were personal favorites. Did you have the paddle controller or the joystick?
I’ll be honest, I never took note of my 7800’s sound capabilities because at the time, I was too blown away by the upgrade in graphics from my 2600. Back in the day, we never really talked about sound, it was all about better and better graphics. I think the NES generation and Commodore gamers were more aware of good sound than us Atari fans. Little did we know. Either way, I enjoyed the hell out of my 7800’s limited library because the games were, in general, so fun to play.
It was a simple, solid strategy - back then, the only way we could learn about a video game was via photographs - magazines, catalogues, game boxes, etc. Therefore, since nobody could SEE how a game SOUNDED, the best place to cut corners and shave down costs would be the game's sound chip. As long as the games LOOKED good, nobody would know it SOUNDED like crap until it was too late!
The 7800 was developed with a low cost but high quality audio chip for the cartridges. But all that fell apart before the chip could get to final design.
I think this was always a dumb idea. The POKEY was YEARS old at the time the 7800 was being designed and was already dirt cheap to make. They should have put a pokey in the 7800 and perhaps even an optional additional pokey in the cartridge. That would have given the 7800 the best sound in a console at the time.
If the sound chip was that good, they could've tried marketing that aspect like ho the ps1 made a decent cd player. But this was the opposite problem. The sound was terrible, they weren't slapping those big names like Super Mario Bros or Legend of Zelda, they weren't hitting some new plateaus in graphics, it was just bound to fail.
@@hookah6579 The problem is Atari fell into the hands of Jack Tramiel before the general release of the 7800. Had Atari not fallen into Jack's hands, the history of the 7800 might be very different. Jack only wanted Atari for the name and logo to slap on whatever computer he could come up with and was completely disinterested in spending any money on video games. He released the 7800 as a total cash grab and refused to put any money into it.
We went from 2600 to Nintendo, poor Atari may have had better hardware, but they couldnt make games to save their lives
I quite enjoyed the first batch of 7800 games. Food Fight especially. But once a kid discovers the NES it's over. Of the later games, Planet Smashers was my favorite.
That was one of my favorites too.
Yeah man, mine too. First game I owned with bosses and a defined end.
Yep NES made Atari look like idiots, it was pretty sad.
Food Fight was also released for the XE Video Game System (or XEGS) in 1987.
Hey GTV! Can we get an episode on how modern analog sticks are just a rehash of the 2600's controllers (and others) joystick?
I got a 7800 for Xmas 86 when I was 6. We really enjoyed the system for a few years before NES Action Pack in 88. Great memories.
I finally got the 7800 in 2022. I love and embrace its chaotic story.
I had a 7800 in the mid 1990's, came in a boxfull of Atari stuff from a yard sale for $10. Now, I have an Atari 5200. I feel the Atari 5200 is more advanced, due to the included ability of digitized speech.
7800 controller was extremely uncomfortable. Other regions got an actual NES style gamepad that's so much better. I have it and absolutely love it.
That's discussed in detail in part 2
I think 7800 is a great name.
2600 was a hit!
and it's easy to assume it's 3X more powerful.
The team who made it wanted it to be called 3600, as it plays 2600 and felt like its sequel.
But Atari knew this would confuse ppl into thinking it was less powerful than 5200.
After my Atari 2600 I went the ColecoVision route. I apparently went all in and even talked my parents into getting the Adam computer.
I grew up poor and played 2600 until the early 90s. I didn't get an NES until the price dropped to $99 shortly after SNES was released. I did not have the latest and greatest consoles until I was out on my own and earning my own money.
Atari 2600 first for me, then onto Colecovision. Next was the NES with the ROB robot! The robot was stupid, but what the hey.
There are some really good 7800 games, and if you look at the new homebrews, you can really see the potential of the 7800. There were really just two things going against it:
1: Atari... They made many many mistakes with this (and other) systems. They were just floundering, even with good hardware.
2: Those original controllers... I have a pair of them, but don't use them. The Europad (NES looking) pads are great tho...
3: (I know, I said 2) Nintendo and their partner licensing. Fair or not, it was a genius business decision.
I still don't understand how people can play properly on NES gamepads. I am right-handed, my right hand is fine motor skills, I can move joypads and crosses with my right hand very accurately and quickly, but I absolutely cannot do the same with my left hand. On joysticks, I always controlled with my right hand, fingers, and with my left hand I only pressed the button. This is why I can't play NES / SEGA / XBOX / PS normally.
@@BellaLugoshi I agree in general, but the 7800 joysticks are just painful to use. The europads are better, less painful. But I agree I would have preferred a real joystick. Something like a competition pro...
I am the sad kid who had this machine and after a year of playing Star Trek I’d play it again you just pretend it’s Star Wars and it was the best Star Wars game
@@TeddyBelcher4kultrawide star trek on 7800?
Why didn't they just release those UK controllers in USA in 1988😆 they coulda fooled some kids
Have an issue with your comments at 5:40. Being someone who lived through that era, I can tell you that what most people (kids) wanted at that time WAS to play the arcade ports at home! We would spend tons of quarters in the arcade and the promise of a console port was real hype! Just look at that crap for the 2600 known as PacMan. No one cared - just as long as they could play it at home. Look at the marketing behind the Colecovision - "bring the arcade home". Now, between the time the 7800 was developed and it was released 3-4 years later, the market changed.
Most of your vids are very well researched for someone who didn't live through the era. I'm sure you do a ton of reading. But this comment you made is not accurate.
I’m 55 years old and you’re absolutely correct.
I lived it.
He's a poser, that's why. His first console was a PS2 😂
@JamesChatting no...he's mostly well informed and puts alot of time into his videos. I think it's great someone tries to look into a past era and make a video for us to enjoy.
I have an Atari 7800 Pro System and the majority of the games that were issued by Atari for it. I feel that it was a good upgrade for owners of the Atari 2600 VCS because one could play one's old games and use one's old controllers. However I also like the new homebrew game cartridges that are now available for the Atari 7800 Pro System, which can be bought online from at least three different stores (AtariAge, Good Deal Games Homebrew Heaven & Atari2600).
Do any of the homebrew feature sound chips?
@@blackterminal I believe that a select few of the homebrew game cartridges do have special sound chips, but they also have a slight variation of their printed circuit boards to accommodate for both the sound chip and a bonus RAM chip to improve both graphics and sounds.
I loved mine, I got the 1984 model with laser disc add on expansion tab
I can't believe your views aren't in the hundreds of thousands. I'm a new subscriber and very happy to see the excellent content you are producing.
I agree, his videos are really well done. I think it's probably a really limited market for people who are still interested in this stuff though.
@@kevinmach730lol well he's still picking up new watchers because I'm one. You're right though I'm a 1979 original and probably on the young side of those who are interested.
More and more after market games are coming out for the 7800 that use either the Pokey sound chip or AtariAge's PokeyOne sound chip. The Pokey chip is what was used in cartridges from the two back-in-the-day releases Commando and Ballblazer. The Pokey chip was also used in many of Atari's arcade games at the time. Since the 7800 is natively backwards compatible with games for the 7800 it has a huge library of games that it can play. Even PAL exclusives. Every year new games are released for both the 2600 and the 7800. The 7800 is how I play 2600 games.
People also forget the 7800 can play some intellivision games. I still have our old 7800 from my childhood. Have pretty much all the native games for it but we gradually were picking up any cartridge that would fit in the slot just to see if they would work. Turns out many intellivision titles do.
@@Grisbane I don't see how that's possible. Please provide a list of compatible games. Now, I DO know that the Sega SG-1000, Colecovision, and original MSX share the same hardware, but the BIOS is different with each system. A Dina 2 in One, or a Telegames Personal Arcade can play both SG-1000 games and Colecovision games, but it has two different cartridge slots. Which slot you use determines the BIOS used.
First of all, the 7800 did beat the Master System in sales in the United States.
Second what are the odds that with five childhood friends, one owned a Sega Master System back in that day and another owned the 7800 back in the day?
I had a 7800 and an SMS, but then again, I was the odd ball.
@@IntoTheVerticalBlank I had a 7800, SMS, and an NES and at least initially, that's the order of most played to least. For me anyways. Eventually the SMS because my primary console but it took a couple of years.
In all fairness, growing up in a smaller (not SMALL, but not a city) town, I don't know that I ever heard of the 7800, until I read about it (and the Lynx) in magazines in the early 90s. By that same token, I never heard of, much less SAW a Master System in stores as a kid. I didn't know it existed until I saw it profiled in the 1992 Holiday Buyer's Guide EGM issue. I was blown away that Sega had console before Genesis.
What I can't believe is how Atari would ever think the TIA chip would be acceptable in 1984 moving forward. The Famicom was out in Japan and it was widely known they were making a move here. Sega was getting their Mark III ready for the US as well and the sounds coming from the two Japanese consoles were next level. The games were not these old arcade experiences and gave players so much more.
@D M
Definitely minus the awful controllers. I have to believe had Atari simply fixed their controllers or came out with a pad as that was where the market was headed...the 5200 may have been able to go toe-to-toe with Nintendo and Sega. Yes, the Nes and Master System were more powerful but not an incredible amount. Hell, I can see Atari doing what Nintendo did with helper chips to make up for any shortfalls. That would have been interesting because with Atari completely involved Nintendo wouldn't have been able to illegally monopolize the market. They would have sued them the second it happened but they were still reeling from the game crash to realize what was happening.
Coincidentally, it was Atari that actually did sue Nintendo and won over their monopolistic policies. That was what inevitably enabled Sega to really become a threat to Nintendo's dominance. With Atari still heavily in the game I believe we would have seen even more amazing games. Unfortunately, that didn't happen and Japan took over our game industry.
Still have mine and it still works along with every other Atari game system made. My grown up kids now play then with my grandkids
The 7800 could have been really really really good had just a few things been different
It needed more/better games. The same exact problem with the Lynx and Jaguar. None of those consoles were BAD. They just had poor software support.
But honestly, NES was kind in the mid-to-late 80s. It was still kicking Sega's ass in 89/90. The Genesis didn't really catch on until 1991, 1985 (technically 1983) hardware was ruling the market. But those MMC chips on the carts really helped boost the NES beyond past what it could originally do (hence Mario 3, Punch Out, Kirby, etc.)
The only way the 7800 would have been successful is if it released far earlier than it did, and Atari put all their available recourses behind creating great games for it. That was never going to happen with Tramel leading Atari, so its a moot point.
Newsmakers Tech very true! One mistake was the rather meager advertising budget. Another was the late release. Yet Another was retaining the Atari VCS/2600 TIA sound chip for backwards compatibility purposes. Only two Atari 7800 games bothered with the extra expense for the optional Pokey Sound chip for better sound, and although I've got from many the opinion that the TIA sound chip seems to have performed slightly better on many Atari 7800 games there was only so much improvement to be had. Yet another difficult factor still was Nintendo's monopolistic third party licensing practices which were anti-competitive, and hurt the Atari 7800, Sega SG1000, and Sega Master System original libraries since most every third party game developer/publisher was wary of crossing Nintendo, and not being able to develop/publish further games on the Nintendo NES.
@@bmkretrogaming7634 That problem seems to come from game companies that were willing to sign such a deal with Nintendo. Why would a company want to release a software for just 1 system?
@@louistournas120 right! Of course although it happened too late to help out either Atari, or Sega in the third generation U.S. courts did eventually rule Nintendo's third party licensing practices at the time monopolistic, anti-competitive, and illegal. Of course I still tend to factor in the other above stated reasons if to a lesser degree.
I still have mine and I love it. The 7800 games I have are very very enjoyable and the graphics are good. Moreover, the backwards compatiblity for 2600 games is amazing! When I got the 7800 I had hundreds of 2600 games which I still have to this day.
Moreover, I love that I can use my 2600 controllers with the 7800.
The 7800 could have held it’s own if it was released back in 1982 in lieu of the 5200.
It was too powerful for 1982, in the states. Hell, the Famicom and Sega Mark 1 came out in Japan in 1983. The Colecoviosion also came out in the states in 83. The 5200's main problem, was that the controller sucked, the console had some funky issues. It's power, for the time, was fine. And then the US Game Crash happened.
Hell, the Colecovision was actually a huge success for it's first year, but the Crash killed it off as well.
@@Retrorevelations the crash didn't kill Colecovision, Adam did.
@@Retrorevelations Lol. In 1983 Colecovision was already better than the 7800..
Atari should have brought out the 800XL (think it was their best selling 8bit computer) sooner rather than the expensive and crippled 1200XL. AND brought ought out the XEGS then too (guess it would have been called the XLGS?). They needed the right balance of tech and price and a good heap of marketing. The C64 cost over $500-600 when it debuted. The Vic-20 was cheap but not as powerful as either the 64 or XL. But that’s not how it all played out.
With a pokey chip inside
I still have a 2600,5200,and 7800..love playing dig dug n pole position. Lots of good memories
I actually own a 7800, and it still works. About a couple of years ago I asked someone at a retro game store (that is now closed…shame) about the grainy picture I’ve been getting from the old RF that came with the system. I was told to buy something using an AV cable type of system. I don’t remember what it was since I’ve temporarily packed the system away to bring it back out once I have a game room.
By "grainy", do you mean the static-like interference that seems to come and go as you fiddle with the switchbox? If so, the problem is that the contacts in the switch get dirty/oxidized over time and don't make a good connection.
A few years ago, someone I know wanted to hook up an Atari 2600 to a CRT TV, but the picture was terrible. I popped the back off the switchbox and connected the contacts directly from where the RF cable plugs in to the ones going to the TV. That made a HUGE difference in picture quality and all the interference was gone.
Granted, the RF output on old consoles is never going to match a modern system, but cutting out the switch greatly improved the picture. You can also buy adapters that have a female RF socket to a coax male connector. Plug the RF into it, then screw it onto the coax connection on the TV.
There are apparently mods you can do to get composite output from the 7800, but I seem to recall one person saying that working on the 7800 is kind of fiddly and he hated doing it.
If your using an old switch box thats probably the issue. You can find a 5 buck piece to bypass the switchbox. Hooks it right to the coaxial on the TV.
I was using the original RF unit that came from the system. Since the one I have now which plugs directly in the picture was clear as a bell. Still I don’t remember what I used, but it was the best option I had to play the old games on the old CRT TV we had which we don’t anymore. Now if there is some way of putting this system through HDMI without modding it, I would give it a try.
@@robert_roland63 there must be adapters to put coaxial through hdmi. But it probably wouldn't upgrade the image unless you mod to bypass coaxial all together.
I've gotten use to the original even on flatscreen. But I noticed not all flat screens are the same. Some look blurry, some make it hard to see darker colored pixels as they blend into the background, and some don't work at all. But my small Magnavox flatscreen looks really good on original 7800 and 5200. So I'm happy.
@@Lightblue2222 Makes sense to me. I’m hoping once I get my game room set up I’ll try bypassing, but yeah it won’t really upgrade the image so I don’t know how well it will work without modding anything. 😁
ahh my first console ever!! being backwards compatible with 2600 was a big plus, I had so many 2600 games too.
Same. I was the kid that got this instead of the NES in the 80s. But I had a lot of fun. I had friends that had the C64 and NES, so I still got to play those games, but I was content playing this system which was the one my parents could afford. The backwards compatibility with the 2600 came at the price of the sound chip, but being able to play old games was solid…neighbors and friends unload their old 2600 games (and even paddle controllers) which allowed me to enjoy classics like Pitfall and Kaboom, while enjoying the 7800 games I had like Ms PacMan, Rampage and Food Fight.
@@mrp4242 yess my 7800 was the "We have Nintendo at home" for a while. :D still had fun with it until I got an NES eventually
I loved this console at the time, especially the Robotron port - I made small controller boards, bolting down the stock controller on one side and two arcade push button switches on the other which really helped (great for Xevious etc) - since I made two, made them able to mate together with a couple screws, which made Robotron very playable
Yes, the robotron was great as well as the ball blazer
If the 7800 design philosophy was what Atari brought to the table when initially designing a successor to the 2600, history would have played out very differently. The 7800's internal architecture is nothing short of inspired, it's power-to-price ratio is something any new hardware design should aspire to.
The 5200 was poised as professional-grade arcade hardware and I don't think consumers were ready for such an investment back in 82. It had all the internals of their 8-bit computer line, very expensive to manufacture. A real supersystem
Instead, the 7800 took a different approach. More of a middle of the road thing, a prosumer model. They advertised it as being able to play arcade quality titles at a budget price. Very smart to carve out their own niche instead of choosing to go head to head with Nintendo.
I assume you are leaving the importance of hi fidelity sound precessing out of the equation completely.
I"ll take a mediocre game with good sound quality over a decent game with sound that I have to mute.
@@PeBoVision Had the 7800 launched in 84, the Gumby sound chip wouldn't have been left on the cutting room floor. The use of the Pokey chip in Commando and Ballblazer showed that an inexpensive audio coprocessor was a viable solution for the TIA's shortcomings.
Still, the TIA was more than adequate for SFX. They should have limited it's use so the player didn't need to mute the game.
@@segastardust8836 The Atari 8 bit computers demotrated the prowess of pairing Pokey with TIA. It was no SID, but it was a great sound solution (and beat the heck out of Yamaha chip used in the ST line)
Atari simply undervalued the importance of hi fidelity sound in electronic entertainment - until the STe which was too little too late.
@@PeBoVision My original point was simply that the 7800 offered a better cost/performance ratio than the 5200. I think the 5200 architecture is great for a home computer though. There was an excellent lecture online by the former head of GCC, he delved a little deeper into how the 7800 came together, it was an excellent presentation.
@@segastardust8836 And I completely agree. 5200 architenture WAS a home computer though, it was a very-slightly tweaked 400. Which makes it's incompatibily with the 8 bit line by-design. At least the XEGS was allowed to remain an XE.
It is noteworthy just how long Atari kept 1979 technology on the shelves as "NEW!" tough. If they released the iPhone we'd still be on iPhone1, but it would be called 23.
By the time the 7800 came out, back in the day, all of us first gen gamers like me had discovered chasing skirt, driving and flipping burgers at the mall.
True. No going back to your youth.
True gamers never left their moms basement. We are still there to this day
Always computer and video games before hoes
@@jamessullivan4391 lol he said no skirt
@Enhancement Thank You because you said no skirts. Clearly you did not understand him or me. If you dont know what "chasing skirts," means. I cannot help you.
food fight and pole position 2 was my great memories in the "pre nintendo era"
The 7800 had a lot going for it. For starters, it was backwards compatible with most 2600 games. And some games like "Pole Position II" and "Double Dragon" were great. The controllers weren't bad. And releasing improved classics like "Ms. Pac Man" and "Donkey Kong" would have sounded great in theory.
Does the 7800 have big games? Games that are like Super Mario Bros, with long maps, many levels, power ups, a health bar?
I guess you need ROM chips that are 128 KB or 256 KB to have such games and the 2600 usually had 4 KB only.
These are really well done documentaries.
I never saw a 5200 in the wild back in the day. I saw very few 7800s come to think of it. Once Nintendo became super popular, my household got an nes in late 87.
We got a NES in 1989. We had a Coleco Gemini before that.
I was considering the Atari 7800 but I was a kid and just familiar with the Atari name.
Over time, I heard more and more about the Nintendo and eventually saw Super Mario Bros at the store.
Atari 5200 the Jan Brady of Atari.
Does that mean the 7800 is the Cousin Oliver?
It's always interesting when I get reminded that this system even existed. I do not remember it at all. I don't remember seeing it on store shelves, I don't remember seeing commercials, I don't remember knowing anyone who had one. Everyone had an NES and I had cousins who had a Master System (which I would eventually buy from them, complete with a literal grocery bag full of games). But the 7800 was completely off of my radar.
Hey thanks for watching! Part two will be out in a few days!
My first gaming console back in '87. I enjoyed it for a couple years until Xmas of '89 when i got the NES. Very fond memories. I wish i would've kept it. I had a great library including 2600 titles.
Love these... Have to check if you have a video on the Timex Sinclair 1000.
I love the 7800, and am so grateful to see the love it's getting today from homebrewers!
My family got a 7800 and we were satisfied. I think the price combined with 2600 game capability made my father choose it. We had a 2600 and many games. We got a NES in 88 or 89 when they apparently went on sale and every kid on the street got one... except my neighbor and best friend at the time. They got a Sega so it worked out we could play both. Just had to switch houses.
Had the 2600 in 1981. Saw the 5200 and 7800 come out. Was waiting for something new to come out. I got the Sega master system in 86. Everyone else got the Nintendo NES. I was the only one in school with it. I do miss trading Atari 2600 cartridges..
Just started watching this series of videos and they’re really good. Hopefully you cover Lynx and Jaguar but not got that far yet
You are not wrong in saying that using the TIA chip for sound was a bad idea - but saying it was exactly the same audio as the 2600 is just incorrect. In 7800 mode, it had 100% access to TIA for audio, and could blow the 2600 audio out of the water. Just do a simple comparison of Ms. Pac Man, Xevious and Donkey Kong vs. the 2600 versions. Total night and day vs. those versions.
I'm upvoting you for being factually correct, but in practice, the subtle differences are nothing compared to what the competition was doing.
Or even what the Intellivision could do.
Those 32 pitches don't accurately match up to any kind of scale or musical tuning. Nothing else sounds like this. It's like it was designed by aliens.
Whose religion has outlawed every form of music except the most experimental glitch-core and repetitive musical hooks so short they count as viral by size alone.
I mean, don't get me wrong, it's great that Double Dragon's audio no longer makes my ears bleed out brain matter, but...
I wouldn't consider this a night and day difference.
Perhaps the difference isn't night and day. However, I will say it's commendable that programmers could make any music on the 7800 at all. Perhaps it would have been better had they simply never tried and reserved the tia exclusively for sfx.
@@juststatedtheobvious9633 I totally agree that a POKEY was 100% what they should have done. Even in 1985/86 that was a wonderful sounding chip - my sole point is that the 7800 get knocked in most reviews for sounding exactly the Atari 2600, when in fact it does not - it sounds substantially better with 7800 games.
Galaga sounds good on 7800. Its far more nostalgic to the actual arcade than it is 2600 sounding.
The most technically impressive sound with 7800 TIA probably goes to the game Jinks. It uses sound samples for voice and menu music. No way could 2600 TIA do that.
Also worth mentioning there's a number of games that sound more lively on 7800 tia vs 5200 pokey "imo".
Sound effects in Choplifter are really bad on 5200.. and some of the arcade classics are off pitch on 5200 like the extra life on Centipede as where 7800 gets it perfect.
But especially 7800 vs 2600.
Compare the number of sounds the 7800 Crossbow has compared to the 2600 version, or Mario Bros, Ms Pacman etc...
The 2600 is lucky to get 3 or 4 sound effects per game while 7800 easily gets over a dozen.
@@Lightblue2222 I'd say all the GCC written software sounds good. They didn't overestimate the Tia's abilities. I think Ms Pac-Man sounds good too.
if the 7800 came out before nintendo entertainment system it would of stood a chance but also they should of stayed in the computer market
No way, Atari was not going to do the grassroots, drive to get systems back into the mkt. Nintendo promised to buyback old systems. Nintendo was promising a video entertainment system including a robot and gun.
Atari would of had to answer for why carry a new system after discontinuing the 5200, and 2600 games sitting in the discount bins.
Atari was lucky Nintendo made video games hot again,and they were able to cheaply re-enter the video game mkt. He spent next to nothing less than a million to advertise sold 3 to 4 million systems of 7800 another 5 or 6 million 2600 systems, plus a ton of Blackstock games.
Atari focusing on home computers instead of gaming consoles is the reason why they crashed and burned. They took a big shi** on the one thing that ever made them any money. Name one company from back then that is still making money in the home computer business??? Commodore, Sinclair, Amstrad, Amiga, etc etc.. They all crashed and burned.
Yet Nintendo focused 100% on video games and consoles and is still making money hand over foot to this day.
I got one as a high school graduation present in 1989. I never had any other 7800-specific game besides the pack-in, Pole Position, but I lugged the system and a bag full of 2600 games to my dorm. Then my roommate showed up with an NES....
Great video
4:04 - This stock footage cracks me up sometimes.... GEEZ THAT THUMB IS LOOOONG!
If this had come out in the UK as planned and the Tramiel's invested some money in getting some serious software support, it could of given the Master System a run for it's money.
Instead Bob Gleadow convinced the Tramiel's to go with the XEGS then release the 7800 later, leaving Atari with 3 8-bit consoles (2600, XEGS and 7800) all competing for the same, limited market space 😭
What classic video game suystem would you like to see us cover next time?
How about continuing with the Atari theme and covering the Lynx?
Watara SuperVision
We would love to cover the Lynx in the future! We just have to get one first!
Colecovision would be good
Newsmakers Games if you haven't done them yet the IntelliVision, and the ColecoVision are excellent consoles for the topic.
With the way Nintendo had locked out just about all 3rd party developers, any system released during that time was destined to fail. Between the NES, Atari 7800, and Sega Master System, I'd say the Master System was the most powerful of the 3, and would have had a good chance of dominating market share if they had access to the 3rd party software support that Nintendo had at the time. Sega and Atari had ports of their own arcade titles to fall back on, but it just wasn't enough to compete with Nintendo.
SMS had the most powerful base hardware, but the NES with MMC chips in the carts was capable of outperforming it in many ways. But even if Nintendo didn't have a lock-down on third parties during that era, I have a feeling the NES' exclusives, especially Nintendo published exclusives like Mario, Tetris, Zelda, Metroid, Punch Out, etc., would have still put it over the top. SMS had some great games, but IMO no games/franchises that were QUITE on the level with what NES had to offer.
Sega wanted Atari to do the American Distribution of the GENESIS,
(because the SMS commercially failed) - imagine if ...
It is a crazy what if, because Atari was all about their ST computers at the time, which shared its main CPU with the Genesis. Imagine if they had collaborated a bit closer, if the next ST had inherited some of the graphic capabilities of the Genesis, or if they had Sega programming games for their ST directly.
Not long afterthis came out Atari slashed prices on the 65 xe and 130xe dramatically , they were cheaper than the console , pretty sure Atari survived till the 90s solely on the Atari St selling.
Yep, and the computers had better sound and a far larger available game library.
Love the 7800. So glad Atari is re-releasing some titles. Hope they release lots more.
No point in trying to sound like underestimating the Sega Master System other than showing lack of knowledge. The Sega Master System was a huge market leader in Europe and South America.
Donkey Kong for the 7800 wasn’t released until 1988…. DK on NES was ‘82…. By ‘88 nobody cared….
DK on Famicom wouldn't have come out until 83, the same year the system launched. DK on the NES didn't come out until June 1986 in NA. It was re-released in 1988 in the "Donkey Kong Classics" cart with DK Jr., which I believe itself was RE-released in 1990. So yes, people cared.
Face palm, either this poor guy hasn't a clue, or he's a time traveler.
I still have dj for my nes
Hey, can you imagine what would have happened if atari and nintendo became partners back when nintendo wanted them to distribute the nes and then they became partners with sony when the playstation debacle happened?
I still have my Atari 7800 in it’s original box along with about a dozen games or so. My grandparents bought it for me back in the day as a gift because I wanted it, more so than the NES. Mostly because I could play my 2600 games on the 7800 system and I thought that was so cool. I enjoyed the system, it was quite entertaining. But…. the NES and Sega systems just killed it in graphics, sound, game selection, and game play. Finding games for the 7800 was so aggravating and sometimes almost impossible. Most places didn’t carry them. Plus, I knew no one that had the system where I could try out their 7800 games, so there was a lot of remorse when it came to buying new games for the system. Most of them sucked. The box art would pull me in, but overall many of the games were terrible. My worst game experience was Karateka. It WAS terrible. While I’m getting screwed on sucky Atari games, all my friends we playing Super Mario and Contra..!!!!😢😂😂 But the heck… I still have the system and it still works😂
I had one when I was a kid, loved it (till my younger brother got a nes ...........then I loved that) but still good memories.
Great Channel.
Of all the video game consoles I've owned over the years, the Atari 7800 was one I passed on when it was released. If it had been released on time? Sure. However, it just had no chance by the time it was out in the market.
Gotta say thank you for this video, it has helped me know more what to expect when I finally own one myself :) I do wonder how the homebrews are for it...
My parents came home with one of these instead of a Nintendo because they were on sale at Zellers, and I was devastated! But it came with Xevious, and I played the heck out of it! I never noticed that the sound sucked because the TV I had was mono. I eventually got a NES, but I still have fond memories of the 7800. IMHO, what hurt the 7800 more then anything was the controller. After playing for a while your hand completely cramps up. I think I tried to get a Sega controller to work with it but I can't remember if it did.
Exactly! No one talks about the hand cramps!
That is such a shocking figure for the early '80s. Any other tech company who lost half a billion dollars would have simply declared bankruptcy.
It is amazing that Jack Tramiel was able to revive Atari, particularly with the spectacular failure of Atari and Nintendo's failed partnership deal (check out the video about this).
The Nintendo Entertainment System (NES) was the first gaming system I ever used, and an instant classic. Just based on the graphics I have seen of the Atari 7800, it wasn't noticeably better, and the NES had better sound. 🤷
That's about how I see it too, fun to play around with the games and learn the history though. I like to play like NES double dragon and compare it to playing on 7800
I got the 7800 for Christmas 1987. Just got the Pole Position 2 that came with it. Never saw other games for it at the stores. Still looking. Got 2600 games for but no 7800 titles. I thought the controller was rough.
It's hard to say much about Atari's post VCS offerings. I had long since moved to home computers by the time the 5200 and 7800 came to market (by the time the latter had dropped, the 520ST was at CES!)
The 5200 was a 400 with an incompatible cartridge port and no keyboard (I already had that level of graphics and sound on my 800XL)
The 7800's sound chip is unacceptible for its date of relese, especially since its development was to compete with the newer, more advanced systems coming down the pipe. And when it released, I was preparing for the move to 16-bit computing.
Why would I want a 7800 ? A pretty Pole Position wasn't enough.
During this time, the only game console that held any interest for me was the Neo-GEO, which was actually bringing an arcade machine home. I stood in awe at the store - at the price!! This was a period where I was just managing to pay rent, buy food and feed the XL.
- ooooh...1200 baud modems...limited supply...$99...if I hold off on paying the bills until next month...
Nolan Bushnell who founded Atari Corp was long gone as such Atari Corp was headed by the Tramiels and the already obsolete hardware of the Atari 7800 had been sitting in warehouses during the change of command situation.
I really like that in your video you point out that the sound processor was indeed a bad design choice but also the issue was that Atari still had some credibility as a videogame systems maker and the young teenager demographic in the 1980s was slowly learning about the differences between the technology specifications once they had friends who had gotten the Nintendo N.E.S. in either 1985 or 86 versus a friend who unfortunately got stuck with the Atari 7800.
It would get worse if they had anyone who had gotten the Sega Master System because even playing the the 1986 available software lineup of a couple of games would also heavily expose this.
The other issue is that although the Sega Master System was actually a 1985 Sega Mark III and the NES was a 1983 launched Nintendo FamiCom the latter was getting some really advanced game software like Super Mario Bros which was released in 1985 and often people misunderstood the game wasn't really a launch game but a game that had gotten finished for retail and released that year and slowly started a phenomenon of attracting the entire family into videogames...
A factor that Sega was able to capture with Alexx Kid in Miracle World if only the original 1986 management staff at Sega of America were to have had a more organized plan of attack and strategy to represent the hardware to the consumer where instead there was just a lot of bad management decisions made by Sega of America's staff in 86 plus the much lower priced Atari 7800 basically helping prevent Sega Master System become established.
Also it is worthy of note that while some people will take to blaming the Tramiels, the fact is that Atari Corp had changed management and had been in transition where they logically should not have released the Atari 7800 especially because it wasn't even designed under the leadership of the Tramiels and it was clear that after they (Atari Corp rejected Nintendo and later Sega MegaDrive offers) their home grown products would eventually lead to the downfall of the Atari videogame systems period.
Nice video! Love my Atari 7800 personally.
I remember when I first saw the 7800 announced in Electronic Games magazine. They had artist's renderings of the games, but at the time, I thought that they were color printouts of actual screenshots. Regardless, I loved the look of the games and wanted one. Of course it never came out in my area until years later. One day I was in a toy store and there it was sitting on the shelf. Unfortunately at a cost of close to $100, I couldn't afford it.
I eventually bought a used one and some games off the net a few years later. I like the system, but I hate the joysticks. I would always use a generic joystick and put the games into 1-button mode. I do wish they'd included a Pokey chip in the system itself though.
I would have loved to see what the system could have done for more advanced arcade games like Zaxxon or Crystal Castles.
I had Super Missle Attack and Star Trek! I loved that system!
Growing up I absolutely loved my Atari 7800......at least until I got my NES
I'm tired of people saying the 5200 controller was terrible. I bought one on release and no one using the controller correctly at the time made complaints about the controller that every youtube "reviewer" does every time. The 5200 controller was one of the most awesome things about the system. Nothing I saw at the time had graphics even close. Especially compared to Intellivision. Compare Night Stalker vs Galaxian or Pac-Man, the difference is night and day. Play Star Raiders on the 2600 and then on the 5200. The 2600 controller will give you cramps. The 5200 controller was buttery smooth analog. Plus the number pad had specific functions for Star Raiders. Yes, there was one big problem for the controller, the 4 trigger buttons and 3 start menu buttons. They stopped working over time but could be fixed by disassembling and reassembling it. And I don't think many people had this issue because they didn't play for 8 hours at a time like I did. I knew two people at the time that hated the controller. They gripped it just as you would the 2600 controller, which made no sense to me. You didn't need to manhandle the controller. They held it like they were going to wrestle it. The 5200 controller was meant to be used as a fine instrument. More like the Kraft PC controller. Yes, the games were hard to find but almost all Toys-R-Us stores had a large selection. I think the real problem for Atari was their marketing, it was a complete disaster the whole decade. No one knew what to buy. The concept of the 2600 was so powerful that Atari didn't have to educate the customer. But by 1985 there were a million different things on the market and the only customer education was the Sear Catalog, Newtons Apple and Toy Store ads.
@9:16 Nintendo wasn’t unheard of. Have you heard of Donkey Kong? Popeye? Hogan’s Alley? Duck Hunt? Vs. Tennis and Baseball? Mario Brothers? These were all huge arcade hits before the NES. I knew the NES was going to be a hit because of their success in the arcade. When I played their arcade releases on the NES and saw they were very close in quality, I had to have a NES.
Bought a 7800 with almost all the games from ebay in 2000. Only paid $80 for the lot then. It is not video modded for composite so have not played it in years. The 7800+ will change that I hope.
I loved it. Wished they made more games for. F14 tomcat was my favorite flight simulator.
I have one on order to make me next BEAT the high score. Where I will shatter the 5.51 on Dragster.
The 7800 allows to play 2600 games so I figured it’s a better choice to beat some other games too.
And after reverse engineering Pole Position and Dragster I feel comfortable on Atari.
My mom asked my if I wanted an Atari 7800 or a Nintendo. I chose the Atari. Biggest regret of my childhood.
I was a young teenager and had one friend that had a 7800 which I thought was pretty interesting to say the least and another friend that had a Sega Master System that I was much more enamored with but I held out and bought a Genesis with my own money and it was a decision I never regretted! 🙄 I wouldn't mind having a 7800 and collecting fit for it, It's just that I want an Atari Lynx more! 🙄😉😎
This was the first system I ever owned. The first system I played was the Intellivision, which my father owned. This was mine though. I played Pac-Man and Defender FOREVER!!!
Your videos are a perfect length.
Rock climbing at 11:19 looks like Rock Canyon Utah.
I loved moon patrol on 2600 why I have no clue but for me it was the first game I ever grinded on.
The 7800 hundred should have been backwards compatible with the 5200 through an add on & should have included the POKEY chip 🍟 inside the console (backwards compatibility with the 2600 was a good idea 💡 👍🏾) , also it needed better 1st party support which it didn't have since Atari Games was a separate company from Atari Corporation post 1984.
It's interesting to note 📝 at least imo that even though the 7800 graphically is a nice sufficient upgrade from the 2600 the NES is miles better & it's a night n day different to compare those 2 3rd generation consoles. I think this is best illustrated if you look at the difference between double dragon 🐉 🐉 on the 2600 vs 7800 vs NES 🤔.
But that's the thing, like he said in the video, no game properly took advantage of it's graphical capabilities. It had more enough power to hold it's own graphically with NES and even beats in some areas. It just didn't have the developer support and wasn't out long enough for the few developer who were making games to learn how to use it to it's full potential.
Like with all new consoles, it doesn't matter how strong or capable it is, in the end what really matters the most...is the games. People are more than willing to ignore graphical or technical shortcomings, as long as they have access to wide variety of games that are fun and entertaining and that those games keep on coming.
Unfortunately, the 7200 while it a few gems, it just could not even begin to take on the NES in that regard, as it already amassed a huge library of great games by the time the 7200 came out, and it was only getting bigger and bigger with not stop in sight.
I have no idea why I opted for the birthday gift of the Atari 7800 instead of a Nintendo circa 1988. I guess I was always behind the times. The system was... okay. I actually spent my younger years playing Intellivisions that belonged to my grandparents and a set of uncles and aunts, so getting 2600 games for my new system was a bit disappointing. As far as 7800 games I had Pole Position and later got Dig Dug, but that's it. Everything else was either someone doing a "hand me down" of a pile of 2600 games, or picking 2600 games up super cheap on "closeout" at Kay Bee toys at the mall. I finally got a Nintendo a few years later and got a little more with the times. The 7800 broke years later, but thankfully I kept all the games and found a "new" 7800 system courtesy of the local swap meet.
I think Atari should have focused on the computer line. The best games were available there and these projects were a distraction and confusing to the consumer. It would have been easier for third party programmers. Many programmed for Commodore because it had such a large user base. Most of the games you showed were already on the Atari computers. I must say that Jack's Atari was the best since the original 800. Also, think about it. If you are short on cash, why would you battle Apple, TI, and Commodore in one market as well as the top consoles in another. It really seems a shame considering their strong start in the home computer market.
You're spot on - the Atari 800 was introduced back in 1979 and was way ahead of its time. Had Atari forgot all about the 5200 & 7800 systems and simply focused on bringing down the price of it's 8-bit computer line, the Atari 800/800XL could have been positioned as the next step up from an Atari 2600.
I absolutely loved Xevius I would go down to Bobby Lee's that was one of are Arcades in town and I would bring just $1 dollar and it would last me
7 hours I got pretty damn good at Xevius
I wanted one of these so bad back in the day
It should be noted that Atari was offered a licensing deal with Nintendo, that would have seen the Famicon marketed under the Atari banner in North America and Europe. Atari turned it down.
A few years later Atari was similarly offered the opportunity to put their logo on what would become know as Commodore's Amiga computer line.
While Tramiel was aiming at Texas Instruments, Atari was shooting itself in the foot. Repeatedly.
They definitely made poor business decisions. But I'm also glad the Atari/Nintendo deal didn't go down. I would far rather we got the Nintendo Entertainment System as is, not as an "Atari" product.
Atari was also offer a deal by Sega so Sega could release some of their Genesis and arcade games for the Atari Jaguar. Atari never sign the deal so Sega just end up scrapping the deal.
@@Retrorevelations It would have been exactly the same machine. Don"t get hung up on Brand Names. They are absolutely meaningless.
Next time you walk into a mall, consider that the hundreds of stores are owned by maybe 3 or 4 companies. The shoe stores and fashion stores that "compete" for your money....all the same company. Brands are an illusion of choice.
If the NES was branded by Atari it would have been exactly the SAME NES designed and manufactured by nintendo with a Fuji logo tacked on. (and might have saved us from the 5200 and 7800). What you may have seen though, is some games produced for the system by Atari and its cache of 3rd party developers, and THAT I would have very much liked to have seen.
Nintendo would have become an unbeatable juggernaut. (and would have eventually just bought Atari to make it its North American brand while remaining 100% nintendo.) The SNES would have become the SuperAtari, but would have been the exact same SNES.
At least Tramiel brought the ST series to the table. Yes, he turned down the Amiga, but he brought something NEW to Atari instead of marketing old tech as new. (Of course he DID introduce the 130XE and XEGS during this time, so he also understood the pot of gold at the bottom of the Fuji logo and the value of existing software libraries.)
Great work Sir thank you
I LOVE ATARI 7800 TOO MY FRIEND AND I HAD A ATARI 7800 TOO
This is a nice video with good reporting on good research. I am autistic, however, which means what you think is background music while you talk is foreground music to me, and it is hard to listen for any length of time. In the future, please consider intro and outro music, but none while you're talking so we can catch every word. Thank you!
I played Ninja Golf and its worth the meme alone, and kinda fun!
If they had the pokey on board, it would have helped
Fun vid, thanks!
I had one just for Ms.Pac Man, and it did a really good job of it.
I've gotten well over 30 years of play out of my 7800. I could stand to pick up some new controllers, but otherwise, she still runs like a charm.
That's awesome. You think the cell phone will work in 30 plus years? Ha
Jack trameil is the Walt Disney of computers, in how he ran things.
Duck hunt is what made the Nintendo sell, it was a new tech for home video games and a novelty that made parents curious enough buy it. I never got into video games after the arcades but later bought a Nintendo, just for the Duck Hunt game. Sega was bigger later in 89-90's with Sonic.
The light gun wasn’t new. The Magnavox Odyssey had one prior to the 2600.
@@PresidentCamacho24 ok, but the gun was what made Nintendo sell, it was a gimmick that most had never seen or tried in a home system... then people got hooked on super mario bros... video games in the 2600 era were very low quality and not the same, just saying how it actually happened, not many had an atari let alone a "odyssey"...
@@PresidentCamacho24 and thinking back I didn't buy one, my cousin gave me one with the gun... then my brother took it... I never got into video games too heavily.
@@VenturaIT Not many people had an Atari? Even though I didn’t own an odyssey I had a few neighbors and cousins that had one. I’m confident you do not know what you are talking about.
@@VenturaIT Obviously
I just recently acquired a 7800. And unfortunately it doesn't turn on, but I'm still gona gather some 7800 games for when i get a 2600+
The 7800 was my first game system. I enjoyed Ms. Pac Man, Galaga, Dr. J. vs. Larry Bird, and several others. Couldn't play it for long with those awkward controllers - they made my thumb and wrist sore when I got to level one hundred-something in Galaga. The NES was better for a variety of reasons but the 7800 had a lot going for it and a lot of potential. What I really miss about those early consoles was the variety of sports games. Nowadays, if you want to play a football game there is only one asshole to buy from - EA Sports. God bless John Madden, but EA's monopoly causes stagnation in the development of video game technology. Now, video games are just another mega corporation landscape, driven foremost by profitability. There hasn't been a viable boxing game for consoles in over a decade. Kinda sad.
Growing up in the 80s none of my friends had a 7800 or a 5200. We all had Nintendos, and a couple SEGA Genesis, 😆.
Had a 2600 and a 7800 after, the 7800 to this day had the best version of mrs.pacman and joust in my own opinion.