I Created a Game Engine Just to Optimise This

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 1.2K

  • @Vercidium
    @Vercidium  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +563

    Download the source code for all my videos here: patreon.com/vercidium
    If you have any rendering or game dev questions, ask them here!

    • @utilizator500
      @utilizator500 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +17

      Christ, could you have made the code any smaller? I don't know what 4k 60 inch monitor you have but this is bad on small screens.

    • @FortisConscius
      @FortisConscius 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Have you looked at Minetest, per chance? Do you have thoughts about it?

    • @_vicary
      @_vicary 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      Is this technique used by any popular game engines and why?

    • @Greedy-Allay
      @Greedy-Allay 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +14

      I feel like they should stop inventing new hardware, and instead try to optimise games so they work with the "older" hardware if you know what i mean

    • @monicde4570
      @monicde4570 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      Recently I learned about Vram for optimization. My game uses Unity and mixes 2D and 3D. So we have a lot of hand-paint texture, filling up my Vram. Starting to learn how Vram works. I found most tech is a comparison for disk size like jpg but when it sends GPU is still big(I know Crunch but it is just for fast decompression not reduced size). Found the only thing I could do was pack the channel and tell the artist to reduce texture count and separate scenes into small chunks to load.
      I want to know more about Vram's work and if there is any way non-destructive or lost too much texture quality to be optimized in modern GPU. Anything even not for unity is appreciated!

  • @ThislsYusuf
    @ThislsYusuf 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +10378

    The greater skill here isn't code optimization, but rather how you break it down with tasty metaphors to make for easily digestible content. Kudos.

    • @Tuhar
      @Tuhar 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +226

      I too, am now hungry for burgers.

    • @DriftJunkie
      @DriftJunkie 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +159

      Just let this man cook

    • @ThislsYusuf
      @ThislsYusuf 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +63

      Haha, he's cooking fr@@DriftJunkie

    • @Nerthexx
      @Nerthexx 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +40

      Analogy an average american can understand, yes.

    • @reed6514
      @reed6514 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +18

      I prefer strawberry flavored metaphors 🍓

  • @Necrotechian
    @Necrotechian 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +5330

    123 optimization videos later: This game runs so smooth you can get 4k graphics with 120 frames a second on a potato clock even without the potatoes.

    • @uis246
      @uis246 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +116

      Quake 666

    • @SethbotStar
      @SethbotStar 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +222

      I think the first arm cpu was so energy efficient that it ran on ambient electricity or something like that, maybe that could be an actual goal point of optimization, to have it run on that.

    • @RowbotMaster
      @RowbotMaster 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +243

      ​@@SethbotStarrebuilds crysis to run on a single double A for a year

    • @elcalabozodelandroide2
      @elcalabozodelandroide2 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +69

      ​@@RowbotMasterand yet it remains un-portable for the switch bc nintendo.

    • @MichaelChin1994
      @MichaelChin1994 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +99

      He's gonna get Doom working on an Ancient Roman sun dial

  • @ARTEMISXIX
    @ARTEMISXIX 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +4934

    Vercidium trying to explain game engine optimisation to an American:
    "So imagine a burger."

    • @emporioalnino4670
      @emporioalnino4670 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +492

      They should make a version more at home for Aussies
      "Ok so imagine a parma.."

    • @Vercidium
      @Vercidium  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +456

      @@emporioalnino4670 I love a good parma

    • @violet_broregarde
      @violet_broregarde 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +98

      @@emporioalnino4670 What's a parma, a chicken parmesan? That's standard bar food in Australia? I love that

    • @CanalDoPhillipeMEME
      @CanalDoPhillipeMEME 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +43

      most healthy american breakfest be like

    • @Vercidium
      @Vercidium  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +103

      @@violet_broregarde a chicken parmigiana

  • @KilledByAPixel
    @KilledByAPixel 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1023

    This is why you can use double buffering, which is kind of like what you are doing but instead of for the framebuffer, you are doing it for the mesh. Normally GPU operations queue up in the buffer, they aren't meant to be completed by the end of the refresh. If you use a double buffered system, it allows everything to render without a stall, because when a stall would have occurred, it just shows the back buffer like normal.

    • @SirNightmareFuel
      @SirNightmareFuel 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +99

      Thank you! so that's where I recognised this technique, it's like a Double Buffering👍❤
      Its probably still worth it, but the trade off you have with this technique is with the increased memory usage, as you'd about double the memory needed for the area around the player, and it adds more complexity managing these separate sources of meshes.

    • @OMGclueless
      @OMGclueless 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +83

      @@SirNightmareFuel That's true but GPUs have massive amounts of very-fast memory these days in order to support the heavy texture bandwidth of AAA games. Doubling or even 10x'ing the memory used by the meshes is not a huge deal because they all refer to the same textures and the textures are the most memory-hungry part of rendering unless you go crazy with poly-count.

    • @1Maklak
      @1Maklak 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +34

      It's even better with tripple buffering. One framebuffer is displayed on screen, one is being rendered to and the third one is ready to be displayed. When the part of hardware responsible for displaying is done with a display cycle (or VSync kicks in), it looks at the buffers and either displays the same one again or displays the ready buffer if it is newer. When the part that does the rendering is done, it marks it's buffer ready, then renders into whichever of the other buffers is not being displayed. This way the newest ready buffer is always displayed, rendering works continuously and there is no tearing, at least in theory.

    • @javaguru7141
      @javaguru7141 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +33

      The real downside to this type of technique when used for the framebuffer is latency. I can't play games with triple buffering except on very high refresh-rate monitors because the latency causes me nausea (except with an uncapped internal/buffer refresh rate which doesn't seem to be commonly implemented sadly).

    • @sarkedev
      @sarkedev 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Yup, screen buffer was my first thought too.

  • @stormsoendergaard3023
    @stormsoendergaard3023 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1300

    This is standard behavior in all major game engine used in production for the last 10-15 years.

    • @diddlenfiddle7311
      @diddlenfiddle7311 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +364

      I was thinking that might be the case because unless I'm missing something, which is likely, he's described async code

    • @bradbradford8576
      @bradbradford8576 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +475

      I wonder when someone working at Minecraft is going to find out. Split screen with my kids is ridiculous if anyone is crafting. It freezes every time

    • @gendalfgray7889
      @gendalfgray7889 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +23

      UE already have that?

    • @greatbriton8425
      @greatbriton8425 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +49

      I'd be surprised if this was true.

    • @Unethical.FandubsGames
      @Unethical.FandubsGames 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +85

      @@greatbriton8425 Yeah it was definitely an exaggeration but he's right that it's not new.

  • @joeroeinski1107
    @joeroeinski1107 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +763

    Semaphores could also be ideal as fences can cause the CPU to stall waiting for GPU work to finish. Semaphores would allow for exclusive synchronization of GPU tasks ensuring the CPU is constantly writing commands and the GPU is constantly processing them. Great video nonetheless.

    • @oliverer3
      @oliverer3 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +20

      Love semaphores, very useful if a bit scary!

    • @Stoney3K
      @Stoney3K 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +44

      In real world implementations these are probably implemented as semaphores, because the transferring of data is being done in a background thread anyway. The busy-waiting done by a fence is probably done here for simplicity purposes because it makes the 'waiting' part easier to explain.

    • @joeroeinski1107
      @joeroeinski1107 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +14

      @@Stoney3K Yes. Transfers don't just run as a background thread, but DMA transfers over PCIe can be done completely async to the rest of the system (and GPUs often have dedicated transfer queues to accommodate this, allowing for ultra-fast async transfer from the CPU). Nowadays you can just generate some data yourself on the GPU though in compute, eliminating the need to transfer entirely and keeping everything local to VRAM.

    • @Stoney3K
      @Stoney3K 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      @@joeroeinski1107True if you consider transferring of things like textures and shaders from the CPU to the GPU. But most of the waiting is often caused by the game loading in or parsing new assets from disk, which make it noticeably slow because I/O is *much* slower than CPU/GPU/memory access.
      It's even more pronounced when the game is an online one and the assets have to be fetched from an offsite server.

    • @joeroeinski1107
      @joeroeinski1107 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@Stoney3K Absolutely, though with emerging technology such as DirectStorage this soon may not be an issue.

  • @stratos2
    @stratos2 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +535

    I just binged all of your optimisation videos. The metaphors are awesome and easy to follow, the code and graphics are clean, the voiceover is easy to understand. This is what I wish school/university was like. Instant subscribe, you have earned a place among my favorite TH-camrs. Thank you for your work.

    • @Vercidium
      @Vercidium  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +40

      Far out, thank you! I'm stoked you like them and hope they help!

    • @ArneChristianRosenfeldt
      @ArneChristianRosenfeldt 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      I can’t read the tiny font

    • @DaStuntChannel
      @DaStuntChannel 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      school/university should teach you how to come up with these ideas by yourself

    • @nicosoftnt
      @nicosoftnt 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@DaStuntChannel Universities teach you 15 years old techniques in a field that is always 5 years ahead and counting.

    • @DaStuntChannel
      @DaStuntChannel 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@nicosoftnt That as well

  • @duncathan_salt
    @duncathan_salt 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +104

    It's worth noting that for some games, the additional input delay might be considered unacceptable. Most games it won't matter but in those rare cases it may be necessary to explore alternatives

    • @markdmckenna
      @markdmckenna 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      I think this technique won't increase input delay. It effectively just leaves old geometry on screen until new geometry is available. At worst you'll get "pop ins" instead of stalls.

    • @X606
      @X606 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      @@markdmckennait it does add input delay, think of it this way: now you're shipping a whole frame with this old mesh instead of the new one, that might take 16ms or so, but what if 5ms into those 16ms the transfer completes? now you still have to wait for the full frame to be drawn before we can include the new mesh in the next frame. Whereas if we just stalled for those 5ms we'd only have to wait 5+16 ms instead of 16+16ms

    • @markdmckenna
      @markdmckenna 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      @@X606 Maybe a different definition of input delay here? IMO as long as we're providing "reasonably" up to date geometry for the user to interact with, there is no added input delay.

    • @Ghorda9
      @Ghorda9 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@markdmckenna instead you get more render latency.

    • @potato9832
      @potato9832 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@markdmckenna Yeah. Earlier thread wasn't making sense to me. Input processing is non-graphical, so dunno why delayed rendering would delay input processing unless you tied input processing to your draw() routine.
      Albeit which happens a lot in amateur games using generalized game engines, but I presume this topic is scoped to more advanced game programming techniques.

  • @SatisfiedOnion
    @SatisfiedOnion 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +216

    I love this man's food analogies as much as this guy loves his optimization.
    Amazing video, I'm so in love with the animations!

  • @goatmeal5241
    @goatmeal5241 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +82

    It really was worth buying this 16,000 fps monitor---this is the first video to really use it to its fullest, but boy is it glorious.

    • @waltonsimons12
      @waltonsimons12 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +28

      Waste of money. Nobody needs 16,000 fps. 12,000 is more than enough.

    • @AntiAntYT
      @AntiAntYT 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +14

      the eye doesn't see more than 4,000 fps

    • @nukesrus2663
      @nukesrus2663 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +36

      @@waltonsimons12 Trust me dude, once you've experienced 16,000 fps, 12,000 feels like looking at a slideshow.

    • @aqua-bery
      @aqua-bery 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      ​@@AntiAntYTthe eye sees up to 60fps. Everything above is still useful, because the world runs at ∞ FPS, so the closer your pc can be to that, the better it will ~feel~

    • @luviam0001
      @luviam0001 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

      @@aqua-bery Eyes can see much more than 60fps. The visual difference from 60fps to 120fps is quite noticeable as 120fps is just a lot smoother visually and your eyes can see that difference.

  • @Mint25pop
    @Mint25pop 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +86

    Videos like this are rare to find But It has to be my favorite type of video by far, making code run faster, better gaming experience, GPU goes vroom I love it!

    • @Vercidium
      @Vercidium  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      Thank you, more videos to come!

  • @Kw1h
    @Kw1h 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +78

    This is a highly optimized dev tutorial.
    Jokes aside I think you have a true talent for game dev and teaching.
    Subscribed.

  • @KitsumiTheFox
    @KitsumiTheFox 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +44

    This kind of sounds like double buffering, but for the geometry instead of the actual framebuffer. Very cool idea!

    • @Cara.314
      @Cara.314 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +19

      It's know as Asynchronous Buffer Update/Upload, nothing new.
      The underlying concept of decoupling data transfer from rendering to avoid stalling the graphics pipeline is fundamental to graphics programming and has been a consideration as long as there have been programmable GPUs and sophisticated graphics APIs. it's been a feature of both directx and ogl for decades at this point.

    • @MadHau5
      @MadHau5 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      That's exactly what I thought! Same basic principles as double buffering!

    • @FrankHarwald
      @FrankHarwald 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Asynchronous double buffering is used all over in software architecture - from network, i/o, file system, ipc, database, sound & graphics handling & more, in kernel, drivers, in plumbing layers & in user programs, from industrial automated real-time applications to interactive user-centered gui apps like browsers, games & more.

  • @bejoscha
    @bejoscha 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +16

    I'm not coding games and stumbled here by chance, but this is a really, really well done description which can be appreciated by anyone with at least a bit of coding experience. Thanks.

  • @lopodyr
    @lopodyr 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Lots of people seem to be mad at the fact that these optimizations are not groundbreaking and already exist in some engines. But as a game designer making solo projects on several engines, I'm super thankful for the amazing explanations of processes I would otherwise be unaware of.
    I love to see how the technologies we used are built from thousands of smart decisions like these.
    Also, good job and good luck on your engine project :D

    • @Vercidium
      @Vercidium  4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@lopodyr thank you for the kind words, I’m glad this video has helped!

  • @Candywolf949
    @Candywolf949 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    yooooo i love that not only did you make a cool game i enjoyed, but that you're sharing all the knowledge you learned from making it with everyone. Good luck dude! I hope you continue this, It's really interesting and I love it.

  • @knoetsch13
    @knoetsch13 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +16

    Now I'm hungry.

  • @starplatinum3305
    @starplatinum3305 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +87

    Bro i need more optimization videos this is amazing af

    • @Vercidium
      @Vercidium  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +21

      Working on it! Thank you

    • @chickennuggetman2593
      @chickennuggetman2593 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      ​@@VercidiumCan this work for terraria? If so, maybe a mod could be made for my dinky glorified potato with a screen..

    • @themourningwolf8926
      @themourningwolf8926 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Uhm, the best person to ask is the dev, I recomment going to the subreddit and asking Redigit and his crew if this is something they have toyed with or even considered. I'm sure he would be stoked to see some new ideas!@@chickennuggetman2593

  • @Wyrmver
    @Wyrmver 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +17

    the biggest thing this video taught me is
    optimization =/= fewer lines

    • @Kyrelel
      @Kyrelel 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      *fewer

    • @Wyrmver
      @Wyrmver 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@Kyrelel thanks

    • @nerdycatgamer
      @nerdycatgamer 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Usually the code with fewer lines is actually severely less optimized. Take a look at all the ""clean"" javascript code with a million abstractions and chained method calls. You have your fancy iterators when a simple for loop is literally 20x faster

    • @MrDoboz
      @MrDoboz หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      it depends. if your bottleneck is storage, which used to be true when we had floppies, fewer lines meant more content and thus a more complete experience, a better value overall

  • @zivmbs
    @zivmbs 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +45

    I really loved the video and the analogy. I think you should increase the size of the code and animations, because seeing them on mobile is kind of hard.
    Great video nonetheless!

    • @Vercidium
      @Vercidium  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +17

      Will do, thank you for the feedback and glad you liked the video!

  • @lucaspawprint1888
    @lucaspawprint1888 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +23

    The master chef has an infinite number of pans, but doesn't want to overwhelm his apprentices, so he keeps only the amount of pans necessary in the kitchen until a greater or lesser amount is needed.

    • @Vercidium
      @Vercidium  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      Haha excellent analogy

    • @angeldude101
      @angeldude101 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Well, maybe not _infinitely_ many pans. More like, only about 4 billion pans. And usually when the chef needs more, rather than just grabbing the amount needed, usually they'll just grab as many extra pans as they're already using. It wastes a bit more space in the kichen, but it saves on the amount of trips to fetch more pans a way that generally balances out well.

  • @dyllanmccreary688
    @dyllanmccreary688 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    something about this video made me super excited to watch, maybe the thumbnail/title.

  • @iminumst7827
    @iminumst7827 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    I had a similar issue in my 2D game made in Game Maker Studio. When it tried to render some high resolution sprites I would get those stutters. However, I found a very useful command "texture_prefetch" which as you can guess loads a texture group into VRAM memory even if it's not being drawn yet. And "texture flush" clears a group from VRAM. By being manually proactive about texture loading, I not only removed all the stutter, but I also cut level loading time down to under half a second.
    I'm pretty sure all engines have asynchronous buffered data loading / rendering, but I think some developers don't utilize it to it's full extend and just try to render a bunch of unloaded data at once. Your explanation is very good, and I hope it reminds other devs to think more carefully about asset loading.

  • @cookietheory
    @cookietheory 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    My favorite series on youtube, thank you for doing it!

    • @Vercidium
      @Vercidium  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Too kind! Thank you

  • @Zizaco
    @Zizaco 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +15

    "Explain double buffer like I'm five"
    Great video Vercidium!

  • @WartimeFriction
    @WartimeFriction 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I don't code yet but it is something that I find fascinating. I really enjoyed how you made this problem make sense even to me. Thanks for sharing

  • @SylooxD
    @SylooxD 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +16

    Great video and I am sure it will help me in the future 👍At the first moment I thought the sorting by swapping with the first element only works with 2 meshes but after thinking about it I realized it also works well with longer lists too if the transfer time is equal for every mesh. If not, then a circular array/ring buffer might be a better alternative to avoid rendering fast-to-transfer future meshes before slow-to-transfer past ones. That would cause the future mesh to render 2 frames while skipping the past one with your algorithm.

    • @Vercidium
      @Vercidium  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

      Excellent point you’re right, a ring buffer would be more appropriate here. Now you have me thinking: I should be removing the element and inserting it at the start, rather than swapping. You’re right, great pickup!
      I wrote a similar thing for a particle engine, which does skip over the slow-to-transfer ones to ensure the most up to date buffer is always being rendered (even if it means an entire frames worth of data is skipped), i.e. if the cpu runs faster than the GPU and is writing to 2 buffers each frame, every 2nd buffer will never make it to the screen

    • @stratos2
      @stratos2 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      ​@@VercidiumI would love to see a video where you take all the improvement ideas from the comments and try to apply them and see how they do.

  • @SigmaSixSoftware
    @SigmaSixSoftware 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    This guy just added Promises to a game engine

    • @Vercidium
      @Vercidium  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Best comment hahaha

  • @Jmcgee1125
    @Jmcgee1125 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Fantastic overview. Right to the point and thorough enough to show off everything without getting bogged down in the details.

  • @Nevict
    @Nevict 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +62

    I like how you're showing alternatives to the "just add more cores/memory" mentality.

    • @kyraxx
      @kyraxx 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +14

      Won't these extra copy of the mesh consume more memory? I suspect this is a compromise.
      Here the mesh is extremely simple so it doesn't need much memory.
      On a more complex mesh this could require you to "just add memory".

    • @qvindicator
      @qvindicator 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

      @@kyraxx The extra threads would require more cores to be more efficient as well. This solution is literally "just add more cores/memory", but it works.

    • @internet5076
      @internet5076 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Just one more

  • @protossinator
    @protossinator 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    If only you had posted this video a few months sooner! I recently bought a new pc, and repeatedly sent it back to the company since I was experiencing weird stutters when meshes were loaded / updated in my games. I eventually boiled it down to a game engine issue myself, but I'm so glad that this video confirmed that. No money wasted on a broken machine :).

  • @Blademaster162
    @Blademaster162 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Great video, loved all the animations. Even as someone who isn't particularly experienced in coding I feel like I understood everything!

  • @jiegao3591
    @jiegao3591 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    There's actually an optimization mod for Minecraft that more or less does this where the renderer will keep using an older mesh until the new ones are ready. You did a nice job with the analogies!

    • @lancestryker
      @lancestryker 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      What's it called?

    • @nindew21Laughyourassoff
      @nindew21Laughyourassoff 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      What is it called?

    • @McHorsesCreations
      @McHorsesCreations 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@nindew21Laughyourassoffit’s either Sodium or Nvidium, there is also a mod Distant Horizons on the relevant topic

  • @markonfilms
    @markonfilms 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    This is awesome! Managing stuff like this is still a real challenge and this is a great solution. Thank you for the great easy to understand explanation too!

  • @inferno3197
    @inferno3197 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +86

    You lost me at burger

  • @VicJang
    @VicJang 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    The first part also explains why some fast food drive thru allocate an employee taking orders instead of letting customers order at the fixed kiosk.

  • @Cara.314
    @Cara.314 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Long freezes in modern games can be attributed to a variety of factors, often relating to resource-intensive operations or inefficiencies in handling game assets and rendering. Here are some of the common causes:
    Asset Loading: When games load large assets (like textures, models, or sound files) from the disk into memory, it can cause a noticeable freeze, especially if the game is not using asynchronous loading techniques.
    Garbage Collection: In games developed with languages that have automatic memory management (like Java or C#), garbage collection can sometimes cause freezes or stutters. This happens when the garbage collector runs to free up memory, temporarily halting other processes.
    CPU/GPU Synchronization Issues: If the CPU is waiting for the GPU to finish rendering (a scenario known as a GPU bottleneck), or vice versa (CPU bottleneck), it can result in freezes. Efficient parallel processing and synchronization are crucial to avoid such stalls. (the one this video covers part of, and far from the only possible cause)
    Inefficient Resource Management: Poorly managed resources, such as repeatedly loading and unloading the same assets, can lead to performance issues and freezes.
    Complex Calculations or Scripts: Intensive computations, like complex AI calculations, physics simulations, or extensive world updates, can cause freezes if they are not efficiently managed or offloaded to separate threads.
    Network Latency or Hiccups: For multiplayer games, network issues can cause freezes or lag if the game's state is tightly coupled with the timely receipt of network packets.
    Driver or Hardware Issues: Sometimes, the problem may lie outside the game itself, such as outdated or buggy graphics drivers, or hardware that is overheating or malfunctioning.

    • @cakesteak
      @cakesteak 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      chatgpt has entered the chat

  • @surr3ald3sign
    @surr3ald3sign 3 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    The infographic of the CPU handing off the packet to the GPU while demanding it render it over and over made me chuckle

  • @ImNotGam
    @ImNotGam 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    Got it, I just need enough memory for 15 thousand meshes.

    • @Vercidium
      @Vercidium  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Hahaha noooo

  • @castlecodersltd
    @castlecodersltd 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Thanks for this, I'm really enjoying watching your videos. When I come to optimizing I'll be circling back to make sure I've covered the things your have. All the best 🙂

  • @gavinmorton7682
    @gavinmorton7682 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

    Hey small feedback: could you please zoom in when displaying code? Small screens cant see the logic you're trying to showcase (even if the exact text doesn't matter). Awesome video as always❤️

  • @duytdl
    @duytdl 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Very humble explanation style for laymen to understand. Kudos!

  • @ThatNiceDutchGuy
    @ThatNiceDutchGuy 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Wow, I really like that underlaying background simulation at 1:51 I'm trying building something similar myself using Openprocessing but this looks like some great end result! Thanks for the inspiration.

  • @tgirlshark
    @tgirlshark 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    this is what wgpu does behind the scenes, I love wgpu

    • @tgirlshark
      @tgirlshark 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      also I love your channel, content like yours is rare, unique and very informative, I learn a lot with every Video, optimizing things to the limit is addicting hehe

  • @cooperlittlehales6268
    @cooperlittlehales6268 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Feel like I've seen a couple of these coding youtube channels run by fellow Aussies. Makes me happy knowing we're doing our part for the world.

  • @soviut303
    @soviut303 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Really excellent explanation for an issue a lot of players, and even developers, incorrectly associate with optimization. Also, I noticed your mic is picking up a lot of room reverb. A cheap mic shroud behind the mic will help a lot. The poor man's shroud is a closet full of clothes with the mic partially inside. If you can't fix it at the mic, try a "de-room" or "de-reverb" plugin. Your visuals are fantastic, your audio can be just as good without much more effort.

    • @Vercidium
      @Vercidium  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I can't hear the reverb myself but I did notice an echo when standing next to a wall and recording. I recorded while standing in the center of my room instead, and I'll try a shroud too thank you for the recommendation :)

    • @soviut303
      @soviut303 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@Vercidium Cool, glad I could help. I noticed you've got a demo video about raytraced audio. Maybe this is an opportunity to do a game engine video about it to test your audio setup.

  • @miigon9117
    @miigon9117 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Why this works: modern GPU has a lot of bandwidth but with a high latency to transfer data from main memory to gpu.(a lot of car lanes but long way to drive). If we could have 0 latency then we wouldn't need this because any transfer would be finished very quickly (high likelihood of finishing transfer before being drawn). Instead of doing nothing and waiting for the transfer to complete, we effectively stack multiple extra transfers for future frames within the first transfer's wait time (we can do this because we have a lot of bandwidth. aka we are sending more trucks on different car lanes simultaneously instead of waiting for the first one to come back and then send it out again). This is a form of parallelism and this idea of "doing other things or doing more of the same thing while waiting for the first one to finish" is everywhere in both cpu and gpu programming and let's you make more efficient(full) use of your hardware.

  • @AlucardNoir
    @AlucardNoir 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +20

    Isnt this just asyncronous compute?

  • @diggoran
    @diggoran 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I’m trying to understand how the thumbnail relates to the video, but I guess that’s the point, to make it hard to know what will be talked about without watching.

    • @jamomancer
      @jamomancer 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      that's clickbait for ya

  • @blocc_nova746
    @blocc_nova746 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +41

    This man spent 4 years of his life fixing the little freezes you get every once in a while. Real dedication!

    • @Cara.314
      @Cara.314 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +14

      he didnt though, most good engines already do this sort of thing. though it is up to devs to properly use the engines systems to take advantage. you could easily circumvent them.
      Also, this is only 1 possible cause of freezes.
      It's known as Asynchronous Buffer Updates/Uploads.

  • @AiOinc1
    @AiOinc1 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    4 decades ago we called this double buffering and it was pretty normal.

  • @aljazbrilj1698
    @aljazbrilj1698 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Very good, thank you for informing the community

  • @zeyzer3405
    @zeyzer3405 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    My god it's so hight quality. I subscribe immediately!

  • @filiformis
    @filiformis 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Reminds me of a swap chain, only for geometry instead of fully rendered frames. Very cool!

    • @noxagonal
      @noxagonal 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Honestly, that's the future of everything nowadays, almost everything needs to be pipelined, the problem is that the more you pipeline, the more (relative) lag it introduces. Personally I settled for 2 mesh buffers for dynamic meshes, block frame if we catch up and the mesh isn't fully sent yet, though I might change this to non-blocking later.
      I'm also thinking which mesh data actually needs to be updated anyways. UVs might not need to be re-uploaded to the GPU, it's mostly just the coordinates and vertex normals. So I'm thinking of splitting the vertex into 2 buffers, one for coordinates and normals, and the rest into another struct. This way the transfer size should be smaller and shouldn't cause many issues. This saves space on the VRAM, allows custom attributes. Cache misses are very likely to happen though so it needs to be measured... Lots of options to explore. :)

  • @tiredeyezonme
    @tiredeyezonme 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    the major props for making my brain understand things i wouldnt have fathomed even trying to understand before

  • @KikoBean
    @KikoBean 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I know nothing about code. thank you for making something im still engrossed in despite not knowing anything

  • @budgetarms
    @budgetarms 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +24

    That is not really seen as a real optimization, more like a technique that (as you said) has been done.
    It is really interesting to see your approach compared to approaches game studio's make.
    A GDC talk that is on a technical level really interesting is this one "Marvel's Spider-Man: A Technical Postmortem".
    I also want to ask a question about your previous video, you mention that indeed triangle strip is way faster than triangle list.
    The problem that I seem to face, is that there are no tools, as far as I know of that convert triangle list to triangle strip.
    This is not a problem when you make all other models yourself and create a script that does it for you.
    But how did you do it in your previous video?

    • @Vercidium
      @Vercidium  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      Absolutely, technically this is a timing issue but since it affects game performance, it falls under the broader ‘optimisation’ category
      For complex models like characters, converting them into triangle strips isn’t easy. Modern renderers will use an index buffer to help, where the model is broken down into triangle strips of the same length (e.g. 3 triangles) and then a GL_PRIMITIVE_RESTART is set to tell the shader to start a new triangle strip every 3 triangles (for example)
      There will still be some vertices that hold the same data but any reduction in memory is a performance win

    • @budgetarms
      @budgetarms 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      ​@@Vercidium I wish DirectX had something like that.
      It's really interesting how other API's do specific things.

    • @Vercidium
      @Vercidium  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      ⁠@@budgetarms looks like DirectX 10 has this feature, check out the ‘Generating Multiple Strips’ section
      learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/direct3d11/d3d10-graphics-programming-guide-primitive-topologies

    • @budgetarms
      @budgetarms 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@Vercidium Thanks, I am looking into it, just wondering do you have a discord server (or is something like that in the works)?

    • @budgetarms
      @budgetarms 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@Vercidium Just wondering, how do you do networking on your game, do you use an external OpenGL library for that or what?

  • @JustfknBill
    @JustfknBill 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Bruv you are the single most valuable resource I have as an indie dev. My games will run buttery smooth because of you and those like you. I've had these stories in mind since i was a child and didn't have the tools or skills to do them right. But with people like you and tools like blender and unreal, I will bring some really fun stuff! For the love of gaming!

    • @Vercidium
      @Vercidium  7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Thanks so much! I’m glad to help

    • @JustfknBill
      @JustfknBill 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@Vercidium When I grow my company and add to it, you're definitely hired if you want it. I'll respond in the future with a list of works & the studio name.

  • @_nwL
    @_nwL 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    Great video, I learned a lot! Small comment for future endeavors: watching this on mobile was difficult because I assume you optimized the text size for fullscreen desktop viewing. Other than that, I loved it!

    • @Vercidium
      @Vercidium  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      I’ll increase the font size in the next video, thank you!

  • @winumoritribe8425
    @winumoritribe8425 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Holy shit, this is spectacular! It's amazing how much more you can do with that one step further.

  • @sclexz
    @sclexz 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    didn't realize you were sector's edge dev until the end!

    • @Vercidium
      @Vercidium  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Haha hey there! What gave it away?

  • @someprick7705
    @someprick7705 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    0:20 Wendy’s thanks you for the inspiration for lunch lol.

    • @Vercidium
      @Vercidium  10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Haha I love it

  • @DuniC0
    @DuniC0 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    This is the first time I hear the recommendation of using a list instead of an array for a performance boost!
    I imagine that the list is actually an dynamic array under the hood.
    The performance boost of caching contiguous data in memory is just way over the benefit you can get from delegating freeing some memory of a linked list to the garbage collector.

  • @mz_eth
    @mz_eth 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Love the analogies and especially the visuals, you have such a knack for presenting problems in an easy to understand light! Great vid :)

    • @Vercidium
      @Vercidium  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Thank you, that means a lot!

  • @movax20h
    @movax20h 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    It is called pipelining. Use in many places, not just games / real time graphics.
    Nice video, not everbody knows about it in graphics world.

  • @nguyenhoangminhtrung2779
    @nguyenhoangminhtrung2779 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

    My guy explains double buffer so my 5 year-olds can actually understand it, kudos to you!

    • @Some-q1
      @Some-q1 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      as I 5 year old I can confirm

  • @starkindler1134
    @starkindler1134 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Man, I was watching through this and I looked at your name and was like "Huh, his name reminds me of the developer of Sector's Edge." Then a moment later: "Wait... that is really similar..." And then I checked and you actually were the dev for Sector's edge lol. Cool! Man I miss that game, it was my favourite fps! I can't wait for your next project!

    • @Vercidium
      @Vercidium  4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Thank you! I miss it too, hoping to revisit it again some day

  • @CaptainUltimaFTW
    @CaptainUltimaFTW 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Stuff like this is why i love graphics engineering, the interwoven understanding of what the hardware does and how you can get it to do what you want it to in the most efficient manner is just fun. Cool stuff!

    • @Vercidium
      @Vercidium  10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Absolutely, it is a very rewarding kind of programming

  • @digitalasylum369
    @digitalasylum369 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Great job breaking down such a complex concept to an easily digestible narrative.

  • @jan.melcher
    @jan.melcher 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

    Wouldn't there be a chance that each new mesh clogs up the transfer pipeline even more, so you would end up with drawing really old meshes at some point?

  • @bfg_pz2213
    @bfg_pz2213 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    This video has made me realize that I still don't understand coding at all

  • @NoName-1337
    @NoName-1337 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    From now on, my toaster can run crysis.

  • @masheen_
    @masheen_ 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    This presentation is beautiful, would love to know what you used! Also I learned a ton about a game engine!! Thanks/subbed!

    • @Vercidium
      @Vercidium  2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@masheen_ thank you so much, glad to hear!

    • @Vercidium
      @Vercidium  2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@masheen_ it’s all animated in engine and screen recorded, then edited together in Davinci Resolve
      I use OpenGL for the 3D animations, and SkiaSharp and RichTextKit for 2D animations

    • @masheen_
      @masheen_ 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@Vercidium Hmm never thought of animations in engine for ui charts 🫠. Thanks so much!!!

    • @Vercidium
      @Vercidium  2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@masheen_ no worries :)
      It’s purely because controlling the animations in code is easier for me. I’m sure these animations would look a lot nicer in programs like After Effects

  • @ns2qhd520
    @ns2qhd520 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Hey love the video man but the code font is a little small for a pc and almost microscopic for my phone. The animations and everything are also amazing but if you could enlarge the code it’d make the content more accessible.

    • @Vercidium
      @Vercidium  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Will do for the next video, thank you for the feedback!

  • @dmc5630
    @dmc5630 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Changing the thumbnail in the name of optimisation on a video about optimisation is pure optimisation #ISawTheBurger

    • @Vercidium
      @Vercidium  10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Haha yep I design a few and then test one each day. I think this thumbnail+title is the one though

  • @re_nforce
    @re_nforce 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Everything before 2:57 was basically explaining double buffering right?

  • @xaalcarlsonanimations1539
    @xaalcarlsonanimations1539 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    im not really doing anything in game development these days but this tutorial was so well handled and impressive that you earned a new sub. thanks for that vid lol

    • @Vercidium
      @Vercidium  10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Thank you! It took a while to make

  • @fuzzy-02
    @fuzzy-02 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Would sorting still be viable if the number of meshes is very big?
    Also, I loved this video. I never even realized this. Or rather, I knew of it but never was consciously aware of it while coding

    • @Vercidium
      @Vercidium  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      For heaps of meshes it would get pretty slow, something like a ring buffer would be much better. Thank you!

  • @mike22273
    @mike22273 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I love how every metaphor is a pub. “How does quantum computing work?” “Well it’s like a pub with a quantum pan” 😂

  • @Dumb_Daft_Dim_Lafoole
    @Dumb_Daft_Dim_Lafoole 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    youtuber with 30k subs vs multimillion game companies

  • @ichbinschwul187
    @ichbinschwul187 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    incredibly well edited, paced and informative video

  • @doruvidejesus4508
    @doruvidejesus4508 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Wow this is incredible, those this also work in Unreal Engine 5?

    • @Vercidium
      @Vercidium  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      It should, I was talking to a Unity dev about how models are loaded behind the scenes onto the GPU, and it seems like there’s a few tricks you can do with offscreen rendering and preloading (not sure these terms are right) so you can know when a model is actually sent to the GPU, before you try to render it
      If Unity has these features I’d be surprised if Unreal didn’t! It’s a pretty important feature I reckon

  • @StewartWild
    @StewartWild 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    This video is epic. Liked, subscribed. I can't wait to watch your other ones, you have a great mind for being able to teach and explain concepts.

  • @shadow50011
    @shadow50011 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Explaining optimization to an American: "So Imagine a burger..."

  • @akhileshchandorkar1807
    @akhileshchandorkar1807 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    This is an epic video man, really liked the way you showcased your iterative design methodology to refine the problem into smaller chunks and solved them one at a time.

    • @Vercidium
      @Vercidium  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Thank you, I’m not a teacher by any means but I’m learning so much creating these videos. Trying to find the best way to explain these things takes a while and I always resort back to food analogies haha

    • @akhileshchandorkar1807
      @akhileshchandorkar1807 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@VercidiumHonestly, its still really cool that you're able to make parallels with these kinds of arguments. Oftentimes, when I'm trying to explain my code using analogies, they end up just becoming warped, and all of a sudden you have a taxi driver talking about repairing a plane or something :/

    • @Vercidium
      @Vercidium  10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@akhileshchandorkar1807 hahaha I know what you mean. I originally was talking about a restaurant with tables, plus a waiter and a chef, but it all got too complex. Simplifying it down to a chef and their pans worked much better. Takes a lot of iteration and feedback before I’m happy posting it here

  • @janmagtoast
    @janmagtoast 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

    Fun fact: Having a taste of this source code is cheaper than having a taste of an actual burger (at least where I live)

  • @bowriing
    @bowriing 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I hope more game devs from indie to AAA take into account stuttering more, people seem to only be phased by FPS and are completely uneducated regarding frametime and how a consistent frametime is more important than FPS the majority of the time.

  • @toxiccan175
    @toxiccan175 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    I’m curious: do you ever look at Minecraft optimization mods to get ideas of how to make your own voxel game engine better? People have tried many methods and there’s a lot of source code out there

    • @Vercidium
      @Vercidium  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I haven’t but that’s a good idea, would be interesting to have a look through their source code to see what OpenGL tricks they’re using

    • @toxiccan175
      @toxiccan175 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@Vercidium Check out Sodium and related projects. They rewrote rendering in Minecraft to work with OpenGL and made it really efficient. There are related projects and extension type mods that are easy to find as well.

    • @Vercidium
      @Vercidium  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@toxiccan175 awesome thank you, will do!

    • @jcm2606
      @jcm2606 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      @@toxiccan175 Minecraft has used OpenGL since the beginning, Sodium and the like just rewrote core parts of the renderer to use newer OpenGL features and be generally more efficient with memory and GPU usage.

    • @tinoesroho
      @tinoesroho 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@jcm2606 i've heard mumbles about the sodium sub-mod, nvidium. what's up with that?

  • @alyasVictorio
    @alyasVictorio 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Imagine a UE5.3 game with all these 3 render feature combined: Nanite, Parallax mapping, and of course, the UE5 plugin remake of this render feature you created from your game engine. Now I (and we too) will had higher prediction about what games looks like in future if we had these 3 🤤.

  • @ChamplooMusashi
    @ChamplooMusashi 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Should you really be using a list? Wouldn't a pool be much preferable if we're considering optimization?

    • @SimonBuchanNz
      @SimonBuchanNz 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      A pool is a list though? (Not all lists are linked lists: this looks like C# where List is a dynamic array (like std::vector, ArrayList, Vec, etc)

    • @Vercidium
      @Vercidium  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      For a tiny amount of items a list is fine, but if we had a global list of all meshes in the scene then 100% should not use a list. A ring buffer that uses an array under the hood would be much better

  • @anotherclearchannel
    @anotherclearchannel 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Just wow! I am more than impressed with your communication and teaching skills (instant sub because of these traits alone). 🙏🏾 To say that I am so excited to consume your content is an understatement. 😁 I look forward to discovering and learning many new things alongside you. Please be encouraged and Thank You for such amazing content.

    • @Vercidium
      @Vercidium  10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      You are too kind, thank you very much!

  • @Sebosek.
    @Sebosek. 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    Bro spend 6 years to create a Game Engine just to told us, What a hero!

  • @theMooly
    @theMooly 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I hope more of these topic of videos will be known in the near future, our amateurs and semi-pro (or soon pro) game devs who trained themselves in open source, must benefits from it

  • @silicalnz
    @silicalnz 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    Just a note. The code you show is a very tiny font size. It was difficult for me to read.

  • @coolbrotherf127
    @coolbrotherf127 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I'm so glad TH-cam randomly showed this to me. Really cool stuff.

  • @DerMarkus1982
    @DerMarkus1982 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Congratulations! You've basically (re-)invented Double/Triple Buffering! 😂
    JK lol, that's an *excellent* explanation of the inner workings of the graphics pipeline in a video game / really *any* interactive piece of software with complex video output!

  • @BlueAndy_
    @BlueAndy_ 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Damn explained in not even 5 minutes. Good video, keep up the great work!

  • @Lopeirada
    @Lopeirada 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Does this apply to game engine devs, or also to game devs that use game engines like unreal or unity?

    • @Vercidium
      @Vercidium  10 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Game engine devs 100%. Game engines should take care of this but I’ve heard of some devs talking about stuttering because their models weren’t preloaded/off-screen-rendered (not sure if these terms are right) before they tried rendering them onto the screen

  • @Lampe2020
    @Lampe2020 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    When I saw the title I had to immediately think of why I created my own website. There was a redirection page on our school's IServ server, from _domain/_ to _domain/iserv_ . That redirection page was just a black line of text on white background, saying you're getting redirected. But I wanted to have a link there, like "Click here if you don't get redirected". So I created my own website to have a better redirection page. And still, my website is my JS learning and testing ground, which is why my website breaks every now and then just to suddenly work again after a few seconds to minutes.