Not sure what do with these thoughts. I thought Babylon was already overturned, but what’s being discussed is challenging and seems accurate. I always appreciate the pushing into new ideas, loved the conversation. Joel is a super chill steady thoughtful guy. Love his additions!!
I was looking for the video with Alan Hirsch as a guest so my comment mostly pertain to that episode. As Taylor mentioned about that video coming across as a downer....it surely did. The book Brave Cities was written in such an upbeat manner but it seems like these gray pages tend to spiral downward. Sure we know were dealing with Babylon and evil forces but Jesus told us to be of good cheer. Progress is being made and He coming back for a church without spot or wrinkle. Alan mentioned that well be poorer...no we won't. The missional movement is making great in roads to building this glorious church. Andrew Wommack prophesied that were actually in the 3rd Great Awakening. Babylon is no match for the kingdom of God. Too much is being made of it here in these discussions. There's too much analysis paralysis. Get some traction with Brave Cities and promote the book. These videos are getting nothing. Too much navel contemplating and if it continues your efforts to create brave cities will be thwarted. Don't be weary in well doing and don't despise the days of small beginnings. Looking for suffering as Hugh promotes is off. Plenty of suffering will come our way without us looking for it. We should look for victory over Babylon and evil. Yes we will suffer persecution but the goal isn't to stay in it and gravel. Its to overcome; to be an overcomer.
Susan, first of all we are grateful that you have been listening in and reading the book. We pray that it’s been valuable to you. As far as the Alan Hirsch episode is concerned, that is still not posted publicly. It seems that you were somehow able to get a preview of it on an unlisted video. For those reading along here in the comments, stay tuned for that episode as it has not been publicly released yet. Susan, I am sorry to hear that you find our conversations to ‘spiral downward.’ We are doing our best to have honest and authentic conversations about what we see in the landscapes that we are building in. Based on your references like Wommack, Johnson, and Wallnau, it is not surprising that we might disagree. You should know, if it is not clear from our conversations, that we would consider many of those voices distinct from the way of Jesus and often functioning as obstacles to the coming of the Kingdom. We are really enjoying this journey and happy that there are others that want to sniff around with us but are well aware that this isn’t gonna be for everyone. We hope you continue to find some value in our conversations and totally understand if you would rather flip over to Wallnau’s podcast talking about Why America Must Elect a Wartime President. We are not trying to convince anyone of anything but I can assure you, Grey Pages will not be the place you come to scratch that particular itch.
@@JohnnyProduce59 Thanks for your kind reply. For persons of an open mind I'm surprised that you would lump "Wommack, Johnson and Wallnau" into a blanket judgement. Not missionally minded in my estimation. Were suppose to be interactive with all brothers and sisters in the faith. What in particular do you disagree with regarding these brothers? You used "we" in your reply. Are you the spokesperson for Hugh and Taylor or just yourself. I'm surprised that they are not interacting with the video also. Again, not missionally minded; just more of a one-sided teaching as much of the church does. I will familiarize myself with the new video that Lance made about electing Trump. Did you actually watch the video or just judge it by its title? However I did reference Lance referring to Trump as a Cyrus type. See this video. th-cam.com/video/44cVqi8eNgU/w-d-xo.html Nonetheless, I understand that you have a certain doctrine and are not open to consider the voices of the other teachers and prophets I mentioned. I've found my way to consider the missional message to dovetail with many of their viewpoints. Thanks again...I'll continue to tune in to future presentations and see where the discussion goes.
@@susanthroop1279 I am no spokesperson at all. I simply used 'we' as I felt confident that I know my brothers. I did watch the videos and the last thing I want to do is turn the comments section into some kind of a debate. I think the best way to explain is to simply say we are having an entirely different conversation. There is a diversity among the body and God definitely uses His people both inside and outside of the systems. We are pretty clearly outside the system builders. We made pretty clear in our conversations about Babylon that we are not trying to play that game (power, politics, etc). It is an Other Kingdom entirely that long for. I should also say that we chose the name grey pages as a play on white papers. White papers are typically publications that communicate some clear position or finding/conclusions. We chose grey because the reality is, we don't know, we are not sure, and we are just honestly searching and seeking together. What you hear in these shows is real time exploration. There is a quote from Moltmann that comes to mind that I think might illustrate the conviction that leads to having what I believe to be an entirely different kind of conversation than the Wallnaus of the world. (You are right BTW, i do not want to dismiss, cast judgement, or even be know by what I am against, so please forgive me.) Moltmann wrote "We believe this Christ crucified to be the representative of God on earth, and so we see the glory of God in the face of the man who was executed on the gallows. Likewise, it is a glory found in the faces of the sick, the poor, the dying, and the marginalized. The freedom of God comes to earth not through crowns- that is to say, through the struggle for power- but through love and solidarity with the powerless." I hope this is at least somewhat helpful in explaining, at least where I am coming from. Thank you so much for engaging
@@JohnnyProduce59 Thank you...I appreciate are more explicit explanation of your stance. However I might suggest in your discussion and persons that reply to swing more to their side and seek to understand where they are coming from. Yes...I agree we are to go to the highways and byways and compel them to come in. Were not respecters of persons but we as believers don't go in weakness, we go in power. "Behold I give you power to tread on serpants and scorpions and none of these by any means will harm you. If I may suggest, leave the missional echo chamber and consider teachings of others. Sometimes the missional movement just becomes another denomination so to speak. It has its own set of doctrines and biases and fails to looks at all members fo the body of Christ. Alan Hirsch suggests a piece of the MDNA of the body as Liminality. So in reference to this back and forth we have going as a debate, I see it more of a peaceful discussion. An iron shapens iron moment. Taylor mentions that a desire of his is to see the rest of the church listening to us as missional people. Perhaps we need to turn the tables and listen to them also. Its easy to get an "holier than thou" attitude in the missional movement and think we have the answers. All the body has the answers, corporately. Paul says many "sleep" (die) because they do not discern the body of Christ. I believe this discernment that Paul is speaking of is no only discerning the healing that Jesus purchased in His atonement but not discerning the various members of the body also. We give deference to other members over ourselves. For you to limit your understanding to the few in your echo chamber, you do yourself a disservice. Although I'm primarily a missional gal, I also see understanding in the Word of Faith movement, the Charismatic/Pentecostal movement. The Egalitarian/Complementarian discussion. The Brethren movement, the Moravian movement. I've learned to think for myself and not let a preacher be an office but an elder brethren that I need to test and be as a good Berean to see if what he or she is saying is of the Lord. Thanks again.
Not sure what do with these thoughts. I thought Babylon was already overturned, but what’s being discussed is challenging and seems accurate. I always appreciate the pushing into new ideas, loved the conversation. Joel is a super chill steady thoughtful guy. Love his additions!!
I was looking for the video with Alan Hirsch as a guest so my comment mostly pertain to that episode. As Taylor mentioned about that video coming across as a downer....it surely did. The book Brave Cities was written in such an upbeat manner but it seems like these gray pages tend to spiral downward. Sure we know were dealing with Babylon and evil forces but Jesus told us to be of good cheer. Progress is being made and He coming back for a church without spot or wrinkle. Alan mentioned that well be poorer...no we won't. The missional movement is making great in roads to building this glorious church. Andrew Wommack prophesied that were actually in the 3rd Great Awakening. Babylon is no match for the kingdom of God. Too much is being made of it here in these discussions. There's too much analysis paralysis.
Get some traction with Brave Cities and promote the book. These videos are getting nothing. Too much navel contemplating and if it continues your efforts to create brave cities will be thwarted. Don't be weary in well doing and don't despise the days of small beginnings. Looking for suffering as Hugh promotes is off. Plenty of suffering will come our way without us looking for it. We should look for victory over Babylon and evil. Yes we will suffer persecution but the goal isn't to stay in it and gravel. Its to overcome; to be an overcomer.
Susan, first of all we are grateful that you have been listening in and reading the book. We pray that it’s been valuable to you. As far as the Alan Hirsch episode is concerned, that is still not posted publicly. It seems that you were somehow able to get a preview of it on an unlisted video.
For those reading along here in the comments, stay tuned for that episode as it has not been publicly released yet.
Susan, I am sorry to hear that you find our conversations to ‘spiral downward.’ We are doing our best to have honest and authentic conversations about what we see in the landscapes that we are building in. Based on your references like Wommack, Johnson, and Wallnau, it is not surprising that we might disagree. You should know, if it is not clear from our conversations, that we would consider many of those voices distinct from the way of Jesus and often functioning as obstacles to the coming of the Kingdom. We are really enjoying this journey and happy that there are others that want to sniff around with us but are well aware that this isn’t gonna be for everyone. We hope you continue to find some value in our conversations and totally understand if you would rather flip over to Wallnau’s podcast talking about Why America Must Elect a Wartime President. We are not trying to convince anyone of anything but I can assure you, Grey Pages will not be the place you come to scratch that particular itch.
@@JohnnyProduce59 Thanks for your kind reply. For persons of an open mind I'm surprised that you would lump "Wommack, Johnson and Wallnau" into a blanket judgement. Not missionally minded in my estimation. Were suppose to be interactive with all brothers and sisters in the faith. What in particular do you disagree with regarding these brothers?
You used "we" in your reply. Are you the spokesperson for Hugh and Taylor or just yourself. I'm surprised that they are not interacting with the video also. Again, not missionally minded; just more of a one-sided teaching as much of the church does. I will familiarize myself with the new video that Lance made about electing Trump. Did you actually watch the video or just judge it by its title? However I did reference Lance referring to Trump as a Cyrus type. See this video.
th-cam.com/video/44cVqi8eNgU/w-d-xo.html
Nonetheless, I understand that you have a certain doctrine and are not open to consider the voices of the other teachers and prophets I mentioned. I've found my way to consider the missional message to dovetail with many of their viewpoints. Thanks again...I'll continue to tune in to future presentations and see where the discussion goes.
@@susanthroop1279 I am no spokesperson at all. I simply used 'we' as I felt confident that I know my brothers. I did watch the videos and the last thing I want to do is turn the comments section into some kind of a debate. I think the best way to explain is to simply say we are having an entirely different conversation. There is a diversity among the body and God definitely uses His people both inside and outside of the systems. We are pretty clearly outside the system builders. We made pretty clear in our conversations about Babylon that we are not trying to play that game (power, politics, etc). It is an Other Kingdom entirely that long for. I should also say that we chose the name grey pages as a play on white papers. White papers are typically publications that communicate some clear position or finding/conclusions. We chose grey because the reality is, we don't know, we are not sure, and we are just honestly searching and seeking together. What you hear in these shows is real time exploration. There is a quote from Moltmann that comes to mind that I think might illustrate the conviction that leads to having what I believe to be an entirely different kind of conversation than the Wallnaus of the world. (You are right BTW, i do not want to dismiss, cast judgement, or even be know by what I am against, so please forgive me.) Moltmann wrote "We believe this Christ crucified to be the representative of God on earth, and so we see the glory of God in the face of the man who was executed on the gallows. Likewise, it is a glory found in the faces of the sick, the poor, the dying, and the marginalized. The freedom of God comes to earth not through crowns- that is to say, through the struggle for power- but through love and solidarity with the powerless." I hope this is at least somewhat helpful in explaining, at least where I am coming from. Thank you so much for engaging
@@JohnnyProduce59 Thank you...I appreciate are more explicit explanation of your stance. However I might suggest in your discussion and persons that reply to swing more to their side and seek to understand where they are coming from. Yes...I agree we are to go to the highways and byways and compel them to come in. Were not respecters of persons but we as believers don't go in weakness, we go in power. "Behold I give you power to tread on serpants and scorpions and none of these by any means will harm you.
If I may suggest, leave the missional echo chamber and consider teachings of others. Sometimes the missional movement just becomes another denomination so to speak. It has its own set of doctrines and biases and fails to looks at all members fo the body of
Christ.
Alan Hirsch suggests a piece of the MDNA of the body as Liminality. So in reference to this back and forth we have going as a debate, I see it more of a peaceful discussion. An iron shapens iron moment. Taylor mentions that a desire of his is to see the rest of the church listening to us as missional people. Perhaps we need to turn the tables and listen to them also. Its easy to get an "holier than thou" attitude in the missional movement and think we have the answers. All the body has the answers, corporately. Paul says many "sleep" (die) because they do not discern the body of Christ. I believe this discernment that Paul is speaking of is no only discerning the healing that Jesus purchased in His atonement but not discerning the various members of the body also. We give deference to other members over ourselves. For you to limit your understanding to the few in your echo chamber, you do yourself a disservice. Although I'm primarily a missional gal, I also see understanding in the Word of Faith movement, the Charismatic/Pentecostal movement. The Egalitarian/Complementarian discussion. The Brethren movement, the Moravian movement. I've learned to think for myself and not let a preacher be an office but an elder brethren that I need to test and be as a good Berean to see if what he or she is saying is of the Lord. Thanks again.