One of the worst was a retcon to a retcon that made Magneto not the father of Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch. They along with Polaris and Luna made up one of marvels all time great family dynamics and they pissed all over it just to spite Fox films. It hurt every character involved and had no upside whatsover.
Mario world N.Y I hope not. Scarlet Witch has been far more interesting and refreshing than she has been in years now that she is free of that Magneto retcon. That is one retcon I sincerely hope stays.
Quesada's One More Day was such an unnecessary and stupid idea. If you wanted a divorce just do a divorce. Don't destroy decades of stories just to satisfied your ego.
They didn't want a "divorce" they wanted Spider-man marriage free. That's what they tried to do with the Clone Saga, give us a Spider-man who was marriage free AND keep the Peter + MJ relationship. Because the marriage was so popular. But they completely fucked that up so they decided, "Fuck it, we're magicing our way out of this". Though imo even attempting that in the first place is what made me stop buying Spider-man comics.
Stranzinski brought up a divorce bit was told that because the movies were out and Mary Jane was the love interest they had to be romantically together but not completely togather... So for years they were married but semi separated trying to work it out because of editorial bs then one more day came though
Why am I not surprised? Of course the two most hated Marvel Stories would be the two most hated Spider-Man stories: One More Day and Sins Past. One erased decades of good character development and progression while the other sullied the name of a beloved character. Might as well add Clone Conspiracy to the list as it brought back a favorite character who died years earlier, but turned him into a bad guy for absolutely no reason.
Jordan Scott the arc the mediocre to me. The only thing I enjoyed about it was the interaction between Peter and Gwen, but everything else wasn't that great. My complaint through that whole arc was how Bullshit it was for Ben to be the Jackal. In the recent Scarlet Spider comic; however, he's an asshole, but hopefully Death (ironically) will bring him back to the right path of being a lovable hero.
+Deadpoolrockz6 yeah he's an asshole but he's also a good asshole. For instance he's trying infiltrate the gang of vegas to take them down, all the while curing the boss's daughter of her sickness at the same time. He's still a good guy especially with him helping Protege, Ricochet, and dusk fight cyber. And his convincing of death to revive Kaine. So yeah he's an asshole but he went along way already from clone conspiracy to now
Agreed, like ben reilly was pretty cool and I would love to have him back to team up with kaine and peter to fight someone but nope they basically made ben into jackal which is like so bullshit it ruined ben reilly for me. Sipder-man comics have just gone to shit like damn the only good stories my man has is ends of the earth, spiderverse, and maybe the spock arc (docotor octopus taking spidermans body)
Noel Jr Irizarry well, Superior Spider-man might have been the catalyste for all the bad Spider-Man comics written by Dan Slott, but don't worry. I heard that he might be leaving after Amazing Spider-man #797 I think.
Another retcom that I find stupid is that "Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are not Magneto's children and neither mutants. They're humans whose DNA was modified by the High Evolutioner and Magneto fooled them because he wanted them in his Brotherhood". Come on, Marvel, come on.
Sheldon Sempai Actually they are not just humans. The High Evolutionary came seeking "special" children for his experiments and was directed toward the twin infants of a witch living nearby. That Witch was their mother, the previous Scarlet Witch.
Didn't remember that, thanks. But I think they're just homo sapiens. Humans can be magicians too, just remember about Doom or Strange. But it's still an unnecessary change, because I really liked the relationship between Magneto and his children. I hope this is just like the "Hail Hydra" thing, something that the High Evolutioner has done just for fooling them. Or another deus ex machina that Marvel likes to do.
Why did Magneto want them in his Brotherhood of MUTANTS if they weren't mutants but experimented humans? Then again, the Brotherhood did have Juggernaut.
You're right. Marvel is unable to create anything new. That was a major reason I stopped reading them. They couldn't write new stories, so they resorted to gimmicks. "Let's kill off a classic character we don't know how to write for to sell a few more issues! Let's humiliate minor villains we don't like in the "Deadly Foes" idiotic series. Let's pretend Captain America was really a Nazi! Let's erase 20 years of comics history to reboot the series!" These are moves of desperation, not creativity...
Because people want to make their work serious, grounded, and realistic so they can't get stupid awards and happy couples that fall in love at sight isn't realistic, couples who hate each and take TOO LONG TO GET TOGETHER to the point that you stop carrying about thier relationship is though.
I just want to point out that Scarlet Witch and Quick Silver only had an inappropriate relationship in the Ultimate Universe. In all others they are a normal brother and sister superhero team.
Changing Puck from a person suffering from Dwarfism with all the real-life issues that can come with it to a person who's short and suffers because of magical reasons sadly removed a very unique and relatable character from comics.
The sad Thing... both Sentry and Romulus could've worked so well, if they'd just stayed focused on what mattered. Think about it: - House of M ends and Wolverine gets his memory back and he remembers everything, including the mastermind behind Weapon X so he sets out for revenge and not only does he find him, he also finds out that not only that Logan was willingly working for him all that time, from all the wars he fought even going through the experiment willingly, but also that he was nothing more than the prototype for Romulus himself and from that the story starts to unfold further and further - or with Sentry, a normal human suddenly becomes "Superman" and starts to become this ultimate superhero and also influences all those other Marvel heroes, but the further it goes the more he becomes afraid of his own power he starts to realize how much he drifts away from humanity and before going all "Injustice" decides to remove himself from everything he makes everyone; and I mean EVERYONE, forget him and lives in hiding, secluded from the world... BUT NOW HE'S BACK! ... how the f*ck can you mess this up?!?! Well leave it to Marvel to find a way... *SMH*
How about: who is the father of Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver? Obviously, the Whizzer because Quicksilver's superspeed came from his dad. No, wait, it's Magneto because Quicksilver's hair came from his dad. No wait, it's the High Evolutionary because mutants are icky.
Sean MacDonald Currently: Their power come from the magic inherited from their mother, but much more powerful than her because of the experiments the High Evolutionary did that augmented them. Their mother was also known as Scarlet Witch, an inherited part of their bloodline. She battled supernatural evil in eastern Europe and was friends with a member of the monster-hunting Bloodstone family(Elsa Bloodstone's family). The couple that raised the Maximoff twins were actually their Aunt and Uncle, an Uncle who had also inherited a bit of the the Scarlet Witch's family magic. It is still not clear who their father was, but he is the one who ultimately killed their mother.
Tell me about it. Or better yet, tell Linkara that. At least he knows how bad that story was and probably tell you how it could've ended up even worse...
One More Day was actually what caused me to give up on comics for the most part. Why would the good guy go to Marvel's version of the devil to make a deal? I couldn't get past that. Of course temptation makes for a good story idea, but the ending to the story is just something that shouldn't have happened. All done because the Editor In Chief at that time didn't want married super heroes. But it's what ultimately made me realize that endless retcons were the normal thing now and that being involved in the stories didn't matter any longer, because all it would take is someones decision to wipe out a character's history.
And you are very right, Brain. I , too, have given up on comics. LOOK AT ALL THE REBOOTS, ENDLESS retcons and now with, the Disney plus SUPERHERO STREAMING series, they are doing A LOT OF RETCONS. Bastardized and ruined true comic book ORIGIN stories now make Disney dictating that CANON is their superhero movie version. The comic book stories are now declared by Disney/Feige [which fans still think he is hotcrap. He isn't. He doesn't care about the fans, which is why the Xmen now have a backseat] TO...NOT...BE....CANON... Sound familiar? HOW ABOUT THE STAR WARS reboot movie sequels declaring that the "books" of the Extended Universe for year we read, ARE NO LONGER CANON. this is what happens when CASH STRAPPED MARVEL made a deal with the devil and SOLD THEIR RIGHTS to movie studios Sony, Warner Hoes, and later, Disney!!!
What they did with Gwen Stacy in Sins Past totally killed the character for me, I couldn't respect her anymore after that. It's still the worst comic I know. The unbeliaveble anger that I've felt I honestly don't wish upon nobody else. This story alone had killed 50% of my love for comic book heroes.
Hate the writer, not the character. *The real* Gwen Stacy would never betray Peter let alone sleep with the father of her best friend. Spider-Gwen was actually created as apology for screwing her character over.
I'd like to, but after that I simply can't look at her with the same way I used to. I don't hate her nowadays, but like I've said, Sins Past totally killed her for me. I just don't care at all about what happen to her after that. =/
Very shallow minded of you bro, Tony Stark pulled a bunch of shit that dwarfs Gwen's infidelity by a landslide. *But* I still love Tony Stark you've gotta separate characters from their stories sometimes.
Li-Li Mandragon Don't hate the writer. The writer intended to give Peter a chance at some parenthood stories. The editors vetoed this toward the end of the story and twisted it into a Norman/Gwen rape story cause they didn't want Peter to have kids.
Seriously? Let me count the ways: It is absolutely idiotic to trade your wife's life for your 102 year-old aunt's. Peter Parker finally got married with a woman he loved, a process that literally took decades and really gave readers a wonderful feeling for their hero, and then the writers wiped ALL of that away. Peter Parker, the hero whose entire motivation is based on the knowledge that with great power comes great responsibility, makes a deal with Marvel's freaking version of the DEVIL?!?! Talk about action completely contrary to the character's very nature! The writers might as well have had him kill a few babies for fun while they were at it! Aunt May ALREADY died in Amazing Spiderman #400 and he handled it just fine, accepting it and going on with his life. Granted, they later retconned that to be a genetically altered actress' death (GAG), but that doesn't change the fact that it was amply shown that Peter didn't cling to his Aunt in a psychotic, insane "I'll sacrifice anyone I love to give her another year of life at the very most!" fashion. Last, it was a simple gunshot wound that led her to death's door. To suggest that the only way to heal someone who got shot in the MARVEL UNIVERSE is by making a deal with the Devil is so utterly ridiculous that it beggars belief! This was a horrendously impossible, utterly idiotic situation set up because the writers wanted to erase the marriage, and boy did it ever show!
Romulus is a throwaway villain that was allowed to do serious damage. It was such a bad idea. I try not to think about Scarlet Witch's children. It just makes no sense. And the Iron Man that was just like WTF. John Sublime and Romulus can both be excised from the Weapon X mythos. One More Day was one of the biggest garbage decisions ever! Gwen Stacy was another one of the WTF moments too and I just pretend it didn't happen. Maximum Clonage is a complete clusterf*ck.
The one I hate the most is retconing the Maximoff twins to not be Magneto's kids just to fit more with the MCU and distance themselves from the FOX films. A lot of fans just flat out ignore that it happened because it ruins such an interesting family dynamic.
Surprised to see that Wanda & Pietro being retconned not Mutants to fit in line with the movies (after the initial retcon that made them Mutants) left off this list. That was a hot topic. Oh, and Fury Sr having a kid, Fury Jr who just so happens to look like Sam Jackson (and 1610 Fury) to fit into the movies as well. To the point where his kid even lost the same eye as him. Sigh.
Marvel wanting everything to be like the movies is so dumb. like, just the dumbest. It's like whoever's in charge of these things doesn't realise that THE MOVIES ARE COMICS ARE SEPERATE CANONS and trying to make one match the other IS FUCKING STUPID AND RUINS YEARS OF CONTINUITY
Sara Fontanini Not to mention some of these unnecessary retcons comes back even more pointless a few years later when Disney is roughly a year or so from regaining the rights to use Mutants in the movies, so retconning Wanda and Pietro was fucking pointless.
Wtf does "marvel wants everything to be like the movies" mean? It's more like marvel fans want the movies to depict what happens in the comics... (cause marvel has tried to mix characters differently than in the comics and to mix up storylines or even create new ones altogether) But yeah although we might be a bit too attached to our good old comic canon, every one is aware the comic book earths (earth 616 mainly) are not the same as earth 199999, which is the MCU. Especially Marvel, as it is their world... But anyway while it does happen, comics being changed to match the movies is far from the norm, and in this case doubt on Pietro and Wanda's origins, especially their parentage, had been thrown way before they appeared in the movies... And the High Evolutionary's involvement was well known as well. Plus retcons happen all the time and as we've sadly seen with the Hydra Cap run, marvel can do whatever the f it wants. It's not stupid to want the main comic book storylines to be depicted on the big screen (which is the way it mostly goes...), they're storylines we're attached to and we've loved and that we'd like to see more of and to see played out in movies. Sure new stories are interesting as well, but for comic book fans we know so much about these characters already and love so many things about them, that we want those things to be represented in movies so other people can enjoy them as well. It is a hard line to walk for the scriptwriters because on the one hand, you're introducing new movies characters to new fans, but on the other hand, you're bringing characters to life who have a lot of history and a lot of fans. Even the other way around makes sense, because if you've only just discovered marvel through the movies and decide to give the comics a try only to find a completely different lore, you're gonna be pretty disappointed... Also, continuity was ruined a veeeeery long time ago, as shown by the many many retcons...
@@sarafontanini7051 The movies are adaptations of the comics, so they'd want to match what happens. However, retconning the original comics to match the changes in adaptations is bad. If they want to make them match, then don't make unnecessary changes to the adaptations in the first place.
I loved how everyone suddenly made the distinction between HYDRA and Nazis shortly after. By the way, that Cap that fought in WWII, got frozen, led the Avengers, had the Civil War with Tony, he's still evil.
Naw, we'd had two versions of Hydra for quite awhile. Mostly so Madam Hydra could be an on again off again anti-hero. That version was a death cult with connections to The Hand, the other was all Nazis. Also nope, because Evil Cap was never 616 Cap the Cosmic Cube created an entire universe where that Cap was from and then they pulled him into 616. So he's still not original Cap, even though technically neither is current Cap either because he's sort of a memory homunculus made real.
the_smershed Hatter187 ...Yeah, I know. He was written as the villain. ...Oooooooh! You misunderstood and thought I was talking about Cap being evil during the Civil War! No.
Hydra Cap could wield Mjolnir because he was worthy when he picked it up. By the end of the story he lost his faith in his worthiness, and could no longer wield the hammer. Worthiness is not a consistent trait, nor is it contingent on being good. It's about believing in something greater than yourself, and striving towards that goal. Hydra Cap started with that, believing the world would be better under a fascist Hydra. He lost his way, though, when Hydra started doing things he didn't like, and he began to believe he was the only one who should be in charge.
And the way it was done, with Jean Grey going to past Iceman and pushing him to admit he's gay and then going to present-day Iceman and forcing him out of the closet. If failed relationships is an indicator of sexual orientation, what's that say about Daredevil and Iron Man? I wasn't shocked; I was somewhat offended.
VonWenk The only way that retcon really makes any kind of sense at all is that Jean Grey incepted being gay into Bobby's mind and that should be offensive to all parties.
Yeah well Claremont was pretty unhappy with it, especially as it was to be the end for Jean, set up a point for Scott to get off the ride and allow pretty much for X-Characters to retire happily. All of which are things that didn't happen.
Both Jean's death and resurrection can be layed at the feet of Marvel's then Editor and Chief Jim Shooter. During the Dark Phoenix Saga, Shooter had demanded that she die to pay for the crimes of the Phoenix, including wiping out an entire race. Claremont agreed, despite his original plan to have Jean survive, be depowered, and her and Cyclops marry. And he agreed, that in the end Jean's suicide in order to end the threat of the Phoenix made it a better story. Then, flash forward a few years, and X-Men is Marvel's best selling book, so they green light spin-off books, including X-Factor, which will feature the original X-Men team, including a resurrected Jean Grey. But Shooter insisted that Jean could only be brought back if it was done in a way that exonerated her of the crimes of the Phoenix. Hence the whole, the Phoenix had placed Jean in a healing cocoon while it assumed her identity and took her place, retcon.
Everything they've done with the Phoenix Force since has diminished the saga. Think about it, the Dark Phoenix was created because it became corrupted by emotion... Almost as if The Phoenix had NEVER had a host before...
I would say the multiple resurrections of Jean Grey and the Phoenix over the past 37 years have diminished the impact of the story. Most of Jean Grey's family is still dead though, right?
What a world we live in where the 90s Clone Saga and Norman Osborn’s resurrection are no longer in the Top 10 Worst Marvel Retcons (personally, I’ve always believed Osborn’s Return is exactly what the franchise needed).
SAPProd Like I said above (still?), The Clone Saga was such a botch in itself that it led to the garbage listed on their own & undid a classic finale for a character that deserved a heartbreaking passage into legend.
yeah, for all the problems of bringing Osborn back, it well...brought him back, and let's face it, he's easily SPidey's best villain, a combination of the Joker and Lex Luthor with his own unique traits.
We got plenty of good stories because Norman Osborn came back (with the exception of a story that shall not be named), so that more than made up for it.
Yah, Gabby Rivers and Mark Wade's twitter accounts show this isn't a legend, it's just a fact. Marvel Comics doesn't police their public image for shit and the most vocal of their staff are the ones who denigrate their core demographic.
Here we go, CAPTAIN AMERICA BEING HYDRA IS NOT A RETCON. A retcon is when you take preexisting information and history and either change it to make sense in a current environment or change it so it coexist with new information. if Cap was always Hydra without any cosmic interference from Red Skull, THAT is a retcon, because it changes the info were previously knew, that he was always an American soldier Red Skull using a cosmic cube to force cap to believe he was always hydra is not a retcon, it's "The Story"
rajabuta except it didn't really, which is why Zemo had no memories of Cap and him being "friends" because it never actually happened. Everything that Evil Cap is or believed was fabricated, Red Skull says so himself. No real history was changed or altered, only the history in evil caps head is different from everything else
rajabuta I've read it's extensively thank you very much. You should read Captain America Steve Rogers though, where Red Skull LITERALLY TELLS HIM EVERYTHING HE KNOW AND BELIEVES IS MADE UP. Red Skull didn't alter world history with the cosmic cube, just this doppelganger Steve Rogers, that's the only things that was truly changed, everything else was untouched.
Made up by the cosmic cube. Not brainwashing. Kobik changed his life.Madame Hydra from his past is there, so are the others. Red skull wasn't effected probably because he's the one changing things. You should read the comic where Cap and his doppleganger is talking in prison to each other. PS: Hydra cap is real cap. The doppleganger is the memory cap aka good cap. Or to be more precise, a construction of what Kobik thinks he is/should be. Kobik herself tells him this in the comic.
Squirrel Girl: I stole a Cosmic Cube just like you wanted. Deadpool: Are you pondering what I am pondering? Squirrel Girl: Today, we are going to reboot the multiverse! Deadpool: Chimichangas for all...
no that was magneto pretending to be xorn pretending to be another guy pretending to be magneto preendign to be xorn pretending to be xorn pretending to be a steak sandwich also, check Floating Hands Studios' X-Men parodies
That was more Morrison dropping the ball than anything else. Xorn as Magneto made no sense. Powers didn't match, appearances didn't match. For him to then turn around and say "I'll have him mass murder humans in New York in gas chambers" and to think that would stick, no wonder Marvel said "No". The worst part was Morrison tried to back peddle out of it himself in the next story by saying Sublime made him do it.
His New X-men run was really patchy, it had some of my all time favourite bits in, and then some absolutely atrocious stuff... But then that could be said about Grant Morrison's run on just about anything (except for Doing Patrol, that was pretty amazing all the way through).
+pious83 You don't understand how comics are created if you think Morrison "backpedaled" out of a story a few issues later. By the time artwork started on that Magneto issue, the entire series' scripts were already finished.
I really wish that in Sins Past (Gwen having twins with Norman) that Peter was the father. Would have loved where that story would have gone instead of the craptastic story we got. And Norman’s O face. That still gives me nightmares.
I guess we're not going to talk about Marvel turning Happy Hogan from a lovable palooka into a fashion plate that Pepper Potts falls in love with. Because all good-guys have to be perfect looking.
Not really no. JMS has been on record multiple times saying he was against OMD and it wasn't his idea. It was Quesada's and he was contractually forced to write it, and even then, Quesada rewrote huge sections of the story. And the Stacey/Osborn children weren't his idea either. The Stacey children were, but he planned for them to be Peter's biological kids. He was forced by editorial to change who the father was, and by that point he figured the story was going to be written out of continuity by OMD anyway.
Ancestor Empire, um. *points to the list* there are always bad ideas that aren't seen through. That is literally comics writing. Any character you can name has those moments because they've been around for decades and hundreds of writers. Being mediocre now days is the same as being mediocre whenever...its mediocre. For all of the amazing comic runs anyone can name, it seem like people forget there are literal thousands that were either unmemorable or so bad as to never be discussed again. Its the law of averages.
I'd add in DC using thr NU-52 to retcon Capt. Marvel from a sincere, compassionate, friendly, humble and happy hero into an angsty, angry, arrogant emo-punkard with an ugly hooded outfit and a lightning bolt shaped hole in his chest named Shazam.
The Captain Hydra story line lasted a full year, and the Cosmic Cube was what caused the change in the first place. So it lasted a whole lot longer than you give it credit for. It was also nothing more than a story arc...and not a bad one either.
I hate one more day I hate it hate it why won’t one more day just go away because it’s been 10 years of bullshit with Spider-Man and his supporting cast
oh it was bad really bad that it made one more day even worse which i didn't know that was possible but they found a way in fact i highly recommend you watch this th-cam.com/video/seaO1pZJI8o/w-d-xo.html
It was even worse when the real Cap showed up and defeated Hydra Cap, clearly showing he was the one and only Captain America. But he still wouldn't take the fucking shield!!! I'm so tired of Captain Falcon, he hasn't done anything to prove he is Captain America
Anyone else remember Captain America discovering Thor and Iron Man's secret identities during a battle with Molecule Man (during Jim Shooter's second run on Avengers in the early '80s) and then, later in the '80s (maybe during Acts of Vengeance), Cap apparently not knowing Iron Man and Tony Stark were one and the same?
The enemies that use MJ and May against Peter Parker the most and the most horrifically? The Marvel Writing Staff! Seriously, these yahoos should be dragged back to divorce court citing OMD as proof that they were even more maladjusted than their divorce trials indicated!
The Sentry's original miniseries, by his creator Paul Jenkins and with art by Jae Lee, was amazing. Subsequent hands have not handled him very well (looking at you, Bendis)
Loved the original series. Left me wondering if this was legit, or some poor white trash's tragic superhero fever dream (which was a brilliant bit of ambiguity). And was wrapped up in such a fashion as to have no impact on the Marvel universe. I'm more inclined to blame fans that celebrate power scaling over good writing.
You are correct, it was Master Pandemonium, not Mephisto. Mephisto is the one who split Master Pandemonium's soul into pieces, and forced him to go on a hunt to reassemble his soul. Also, Wiccan and Speed (in their superhero personas) were introduced years later.
To quote the late great philosopher Rick James "Cocaine is a hell of a drug" . They must have been doing a lot to come up with some of this stuff . Makes me less sad that I stopped collecting comics back in '96 .
How about the shitshow that was Emperor Vulcan? Not only did it destroy one of the best X-Men graphic novels of all time, but it also went a long ways towards destroying the characters of Cyclops and Professor X
The Marvel Comics 616 Universe needs a proper well done Reboot like a DC 1986 Crisis on Infinite Earths style Reboot with a touch of DC Rebirth in the aftermath to tidy up all the convoluted mess of it's continuity and history and tell more stories fans will love again. I personally also think it's time for Aunt May to go into that goodnight which is what Marvel Comics should have the balls to do the first time round before that One More Day Gobshite
Personally I don't think they have the talent to achieve such a reboot currently. That or it would be too geared towards the movies and permanently ruin the comics
No it absolutely does not. One of the best things about Marvel is that overall pretty much everything since it's inception is pretty much canon and they've never done a massive reboot. The whole reason DC did 'Crisis on infinity Earths' in the first place was to have a continuity like Marvel's.
I know everyone hates the clone saga, but issue 400 of Amazing was beautiful. If the had just let her go with respect then, there would be no One More Day. Tragic.
Mustafa Amin Yeah but that's not really a "most hated" retcon. And the Magneto father stories were all played out at this point. Magneto father was a retcon to the Maximoffs' story to begin with. It's actually been freeing and given them, Wanda especially, a much more refreshing chance at interesting stories.
I know it wasn't the most hated, but still it was a pretty unnecessary change in my opinion. They did it literally because of all the Marvel Studios and Fox shenanigans. I feel like if they kept it the same way, nothing would change. They just did it for the sake of making every Marvel property that's owned by Disney further away from the X-Men
Actually the Wolverine thing wasn't a new one, since in Earth X... Wolverine and all his kind of 'mutant' was never truly mutant as much as they were what primate were suppose to be without Celestial interference. They were always suppose to be at the very least an entire subset of mutants like the Neyaphem & Cheyarafim, regardless of what Romulus claims.
I hate the 'Spider-Woman: Origin' comic that retconned her origin and cut out her living in London and Magnus and The High Evolutionary and the New Men like they never happened. It also made her dad a villain and "revealed" that she killed her own mother. Fuck that comic.
Why would you insult someone when you clearly don't know what happened? Nick Spencer retconned Rogers so that he was originally a Nazi. The story is that Steve was ORIGINALLY working for Hydra and Hydra helped win WW2. The Cube rewrote history, making Steve Rogers into Cap--helping the Allies to win. Present day, the Cube undid that rewrite and brought the original Hydra Cap back. The Cap who defeated Hydra Cap was created from Kobik's memory of the 'good' Steve Rogers. The evil Hydra Cap still exists, in prison. So the Cap we all know and love is now Hydra aka a Nazi. The 'good' Cap, who has a comic and is about to be sent of to be a king in a dystopian future (because Marvel hasn't raped the character enough), is nothing more than a memory of Kobik's made real by the Cosmic Cube. Got all that? You're welcome.
Was anything actually retconned there? The writers kept zigzagging who was the clone and who was real, but it ended with Peter being real, so nothing was changed there.
What’s even more frustrating about the Phoenix retcon is that it’s an almighty cosmic entity and would have no problem dealing with all of the heroes but for some reason it just decided to blow itself up
Sins past dwarfs the other ones by exponential numbers. The story in itself is reason enough to fire the entire writing team, then send them into prison, then send the prison into the sun.
How about the late 90s, when they revised Spider-Man's origin so that Doc Ock's machine explodes, killing almost everyone, and irradiates the spider that then bites Parker. Needless to say, it was forgotten in a year.
Honorable Mentions: The Isaiah Bradley "Captain America" from the pretentiously titled "TRUTH" story. The Vision having the body of the original android Human Torch, then not, then so. The Hulk's merged persona (from Peter David's historic run on the comic) being called "the Professor" and being revealed to be yet another personality and not a cured Banner/Hulk. And finally, "James Howlet."
Secret empire, and especially the build up to it, was one of the best comic book stories I have read in a very long time. If you remove the fanboyish intransigence "characters can never change" BS you get an awesome story.
The Secret Empire storyline was really par for the course as far as comicbook arcs. Not really a retcon in the narrative sense because they were using an in-story device to explain. Plus, Spencer did some good work during that era.
3:26 Rumors are that he fused with both his hero and villain self. A perfectly balanced being...that decides to leave this world, becuase he's too powerful.
Lol. I saw OMD at number 2 and was wondering why it wasnt number 1. Then I saw Sins Past. Damn you for making me remember that. I'd successfully erased that from my memory till now. Did not need this reminder at all.
I am Surprised Trouble was not listed here.. The Miniseries, That had, Aunt May having an affair with Richard, And being Peter's Real Mother and giving her to Mary for her to raise as her own son. One More Day Is Just Revenge from Mephisto When Spidey Beat him in that 90s Christmas annual.... Least that makes a little more sense.... One More Day still Sucks...
Sire Kumasutra no they still existed after Secret Wars, it's just after cancelling the series they had Reed, Franklin and the others exploring the universe.
One of the worst was a retcon to a retcon that made Magneto not the father of Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch. They along with Polaris and Luna made up one of marvels all time great family dynamics and they pissed all over it just to spite Fox films. It hurt every character involved and had no upside whatsover.
Marvel's INSISTENCE on trying to match the movies for no goddamn reason is fucking stupid
Mario world N.Y I hope they do but it's hard to say.
Sara Fontanini That's one of the flaws about Marvel comics.
Mario world N.Y I hope not. Scarlet Witch has been far more interesting and refreshing than she has been in years now that she is free of that Magneto retcon. That is one retcon I sincerely hope stays.
+ScionStorm Hope you are wrong because this retcon make me boycott every Marvel product.
Quesada's One More Day was such an unnecessary and stupid idea. If you wanted a divorce just do a divorce. Don't destroy decades of stories just to satisfied your ego.
They kinda went that route with the Magic Divorce. It's like divorce, but with 100 times more bullshit.
QUESADAAAAAAA!!!!
This comment wins.
They didn't want a "divorce" they wanted Spider-man marriage free. That's what they tried to do with the Clone Saga, give us a Spider-man who was marriage free AND keep the Peter + MJ relationship. Because the marriage was so popular. But they completely fucked that up so they decided, "Fuck it, we're magicing our way out of this". Though imo even attempting that in the first place is what made me stop buying Spider-man comics.
Stranzinski brought up a divorce bit was told that because the movies were out and Mary Jane was the love interest they had to be romantically together but not completely togather... So for years they were married but semi separated trying to work it out because of editorial bs then one more day came though
Why am I not surprised? Of course the two most hated Marvel Stories would be the two most hated Spider-Man stories: One More Day and Sins Past. One erased decades of good character development and progression while the other sullied the name of a beloved character. Might as well add Clone Conspiracy to the list as it brought back a favorite character who died years earlier, but turned him into a bad guy for absolutely no reason.
+Deadpoolrockz6 but clone conspiracy was good. And he's not a bad guy right now either he's an anti hero.
Jordan Scott the arc the mediocre to me. The only thing I enjoyed about it was the interaction between Peter and Gwen, but everything else wasn't that great. My complaint through that whole arc was how Bullshit it was for Ben to be the Jackal. In the recent Scarlet Spider comic; however, he's an asshole, but hopefully Death (ironically) will bring him back to the right path of being a lovable hero.
+Deadpoolrockz6 yeah he's an asshole but he's also a good asshole. For instance he's trying infiltrate the gang of vegas to take them down, all the while curing the boss's daughter of her sickness at the same time. He's still a good guy especially with him helping Protege, Ricochet, and dusk fight cyber. And his convincing of death to revive Kaine. So yeah he's an asshole but he went along way already from clone conspiracy to now
Agreed, like ben reilly was pretty cool and I would love to have him back to team up with kaine and peter to fight someone but nope they basically made ben into jackal which is like so bullshit it ruined ben reilly for me. Sipder-man comics have just gone to shit like damn the only good stories my man has is ends of the earth, spiderverse, and maybe the spock arc (docotor octopus taking spidermans body)
Noel Jr Irizarry well, Superior Spider-man might have been the catalyste for all the bad Spider-Man comics written by Dan Slott, but don't worry. I heard that he might be leaving after Amazing Spider-man #797 I think.
Another retcom that I find stupid is that "Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are not Magneto's children and neither mutants. They're humans whose DNA was modified by the High Evolutioner and Magneto fooled them because he wanted them in his Brotherhood". Come on, Marvel, come on.
Sheldon Sempai Actually they are not just humans. The High Evolutionary came seeking "special" children for his experiments and was directed toward the twin infants of a witch living nearby. That Witch was their mother, the previous Scarlet Witch.
Didn't remember that, thanks. But I think they're just homo sapiens. Humans can be magicians too, just remember about Doom or Strange.
But it's still an unnecessary change, because I really liked the relationship between Magneto and his children. I hope this is just like the "Hail Hydra" thing, something that the High Evolutioner has done just for fooling them. Or another deus ex machina that Marvel likes to do.
Why did Magneto want them in his Brotherhood of MUTANTS if they weren't mutants but experimented humans?
Then again, the Brotherhood did have Juggernaut.
Marvel can't seem to write stories that go forward anymore. so they just keep re-writing over their past.Badly.
At least it isn’t as bad as Rebirth
You're right. Marvel is unable to create anything new. That was a major reason I stopped reading them. They couldn't write new stories, so they resorted to gimmicks. "Let's kill off a classic character we don't know how to write for to sell a few more issues! Let's humiliate minor villains we don't like in the "Deadly Foes" idiotic series. Let's pretend Captain America was really a Nazi! Let's erase 20 years of comics history to reboot the series!" These are moves of desperation, not creativity...
What is it with writers not liking happily married couples? It's not just in comic books, but EVERYTHING. It's a lazy way to create conflict.
Because people want to make their work serious, grounded, and realistic so they can't get stupid awards and happy couples that fall in love at sight isn't realistic, couples who hate each and take TOO LONG TO GET TOGETHER to the point that you stop carrying about thier relationship is though.
What about Mr. and Mr. Weasley. They were happily married.
I just want to point out that Scarlet Witch and Quick Silver only had an inappropriate relationship in the Ultimate Universe. In all others they are a normal brother and sister superhero team.
Brother and sister superhero teams are normal?
BulletTooth504 The only other one I can think of is the wonder twins. Well, it's more normal than incest anyway.
Point taken.
There's also Northstar and Aurora, and the Power Pack.
arcanask also Cyke and Havoc on the X-men together and Rogue and Nightcrawler. Those last two I'd love to see on a team together more.
Changing Puck from a person suffering from Dwarfism with all the real-life issues that can come with it to a person who's short and suffers because of magical reasons sadly removed a very unique and relatable character from comics.
Also in a comic about mutants having someone with a real actual mutation in addition to super powers was... interesting.
Nothing said about making Northstar & Aurora fairies?
Let's face it everybody knew One More Day would be on here
The sad Thing...
both Sentry and Romulus could've worked so well, if they'd just stayed focused on what mattered.
Think about it:
- House of M ends and Wolverine gets his memory back and he remembers everything, including the mastermind behind Weapon X
so he sets out for revenge and not only does he find him, he also finds out that not only that Logan was willingly working for him all that time, from all the wars he fought even going through the experiment willingly, but also that he was nothing more than the prototype for Romulus himself and from that the story starts to unfold further and further
- or with Sentry, a normal human suddenly becomes "Superman" and starts to become this ultimate superhero
and also influences all those other Marvel heroes, but the further it goes the more he becomes afraid of his own power
he starts to realize how much he drifts away from humanity and before going all "Injustice" decides to remove himself from everything
he makes everyone; and I mean EVERYONE, forget him and lives in hiding, secluded from the world...
BUT NOW HE'S BACK!
...
how the f*ck can you mess this up?!?!
Well leave it to Marvel to find a way...
*SMH*
+Doctor Swood wait how'd they screw up sentry?
Never comment again
One More Day can die in a fire! Given how much marvel has alluded to it recently, I need them to do something to fix it
How about: who is the father of Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver? Obviously, the Whizzer because Quicksilver's superspeed came from his dad. No, wait, it's Magneto because Quicksilver's hair came from his dad. No wait, it's the High Evolutionary because mutants are icky.
Sean MacDonald Currently: Their power come from the magic inherited from their mother, but much more powerful than her because of the experiments the High Evolutionary did that augmented them. Their mother was also known as Scarlet Witch, an inherited part of their bloodline. She battled supernatural evil in eastern Europe and was friends with a member of the monster-hunting Bloodstone family(Elsa Bloodstone's family). The couple that raised the Maximoff twins were actually their Aunt and Uncle, an Uncle who had also inherited a bit of the the Scarlet Witch's family magic. It is still not clear who their father was, but he is the one who ultimately killed their mother.
Spider-Man: One More Day
I hated the retcon were Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch are not mutants even though their father Magneto is a mutant in his own right
*eye twitch*
That wasn't a shitstorm. That was a shit hurricane of retconning.
Tell me about it. Or better yet, tell Linkara that. At least he knows how bad that story was and probably tell you how it could've ended up even worse...
Dark Tales Production Somebody needs to fire Quesada out of a cannon.
One More Day was actually what caused me to give up on comics for the most part. Why would the good guy go to Marvel's version of the devil to make a deal? I couldn't get past that. Of course temptation makes for a good story idea, but the ending to the story is just something that shouldn't have happened. All done because the Editor In Chief at that time didn't want married super heroes. But it's what ultimately made me realize that endless retcons were the normal thing now and that being involved in the stories didn't matter any longer, because all it would take is someones decision to wipe out a character's history.
And you are very right, Brain. I , too, have given up on comics. LOOK AT ALL THE REBOOTS, ENDLESS retcons and now with, the Disney plus SUPERHERO STREAMING series, they are doing A LOT OF RETCONS. Bastardized and ruined true comic book ORIGIN stories now make Disney dictating that CANON is their superhero movie version. The comic book stories are now declared by Disney/Feige [which fans still think he is hotcrap. He isn't. He doesn't care about the fans, which is why the Xmen now have a backseat] TO...NOT...BE....CANON... Sound familiar? HOW ABOUT THE STAR WARS reboot movie sequels declaring that the "books" of the Extended Universe for year we read, ARE NO LONGER CANON. this is what happens when CASH STRAPPED MARVEL made a deal with the devil and SOLD THEIR RIGHTS to movie studios Sony, Warner Hoes, and later, Disney!!!
Remember when Marvel managed to get Wizard Magazine and Newsarama to gaslight their audiences for Sentry hype? Fun times.
What they did with Gwen Stacy in Sins Past totally killed the character for me, I couldn't respect her anymore after that. It's still the worst comic I know. The unbeliaveble anger that I've felt I honestly don't wish upon nobody else. This story alone had killed 50% of my love for comic book heroes.
Hate the writer, not the character. *The real* Gwen Stacy would never betray Peter let alone sleep with the father of her best friend. Spider-Gwen was actually created as apology for screwing her character over.
I'd like to, but after that I simply can't look at her with the same way I used to. I don't hate her nowadays, but like I've said, Sins Past totally killed her for me. I just don't care at all about what happen to her after that. =/
Very shallow minded of you bro, Tony Stark pulled a bunch of shit that dwarfs Gwen's infidelity by a landslide. *But* I still love Tony Stark you've gotta separate characters from their stories sometimes.
A massive overreaction to a comic book, congratulations
Li-Li Mandragon Don't hate the writer. The writer intended to give Peter a chance at some parenthood stories. The editors vetoed this toward the end of the story and twisted it into a Norman/Gwen rape story cause they didn't want Peter to have kids.
Surprised Magneto not being the Maximoff twin's father anymore wasn't on here
One More Day is the WORST!
Nope,Disney buying Marvel is the worst :(
DabFaceKillah i guess
DabFaceKillah Do we need a problem?
I really don't get why people hate it so much.... And how can you hate it more than the fact that Osborn had babies with Gwen ?
Seriously? Let me count the ways: It is absolutely idiotic to trade your wife's life for your 102 year-old aunt's. Peter Parker finally got married with a woman he loved, a process that literally took decades and really gave readers a wonderful feeling for their hero, and then the writers wiped ALL of that away. Peter Parker, the hero whose entire motivation is based on the knowledge that with great power comes great responsibility, makes a deal with Marvel's freaking version of the DEVIL?!?! Talk about action completely contrary to the character's very nature! The writers might as well have had him kill a few babies for fun while they were at it! Aunt May ALREADY died in Amazing Spiderman #400 and he handled it just fine, accepting it and going on with his life. Granted, they later retconned that to be a genetically altered actress' death (GAG), but that doesn't change the fact that it was amply shown that Peter didn't cling to his Aunt in a psychotic, insane "I'll sacrifice anyone I love to give her another year of life at the very most!" fashion. Last, it was a simple gunshot wound that led her to death's door. To suggest that the only way to heal someone who got shot in the MARVEL UNIVERSE is by making a deal with the Devil is so utterly ridiculous that it beggars belief! This was a horrendously impossible, utterly idiotic situation set up because the writers wanted to erase the marriage, and boy did it ever show!
Romulus is a throwaway villain that was allowed to do serious damage. It was such a bad idea. I try not to think about Scarlet Witch's children. It just makes no sense. And the Iron Man that was just like WTF. John Sublime and Romulus can both be excised from the Weapon X mythos. One More Day was one of the biggest garbage decisions ever! Gwen Stacy was another one of the WTF moments too and I just pretend it didn't happen. Maximum Clonage is a complete clusterf*ck.
The one I hate the most is retconing the Maximoff twins to not be Magneto's kids just to fit more with the MCU and distance themselves from the FOX films. A lot of fans just flat out ignore that it happened because it ruins such an interesting family dynamic.
And it didn't even stop Fox from using Quicksilver and establishing him as Magneto's son.
Surprised to see that Wanda & Pietro being retconned not Mutants to fit in line with the movies (after the initial retcon that made them Mutants) left off this list. That was a hot topic.
Oh, and Fury Sr having a kid, Fury Jr who just so happens to look like Sam Jackson (and 1610 Fury) to fit into the movies as well. To the point where his kid even lost the same eye as him. Sigh.
Marvel wanting everything to be like the movies is so dumb. like, just the dumbest. It's like whoever's in charge of these things doesn't realise that THE MOVIES ARE COMICS ARE SEPERATE CANONS and trying to make one match the other IS FUCKING STUPID AND RUINS YEARS OF CONTINUITY
Sara Fontanini Not to mention some of these unnecessary retcons comes back even more pointless a few years later when Disney is roughly a year or so from regaining the rights to use Mutants in the movies, so retconning Wanda and Pietro was fucking pointless.
Wtf does "marvel wants everything to be like the movies" mean? It's more like marvel fans want the movies to depict what happens in the comics... (cause marvel has tried to mix characters differently than in the comics and to mix up storylines or even create new ones altogether) But yeah although we might be a bit too attached to our good old comic canon, every one is aware the comic book earths (earth 616 mainly) are not the same as earth 199999, which is the MCU. Especially Marvel, as it is their world... But anyway while it does happen, comics being changed to match the movies is far from the norm, and in this case doubt on Pietro and Wanda's origins, especially their parentage, had been thrown way before they appeared in the movies... And the High Evolutionary's involvement was well known as well. Plus retcons happen all the time and as we've sadly seen with the Hydra Cap run, marvel can do whatever the f it wants.
It's not stupid to want the main comic book storylines to be depicted on the big screen (which is the way it mostly goes...), they're storylines we're attached to and we've loved and that we'd like to see more of and to see played out in movies. Sure new stories are interesting as well, but for comic book fans we know so much about these characters already and love so many things about them, that we want those things to be represented in movies so other people can enjoy them as well. It is a hard line to walk for the scriptwriters because on the one hand, you're introducing new movies characters to new fans, but on the other hand, you're bringing characters to life who have a lot of history and a lot of fans.
Even the other way around makes sense, because if you've only just discovered marvel through the movies and decide to give the comics a try only to find a completely different lore, you're gonna be pretty disappointed...
Also, continuity was ruined a veeeeery long time ago, as shown by the many many retcons...
The retcon that made them mutants? Weren't they first introduced in the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants in 1964?
@@sarafontanini7051 The movies are adaptations of the comics, so they'd want to match what happens. However, retconning the original comics to match the changes in adaptations is bad. If they want to make them match, then don't make unnecessary changes to the adaptations in the first place.
I loved how everyone suddenly made the distinction between HYDRA and Nazis shortly after. By the way, that Cap that fought in WWII, got frozen, led the Avengers, had the Civil War with Tony, he's still evil.
Naw, we'd had two versions of Hydra for quite awhile. Mostly so Madam Hydra could be an on again off again anti-hero. That version was a death cult with connections to The Hand, the other was all Nazis. Also nope, because Evil Cap was never 616 Cap the Cosmic Cube created an entire universe where that Cap was from and then they pulled him into 616. So he's still not original Cap, even though technically neither is current Cap either because he's sort of a memory homunculus made real.
the_smershed Hatter187
...Yeah, I know. He was written as the villain.
...Oooooooh! You misunderstood and thought I was talking about Cap being evil during the Civil War! No.
Apparently despite being Hydra that Cap could also wield Mjonir... for some reason.
Hydra Cap could wield Mjolnir because he was worthy when he picked it up. By the end of the story he lost his faith in his worthiness, and could no longer wield the hammer. Worthiness is not a consistent trait, nor is it contingent on being good. It's about believing in something greater than yourself, and striving towards that goal. Hydra Cap started with that, believing the world would be better under a fascist Hydra. He lost his way, though, when Hydra started doing things he didn't like, and he began to believe he was the only one who should be in charge.
Captain America was also evil in Avengers vs X-MEN.
What about changing Iceman from straight to gay? That did not float over and lead to a quickly cancelled series.
That was just for shock value and back fired.
And the way it was done, with Jean Grey going to past Iceman and pushing him to admit he's gay and then going to present-day Iceman and forcing him out of the closet. If failed relationships is an indicator of sexual orientation, what's that say about Daredevil and Iron Man? I wasn't shocked; I was somewhat offended.
she didnt push him to admit it, she turned him gay by telepathy..
VonWenk The only way that retcon really makes any kind of sense at all is that Jean Grey incepted being gay into Bobby's mind and that should be offensive to all parties.
They won’t touch that one. It’s too “sensitive”.
The Dark Phoenix retcon diminished the impact of the saga.
Yeah well Claremont was pretty unhappy with it, especially as it was to be the end for Jean, set up a point for Scott to get off the ride and allow pretty much for X-Characters to retire happily. All of which are things that didn't happen.
Both Jean's death and resurrection can be layed at the feet of Marvel's then Editor and Chief Jim Shooter. During the Dark Phoenix Saga, Shooter had demanded that she die to pay for the crimes of the Phoenix, including wiping out an entire race. Claremont agreed, despite his original plan to have Jean survive, be depowered, and her and Cyclops marry. And he agreed, that in the end Jean's suicide in order to end the threat of the Phoenix made it a better story. Then, flash forward a few years, and X-Men is Marvel's best selling book, so they green light spin-off books, including X-Factor, which will feature the original X-Men team, including a resurrected Jean Grey. But Shooter insisted that Jean could only be brought back if it was done in a way that exonerated her of the crimes of the Phoenix. Hence the whole, the Phoenix had placed Jean in a healing cocoon while it assumed her identity and took her place, retcon.
A2 Yep, but they had a new book to push, so that's that.
Hmm, selling books through cheap shocks. I see a pattern here...😲
Everything they've done with the Phoenix Force since has diminished the saga. Think about it, the Dark Phoenix was created because it became corrupted by emotion... Almost as if The Phoenix had NEVER had a host before...
I would say the multiple resurrections of Jean Grey and the Phoenix over the past 37 years have diminished the impact of the story. Most of Jean Grey's family is still dead though, right?
Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver not being mutants just so they could appear in the Avengers
that movie version in the comes they change their origin storyline not being Magneto's children.
I wasn't talking about the movie version.
What a world we live in where the 90s Clone Saga and Norman Osborn’s resurrection are no longer in the Top 10 Worst Marvel Retcons (personally, I’ve always believed Osborn’s Return is exactly what the franchise needed).
SAPProd Like I said above (still?), The Clone Saga was such a botch in itself that it led to the garbage listed on their own & undid a classic finale for a character that deserved a heartbreaking passage into legend.
yeah, for all the problems of bringing Osborn back, it well...brought him back, and let's face it, he's easily SPidey's best villain, a combination of the Joker and Lex Luthor with his own unique traits.
the 90s clone saga was pretty dope tho it was such a great idea i was on the edge of my set wondering if spidey was a clone the whole time
The Clone Saga made me cancel my subscription to Wizard and swear off comics for almost a decade. lol.
We got plenty of good stories because Norman Osborn came back (with the exception of a story that shall not be named), so that more than made up for it.
Only the editors wanted Peter and MJs relationship changed. For most of us he had been married since we first started reading Spidey comics.
not only, it was the best relationship in comics history. I mean, mj was for sure the most important supporting character of Marvel
Wolverine having bone claws, Spider-man being a clone, Alicia Masters being a Skrull, and Lockjaw being a person shaped like a dog.
Legend has it they don't care about there fans
Lego-league_master thank god legends are fake
Lego-league_master
U mean "rumors spread by middle school girls"*
Yah, Gabby Rivers and Mark Wade's twitter accounts show this isn't a legend, it's just a fact. Marvel Comics doesn't police their public image for shit and the most vocal of their staff are the ones who denigrate their core demographic.
So every company ever
Lego-league_master kinda figured that out when i heard about squirrel girl
Here we go, CAPTAIN AMERICA BEING HYDRA IS NOT A RETCON.
A retcon is when you take preexisting information and history and either change it to make sense in a current environment or change it so it coexist with new information.
if Cap was always Hydra without any cosmic interference from Red Skull, THAT is a retcon, because it changes the info were previously knew, that he was always an American soldier
Red Skull using a cosmic cube to force cap to believe he was always hydra is not a retcon, it's "The Story"
It wasn't a brainwash. The cube basically changed his life.
rajabuta except it didn't really, which is why Zemo had no memories of Cap and him being "friends" because it never actually happened. Everything that Evil Cap is or believed was fabricated, Red Skull says so himself. No real history was changed or altered, only the history in evil caps head is different from everything else
cosmic cube shenanigans. You sould read Captain America: Steve Rogers and Secret Empire #0 again
rajabuta I've read it's extensively thank you very much. You should read Captain America Steve Rogers though, where Red Skull LITERALLY TELLS HIM EVERYTHING HE KNOW AND BELIEVES IS MADE UP.
Red Skull didn't alter world history with the cosmic cube, just this doppelganger Steve Rogers, that's the only things that was truly changed, everything else was untouched.
Made up by the cosmic cube. Not brainwashing. Kobik changed his life.Madame Hydra from his past is there, so are the others. Red skull wasn't effected probably because he's the one changing things.
You should read the comic where Cap and his doppleganger is talking in prison to each other.
PS: Hydra cap is real cap. The doppleganger is the memory cap aka good cap. Or to be more precise, a construction of what Kobik thinks he is/should be.
Kobik herself tells him this in the comic.
Squirrel Girl: I stole a Cosmic Cube just like you wanted.
Deadpool: Are you pondering what I am pondering?
Squirrel Girl: Today, we are going to reboot the multiverse!
Deadpool: Chimichangas for all...
Xorn is Magneto... No wait, Xorn is Xorn.
spookyTwigg No wait! Xorn is....
decapitated.
no that was magneto pretending to be xorn pretending to be another guy pretending to be magneto preendign to be xorn pretending to be xorn pretending to be a steak sandwich
also, check Floating Hands Studios' X-Men parodies
That was more Morrison dropping the ball than anything else. Xorn as Magneto made no sense. Powers didn't match, appearances didn't match. For him to then turn around and say "I'll have him mass murder humans in New York in gas chambers" and to think that would stick, no wonder Marvel said "No". The worst part was Morrison tried to back peddle out of it himself in the next story by saying Sublime made him do it.
His New X-men run was really patchy, it had some of my all time favourite bits in, and then some absolutely atrocious stuff... But then that could be said about Grant Morrison's run on just about anything (except for Doing Patrol, that was pretty amazing all the way through).
+pious83 You don't understand how comics are created if you think Morrison "backpedaled" out of a story a few issues later. By the time artwork started on that Magneto issue, the entire series' scripts were already finished.
"Ahem!" (Pulls out scroll detailing every event from the past 5 years.)
I really wish that in Sins Past (Gwen having twins with Norman) that Peter was the father. Would have loved where that story would have gone instead of the craptastic story we got.
And Norman’s O face. That still gives me nightmares.
All of Wolverine origins and past history And Wanda and Quicksilver aren’t Magneto kids
I guess we're not going to talk about Marvel turning Happy Hogan from a lovable palooka into a fashion plate that Pepper Potts falls in love with. Because all good-guys have to be perfect looking.
Worth mentioning: you can thank J. Michael Strazynzski for those last two entries.
Not really no. JMS has been on record multiple times saying he was against OMD and it wasn't his idea. It was Quesada's and he was contractually forced to write it, and even then, Quesada rewrote huge sections of the story. And the Stacey/Osborn children weren't his idea either. The Stacey children were, but he planned for them to be Peter's biological kids. He was forced by editorial to change who the father was, and by that point he figured the story was going to be written out of continuity by OMD anyway.
Yep but I'm still not over Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch not being mutant anymore...
The worst retcon yet: Phoenix is thors mom. Worse than than one more day and hydra cap combined
Oh and Sentry should was an AMAZING character
Cap never turned evil though. Kobik altered reality and the real cap was stuck in the memory scape. The nazi cap was never real
which makes it even worse, at least admit you had a bad idea and see it through. Being Mediocre now a days is worse than being garbage
NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERD!
Christopher Lewis that makes it worse, the idea was bad, done by people who didn't get Captain America, at all, and nobody stopped them.
Ancestor Empire, um. *points to the list* there are always bad ideas that aren't seen through. That is literally comics writing. Any character you can name has those moments because they've been around for decades and hundreds of writers. Being mediocre now days is the same as being mediocre whenever...its mediocre. For all of the amazing comic runs anyone can name, it seem like people forget there are literal thousands that were either unmemorable or so bad as to never be discussed again. Its the law of averages.
And yet TLJ aka the new batman and robin was seen through development
I'd add in DC using thr NU-52 to retcon Capt. Marvel from a sincere, compassionate, friendly, humble and happy hero into an angsty, angry, arrogant emo-punkard with an ugly hooded outfit and a lightning bolt shaped hole in his chest named Shazam.
The Captain Hydra story line lasted a full year, and the Cosmic Cube was what caused the change in the first place. So it lasted a whole lot longer than you give it credit for. It was also nothing more than a story arc...and not a bad one either.
I bloody knew Gwen Stacy would be number 1
Turning Cap into hypocrite Nazi is one thing, but to shit on dear Gwen? That is actually unforgivable.
Li-Li Mandragon yeah well it is controversial marvel list Gwen stacey is number 1 for me
Me too, that wasn't sarcasm above ^
I hate one more day I hate it hate it why won’t one more day just go away because it’s been 10 years of bullshit with Spider-Man and his supporting cast
Tevya Smolka I'm having a hard time deciding which story is worse: One More Day or Sins Past
Tevya Smolka How bad was One Moment Left in Time?
oh it was bad really bad that it made one more day even worse which i didn't know that was possible but they found a way in fact i highly recommend you watch this th-cam.com/video/seaO1pZJI8o/w-d-xo.html
When you watch the video an hour after it comes out
Guy Gardener was once revealed to be part alien after he lost his ring and became named Warrior who could turns his body parts into weapons.
It was even worse when the real Cap showed up and defeated Hydra Cap, clearly showing he was the one and only Captain America. But he still wouldn't take the fucking shield!!! I'm so tired of Captain Falcon, he hasn't done anything to prove he is Captain America
Anyone else remember Captain America discovering Thor and Iron Man's secret identities during a battle with Molecule Man (during Jim Shooter's second run on Avengers in the early '80s) and then, later in the '80s (maybe during Acts of Vengeance), Cap apparently not knowing Iron Man and Tony Stark were one and the same?
"Gwen Stacy has twins with Norman Osborn."
Boy there's not enough whiskey in the universe to make that okay, is there?
Making Iceman gay for no reason
This could be called "Why I stopped buying comics", except this is after I stopped....
Thanks for including Romulus and that horrific lupine story written by Jeph Loeb. What a terrible character and storyline that was. Complete rubbish.
The enemies that use MJ and May against Peter Parker the most and the most horrifically? The Marvel Writing Staff! Seriously, these yahoos should be dragged back to divorce court citing OMD as proof that they were even more maladjusted than their divorce trials indicated!
"Doo-gan" not "duh-gan".
I liked the Sentry...
The Sentry's original miniseries, by his creator Paul Jenkins and with art by Jae Lee, was amazing. Subsequent hands have not handled him very well (looking at you, Bendis)
Loved the original series. Left me wondering if this was legit, or some poor white trash's tragic superhero fever dream (which was a brilliant bit of ambiguity). And was wrapped up in such a fashion as to have no impact on the Marvel universe.
I'm more inclined to blame fans that celebrate power scaling over good writing.
You should read Dr Strange, you will be pleasantly surprised
Too powerful. Marvel don't need a Superman.
I liked his storylines too.
Magneto's resurrections, clones and becoming young again...
Mags and Rogue dating and then getting back together again later...
I thought the kids were soul pieces of the villain Master Pandemonium.
You are correct, it was Master Pandemonium, not Mephisto. Mephisto is the one who split Master Pandemonium's soul into pieces, and forced him to go on a hunt to reassemble his soul. Also, Wiccan and Speed (in their superhero personas) were introduced years later.
I vaguely remember there was a Franklin Richards story involving pieces of Mephisto's soul.
Milkman Dan And now it's revealed Wiccan is destined to become the Demagorgue in his future!
To quote the late great philosopher Rick James "Cocaine is a hell of a drug" . They must have been doing a lot to come up with some of this stuff . Makes me less sad that I stopped collecting comics back in '96 .
I would say do a DC video but it would be hard to pick DC is like oh its Tuesday lets do a retcon haven't done 1 of those in about 20 minutes
It would still be fun.
Polaris Isn't Magneto's daughter. Actually she is. Nope she isn't. Wait, she is again!
How about the shitshow that was Emperor Vulcan? Not only did it destroy one of the best X-Men graphic novels of all time, but it also went a long ways towards destroying the characters of Cyclops and Professor X
The Marvel Comics 616 Universe needs a proper well done Reboot like a DC 1986 Crisis on Infinite Earths style Reboot with a touch of DC Rebirth in the aftermath to tidy up all the convoluted mess of it's continuity and history and tell more stories fans will love again. I personally also think it's time for Aunt May to go into that goodnight which is what Marvel Comics should have the balls to do the first time round before that One More Day Gobshite
Or let's not reboot because bad stories are going to happen anyway.
Personally I don't think they have the talent to achieve such a reboot currently. That or it would be too geared towards the movies and permanently ruin the comics
ULGROTHA yes they should stop the Gimmicks and only do Major Crossover Events like every 2 or 3 years
No it absolutely does not. One of the best things about Marvel is that overall pretty much everything since it's inception is pretty much canon and they've never done a massive reboot. The whole reason DC did 'Crisis on infinity Earths' in the first place was to have a continuity like Marvel's.
I know everyone hates the clone saga, but issue 400 of Amazing was beautiful. If the had just let her go with respect then, there would be no One More Day. Tragic.
8:35 Greatest comic book page I've ever seen. You can practically feel Spider-Man's pain.
Oh well. Nothing made by humanity has ever been 100% perfect.
I present to you... Ultron!
*Cough* They changed Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver so they wouldn't be Magneto's offspring *Cough*
Mustafa Amin Yeah but that's not really a "most hated" retcon. And the Magneto father stories were all played out at this point. Magneto father was a retcon to the Maximoffs' story to begin with. It's actually been freeing and given them, Wanda especially, a much more refreshing chance at interesting stories.
Thank you
I know it wasn't the most hated, but still it was a pretty unnecessary change in my opinion. They did it literally because of all the Marvel Studios and Fox shenanigans. I feel like if they kept it the same way, nothing would change. They just did it for the sake of making every Marvel property that's owned by Disney further away from the X-Men
Actually the Wolverine thing wasn't a new one, since in Earth X... Wolverine and all his kind of 'mutant' was never truly mutant as much as they were what primate were suppose to be without Celestial interference. They were always suppose to be at the very least an entire subset of mutants like the Neyaphem & Cheyarafim, regardless of what Romulus claims.
Neyaphem are Nightcrawer people and Cheyarafim are Angel's people
Shouldn't Nazi Cap been a story for an edition of What If!?
It only took me like 4 videos to realize all those Top 10s have the same content and WhatCulture probably owns 5 or so comics in total.
Every time someone uses the word "retcon" Jack Kirby's ghost cries and Stan Lee goes just slightly more crazy.
I hate the 'Spider-Woman: Origin' comic that retconned her origin and cut out her living in London and Magnus and The High Evolutionary and the New Men like they never happened. It also made her dad a villain and "revealed" that she killed her own mother. Fuck that comic.
The Beyonder.
Grabs chips
I will never forgive Quesada for OMD/OMIT.
Meanwhile DC did something logical and anticipated with Superman and Lois Lane’s relationship a while ago.
Wait... Captain America as a Nazi is only #4? Yeah, this list is bullshit. Should have been #1.
Shouldn't have made the list at all.
Except he wasn't... Did you actually read the comic ?
It shouldn't even be on the list. Kobik changed him into a hydra agent. It didn't change any history.
Not entirely sure, but I had the impression Nazi Cap tried to make Good Cap doubt who is real or not
Why would you insult someone when you clearly don't know what happened? Nick Spencer retconned Rogers so that he was originally a Nazi. The story is that Steve was ORIGINALLY working for Hydra and Hydra helped win WW2. The Cube rewrote history, making Steve Rogers into Cap--helping the Allies to win. Present day, the Cube undid that rewrite and brought the original Hydra Cap back. The Cap who defeated Hydra Cap was created from Kobik's memory of the 'good' Steve Rogers. The evil Hydra Cap still exists, in prison. So the Cap we all know and love is now Hydra aka a Nazi. The 'good' Cap, who has a comic and is about to be sent of to be a king in a dystopian future (because Marvel hasn't raped the character enough), is nothing more than a memory of Kobik's made real by the Cosmic Cube.
Got all that? You're welcome.
I hate One More Day.
On #2 I can only say one thing.....* Clears throat and prepares Linkara impression BETRAYAL
One More Day-- the story line that is guaranteed the make you hate Spider-man.
James Wade - did you do the graphics for this video?
Turn the spell checker back on.
Making Iceman gay. No point already had Northstar.
What about the Clone Saga? ☹️
Was anything actually retconned there? The writers kept zigzagging who was the clone and who was real, but it ended with Peter being real, so nothing was changed there.
Yah, most of us would gladly take the Clone Saga after the bullshit Marvel Comics has been dragging us through for the last 4 years.
What’s even more frustrating about the Phoenix retcon is that it’s an almighty cosmic entity and would have no problem dealing with all of the heroes but for some reason it just decided to blow itself up
I love that outro 😂❤
Clearly someone's been hitting the crack pipe again!
really? Cuz i was watching this late at night and that sudden screaming made me shat my pants with the force of a shotgun blast
I hated it.
Sins past dwarfs the other ones by exponential numbers. The story in itself is reason enough to fire the entire writing team, then send them into prison, then send the prison into the sun.
Wonderful video!
Thank God it was Jules
How about the late 90s, when they revised Spider-Man's origin so that Doc Ock's machine explodes, killing almost everyone, and irradiates the spider that then bites Parker. Needless to say, it was forgotten in a year.
Honorable Mentions: The Isaiah Bradley "Captain America" from the pretentiously titled "TRUTH" story. The Vision having the body of the original android Human Torch, then not, then so. The Hulk's merged persona (from Peter David's historic run on the comic) being called "the Professor" and being revealed to be yet another personality and not a cured Banner/Hulk. And finally, "James Howlet."
Secret empire, and especially the build up to it, was one of the best comic book stories I have read in a very long time. If you remove the fanboyish intransigence "characters can never change" BS you get an awesome story.
The Secret Empire storyline was really par for the course as far as comicbook arcs. Not really a retcon in the narrative sense because they were using an in-story device to explain. Plus, Spencer did some good work during that era.
I wonder why in all the years of these ads jimmy johns hasnt gotten Lesnar for a commercial spot
Man, if one more day wasnt here i was going to unsubscribe
That outro
But...that Captain America is from another universe lol
Cap saying hail hydra is like if a poor man said that chipbags are worth it. ITS HALVE EMPTY
3:26 Rumors are that he fused with both his hero and villain self. A perfectly balanced being...that decides to leave this world, becuase he's too powerful.
Lol. I saw OMD at number 2 and was wondering why it wasnt number 1. Then I saw Sins Past. Damn you for making me remember that. I'd successfully erased that from my memory till now. Did not need this reminder at all.
Osbourne has always had the nicest 360 wave pattern in red, I've ever seen
I am Surprised Trouble was not listed here.. The Miniseries, That had, Aunt May having an affair with Richard, And being Peter's Real Mother and giving her to Mary for her to raise as her own son. One More Day Is Just Revenge from Mephisto When Spidey Beat him in that 90s Christmas annual.... Least that makes a little more sense.... One More Day still Sucks...
My #1 is Marvel retconning that The Fantastic 4 no longer exist
Sire Kumasutra no they still existed after Secret Wars, it's just after cancelling the series they had Reed, Franklin and the others exploring the universe.