This is totally hitting the nail on the head. The problem is as long as the Whack PAC's terrible leadership is there i don't see them coming to their senses. Gloria N (MWC Commish) was all about the Merger, but OSU WSU leadership thought their programs were "above" the MWC, and now here we are. I'd love to see reconciliation, but I don't see it.
Drawing the comparison between the PACifist-12(ish)/Mountain West drama with the way Jerruh has run the Dallas Cowboys over the past couple of decades is the perfect analogy to describe the train wreck that we're seeing from two conferences who will be light years behind the Sun Belt, let along the 'Merican. All they had to do was merge Oregon State and Washington State with the Mountain West and be done with it. As for New Mexico State, part of the reason that you won't see them in the MWC is because there is massive hatred between New Mexico State and the University of New Mexico in recent years. And I get the impression that a lot of these FCS powers (the Montanas, the Dakotas, etc.) would rather stay in FCS than join either one of these train wrecks.
I'm not much of a college football watcher these days. However, I've seen my share of FCS games, and it's not bad at all. In particular, the Big Sky and Midwest teams are better off where they're at rather than chasing FBS waterfalls like every other small to medium program that has tried.
You know what they should do? Have a separate confederation within the NCAA. College Football Confederation College Basketball Confederation College Hockey Confederarion College Athletic Confederation (baseball, softball, soccer, lacrosse, etc.) College Olympic Confederation (track, swimming, fencing, etc.) Regulate conferences dedicated to each confederation, avoids the need to have Stanford play NC State so many times a year and calling it an in-conference game.
I agree its the better call. The issue with FCS recruitment is of course that there's a strict time limit and the transition periods will kill any potential non FBS team from getting in at this moment
I watched that Arizona State/Texas State game on a Southwest Airlines flight and still think about it. I was thinking more along the lines of that New Mexico State at Jacksonville State contest on a Wednesday in October. Although, I admit, I still watched it.
They should have merged into one conference, but there is a reason the PAC 12 died. The two products they are pitching to networks are not going to work. If I am Gloria Navarez I get on the phone with the AAC and merge with them. Thats three different times zones and enough schools to schedule games without breaking the bank for traveling.
In my view, it would have been a lot easier for Washington State & Oregon State to simply join the MW & let the Pac 12 die. Instead both the Pac 12 & MW are competing head to head for the same schools, media markets & territory to the detriment of both long term. It reminds me a lot of how in the early to mid 2010's, the USL & the NASL were involved in a very ugly battle over who had control over lower league American soccer & who was better positioned to compete with MLS. Ultimately thanks to the people running the NASL foolishly wanting to compete with MLS (even though they absolutely didn't have the financial means to do so) & getting into a costly feud with US Soccer over sanctioning, it was the USL who came out on top though some harm was done to the growth of lower division soccer. It wasn't until recently that the USL has found its footing & been able to have sustained growth to the point in which they can now challenge MLS for being the top league in American soccer. I hope that the Pac 12 & MW can collaborate with each other for the benefit of college athletics in the West because if they don't, it will end in a situation similar to what happened with the USL/NASL where one conference doesn't exist anymore & the other will be buried in irrelevancy that they themselves created.
North Dakota State, South Dakota State, Montana, Montana State and Tarleton State are top winning FCS teams right now. The first four and Sacramento State have beaten FBS opponents. Montana, NDSU, SDSU and Sacramento State have beaten P5 teams in recent years. Those 6 to MWC would make MWC stronger than the PAC and better than CUSA. I see the MWC be more successful in a rebuilt conference than the PAC right now. MWC sounds like they have a new tv deal and the PAC still have not. The MWC will have the last laugh on the PAC. You have to look at the PAC 2 who broke the agreement up since Oregon State and Washington State think they are too good for several MWC schools.
While I would like to see it, the Dakota and Montana schools aren't likely to move up because their athletic departments have built an economic model that requires winning. That is how they keep attendance strong and bringing in sponsorship revenue. Simply put, is easier to sell winning FCS program in those markets than a losing FBS program. It is also cheaper operate.
Hopefully this is the kick in the pants they need to actually merge. Feels like hopium to even get a merger, but I do think if it happens, it will give a lot of impetus for some of the departed schools to return (seems to me like it would be Cal and Stanford if anything, the big football school have no chance of returning imo).
Teams will eventually join after others commit. Add Texas State, then UTSA or Texas El Paso to lock up recruiting opportunities in Texas. Continue going after Tulane and Memphis, eventually add UNLV
as a UNLV fan...and after watching your content......I agree in a sense that the MW and the PAC would be better off in the long run. :Putting aside your comentary about each of the conference commissioners ONLY looking out for themselves and their own jobs (which i kinda agree with you about ) the main gripe was money distribution from the playoffs each conference and each school made. EXAMPLE: Some felt if my team made the playoffs, and we're mainly talking about football and basketball here, my particular school should get the majority of the money since my school pareticipated in the playoffs and the others didn't. Why should i give some of my money to the so called "bottom feeders" of the conference. so the 2 points of this are.....if the monies recieved are shared equally among the members the ENTIRE conference benifits and the more teams who get into these playoffs the bigger the amount of money there is to share equally. The 2nd point is if my school wins ...we should get the money since my university spent the money in the athletic programs to make their teams qualify for the playoffs. I UNDERSTAND BOTH POINTS...THERE IS A VALID ARGUEMENT FOR BOTH SIDES. So the only solution, to me, is to negotiate a number that would be fair to everyone involved and we are talking about MILLIONS OF DOLLARS HERE. I tried to make an educated guess but it's very hard. If a schools teams makes it all the way to the NCAA championship football game it can earn if my figures are close to $21 million dollars and thats for 1 school making the college championship....havent even touched if multiple schools from a conf. make the football playoffs. basketball is different...the site i looked at said a school can earn up to 5 shares with ea share being close to $380k per round of the tourney. multiple schools say 5 miultiplies that figure by 5...and as they advance ea school gets that $380k for ea game played. but we're still talking allot of money here. so there has to be a formula to give the participants of NCAA playoffs a little more than their conference members as an incentive so to speak. i would suggest the schools who participate in these playoffs get like 25% of the monies generated and the rest split evenly among the conf members. well, thats my take. I'm sure i'm gonna get allot of negative responses...but instead of being critical...u give me a better solution.
A similar scenario regarding bowl payouts is what lead to the Mountain West forming in the first place all those years ago. There is certainly a case to be made for both performance based incentives and ones based on TV ratings based. Having a base annual payout for each conference member and they splitting everything else based on various other factors isn't a bad idea. I believe the issue here is that the big schools that underperform with larger resources tend to dislike this method because they end up with less money. Small schools in the same conference and then better able to close the financial gap. This is why schools like UCLA will demand higher payouts from the Pac--12 that aren't tied to anything other than TV market size.
Preach Brother! Fox and ESPN know that these schools achieve their maximum value when they are united as the only G5 conference wholly within "The West." It's the moderately priced vehicle for national advertisers. If Fox had the whole package to augment their Big Ten Western bloc, they would own The West like The SEC owns The South. If ESPN could snag both groups together it would enable them to be competitive with Fox for ad dollars out West.
Mountain west has done a great job. Once Gloria could see what the PAC Who was trying to do, she put the screws to the PAC financially. The Leadership in the PAC is to blame for not getting a merger done. So glad both PAC schools have been beat by MW schools this season. Hope they lose any forthcoming lawsuit on poaching fees, too.
It just boggles the mind. Do the saz it out loud test....if it sounds stupid/sounds amazing, it probably is MW "Hmmm, we're a decent little conference, $5mil a year per school isn't much though." Pac2 "Everyone is gone. But, we still think we can get $15mil a year per school, and academics still matter, even though everyone is gone"' MW "Hey, Pac2 - What say the MW dissolves, all 12 schools come to the Pac, we can probably leverage Pac branding in what is essentially adding relatively solid OSU and WSU to effectively a decent MW, and probably get $10mil a year per school. Also, we should get on Sacramento (drag UC Davis with them) for the media market to effectively guarantee at least $10mil. Also, lets drag in Gonzaga and St Mary's (GCU too, but prefereably another after that for even numbers, not sure who though) and have a gangbusters basketball conference. 16 school football conference, 18 school basketball conference, the only game in town for West Coast only sports. Pac2 "No. I'd rather shoot us all in the feet"
Only way the PAC-12 could swallow their pride and merge would be if Apple pressures them to do so. If they do go for it, I hope the branding becomes the Pac-West.
Since Air Force is a service academy I thought for sure they might take this moment to jump to the AAC to join Army and Navy. There could be extra rules and procedures involved with changing conferences with service academies but I don't know for sure.
@ I recall reading somewhere that a service academy changing conferences requires Congressional approval. Not that Congress would normally make a big deal of this.
Well i think what kicked this off was the Mountain West wanted to absorb the Pac 12 and the two schools were not for that hence why they broke off the scheduling agreement. Now if i were to compare brand names i would say the Pac is the better brand but what do i know. So i think they should have merged as this would make them into a basketball super conference and probably the best non power conference. Now you did ask why New Mexico State has been invited and their is a partial reason and that is for at least the Mountain West New Mexico has an agreement that prevents New Mexico State from joining and that is probably why the Pac has not done it either. Now the move i would do is this merge the conferences, then see if i could get New Mexico to budge on the issue and if i could invite state, then i would see if any Texas schools like UTSA, Texas State, and Sam Houston are intrested, At the same time i would invite Idaho (former pac member) and both the Montana schools (also one is a former pac member) if they accept then i would try and go get the 4 Dakota schools (while the state schools are better the others are also very good and it eases travel). If that and the Texas schools go through that means i would have central time games. Now since my conference would be over 20 teams i would have to set it up with some divisions and make it to where they have like a playoff for who is the champion. Now there are many ifs and issues but i would at least try it and i would keep the name pac.
The Mountain West voted to end the scheduling agreement. Fresno, Boise, SDSU & CSU wanted it to continue. That is why after the conference voted not to extend the agreement, they each reached out to the Pac-12 about joining the conference.
The fact of the matter is that a merger between the Pac/Mountain West is a pipedream now and probably always has been. It sounds like a nice idea until you remember two facts. First, the bottom half of the Mountain West is not appealing and drags down the better programs. No one will respect a Pac-12/MWC merger when half the conference basically brings nothing to the table. Second, the Mountain West has only negotiated in bad faith with the Pac-12. They charged money for a scheduling agreement and shafted WSU/OSU with crappy home schedules against the lesser Mountain West schools. To reup the scheduling agreements, the Mountain West demanded significantly more money out of the Pac-12 for the privilege. I also disagree with the narrative that the Pac-12 is equally screwed as the Mountain West. The Pac-12 will never be what it once was but its fate is far from sealed. The Pac has survived this long and may have an even brighter future once it scrounges up more money to swipe Tulane and Memphis. They can also wait for more realignment to help it out, like when the ACC collapses and if Utah decides to leave the Big 12. This is significantly better than what awaits the Mountain West, which is basically crippled at this point. The bottom half of the conference is all thats left and it gives me no pleasure in knowing it won't be relevant at all. I think you have a lot of great points with other topics but this really isn’t the good takes.
Another factor to consider is that some of the schools leaving for the Pac-12 have been wanting out of the Mountain West for years. Some of the rumors I've heard is that there was a lot of animosity between certain schools in the Mountain West even before this all happened. I think those Mountain West schools along with the Pac-12 saw this as opportunity to effectively create a new conference to get away from the Mountain West.
sadly it's gotten to the point that both Conference Brass and the NCAA Brass don't really care about the student athletes when it comes to the ABSURD travel that say the Big 10 and ACC have to do now... nor does the NCAA wanna drop the hammer on these conferences and say ENOUGH is ENOUGH because unfortunately the NCAA has grown above the original idea for it and is now all about the $$$ and don't care who gets screwed over in the process... and god forbid you're in a lower division of the NCAA and want to move up, ya get penalized for it(which makes ZERO sense) and have to pay a lot of money(via bringing yourself up to the MINIMUM number of sports)[again makes zero sense] so what's really the point anymore of the NCAA and of Conferences in general... at this point you'd have to abolish all conferences and rebuild them geographically or... let the wild west continue, and again the NCAA ain't gonna do anything about it
The new Pac will become more relevant than the old MW while the new MW will become about as relevant as the current SBC. This dude is spewing out straight nonsense.
@@wjsIIII think it would be a toss up between who is better between the SBC and the new MW year to year. SBC probably would have a leg up most of the time.
This would be nice, but I am not paying $7.99 a month to watch Tarlenton St. Well, I am not paying for anymore streaming services, so that wasn't fair. Are there enough D-1 bodies to make this happen?
When USC and UCLA announced their departure two years ago, the discussion the in-the-know media had centered on the number each school seemed to draw for their football broadcasts. So it’s no accident Oregon & Washington eventually ended up in the B1G. However, just as important, that gave away the game. The video posited the notion that neutrals might choose to follow a conference. This is NOT the thinking in media circles. Most of us have time to follow ONE school. That’s where people paying to broadcast games are focused.
turned this video off when the guy said "are we really going to have 2 conferences with a hodgepodge of different schools covering the same geographic area". As if that isnt what the American, Sun Belt, and C-USA are lol
The Pac12s current members have higher average sagarin and kenopom ratings than the ACC. The Pac is also intentionally waiting to add till they get parameters on a media deal. In short, this take is bunk
@@thetouchback UNLV would leave for the PAC if they had the money to pay their MWC exit fee. There wasn't enough money left to make a serious offer to Memphis to pay their exit fees after the MWC poaching fees. It's not that they don't like the idea of joining. If the PAC can settle with the MWC and get those fees reduced, Memphis could be a possible option in the future, but I'm not holding my breath. The PAC will probably add someone like Texas State and move from there. I for one am very excited about the new PAC, it features a lot of like minded schools and the basketball will be great.
If a conference is officially sanctioned by the NCAA as an FBS conference, then how is it irrelevant? Because some guy on youtube declares them to be irrelevant?
How did being an officially sanctioned by the NCAA as DI conference help the Big West in 1990s? If you don't know history, you are doomed to repeat it.
@@thetouchback They are relevant so long as they exist. If they fail, then they are not irrelevant but rather they are dead. The schools will find new conferences and college football will move forward as it always has......
Name one DI/FBS conference in the West that is better off today than they were 10, 20, 30 years ago? Better yet, are you telling me Conference USA is relevant? It's not which is a shame because at one point it was. College football isn't moving forward, it is being stripped mined for excess profits. Rivalries, traditions, common sense, and all the rest are being thrown out the window because of passive attitudes like yours.
@@thetouchback This is the story of sports all around the world. Money before sport. The NCAA isn't going to reverse this trend even if it wanted to do so.
@@thetouchback The only people that could reverse this in the NCAA are the fans of USC, UCLA, Oregon and Washington. They did nothing, and in fact seem quite happy with the Big10. Sometimes you just have to accept reality.
The biggest problem that occurred was the Pac-12 didn't want the bottom schools in the Mountain West. Period. They didn't want to do a merger. That is the truth of this. Everyone else wanted a 14 team Pac-12 or MWC. That was NEVER going to happen according to the Pac-12 unless the MWC schools other than Boise took significantly less money than OSU & WSU. As for NIU & Toledo, it was a shot in the dark to make the media partners happy but I think this was just to placate everyone else before they go FCS. The MWC can say that they tried but no one is interested so unfortunately we are going to have to go FCS. Which I believe was one of the main options to start. But what do I know??
I think this has been the best argument yet for a merger. I'd rather have a makeshift west coast super conference than get x2 mid tier conferences. They should merge, then make divisions so teams like Hawaii don't have to travel much. Have a Pacific, and mountain division. Problem solved.
I have heard that as well. It seems like both sides just need to put all the hurt feelings aside and start from square one again. There is a win-win solution for both sides that doesn't involve money being pissed away on exit and legal fees.
As of now, in 2026-27, a 9 team conference and an 8 team conference will battle for two separate March Madness auto bids. Both conferences likely will get multiple bids to March Madness. It’s stupid to combine those conferences, and fight for one bid and maybe get three bids, when a two conference setup would likely get 4 bids. I can understand why Oregon State and Washington state did not want to merger with the likes of San Jose St! I assumed the hold up for Tarleton and Sacramento State is the pressure by the P4 schools, who want to stop FBS schools from moving up. Now that doesn’t make sense to me. If you give one bid to the playoffs to the G5 conferences, why do they care if they’re 60 teams or 65 teams fighting for one bid
The MWC received four tournament bids last season. Gonzaga, WSU and GCU also earned bids. That's seven schools in a potential combined conference in the mix. You just have to look at what the Big XII has done with basketball to understand why increasing the number of good teams would lift up the conference and not drag it down. A two conference setup, especially with 8/9/10 teams is going to be a two bid league at best. And there will be a lot of seasons where their regular season champ ends up in the NIT if they don't win the conference tournament. The WCC is proof of that.
Actually, it is the PAC 2 that kneecapped both conferences. Nobody is interested in joining the PAC 12, but you have the media people telling the MWC to add Texas schools, North Dakota State, Northern Illinois and Toledo for tv markets. Networks should not tell conferences on who they should add. Just add schools who are winning. Even Central Oklahoma in D2 is winning, and they are speaking loudly to join D1 soon.
It's a cute idea about adding winning programs but if your media partners won't pay the money to add them, will you take money out of your own pocket to do it? No, you won't. So media value at the G6 level does matter.
You nailed it! Western college sports is doomed! I wish my alma matter (Utah State) would drop football and bring back wrestling and gymnastics. The football team is embarrassing and a money pit.
The minute those AAC schools turned down the Pac, the MWC and Pac should've merged.
The PAC 12 had already burned their bridges with the Mountain West by that time.
The PAC and MWC had talks to merge but the PAC didn’t want all of the MWC teams. The PAC didn’t want Wyoming, SJSU, Hawaii, New Mexico, and Nevada.
This is totally hitting the nail on the head. The problem is as long as the Whack PAC's terrible leadership is there i don't see them coming to their senses. Gloria N (MWC Commish) was all about the Merger, but OSU WSU leadership thought their programs were "above" the MWC, and now here we are. I'd love to see reconciliation, but I don't see it.
Drawing the comparison between the PACifist-12(ish)/Mountain West drama with the way Jerruh has run the Dallas Cowboys over the past couple of decades is the perfect analogy to describe the train wreck that we're seeing from two conferences who will be light years behind the Sun Belt, let along the 'Merican. All they had to do was merge Oregon State and Washington State with the Mountain West and be done with it. As for New Mexico State, part of the reason that you won't see them in the MWC is because there is massive hatred between New Mexico State and the University of New Mexico in recent years. And I get the impression that a lot of these FCS powers (the Montanas, the Dakotas, etc.) would rather stay in FCS than join either one of these train wrecks.
I'm not much of a college football watcher these days. However, I've seen my share of FCS games, and it's not bad at all. In particular, the Big Sky and Midwest teams are better off where they're at rather than chasing FBS waterfalls like every other small to medium program that has tried.
You know what they should do? Have a separate confederation within the NCAA.
College Football Confederation
College Basketball Confederation
College Hockey Confederarion
College Athletic Confederation (baseball, softball, soccer, lacrosse, etc.)
College Olympic Confederation (track, swimming, fencing, etc.)
Regulate conferences dedicated to each confederation, avoids the need to have Stanford play NC State so many times a year and calling it an in-conference game.
I agree its the better call. The issue with FCS recruitment is of course that there's a strict time limit and the transition periods will kill any potential non FBS team from getting in at this moment
I like random weekday games, Arizona State/Texas State was a good one!
I watched that Arizona State/Texas State game on a Southwest Airlines flight and still think about it. I was thinking more along the lines of that New Mexico State at Jacksonville State contest on a Wednesday in October. Although, I admit, I still watched it.
They should have merged into one conference, but there is a reason the PAC 12 died. The two products they are pitching to networks are not going to work. If I am Gloria Navarez I get on the phone with the AAC and merge with them. Thats three different times zones and enough schools to schedule games without breaking the bank for traveling.
I'm old enough when it was the PAC 8.
In my view, it would have been a lot easier for Washington State & Oregon State to simply join the MW & let the Pac 12 die. Instead both the Pac 12 & MW are competing head to head for the same schools, media markets & territory to the detriment of both long term. It reminds me a lot of how in the early to mid 2010's, the USL & the NASL were involved in a very ugly battle over who had control over lower league American soccer & who was better positioned to compete with MLS. Ultimately thanks to the people running the NASL foolishly wanting to compete with MLS (even though they absolutely didn't have the financial means to do so) & getting into a costly feud with US Soccer over sanctioning, it was the USL who came out on top though some harm was done to the growth of lower division soccer. It wasn't until recently that the USL has found its footing & been able to have sustained growth to the point in which they can now challenge MLS for being the top league in American soccer. I hope that the Pac 12 & MW can collaborate with each other for the benefit of college athletics in the West because if they don't, it will end in a situation similar to what happened with the USL/NASL where one conference doesn't exist anymore & the other will be buried in irrelevancy that they themselves created.
I hope for a merger between the Pac-12 and the Mountain West conferences.
Not likely, the PAC 12 and the Mountain West are at odds now.
North Dakota State, South Dakota State, Montana, Montana State and Tarleton State are top winning FCS teams right now. The first four and Sacramento State have beaten FBS opponents. Montana, NDSU, SDSU and Sacramento State have beaten P5 teams in recent years. Those 6 to MWC would make MWC stronger than the PAC and better than CUSA. I see the MWC be more successful in a rebuilt conference than the PAC right now. MWC sounds like they have a new tv deal and the PAC still have not. The MWC will have the last laugh on the PAC. You have to look at the PAC 2 who broke the agreement up since Oregon State and Washington State think they are too good for several MWC schools.
While I would like to see it, the Dakota and Montana schools aren't likely to move up because their athletic departments have built an economic model that requires winning. That is how they keep attendance strong and bringing in sponsorship revenue. Simply put, is easier to sell winning FCS program in those markets than a losing FBS program. It is also cheaper operate.
Hopefully this is the kick in the pants they need to actually merge. Feels like hopium to even get a merger, but I do think if it happens, it will give a lot of impetus for some of the departed schools to return (seems to me like it would be Cal and Stanford if anything, the big football school have no chance of returning imo).
Teams will eventually join after others commit. Add Texas State, then UTSA or Texas El Paso to lock up recruiting opportunities in Texas. Continue going after Tulane and Memphis, eventually add UNLV
as a UNLV fan...and after watching your content......I agree in a sense that the MW and the PAC would be better off in the long run. :Putting aside your comentary about each of the conference commissioners ONLY looking out for themselves and their own jobs (which i kinda agree with you about ) the main gripe was money distribution from the playoffs each conference and each school made. EXAMPLE: Some felt if my team made the playoffs, and we're mainly talking about football and basketball here, my particular school should get the majority of the money since my school pareticipated in the playoffs and the others didn't. Why should i give some of my money to the so called "bottom feeders" of the conference. so the 2 points of this are.....if the monies recieved are shared equally among the members the ENTIRE conference benifits and the more teams who get into these playoffs the bigger the amount of money there is to share equally. The 2nd point is if my school wins ...we should get the money since my university spent the money in the athletic programs to make their teams qualify for the playoffs. I UNDERSTAND BOTH POINTS...THERE IS A VALID ARGUEMENT FOR BOTH SIDES. So the only solution, to me, is to negotiate a number that would be fair to everyone involved and we are talking about MILLIONS OF DOLLARS HERE. I tried to make an educated guess but it's very hard. If a schools teams makes it all the way to the NCAA championship football game it can earn if my figures are close to $21 million dollars and thats for 1 school making the college championship....havent even touched if multiple schools from a conf. make the football playoffs. basketball is different...the site i looked at said a school can earn up to 5 shares with ea share being close to $380k per round of the tourney. multiple schools say 5 miultiplies that figure by 5...and as they advance ea school gets that $380k for ea game played. but we're still talking allot of money here. so there has to be a formula to give the participants of NCAA playoffs a little more than their conference members as an incentive so to speak. i would suggest the schools who participate in these playoffs get like 25% of the monies generated and the rest split evenly among the conf members. well, thats my take. I'm sure i'm gonna get allot of negative responses...but instead of being critical...u give me a better solution.
A similar scenario regarding bowl payouts is what lead to the Mountain West forming in the first place all those years ago. There is certainly a case to be made for both performance based incentives and ones based on TV ratings based. Having a base annual payout for each conference member and they splitting everything else based on various other factors isn't a bad idea.
I believe the issue here is that the big schools that underperform with larger resources tend to dislike this method because they end up with less money. Small schools in the same conference and then better able to close the financial gap. This is why schools like UCLA will demand higher payouts from the Pac--12 that aren't tied to anything other than TV market size.
Preach Brother! Fox and ESPN know that these schools achieve their maximum value when they are united as the only G5 conference wholly within "The West." It's the moderately priced vehicle for national advertisers. If Fox had the whole package to augment their Big Ten Western bloc, they would own The West like The SEC owns The South. If ESPN could snag both groups together it would enable them to be competitive with Fox for ad dollars out West.
Exactly. Huge conflict of interest with these commish salaries and staff
Every time this guy says he hates Boise State, he gets another freckle
Mountain west has done a great job. Once Gloria could see what the PAC Who was trying to do, she put the screws to the PAC financially. The Leadership in the PAC is to blame for not getting a merger done. So glad both PAC schools have been beat by MW schools this season. Hope they lose any forthcoming lawsuit on poaching fees, too.
It just boggles the mind. Do the saz it out loud test....if it sounds stupid/sounds amazing, it probably is
MW "Hmmm, we're a decent little conference, $5mil a year per school isn't much though."
Pac2 "Everyone is gone. But, we still think we can get $15mil a year per school, and academics still matter, even though everyone is gone"'
MW "Hey, Pac2 - What say the MW dissolves, all 12 schools come to the Pac, we can probably leverage Pac branding in what is essentially adding relatively solid OSU and WSU to effectively a decent MW, and probably get $10mil a year per school. Also, we should get on Sacramento (drag UC Davis with them) for the media market to effectively guarantee at least $10mil. Also, lets drag in Gonzaga and St Mary's (GCU too, but prefereably another after that for even numbers, not sure who though) and have a gangbusters basketball conference. 16 school football conference, 18 school basketball conference, the only game in town for West Coast only sports.
Pac2 "No. I'd rather shoot us all in the feet"
Speaking Facts
Only way the PAC-12 could swallow their pride and merge would be if Apple pressures them to do so. If they do go for it, I hope the branding becomes the Pac-West.
Some good points, However, where I believe you are wrong is that the MWC didn't choose this. The PAC poached MWC schools.
Air Force should have jumped to the AAC when they had the chance
Why? Air Force doesn't want to travel to the east coast anymore than once pre year playing either Army or Navy....
@@ronclark9724 I’m saving “the Air Force doesn’t want to fly” for future jokes. Just thought you should know.
What does AAC stand for again?
Since Air Force is a service academy I thought for sure they might take this moment to jump to the AAC to join Army and Navy. There could be extra rules and procedures involved with changing conferences with service academies but I don't know for sure.
@ I recall reading somewhere that a service academy changing conferences requires Congressional approval. Not that Congress would normally make a big deal of this.
Well i think what kicked this off was the Mountain West wanted to absorb the Pac 12 and the two schools were not for that hence why they broke off the scheduling agreement. Now if i were to compare brand names i would say the Pac is the better brand but what do i know. So i think they should have merged as this would make them into a basketball super conference and probably the best non power conference. Now you did ask why New Mexico State has been invited and their is a partial reason and that is for at least the Mountain West New Mexico has an agreement that prevents New Mexico State from joining and that is probably why the Pac has not done it either. Now the move i would do is this merge the conferences, then see if i could get New Mexico to budge on the issue and if i could invite state, then i would see if any Texas schools like UTSA, Texas State, and Sam Houston are intrested, At the same time i would invite Idaho (former pac member) and both the Montana schools (also one is a former pac member) if they accept then i would try and go get the 4 Dakota schools (while the state schools are better the others are also very good and it eases travel). If that and the Texas schools go through that means i would have central time games. Now since my conference would be over 20 teams i would have to set it up with some divisions and make it to where they have like a playoff for who is the champion. Now there are many ifs and issues but i would at least try it and i would keep the name pac.
The Mountain West was willing to absorb WSU and OSU, but they chose to wage war with the Mountain West.... It is what it is....
The Mountain West voted to end the scheduling agreement. Fresno, Boise, SDSU & CSU wanted it to continue. That is why after the conference voted not to extend the agreement, they each reached out to the Pac-12 about joining the conference.
The P-MAC would be cool Pacific Mountain Athletic Conference
The fact of the matter is that a merger between the Pac/Mountain West is a pipedream now and probably always has been. It sounds like a nice idea until you remember two facts. First, the bottom half of the Mountain West is not appealing and drags down the better programs. No one will respect a Pac-12/MWC merger when half the conference basically brings nothing to the table. Second, the Mountain West has only negotiated in bad faith with the Pac-12. They charged money for a scheduling agreement and shafted WSU/OSU with crappy home schedules against the lesser Mountain West schools. To reup the scheduling agreements, the Mountain West demanded significantly more money out of the Pac-12 for the privilege. I also disagree with the narrative that the Pac-12 is equally screwed as the Mountain West. The Pac-12 will never be what it once was but its fate is far from sealed. The Pac has survived this long and may have an even brighter future once it scrounges up more money to swipe Tulane and Memphis. They can also wait for more realignment to help it out, like when the ACC collapses and if Utah decides to leave the Big 12. This is significantly better than what awaits the Mountain West, which is basically crippled at this point. The bottom half of the conference is all thats left and it gives me no pleasure in knowing it won't be relevant at all. I think you have a lot of great points with other topics but this really isn’t the good takes.
Another factor to consider is that some of the schools leaving for the Pac-12 have been wanting out of the Mountain West for years. Some of the rumors I've heard is that there was a lot of animosity between certain schools in the Mountain West even before this all happened. I think those Mountain West schools along with the Pac-12 saw this as opportunity to effectively create a new conference to get away from the Mountain West.
you sound hurt and sad
He's telling the truth. But don't worry. Those two conferences egos are so outlandish that they won't do the smart thing.
sadly it's gotten to the point that both Conference Brass and the NCAA Brass don't really care about the student athletes when it comes to the ABSURD travel that say the Big 10 and ACC have to do now... nor does the NCAA wanna drop the hammer on these conferences and say ENOUGH is ENOUGH because unfortunately the NCAA has grown above the original idea for it and is now all about the $$$ and don't care who gets screwed over in the process... and god forbid you're in a lower division of the NCAA and want to move up, ya get penalized for it(which makes ZERO sense) and have to pay a lot of money(via bringing yourself up to the MINIMUM number of sports)[again makes zero sense] so what's really the point anymore of the NCAA and of Conferences in general... at this point you'd have to abolish all conferences and rebuild them geographically or... let the wild west continue, and again the NCAA ain't gonna do anything about it
The new Pac will become more relevant than the old MW while the new MW will become about as relevant as the current SBC. This dude is spewing out straight nonsense.
The SBC is good though and getting better every year
@@wjsIIII think it would be a toss up between who is better between the SBC and the new MW year to year. SBC probably would have a leg up most of the time.
The PAC that barely exists? SMH.
@@Habitual_mufn The rankings I saw showed the current MW and SBC as tied. So, I'd wager the new MW is going to be less than the SBC going forward.
Whats wrong with the Sun Belt?
This would be nice, but I am not paying $7.99 a month to watch Tarlenton St. Well, I am not paying for anymore streaming services, so that wasn't fair. Are there enough D-1 bodies to make this happen?
When USC and UCLA announced their departure two years ago, the discussion the in-the-know media had centered on the number each school seemed to draw for their football broadcasts. So it’s no accident Oregon & Washington eventually ended up in the B1G.
However, just as important, that gave away the game. The video posited the notion that neutrals might choose to follow a conference. This is NOT the thinking in media circles. Most of us have time to follow ONE school. That’s where people paying to broadcast games are focused.
My guy! Love the kids, but it's pronounced De k AL b. I live about 30 miles from campus and know multiple graduates. Keep up the good work!
turned this video off when the guy said "are we really going to have 2 conferences with a hodgepodge of different schools covering the same geographic area". As if that isnt what the American, Sun Belt, and C-USA are lol
The Pac12s current members have higher average sagarin and kenopom ratings than the ACC. The Pac is also intentionally waiting to add till they get parameters on a media deal. In short, this take is bunk
Pardon? If the Pac-12 wasn't looking to add, why have they already been rejected by like half the AAC along with UNLV and Air Force?
@@thetouchback UNLV would leave for the PAC if they had the money to pay their MWC exit fee. There wasn't enough money left to make a serious offer to Memphis to pay their exit fees after the MWC poaching fees. It's not that they don't like the idea of joining. If the PAC can settle with the MWC and get those fees reduced, Memphis could be a possible option in the future, but I'm not holding my breath. The PAC will probably add someone like Texas State and move from there. I for one am very excited about the new PAC, it features a lot of like minded schools and the basketball will be great.
If a conference is officially sanctioned by the NCAA as an FBS conference, then how is it irrelevant? Because some guy on youtube declares them to be irrelevant?
How did being an officially sanctioned by the NCAA as DI conference help the Big West in 1990s? If you don't know history, you are doomed to repeat it.
@@thetouchback They are relevant so long as they exist. If they fail, then they are not irrelevant but rather they are dead. The schools will find new conferences and college football will move forward as it always has......
Name one DI/FBS conference in the West that is better off today than they were 10, 20, 30 years ago? Better yet, are you telling me Conference USA is relevant? It's not which is a shame because at one point it was.
College football isn't moving forward, it is being stripped mined for excess profits. Rivalries, traditions, common sense, and all the rest are being thrown out the window because of passive attitudes like yours.
@@thetouchback This is the story of sports all around the world. Money before sport. The NCAA isn't going to reverse this trend even if it wanted to do so.
@@thetouchback The only people that could reverse this in the NCAA are the fans of USC, UCLA, Oregon and Washington. They did nothing, and in fact seem quite happy with the Big10. Sometimes you just have to accept reality.
The biggest problem that occurred was the Pac-12 didn't want the bottom schools in the Mountain West. Period. They didn't want to do a merger. That is the truth of this. Everyone else wanted a 14 team Pac-12 or MWC. That was NEVER going to happen according to the Pac-12 unless the MWC schools other than Boise took significantly less money than OSU & WSU.
As for NIU & Toledo, it was a shot in the dark to make the media partners happy but I think this was just to placate everyone else before they go FCS. The MWC can say that they tried but no one is interested so unfortunately we are going to have to go FCS. Which I believe was one of the main options to start.
But what do I know??
I think this has been the best argument yet for a merger. I'd rather have a makeshift west coast super conference than get x2 mid tier conferences. They should merge, then make divisions so teams like Hawaii don't have to travel much. Have a Pacific, and mountain division. Problem solved.
Gloria Nevarez is open to a reconciliation, PAC-12 needs to change their position.
I have heard that as well. It seems like both sides just need to put all the hurt feelings aside and start from square one again. There is a win-win solution for both sides that doesn't involve money being pissed away on exit and legal fees.
Terrible opinion, the mountain west is irrelevant without Boise State
Video wasn't good. Do better Vandal.
Seems like the commenter is the problem.
As of now, in 2026-27, a 9 team conference and an 8 team conference will battle for two separate March Madness auto bids. Both conferences likely will get multiple bids to March Madness. It’s stupid to combine those conferences, and fight for one bid and maybe get three bids, when a two conference setup would likely get 4 bids.
I can understand why Oregon State and Washington state did not want to merger with the likes of San Jose St!
I assumed the hold up for Tarleton and Sacramento State is the pressure by the P4 schools, who want to stop FBS schools from moving up. Now that doesn’t make sense to me. If you give one bid to the playoffs to the G5 conferences, why do they care if they’re 60 teams or 65 teams fighting for one bid
The MWC received four tournament bids last season. Gonzaga, WSU and GCU also earned bids. That's seven schools in a potential combined conference in the mix. You just have to look at what the Big XII has done with basketball to understand why increasing the number of good teams would lift up the conference and not drag it down.
A two conference setup, especially with 8/9/10 teams is going to be a two bid league at best. And there will be a lot of seasons where their regular season champ ends up in the NIT if they don't win the conference tournament. The WCC is proof of that.
@ hello how many of those four teams are going to be in the Pac 12?
Because its not like UNLV, UNR, UNM or Wyoming all don't multiple tournament bids in the past decade or anything.
Actually, it is the PAC 2 that kneecapped both conferences. Nobody is interested in joining the PAC 12, but you have the media people telling the MWC to add Texas schools, North Dakota State, Northern Illinois and Toledo for tv markets. Networks should not tell conferences on who they should add. Just add schools who are winning. Even Central Oklahoma in D2 is winning, and they are speaking loudly to join D1 soon.
I disagree with this personally. This is all about money (and lots of it) and rivalry games are what bring in huge revenue.
It's a cute idea about adding winning programs but if your media partners won't pay the money to add them, will you take money out of your own pocket to do it? No, you won't. So media value at the G6 level does matter.
You pronounced Dekalb wrong.
The pac whatever should just merge into a 20 team league conference
Their egos won't allow it unfortunately
This station has a history of failures…
And yet, none of my so-called failures can match you referring to a TH-cam channel as a station. First time, long time, eh?
You nailed it! Western college sports is doomed! I wish my alma matter (Utah State) would drop football and bring back wrestling and gymnastics. The football team is embarrassing and a money pit.
Utah State has a gymnastics team already.
@Alohanate2004 Men's?
Hand talker. You don't come across well using foul language.
Ok Boomer. Don't hurt your knuckles clutching those pearls.
Boise State will do for the PAC what it did for the mountain west.
It never ceases to amaze me that everyone is an expert and they have a utuub channel.
It never ceases to amaze me that a person taking time to leave a complaint about a video they chose to click on can't even spell TH-cam correctly.
Crazy i thought the Idaho vandals closed down their campus decades ago