A German humorist (Herbert Hiesl) of 60ies Fame had a Bundeswehr program, which featured the HS 30: ‚yesterday the guy, who gets our coffee collided with an APC. Nothing happened to our coffee, but it took 4 hours, until we could free the driver from under the debris of the HS30‘
In the early eighties I was soldier of the Bundeswehr and there were some of these still in service in medical batallions. They were nicknamed "Schlagloch Suchgerät" (pothole finder)
The American M-113 was a RPG magnet. So much so, American troops weren't exactly thrilled to see them in Vietnam. The American Army ended up using it anyway in large numbers, and in a number of variants, including one armed with a 20mm Vulcan gatling gun for the air defense role, and another that had a TOW missile launcher.
Gotta love Hispano-Suiza's business model - get a big order, build a piece of crap that doesn't work, then make your customer pay you 40 million to stop building them.
As for the firepower: The canon vents it's gas into the rather small and badly ventilated turret. One of the reasons the 20mm Rh-202 on Marder is externally mounted
interesting. taken in conjunction with the defects mentioned in this film, and the scandal and corruption, this would be a perfect vehicle for the elbonian military.
so the suspension breaks if it goes too fast, but the motor is too underpowered to get it going that fast. sounds like a self-correcting problem. it also sounds like a perfect one to have David Fletcher describing.
To be fair, hasn't this been the case for many machines over the years as well as being an effective way of going about things.... just look at limiting the revs on car engines so the valves never have to operate faster than they are able as one example. And I don't just mean military stuff.
My father served in the West German Army from 62-68 most of the time with the Panzergrenadiers. When I picked his brain about this, that and the other, he described, with his Bavarian sarcasm the HS.30 as - "being slightly better than horseshit, but not as good as the hay wagon the horse is pulling"
It's too bad because visually it's a very pretty vehicle. Even though it was from the sixties, it had more armor than m113, a more powerful gun, and a turret that protected the gunner. Imagine how many m113 Gunners would have been killed in the Firepower drenched NATO vs. Warsaw Pact scenario. A 20 mm Cannon and a small profile on paper makes this vehicle look good, too bad it was a mess inside the engine and transmission, as well as the procurement process
@68K It was not designed in germany... Germany later DID design it's own IFV the Marder (later Marder 1 - there was a Marder 2 that did not make it past prototype due to end of the cold war). THAT is still a quite nice vehicle more than 40 years after it entered service.
Likewise. I appreciate that the Tank Museum needs to raise funds, but the recent editing looks amateurish and a bit *too* eager to get it's hands on my money, especially with Richard Smith's breathless manner. I'd normally watch any tank chat all the way through, but now if it's about a vehicle that doesn't interest me much I shut the video down when the promo cuts in.
I'm in two minds, as I have mastered the fast forward button, but would prefer these segments to be at the start and the end as they used to be. It's a fair point you make.
It wouldn't be as jarring on a longer video, it's sometimes difficult for me to reset my thoughts after the distraction. Maybe a more laid back mini ad like we have seen on the backyard Q and A would do.
@@andrewbellavie795 As an educator, I certainly understand that educational resources like Bovington need funding from the public. I have, actually bought items from the Tank Museum and even visited in 2019. (I'm from the US.) My frustration is that 1. It's annoying and that 2. I wouldn't want to send my students to a video knowing it's studded with advertisements.
The nomenclature for the different types of Panzergrenadier-units was: PzGren (mot) - trucks (Unimog) PzGren (MTW) - M113 PzGren (SPZ) - AIFV (HS30 later Marder)
The super-duper, multi-fuel, all-singing, all-dancing Buck Rogers engine was one half of the Chieftain's problems. The other was the transmission, which, iirc, wasn't strong enough to handle the power on those notable occasions the engine could be coaxed into actually sort of working. My father drove a 1980s Jaguar 4.2l sedan for many years. Loved the car, did road trips to Sweden with it (we lived in Germany then), never had a problem. Until, after just over 200,000 miles, the gearbox failed catastrophically. Dealership ordered a replacememt, the same model was still being made. But when they tried installing it, they found that the manufacturer - Leyland - had made a minor change in the mounting points without telling anyone *and without changing the model number or designation at all* and the new gearbox was not compatible with the car. Leyland...
Yes, home of the Birmingham screwdriver (a hammer). In all seriousness, I'm under the impression they got shafted on the Chieftain engine and have never been forgiven. NATO stipulated it needed to be multifuel and everyone was to do the same, no one else could do it (or even tried) so they didn't bother, only the UK carried on and you got the wonderful Chieftain engine. There were lots of shenanigans around the EM2 bullpup, NATO round and FAL too, British aviation probably had to deal with the dirty tricks/cash in brown paper bags brigade too. The "special relationship" was special indeed.
@@christopherreed4723 Can beat you on that. An allegro company car that ate 6 gearboxes and reduced its owner to tears because he thought it was something he'd done. Turns out the thing was fitted with the wrong box from new, that ate its input shaft bearing because the shaft was just a couple of mike too long... Dealer just took the part number and replaced it repeatedly with the wrong part. Finally got the right box was right as rain. Dad never bought another BL vehicle (one of his jobs was company cars). Oddly my Wolseley 18/85 is extremely reliable.
No, but they learned how to produce the next generation of vehicles. Knowing Germans those Schützenpanzers would have been followed by a broad sample of the rich German vocabulary of uncouth phrases. The so called: "Berliner Klappe."
at 0:30 the guy on the far left...makes me wonder 1) why he fell off 2) I hope he didnt get hurt too badly then again at 1:15 makes me think the right side of this vehicle had a serious "slip and fall" design issue
Great video spoiled by the pop up interruptions for advertising Tank Museum products - Not Good at all!! Ruins the whole chat. Please put product placement either at the very beginning, or at the very end...
nah, thats high level corruption of conservatives.- The CDU/CSU was in office at the time and their minister of defense, Franz Josef Strauß, turned out to be one of the most corrupt politicians germany ever had.
A "Schützenpanzer" is not an "armoured personnel carrier" but a infantry fighting vehicle. It's role is not to carry soldiers around, but to fight alongside them (and tanks) in the field. So it doesn matter how many soldiers it can carry, as long as it can carry enough and keep them safe.
I noticed you have an M548 Cargo Carrier to the left on the screen. I'm surprised it isn't broke down out in the middle of nowhere. Those things had a consistent, relentless, and almost magical propensity to have mechanical difficulty when you were furthest from any maintenance crew, recovery vehicle, or anyone who could render any assistance, and always when the weather was at its absolute worst.
@@RWJP Of course. It's not being used by soldiers in the field. See, that's the nature of this beast - it performs well for an audience, but as soon as you put it to its intended use it's attitude changes to "screw you for bringing me out here, and since I have to suffer, so will you."
Given that they use two of them for rides around the arena, they're about as close as you can get to recovery vehiicles, maintenance crews, and anyone who can render assistance.
@A Fels Well played, sir. Edit: I got curious, so I checked - the M548 is built by the Italian firm Oto Melara, while Landrover-Jaguar is a subsidiary of Tata, and Indian company. They both probably have plenty of reason to be angry with the U.S. and/or the U.K.
They do it intentionally, otherwise people just don't watch the beginning or end. They are a charity trying to get through the pandemic, just deal with it.
And please not the male Lisa Cuddy. He's got all the charisma of a clapped out Nissan Bluebird and a walking advert for celibacy. PUT THE BEGGING AT THE END, OR YOU'LL LOSE VEIWERS.
I was wondering if the dismount technique displayed on the left of the picture at 0:35 was compliant to TTPs, and considering the later description... it might have been. I guess they loved it. It could spoil the merits of a very low profile toward a low signature the worsening of the acoustic emissions due to Your soldiers swearing all the time. But it does look good seen from a comfy chair.
@@blockstacker5614 The germans would go through three more sets of designs and prototypes before they got it right. I do not know if Bovington has a Marder 1 IFV but the development process of that one would be a one hour video. And an example of "how to do it right" including giving them to the troops with the order to "ride them so hard that they break, then tell us what to fix to stop them breaking"
Interspersing shots from other angles of the vehicle and inside the vehicle (when that's possible given condition) while the talking head is talking would be an improvement. Shouldn't increase the editing load by much to splice those in
I hope the SPZ (kurz) Hotchkiss is covered in the next Vid. After i left the military i relocated to the next (bigger) City 35 km from Home because bigger city has better nightlife = more fun, they had a Garrison in Göttingen plus a Training ground and i often was hiking on the training ground, they had 3 hard targets there 1x M-47 and 2x H.S.30 and i often climbed thru the back door into the H.S.30s inside it was like in a Sardine Can, thought it must be horrible to be in a HS30 driving around for hours with 5 men plus G3 and full equipment.
German Panzergrenadier units (and some Jäger units) ended up using M113 APC. That in turned "killed" the mortar carrier version of Marder since the M106 style mortar carriers work and are in service
In the interrim period, until the PzGren units welcomed the new Spz Marder in 1971/1972 that ended the HS30 fiasco. Jäger units continued to use M113. (And also Spz Marder, as Jaeger soldiers were often deployed into Panzergrenadier units and vice versa, at least around 1980)
@@waltrohrbach2459 I know. Heeresstruktur 3 to Heeresstruktur 4 saw a lot of changes. And some H4 Jägerbatallions like Jägerbattalion 532/Euskirchen used M113 instead of Unimog (the sister unit 531/Ahlen used U1300 "2to" Unimog). There was no rhyme and rythem to the units being active (531) or just a cadre (532) - other Territorial Army (Territorialheer) brigades had it the other way round with the M113 based unit active.
Pulling no punches at the end there. It's a shame the MOD still operates this way. I wonder how long it will be before you have an already retired AJAX in the museum?
These are the kinds of vehicles I want to see people talk about. Weird, obscure, underappreciated, these are the traits that make stuff interesting when there is already a ton of info for the standard, well known and appreciated stuff out there. Screw talking about the Tiger or Sherman or T-34, a thousand people already have and likely a thousand more will in the future. If you love those, that is fine... just don't expect me to care when video 1,001 about one of them comes out. Unless it is actually adding to the conversation with say, newly translated documents or something. edit: typos
Quite the story behind this vehicle, love the black and white clips you also add, which I've never seen before. Keep up the good work in telling these stories and the background behind them.
Actually the Bundeswehr has a good hit/miss ratio. The HS-30 is the only total loss. Starfighter was more a training issue and fixed once Mecki Steinhoff took over. Puma MIGHT be a bad one but not sure. OTOH we had M41/M47/M48 that where "best to get" in their time (and the M48 upgrade was a solid tank well into the cold war), Marder, Leo 1 and Leo 2, M109 (THE standard 155mm howitzer), Iltis, Wolf, Unimog 404 and 1300, Luchs, LARS, the MAN gl... Air force had F4, Fiat G91, Tornado and yes Eurofighter. I am no fan of the prancing pink unicorn but the flying Nintendo does the job it was ordered for. Lack of spares is NOT the problem of the weapon system. Bo 105 PAH.1 (light anti tank helicopter) and Tiger PAH-2 work fine WITHIN the parameters they where ordered for (War against the Red Storm in Western Europe) G3, P1, MG3, G36 - all work fine. Again the "problems" of the G36 are misuse and wrong doctrin. The weapon is fine for the task it was ordered for (War against the Red Storm in Western Europe).
Yes, it wasn’t a great early Cold War APC, but it was still an interesting and important AFV from the 1950s and 1960s. I’m still hoping that Revell of Germany will release a 1/35 scale plastic kit. Especially the “Lang” version. Yes, there is a resin kit, but it needs way too much work to make it look correct.
I'm quite tempted to say Gaijin When??? But with only a 20mm you know they'd throw it in at 3.3 or something facing Shermans and Stuarts. Edit: that version with the recoiless rifle would work actually, and justify a suitable BR.
I appreciate that you must advertise for your shop etc to support the museum and to be able to make more such videos in the future. Fair enough. But if you have to do this, can you please stop doing it in such an annoying and irritating way?
Interesting that the Germans were the first ones that invented the infantry fighting vehicle and yet it took the Soviets with their BMP-1 to really kick it off.
The German Marder was pretty much in parallel devellopment to the BMP, so while the sovjets were the first to deploy them and get them ready, germany would have gone the IFV route no matter what.
David should perhaps check in with Chris or someone on some of the pronunciation. But once again, fascinating detail about a vehicle whose existence had completely passed me by!
This vehicle contrasts well with the american bradley, one took forever to get into service, while the other was fairly rapid. would be cool to see a "pentagon wars" esc movie about this thing and the scandals.
@@zafranorbian757 May be an early version of "Stahl auf der Heide" - a museum/show event where they show both museum vehicles and running german army tanks
It is an IFV so more like the Marders or Bradleys older half brother. And it was designed in a time when every one expected lots of nukes and chemicals on the west german battlefield. So the main weapon was the Panzer not the Infantry. That changed with the next restructuring of the german army (They had 4 structures between 1956 and 1990...)
Hydrogas absolutely fine - since the last couple of British MBT use it. I've a car with hydrolastic and it rides as well as a modern car. No issues with it at all.
mhmm my entire knowledge of German military comes from TV series, movies, Hearts of Iron 4, Company of Heroes and Band of Brother... I have never seen that vehicle though.
Very interesting..... The attempted blags for Patreon support are slightly grating... But not as grating as H pronounced as "haitch". Nor as grating as "Hispanio". Not all strange, foreign words in romance languages end with the "io" vowel pairing. It may seem as if they do, but they don't. A very interesting video, but grating.
That is a good procurement and teething story to know. I quite like the low profile and armor (though the sides and rear could be thicker, to handle ambush by Soviet 14.5 mm anti-tank rifles and machine guns), but I want a mobile Christie suspension, outside the hull, with a lot of small road wheels to reduce ground pressure, sprockets front and back to keep the treads in line, and the tracks from the Swedish Igv 91. A diesel engine for more torque and a twelve-speed automatic transmission with all gears both forwards and reverse, and full independent tread control in first gear for zero turn-radius. (More road wheels so that if some are shot through, shattered, or torn off, it can keep driving, like a Churchill. Twelve speed transmission with four gears in three ranges for maximum acceleration, braking, and fuel economy; and much more speed out of the engine! Christie to cross terrain.) The turret and armament are fit for purpose, and if I have to exit and enter through the top, I am glad if I can grab and roll in relatively easily.
I don't know about Germany, but I work for the govt. in the States and we won't even let vendors buy us lunch, due to the fear that the public may perceive it as illegal favoritism.
I see folks complaining about the so-called “interruptive editing” in the comments section but I say the service you guys provide on a historical context alone grants you the right to advertise your “merch ” and other means viewers can help to support the work and public service you guys/girls provide.
![[UNCUT] “บอสณวัฒน์” ลากไส้!! ใครหนุนหลัง "แม่ตั๊ก ป๋าเบียร์" I คนดังนั่งเคลียร์ I 30 ก.ย. 67](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QlD7mU2KKRk/mqdefault.jpg)
A German humorist (Herbert Hiesl) of 60ies Fame had a Bundeswehr program, which featured the HS 30: ‚yesterday the guy, who gets our coffee collided with an APC. Nothing happened to our coffee, but it took 4 hours, until we could free the driver from under the debris of the HS30‘
In the early eighties I was soldier of the Bundeswehr and there were some of these still in service in medical batallions. They were nicknamed "Schlagloch Suchgerät" (pothole finder)
Good 👍 where they belong
🤣
Musta felt great on the crews backs !
@@ozzy7763 must´ve felt great for anyone actually injured...even if just by accidents
Pothole finder , like it..
It's really an Anti-Personnel Carrier. Designed to encourage soldiers to get out and walk instead.
*exhales firmly* lol
lol I like a really dry comment , well said!!!
Glorious joke is glorious!
*Preussens gloria intensifies* XD
The American M-113 was a RPG magnet. So much so, American troops weren't exactly thrilled to see them in Vietnam. The American Army ended up using it anyway in large numbers, and in a number of variants, including one armed with a 20mm Vulcan gatling gun for the air defense role, and another that had a TOW missile launcher.
Lol
Gotta love Hispano-Suiza's business model - get a big order, build a piece of crap that doesn't work, then make your customer pay you 40 million to stop building them.
You'd think the bribes etc. would have been enough to nullify the contract, not reward the company.
West Germany should have nullified the contract with an assault team.
Leave it to the swi... the neutral central Europe, to milk a dry rock. They always find a way.
The yanks did a far better con job with the supply of the F104 starfighter. Blood on their hands, let alone green!
Basically the model for all government procurement.
Wait until the Elbonians hear about THIS one.
The soldier on the left at 0:31 looks like he's got dismounting figured out yet.
Lies and corruption in the Military Industrial Complex? Who'd have thunk it?
Designer: "Are you sure you want a 20mm gun on it."
German general: "What part of light German tank don't you understand?"
As for the firepower: The canon vents it's gas into the rather small and badly ventilated turret. One of the reasons the 20mm Rh-202 on Marder is externally mounted
well, thanks, have not heard about that before
interesting. taken in conjunction with the defects mentioned in this film, and the scandal and corruption, this would be a perfect vehicle for the elbonian military.
@@kenbrown2808 wonder how many people will understand the comment.
@@paulcdot more than you might think😉
@@paulcdot we'll have to see how much overlap there is with Tank Museum fans and Gun Jesus fans.
so the suspension breaks if it goes too fast, but the motor is too underpowered to get it going that fast. sounds like a self-correcting problem. it also sounds like a perfect one to have David Fletcher describing.
To be fair, hasn't this been the case for many machines over the years as well as being an effective way of going about things.... just look at limiting the revs on car engines so the valves never have to operate faster than they are able as one example. And I don't just mean military stuff.
Sounds British.
My father served in the West German Army from 62-68 most of the time with the Panzergrenadiers. When I picked his brain about this, that and the other, he described, with his Bavarian sarcasm the HS.30 as - "being slightly better than horseshit, but not as good as the hay wagon the horse is pulling"
It's too bad because visually it's a very pretty vehicle. Even though it was from the sixties, it had more armor than m113, a more powerful gun, and a turret that protected the gunner. Imagine how many m113 Gunners would have been killed in the Firepower drenched NATO vs. Warsaw Pact scenario. A 20 mm Cannon and a small profile on paper makes this vehicle look good, too bad it was a mess inside the engine and transmission, as well as the procurement process
@68K It was not designed in germany... Germany later DID design it's own IFV the Marder (later Marder 1 - there was a Marder 2 that did not make it past prototype due to end of the cold war). THAT is still a quite nice vehicle more than 40 years after it entered service.
I'm really not thrilled with the new interruptive editing. I still love the content. I hope I can visit again eventually.
Likewise. I appreciate that the Tank Museum needs to raise funds, but the recent editing looks amateurish and a bit *too* eager to get it's hands on my money, especially with Richard Smith's breathless manner.
I'd normally watch any tank chat all the way through, but now if it's about a vehicle that doesn't interest me much I shut the video down when the promo cuts in.
I'm in two minds, as I have mastered the fast forward button, but would prefer these segments to be at the start and the end as they used to be. It's a fair point you make.
Its a small price to pay for good content. If we all chipped in they wouldn't have to do in-video ads.
It wouldn't be as jarring on a longer video, it's sometimes difficult for me to reset my thoughts after the distraction. Maybe a more laid back mini ad like we have seen on the backyard Q and A would do.
@@andrewbellavie795 As an educator, I certainly understand that educational resources like Bovington need funding from the public. I have, actually bought items from the Tank Museum and even visited in 2019. (I'm from the US.) My frustration is that 1. It's annoying and that 2. I wouldn't want to send my students to a video knowing it's studded with advertisements.
As a former officer in the Bundeswehr, I say, a piece of crap, many thanks to Franz Josef Strauss, then Minister of Defense, also for the Starfighter.
My History teacher back in the late ninties served as an Reserve Officer Candidate in the late sixties. He said this vehicle was a nightmare!
The nomenclature for the different types of Panzergrenadier-units was:
PzGren (mot) - trucks (Unimog)
PzGren (MTW) - M113
PzGren (SPZ) - AIFV (HS30 later Marder)
"They go to Leyland in Britain..." - times were indeed hard.
LOL !
Leyland built large numbers of Centurions
The super-duper, multi-fuel, all-singing, all-dancing Buck Rogers engine was one half of the Chieftain's problems. The other was the transmission, which, iirc, wasn't strong enough to handle the power on those notable occasions the engine could be coaxed into actually sort of working.
My father drove a 1980s Jaguar 4.2l sedan for many years. Loved the car, did road trips to Sweden with it (we lived in Germany then), never had a problem. Until, after just over 200,000 miles, the gearbox failed catastrophically. Dealership ordered a replacememt, the same model was still being made. But when they tried installing it, they found that the manufacturer - Leyland - had made a minor change in the mounting points without telling anyone *and without changing the model number or designation at all* and the new gearbox was not compatible with the car.
Leyland...
Yes, home of the Birmingham screwdriver (a hammer). In all seriousness, I'm under the impression they got shafted on the Chieftain engine and have never been forgiven. NATO stipulated it needed to be multifuel and everyone was to do the same, no one else could do it (or even tried) so they didn't bother, only the UK carried on and you got the wonderful Chieftain engine. There were lots of shenanigans around the EM2 bullpup, NATO round and FAL too, British aviation probably had to deal with the dirty tricks/cash in brown paper bags brigade too. The "special relationship" was special indeed.
@@christopherreed4723 Can beat you on that. An allegro company car that ate 6 gearboxes and reduced its owner to tears because he thought it was something he'd done. Turns out the thing was fitted with the wrong box from new, that ate its input shaft bearing because the shaft was just a couple of mike too long... Dealer just took the part number and replaced it repeatedly with the wrong part. Finally got the right box was right as rain. Dad never bought another BL vehicle (one of his jobs was company cars).
Oddly my Wolseley 18/85 is extremely reliable.
The mid video ad is really disruptive and ruins the flow of the video.
"75mm elevation, down 10mm" - degrees I guess.
0:32:For the guy on the left, I think in a second or two that will hurt...
YEET!
Underpowered engine and over stressed transmission, name a more iconic duo for German engineering.
...yeah I got nothing
He doesn't pull his punches with this one. Wonder how Mr. Fletcher would have phrased it?
No, but they learned how to produce the next generation of vehicles. Knowing Germans those Schützenpanzers would have been followed by a broad sample of the rich German vocabulary of uncouth phrases.
The so called: "Berliner Klappe."
I wonder how Lloyd (Lindybeige) would phase it....
@@anthonyjackson280 Hopefully never because he doesn´t do anything that could be considered research
at 0:30 the guy on the far left...makes me wonder 1) why he fell off 2) I hope he didnt get hurt too badly then again at 1:15 makes me think the right side of this vehicle had a serious "slip and fall" design issue
Was thinking the exact same thing, sloped armour is great for protection, less great for disembarking
And, because it always rains in Germany, any relatively smooth or down sloping surface will be a major slipping hazzard.
I like the how the guy in the turret in both pictures is looking on... 😋
LOL! Check out the poor chaps trying to get out of the halftrack @ 3:28! 😋
Must be a German tradition. 😋
Great video spoiled by the pop up interruptions for advertising Tank Museum products - Not Good at all!! Ruins the whole chat. Please put product placement either at the very beginning, or at the very end...
Thats the old german ww2 spirit: ordering a untested vehicle with a underpowered engine and transmission problems.
In this case more the old bavarian corruption...
nah, thats high level corruption of conservatives.- The CDU/CSU was in office at the time and their minister of defense, Franz Josef Strauß, turned out to be one of the most corrupt politicians germany ever had.
„Looks a bit tired around the gilles“ - what a lovely description.
A "Schützenpanzer" is not an "armoured personnel carrier" but a infantry fighting vehicle. It's role is not to carry soldiers around, but to fight alongside them (and tanks) in the field. So it doesn matter how many soldiers it can carry, as long as it can carry enough and keep them safe.
The German doctrine (and therefore the concept of the vehicle) ist explained at 3:20
I noticed you have an M548 Cargo Carrier to the left on the screen. I'm surprised it isn't broke down out in the middle of nowhere. Those things had a consistent, relentless, and almost magical propensity to have mechanical difficulty when you were furthest from any maintenance crew, recovery vehicle, or anyone who could render any assistance, and always when the weather was at its absolute worst.
Funnily enough, the Museum uses their M548s regularly for "Tank rides" around their arena and they do a pretty good job of it!
@@RWJP Of course. It's not being used by soldiers in the field. See, that's the nature of this beast - it performs well for an audience, but as soon as you put it to its intended use it's attitude changes to "screw you for bringing me out here, and since I have to suffer, so will you."
Given that they use two of them for rides around the arena, they're about as close as you can get to recovery vehiicles, maintenance crews, and anyone who can render assistance.
@A Fels Well played, sir.
Edit: I got curious, so I checked - the M548 is built by the Italian firm Oto Melara, while Landrover-Jaguar is a subsidiary of Tata, and Indian company. They both probably have plenty of reason to be angry with the U.S. and/or the U.K.
@@Skorpychan There you go.
0:39 Guy on left in very strange position.. I hope he landed alright..
Great content once again. BUT PLEASE do not interrupt the video midway with an AD of any sort.
This is the 3rd time that this has happened.
Lol shaddup
You should ask for your money back.
Why does the first historical image we see of that thing have some poor dude falling off of it
Set us up for disappointment
Because there's always a Carl or a Karl somewhere.
Later photo seems to show him ‘landing’ in an equally disastrous fashion
Great chat as usual from Willey - but please god move the promo stuff to the end of the video and stop interupting the flow of the video.
100%
They do it intentionally, otherwise people just don't watch the beginning or end. They are a charity trying to get through the pandemic, just deal with it.
You don't understand how advertising works, do you...
And please not the male Lisa Cuddy. He's got all the charisma of a clapped out Nissan Bluebird and a walking advert for celibacy. PUT THE BEGGING AT THE END, OR YOU'LL LOSE VEIWERS.
Brutally honest, good that these things are said. Marvellous as always.
In all honesty though it's irrelevant by this time
@@samholdsworth3957 Still happening today. See Ajax and F35. Gotta be some brown envelopes there. Underperforming equipment.
The defence industry? Corrupt? I. AM. SHOCKED.
It annoys me to no end to keep hearing Hispanio-Suiza. It's Hispano. No i.
Its a British thing, they love throwing extra letters into words, just like with aluminum.
@@upyoursassmonkey you mean aluminium? :-)
I was wondering if the dismount technique displayed on the left of the picture at 0:35 was compliant to TTPs, and considering the later description... it might have been.
I guess they loved it.
It could spoil the merits of a very low profile toward a low signature the worsening of the acoustic emissions due to Your soldiers swearing all the time.
But it does look good seen from a comfy chair.
0:32 what’s that guy on the left doing? :)
Please take out the adds in the middle of the video it is most annoying put them at the end.
It's a shame it wasn't any good because it certainly looked like it ought to be.
the very basic concept seems really good to me, but that it was just very badly executed.
@@blockstacker5614 agreed, I think that's a fair assessment.
@@blockstacker5614 The germans would go through three more sets of designs and prototypes before they got it right. I do not know if Bovington has a Marder 1 IFV but the development process of that one would be a one hour video. And an example of "how to do it right" including giving them to the troops with the order to "ride them so hard that they break, then tell us what to fix to stop them breaking"
Interspersing shots from other angles of the vehicle and inside the vehicle (when that's possible given condition) while the talking head is talking would be an improvement. Shouldn't increase the editing load by much to splice those in
I would certainly like to see the internals, a view you're not always able to get when visiting the collections in person.
I hope the SPZ (kurz) Hotchkiss is covered in the next Vid.
After i left the military i relocated to the next (bigger) City 35 km from Home because bigger city has better nightlife = more fun, they had a Garrison in Göttingen plus a Training ground and i often was hiking on the training ground, they had 3 hard targets there 1x M-47 and 2x H.S.30 and i often climbed thru the back door into the H.S.30s inside it was like in a Sardine Can, thought it must be horrible to be in a HS30 driving around for hours with 5 men plus G3 and full equipment.
'It didn't have a happy service life' 'It was built in Leyland, UK' No wonder it had problems.
German Panzergrenadier units (and some Jäger units) ended up using M113 APC. That in turned "killed" the mortar carrier version of Marder since the M106 style mortar carriers work and are in service
Let's hope they get replaced soon .. Maybe with a Boxer and Cobra (RUAG) mortar.
In the interrim period, until the PzGren units welcomed the new Spz Marder in 1971/1972 that ended the HS30 fiasco. Jäger units continued to use M113. (And also Spz Marder, as Jaeger soldiers were often deployed into Panzergrenadier units and vice versa, at least around 1980)
@@waltrohrbach2459 I know. Heeresstruktur 3 to Heeresstruktur 4 saw a lot of changes. And some H4 Jägerbatallions like Jägerbattalion 532/Euskirchen used M113 instead of Unimog (the sister unit 531/Ahlen used U1300 "2to" Unimog). There was no rhyme and rythem to the units being active (531) or just a cadre (532) - other Territorial Army (Territorialheer) brigades had it the other way round with the M113 based unit active.
Variants include a 90mm canon armed casemat tank (prototype only) and a Raketenjagdpanzer with SS11 (deployed)
Pulling no punches at the end there. It's a shame the MOD still operates this way. I wonder how long it will be before you have an already retired AJAX in the museum?
These are the kinds of vehicles I want to see people talk about. Weird, obscure, underappreciated, these are the traits that make stuff interesting when there is already a ton of info for the standard, well known and appreciated stuff out there.
Screw talking about the Tiger or Sherman or T-34, a thousand people already have and likely a thousand more will in the future. If you love those, that is fine... just don't expect me to care when video 1,001 about one of them comes out. Unless it is actually adding to the conversation with say, newly translated documents or something.
edit: typos
Bad APC, but great piece of history! Thanks for all the research and presentation as always.
Very interesting, and a vehicle I knew very little about. Must get back to the rank museum again!
It must smell awful in there!
Sorry, just a little joke. Had to be done
The Bovington Rank Museum is partnered with the Stank Museum in the USA, and the Kubinka Mank Museum
@@Masada1911 I’m not even going to change it now 😂😂
@@marmite8959 😂😂
Nobody gonna mention the guy falling off the back @ 0:38 ‽
8:39 75 mm elevation against helicopters? And 10 mm depression? LOL I think you meant degrees AKA 75° elevation and 10° depression
Quite the story behind this vehicle, love the black and white clips you also add, which I've never seen before. Keep up the good work in telling these stories and the background behind them.
The begining of a long series, of Bundeswehr procurement failiures.
Actually the Bundeswehr has a good hit/miss ratio. The HS-30 is the only total loss. Starfighter was more a training issue and fixed once Mecki Steinhoff took over. Puma MIGHT be a bad one but not sure.
OTOH we had M41/M47/M48 that where "best to get" in their time (and the M48 upgrade was a solid tank well into the cold war), Marder, Leo 1 and Leo 2, M109 (THE standard 155mm howitzer), Iltis, Wolf, Unimog 404 and 1300, Luchs, LARS, the MAN gl...
Air force had F4, Fiat G91, Tornado and yes Eurofighter. I am no fan of the prancing pink unicorn but the flying Nintendo does the job it was ordered for. Lack of spares is NOT the problem of the weapon system. Bo 105 PAH.1 (light anti tank helicopter) and Tiger PAH-2 work fine WITHIN the parameters they where ordered for (War against the Red Storm in Western Europe)
G3, P1, MG3, G36 - all work fine. Again the "problems" of the G36 are misuse and wrong doctrin. The weapon is fine for the task it was ordered for (War against the Red Storm in Western Europe).
Sounds like a perfect vehicle for Elbonia!
this thing almost looks like an early german version of the BMP-1
It is older so it might have inspired the BMP-1.
Look at the left side of the first black and white photo there is a guy who is in the process of falling off
A truly excellent presentation dealing with the vehicle and its wider context. Mr Willey's videos just get better and better.
The interruptions make me less inclined to support the museum rather than more so.
Have you supported the museum before?
Yes, it wasn’t a great early Cold War APC, but it was still an interesting and important AFV from the 1950s and 1960s. I’m still hoping that Revell of Germany will release a 1/35 scale plastic kit. Especially the “Lang” version. Yes, there is a resin kit, but it needs way too much work to make it look correct.
The Schützenpanzer (lang) HS 30 is not an APC, it's an IFV. You even describe the IFV concept during the video, yet you keep using the wrong term.
I'm quite tempted to say Gaijin When??? But with only a 20mm you know they'd throw it in at 3.3 or something facing Shermans and Stuarts.
Edit: that version with the recoiless rifle would work actually, and justify a suitable BR.
I appreciate that you must advertise for your shop etc to support the museum and to be able to make more such videos in the future. Fair enough. But if you have to do this, can you please stop doing it in such an annoying and irritating way?
Thats's how Franz-Josef Strauß got filthy rich as then MoD.
The whole HS 30 affair is really interesting
Interesting that the Germans were the first ones that invented the infantry fighting vehicle and yet it took the Soviets with their BMP-1 to really kick it off.
The German Marder was pretty much in parallel devellopment to the BMP, so while the sovjets were the first to deploy them and get them ready, germany would have gone the IFV route no matter what.
Honestly, no IFV to date has actually lived up to its promise or expectations. They are always great in concept, mediocre in use.
@@garyowens7454 Marder has had an extreamly good service live, it is also hard to find anything vad about the Italian Dardo.
The Heuler was mass produced. Just bad due to corruption
Well that's because this one was terrible and the BMP-1 is a very good vehicle.
The first picture of the schtutzenpanzer showed it with original German body armor attached. Six of them . 😁
David should perhaps check in with Chris or someone on some of the pronunciation. But once again, fascinating detail about a vehicle whose existence had completely passed me by!
This vehicle contrasts well with the american bradley, one took forever to get into service, while the other was fairly rapid. would be cool to see a "pentagon wars" esc movie about this thing and the scandals.
Yeah, except the bradley actually turned into a pretty solid vehicle. This one, seems to be a bit of a dogs lunch.
For Christ sake please stop your own adverts popping up half way through - at the beginning and end is just fine, we get it, you need dosh.
Great video. We had one of those standing around in the barracks where I served and I always wondered what vehicle it was
I wonder if we will see a similar tank chat about Ajax in a few years?
Your German is brilliant, Sir.
Again a very interesting video. Thanks.
I would like to know if there is a difference between the IFV and the APC, in the true since of the terms.
My favourite photo is of that doofus falling off the tank.
Looking at the pictures of men dismounting I think that acrobats would make good infantry.
Given the size: DWARFEN acrobats
1 m113 with 10 guys or 2 of these with 2 20mm and ten guys. Well assuming you have the reliable version.
Unreliable and too complicated. Sounds like the perfect German AFV to me.
lol, you give the elevation of the gun in mm instead of degrees. 8:40
lelelel
I feel for the guy falling in first photo at 00:38 :P
It reminds me the E-type troop carrier.
I would love to see more videos from the director, not just ads!
Lol shaddup
15:30 I wonder what the Pz. IV is doing there.
It's in muntser, where the tank museum is, maybe they needed a working tank ;-)
@@flyingpotatoe1 Oh so it is Frederike.
But my question was more why is it on that open field with the HS 30 driving by.
@@zafranorbian757 May be an early version of "Stahl auf der Heide" - a museum/show event where they show both museum vehicles and running german army tanks
An APC that only carries 5 soldiers? That is really inefficient.
It is an IFV so more like the Marders or Bradleys older half brother. And it was designed in a time when every one expected lots of nukes and chemicals on the west german battlefield. So the main weapon was the Panzer not the Infantry. That changed with the next restructuring of the german army (They had 4 structures between 1956 and 1990...)
But is it better than the AJAX?
At this rate we may never know!
Schützenpanzer!!!! love all these APCs they been doing super fascinating history behind this which ya never hear!
Scandal! Excellent as always!
Hello all.
Tank chat alert boys!
As soon as you said 'Leyland', I knew it was doomed. Probably had the same suspension as the Allegro..
Hydrogas absolutely fine - since the last couple of British MBT use it. I've a car with hydrolastic and it rides as well as a modern car. No issues with it at all.
mhmm my entire knowledge of German military comes from TV series, movies, Hearts of Iron 4, Company of Heroes and Band of Brother... I have never seen that vehicle though.
Did any notice the soldier falling in picture?
Yes.
It’s AJAX’s prototype but better !
Very interesting.....
The attempted blags for Patreon support are slightly grating...
But not as grating as H pronounced as "haitch".
Nor as grating as "Hispanio".
Not all strange, foreign words in romance languages end with the "io" vowel pairing. It may seem as if they do, but they don't.
A very interesting video, but grating.
That is a good procurement and teething story to know.
I quite like the low profile and armor (though the sides and rear could be thicker, to handle ambush by Soviet 14.5 mm anti-tank rifles and machine guns), but I want a mobile Christie suspension, outside the hull, with a lot of small road wheels to reduce ground pressure, sprockets front and back to keep the treads in line, and the tracks from the Swedish Igv 91. A diesel engine for more torque and a twelve-speed automatic transmission with all gears both forwards and reverse, and full independent tread control in first gear for zero turn-radius.
(More road wheels so that if some are shot through, shattered, or torn off, it can keep driving, like a Churchill. Twelve speed transmission with four gears in three ranges for maximum acceleration, braking, and fuel economy; and much more speed out of the engine! Christie to cross terrain.)
The turret and armament are fit for purpose, and if I have to exit and enter through the top, I am glad if I can grab and roll in relatively easily.
Wasn't that just a side-product of the CDU getting its election campaign funded?
I don't know about Germany, but I work for the govt. in the States and we won't even let vendors buy us lunch, due to the fear that the public may perceive it as illegal favoritism.
This one had armor and firepower, and came up short in mobility.
The next one was better. Marder 1 got the mix quite right. Marder 2 (only prototype) was an even better thing and a real monster of an IFV.
isnt an m113 aluminum?
Fantastic video, so interesting and well produced,
I see folks complaining about the so-called “interruptive editing” in the comments section but I say the service you guys provide on a historical context alone grants you the right to advertise your “merch ” and other means viewers can help to support the work and public service you guys/girls provide.
If they just gave it a quad cannon to stop it looking so toy like plenty of pygmies would of ordered enough of them to keep up the blackmail payments.
Really interesting video! Wow, that thing is low!
If you have the mortar variant, why didn't you film that as well? That sad-looking one in the video isn't much to look at.
@0:34 is that s soldier FALLING OFF upper left of vid? Cheers!!