My Father was born in 1900. He slept with a gun under the pillow. Both he and his brother worked at Jacobs Factory. One on nights and one on days. They rotated sleeping in the same big bed. My Dad’s brother came across the gun and was outraged. So, my Dad fought in the war…. On my Mother’s side, my Great Uncle was Sean Treacy and I have an abiding love for this beautiful Uncle that I never even met. As Dan Breen said, Irish People Were Born Fighting {With A Fighting Spirit}! Thank you all so much for this wonderful video. Particular love to those whose memories are so vivid and who lived through the terrible rampages of the English and of The Black & Tans. ❤❤❤ “Come out ye Black & Tans, Come out and fight me like a man” ……..
Greetings to all my Gael people in Ireland from a Gael in England. This video really touched me. The Irish of that Generation who won their freedom from British Tyranny were a great generation. Im glad this fellow is recording it all. These stories of the freedom struggle 100 years ago will inspire the Gaelic people of Ireland for ever more! IRELAND FOR THE IRISH! 🇮🇪
My grandfather's brother was a "Messenger Boy" in Wexford during the "War of Independence". He lived until his 90s and got a special pension from the Irish State for his contribution to the struggle. Needless to say - we loved talking to him. He was a stone mason - he had one eye - and a huge family - he was also a very educated man - he read absolutely everything - he was brilliant. Anyway - the reason why I bring him up here - is your article on the Tans. My Uncle was obviously a devout Republican - and one day I asked him about the Tans. Boy - did he catch me by surprise! He said - "To be honest with you - a lot of them were good guys - they weren't all as history has painted them!". I was - to be honest - somewhat flabbergasted. Then he told me a story involving the "Tans" - relating to my family. At that time my family may well have been the poorest of the poor. Ireland - Wexford - 1920 - tough times indeed. Angela's Ashes evidently had nothing on my lot. Anyway - the family were living in what I've heard was virtually a cave at the side of a hill near Raheennahone. To cut a long story short - my Uncle - who was about 14 at the time said this Tan patrol suddenly loomed up out of nowhere. There were about a dozen of them - their leader was a Scottish Sergeant. My Uncle told me that when the Scottish Sergeant saw the state of my family he burst into tears. He was obviously just a decent man. Evidently, he then turned around to the other Tans and told them to hand over their food rations - which they duly did. One of the soldiers had a huge tin of bully beef strapped on his back - The Sergeant made him hand it over. My Uncle told me - if it hadn't been for that Tan patrol - our family would have starved to death. Evidently, the family got six weeks of food out of that tin! That was some tin! That was some Sergeant - That was some Tan Patrol! I say - God Bless the Irish Republic - of which I'm very proud. And I have no doubt that the Tans and the Auxiliaries did what they did - and were "Guilty" as charged. But things are never "Black and White" in times of conflict. I'm very grateful to my Uncle for telling me that story - it was so revealing. So I also say "God Bless" to those men/women - whatever side they are on - when, in times of difficulty, they show such nobility to their fellow human beings - the nature of which clearly demonstrates that there is a spirit that rises to another level - a level of decency that clearly basks in the "Glory of God" and ultimately teaches us that in reality, we are truly all brothers and sisters - and that's the long and the short of it!
My paternal grandfather served on the Western Front during WW1, he was with the Royal Lancashire Regt, which subsequently became King's Own Border Regt. He was injured by shell fire in Ypres, and repatriated to Britain for medical treatment. When he recovered, he was graded as unfit for further service on the WF. He was sent to Ireland, where he was a guard at the Kilmainham gaol. He told my father that, "The Black & Tans were the scum of the earth, the dregs of the British Army." They were thugs. He despised them intensely. I sincerely hope that at some point in the not too distant future, a referendum will see the six counties returned to Ireland, and Britain can end it's involvement. We've been entangled for far too long due to decisions made centuries ago.
They gave Hong Kong and other places back to their respective countries.or do we have to wait another generation or two so bigots and ignorance of the British have sensible people who understands Ireland is a part of IRELAND.its that simple
Very interesting perspective. However I don't think 'the six counties returned to Ireland' or not as the binary solution. It seems a union and coming together of the two communities within Northern Ireland, with true and honest reconciliation over time is more likely to create a lasting solution than mere union of physical territory. A border poll of 50% + 1 vote could lead to a disaster on a Balkin scale. Instead of the binary choices of status quo or unification with ROI, is there the the option of a Union of Ireland between ROI and an independent NI with protections for people who choose to retain their heartfelt British identity (ie dual passports, etc, NI staying within CTA and commonwealth, and new modified federal flag recognising the unity of hearts and minds on the island (ie combining tricolour with red hand of Ulster or something). Ireland has achieved a form of unity through the sport of Rugby, which shows what is possible. In Rugby fans make more use of the IRFU green flag than the ROI tricolour which is repugnant to many northern Unionists. Only the true hand of friendship and reconciliation can bring peoples together, mere territory cannot achieve that. If only nationalists within NI and Unionists in NI could eventually realise that today they have more in common with each other than they do nowadays with English peoples or Southern Irish peoples. Folks in NI remain very warm, welcoming, intelligent, kind and quick witted despite the history. Rugby shows what can be achieved. Right now the Green jersey of all Ireland rugby is worn by Irish men and women of all creeds and all back grounds. They come together and take on the world and these days more often than not win. Back in the bad old days of the early 70s there were officers of the British army playing on a the triple crown winning team, who were protected on and off the pitch by their team mates (eg in hotels and in public, their day jobs were kept secret and their hotel rooms watched over), that's true human camaraderie. Ireland needs a union of hearts and minds, not demographic gloating or point scoring by one community over another, surely we can give the history a rest and look forward to the future. Take care.
Excellent piece! My mother who passed away in 1979 was 9 years old in 1916 and remembered quite clearly being in Sackville Street (O'Connell Street) during the Easter rising, she always mentioned the "poor horses" laying injured in the street having been shot during a cavalry charge.
@BemusedBarfly Eh? What on earth are you talking about? Time to put the bottle of meths down, you're not just deluded as to Ireland but rambling incoherently!
I remember my grandfather telling me of a story when the tans put a handicapped child sitting on a hot range cooker and stories of men being trailed up the road tied to British army lorries ,is it any wonder these men had no mercy when they got the black and tans in their sights
Well to be honest they didn't take on an Empire, they were fighting against an ill-disciplined bunch who clearly brought shame on the British Army. "The war of independence" ended in a military stalemate which politicians (eventually) realised would just keep going on and on so there had to be a settlement
Respect to this man. It would be nice to get a prospectiv on what it was like for the ordinary Protestant people from those same area's. What it was like for them. Saint's Sinners Scholars freedom fighter's and peace . ✌️☘️
The Tans protected protestant loyalist people in the north from the IRA I was taught by my orange family members in Northern Ireland. My grandfather left Ireland in 1957.. as economic conditions were bad.. came to Canada.
My ancestors left after the famine, my great grandmother. Her brother was born on a ship bound for Liverpool. My grandma and my mum consider themselves to be from Yorkshire but I’m trying to find the history of my Irish ancestors
Irish grandparents, relation of Collins. Born in England and I still hate the place and govt here. Shame about Ireland too. All that fighting for nothing
Brilliant oral history thank you . Have you got anymore on why Dromoland wasnt burnt down. My Great Great grandmother was an OBrien Her first marriage was to Thomas Stacpoole Mahon and they lived in Corbally house . Not sure why they were so 'protected'. I know that William smith OBrien was a cousin but you't have thought that Dromoland would have been an obvious target.
Hi Sara, you might like to read David Burke's book 'An Enemy of the Crown' there is some insight there that might be of interest to this particular query.
@Caroline Lees That all you got? Actually Irish Unionists were instrumental in getting Brexit passed (remainer myself), with the impoverishment this will cause the South I doubt the Union has ever been safer.
@@MrLorenzovanmatterho Why did you inform Caroline Lee's that the IRA had no gallantry medals from WW1 when you knew they had after the information I posted to you? You are entitled to your opinion but to deliberately lie when you knew the opposite was true is not exactly playing cricket old sport.
My grandfather took up arms against the british imperial army in 1916. He was little more than a boy but he knew where his duty lay. Against trained professionals he didn’t stand much chance and duly surrendered. He spent a few years in Lincoln prison after which he infiltrated the greater Manchester police force.
You should be very ashamed of your grandfather for his treason and nazism. I doubt he infiltrated the Manchester police, they scored one of the greatest blows suffered by the IRA with the Erskine Street raid.
@@MrLorenzovanmatterho His grandfather was a freedom fighter and a man of principle and courage. I take it you are another runt of the empire, who takes pride in the bullying of weaker nations, carrying degenerate ideals, towards the detriment of mankind. You should be ashamed of yourself and your own father, for siring such a weakling.
Have just watched your video now. An amazing piece of work. Is there some way I can contact you directly, I have an historical account in writing about my grandfather Volunteer TJ Roche E Company GPO Garrison Easter Week. That might interest you.I have minimal IT skills, thanks.
Invaluable work. I encountered such riches in an old IRA man by the name of Donal O'Brien, Caherlough, in Clare who albeit suffered from Parkinson's then could still work away in the winter rain and spoke in pictures. One could see what he said.
Your right it should be about the people. That's what this is all about people and their connection to the land. The land is not as important as the people if anything its a partnership. Without the people there's no connection, it's only ground on its own but with people on it the connection is made and the root's are layed down. That's in every culture on the the planet.✊☘️
I wonder sincerely what happened to the surviving black and tans men who returned to England. Since they were only used to a fighting way of life, i doubt they were ever fit for whatever civilian work after their WW1 and Irish experiences. Does somebody have information on this, or is it told in the book that was the source of this vid? Hope somebody can tell me, thanks in advance.
The Irish volunteers who forced the then mighty British empire to a truce in 1921 got everything that a guerilla army could get. The first priority was to get the British military out of as much of the island of Ireland as possible. Many people see the Irish Civil War as about a 32 County Republic. That is not the case. The 6 County parliament had already been established by then.The political cause of the Civil War was a disagreement between the majority in the Dáil who voted in favour of the Anglo Irish Treaty as agreed provisionally in London and another quite similar version produced by Eamon De Valera. People such as Cathal Brugha and Rory O'Connor were not clear of the political aims except that they wanted to reject the Treaty and 'fight on'. In war, it is very important to have very clear objectives and clarity of what it is you will do if you are successful. If you are not successful, the winners will decide your fate. By forcing the British to call a truce and by getting the British apparatus out of 26 of 32 counties after hundreds of years of occupation should have been considered a success by people with a political outlook. That is a stepping stone approach-freedom to achieve freedom. Military minded people see the desired outcome of a war as an absolute defeat of an enemy. That may not even be desirable if peace is to be productive and a country rebuilt both socially and materially. The-to me-amazing achievement of the recent Sinn Féin/IRA in using a combination of military force and political persuasion in getting the British to dilute and share their control of NI will be seen as a continuation of the pragmatic Michael Collins approach to the political reality in Ireland. We did not as yet achieve control over some of the major public services in the part of Ireland in which we had an opportunity to do so and the Vatican empire still controls our publicly funded education service and they employ and train our teachers. When we return our education and medical service to public control, we will have moved closer to national independence.
A great post Robert which displays your copious amount of knowledge.Some historians believe that Collins accepted the Treaty to buy time because he believed future conflict with Britain was inevitable. They argue that Collins wanted to build up the army comprising veterans of the War of Independence and Irish Great War veterans. I know this exactly was the formula for the new Free State Army(National Army) but Collins did not foresee Civil War. Tom Barry in his interview with Kenneth Griffithin in "Irelands Unfinished Revolution" made a similar point. Some historians argue that Collins wanted to build an Irish army with modern weapons. A new Irish Army in uniform with these weapons would be a daunting prospect at the time for the British.Some historians believed Collins would have dismantled the Treaty eventually and would be militarily prepared for the consequences. During the Treaty discussions a British admiral stated the strength of the Royal Navy. Afterwards Collins made a point to a colleague that Irish submarines would nullify this(see Tim Pat Coogan's biography of Collins). Obviously it frustrated Collins that after getting the British out after centuries of occupation that a part of the population and former comrades would not give the Treaty a chance for the time being when he had a bigger picture in mind. Ireland became a member of the League of Nations in 1923. If Collins went about dismantling the Treaty it would be hard for the British to reoccupy the country in the public glare of the world's spotlight. Would Britain have acted militarily to Collins if he attempted to dismantle the Treaty? I dont know but if you look at the Chanak Crisis in 1922 which almost brought Britain to war with Turkey( Lloyd George and Churchill both wanted war) it horrified the British public. A major war against Turkey in Eastern Europe after sacrificing a generation in WW1 was such a horrific prospect for the British public that the coalition government fell. Lord Birkenhead( F.E.Smith) believed that if Sinn Fein both Anti-Treaty and Free State were united it would take a British Army of over 200,000 to defeat it. Stay safe in these challenging times.
@@bensanderson7144 Could you please clarify. Do you mean the British( mostly Indian soldiers) in Mesopotamia(Iraq) in 1920 to deal with the revolt or the British Army sent to Iraq in 2003?
Just one thing. It seems to me that probably the greatest difference between the IRA led by Michale Collins back then and the IRA which emerged from the more recent conflict is that the latter didn't enjoy overwhelming support for most of its existence but the increase is support for Sinn fein at least is a more recent phenomenon due largely to the peace process and the Good Friday Agreement.
@@johnroche7541 Mesotamia in the early 1920's is being referred to. The British had lost a battle in a place called Out and were short of troops. They had not created Iraq yet.
Serving in the First World War and any trauma the ‘black & tans’ may or may not have experienced doesn’t excuse the atrocities they committed in Ireland.
If anyone is interested in the Volunteers of that time read the Ernie O'Malley series of books "The Men Will Talk to Me". They did, his former comrades, give an intimate account of the Tan War.
It is a very good book. When Ernie O' Malley spoke to IRA veterans from Co.Kerry he was told that a former Black & Tan who served in Kerry was later killed in Egypt. This is not 100% accurate. Later some Black &Tans and Auxiliaries would join the Palestine Police Force. The Black & Tan who served in Kerry was killed in Palestine near Nazareth in 1922 in an ambush. His surname was Purvis. Another former Black & Tan was killed in the same ambush. I have more info on this including their full names which I will post as soon as I lay my hands on it.
The two former Black & Tans that were killed in an ambush near Nazareth on 10 June 1923 were Joseph Purvis & John Loydall. The year was 1923 and not 1922 as I wrongly stated in my first post.
According to my grandmother they were evl as more tgan one of her friends were sxuaĺy assaulted by hem and went unpunished until the local ITA volunteers kiĺed hi and hus entire squad.
How would these fine people view Leos Ireland today, all the values of being Irish abandoned, The Right to Life Gone, Secure borders Gone, Same sex marraige in, A whole month dedicated to Gayness, And the worst of treachery, Thousands of homeless Irish men women and children, Is that what it was all about? Is that what men and women fought and died for? Find Alternate Parties other than the same old same old, if their name is popular, look closer, Very close. Erin Go Brath.
@@andreaoreill Are you living in the same world the rest of us are in, take a look around you, your rights are being taken from you faster than they were won for you, a few foreigners really? I hope you dont have young children, because theres a child in Nigeria, who hasnt even been born yet, will have a home, have a car, and an income, whether from honest toil or not, before your children . I begrudge no one, if you work hard , earn your keep, and dont think you deserve something because of the colour of your skin in a foreign country, grand job. But my Grandkids Deserve the Ireland My Great grand Parents fought for, That our generations have bought and paid for. And why you slagging of the Brits? Theyve nothing to do with this country, there no threat to this country, you wanna stop smoking that shit and relise what year we live in, and dont Slainte me, your no Irishman.
As W.B. Yeats observed in "September 1913": "Was it for this the Wild Geese spread the grey wing on every tide; for this that all that blood was shed?"
Every country changes and matures as the world keeps turning. Ireland is a multi cultural country now whether we like it or not. However I totally disagree with every politician and person that draws parallels with the Irish diaspora and the immigration into this country. The Irish endured racism in both the US and Britain but that is well documented. I know that immigrants into Ireland unfortunately suffer racism as well. There is a difference. A lot of Irish people who emigrated did not have a roof over their heads when they landed and I think they would have been grateful if something like Direct Provision existed with all it's faults. Think of the housing that a lot of Irish people were born into during the 1930's to the 1950"s - large families in small houses with no running hot water and crude outdoor lavatories. I think they would have been glad of the Direct Provision that immigrants have in Ireland today. Think of the older generation telling those tales of scrimping and saving to pay the rent. Some Irish emigrants had just their fare to get to the US & UK. They did not receive the welfare and benefits that immigrants receive in Ireland today when the land. Look at the contribution of the Irish labourers and navvies that helped literally help build these countries of the USA & UK. The Irish also joined the armed forces of these countries and literally spilled blood. Ireland is geographically just a small island with a small population and constant immigration into Ireland will have a profound effect on the native population. Look at the homeless in Irish towns and cities today.I think they would prefer Direct Provision to starlight hotel. How many Irish people do you know right now that has been on council lists for years. If you use the word "immigrant' or "foreigner" in the sensitive politically correct climate today people are ready to paint you with the racist and xenophobic brush. Look how holy Catholic pictures and statues in schools have to be removed so that they dont cause offence to the new visitors to these shores. I dont think Irish people are racist. They justifiably get angry when they think of the conditions that their parents and grandparents had to live in and the austere conditions they endured. By the way a friend of mine who lived and worked here for years wanted to open a barbers but was turned down. Literally 6 months later it became a Turkish Barbers. I dont understand. For those who compare Irish emigration and the emigration into this country should ask themselves this question. Whose shoes would you rather be in an Irish immigrant going to the USA & UK in the 1950's to the 1980s or even 1990's or an immigrant arriving in Ireland today in 2020? Stay safe in these challenging times.
As I understand it, the Black and Tans were recruited specifically to reinforce the RIC but the Auxiliaries were created to serve specifically as mobile raiding units to take on the the IRA flying columns. Ironically, both groups spent most of their time in Ireland terrorising innocent civilians and contributed enormously to support for the IRA among the population. Great video and good work.
Don't be stupid, they were utterly defeated, the Anglo Irish Treaty gave Britain everything we wanted. Irish Nationalists always supported the IRA and didn't need the Tans to do that, they couldn't have cared less for the lives of the IRA's victims and wanted a totalitarian Ireland.
@@MrLorenzovanmatterho If by "they were utterly defeated" you mean the British administration in Ireland then, yes, they were. It collapsed. But then you can't really expect a system to endear itself to a population when it uses increasingly repressive measures and policies such as martial law, courts-martial and even tacit approval of extrajudiciary retaliation and acts of violence against civilians with a view to discouraging support for the IRA. The British administration shot itself in the foot and consequently the British cabinet had to agree to a truce because its own policies had failed miserably.
@@MrLorenzovanmatterho David Lloyd George had initially insisted in December 1920 that the IRA first surrender their arms before any talks took place, but then he came under pressure from H. H. Asquith and the Liberal opposition, the Labour Party and the Trades Union Congress, to talks with Sinn Fein delegates which were held in London between July and December 1921 and that led to the truce. I have to say the IRA did quite well to get to the negotiating table with only a force of approximately 3,000 - 15,000 men against 20,000 soldiers, 9,700 RIC men, 7,000 "black and tans', 1,400 auxilieries. That's hardly a defeat if you're able to negotiate with the enemy and agree terms instead of surrender.
@@chrisfitzgerald6871 LG didn't insist on surrender in 1921 because the IRA virtually had no weapons left. Republicans were always welcome at the negotiating table as the IPP were but they preferred murder and terror because that's what they're all about. The IRA achieved nothing, their greatest victory was the successful ambush of a unit which wouldn't even constitute an understrength platoon and forcing the RIC to close half the police stations in Cork. When you compare that to the security forces victories at Clonmult, Carlow, Blackhall Place, McCartney's Quarry and the Custom's House? You should check your figures on the numbers but even then the vast majority of Ireland was peacefully under British rule, the vast majority of soldiers/police officers never fired their weapons. The security forces killed or captured 3 terrorists for everyone the IRA murdered.
@@MrLorenzovanmatterho Your assertion that the IRA "had no weapons left" has no basis because despite the disastrous outcome of the assault on the Customs House in May of 1921 the Dublin brigade of the IRA still carried out 107 attacks against British forces in the same month and 93 atacks in June 1921. As you asserted in an earlier comment "the IRA was on the verge of defeat" but that's not the same thing as actually being defeated. Lloyd George would have known that because he had a hand in personally dictating the terms of the Treaty of Versailles in 1919. And if, as you assert, "Ireland was peacefully under British rule, the vast majority of soldiers/police officers never fired their weapons" (as if the killing of 14 civilians and the wounding of 65 others by British forces at Croke Park on 21 November 1920 and countless other acts of violence by British forces against Irish civilians never happened), why then would the British administration in Ireland call off the policy of house burnings as reprisals in June 1921and why would Sinn Fein, a party which confirmed the Republic as it was proclaimed in the 1916 Rising, win 124 out of 128 seats in the Parliament of Southern Ireland during the general election of May 1921? Someone needs to do their research...
The uprising,the war of 'independence' and the civil war were a tragic waste of life, the Irish Free State had already been granted before the 14 - 18 war. All three were led by 'super Irishmen' who were more Irish than everybody else.
The British should finally admit their guilt and return the stolen part of Ireland back to the people that it belongs to and if the unionists don't like it then the British should repatriate them like others before in their dying empire. I say that as an ex British soldier of Irish descent.
I know that one should never go by looks, but to be perfectly honest, none of these B and Ts seem to be hard. They were like the playground bully with lots of mates behind him picking on the weaker kids. They were essentially cowards. Operating in numbers. A lot of the time against unarmed men, women and children who would be in fewer numbers by far. With the resources of the British State on their side. A bit different when they met armed freedom fighters. Not brave men at all. Many of them got their just desserts, just like their successors of The Seventies and Eighties, hundreds of whom were repatriated to Britain in body bags. The IRA to this day remain undefeated, irrespective of the conditions prevailing within the Republican Movement. Only the Six Counties left for the job to be completed.
As a Brit with 25% Irish blood I find your Independence struggle fascinating. YET having thrown the Brits out you know tow to the EU in such an obsequious way. Don’t understand..strikes as pathetic..
Wouldn't expect you to understand. The people chose the EU. GB didn't give us a choice, it was do as they say not as they do. Jack boots, bullets, bayonets and the butcher's apron. See the difference.
My grandfather was a proud Black and Tan , killed many paddies as he told me Pity the army didn’t have the same freedom to operate in Belfast ,it would have been over quickly
They didn't stand up to my great-Aunt Lilly. They burst into her home looking for Republicans. While she riled them up with insults the men were escaping over the back wall.
My Father was born in 1900. He slept with a gun under the pillow. Both he and his brother worked at Jacobs Factory. One on nights and one on days. They rotated sleeping in the same big bed. My Dad’s brother came across the gun and was outraged. So, my Dad fought in the war….
On my Mother’s side, my Great Uncle was Sean Treacy and I have an abiding love for this beautiful Uncle that I never even met.
As Dan Breen said, Irish People Were Born Fighting {With A Fighting Spirit}!
Thank you all so much for this wonderful video. Particular love to those whose memories are so vivid and who lived through the terrible rampages of the English and of The Black & Tans. ❤❤❤
“Come out ye Black & Tans, Come out and fight me like a man” ……..
Greetings to all my Gael people in Ireland from a Gael in England. This video really touched me. The Irish of that Generation who won their freedom from British Tyranny were a great generation. Im glad this fellow is recording it all. These stories of the freedom struggle 100 years ago will inspire the Gaelic people of Ireland for ever more! IRELAND FOR THE IRISH! 🇮🇪
Then we had the civil war and killed many good people.
We are no better
My grandfather's brother was a "Messenger Boy" in Wexford during the "War of Independence". He lived until his 90s and got a special pension from the Irish State for his contribution to the struggle. Needless to say - we loved talking to him. He was a stone mason - he had one eye - and a huge family - he was also a very educated man - he read absolutely everything - he was brilliant. Anyway - the reason why I bring him up here - is your article on the Tans. My Uncle was obviously a devout Republican - and one day I asked him about the Tans. Boy - did he catch me by surprise! He said - "To be honest with you - a lot of them were good guys - they weren't all as history has painted them!". I was - to be honest - somewhat flabbergasted. Then he told me a story involving the "Tans" - relating to my family. At that time my family may well have been the poorest of the poor. Ireland - Wexford - 1920 - tough times indeed. Angela's Ashes evidently had nothing on my lot. Anyway - the family were living in what I've heard was virtually a cave at the side of a hill near Raheennahone. To cut a long story short - my Uncle - who was about 14 at the time said this Tan patrol suddenly loomed up out of nowhere. There were about a dozen of them - their leader was a Scottish Sergeant. My Uncle told me that when the Scottish Sergeant saw the state of my family he burst into tears. He was obviously just a decent man. Evidently, he then turned around to the other Tans and told them to hand over their food rations - which they duly did. One of the soldiers had a huge tin of bully beef strapped on his back - The Sergeant made him hand it over. My Uncle told me - if it hadn't been for that Tan patrol - our family would have starved to death. Evidently, the family got six weeks of food out of that tin! That was some tin! That was some Sergeant - That was some Tan Patrol! I say - God Bless the Irish Republic - of which I'm very proud. And I have no doubt that the Tans and the Auxiliaries did what they did - and were "Guilty" as charged. But things are never "Black and White" in times of conflict. I'm very grateful to my Uncle for telling me that story - it was so revealing. So I also say "God Bless" to those men/women - whatever side they are on - when, in times of difficulty, they show such nobility to their fellow human beings - the nature of which clearly demonstrates that there is a spirit that rises to another level - a level of decency that clearly basks in the "Glory of God" and ultimately teaches us that in reality, we are truly all brothers and sisters - and that's the long and the short of it!
My paternal grandfather served on the Western Front during WW1, he was with the Royal Lancashire Regt, which subsequently became King's Own Border Regt. He was injured by shell fire in Ypres, and repatriated to Britain for medical treatment. When he recovered, he was graded as unfit for further service on the WF. He was sent to Ireland, where he was a guard at the Kilmainham gaol. He told my father that, "The Black & Tans were the scum of the earth, the dregs of the British Army." They were thugs. He despised them intensely. I sincerely hope that at some point in the not too distant future, a referendum will see the six counties returned to Ireland, and Britain can end it's involvement. We've been entangled for far too long due to decisions made centuries ago.
They gave Hong Kong and other places back to their respective countries.or do we have to wait another generation or two so bigots and ignorance of the British have sensible people who understands Ireland is a part of IRELAND.its that simple
The were the nazis but with support of the English they set the bar for future The British army is a collection of scumbags answerable to no one
Very interesting perspective. However I don't think 'the six counties returned to Ireland' or not as the binary solution. It seems a union and coming together of the two communities within Northern Ireland, with true and honest reconciliation over time is more likely to create a lasting solution than mere union of physical territory. A border poll of 50% + 1 vote could lead to a disaster on a Balkin scale. Instead of the binary choices of status quo or unification with ROI, is there the the option of a Union of Ireland between ROI and an independent NI with protections for people who choose to retain their heartfelt British identity (ie dual passports, etc, NI staying within CTA and commonwealth, and new modified federal flag recognising the unity of hearts and minds on the island (ie combining tricolour with red hand of Ulster or something). Ireland has achieved a form of unity through the sport of Rugby, which shows what is possible. In Rugby fans make more use of the IRFU green flag than the ROI tricolour which is repugnant to many northern Unionists. Only the true hand of friendship and reconciliation can bring peoples together, mere territory cannot achieve that. If only nationalists within NI and Unionists in NI could eventually realise that today they have more in common with each other than they do nowadays with English peoples or Southern Irish peoples. Folks in NI remain very warm, welcoming, intelligent, kind and quick witted despite the history. Rugby shows what can be achieved. Right now the Green jersey of all Ireland rugby is worn by Irish men and women of all creeds and all back grounds. They come together and take on the world and these days more often than not win. Back in the bad old days of the early 70s there were officers of the British army playing on a the triple crown winning team, who were protected on and off the pitch by their team mates (eg in hotels and in public, their day jobs were kept secret and their hotel rooms watched over), that's true human camaraderie. Ireland needs a union of hearts and minds, not demographic gloating or point scoring by one community over another, surely we can give the history a rest and look forward to the future. Take care.
Excellent piece! My mother who passed away in 1979 was 9 years old in 1916 and remembered quite clearly being in Sackville Street (O'Connell Street) during the Easter rising, she always mentioned the "poor horses" laying injured in the street having been shot during a cavalry charge.
Good for you ! A real treasure to Ireland you are . History is being lost and rewritten today in revisionist terms ! 👍❤️☘️
Thank you. A true historian,delivered with honesty and a deep understanding.
Need some hero's badly right now in Ireland 😭😭😭🇮🇪👍
But you have them, the modern Tans are still there with the Army and RUC
@BemusedBarfly Eh? What on earth are you talking about? Time to put the bottle of meths down, you're not just deluded as to Ireland but rambling incoherently!
@BemusedBarfly Whom?
@BemusedBarfly RUC, Army, The Det, 14 Int, MRF, you name it Sally.
@BemusedBarfly Oh and can't forget the sass/SB.
I remember my grandfather telling me of a story when the tans put a handicapped child sitting on a hot range cooker and stories of men being trailed up the road tied to British army lorries ,is it any wonder these men had no mercy when they got the black and tans in their sights
The lads who took on an Empire and made them run away.
Well to be honest they didn't take on an Empire, they were fighting against an ill-disciplined bunch who clearly brought shame on the British Army. "The war of independence" ended in a military stalemate which politicians (eventually) realised would just keep going on and on so there had to be a settlement
Respect to this man. It would be nice to get a prospectiv on what it was like for the ordinary Protestant people from those same area's. What it was like for them. Saint's Sinners Scholars freedom fighter's and peace . ✌️☘️
Look at the state of Ireland today and all those great men that died for it
The Tans protected protestant loyalist people in the north from the IRA I was taught by my orange family members in Northern Ireland. My grandfather left Ireland in 1957.. as economic conditions were bad.. came to Canada.
My ancestors left after the famine, my great grandmother. Her brother was born on a ship bound for Liverpool. My grandma and my mum consider themselves to be from Yorkshire but I’m trying to find the history of my Irish ancestors
We should never forget the bravery of these men and women who fought for our freedom.
the eu f..ked your freedom
Freedom from what?
Sometimes the world doesn't need a hero sometimes the world needs a monster
Brilliant 🇮🇪
heros
Irish grandparents, relation of Collins. Born in England and I still hate the place and govt here. Shame about Ireland too. All that fighting for nothing
Brilliant oral history thank you . Have you got anymore on why Dromoland wasnt burnt down. My Great Great grandmother was an OBrien Her first marriage was to Thomas Stacpoole Mahon and they lived in Corbally house . Not sure why they were so 'protected'. I know that William smith OBrien was a cousin but you't have thought that Dromoland would have been an obvious target.
Hi Sara, you might like to read David Burke's book 'An Enemy of the Crown' there is some insight there that might be of interest to this particular query.
Irelands Greatest Generation 🇮🇪
The Tans? They sure were!
@Caroline Lees Who's that? The IRA? Of course they had no medals, they stabbed their country in the back and murdered their neighbours. .
@Caroline Lees Well let's see, off the top of my head, Douglas Duff, William King, Hoppy Hardy, George Nathan.... Is that all you have? Really?
@Caroline Lees That all you got? Actually Irish Unionists were instrumental in getting Brexit passed (remainer myself), with the impoverishment this will cause the South I doubt the Union has ever been safer.
@@MrLorenzovanmatterho Why did you inform Caroline Lee's that the IRA had no gallantry medals from WW1 when you knew they had after the information I posted to you? You are entitled to your opinion but to deliberately lie when you knew the opposite was true is not exactly playing cricket old sport.
My grandfather took up arms against the british imperial army in 1916. He was little more than a boy but he knew where his duty lay. Against trained professionals he didn’t stand much chance and duly surrendered. He spent a few years in Lincoln prison after which he infiltrated the greater Manchester police force.
You should be very ashamed of your grandfather for his treason and nazism. I doubt he infiltrated the Manchester police, they scored one of the greatest blows suffered by the IRA with the Erskine Street raid.
@@MrLorenzovanmatterho His grandfather was a freedom fighter and a man of principle and courage. I take it you are another runt of the empire, who takes pride in the bullying of weaker nations, carrying degenerate ideals, towards the detriment of mankind. You should be ashamed of yourself and your own father, for siring such a weakling.
Have just watched your video now. An amazing piece of work. Is there some way I can contact you directly, I have an historical account in writing about my grandfather Volunteer TJ Roche E Company GPO Garrison Easter Week. That might interest you.I have minimal IT skills, thanks.
Invaluable work. I encountered such riches in an old IRA man by the name of Donal O'Brien, Caherlough, in Clare who albeit suffered from Parkinson's then could still work away in the winter rain and spoke in pictures. One could see what he said.
Your right it should be about the people. That's what this is all about people and their connection to the land. The land is not as important as the people if anything its a partnership. Without the people there's no connection, it's only ground on its own but with people on it the connection is made and the root's are layed down. That's in every culture on the the planet.✊☘️
I wonder sincerely what happened to the surviving black and tans men who returned to England. Since they were only used to a fighting way of life, i doubt they were ever fit for whatever civilian work after their WW1 and Irish experiences. Does somebody have information on this, or is it told in the book that was the source of this vid? Hope somebody can tell me, thanks in advance.
Hunted down and dead
Well done on your work
Amazing
The Irish volunteers who forced the then mighty British empire to a truce in 1921 got everything that a guerilla army could get. The first priority was to get the British military out of as much of the island of Ireland as possible. Many people see the Irish Civil War as about a 32 County Republic. That is not the case. The 6 County parliament had already been established by then.The political cause of the Civil War was a disagreement between the majority in the Dáil who voted in favour of the Anglo Irish Treaty as agreed provisionally in London and another quite similar version produced by Eamon De Valera. People such as Cathal Brugha and Rory O'Connor were not clear of the political aims except that they wanted to reject the Treaty and 'fight on'.
In war, it is very important to have very clear objectives and clarity of what it is you will do if you are successful. If you are not successful, the winners will decide your fate. By forcing the British to call a truce and by getting the British apparatus out of 26 of 32 counties after hundreds of years of occupation should have been considered a success by people with a political outlook.
That is a stepping stone approach-freedom to achieve freedom. Military minded people see the desired outcome of a war as an absolute defeat of an enemy. That may not even be desirable if peace is to be productive and a country rebuilt both socially and materially.
The-to me-amazing achievement of the recent Sinn Féin/IRA in using a combination of military force and political persuasion in getting the British to dilute and share their control of NI will be seen as a continuation of the pragmatic Michael Collins approach to the political reality in Ireland.
We did not as yet achieve control over some of the major public services in the part of Ireland in which we had an opportunity to do so and the Vatican empire still controls our publicly funded education service and they employ and train our teachers. When we return our education and medical service to public control, we will have moved closer to national independence.
A great post Robert which displays your copious amount of knowledge.Some historians believe that Collins accepted the Treaty to buy time because he believed future conflict with Britain was inevitable. They argue that Collins wanted to build up the army comprising veterans of the War of Independence and Irish Great War veterans. I know this exactly was the formula for the new Free State Army(National Army) but Collins did not foresee Civil War. Tom Barry in his interview with Kenneth Griffithin in "Irelands Unfinished Revolution" made a similar point. Some historians argue that Collins wanted to build an Irish army with modern weapons. A new Irish Army in uniform with these weapons would be a daunting prospect at the time for the British.Some historians believed Collins would have dismantled the Treaty eventually and would be militarily prepared for the consequences. During the Treaty discussions a British admiral stated the strength of the Royal Navy. Afterwards Collins made a point to a colleague that Irish submarines would nullify this(see Tim Pat Coogan's biography of Collins). Obviously it frustrated Collins that after getting the British out after centuries of occupation that a part of the population and former comrades would not give the Treaty a chance for the time being when he had a bigger picture in mind. Ireland became a member of the League of Nations in 1923. If Collins went about dismantling the Treaty it would be hard for the British to reoccupy the country in the public glare of the world's spotlight. Would Britain have acted militarily to Collins if he attempted to dismantle the Treaty? I dont know but if you look at the Chanak Crisis in 1922 which almost brought Britain to war with Turkey( Lloyd George and Churchill both wanted war) it horrified the British public. A major war against Turkey in Eastern Europe after sacrificing a generation in WW1 was such a horrific prospect for the British public that the coalition government fell. Lord Birkenhead( F.E.Smith) believed that if Sinn Fein both Anti-Treaty and Free State were united it would take a British Army of over 200,000 to defeat it. Stay safe in these challenging times.
Fewer troops were sent to Iraq
@@bensanderson7144 Could you please clarify. Do you mean the British( mostly Indian soldiers) in Mesopotamia(Iraq) in 1920 to deal with the revolt or the British Army sent to Iraq in 2003?
Just one thing. It seems to me that probably the greatest difference between the IRA led by Michale Collins back then and the IRA which emerged from the more recent conflict is that the latter didn't enjoy overwhelming support for most of its existence but the increase is support for Sinn fein at least is a more recent phenomenon due largely to the peace process and the Good Friday Agreement.
@@johnroche7541 Mesotamia in the early 1920's is being referred to. The British had lost a battle in a place called Out and were short of troops. They had not created Iraq yet.
A lot of these tans were from the somme and had been totally traumatised by war wrong place wrong time
Serving in the First World War and any trauma the ‘black & tans’ may or may not have experienced doesn’t excuse the atrocities they committed in Ireland.
If anyone is interested in the Volunteers of that time read the Ernie O'Malley series of books "The Men Will Talk to Me". They did, his former comrades, give an intimate account of the Tan War.
It is a very good book. When Ernie O' Malley spoke to IRA veterans from Co.Kerry he was told that a former Black & Tan who served in Kerry was later killed in Egypt. This is not 100% accurate. Later some Black &Tans and Auxiliaries would join the Palestine Police Force. The Black & Tan who served in Kerry was killed in Palestine near Nazareth in 1922 in an ambush. His surname was Purvis. Another former Black & Tan was killed in the same ambush. I have more info on this including their full names which I will post as soon as I lay my hands on it.
The two former Black & Tans that were killed in an ambush near Nazareth on 10 June 1923 were Joseph Purvis & John Loydall. The year was 1923 and not 1922 as I wrongly stated in my first post.
According to my grandmother they were evl as more tgan one of her friends were sxuaĺy assaulted by hem and went unpunished until the local ITA volunteers kiĺed hi and hus entire squad.
How would these fine people view Leos Ireland today, all the values of being Irish abandoned, The Right to Life Gone, Secure borders Gone, Same sex marraige in, A whole month dedicated to Gayness, And the worst of treachery, Thousands of homeless Irish men women and children, Is that what it was all about? Is that what men and women fought and died for? Find Alternate Parties other than the same old same old, if their name is popular, look closer, Very close. Erin Go Brath.
@@andreaoreill Are you living in the same world the rest of us are in, take a look around you, your rights are being taken from you faster than they were won for you, a few foreigners really? I hope you dont have young children, because theres a child in Nigeria, who hasnt even been born yet, will have a home, have a car, and an income, whether from honest toil or not, before your children . I begrudge no one, if you work hard , earn your keep, and dont think you deserve something because of the colour of your skin in a foreign country, grand job. But my Grandkids Deserve the Ireland My Great grand Parents fought for, That our generations have bought and paid for. And why you slagging of the Brits? Theyve nothing to do with this country, there no threat to this country, you wanna stop smoking that shit and relise what year we live in, and dont Slainte me, your no Irishman.
ands z ...well said Sir.Bright Moments to you and yours.☘️
As W.B. Yeats observed in "September 1913": "Was it for this the Wild Geese spread the grey wing on every tide; for this that all that blood was shed?"
Every country changes and matures as the world keeps turning. Ireland is a multi cultural country now whether we like it or not. However I totally disagree with every politician and person that draws parallels with the Irish diaspora and the immigration into this country. The Irish endured racism in both the US and Britain but that is well documented. I know that immigrants into Ireland unfortunately suffer racism as well. There is a difference. A lot of Irish people who emigrated did not have a roof over their heads when they landed and I think they would have been grateful if something like Direct Provision existed with all it's faults. Think of the housing that a lot of Irish people were born into during the 1930's to the 1950"s - large families in small houses with no running hot water and crude outdoor lavatories. I think they would have been glad of the Direct Provision that immigrants have in Ireland today. Think of the older generation telling those tales of scrimping and saving to pay the rent. Some Irish emigrants had just their fare to get to the US & UK. They did not receive the welfare and benefits that immigrants receive in Ireland today when the land. Look at the contribution of the Irish labourers and navvies that helped literally help build these countries of the USA & UK. The Irish also joined the armed forces of these countries and literally spilled blood. Ireland is geographically just a small island with a small population and constant immigration into Ireland will have a profound effect on the native population. Look at the homeless in Irish towns and cities today.I think they would prefer Direct Provision to starlight hotel.
How many Irish people do you know right now that has been on council lists for years. If you use the word "immigrant' or "foreigner" in the sensitive politically correct climate today people are ready to paint you with the racist and xenophobic brush. Look how holy Catholic pictures and statues in schools have to be removed so that they dont cause offence to the new visitors to these shores. I dont think Irish people are racist. They justifiably get angry when they think of the conditions that their parents and grandparents had to live in and the austere conditions they endured. By the way a friend of mine who lived and worked here for years wanted to open a barbers but was turned down. Literally 6 months later it became a Turkish Barbers. I dont understand. For those who compare Irish emigration and the emigration into this country should ask themselves this question. Whose shoes would you rather be in an Irish immigrant going to the USA & UK in the 1950's to the 1980s or even 1990's or an immigrant arriving in Ireland today in 2020? Stay safe in these challenging times.
You can’t be Irish and gay?
NEVER ! NEVER ! NEVER !
As I understand it, the Black and Tans were recruited specifically to reinforce the RIC but the Auxiliaries were created to serve specifically as mobile raiding units to take on the the IRA flying columns. Ironically, both groups spent most of their time in Ireland terrorising innocent civilians and contributed enormously to support for the IRA among the population. Great video and good work.
Don't be stupid, they were utterly defeated, the Anglo Irish Treaty gave Britain everything we wanted. Irish Nationalists always supported the IRA and didn't need the Tans to do that, they couldn't have cared less for the lives of the IRA's victims and wanted a totalitarian Ireland.
@@MrLorenzovanmatterho If by "they were utterly defeated" you mean the British administration in Ireland then, yes, they were. It collapsed. But then you can't really expect a system to endear itself to a population when it uses increasingly repressive measures and policies such as martial law, courts-martial and even tacit approval of extrajudiciary retaliation and acts of violence against civilians with a view to discouraging support for the IRA. The British administration shot itself in the foot and consequently the British cabinet had to agree to a truce because its own policies had failed miserably.
@@MrLorenzovanmatterho David Lloyd George had initially insisted in December 1920 that the IRA first surrender their arms before any talks took place, but then he came under pressure from H. H. Asquith and the Liberal opposition, the Labour Party and the Trades Union Congress, to talks with Sinn Fein delegates which were held in London between July and December 1921 and that led to the truce. I have to say the IRA did quite well to get to the negotiating table with only a force of approximately 3,000 - 15,000 men against 20,000 soldiers, 9,700 RIC men, 7,000 "black and tans', 1,400 auxilieries. That's hardly a defeat if you're able to negotiate with the enemy and agree terms instead of surrender.
@@chrisfitzgerald6871 LG didn't insist on surrender in 1921 because the IRA virtually had no weapons left. Republicans were always welcome at the negotiating table as the IPP were but they preferred murder and terror because that's what they're all about. The IRA achieved nothing, their greatest victory was the successful ambush of a unit which wouldn't even constitute an understrength platoon and forcing the RIC to close half the police stations in Cork. When you compare that to the security forces victories at Clonmult, Carlow, Blackhall Place, McCartney's Quarry and the Custom's House? You should check your figures on the numbers but even then the vast majority of Ireland was peacefully under British rule, the vast majority of soldiers/police officers never fired their weapons. The security forces killed or captured 3 terrorists for everyone the IRA murdered.
@@MrLorenzovanmatterho Your assertion that the IRA "had no weapons left" has no basis because despite the disastrous outcome of the assault on the Customs House in May of 1921 the Dublin brigade of the IRA still carried out 107 attacks against British forces in the same month and 93 atacks in June 1921. As you asserted in an earlier comment "the IRA was on the verge of defeat" but that's not the same thing as actually being defeated. Lloyd George would have known that because he had a hand in personally dictating the terms of the Treaty of Versailles in 1919. And if, as you assert, "Ireland was peacefully under British rule, the vast majority of soldiers/police officers never fired their weapons" (as if the killing of 14 civilians and the wounding of 65 others by British forces at Croke Park on 21 November 1920 and countless other acts of violence by British forces against Irish civilians never happened), why then would the British administration in Ireland call off the policy of house burnings as reprisals in June 1921and why would Sinn Fein, a party which confirmed the Republic as it was proclaimed in the 1916 Rising, win 124 out of 128 seats in the Parliament of Southern Ireland during the general election of May 1921? Someone needs to do their research...
When someone invades your country you don't need angels ......
The uprising,the war of 'independence' and the civil war were a tragic waste of life, the Irish Free State had already been granted before the 14 - 18 war. All three were led by 'super Irishmen' who were more Irish than everybody else.
Hopefully the follow up book will be The Time of the Tans is here again.
The British Blagard Brigade.
The British should finally admit their guilt and return the stolen part of Ireland back to the people that it belongs to and if the unionists don't like it then the British should repatriate them like others before in their dying empire. I say that as an ex British soldier of Irish descent.
we could take the properties of the irish in liverpool london glasgow etc as they are repatriated. How does that suit?
@@smuttys2 Deal now get off our land
@@baintreachdhubh7327 naw changed my mind . ive been here longer than white yanks have been in America so its my country you f..k off
@@smuttys2 Make me
@@baintreachdhubh7327 no just live under my rules use £ sterling live under uk laws you will be tolerated
The Irish language..is translated to English in this country....not the other Way round..🇮🇪
Y n w a
Black and tan , nice pint of beer .
The north irish feel a kin with the IRA of this period seeing it came upon them in the last generation
We had the tans up north, they just had a few different titles. I'll never forget the B Specials.
Come out Ye black and tans!!!
come on you black and tans!
come out and fight like a man!
Come out you black and tans
Should read now kow tow...
Fine unrepentant republican men.
I know that one should never go by looks, but to be perfectly honest, none of these B and Ts seem to be hard. They were like the playground bully with lots of mates behind him picking on the weaker kids. They were essentially cowards. Operating in numbers. A lot of the time against unarmed men, women and children who would be in fewer numbers by far. With the resources of the British State on their side. A bit different when they met armed freedom fighters. Not brave men at all. Many of them got their just desserts, just like their successors of The Seventies and Eighties, hundreds of whom were repatriated to Britain in body bags. The IRA to this day remain undefeated, irrespective of the conditions prevailing within the Republican Movement. Only the Six Counties left for the job to be completed.
Up the Ra 🇮🇪
yea right up them
As a Brit with 25% Irish blood I find your Independence struggle fascinating. YET having thrown the Brits out you know tow to the EU in such an obsequious way. Don’t understand..strikes as pathetic..
Barry Laflin
I'm with you on that, and I'm from the North.
SF = Sneaky Feckers
Id have 2 agree with u im a paddy now living in the states.ireland has become a suburb of brussells.
Wouldn't expect you to understand. The people chose the EU. GB didn't give us a choice, it was do as they say not as they do. Jack boots, bullets, bayonets and the butcher's apron. See the difference.
@@baintreachdhubh7327 The jack boots are on the way.
@@concong4183 Better SF than the DUP .
DUP - Don't Understand Politics. which is how they got DUPed into agreeing to the protocol.
My grandfather was a proud Black and Tan , killed many paddies as he told me
Pity the army didn’t have the same freedom to operate in Belfast ,it would have been over quickly
BemusedBarfly you back to growing tatties ya prick
They didn't stand up to my great-Aunt Lilly. They burst into her home looking for Republicans. While she riled them up with insults the men were escaping over the back wall.
@@markbrave How's it going 'mark' ?
He was a proud savage. What else could he be?
@@bluechip297 proud Black and Tan and paddy killer