Absolutely superb narration and an emotional tribute to the men of the 38th division, my great grandfather still lays where he fell in Mametz Wood, it truly is a special place.
RIP to my great grandfather, Private Alfred Thomas Rich, 19th (Service) Battalion (Glamorgan Pioneers) The Welsh Regiment, 38th Welsh Division. He died exactly 96 years ago today, 11th July 1916, in Mametz Wood whilst (according to reports) was cutting barbed wire down to clear a path prior to an attack. He was 44 and left behind a large family. His story, and the stories of all the other lads is so movingly portrayed in this video, the atmosphere left me speechless. Thank you.
Visited the "Dragon" in February on a long walk from Guillemont to Albert, via Ginchy, Longueval, Fricourt, Contalmaison, La Boiselle and Aveluy. Thanks for this....powerful stuff.
My great great great uncle fought in Mametz, he also experienced the Christmas truce. He lived through the war but surely no man truly survived the war.
Thank you for this. Recently learnt that two of my ancestors were at, and survived, the battle of Mametz Wood. One later died in another battle, the other survived the war.
My Great Uncle Lance Corporal George "Cuthbert" Vaughan, 18680, of the 16th battalion Royal Welch Fusiliers was killed in action at Mametz Wood on 11 July 1916. He was 24 years old. He has no known grave and is commemorated on the Thiepval memorial, the Barmouth War memorial, and on a small plaque outside Asterley Methodist Chapel in Shropshire, close to where his family lived. I will be in the wood next Monday 11 July 2016 to commemorate him and his brave comrades. I will leave behind a piece of Welsh slate to honour him, and plant daffodil bulbs and small Welsh flags to honour his comrades. The birds (and the dragon) will forever sing in Mametz. Their sacrifice will not be forgotten.
I love David Jones' "In Parenthesis" as the definitive account of what it was like to go over the top, and as poetry of the most profound beauty. I've been into Mametz Wood three or four times to date, and it's just as the video shows.
Marvellous tribute to the men who lsot their lives. I visited to pay my respects in 2011, and we stopped at Harry Fellows memorial where one of the group read his poem. And the birds were still singing in Mametz Wood. Diolch yn fawr.
Our great Uncle Private John Jones 24116, Royal Welsh Fusiliers, 16th Battalion, who was KIA at Mametz Wood on July 10th 1916, He was just 22 years old and lived in Pen-Y-Ffordd FFynonngroew, He is remembered at Thiepval. We are so very proud of him. RIP
Such horror portrayed in this amazing film. Cant believe the Armistice centenary is only 24 days away.. seemed only yesterday I was at the Somme in 2016 Lest we forget
Diolch.I am ex forces, my tears don't come easy. But i cried when i walked across the field into Mametz wood thinking of my grandfather who survived the battle, but was bayoneted in the hand and thigh. He was killed at the battle of P Ridge Doiran two months before the end of the war.No known grave. I cried at Doiran as well. I cried watching this. Diolch yn fawr.
My dad often talked about his uncle Clifford who died at Mametz..He was one of seven brothers who fought in the war including my grandfather but he was the only one who perished.
That sir, is a wonderfull and very moving film. I have visited Mametz wood meny times. Your film has opened my eyes to how it realy was. God love those lads. May they rest in peace 100 years on. Thankyou sir
My Grandfather, Lance Corporal M.Phillips, 11th Battalion,South Wales Borderers, Reg No 22429 fought at Mametz Woods in July 1916, he survived this battle , but was killed in action on the 31.7.1917 at Passchendaele. My Grandfather left a widow and 5 small children at home in Wales. Yn ango ni chant fod Gwyr y cledd, mawr eu clod They shall not be forgotten Men of the sword, great their fame Granddaughter Shirley Spann nee Richardson
Vincent Kane of BBC Wales fame did a broadcast from Mametz Wood in about 1986 it was very moving.I've been trying to find this but without success....your video is amazing..many thanks
Both my Taid (grandfather) John Williams and his brother Robin Talsarnau in Merioneth. I understand my Taid wrote poetry while there but I have not seen any it. They were injured but went on to serve further.
Love your film wffire. I visted Mametz with Dr Robert Phillips many years ago. Robert was a fine historian that inspired many. He died on christmas eve a few years ago. His book for younger secondary school children is available on Amazon along with his other academic books. "Battle of Mametz Wood"
But wait.... this is different? I first watched it a few years ago and the opening scene was through the gun sights of a machine gun. Do I not remember correctly or is this a different version?
My Great Uncle Private Edward Wellstead was also 19th (Service) Battalion (Glamorgan Pioneers) The Welsh Regiment, 38th Division and he died 10th July 1916 in Mametz Woods. How did you find out more about him? Example: "(according to reports) was cutting barbed wire down to clear a path prior to an attack" Also, I wonder if they were mates and knew each other?
First, truth or legend: Just before they attacked the men sang the Welsh hymn is Beth sydd i mi yn y byd ("What is there for me in this world" or What awaits me in this world? ) sung to the tune of Joseph Parry's tune Aberystwyth. I have heard and read this statement in many places over the Internet but I have found no authority to support it. As far as I can tell neither Renshaw, or Hughes, nor Griffith mentioned it in their books. In his book In Parenthesis David Jones does make reference to men singing Joseph Parry's Aberystwyth which is cited in the credits here and in Jones’ book the reference is, as here, to “Jesu’ Lover of my soul… sung to Aberystwyth which is a very different Welsh hymn. Every reference I see has been attributed to by unidentified sources by unidentified persons, and never a citation to a verifiable source. Can anyone provide reliable citation confirming that Beth sydd i mi yn y byd ("What is there for me in this world" or What awaits me in this world?) was the song sung by the Welsh fusiliers at Mametz Wood? Second: for anyone interested in the Great War: we all know just the seminal literature is massive and unapproachable. The best source to begin digesting it all from the perspective of people who suffered it I highly recommend Dan Carlin's Blueprint for Armageddon. Six, very long, FREE, downloadable pod casts. Best part is that the talks are not limited to the Western Front. < www.dancarlin.com/hardcore-history-series/ > Totally superb!
You really seem to have become obssesed with this matter Francois. I'll try and explain again. One thing is clear, some kind of poetry was sung to the tune 'Aberystwyth' by the men waiting to attack Mametz Wood. As you say David Jones does make a reference to the men singing 'Jesu Lover of My Soul'. There are some problems with this. Jones was a member of the London Welsh battalion of the Welsh Fusiliers. Most of the soldiers in this battalion were second generation Londoners, there was even a generous sprinkling of Cockneys. What is probable is that few were fluent Welsh speakers. Indeed, Jones himself couldn't speak Welsh. The men doing the singing however were in battalions predominantly made up of North-Walians. For most English would have been a second language, and not a language they would have been at ease with. Indeed I’d guess a fair number would have been monoglot Welsh speakers. In this their darkest hour, they would have turned to the familiar, they turned to Aberystwyth, a widely used hymn tune in Welsh chapels. Whatever words he heard being sung to the tune of Aberystwyth it was from a distance of at least 1/4 mile if not 1/2 a mile along the line. With the battle for the Woods about to start, I don't think the men were in the mood for a full throated, chest out Cymanfa Ganu style sing-song. My guess is that it would have been a low-key, contemplative, comfort seeking exercise - they weren’t out to impress anyone with their singing. Bearing this in mind you can imagine what Jones heard (himself a very nervous private facing the same dangers). A snatch of a song drifts on the breeze along the line. He can’t recognise the words but it’s sung to a tune he knows as ‘Jesu, lover of my soul’, and that, understandably, is what he reports in ‘In Parenthesis’. My contention is that the men sang in Welsh, their first language, and they would have sung either ‘Iesu cyfaill f’enaid i’, which is the Welsh equivalent of ‘Jesu lover of my soul’ or they would have sung ‘Beth sydd i mi yn y byd?’. I have no problem with either of these, except that the historian and author Clive Hughes did tell me that he’d seen a letter from one who was there saying that the men had sung ‘Beth sy’dd i mi yn y byd?’ So where does this leave us? a. The tune Aberystwyth was sung. b. It’s highly improbable that they sang in English, despite what David Jones says. c. That they sang either of the Welsh versions. I’m happy for it to go into Welsh mythology that we don’t know, and we’ll never know for certain which version was really sung. Does it really matter? I don’t think so, it’s enough to know that these desperately scared men embraced the familiar, they turned home for comfort in their hour of need.
First: This is an epic poem .. almost 200 pages. I believe Mametz Wood is covered in Part 7 but I still can not find this excerpt. Can you please provide a precise citation? Second, I believe your credits say that, just before they went over the top the Fusiliers sang Beth sydd i mi yn y byd ("What is there for me in this world") to the tune of Joseph Parry's Aberystwyth. However the only citation David Jones makes in ‘In Parentheses’ is to ‘Jesus lover of my soul’ (a very different lyric) to the tune of Aberystwyth (which is the lovely choral embedded in your presentation). See ‘In Parentheses' Pt. 7, pg 160. Can you provide some clarity on both these issues? Thanks
+Francois Arouet Firstly the excerpts in the film are taken from various sources and not just 'In Parenthesis' as I have stated in the credits. Secondly the extracts from 'In Parenthesis' are not one extract but several, chosen and put together to give the flavour of the book and hopefully the battle. in my copy two extracts are on Part 7 182-183. David Jones was in the London Welsh Battalion of the Fusileers - few could speak Welsh. The singing occurred in a Welsh speaking battalion quite a bit further along the line. David Jones might have recognised the tune and associated it with a more well known hymn - 'Jesu, lover of my soul'. Further research into other sources reaveals that these words were not the ones sung but rather a hymn that would perhaps have been more familiar to lads from Welsh speaking West Wales - 'Beth sydd i mi yn y byd?' Also since Jones was writing in English, presumably for an English speaking readership it would have better suited his purposes to have opted for 'Jesu lover of my soul'.
+Huw Davies Thanks so much. As a writer and researcher lack of citation and attribution on the Internet (especially TH-cam) can be infuriating. Your efforts are commendable. I do wish we had precise citation to all the spoken words and credits we could cut and paste. For clarity: 'Jesu, lover of my soul' and 'Beth sydd i mi yn y byd’ are both sung to the tune of Joseph Parry's Aberystwyth. 'Jesu lover of my soul' would certainly have been a familiar song to the soldiers but the more poignant twist is the story I can not verify: that as the Fusileers went over the top at Mametz Wood they sang not 'Jesu, lover of my soul' but the more bitterly ironic 'Beth sydd i mi yn y byd' ("What is there for me in this world") - "A song in tribulation". The ironic poignancy and imagery of the Fusiliers facing certain death to sing the latter (as oppose to the former) is what I want to focus on. I wish I could find a men’s choral of Beth sydd i mi yn y byd' but I can not. Most important I’d like to find reliable authority for the facts I’ve see related. That would be helpful. You will find the discussion here but it’s littered with dead links. 1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=78472&page=5 The discussion begins here: 1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?s=5950578dbcd5c8a7fcb13774361de6bc&showtopic=78472&page=1 The David Jones reference appears here: 1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=78472&page=3 and states, “According to David Jones' In Parenthesis, about to go over with the 15th (London Welsh), the "genuine Taffies" in the RWF unit to their right (16th RWF) were indeed singing "Jesu Lover of My Soul..." (probably in its Welsh version "Iesu Cyfaill F'enaid i") to the tune Aberystwyth.” While no one provides specific citation THE seminal book on the battle is, Mametz: Lloyd George's Welsh Army at the Battle of the Somme, by Colin Hughes Published by Gliddon Books (1990) ISBN 10: 0947893202 ISBN 13: 9780947893200. I have put out an ILL to get hold of it. This discussion on The Welsh at Mametz Wood 9 July 1916 begins here: 1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=78472&page=1 If you haven’t seen it you may appreciate the discussion. The string provides many references with Colin Hughes’ and other sources but if anyone could nail down the more specific story of 'Beth sydd i mi yn y byd' at Mametz Wood that would be helpful. Thanks again for a truly wonderful tribute.
+Francois Arouet If you follow this link to the 'Word from Mametz Wood' 1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=168264&hl= I expand a little on sources and also acclaimed military historian/authour Clive Hughes (LST-164) endorses that it was 'Beth sydd i mi yn y byd' that was sung. Here is a link to Stuart Burrows singing the hymn. th-cam.com/video/JPg86MOVD7g/w-d-xo.html I don't think we'll ever know for certain which version was sung; 'Iesu Cyfaill Fenaid Cu' or 'Beth Sydd i Mi yn y Byd' - but I think we can be sure that it was in Welsh since the 16th. was a North Wales Battalion. Many of it's members, at that time, would have been uncomfortable in using English. Also the vast majority would have been devout chapel men, and in that area of Wales all chapel services would have been in Welsh. I opted for 'Beth sydd i mi.....' for the simple reason that the words of the first verse seemed more appropriate to the occasion.
I’m confused, we have references to the 16th and the 14th Divisions of the RWF but I thought it was the 38th Division that lifted their voices before battle. Can someone clarify? And BTW: if you have not seen it or downloaded the podcasts on The Great War by Can Colin do see Blueprint for Armageddon at www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-50-blueprint-for-armageddon-i/
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Absolutely superb narration and an emotional tribute to the men of the 38th division, my great grandfather still lays where he fell in Mametz Wood, it truly is a special place.
RIP to my great grandfather, Private Alfred Thomas Rich, 19th (Service) Battalion (Glamorgan Pioneers) The Welsh Regiment, 38th Welsh Division. He died exactly 96 years ago today, 11th July 1916, in Mametz Wood whilst (according to reports) was cutting barbed wire down to clear a path prior to an attack. He was 44 and left behind a large family. His story, and the stories of all the other lads is so movingly portrayed in this video, the atmosphere left me speechless. Thank you.
Visited the "Dragon" in February on a long walk from Guillemont to Albert, via Ginchy, Longueval, Fricourt, Contalmaison, La Boiselle and Aveluy. Thanks for this....powerful stuff.
This is in my opinion the very best short film on the subject of WW1 made in modern times, superb!
Just returned once again from Mametz and again watched your film... very moving and a very fitting tribute to our Welsh lads. Thank you xxx
Everybody sang....and beauty came like the setting sun....my heart was filled with tears.....(Siegfried Sassoon)
A very impressive film and moving tribute to the men who died in Mametz Wood
My great great great uncle fought in Mametz, he also experienced the Christmas truce. He lived through the war but surely no man truly survived the war.
Thank you for this. Recently learnt that two of my ancestors were at, and survived, the battle of Mametz Wood. One later died in another battle, the other survived the war.
My Great Uncle Lance Corporal George "Cuthbert" Vaughan, 18680, of the 16th battalion Royal Welch Fusiliers was killed in action at Mametz Wood on 11 July 1916. He was 24 years old. He has no known grave and is commemorated on the Thiepval memorial, the Barmouth War memorial, and on a small plaque outside Asterley Methodist Chapel in Shropshire, close to where his family lived. I will be in the wood next Monday 11 July 2016 to commemorate him and his brave comrades. I will leave behind a piece of Welsh slate to honour him, and plant daffodil bulbs and small Welsh flags to honour his comrades. The birds (and the dragon) will forever sing in Mametz. Their sacrifice will not be forgotten.
Colin Dyas May they never be forgotten
Beautiful
Superb! Poignant. Deeply moving. But 91 likes? What?
Fantastic film ,well done sir.
I love David Jones' "In Parenthesis" as the definitive account of what it was like to go over the top, and as poetry of the most profound beauty. I've been into Mametz Wood three or four times to date, and it's just as the video shows.
Well done. I payed my respects at Mametz Wood this summer of '12. The video brings back those memories and adds to my understanding of the field.
Marvellous tribute to the men who lsot their lives. I visited to pay my respects in 2011, and we stopped at Harry Fellows memorial where one of the group read his poem. And the birds were still singing in Mametz Wood.
Diolch yn fawr.
Thank you for this. R.IP great uncle Cliff. Very proud xx
Our great Uncle Private John Jones 24116, Royal Welsh Fusiliers, 16th Battalion, who was KIA at Mametz Wood on July 10th 1916, He was just 22 years old and lived in Pen-Y-Ffordd FFynonngroew, He is remembered at Thiepval. We are so very proud of him. RIP
Although Granddad Pugh survived Mamet,s Wood, he came home with shell shock, many thanks to granddad Willie for getting him home
Such horror portrayed in this amazing film. Cant believe the Armistice centenary is only 24 days away.. seemed only yesterday I was at the Somme in 2016
Lest we forget
brilliant and so powerful
omg that is so touching it makes me so proud to be a Welsh man yma o hyd
Diolch.I am ex forces, my tears don't come easy. But i cried when i walked across the field into Mametz wood thinking of my grandfather who survived the battle, but was bayoneted in the hand and thigh. He was killed at the battle of P Ridge Doiran two months before the end of the war.No known grave. I cried at Doiran as well. I cried watching this. Diolch yn fawr.
My dad often talked about his uncle Clifford who died at Mametz..He was one of seven brothers who fought in the war including my grandfather but he was the only one who perished.
Great great great uncle Emrys Elwyn Hughs 17th Royal Welch Fusiliers.
That sir, is a wonderfull and very moving film. I have visited Mametz wood meny times. Your film has opened my eyes to how it realy was.
God love those lads. May they rest in peace 100 years on.
Thankyou sir
Thank you, your comments are much appreciated, and as you say thanks to all the lads.
My Grandfather, Lance Corporal M.Phillips, 11th Battalion,South Wales Borderers, Reg No 22429 fought at Mametz Woods in July 1916, he survived this battle , but was killed in action on the 31.7.1917 at Passchendaele.
My Grandfather left a widow and 5 small children at home in Wales.
Yn ango ni chant fod
Gwyr y cledd, mawr eu clod
They shall not be forgotten Men of the sword, great their fame
Granddaughter Shirley Spann nee Richardson
Thankyou for this x
Who is reading the poems? This is so beautiful I'm learning it by heart. I just love the tragic lines from Graves.
Vincent Kane of BBC Wales fame did a broadcast from Mametz Wood in about 1986 it was very moving.I've been trying to find this but without success....your video is amazing..many thanks
Thank you John. Glad you appreciated the film.
Both my Taid (grandfather) John Williams and his brother Robin Talsarnau in Merioneth. I understand my Taid wrote poetry while there but I have not seen any it.
They were injured but went on to serve further.
How appropriate - strains of Aberystwyth in the background..........Fantastic place now - one of my three places.....
Love your film wffire.
I visted Mametz with Dr Robert Phillips many years ago. Robert was a fine historian that inspired many. He died on christmas eve a few years ago.
His book for younger secondary school children is available on Amazon along with his other academic books.
"Battle of Mametz Wood"
But wait.... this is different? I first watched it a few years ago and the opening scene was through the gun sights of a machine gun. Do I not remember correctly or is this a different version?
My Great Uncle Private Edward Wellstead was also 19th (Service) Battalion (Glamorgan Pioneers) The Welsh Regiment, 38th Division and he died 10th July 1916 in Mametz Woods. How did you find out more about him?
Example:
"(according to reports) was cutting barbed wire down to clear a path prior to an attack"
Also, I wonder if they were mates and knew each other?
Graves mentions "Aberystwyth" punctuated by shellfire as he led his Welsh Regiment platoon into trenches in 1915 (before his posting to 2nd RWF.)
First, truth or legend:
Just before they attacked the men sang the Welsh hymn is Beth sydd i mi yn y byd ("What is there for me in this world" or What awaits me in this world? ) sung to the tune of Joseph Parry's tune Aberystwyth.
I have heard and read this statement in many places over the Internet but I have found no authority to support it. As far as I can tell neither Renshaw, or Hughes, nor Griffith mentioned it in their books. In his book In Parenthesis David Jones does make reference to men singing Joseph Parry's Aberystwyth which is cited in the credits here and in Jones’ book the reference is, as here, to “Jesu’ Lover of my soul… sung to Aberystwyth which is a very different Welsh hymn.
Every reference I see has been attributed to by unidentified sources by unidentified persons, and never a citation to a verifiable source.
Can anyone provide reliable citation confirming that Beth sydd i mi yn y byd ("What is there for me in this world" or What awaits me in this world?) was the song sung by the Welsh fusiliers at Mametz Wood?
Second: for anyone interested in the Great War: we all know just the seminal literature is massive and unapproachable. The best source to begin digesting it all from the perspective of people who suffered it I highly recommend Dan Carlin's Blueprint for Armageddon. Six, very long, FREE, downloadable pod casts. Best part is that the talks are not limited to the Western Front. < www.dancarlin.com/hardcore-history-series/ >
Totally superb!
You really seem to have become obssesed with this matter Francois. I'll try and explain again.
One thing is clear, some kind of poetry was sung to the tune 'Aberystwyth' by the men waiting to attack Mametz Wood.
As you say David Jones does make a reference to the men singing 'Jesu Lover of My Soul'. There are some problems with this. Jones was a member of the London Welsh battalion of the Welsh Fusiliers. Most of the soldiers in this battalion were second generation Londoners, there was even a generous sprinkling of Cockneys. What is probable is that few were fluent Welsh speakers. Indeed, Jones himself couldn't speak Welsh.
The men doing the singing however were in battalions predominantly made up of North-Walians. For most English would have been a second language, and not a language they would have been at ease with. Indeed I’d guess a fair number would have been monoglot Welsh speakers. In this their darkest hour, they would have turned to the familiar, they turned to Aberystwyth, a widely used hymn tune in Welsh chapels.
Whatever words he heard being sung to the tune of Aberystwyth it was from a distance of at least 1/4 mile if not 1/2 a mile along the line. With the battle for the Woods about to start, I don't think the men were in the mood for a full throated, chest out Cymanfa Ganu style sing-song. My guess is that it would have been a low-key, contemplative, comfort seeking exercise - they weren’t out to impress anyone with their singing. Bearing this in mind you can imagine what Jones heard (himself a very nervous private facing the same dangers). A snatch of a song drifts on the breeze along the line. He can’t recognise the words but it’s sung to a tune he knows as ‘Jesu, lover of my soul’, and that, understandably, is what he reports in ‘In Parenthesis’.
My contention is that the men sang in Welsh, their first language, and they would have sung either ‘Iesu cyfaill f’enaid i’, which is the Welsh equivalent of ‘Jesu lover of my soul’ or they would have sung ‘Beth sydd i mi yn y byd?’. I have no problem with either of these, except that the historian and author Clive Hughes did tell me that he’d seen a letter from one who was there saying that the men had sung ‘Beth sy’dd i mi yn y byd?’
So where does this leave us?
a. The tune Aberystwyth was sung.
b. It’s highly improbable that they sang in English, despite what David Jones says.
c. That they sang either of the Welsh versions. I’m happy for it to go into Welsh mythology that we don’t know, and we’ll never know for certain which version was really sung. Does it really matter? I don’t think so, it’s enough to know that these desperately scared men embraced the familiar, they turned home for comfort in their hour of need.
First: This is an epic poem .. almost 200 pages. I believe Mametz Wood is covered in Part 7 but I still can not find this excerpt. Can you please provide a precise citation?
Second, I believe your credits say that, just before they went over the top the Fusiliers sang Beth sydd i mi yn y byd ("What is there for me in this world") to the tune of Joseph Parry's Aberystwyth. However the only citation David Jones makes in ‘In Parentheses’ is to ‘Jesus lover of my soul’ (a very different lyric) to the tune of Aberystwyth (which is the lovely choral embedded in your presentation). See ‘In Parentheses' Pt. 7, pg 160.
Can you provide some clarity on both these issues? Thanks
+Francois Arouet Firstly the excerpts in the film are taken from various sources and not just 'In Parenthesis' as I have stated in the credits. Secondly the extracts from 'In Parenthesis' are not one extract but several, chosen and put together to give the flavour of the book and hopefully the battle. in my copy two extracts are on Part 7 182-183.
David Jones was in the London Welsh Battalion of the Fusileers - few could speak Welsh. The singing occurred in a Welsh speaking battalion quite a bit further along the line. David Jones might have recognised the tune and associated it with a more well known hymn - 'Jesu, lover of my soul'. Further research into other sources reaveals that these words were not the ones sung but rather a hymn that would perhaps have been more familiar to lads from Welsh speaking West Wales - 'Beth sydd i mi yn y byd?' Also since Jones was writing in English, presumably for an English speaking readership it would have better suited his purposes to have opted for 'Jesu lover of my soul'.
+Huw Davies Thanks so much. As a writer and researcher lack of citation and attribution on the Internet (especially TH-cam) can be infuriating. Your efforts are commendable. I do wish we had precise citation to all the spoken words and credits we could cut and paste.
For clarity: 'Jesu, lover of my soul' and 'Beth sydd i mi yn y byd’ are both sung to the tune of Joseph Parry's Aberystwyth. 'Jesu lover of my soul' would certainly have been a familiar song to the soldiers but the more poignant twist is the story I can not verify: that as the Fusileers went over the top at Mametz Wood they sang not 'Jesu, lover of my soul' but the more bitterly ironic 'Beth sydd i mi yn y byd' ("What is there for me in this world") - "A song in tribulation". The ironic poignancy and imagery of the Fusiliers facing certain death to sing the latter (as oppose to the former) is what I want to focus on. I wish I could find a men’s choral of Beth sydd i mi yn y byd' but I can not. Most important I’d like to find reliable authority for the facts I’ve see related. That would be helpful.
You will find the discussion here but it’s littered with dead links.
1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=78472&page=5
The discussion begins here: 1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?s=5950578dbcd5c8a7fcb13774361de6bc&showtopic=78472&page=1
The David Jones reference appears here: 1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=78472&page=3 and states, “According to David Jones' In Parenthesis, about to go over with the 15th (London Welsh), the "genuine Taffies" in the RWF unit to their right (16th RWF) were indeed singing "Jesu Lover of My Soul..." (probably in its Welsh version "Iesu Cyfaill F'enaid i") to the tune Aberystwyth.”
While no one provides specific citation THE seminal book on the battle is, Mametz: Lloyd George's Welsh Army at the Battle of the Somme, by Colin Hughes Published by Gliddon Books (1990) ISBN 10: 0947893202 ISBN 13: 9780947893200. I have put out an ILL to get hold of it.
This discussion on The Welsh at Mametz Wood 9 July 1916 begins here: 1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=78472&page=1 If you haven’t seen it you may appreciate the discussion.
The string provides many references with Colin Hughes’ and other sources but if anyone could nail down the more specific story of 'Beth sydd i mi yn y byd' at Mametz Wood that would be helpful.
Thanks again for a truly wonderful tribute.
+Francois Arouet If you follow this link to the 'Word from Mametz Wood' 1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=168264&hl=
I expand a little on sources and also acclaimed military historian/authour Clive Hughes (LST-164) endorses that it was 'Beth sydd i mi yn y byd' that was sung. Here is a link to Stuart Burrows singing the hymn.
th-cam.com/video/JPg86MOVD7g/w-d-xo.html
I don't think we'll ever know for certain which version was sung; 'Iesu Cyfaill Fenaid Cu' or 'Beth Sydd i Mi yn y Byd' - but I think we can be sure that it was in Welsh since the 16th. was a North Wales Battalion. Many of it's members, at that time, would have been uncomfortable in using English. Also the vast majority would have been devout chapel men, and in that area of Wales all chapel services would have been in Welsh. I opted for 'Beth sydd i mi.....' for the simple reason that the words of the first verse seemed more appropriate to the occasion.
I’m confused, we have references to the 16th and the 14th Divisions of the RWF but I thought it was the 38th Division that lifted their voices before battle. Can someone clarify?
And BTW: if you have not seen it or downloaded the podcasts on The Great War by Can Colin do see Blueprint for Armageddon at www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-50-blueprint-for-armageddon-i/
BTW: I find no reference to writer historian Clive Hughes. Do you mean Colin Hughes who wrote Mametz...? Where is the story written?
typical of english historians, ignored the sacrifice made in both world wars by the welsh divisions in action.
Indeed Glyn!
da iawn, huwpec
+Martin Huws Diolch Pec. Shwt wyt ti ers sbel?
+Huw Davies Da iawn 'achan. Wedi ymddeol, yn dal i sgrifennu. A ti?