If I remember correctly, from one of my old Severn Valley Railway videos, the Royal Train was re-created in Great Western Style with 7819 Hinton Manor upfront. She had the code of all four headlamps at the top of her smoke box door and across her front bufferbeam. Of course, the letter/number codes you sometimes see on the main line certified engines are called reporting numbers. There's one other subject you haven't covered yet, I'm hoping you will cover it in one of your videos at some point, and that is headboards. Headboards were used in BR days and they are still in use today on preserved railways and on the main line. Headboards are placed on the lamp bracket on the smoke box door, specifying what special passenger train is being hauled on certain dates each year. This is for Great Western Tender Engines. I have one of them in Bachmann 00 gauge form: The Shakespeare Express hauled usually by 4965 Rood Ashton Hall. The real thing runs from Birmingham Snow Hill to Stratford-upon-Avon, on Sundays from July to September every year. Except this year, that is. Another special Main Line train that still operates every Summer through Barmouth, is The Cambrian Coast Express. Something to cover in another video, I hope. Please talk us through it, it's a fascinating subject.
Hi Kelly, I agree - Titled trains and headboards are a great subject and certain trains evoke some great memories. Keep an eye on our channel and we may cover it in the future - Dave
Dave, one type of train you omitted is the empty carriage stock (ECS) working. Originally I understand that, (post 1923), ECS workings ran under 'C' (class 3) headlamps, but later (possibly post 1965) ran as 'class' 5 workings.
Great video, a couple of head codes to be wary of too is class D and F on the Somerset and Dorset. (Bath to Bournemouth) Class F would have been BOTH express passenger and local passenger and class D was simply Goods. On the Bath to Bristol lines (ex Midland Lines) it was the standard classification system. Hope that helps people who are interested in the S&D. Cheers, Ross.
Please be careful when looking at old photographs of freight trains between Thornaby East box and Skinningrove by either the Guisborough route or the Saltburn route as the head codes DON'T gave the standard meanings as they designate the destination on Teesside (set out in the Sectional Appendix). This started in the NER days and lasted into the 1980s and included the passenger headcodes. When 4-character headcides were introduced the letter in the headcode would represent the same destination. The Limit of Shunt website has copies of Sectional Appendices predominantly for the north-east but also other regions. The NER used a combination of white and green headlamps on the front of mainly freight trains on Teesside and Tyneside. The use if green head lamps was abandoned between 1931 and 1947, but when I know not.
Hello again Neil. This is interesting information. How did you come by it? I've never noticed, ploughing through books on the Tees Valley area. (Never thought to look that closely). How do you think that originated? Then again also, in b/w images it's hardly noticeable, the tonal values between black/green, especially if the green's been aged by use and grime - even if the lamps had been wiped.
@@AlanLancasterAlanRLancaster many years ago ax a teen I picked up an abandoned copy of the Sectional Appendix from 1979 covering Teesside and saw the local headcodes. Then a few years ago I stumbled on the Limit of Shunt website. I was unaware of the use of green lamps until then as I saw very few photographs of trains on Teesside from the green lamp era. The local headcodes, but not the green lamps, are also stated in the Cleveland and Whitby Railway Memories book published by Bellcode Books.
@@neiloflongbeck5705 New to me as well. I've got that one, "Railway Memories No. 18", with L1 67754 on the front, a diesel with bogie tank wagons on the coast near Huntcliff and a brace of filthy Class A8's at Thornaby on the back. I'll have to do more than scan it now then. I only bought the book for pictorial reference. There's a sizeable section on the railways around Cleveland under "The iron roads... " Thanks for that.
Thanks Neil and Alan for some interesting information. A lot of 'local differences' existed as you state and we may cover these differences in future streams, but I don't think I've got the stamina to cover every variation in a 24-hour (or more!) livestream :-)
Dear Dave, thank you very much for this great lecture about head codes - as a communication trainer I have to say great job, too. As a native German I would like you to speak a little bit slowlier due to my bad English. So again very helpfull and recommended information. Questions: Are the lamps always enlighted or only after and before sunset? Will due to your footage Hatton offer steam locos in O-scale with electric pins so the lamps from Royal to K could be brought onto the layouts? Stay on track, Christian
Hi Dave, a very helpful video indeed! I was wondering, would it be realistic for a light railway that wasn't grouped in 1923 to use it's own system of headcodes? Thanks in advace!
If I remember correctly, from one of my old Severn Valley Railway videos, the Royal Train was re-created in Great Western Style with 7819 Hinton Manor upfront. She had the code of all four headlamps at the top of her smoke box door and across her front bufferbeam. Of course, the letter/number codes you sometimes see on the main line certified engines are called reporting numbers. There's one other subject you haven't covered yet, I'm hoping you will cover it in one of your videos at some point, and that is headboards. Headboards were used in BR days and they are still in use today on preserved railways and on the main line. Headboards are placed on the lamp bracket on the smoke box door, specifying what special passenger train is being hauled on certain dates each year. This is for Great Western Tender Engines. I have one of them in Bachmann 00 gauge form: The Shakespeare Express hauled usually by 4965 Rood Ashton Hall. The real thing runs from Birmingham Snow Hill to Stratford-upon-Avon, on Sundays from July to September every year. Except this year, that is. Another special Main Line train that still operates every Summer through Barmouth, is The Cambrian Coast Express. Something to cover in another video, I hope. Please talk us through it, it's a fascinating subject.
Hi Kelly, I agree - Titled trains and headboards are a great subject and certain trains evoke some great memories. Keep an eye on our channel and we may cover it in the future - Dave
Am really enjoying these educational videos. A true enhancement to my understanding of the reality I try to model. Thank you.
Thanks Peter, glad you're enjoying the videos.
Hi Dave Excellent description, extremely usefull and very informative. Well Done!
Well done Dave, these videos are very much useful and interesting, keep them coming 👍👍👍👍.
Thanks for these videos - they're really helpful!
Dave, one type of train you omitted is the empty carriage stock (ECS) working. Originally I understand that, (post 1923), ECS workings ran under 'C' (class 3) headlamps, but later (possibly post 1965) ran as 'class' 5 workings.
You've got it spot on Philip, empty stock workings were 'C' or '3' until 1969 when they were switched to Class 5.
Great video, a couple of head codes to be wary of too is class D and F on the Somerset and Dorset. (Bath to Bournemouth)
Class F would have been BOTH express passenger and local passenger and class D was simply Goods.
On the Bath to Bristol lines (ex Midland Lines) it was the standard classification system.
Hope that helps people who are interested in the S&D.
Cheers,
Ross.
Thanks Ross, some great background knowledge there.
Great video Dave very interesting did not relies there were so many codes.Will need to print them out to study later.
The classifications changed in the 1950's Richard. Check online if you're modelling the 'shift era' between steam and dieselisation.
@@AlanLancasterAlanRLancaster thank you for that Alan.👍
Please be careful when looking at old photographs of freight trains between Thornaby East box and Skinningrove by either the Guisborough route or the Saltburn route as the head codes DON'T gave the standard meanings as they designate the destination on Teesside (set out in the Sectional Appendix). This started in the NER days and lasted into the 1980s and included the passenger headcodes. When 4-character headcides were introduced the letter in the headcode would represent the same destination. The Limit of Shunt website has copies of Sectional Appendices predominantly for the north-east but also other regions.
The NER used a combination of white and green headlamps on the front of mainly freight trains on Teesside and Tyneside. The use if green head lamps was abandoned between 1931 and 1947, but when I know not.
Hello again Neil. This is interesting information. How did you come by it? I've never noticed, ploughing through books on the Tees Valley area. (Never thought to look that closely). How do you think that originated? Then again also, in b/w images it's hardly noticeable, the tonal values between black/green, especially if the green's been aged by use and grime - even if the lamps had been wiped.
@@AlanLancasterAlanRLancaster many years ago ax a teen I picked up an abandoned copy of the Sectional Appendix from 1979 covering Teesside and saw the local headcodes. Then a few years ago I stumbled on the Limit of Shunt website. I was unaware of the use of green lamps until then as I saw very few photographs of trains on Teesside from the green lamp era.
The local headcodes, but not the green lamps, are also stated in the Cleveland and Whitby Railway Memories book published by Bellcode Books.
@@neiloflongbeck5705 New to me as well. I've got that one, "Railway Memories No. 18", with L1 67754 on the front, a diesel with bogie tank wagons on the coast near Huntcliff and a brace of filthy Class A8's at Thornaby on the back. I'll have to do more than scan it now then. I only bought the book for pictorial reference. There's a sizeable section on the railways around Cleveland under "The iron roads... " Thanks for that.
@@AlanLancasterAlanRLancaster look at page 50 for the local head codes.
Thanks Neil and Alan for some interesting information. A lot of 'local differences' existed as you state and we may cover these differences in future streams, but I don't think I've got the stamina to cover every variation in a 24-hour (or more!) livestream :-)
Gr8 info Dave - What Classification would Gunpowder come under pls ?..Many Thanks 🙏🏻
Hi Dave, wonderful stream!
Does this all apply to heritage railways as well?
Thanks
Hi Gablees, yes, this system is used by the majority of the UK's preserved railways too
Dear Dave, thank you very much for this great lecture about head codes - as a communication trainer I have to say great job, too. As a native German I would like you to speak a little bit slowlier due to my bad English.
So again very helpfull and recommended information.
Questions:
Are the lamps always enlighted or only after and before sunset?
Will due to your footage Hatton offer steam locos in O-scale with electric pins so the lamps from Royal to K could be brought onto the layouts?
Stay on track,
Christian
Express Models also supply working oil lamps in OO gauge.
... As does Wizard Models of Barton-upon-Humber
I’m perplexed with what system the Great Eastern used with their white discs?
Hi Dave, a very helpful video indeed! I was wondering, would it be realistic for a light railway that wasn't grouped in 1923 to use it's own system of headcodes? Thanks in advace!
Could class g be classified with shunting?