F-106 vs F-104 | Bruce Gordon
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ส.ค. 2020
- Bruce Gordon shares some great stories including conducting DACT/ACM in his F-106 Delta Dart against the F-104 Starfighter, banter between crews on different types, and where you can get a signed copy of his book.
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I can definitely agree with Bruce on the "missile problem." The AIM-4 Falcon missile used by the 102 and 106 were built fully integrated into those plane's fire control systems. They worked fine enough in the Delta Dagger/Dart, but were abyssmal in the F-4 Phantom because it had never been designed to use that missile. The Phantom started as a Navy plane and used Navy missiles; i.e. the AIM-9 Sidewinder. There was no way wiring USAF F-4's to use the AIM-4 would work out, and the combat record proves that.
I can listen to Bruce all day. Great story teller.
6:55 The history about the pass with open speed-brakes always get me a good chuckle.
It’s great isn’t it!
I laughed at that. I was picturing in my mind the Pilot seeing the F106 pass him with the speed brakes lol. That just cracks me up.
A-10 Thunderbolt smokes a Mig over Kosovo. That was me playing with the speed brake going nose up to keep altitude for one trying to avoid a stall incase I missed... Bad boy went on by and whoopsie missile flew. Some of it ya just can't make it up. Some of it when ya get back to base they'd rather not talk too much about dumb luck paying off. I just call it knowing your shit. Your plane doesn't necessarily have to be pointed the same direction you launch your Aim9... By the time the Mig driver realized what I pulled on him he was just a fireball in the sky as I threw the power back on. Best better bet when being pursued by a faster or more superior aircraft is to faint chop the throttle and hope your radar does its job when ya do...... U really don't ever get a second shot at someone in faster more capable aircraft when U slow down. If it's 2 on one put your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye if ya stay inside to see what happened after ya puil the trigger. Never stay on board when it's 2 against one. Bag one and bail on out.
Mr. Gordon!!! He is a true American hero. I asked him a couple years ago why there were no F106's in Vietnam and he spent time out of his day answering that question he explained here. but he gave me a lot more detail. Its a part in time which we don't here much about. Yes Vietnam was going on but he was up there fighting another war, protecting our coast, flying intercepts. What a true proffesional, put on a suit and tie for this interview, but he has done this for all of his vidoes. On another note I have noticed a lot of authors complaining about amazon, charging way too much for books. I'm glad I got to see this video!
Of course he wears a suit and tie. He is a gentleman and a professional from the days before slob culture took over. I wear a suit by default to anything professional related, unless it will make me grossly overdressed for the other people there. We could all learn from his example!
@@chrisperrine6905 "Slob culture" LOL, thats for sure.
What an absolutely cracking bloke - Go Bruce!
Love to hear Major Gordon teaching history, of the greatest time (in my opinion) of military aviation.
Mr Gordon is a delight to listen to. He was at one point very active on TH-cam and would regularly interact the community.
I have been a big fan of Bruce Gordon and his great stories for a few years now and I am so happy for him...and for all of us...that he is finally getting some long overdue recognition and the chance to share his experiences with a lot more people. Congratulation, Mr. Gordon..!!
I love the way Bruce tells a story! I can listen to him all day thanks so much!
The F-104 was a Mach 2 replacement for the F-100 as an air superiority fighter. The F-106 was a flying anti-aircraft weapon to be used against Soviet bombers. I love the look of both. Kelly Johnson and his Lockheed Skunk Works produced a fine aircraft in the F-104. But I really like the Delta wing of the F-106. Though I *_am_* a fan of the entire Century Series!
I had heard the F-104 could not turn tightly. It was more of an interceptor. Also it was difficult to land and was called a widow maker.
The F-104 was a point defense interceptor. The the NATO air forces who bought it (Canada, Germany, Denmark, Italy et.) turned then into some other things entirely including nuclear strike. In a Red Flag exercise RCAF F-104s 'took out' theoretically of course, Cheyenne Mountain.
@@edletain385 Denmark did not alter the F-104's role. In Denmark it was an AWX interceptor with a bit of strafing as it's secondary role
@@edletain385 It was conceived of as an Interceptor, but was forced into a multirole during development due to Congress/budgeting.
@@foilist1 The F-104 was indeed a widow maker. I was told at the time that it killed 15 test pilots BEFORE it became operational! The downward ejection seat was a bad idea. I heard many years ago that Kincheloe AFB was named after test pilot Captain Iven Kincheloe, who had flown the Bell X-2 rocket plane to 126,200 feet and was named America's first Spaceman. When testing the F-104, it failed on takeoff and the downward ejection seat killed him. They changed the seat to a upward-firing seat.
Nice! There's not a lot of stuff on the Darts and Daggers!
Bruce Gordon's channel is full of Delta & Darts stuff: th-cam.com/users/spiritofattack I recommend!
I suspect that with a cockpit checkout and a couple hours of dual (maybe more), Bruce would and could take a six up one more time. His enthusiasm and obvious love of that great plane is infectious. The interaction between the interviewer and Bruce as well as the great stories (and storytelling) made this a most enjoyable view.
Thanks very much mate.
Love it. I grew up at Griffis, as my dad was on the F106 (49th FIS).
@@rickt.1870 I remember riding my bike around perimeter road, right behind the alert B52s. And right under the approach as they landed (different time being that close). I was just sure they were going to accidentally drop a bomb on my head, hey I was 9). I loved to watch all the aircraft at Griffis back then. Obviously, the 106 held a special place for me.
What year was your dad a pilot? My dad was squadron commander when they almost won William tell in 82’ LT Col Wusk.
When he says something " nearly killed me once" you know it is literally true.
Great stories! As an old F-106 avionics tech, I can really appreciate them.
I remember seeing the F-106s of the 177th fighter squadron on the tarmac as a kid in the late 70's early 80s , my dad driving our family from Philadelphia to Ocean City N.J. Beautiful aircraft
While TDY at Tyndall AFB back in the early eighties and was walking down the flight line near the end of runway. Suddenly, there was this huge explosion which scared the shit out of me. Thinking something really bad had happened I looked out toward the runway. It was an F-106 lighting the burner for his take off roll. Loudest aircraft I ever heard in full burner which includes F-4's and F-15's, both of which I had worked on. In fact, I was in an F-15 squadron at the time. Later in the week, for reasons I don't remember, they asked me to work on a 106 for a pressurization problem even though I had no experience whatsoever with one. Somehow, with TO in hand I managed to fix it.
J-75 will do that.
Bruce is the greatest...
What a wonderful video! Bruce’s knowledge, enthusiasm are amazing. He’s as sharp as a tack.
Hello Bruce from a NORAD guy from Duluth! Sharp as a tack, man!
The century fighters F104 starfighter and F106 Delta Dart/Dagger and Crusader my favs
F-8 Crusader, Dogfighter with Four 20mm Cannons and Missiles.
The F-106 was never developed to its full potential. A belly full of Sparrows and a look-down shoot-down radar could have gone a long way. Essentially the C/D and X proposals.
That's absolutely right, the Dart had so much space left for updates & modernizations, never used to its capabilities. The power of lobbyism. It's a pity that no 106 is flying anymore, the last flew in 1988 if I remember correctly :(
@@Omnihil777 nasa had some flying in the 90s.
The F-106 was a major upgrade of the F-102.
If you want to know what a single-engine delta wing fighter is capable of, just look at the French development of the 60's Mirage III into the Mirage 2000 and the Rafale (which carries all of the Mirage 2000's DNA).
Bruce is cool. Thank you very much for posting. Ground crews: my little brother was crew chief on a 52 during Linebacker 2.
Thank God, these guys are leaving their stories with us.
49th FIS from 78 to 85. Loved working on the Six.
Bruce is always fantastic.
Love the F-106! My father was a lead engineer at Kelly AFB, F-102, & F-106, did a lot of engineering on the plane and gun fitting. I have seen a gentleman driving around in a C5 yellow Corvette with an F-106 license plate.
Ayyyyyy I knew you guys would get round to brucey, hes a legend.
The guy is a dynamic speaker.
Saw a 106 take off from Bergstrom FAB once, turn almost vertical and go to burner. Pretty!
Bruce Gordon is a great story teller :))
Just found this channel. Thank you.
Glad you found us, Tony.
The Century series fighters were just super sexy... the F-105 "Thud" was my favorite!
Bruce is cool... I like his comments about the aircraft maintainers. As a career Ammo troop, I always appreciate recognition from the aircrews.
Great stories.
Just imagine if they built a modern day F-106 with fbw and an F-119! It'd be the fastest thing in the skies!
great guy hope he has more stories
He has. Tons of, in his channel: th-cam.com/users/spiritofattack and I can recommend the book too!
I have more stories! I not only have my stories, but the stories of my friends which they never published. Fighter pilots don't usually make good authors. A few great pilots, like Robin Olds, used a ghost-writer. I wrote my own book. I probably won't write another because my Spirit of Attack book has my stories which can be put into writing, and I've made videos of those and additional stories which are best told in the video format. I paid good money to talk to a movie producer, but he told me that he "needed a hero, who meets with an obstacle, and emerges triumphant. Sex would help". My book has about eighty stories with no hero, no plot, and no sex. People say I should get creative and write a fiction story, but I always get hung up on the facts. Maybe someone else can take a few of the stories and make a sexy plot out of it.
remember the F106 flying for the Air National Guard here in Tucson when I was young- gorgeous plane
Flew A-37's out of DM.
My favorite the f 102-106 dagger an dart. Those planes stayed in service until 1988 with the best safety record of any fighter including those of today., And the fastest speed record of any single engine fighter to this day. Amazing aircraft.
Bruce is an American treasure 🇺🇸
Beautiful aircraft!
My father was a pilot of F104 starfighter!
Don't forget the F102
03:00 especially with the comparative lesser wingload then the f-104 had. You gotta love the Delta Dart, a great airplane. To be honest, I fell for all the rumours about how mediocre the F-106 was but then Mr. Bruce Gordon with his awesome channel ( th-cam.com/users/spiritofattack ) & his book "The Spirit of Attack" tought me otherwise. BTW I can really recommend the book, even I as a german and only rc- and simulation-pilot understood everything and Mr. Gordon has a talent for thrilling storytelling IMO. May he live long and prosper!
Thanks to Bruce, the F-106 is actually my second favourite cold-war fighter as of today, only after the formidable English Electric Lightning, that british wonderbread!
The Delta-wing concept surely has its limitations. Very high induced drag and not very big lift-coefficient per alpha. One big advantage is the ability to carry a lot of bombs/misiles
@@birgerkagan6087 the French developed the Delta Wing into something really competitive with the Mirage III -> Mirage 2000 -> Rafale.
A Mirage 2000C today is still able to give an F/A-18 a run for its money in a one-circle rate fight. The Delta Wing bleeding off lots of energy during maneuvering can be used as an asset.
@@svenschwingel8632 I'm not sure about bleeding off lots of energy as an asset. I recall some DCM missions against the Draken and from our point of view it was to our advantage if we could make them turn ("we" was the hunter/killer team consisting of the F-104 and the Hawker Hunter). So the 104 made them turn, and the Hunter finished them off
@@birgerkagan6087 that's a special kind of scenario, though. A fast interceptor coupled with a really zippy subsonic light fighter would make anyone sweat 😬
It's just that in a 1v1, a delta wing pilot with proper energy management skills can use his wing like an airbrake, making his aircraft turn faster with every second of the turn into the peak turn rate of his flight envelope. I have seen ex-military french Mirage/Rafale pilots do that in DCS quite successfully with the Mirage 2000, giving some Viper drivers quite the headache 😂
@@svenschwingel8632 Indeed it was - and a very succesful one as such. As you probably have found out by now I never was a big Delta-wing fan, mostly due to my interest in aerodynamics. As always people end up being quite happy with the aeroplan they get assigned to and that was also the case with my colleagues assigned to the Draken
Good guy right there!
I went into the U.S. Air Force in,1976. I have a very high IQ, two points below genius, but unfortunately, I also have some endocrinological issues which were not known at the time. It resulted in my being rather immature in most every way. Yet, the Air Force accepted me into a guaranteed job as a Crypto-Tech. Long story short, the Air Force needed techs in other positions, and I ended up as an Analog Flight Simulator Tech stationed at Langley AFB in 1977, attached to the 48th FIS, which flew 106's. What an absolutely great airplane that was, and considering when it was designed, very far ahead of its time. The MA-1 Radar system in conjunction with the ground based radar system gave the airplane capabilities far ahead of anything anyone else had at the time.
When I was at Langley, the Cold War wasn't cold, and TU-95 Bears were making routine trips to Cuba. The Bears would get picked up off of Iceland, or even further up, and escorted all the way to Cuban airspace. Some of that was by F-4s, much of the escort was by 106s. Pilots would relate that the noise from the Bear was so bad they would hear the vibrations from the props in their cockpits over 100 yards away!
Yeah, I miss the Dart. Would have love to have flown one, just once.
Unfortunately, due to my immaturity, I was discharged after serving only 19 months, but I don't hold that against anyone, it is just what it was. I miss having served with some great pilots, and I miss being a part of 'Team Taz! Only those in the know will get that reference! Montana had Big Sky, Taz had . . . , well, never mind.
I remember Langley having F-15’s early 80’s they have F-22’s now. I also remember Seymour Johnson, Goldsboro NC having B-52’s now its a fighter base F-15’s.
@@davidefland1985 First Fighter had the F-15s when I was there in the late 70's. In fact, they were the first squadron to field them. We had a Det at Seymour Johnson, IIRC. I also remember a demonstration for the F-16 and the A-10 for the TAC brass. Falcon (before it became the VIper) took off from the end of the runway, had gone vertical, gotten it's gear tucked up and was going past the vertical into a rolling climb before it was half way down the runway, in front of our ops building. Impressive. The Hog was even more impressive, though, since it was maneuvering entirely inside the limits of the base. All at some extremely low altitude. That was amazing to this 19 year old (at the time!)
My understanding was 48th FIS went to the Eagles in the early 80's and then from there, was relocated to Texas or something as a Training Squadron, flying T-38s, I think, and then disbanded.
@@GaryMCurran Thanks for your work in the simulator! I learned a lot in the simulator. Victor Balenko, the pilot who defected from Russia with a MiG-25, landing in Japan, was shown an F-102 simulator. Secrecy kept us from showing him the F-106 simulator. Victor said the F-102 system was far better than anything Russia had at the time! The F-106 simulator would have watered his eyes!
48th Load Toad '76-'80. I know what Taz had. Used to watch Capt Stultz paint nose art on birds in the hanger. There was no better burner light than the Six, period.
Richard 'Dick' Shultz, what a great artist he was. Unfortunately, I lost my 48FIS beer stein. Proud reminds of what Taz had.
I believe that God put me at Langley and the 48th for a very specific reason. My family today would not exist if I had not been there, had not met at the time S/Sgt Bruce Ruemann (sp) who was my direct NCO. Had it not been for Bruce, although he'll never know or unless he reads this, my life was turned around and continues to be turned around from what he did for me. He introduced me to God in a way I had never known before. I will thank Him one day on the Bema, but in the meantime, I owe him a lot.
I was only at Langley for a year before being separated, but it was a great time and I miss the Six and the people there.
The Kindle version is on sale for 4 bucks. Cool story, looking forward to reading the book.
Colonel Gordon is such a cool man! A movie should be made about his era. Pity there are no flying Darts & Daggers left to be filmed in their element. CGI is useful, but it's just not the same, is it?! Even if they could hire some Mirage deltas and paint them in U.S. colors and insignia - I don't think that would look right.
I absolutely second this, I love his storytelling on his channel too. The f-106 was such a great plane, ahead of its time IMO. And so much capability for possible updates! You're right, it's a shame that these birds are no more. And we NEED that movie!
Nice to see a Knuck with respect for Gunnies and other ground crew.
I'm not sure I understand why the ROE in the Vietnam simulation were no enemy position information. Weren't AWACS operating over Laos and off the coast of N. Vietnam? Great interview with Bruce!
The USAF had poor radar coverage and there was resistance to intelligence being sent to pilots. It was the Teaball project that expanded radar coverage and allowed information to be fed to pilots in real time.
Never heard that F-106 served in Vietnam but F-102 served there for a while
There are pictures of F104s in SE Asia green, black and brown camouflage. Great high speed research aircraft. Pointless fighter.
@@SvenTviking i know ;) i have a lot of Books about the 104s servicelife, i didnt wrote that the 104C wasnt there, i wrote the F-106 wasnt there , USAF used the F-104C in the fighterbomber /CAS role in VN, it was no success the F-100D performed much better in this role , the Hun had much more payload then the F-104C.
No brown in the SEA three color Camo, two green tones and Tan/Sandcolor
Anyone with any interest in the Six needs to learn about the "Corn Field Bomber". (It was really the Wheat Field Fighter/Interceptor, but that don't have the same ring to it.)
Cool story, they have her on display at the National Museum of the USAF up the road in Dayton.
The Dart was regarded as the best dogfighting aircraft in our inventory prior to the teen series fighters. I knew a retired LTC who flew with the 95 FIS then out of Dover. He related how they would fight Navy F-4's out of Oceana and would "tie a knot in their asses".
On the comment regarding the missile armament carried by the Six it should be noted that none of the missiles carried by our fighters in Vietnam worked as planned.
I recall that F-102s were used to protect Saigon against any attempt by the NVAF to attack the south.
The Migs would avoid the F-102's when they escorted the bombers going in.
When I was in Saigon in 1971, I wondered why the NVAF never attacked us. The answer was simple: their fighters were short range and couldn't get that far and back. Russia's bombers would have been juicy targets for the fighters we had in the area!
F-104s deployed to the SEA/Vietnam region were no better off vs the F-106. Not equipped with RWR etc and suffered accordingly.
The earlier F-102A Delta Dagger did see action in Vietnam, but was really out of it's element. The Deltas were thoroghbreds, designed for one mission - high altitude bomber intercept. Trying to use them as dogfighters did them a great injustice.
The 102 was also based in Holland by USAF Europe during the Cold War at Soesterberg AFB. It would have been if questionable use against a Warsaw Pact attack in that theatre whereas its replacement, the F-15 was definitely up for the job
Primary sources are essential in history.... ones from thousands of years ago are relatively rare compared later times (generally speaking, thinking of after the widespread introduction & use of the printing press).... I just wonder what future historians will think about the wealth of audio/video that has come into existence since the 00s aside from "I really have to watch __ALL__ of that... kill me now" whenever they are researching a topic. I mean you allready see this to some degree with say, someone researching the firearms of Winchester, but the sheer amount of stuff like this video where you have a living primary source right there so you can see all the body movements, change of voice tone, all of it.
Just a little random thought its almost 0300 and maybe I'm just too tired but for whatever reason I thought it worthwhile to add as a comment here.
addendum: There really is no substitute for hearing something from one of the people who lived it and I love listening. Maybe its military stuff like this, maybe its just about the development of a new tool or toolset (take the Hubble telescope for instance). I am more of a student of times before audio and video recording were invented, so along with the awesomeness that they bring, they always strike me as being in a totally different league.
addendum 2: all this modern stuff makes it so important to see people at 2 stages, 1) at the time it happened, 2) years on their memory. Rear Admiral Chris Parry of the Royal Navy gives a great talk on this at the Naval War college ---> th-cam.com/video/yLn2TJZqR_o/w-d-xo.html
(you can see a similar thing if you look at what people said about General Lee of the CSA early one and what they said later)
Anyways, its definatly too late if I am talking naval war college and civil war in the comments of a video relating to air combat in Vietnam :D .................... ------> sleep.... hopefully
Does George Dubya ever turn up at the '106' reunions?
If the F-106 with the Vulcan cannon had been able to take on some MIGs in Vietnam, I bet they would have done really well!
Sadly in the only encounter between a mig and an F106 over Saigon the Mig 21 won..
@@sandemike That was the F-102, not the Six. No Sixes went to Vietnam. Many F-102s were lost there, mostly due to destruction on the ground by sappers. It was out of it's element.
@@lancerevell5979 I stand corrected.
@@sandemike The F-106 was never in Vietnam. You are likely thinking about an F-102 near the DMZ.
@@jimharris5616 Correct. I never could tell my darts from my daggers.
Aww I wish their was a way to buy the book in the UK. I really want to build a modal of the f106 and building a F101 at the moment
you need to read the description again , theres a link to Amazon UK, JOB DONE.
Once the bomb load was dropped, there wasn't an airplane in the Vietnam theater that could out run the F-105 below 20,000 feet until the arrival of the F-111. Both the F-105 &F-106 had the J75 engine, F-104, F-4, F-101 had the less powerful J-79s.
F-101 was not powered by the j-79.
The F-101 was powered by two J-57 engines.
I kinda doubt that since the 104 could do more than 900mph below 10,000 feet.
I find it mildly amusing that the wargame scenario that Bruce discusses used F-101s to simulate F-105s instead of, you know...just using F-105s. I guess the 105s were all tied up doing something important, and perhaps TAC was not as interested in the what-if scenario of best escort fighter for Southeast Asia as ADC/ADCOM was. Another thing that interests me is that, per Bruce, the F-106 was assessed unsuitable for Vietnam because it didn't perform well at lower altitudes, and yet the F-102 served in combat in SEA in a number of different roles, the irony being that whatever performance deficiencies might be present in the 106 would almost certainly be worse in the 102, since the 106 was essentially just a 'perfected' version of the 102. I can't imagine any reason the F-106 could not have served as B-52 escort (a mission performed by the F-104 with poor results and the F-102 with mediocre results.)
Bruce said here that the 6 did not have SAM warning system.
I suspect that first because the 102 was in service a lot earlier than the six, and second because it didn´t met its speed expectations necessary to catch russian nuclear armed bombers before they entered US or Canadian territory, was rushed into Vietnam. Then the six when finally entering service surely had its priorities to serve SAC. Even later the reasons Bruce explained have set in.
F-106 should have been mass produced. It was truly a BA aircraft.
the f-106 would mop the floor with the f104
Not it it was being flown like an F104 was meant to be used, Flown like a mig 21, with GCI yeah.
Properly used, the 104 was a quick, nasty, little boom n' zoom machine.
The Soviets didn't fly like that
The real failing of the 104 was... NONE of the countries that flew it (including the USA) actually used it the way Kelly Johnson envisioned it to be used.
It was supposed to be a light weight, cheap, basic, day fighter carrying a couple sidewinders and a 20mm cannon, Using its redonkulous rate of climb and superior acceleration to strike from altitude, carve up a target, and return to its perch, rinse and repeat.
Instead it was used as an interceptor, a bomber escort, or... most rediculous... a multi role strike fighter. And it sucked at all three.
But It was actually pretty good at what it was conceived for - likely would've given the Mig 17s, 19s and 21s a hard time in SEA if it had been used for it.
@@stinkyfungus huh a day fighter you sure about that? Everything in the f 104 screams interceptor, fast climb, great acceleration and abysmal turning ability . I agree that many countries used it the wron way, especially we germans , I mean its the same as with the me262: clearly a fighter but hitler wanted t to be used as a fighter-bomber and then a few decades later we repeated that mistake with the f104. I´m not saying the f104 is bad, quite the opposite but the f 106 is just better in almost every respect, there is a reason why it was called the ultimate interceptor. However the one thing that really sucks is that many countries that used the f104 could have chosen a much much better choice: The f11f1f super tiger which germany for example was acutally very interested in procuring....
How much combat F-106 was in?
None, it never saw combat.
The closest was escorting EC-121's off the coast of North Korea after an EC-121 was shot down by NK.
@@Sholto_David The air national guard enjoyed them.
@@jg3000 I'm sure they did, it's an incredible aircraft but it never saw combat.
Bruce was a rare breed, Interceptor Pilot, pure and simple. Kill Russian Bombers! Fantastic
I wonder how an F 16 engine would perform in a F 106.
The F-106X proposal had the same engine and radar as the F-15...
@@wwclay86 The normal F-16 also has the same engine as the F-15
@@martijn9568 yep.
The short answer is that it would have been fast, had a great payload...and still would have been hampered greatly in close combat.
It was an "interceptor", which means "high top speed and low maneuverability". Some powered canards might have helped. Not that the Six couldn't or didn't practice ACM, but delta wings hemorrhage speed and energy any turning fight, while only the later "Six Shooters" had a gun.
Thats what the F16 XL always reminded me of.
Favorite Century Series aircraft. The delta wing is the strongest wing. There's a reason the Mirage 2000, for example, can pull up to 13 g if it were not fitted with a g-limiter.
The majority of high performance fighters since about 1960 have had delta wings. The early ones had the control surfaces attached to the rear of the wing. Later models had the control surfaces separated from the wing to make the aircraft more maneuverable.
This reminds me of my Opa recounting the story of his friend in an Alpha Jet versus 4 F15s. Spoilers: the Alpha Jet won.
the F-104 can pull 12-13G's at mach 0.90 at the deck with the wing leading edge tilted down
Humans can't pull that many Gs.
@@stevennaylor4053 G Suit alots humans to pull more G's and highest a jet can pull without falling apart is 16G's
'
come on america...
american airplane company can makeing many more better F-104 / F-106 with longer range, missiles, powerful radars...
both F/F can useing both aircraft carrier and ground landing
Whut
Hughes Falcon missiles were crap in a dogfight as they were designed to shoot down Soviet Bear bombers. This made the F-106 useless as a defence fighter.
The Falcon missiles (AIM-4F/G) on the F-106 was never used in a dogfight. You are likely thinking of the AIM-4D that Robin Olds maligned. Dogfights were WWI/II, Korean war tactics that proved to be ineffective in Vietnam against trained NV pilots. Most of the Ace's of Vietnam had air defense tactics backgrounds and employed those tactics. The last gun kill the US had was near the end of the Vietnam war. The last gun kill in the world was in 1995 by the Israeli Air Force. All air-to-air kills since those have been with missiles. The US has not had an air-to-air gun kill in over 45 years.
The problem with the Falcon in Vietnam was the F-4, not the missile. The missile needed the MA-1 computer system of the F-106 for optimum performance. We could have fired the Falcon in the manual mode, as they did in the F-4, but the F-106 always used the computer. I have trained with both the Sidewinder and the Falcon, and have fired a number of Falcons. I consider the Falcon (when fired by an F-106) far superior to the Sidewinder. See my video Spirit of Attack / MACE KILL for a test of the reliability of the Falcon under operational conditions. Two shots, two kills. True, we didn't have maneuvering targets, but maneuvering, afterburning targets did not exist at the time. From my experience with both missiles, I expect the Falcon would do BETTER against a maneuvering target than the Sidewinder. The Falcon had bigger flight surfaces than the Sidewinder and could turn more sharply. The Falcon could also be fired from much closer range.
@@spiritofattack Bruce, let me help you with the facts. The Falcon missile used in the Vietnam war was the AIM-4D. Due to the fact that it could not be physically carried on the F-106 and was not compatible with the fire control on the F-106 it was never used on the F-106. The AIM-4D was carried on the F-101 and the F-102. The missile needed their fire control, and preferably the MG-13 on the F-102, to be properly prepared before launch. When fired from the F-4 it was listen for the tone and squeeze the trigger. The missile had much capability the F-4 could not employ. An additional problem on the F-4 was the missile was mounted in an area of high buffeting which really played havoc on the missile's electronics and gyro's.
@@jimharris5616 Yes, I know those facts. I was making it simple because the average person thinks all Falcons are the same, and say that the F-106s missile was not good. Can't confuse the public with too much detail.
@@spiritofattack I am a great fan of the F-106, my wife's father built them here in San Diego when he worked for Convair in the late 1950s early 1960's. Certainly the best of the Century series of fighters, performance similar the English Electric Lightning I used to watch at the local RAF base. But I have to say I have read nothing good on the Hughes Falcon and Super Falcon missiles. While Sidewinder has clocked up hundreds of kills in all kinds of aircraft and without a special radar / weapons system. In contrast the Falcon has done very little to build a reputation. I would also point out the very limited export sales of the Falcon, only the Swiss buying the missile off the shelf. Sweden built their own copy but replaced many parts including the seeker head. The other operators got the missiles with their aircraft, F-101 or F-102. I guess as a pure bomber interceptor it would have done fine against the Tu-95 Bear.
Fantastic video! You can see more about the F-106 here: th-cam.com/video/OqVTAlVH41M/w-d-xo.html ..and here the F-104: th-cam.com/video/8W-stP23Bkw/w-d-xo.html
F-106 vs.and F-104...LOL, bye bye F-104
Just another talking head video.
Cheers for watching, Ted.