About 7 years ago I had a confirmation and felt strongly that marriage was between one man and one woman … and that’s the way it will be in the eternities.
Very powerful, thank you Michelle and thank you Brother and Sister Palmer!! We just need to have eyes to see and ears to hear and we can know the truth!! 💛
Absolutely fabulous episode 🙏 thank you so much. Felt the holy ghost, felt spiritually enriched with soundness, truth, and simplicity ❤ I love you guys, keep up the good work! Remember that when you throw a stone into a pack of dogs, the dogs that bark the loudest are the ones that were hit 🙏 May God bless you in all things righteous and holy 🙏❤
Agreed about it not being taught recently. Bednar gave a talk a year or so ago where he said “this is how you can tell if it’s doctrine” and one thing was “it is taught recently and frequently”.
I'm so glad you two are not calling Joseph, hyrum, Emma, and Lucy liars like the church does inadvertently! They were not liars!!!!!!!!! None of them ever taught or supported more than one wife... Especially not anything sexual.
No, they are calling Brigham and many other prophets and apostles adulterers and apostates. Not to mention calling every prophet and apostle right up to the present liars or ignorant fools. That's exactly what one does when they embrace this false revisionist history on plural marriage.
Thank you, Bro Palmer for your honesty and integrity. I am tired of members trying to convince me that the church always taught that Joseph was a polygamist. This is simply not true! I'm 63 and grew up as a generational member, and polygamy always was taught that it started with Brigham Young. This change of teaching only started with the Gospel Topic Essays and has been falsley asserted that it has always been taught that it started with Joseph. Our young people have no idea but us as the older generation know and should have the integrity to speak out when something is misrepresented. I have been ridiculed and scorned and told i am not a good member for not keeping my mouth shut when i know in my heart otherwise!
@@dl1130 It did begin with Joseph. But let's pretend for a moment it didn't. Notice how the automatic conclusion of you, Palmer, and others is that Brigham must have been wrong. As if he wasn't a prophet. You're saying he was so out of touch with the Lord, so clueless, and basically so rotten that he taught and practiced adultery for decades. And yet he somehow held onto the keys? This shows plural marriage itself is really the issue for the revisionists. It's got nothing to do with what Joseph did or did not do. That's just their way of feigning loyalty to the Restoration while crapping on every other prophet and apostle from Brigham to President Nelson.
Thank you, thank you, thank you, for this wonderful video! I have been a lifelong member of the church and in those 60+ years there have been two issues that I have not been able to defend...the Priesthood restriction and polygamy. If a nonmember asked me questions about either of those I wanted to hide because I have never received a satisfactory answer. This interview with Michelle has opened my eyes a little more. I do not have to accept plural marriage as gospel doctrine. I never believed it was but could not defend my opinion. After this, I feel better about being a polygamy denier.
@@jaredshipp9207 Here's a novel idea, when truth resonates with people, don't claim moral superiority and gaslight them into believing they're on the road to apostasy. Get a life.
@@ImogeneBettr Unless it's not truth that is resonating with them at all. And especially when their inability to discern between truth and error can lead others out of the Church. Many of those embracing this revisionist history on plural marriage have already left the Church. How many more will so the same in the next 5 years?
I've listened to Michael before, and I'm not even talking about her stance on polygamy and I don't even care what side you're on. But when I listen to her, I feel yucky! I still love you two and always will! Please listen to her other podcasts. At least she's not as dangerous as Julie Hanks.
If you believe that polygamy was instituted from God and by joseph smith then you literally have never read the book of mormon, nor do you hold it up and support it as the word of God. Period. You literally have no room to dispute this. And your probably a p3do 🙏
The last thing Michelle Stone is, is truth and light. And the ones who think she is are usually on their way out of the Church (if they haven't already left).
Brother Palmer, Thank you for having Michelle on your show. I am just finishing a paper that systematically refutes the legitimacy and morality of polygamy. Would you care to read it?
Jared, Apparently your testimony is built on a foundation that is more fragile than mine. You’re afraid of the wrong thing. Faith is a hope based on things which are true. You can’t have faith based on an untruth-only a weak and fragile belief. Keep searching-maybe you’ll get it.
I am 67 years old and this has caused me to reconsider all that I have believed about polygamy. This makes sense to my soul. I got out McConkies Mormon Doctrine and under Plural Marriage he states, "the Lord revealed the principle of plural marriage to the prophet. Later the prophet and leading brethren were commanded to enter into the practice, which they all did in all virtue and purity of heart..... The holy practice will commence again after the second coming of the son of man and the ushering in of the millennium. " What do you think about that? (Love your insights!!)❤️
She's not anti-temple. She's pro truth. Provide a counter that justifies the blood oaths and other masonic creepiness that Brigham introduced. It cannot be attributed to Joseph.
@@charlottequist8327 Which Palmer is not even aware of. One of his biggest problems is he's just lazy. Instead of actually doing his homework for his TH-cam channel, it's much easier for him to just list his past callings for the hundredth time.
If you believe that polygamy was instituted from God and by joseph smith then you literally have never read the book of mormon, nor do you hold it up and support it as the word of God. Period. You literally have no room to dispute this. And your probably a p3do 🙏
I've been going to stay out of this talk about polygamy. I'm finding that having been taught what was being said by my family , the products of polygamy don't go along with the things that are being taught now. Several times back, my grandfather was married to three women who each had their own home. I was taught that the men who became polygamist were called to do so. The reason behind the polygamy was that there were so many more women than men they did not have a chance for marriage. Women were not allowed to own property unless their husbands died. This was the most kind way of caring for these women who would not have any way of taking care of their own needs. This was being taught to me when I was a child, I'm 75 years old now. If people would read some of their family history, they might have the same information as I have been taught. This was a very hard calling for both men and women. I'm thankful that the stories from the children of polygamy in my family have all been very loving and full of thankfulness.
Just currently listening to the part about President Brigham Young and his interesting doctrine. I've never f8gured out why the Old Testament and Book Prophets never contradicted each other and needed to revise or denounce the eords of their predecessors? Why do we do it? Why can't we just be consistent from start to finish. Since when did the nephites experience a faith crisis because a church policy or doctrine was changed from one Nephite Prophet to the next.
It is consistent if you understand the history and doctrine. Too many members don't because they are "lazy learners and lax disciples" President Nelson spoke of. If anything was ever inconsistent, it was man's failure to remain in the Covenant, including the Patriarchal Order.
You’re not much of a “Watcher on the Tower” meant to warn people of impending attack. You invited the “Attacker” in, made them feel right at home, and gave them a voice and a platform. Could not be more disappointed in you!
He was warned about her but instead of doing more research into why those warnings were forthcoming, what does he do? Just doubles down and does a video with her.
@@jaredshipp9207you have no idea what he did or didn’t do. You can’t just disagree with Scott. You have to make a major scene about it. Contention much?
@@traciwavra7346 If he had actually done his research on her and all the garbage she's put out, on this issue as well as as others, I doubt he'd go as far as doing a video with her. People can believe whatever they want. But if they're going to teach it publicly, including via a TH-cam channel, they're responsible for it. And sorry but I don't take kindly to people who claim to be believing members while calling several prophets and apostles adulterers, as well as calling every prophet and apostle from Brigham up to President Nelson a liar or ignorant on this matter. That's what Michelle is doing. That's what Palmer is doing.
What web? She is bringing forth information that is showing polygamy was never taught or practiced by Joseph Smith nor his brother Hyrum. Polygamy was not from God.
@@carolmcmullin7579 it’s just so sad so many leave the church or straddle it pretend they are still in the good ship Zion all while pedaling this stuff - and good guys get sucked in and they follow those like her off the proverbial cliff
@@carolmcmullin7579She hasn't "brought forth" any information. There's nothing she's addressed that hasn't been gone over by people with far more knowledge of not only plural marriage but the gospel as a whole, for years. Maybe it's new to her and you but let's not pretend some weepy TH-camr has cracked the code on this issue. Michelle is a spiritually immature member who misrepresents herself as being concerned with historical facts and doctrine when she is really just driven by pure emotion and her inability to handle the topic. She puts on a big smile while she's telling other spiritually immature members what they want to hear - truly the blind leading the blind - until she gets backed into a corner. Then she turns on the tears. I give her a few years max before she either leaves the Church or is excommunicated.
If you believe that polygamy was instituted from God and by joseph smith then you literally have never read the book of mormon, nor do you hold it up and support it as the word of God. Period. You literally have no room to dispute this. And your probably a p3do 🙏
I'm sorry but this is sad. Its easy to cherry pick information to fit your platform. That would be the only reason one could believe Joseph Smith has nothing to do with polygamy. I say this with kindness, it would be good to do some more research before deciding what you know to be true.
If you believe that polygamy was instituted from God and by joseph smith then you literally have never read the book of mormon, nor do you hold it up and support it as the word of God. Period. You literally have no room to dispute this. And your probably a p3do 🙏
If you believe that polygamy was instituted from God and by joseph smith then you literally have never read the book of mormon, nor do you hold it up and support it as the word of God. Period. You literally have no room to dispute this. And your probably a p3do 🙏
At TIMES we,each of us Stumble with PRIDE of our Intelligence 💔 we just our SO SMART 👀 Slippery.. to SMART for our own GOOD 💥💥💥ALL are CHALLENGE UNIQUELY Needed communication with LISTENING with KINDNESS and RESPECT
Studying the scriptures with Michelle Stone is like working with a third grader to study algebra. What infinitesimal amount of respect I still had for Palmer, or opinion of his gospel knowledge, just went out the window.
This right here is what’s wrong in our world right now. People have to get nasty. If you disagree with what is being said, simply say it. I disagree with you. Scott Palmer is very wise and spiritual.
How to tell us you are a polygamist without saying the actual words. Your ranting on every thread with anyone who has a different view point gets really old. Maybe accept that others have come to a different conclusion thru much study and prayer. Telling everyone how stupid they are or that you've lost respect.... super old.
@@traciwavra7346I used to think so, much like I used to think the same about Conner Boyack. More and more, as of late, my view of them has changed. Neither understands Gospel doctrine or Church history as much as they pretend to.
@@ImogeneBettr I'm not a polygamist or have any desire to be. I simply understand scripture, know Church history, and can emotionally handle the issue. I don't rewrite history or toss scripture because I don't like or understand it.
In my mind we are not holding on to this tradition, “polygamy”. So we ARE deserving of God’s protection. We are deserving of His abundant blessings when we keep our keep our covenants , striving to keep commandments and use repentance. The topic of polygamy is very confusing to me as I’ve heard many points of view. I’m choosing not to worry about it. I know one day all will be revealed and I will understand. We are not under condemnation as a church or as individuals if we aren’t practicing polygamy. I heard language Like this, using those words towards the very end and I’m pushing back against that. If there are are groups of people who want polygamy again, those numbers are few. Excellent discussion.
Sorry, I disagree with Michelle Stone. Even the Bible says God gave Saul's wives to David. And the Mosaic law had a man practice polygamy if his brother's wife died, he would take his brother's wife to care for her. Jesus confirms polygamists would be in Heaven in Matthew 8:11. Lastly, it's pretty obvious that Joseph and Hyrum practiced polygamy but weren't public because they had to walk a razor 's edge otherwise the Saints would "fly to pieces like glass" at the official teaching of polygamy like Sister Stone demonstrates here. Joseph Smith, January 1844: "I have tried for a number of years to get the minds of the saints prepared to receive the things of God, but we frequently see some of them, after suffering all they have for the work of God will fly to pieces like glass, as soon as anything comes that is contrary to their traditions; they cannot stand the fire at all"
If you read the JST till see where they KJV was changed and there's. Check out what had been presented on the TH-cam Still Mormon podcast, but you lost likely won't. Check out all of Josephs statements on the subjects and not there if Joseph's history that he changed by Brigham and his friends. I think that there was a evil spirit of poligamy bright into the church early and Joseph daughter it till the day he died. Joseph was NOT A LIAR like the church says ! I do not say "leave the church!". I say clean up our teachings to go along with the proof of true church history and Scripture not try to make excuses for Brigham's false teachings. Which most were dropped by the church after he died.
I do agree with you. You cannot just pick and choose what scriptures you want yo agree with. Jacob took numerous wives and it was ordained by God. This WAS ok in the sight of the Lord at that time. No one is arguing that in this day we should have more than 1 wife but that period in church history was so tough. Many would have perished and the church needed to be built up. I will never believe that the prophets Joseph or Brigham made that big of mistake.
@@franciegwin I've done my research and my conclusions aren't based on emotion, they're based on what we have available as evidence. We have at least 20 examples of evidence of Joseph being sealed to other women. Some of these are even available in the Joseph Smith Papers so you can read the original documents. Fanny Alger was a plural wife from the 1830s. That was way before the martyrdom and the Quorum of the 12 taking over leadership in 1844 and beyond. The idea that Brigham and other church leaders came up with polygamy and then rewrote church history to better fit their adulterous desires is fiction and it's a talking point designed by the then RLDS church to try to justify their claims to authority over the Church since they rejected the leadership of the Q12. People can't admit polygamy happened with Joseph because it hurts their feelings and they want Brigham Young as a scape goat, but it doesn't change reality. These members should re-evaluate their stance or find their way into the Community of Christ who will happily agree with their conclusions.
@@franciegwinChurch leadership? You mean other prophets and apostles you criticize while feigning belief in Joseph? Both plural marriage and the Priesthood restriction, like the temple endowment, began with Joseph and were expanded on by Brigham. Joseph was the architect, Brigham the builder, and both were prophets. You and others don't get to revise history and throw out scripture because you're spiritually immature and don't understand these things.
You have had a lot of opinions on the show that I disagreed with over the years and I just shrugged and said “hmm he thinks differently than me on some items”. I was pulled in years ago wile extremely sick and you were way into second coming and Israel stuff (like 2020). Helped me a lot when I was bedridden. Now you finally say one thing that others finally disagree with and they scatter. So sad. And you know what, if you changed your mind I would still watch you. I watch Cwic Media even though he’s opposite you on this, also Don Bradley on ward radio. I would accept in a heartbeat if God instilled on my heart that Polygamy is his plan. I have had real spiritual witnesses to the contrary, just as strong as the witness I received of Joseph. If there was ever a video you made that I thought “hmm this isn’t really for me” (often the ones with the cardio miracle guy) I just skip that video. No big deal. Cancel culture is seeping into the church now too apparently. The reason I continue watching yours for years is your authenticity and willingness to be real about stuff. Instead of following blindly you question and think deep and it is so much more real to me. I worry much of the church is quickly becoming parasitical and want the church to “command them in all things they should do”.
It’s all part of woke-ism (in my opinion). Thou shalt have no thoughts different from me. It’s actually pathetic and dangerous. If people are just waiting to be spoon fed, it’s gonna be a long wait. That, after all, is called Satans plan!
Brother Palmer, I think you need to drop this subject . It's upsetting people and your losing followers. Something's we will not know or understand until the Savior teaches us. Please go back to the come follow me lessons. This proves nothing with so many people differences. It's not important. Please stop.
@Leah.Clements I couldn't agree more. Im thinking of just going elsewhere also. This is why there were so many talks during conference to just follow the basics. When you go off on tangents like this it opens up a whole can of worms.
How do you know it’s not important? It may be very important. Just agree to disagree and move on. I am confident in what I hear, study and pray about for answers. Did people unsubscribe over the jab? I agreed with Palmers, I felt the exact same way. The Palmers let me know that I wasn’t the only one living in the Wasatch Front being shunned over not getting the jab. That is very important. I felt so bad. I felt like I didn’t belong. I go to church by myself. It’s not easy. It made me feel very included that “I wasn’t the only one”.
God will absolutely teach us NOW of these things and He is!!!! So many people are awakening to the truth of one man and one woman. Those of us who have been awakened and taught truth cannot go back to the watered down teachings of the Come Follow Me lessons.
@leannerickords7380 see the can of worms this creates. Theres been groups all throughout the history of the church that just wanted to dive into things like this. Bottom line is the church advises to teach the basics.
So all men can be sealed for time and all eternity now to a second woman if their fist wife dies? Couples who are divorced a womom can not be released from the eternal sealing until she choses to be remarried in the temple for eternity, then she has to have permission to do so, yet men can remarry in the temple and still are sealed to the divorced wife until shes released. They are told that is some kind of safety net in case they don’t get married again… then the sealing needed to enter into the highest degree of glory is intact. The Lord will work it out in the here after, no one will be required to be married to someone the choose not to be. When your spouse/ex-spouse calls your name you can just not come forth. Men are gaining more wives for eternity through the first is dead now you can be sealed again. Another way to continue the polygamy practice for men.
Get ready for the absolute hate storm from polygamists from within the LDS Church (you'd be surprised how many will fight to the death on being able to practice it), and those that already are practicing it on the outside. I love that you are defending Joseph and believe he was innocent of this evil, Brother Palmer. It is refreshing to have your brain and soul involved in this battle. Mormon 8 tells us that Brother Joseph had to have an eye single to God to bring about the BofM. NOWHERE in scripture - other than sec. 132 - does God condone the abomination of polygamy. It was fabricated after Joseph died and delivered to the Saints in 1852 to cover the sins of leaders practicing whoredoms. Let the cards fall where they may. It doesn't make someone an apostate to simply seek the TRUTH.
@ImogeneBettr I've never practiced polygamy, nor do I condone it. But to say that it wasn't revealed by Joseph Smith and possibly practiced is just putting our heads in the sand. The revelation was received July 12, 1843 and Hyrum read it to the High Council on August 12, 1843. This info comes from David Fullmer, who was present, and is from The Historical Record 6:227. documentation that section 132 was read into the minutes by Hyrum Smith. It may not have been put into the D&C until later, but it was voted on by the high council.
You're being disingenuous. Actually being able to understand the doctrine and know the history doesn't mean people are polygamists a have any desire for it. Finding something hard to understand or accept isn't an excuse to rewrite history or throw out doctrine, which is what the spiritually immature revisionists do.
@@ImogeneBettr You are so wrong! Just because someone is defending the early prophets, does not mean they desire to practice polygamy today . Brigham young, John Taylor Wilford Woodruff Lorenzo Snow all prophets and have made statements regarding polygamy. It is not our place to call them liars either. There is just parts of history we do not know and I am not willing to take it upon myself to make that call.
Thats kind of how I'm starting to feel. I just unsubscribed from Connor Boyack's channel over this same thing. What difference does it make if Joseph Smith practiced polygamy or not? Whitewashing it won't hide it. It also opens a huge can of worms as far as the succession of four of our prophet's and the validity of the church.
@wheels636 I've grown tired of both Boyack and Palmer. Where once they were pretty solid, more and more it's not the case anymore. Granted, as Joseph said, "It doesn't prove a man is not a good man because he errs in doctrine," but boy have both of them been erring in doctrine lately.
Why do you all keep saying that Joseph is “under fire” because of polygamy? Only the ex mos are saying that. Every single ex mo I work with bring this up. 100%. I hear many many faithful people who say Joseph had many wives and it doesn’t bother them. For me, if he did or didn’t, it doesn’t bother me. Please stop boxing people in like this. Will you have Brian hales on and give him equal time? How about Steve Harper? You castigate and condemn so many so easily as speaking evil against Joseph on a topic that is moot/debatable based solely upon the history. The imperfect history. Show one side and condemn any who disagree? Cmon, Scott. Not good.
Sick of you bashing Brigham young ,John Taylor, Lorenzo Snow, Joseph F Smith all so you can feel good about your idea of what happened. Nothing like creating a God in your own image . Lost my respect for you .
If we don’t still believe in polygamy as an eternal doctrine why are President Nelson AND President Oaks sealed to two woman and the enumerable number of men who have also been sealed to more than one wife? This eternal doctrine is definitely an underlying current even if we don’t openly teach it. And this doctrine is hurtful to a lot of women who DO NOT want to live polygamy in the eternities.
Well they may not want to practice it in the hereafter but if they get sealed to someone who was already sealed to someone who perhaps has passed on that’s what they agree to do in my opinion. The church saints they no longer practice but do not denounce it in the hereafter so I’m not sure how she is wrong.
@@leannerickords7380 sealed to the family of God. It’s not polygamy if there is only one companion living. Are you aware that a deceased woman can be sealed to more than one man?
"There are many willing to teach the philosophies of men mingled with scripture."
About 7 years ago I had a confirmation and felt strongly that marriage was between one man and one woman … and that’s the way it will be in the eternities.
It won’t. It won’t be anyway shape or form in the manner you think of it.
Very powerful, thank you Michelle and thank you Brother and Sister Palmer!! We just need to have eyes to see and ears to hear and we can know the truth!! 💛
Absolutely fabulous episode 🙏 thank you so much. Felt the holy ghost, felt spiritually enriched with soundness, truth, and simplicity ❤ I love you guys, keep up the good work! Remember that when you throw a stone into a pack of dogs, the dogs that bark the loudest are the ones that were hit 🙏 May God bless you in all things righteous and holy 🙏❤
This was a great conversation! Thank you Scott and Sue for having Michelle on!
Agreed about it not being taught recently. Bednar gave a talk a year or so ago where he said “this is how you can tell if it’s doctrine” and one thing was “it is taught recently and frequently”.
Good point
I'm so glad you two are not calling Joseph, hyrum, Emma, and Lucy liars like the church does inadvertently! They were not liars!!!!!!!!! None of them ever taught or supported more than one wife... Especially not anything sexual.
No, they are calling Brigham and many other prophets and apostles adulterers and apostates. Not to mention calling every prophet and apostle right up to the present liars or ignorant fools. That's exactly what one does when they embrace this false revisionist history on plural marriage.
Connor Boyack has solid support of your history as well.
Such a great video! Thank you so much for not being afraid to discuss this topic.
Thank you, Bro Palmer for your honesty and integrity. I am tired of members trying to convince me that the church always taught that Joseph was a polygamist. This is simply not true! I'm 63 and grew up as a generational member, and polygamy always was taught that it started with Brigham Young. This change of teaching only started with the Gospel Topic Essays and has been falsley asserted that it has always been taught that it started with Joseph. Our young people have no idea but us as the older generation know and should have the integrity to speak out when something is misrepresented. I have been ridiculed and scorned and told i am not a good member for not keeping my mouth shut when i know in my heart otherwise!
@@dl1130 It did begin with Joseph. But let's pretend for a moment it didn't. Notice how the automatic conclusion of you, Palmer, and others is that Brigham must have been wrong. As if he wasn't a prophet. You're saying he was so out of touch with the Lord, so clueless, and basically so rotten that he taught and practiced adultery for decades. And yet he somehow held onto the keys? This shows plural marriage itself is really the issue for the revisionists. It's got nothing to do with what Joseph did or did not do. That's just their way of feigning loyalty to the Restoration while crapping on every other prophet and apostle from Brigham to President Nelson.
Love this! Thank you so much for sharing. You guys are always seeking truth and sharing it.
@@jenvinson3989 truth what truth did they share?
Thank you, thank you, thank you, for this wonderful video! I have been a lifelong member of the church and in those 60+ years there have been two issues that I have not been able to defend...the Priesthood restriction and polygamy. If a nonmember asked me questions about either of those I wanted to hide because I have never received a satisfactory answer. This interview with Michelle has opened my eyes a little more. I do not have to accept plural marriage as gospel doctrine. I never believed it was but could not defend my opinion. After this, I feel better about being a polygamy denier.
Glad this conversation could be had. I haven't decided where I stand on this, but I'm thankful to have multiple perspectives being shared about this.
Here's a novel idea: Stick with the Church and what IT says on the issue instead of podcasters
@@jaredshipp9207 Here's a novel idea, when truth resonates with people, don't claim moral superiority and gaslight them into believing they're on the road to apostasy. Get a life.
@@ImogeneBettr Unless it's not truth that is resonating with them at all. And especially when their inability to discern between truth and error can lead others out of the Church. Many of those embracing this revisionist history on plural marriage have already left the Church. How many more will so the same in the next 5 years?
God Rules, with imperfect men. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is true.
I've listened to Michael before, and I'm not even talking about her stance on polygamy and I don't even care what side you're on. But when I listen to her, I feel yucky!
I still love you two and always will! Please listen to her other podcasts. At least she's not as dangerous as Julie Hanks.
If you believe that polygamy was instituted from God and by joseph smith then you literally have never read the book of mormon, nor do you hold it up and support it as the word of God. Period. You literally have no room to dispute this. And your probably a p3do 🙏
This is pure truth and light❤
The last thing Michelle Stone is, is truth and light. And the ones who think she is are usually on their way out of the Church (if they haven't already left).
Brother Palmer,
Thank you for having Michelle on your show.
I am just finishing a paper that systematically refutes the legitimacy and morality of polygamy. Would you care to read it?
@@Chet-hv4po Next stop, leaving the Church?
Jared,
Apparently your testimony is built on a foundation that is more fragile than mine.
You’re afraid of the wrong thing.
Faith is a hope based on things which are true. You can’t have faith based on an untruth-only a weak and fragile belief.
Keep searching-maybe you’ll get it.
I am 67 years old and this has caused me to reconsider all that I have believed about polygamy. This makes sense to my soul. I got out McConkies Mormon Doctrine and under Plural Marriage he states, "the Lord revealed the principle of plural marriage to the prophet. Later the prophet and leading brethren were commanded to enter into the practice, which they all did in all virtue and purity of heart.....
The holy practice will commence again after the second coming of the son of man and the ushering in of the millennium. "
What do you think about that?
(Love your insights!!)❤️
I rejected her when I heard her anti-temple teachings.
She's not anti-temple. She's pro truth.
Provide a counter that justifies the blood oaths and other masonic creepiness that Brigham introduced.
It cannot be attributed to Joseph.
@@charlottequist8327 Which Palmer is not even aware of. One of his biggest problems is he's just lazy. Instead of actually doing his homework for his TH-cam channel, it's much easier for him to just list his past callings for the hundredth time.
If you believe that polygamy was instituted from God and by joseph smith then you literally have never read the book of mormon, nor do you hold it up and support it as the word of God. Period. You literally have no room to dispute this. And your probably a p3do 🙏
I've been going to stay out of this talk about polygamy. I'm finding that having been taught what was being said by my family , the products of polygamy don't go along with the things that are being taught now. Several times back, my grandfather was married to three women who each had their own home. I was taught that the men who became polygamist were called to do so. The reason behind the polygamy was that there were so many more women than men they did not have a chance for marriage. Women were not allowed to own property unless their husbands died. This was the most kind way of caring for these women who would not have any way of taking care of their own needs. This was being taught to me when I was a child, I'm 75 years old now. If people would read some of their family history, they might have the same information as I have been taught. This was a very hard calling for both men and women. I'm thankful that the stories from the children of polygamy in my family have all been very loving and full of thankfulness.
Just currently listening to the part about President Brigham Young and his interesting doctrine. I've never f8gured out why the Old Testament and Book Prophets never contradicted each other and needed to revise or denounce the eords of their predecessors?
Why do we do it?
Why can't we just be consistent from start to finish.
Since when did the nephites experience a faith crisis because a church policy or doctrine was changed from one Nephite Prophet to the next.
It is consistent if you understand the history and doctrine. Too many members don't because they are "lazy learners and lax disciples" President Nelson spoke of. If anything was ever inconsistent, it was man's failure to remain in the Covenant, including the Patriarchal Order.
You’re not much of a “Watcher on the Tower” meant to warn people of impending attack. You invited the “Attacker” in, made them feel right at home, and gave them a voice and a platform.
Could not be more disappointed in you!
He was warned about her but instead of doing more research into why those warnings were forthcoming, what does he do? Just doubles down and does a video with her.
@@jaredshipp9207you have no idea what he did or didn’t do. You can’t just disagree with Scott. You have to make a major scene about it. Contention much?
@@traciwavra7346 If he had actually done his research on her and all the garbage she's put out, on this issue as well as as others, I doubt he'd go as far as doing a video with her. People can believe whatever they want. But if they're going to teach it publicly, including via a TH-cam channel, they're responsible for it. And sorry but I don't take kindly to people who claim to be believing members while calling several prophets and apostles adulterers, as well as calling every prophet and apostle from Brigham up to President Nelson a liar or ignorant on this matter. That's what Michelle is doing. That's what Palmer is doing.
Don’t get caught up into her web
What web? She is bringing forth information that is showing polygamy was never taught or practiced by Joseph Smith nor his brother Hyrum. Polygamy was not from God.
He already has.
@@carolmcmullin7579 it’s just so sad so many leave the church or straddle it pretend they are still in the good ship Zion all while pedaling this stuff - and good guys get sucked in and they follow those like her off the proverbial cliff
@@carolmcmullin7579She hasn't "brought forth" any information. There's nothing she's addressed that hasn't been gone over by people with far more knowledge of not only plural marriage but the gospel as a whole, for years. Maybe it's new to her and you but let's not pretend some weepy TH-camr has cracked the code on this issue. Michelle is a spiritually immature member who misrepresents herself as being concerned with historical facts and doctrine when she is really just driven by pure emotion and her inability to handle the topic. She puts on a big smile while she's telling other spiritually immature members what they want to hear - truly the blind leading the blind - until she gets backed into a corner. Then she turns on the tears. I give her a few years max before she either leaves the Church or is excommunicated.
If you believe that polygamy was instituted from God and by joseph smith then you literally have never read the book of mormon, nor do you hold it up and support it as the word of God. Period. You literally have no room to dispute this. And your probably a p3do 🙏
I'm sorry but this is sad. Its easy to cherry pick information to fit your platform. That would be the only reason one could believe Joseph Smith has nothing to do with polygamy. I say this with kindness, it would be good to do some more research before deciding what you know to be true.
What makes you think he hasn't?
If you believe that polygamy was instituted from God and by joseph smith then you literally have never read the book of mormon, nor do you hold it up and support it as the word of God. Period. You literally have no room to dispute this. And your probably a p3do 🙏
I am so sad.
Why?
If you believe that polygamy was instituted from God and by joseph smith then you literally have never read the book of mormon, nor do you hold it up and support it as the word of God. Period. You literally have no room to dispute this. And your probably a p3do 🙏
At TIMES we,each of us Stumble with PRIDE of our Intelligence 💔 we just our SO SMART 👀 Slippery.. to SMART for our own GOOD 💥💥💥ALL are CHALLENGE UNIQUELY
Needed communication with LISTENING with KINDNESS and RESPECT
Studying the scriptures with Michelle Stone is like working with a third grader to study algebra. What infinitesimal amount of respect I still had for Palmer, or opinion of his gospel knowledge, just went out the window.
This right here is what’s wrong in our world right now. People have to get nasty. If you disagree with what is being said, simply say it.
I disagree with you.
Scott Palmer is very wise and spiritual.
How to tell us you are a polygamist without saying the actual words.
Your ranting on every thread with anyone who has a different view point gets really old.
Maybe accept that others have come to a different conclusion thru much study and prayer.
Telling everyone how stupid they are or that you've lost respect.... super old.
@@traciwavra7346I used to think so, much like I used to think the same about Conner Boyack. More and more, as of late, my view of them has changed. Neither understands Gospel doctrine or Church history as much as they pretend to.
@@ImogeneBettrI'm not a polygamist and have no desire for it. I'm simply not a scripturally illiterate rube who can't handle hard topics.
@@ImogeneBettr I'm not a polygamist or have any desire to be. I simply understand scripture, know Church history, and can emotionally handle the issue. I don't rewrite history or toss scripture because I don't like or understand it.
Oh wow 😢😮
In my mind we are not holding on to this tradition, “polygamy”. So we ARE deserving of God’s protection. We are deserving of His abundant blessings when we keep our keep our covenants , striving to keep commandments and use repentance. The topic of polygamy is very confusing to me as I’ve heard many points of view. I’m choosing not to worry about it. I know one day all will be revealed and I will understand. We are not under condemnation as a church or as individuals if we aren’t practicing polygamy. I heard language Like this, using those words towards the very end and I’m pushing back against that. If there are are groups of people who want polygamy again, those numbers are few. Excellent discussion.
You should worry about it.
@@dl1130 My Father tells me what I need to repent of and focus on. This isn’t it.
Sorry, I disagree with Michelle Stone. Even the Bible says God gave Saul's wives to David. And the Mosaic law had a man practice polygamy if his brother's wife died, he would take his brother's wife to care for her. Jesus confirms polygamists would be in Heaven in Matthew 8:11.
Lastly, it's pretty obvious that Joseph and Hyrum practiced polygamy but weren't public because they had to walk a razor 's edge otherwise the Saints would "fly to pieces like glass" at the official teaching of polygamy like Sister Stone demonstrates here.
Joseph Smith, January 1844: "I have tried for a number of years to get the minds of the saints prepared to receive the things of God, but we frequently see some of them, after suffering all they have for the work of God will fly to pieces like glass, as soon as anything comes that is contrary to their traditions; they cannot stand the fire at all"
If you read the JST till see where they KJV was changed and there's. Check out what had been presented on the TH-cam Still Mormon podcast, but you lost likely won't. Check out all of Josephs statements on the subjects and not there if Joseph's history that he changed by Brigham and his friends. I think that there was a evil spirit of poligamy bright into the church early and Joseph daughter it till the day he died. Joseph was NOT A LIAR like the church says ! I do not say "leave the church!". I say clean up our teachings to go along with the proof of true church history and Scripture not try to make excuses for Brigham's false teachings. Which most were dropped by the church after he died.
I do agree with you. You cannot just pick and choose what scriptures you want yo agree with. Jacob took numerous wives and it was ordained by God. This WAS ok in the sight of the Lord at that time. No one is arguing that in this day we should have more than 1 wife but that period in church history was so tough. Many would have perished and the church needed to be built up. I will never believe that the prophets Joseph or Brigham made that big of mistake.
No it is not obvious unless you just go by people's words from church leadership that have tried to blame false teachings in Joseph! Do your research!
@@franciegwin I've done my research and my conclusions aren't based on emotion, they're based on what we have available as evidence. We have at least 20 examples of evidence of Joseph being sealed to other women. Some of these are even available in the Joseph Smith Papers so you can read the original documents. Fanny Alger was a plural wife from the 1830s. That was way before the martyrdom and the Quorum of the 12 taking over leadership in 1844 and beyond.
The idea that Brigham and other church leaders came up with polygamy and then rewrote church history to better fit their adulterous desires is fiction and it's a talking point designed by the then RLDS church to try to justify their claims to authority over the Church since they rejected the leadership of the Q12.
People can't admit polygamy happened with Joseph because it hurts their feelings and they want Brigham Young as a scape goat, but it doesn't change reality. These members should re-evaluate their stance or find their way into the Community of Christ who will happily agree with their conclusions.
@@franciegwinChurch leadership? You mean other prophets and apostles you criticize while feigning belief in Joseph? Both plural marriage and the Priesthood restriction, like the temple endowment, began with Joseph and were expanded on by Brigham. Joseph was the architect, Brigham the builder, and both were prophets. You and others don't get to revise history and throw out scripture because you're spiritually immature and don't understand these things.
You have had a lot of opinions on the show that I disagreed with over the years and I just shrugged and said “hmm he thinks differently than me on some items”. I was pulled in years ago wile extremely sick and you were way into second coming and Israel stuff (like 2020). Helped me a lot when I was bedridden. Now you finally say one thing that others finally disagree with and they scatter. So sad. And you know what, if you changed your mind I would still watch you. I watch Cwic Media even though he’s opposite you on this, also Don Bradley on ward radio. I would accept in a heartbeat if God instilled on my heart that Polygamy is his plan. I have had real spiritual witnesses to the contrary, just as strong as the witness I received of Joseph. If there was ever a video you made that I thought “hmm this isn’t really for me” (often the ones with the cardio miracle guy) I just skip that video. No big deal. Cancel culture is seeping into the church now too apparently. The reason I continue watching yours for years is your authenticity and willingness to be real about stuff. Instead of following blindly you question and think deep and it is so much more real to me. I worry much of the church is quickly becoming parasitical and want the church to “command them in all things they should do”.
Great thoughts. Couldn't agree more.
It’s all part of woke-ism (in my opinion). Thou shalt have no thoughts different from me. It’s actually pathetic and dangerous. If people are just waiting to be spoon fed, it’s gonna be a long wait. That, after all, is called Satans plan!
Brother Palmer, I think you need to drop this subject . It's upsetting people and your losing followers. Something's we will not know or understand until the Savior teaches us. Please go back to the come follow me lessons. This proves nothing with so many people differences. It's not important. Please stop.
@Leah.Clements I couldn't agree more. Im thinking of just going elsewhere also. This is why there were so many talks during conference to just follow the basics. When you go off on tangents like this it opens up a whole can of worms.
How do you know it’s not important? It may be very important. Just agree to disagree and move on. I am confident in what I hear, study and pray about for answers. Did people unsubscribe over the jab? I agreed with Palmers, I felt the exact same way. The Palmers let me know that I wasn’t the only one living in the Wasatch Front being shunned over not getting the jab. That is very important. I felt so bad. I felt like I didn’t belong. I go to church by myself. It’s not easy. It made me feel very included that “I wasn’t the only one”.
God will absolutely teach us NOW of these things and He is!!!! So many people are awakening to the truth of one man and one woman. Those of us who have been awakened and taught truth cannot go back to the watered down teachings of the Come Follow Me lessons.
@leannerickords7380 see the can of worms this creates. Theres been groups all throughout the history of the church that just wanted to dive into things like this. Bottom line is the church advises to teach the basics.
Well don’t hold your breath. He’s going to double down on it, sadly- and has made it amply clear he doesn’t care if we unsubscribe.
Unsubbed.
So all men can be sealed for time and all eternity now to a second woman if their fist wife dies? Couples who are divorced a womom can not be released from the eternal sealing until she choses to be remarried in the temple for eternity, then she has to have permission to do so, yet men can remarry in the temple and still are sealed to the divorced wife until shes released. They are told that is some kind of safety net in case they don’t get married again… then the sealing needed to enter into the highest degree of glory is intact. The Lord will work it out in the here after, no one will be required to be married to someone the choose not to be. When your spouse/ex-spouse calls your name you can just not come forth.
Men are gaining more wives for eternity through the first is dead now you can be sealed again. Another way to continue the polygamy practice for men.
That's you Michelle, Br Palmer, and Suzanne!!!! I love you so so much!
Get ready for the absolute hate storm from polygamists from within the LDS Church (you'd be surprised how many will fight to the death on being able to practice it), and those that already are practicing it on the outside.
I love that you are defending Joseph and believe he was innocent of this evil, Brother Palmer. It is refreshing to have your brain and soul involved in this battle.
Mormon 8 tells us that Brother Joseph had to have an eye single to God to bring about the BofM.
NOWHERE in scripture - other than sec. 132 - does God condone the abomination of polygamy.
It was fabricated after Joseph died and delivered to the Saints in 1852 to cover the sins of leaders practicing whoredoms.
Let the cards fall where they may.
It doesn't make someone an apostate to simply seek the TRUTH.
@ImogeneBettr I've never practiced polygamy, nor do I condone it. But to say that it wasn't revealed by Joseph Smith and possibly practiced is just putting our heads in the sand. The revelation was received July 12, 1843 and Hyrum read it to the High Council on August 12, 1843.
This info comes from David Fullmer, who was present, and is from The Historical Record 6:227.
documentation that section 132 was read into the minutes by Hyrum Smith. It may not have been put into the D&C until later, but it was voted on by the high council.
You're being disingenuous. Actually being able to understand the doctrine and know the history doesn't mean people are polygamists a have any desire for it. Finding something hard to understand or accept isn't an excuse to rewrite history or throw out doctrine, which is what the spiritually immature revisionists do.
@@jaredshipp9207 Hah. The only way to understand this "doctrine" is to twist scripture. Period. Thus, it must be in your heart to see it this way.
@@ImogeneBettr So every prophet and apostle from the start of the Restoration up to the present is twisting scripture?
@@ImogeneBettr
You are so wrong! Just because someone is defending the early prophets, does not mean they desire to practice polygamy today . Brigham young, John Taylor Wilford Woodruff Lorenzo Snow all prophets and have made statements regarding polygamy. It is not our place to call them liars either. There is just parts of history we do not know and I am not willing to take it upon myself to make that call.
Unsubscribed.
Good!
Thats kind of how I'm starting to feel. I just unsubscribed from Connor Boyack's channel over this same thing.
What difference does it make if Joseph Smith practiced polygamy or not?
Whitewashing it won't hide it. It also opens a huge can of worms as far as the succession of four of our prophet's and the validity of the church.
Its a lie being propagated by the church which was never true. So you don't think that is important!!!!!!!
@wheels636 I've grown tired of both Boyack and Palmer. Where once they were pretty solid, more and more it's not the case anymore. Granted, as Joseph said, "It doesn't prove a man is not a good man because he errs in doctrine," but boy have both of them been erring in doctrine lately.
Brian Hales and KWS welcome you.
Why do you all keep saying that Joseph is “under fire” because of polygamy? Only the ex mos are saying that. Every single ex mo I work with bring this up. 100%. I hear many many faithful people who say Joseph had many wives and it doesn’t bother them. For me, if he did or didn’t, it doesn’t bother me. Please stop boxing people in like this. Will you have Brian hales on and give him equal time? How about Steve Harper? You castigate and condemn so many so easily as speaking evil against Joseph on a topic that is moot/debatable based solely upon the history. The imperfect history.
Show one side and condemn any who disagree? Cmon, Scott. Not good.
Sick of you bashing Brigham young ,John Taylor, Lorenzo Snow, Joseph F Smith all so you can feel good about your idea of what happened. Nothing like creating a God in your own image . Lost my respect for you .
Sue, you look 10 years younger. What is your secret? I think I know. Haha
She has a man that doesn't believe in the doctrine of polygamy! That'll take 10 years off any woman's life...if not 50, LOL.
If we don’t still believe in polygamy as an eternal doctrine why are President Nelson AND President Oaks sealed to two woman and the enumerable number of men who have also been sealed to more than one wife?
This eternal doctrine is definitely an underlying current even if we don’t openly teach it. And this doctrine is hurtful to a lot of women who DO NOT want to live polygamy in the eternities.
@@leannerickords7380 the church website states we do not practice polygamy any longer. So I don’t think you are right on that one.
@@watcherpalmerlds so please explain President Nelson and President Oaks. What do you call being sealed to more than one wife?
Well they may not want to practice it in the hereafter but if they get sealed to someone who was already sealed to someone who perhaps has passed on that’s what they agree to do in my opinion. The church saints they no longer practice but do not denounce it in the hereafter so I’m not sure how she is wrong.
Nobody's going to make you live it that goes against free agency.
@@leannerickords7380 sealed to the family of God. It’s not polygamy if there is only one companion living. Are you aware that a deceased woman can be sealed to more than one man?
Unsubscribed
Watchout! The Karens are speaking out in the comments... Probably Kamala supporters. lol
Wow this is so disrespectful.
You just made me lol 😂
@@Topher2024 actually just those who have watched our loved ones follow Michelle and others into ex mo land 🤪😭😭definitely NOT kamala fans
@@trishie818 so you're angry that people used their God given agency to look outside the box? Wild!
@@Topher2024 just sad
😅