John!! So awesome to come across your channel while researching. You are always an abundance of information, would love to see more recent videos when you aren’t working your tail off or at the gym!!
This is spot on, sadly! Until we get control of the "puppy mill" programs that have no admission standards and whose curriculum is not even challenging. For the past three years, I heard nurses at work who were in these types of programs brag about the fact that they didn't even need to study or barely passing but allowed to move onto the next course. This has completely watered down the entire profession and because of this physicians are throwing us all into the same pool when they judge our level of knowledge. I committed the time, money, blood, sweat, and tears to get into and finish a reputable program that constantly challenged me to be better so it is difficult to swallow. As a profession, we have got to come together and stop the chaos before we have nothing to bring to the table. Do you have any thoughts or ideas on how we can be proactive now to try to save our profession? Thank you for sharing!
I think a large contibuting factor to oversaturation is allowing RN's with only 1 year of experience to enter NP school. If we stuck with having to have minimal experience of 5-10 years as a RN then we could help address the RN shortage but also slow down the regurgitation of minimally experienced RN/NP's. Majority of RN's that go directly into NP from RN had no intention of working as a RN. Lets reign in the universities and demand more experience in the RN role. Will elevate the RN and the NP profession where it should be.
I have co worker of mine who just graduated who just got her RN license. Guess what? She went straight into a nurse practitioner program. It's crazy down here Miami.
This is disheartening because I am going into my second year at a reputable local school (which I chose for a reason), and I was hoping this would put me at an advantage when job seeking after graduation. I wish the criteria for NP entry was more stringent like someone before posted (5-10 years RN experience before admission), but it doesn't look like that will happen. Higher education is a business after all. And while I don't want to work as an RN after I graduate, if I find myself jobless I have a back up. This sucks.
Great informative video👍. I was thinking about being a pa but there's an estimated 38,000 new jobs being available over the next 10 years(BLS) but there's about 8,000-10,000 PAs graduating every year. This is a huge problem. Schools are just opening up programs because of how profitable it is.
I recently graduated from an ABSN program. Out of 48 student who graduated with me 40 want to be NPs and 6 want to be CRNAs. Everybody wants to wear a white uniform and act like a medical doctor. That's why being a mid-level is so appealing to people. I have decided to stay a bedside nurse and start travel nursing later on. With the money travel nurses make someone should be an idiot to pursue NP at this point. Does it even make sense to get a higher degree and go to debt to make less money than a bedside nurse?
Rayan that is a very good question. Unfortunately many are being convinced by their academic instructors that this is the way to go when in fact the market has unfortunately already crashed
What are your thoughts about an RN should be required to have several years (ie 3-5 years)of bedside nursing experience prior to being able to apply to NP school? Do you think that would decrease the saturation of NP? The hospital that I work at does not hire NP unless they have at least 5 years of bedside nursing either in ER or Critical Care (ICU,NICU,etc).
This is true I currently work with 3 NPs who graduated a year ago and are still bedside bc they can’t finds. Idk why schools are allowed to keep producing so many NP.
The links in the description no longer work. But I think this is the data he was referring to: bhw.hrsa.gov/data-research/projecting-health-workforce-supply-demand Under the primary care tab it predicts "The primary care NP supply is projected to outpace demand at the national level if NPs are utilized in the same way in the future."
I just sent this video to my ex-husband so that he can see our daughter who is wanting to go to nursing school may need to go a different route before we end up paying for school loans and her without a job. This is depressing.
I honestly think it has everything to do with bedside nursing being really hard. I think the med-surg nurse with 20-30 years of experience will be like unicorns. They kind of already are.
chronicles, yes, the projection is psych will be saturated in 2-3 years as FNPs who can not find jobs or are not happy with their compensation port over to psych there is one PHMNP school that has 800 enrolled at this time
@@jcthenp6628 Therapy is the same honey...the puppy mill programs is a joke..and they made this shit a doctorate so laughable..school is the real mvp🏆they are winning because they are a business 👏🏽🙌🏽 I need a dam business, maybe a bunny ranch aka whore house...🤷🏽♀️🙆🏽♀️💁🏽♀️😁
@@jcthenp6628 If anyone reads this even a year later, I was able to use Internet Archive, posted the link in it, then selected 2020 and was able to download the PDF just fine.
Unfortunately the NP market is already oversaturated even worse than pharmacy. If you do not have a job lined up I would not recommend going to NP school at this time.
@@jcthenp6628 thank you so much for your reply! I was curious about this but i dont know any nurses or nurse practitioners. I thought NP had a great job market when I looked at the bureau of labor statistics. It had a 45% projected job growth in 10 years compared to pharmacy being -3%. I am in pharmacy school right now and thought about pursuing nurse practitioner career but now i am kind of confused.
@@Moon-hg9vg , yes the same data shows an oversaturation of NPs by 2026 of 50,000 with all markets saturated. Schools are just overproducing NPs at an unsustainable rate.
@@alexasanchez9601 MDs are not oversaturated, although there is some literature showing a potential problem with EM as the number of residencies has exploded
No, they are two different professions under the same umbrella. The RN field has been lucrative for a while due to the field not producing enough RNs which is why many hospital systems are importing RNs. However, the NP academia is saturating the NP field and pulling more RNs out of the market
@@zicon-z6c because they feel they will make more money? Because they are being recruited by academia early in their academic process? Because they end up not liking the job? The reasons are boundless, but not really what I focus on here as I try and keep to the NP side of things :)
The only thing I find more disturbing than the sentiments provided in this video is the amount of people mindlessly agreeing. Is the issue saturation? Or is the issue a lack of self advocacy? We are told our entire nursing career that we should advance our education and promote our profession- yet I literally just watched an NP advocate for us not to. Perhaps the issue is in a time with a massive shortage of PCPs, we have a significant underutilization of PAs and NPs to bridge the gap and improve access to care. Where have you been in advocating for full practice authority or promoting the advancement of this profession?? We provide safe care- this is evidenced based. Maybe spend some time advocating for NPs rather than shaming BSNs for advancing their education.
No, saturation is the issue. This has nothing to do with independent practice or not. Areas are so saturated that NPs are being refused on insurance panels because there are just too many providers and not enough patients. The links to the data were provided.
Maybe you were watching a different video, but he wasn’t “shaming” RNs into becoming NPs. He was telling it like it is giving current conditions. I see it with my own eyes and I am not even a NP; I was warned years ago (2010s) that this was starting by NPs. You can have full practice all day but the jobs are just not as plentiful. Especially with COVID losses.
@@erinkreider3369 there is no longer a national shortage, NPs and PAs are out of work by the thousands, the data is linked under the video. You are just wrong on this and the data supports the fact that you are wrong.
You are absolutely on point with this, and unfortunately, it will just get worse with time.
Unfortunately, it has.
John!! So awesome to come across your channel while researching. You are always an abundance of information, would love to see more recent videos when you aren’t working your tail off or at the gym!!
This is spot on, sadly! Until we get control of the "puppy mill" programs that have no admission standards and whose curriculum is not even challenging. For the past three years, I heard nurses at work who were in these types of programs brag about the fact that they didn't even need to study or barely passing but allowed to move onto the next course. This has completely watered down the entire profession and because of this physicians are throwing us all into the same pool when they judge our level of knowledge. I committed the time, money, blood, sweat, and tears to get into and finish a reputable program that constantly challenged me to be better so it is difficult to swallow. As a profession, we have got to come together and stop the chaos before we have nothing to bring to the table. Do you have any thoughts or ideas on how we can be proactive now to try to save our profession? Thank you for sharing!
I think a large contibuting factor to oversaturation is allowing RN's with only 1 year of experience to enter NP school. If we stuck with having to have minimal experience of 5-10 years as a RN then we could help address the RN shortage but also slow down the regurgitation of minimally experienced RN/NP's. Majority of RN's that go directly into NP from RN had no intention of working as a RN. Lets reign in the universities and demand more experience in the RN role. Will elevate the RN and the NP profession where it should be.
Diana, direct entry is definitely an issue. There needs to be standardization of school and entry requirements
S IP, unfortunately if we do not control our market, there will be no market we are already saturated ahead of schedule.
The burnout and overall bad work conditions that bedside RN's have to deal with.. will just lead alot of RN's leave nursing for NP or CRNA.
I have co worker of mine who just graduated who just got her RN license. Guess what? She went straight into a nurse practitioner program. It's crazy down here Miami.
This is disheartening because I am going into my second year at a reputable local school (which I chose for a reason), and I was hoping this would put me at an advantage when job seeking after graduation. I wish the criteria for NP entry was more stringent like someone before posted (5-10 years RN experience before admission), but it doesn't look like that will happen. Higher education is a business after all. And while I don't want to work as an RN after I graduate, if I find myself jobless I have a back up. This sucks.
shonita it is definitely a frustrating situation to be in we need better controls on our production
You are so right on in your assessment.
Great informative video👍. I was thinking about being a pa but there's an estimated 38,000 new jobs being available over the next 10 years(BLS) but there's about 8,000-10,000 PAs graduating every year. This is a huge problem. Schools are just opening up programs because of how profitable it is.
Also, NPs and PAs are essentially eating at the same table market wise which means we are saturating their market as well
@@jcthenp6628 what do you think about CRNAs and MDs?
@@Unknown-xh5vo CRNAs and MDs control their numbers better than NPs do.
@@jcthenp6628 college is just a money making scam now a days. TH-cam Peter Schiff college
Totally agree with this!!
Also have to think about all the PAs that are also being produced!
Carmen Absolutely, which puts us around 40,000 graduates next year total
@@jcthenp6628 Can you do a video on BLS predictions for the next 10 years for NPs and PAs?
@@jcthenp6628 just looked at BLS for CRNAs +midwives +NPs will see a 45% job growth
@@user-lu6yg3vk9z yes, did you see the numbers produced? For NPs far outweighs the job growth and has been. The saturation is upon us
@@jcthenp6628 don’t see one specifically for N.Ps just combination for all three
Totally agree ,this is scary!
I recently graduated from an ABSN program. Out of 48 student who graduated with me 40 want to be NPs and 6 want to be CRNAs. Everybody wants to wear a white uniform and act like a medical doctor. That's why being a mid-level is so appealing to people. I have decided to stay a bedside nurse and start travel nursing later on. With the money travel nurses make someone should be an idiot to pursue NP at this point. Does it even make sense to get a higher degree and go to debt to make less money than a bedside nurse?
Rayan that is a very good question.
Unfortunately many are being convinced by their academic instructors that this is the way to go when in fact the market has unfortunately already crashed
Also do u see RNs jobs being saturated as well ? Since every school keeps pumping them out
@@zicon-z6c no, the volume of availability is much higher in the RN field
Not everyone wants to do bedside their whole career some of us would like to be able to teach.
@@maxinvasionleet aim for a PhD if teaching is your goal as there are many institutions that do not tenure the DNP still.
What are your thoughts about an RN should be required to have several years (ie 3-5 years)of bedside nursing experience prior to being able to apply to NP school? Do you think that would decrease the saturation of NP? The hospital that I work at does not hire NP unless they have at least 5 years of bedside nursing either in ER or Critical Care (ICU,NICU,etc).
It would help, there is a paper that explains
open.substack.com/pub/jcthenp/p/2023-report-on-np-education-and-the?r=3afsqb&
This is true I currently work with 3 NPs who graduated a year ago and are still bedside bc they can’t finds. Idk why schools are allowed to keep producing so many NP.
Because the school are producing revenue for the states.
The burnout and overall bad work conditions that bedside RN's have to deal with.. will just lead alot of RN's leave nursing for NP or CRNA.
It already has, but we used to have prerequisites and limited numbers which prevented the massive oversaturation.
@@jcthenp6628 Hopefully in the future RN's will see the oversaturated NP field and stay RN's we need them.
@@cm9736 I hope so, but unfortunately now academia is still lying to them and telling them the jobs are plentiful.
The links in the description no longer work. But I think this is the data he was referring to: bhw.hrsa.gov/data-research/projecting-health-workforce-supply-demand
Under the primary care tab it predicts "The primary care NP supply is projected to outpace demand at the national level if NPs are utilized in the same way in the future."
Very true!
True
This is depressing, considering switching back to computer science..
I just sent this video to my ex-husband so that he can see our daughter who is wanting to go to nursing school may need to go a different route before we end up paying for school loans and her without a job. This is depressing.
Ms Tammy2U remember this is just for NPs, RN field is not saturated at this point .
@@jcthenp6628 Well she wanted to be an ARNP like her mom (me) but I am going to really have a talk with her and let her watch the video.
For sure, and as always yell at me if you need to :)
Maybe she shd go to medical sch after nursing
And will never be
Do you think the sand for CRNA?
No CRNAs are controlling their production and quality
I honestly think it has everything to do with bedside nursing being really hard. I think the med-surg nurse with 20-30 years of experience will be like unicorns. They kind of already are.
It definitely makes a difference, especially with the push from academia for an increase in NP slots.
Nursing has always been about bedside ever since the job has been created. Now they want to be like doctors!
@@jcthenp6628 as bad as it is still not bad a pharmacy with a -3% job growth. Soon A.I. will make Pharmacists an obsolete profession.
@@user-lu6yg3vk9z it could, but I doubt that will happen, AI has a tendency to augment rather than replace.
But, that remains to be seen.
Do you think this is also true for specialized NPs? Psych or Geriatrics?
chronicles, yes, the projection is psych will be saturated in 2-3 years as FNPs who can not find jobs or are not happy with their compensation port over to psych there is one PHMNP school that has 800 enrolled at this time
@@jcthenp6628 Therapy is the same honey...the puppy mill programs is a joke..and they made this shit a doctorate so laughable..school is the real mvp🏆they are winning because they are a business 👏🏽🙌🏽
I need a dam business, maybe a bunny ranch aka whore house...🤷🏽♀️🙆🏽♀️💁🏽♀️😁
@@levimiller2024 no, they are already starting to drop as saturation starts to sit in.
How hard was fnp school compared to nursing school?
It is a different animal today than it was when I went through
Both links to the source opened to error pages
Well it seems the BLS has changed their website
@@jcthenp6628 If anyone reads this even a year later, I was able to use Internet Archive, posted the link in it, then selected 2020 and was able to download the PDF just fine.
So is going to a np school not a good idea because it will get oversaturated? Aren’t other careers also saturated like computer science or pharmacy
Unfortunately the NP market is already oversaturated even worse than pharmacy.
If you do not have a job lined up I would not recommend going to NP school at this time.
@@jcthenp6628 thank you so much for your reply! I was curious about this but i dont know any nurses or nurse practitioners. I thought NP had a great job market when I looked at the bureau of labor statistics. It had a 45% projected job growth in 10 years compared to pharmacy being -3%. I am in pharmacy school right now and thought about pursuing nurse practitioner career but now i am kind of confused.
@@Moon-hg9vg , yes the same data shows an oversaturation of NPs by 2026 of 50,000 with all markets saturated.
Schools are just overproducing NPs at an unsustainable rate.
@@jcthenp6628 even For psych nurse practitioner or nicu np?
@@ricardorodriguesrr18 psych is projected to be oversaturated in 2-3 years. I do not have the data on Neonatal NPs.
is this also true for the PA profession?
We fill the same market and NPs are being flooded out at a time of >30,000 per year when they should be graduating around 9,000 per year
yikes, how does the situation look for MDs?
@@alexasanchez9601 MDs are not oversaturated, although there is some literature showing a potential problem with EM as the number of residencies has exploded
@@jcthenp6628 yikes - do you think the situation is dire enough for people who are going the PA route to consider going the med route instead?
@@alexasanchez9601 Medicine keeps strict number control through limiting residencies. They are way more secure
Does this mean RN jobs in general will be over saturated as well ? And what avenue would a RN go to then
No, they are two different professions under the same umbrella.
The RN field has been lucrative for a while due to the field not producing enough RNs which is why many hospital systems are importing RNs.
However, the NP academia is saturating the NP field and pulling more RNs out of the market
@@jcthenp6628 why are RNs fleeting from bed side and higher deficits than higher administrative or diagnostic roles such as NP ?
@@zicon-z6c because they feel they will make more money?
Because they are being recruited by academia early in their academic process?
Because they end up not liking the job?
The reasons are boundless, but not really what I focus on here as I try and keep to the NP side of things :)
@@jcthenp6628 thanks for the insight
The only thing I find more disturbing than the sentiments provided in this video is the amount of people mindlessly agreeing.
Is the issue saturation? Or is the issue a lack of self advocacy?
We are told our entire nursing career that we should advance our education and promote our profession- yet I literally just watched an NP advocate for us not to.
Perhaps the issue is in a time with a massive shortage of PCPs, we have a significant underutilization of PAs and NPs to bridge the gap and improve access to care.
Where have you been in advocating for full practice authority or promoting the advancement of this profession?? We provide safe care- this is evidenced based. Maybe spend some time advocating for NPs rather than shaming BSNs for advancing their education.
No, saturation is the issue.
This has nothing to do with independent practice or not.
Areas are so saturated that NPs are being refused on insurance panels because there are just too many providers and not enough patients.
The links to the data were provided.
Maybe you were watching a different video, but he wasn’t “shaming” RNs into becoming NPs. He was telling it like it is giving current conditions. I see it with my own eyes and I am not even a NP; I was warned years ago (2010s) that this was starting by NPs. You can have full practice all day but the jobs are just not as plentiful. Especially with COVID losses.
@J. J. There is a national shortage in primary care and a surge in PAs and NPs. It’s not that complicated.
@@erinkreider3369 there is no longer a national shortage, NPs and PAs are out of work by the thousands, the data is linked under the video.
You are just wrong on this and the data supports the fact that you are wrong.