Hello Blue, creator of the video here. Thank you so much for your reaction. It was one of my dreams when I started youtube to see you react to some of my content, so to see it happen so soon after I started is crazy to me. Even if we disagree on some of what I said, it is really cool of you to give a tiny creator like me a shot. At the very least, I know what to improve on in my future content. So thank you once again, handsome!
if only PA made system that make end game lifeskill more dangerous, more investment on gear, plus more rare item to sell to the npc. Then lifeskill would be comparable to pve lol
@@jeffd9658 I suppose the actual number depends on what you consider to be endgame gear, but I agree. The higher in GS you go, the further the divide between the cost of it and LS gear will be.
Endgame life skiller here. The money from life skilling doesn't need to be in same line with grinding. It should be enough to make us stay a float to make meaninful progression. Majority of life skillers are also grinders because it is more efficient time wise than pure life skills. Only very small dedicated hard core people 100% life skill and make good profit out of it and even they haven't been having good time lately. Gathering, fishing, cooking, alchemy, processing, trading and bartering are not what they used to be. They need some help to get back on track.
I agree. I dont think theres many people that thinks any lifeskills should be on par with the highest end of grinding, but I think most people can agree that the sheer gap between grinding and Life Skills is a little bit much when you take into account whats involved to get started with each. You need to grind out a bunch energy to do any sort of gathering, you need to then grind your skills up to make it even worth it with the extra drops, etc. You need to get a bunch of mastery, which if youre newer good luck with that. But with grinding? A new player can make their first season character, get their PEN Tuvala and make a lot more silver an hour out of the gate with what is essentially a couple days work. Maybe a week tops. But there no equivilent to Life Skills, because those new players dont get handed a set of gear for any of the life skills, dont have the energy and mastery to maximize the benefit of the resources theyve gathered/bought, they dont have the skill levels to either. I think it just needs to be brought up a little bit so life skills arent left behind so badly and new players can actually look at getting into them without griefing themselves.
@@littleprince8164 Yes right now it's mainly to keep notes of what I am doing and what old prices were. Most of my spreadsheets have been replaced by bdolytics.
@littleprince8164 I track how much I get doing various activities. The online guides are a general rule but my sheets track exactly what I can do with my character and where.
just ignore the fact that you have to have 350-400cp to build the worker empire, you have to be running the game non-stop, hire workers, skill workers, the whole setup effort for empire is huge and then you have to sit there and wait for the mats/resources to come in before you can even do anything with it
The biggest issue with lifeskills is demand. Where as grinders can always make the bulk of their money via trash loot (and thus 0 tax) lifeskillers are almost always faced with the tax. Imperial delivery is not enough and needs a major overhaul. Another issue is yeah we have family lifeskills now, but where is the incentive to push past g50 in anything when there is literally nothing to show for the effort? Oh an icon? 😒 Imagine if for grinders you can push for gear, but nothing past 700 gs actually brings any benefit? Manos has been out for like 4+ years. How have lifeskillers not gotten new tiers of gear in all this time? How about new recipes? Why are we still using Valencia and Balenos meals as the major profit center for cooking? Alchemy is the same old elixirs. Lastly let’s circle around back to silver. I would be fine, as a 2k mastery lifeskilller, making 80% of grinder money. The issue is, 90% of the time, I would just be financially better off just grinding a mid tier spot Fishing needs a total rework. Not only is the silver poor, but the mechanics are weak, and there is nothing fun to do with it. Gathering needs alot more. Meat gathering compared to Hunting is laughable, or the resources are limited or rng like Truffles or Delotia essence. Saps and blood gathering per hour is laughable. Bartering is a joke. Farming is as well. (This is suppose to be a sand box mmo and both activities are heavily gated…in 2024?). I like lifeskills, but as they currently are, they are not very rewarding in silver or just enjoyment. They feel like a part of the game, PA forgets even exists.
add trash drops to life skills. that would help alot. Like I farm Shadow lions, have them drop dark fur worth 20,000 per drop or something. Add another drop to gathering like Basic herb, have it cost 15,000
totally agree. another thing to keep in mind is the bottleneck materials in cooking and alchemy specifically. the reason why people are still making balenos and valencia meals is that the loml meals for examples are gated by node materials. alchemy as well is very limited on materials, and while the combining of traces and fruits did help in the short term, in the long term the demand of the elixirs far outweighs anyones ability to gather those fruits and especially traces.
The thing is, that i can go Gyfin Underground and do a super chill grind while watching anime reading subtitles. And still make 1B/h, where around 800k is raw trash money. No prep just tent and food. Even the sweatiest hunt with full preperation doesn't make me that much money. Maybe shadow lions with insane head drop luck, idk.
What is the cost of your combat gear vs the cost of your hunting gear/life skill? I bet the combat gear is like 15x more in price. Ofc there is no equality to the outcome in such scenario
18:50 I have 20+ lightstone sets for lifeskills and 5 sets for grinding. Yeah sure in gathering you only use 1 set of light stones due to how good the stats are but basically every other life skill us use multiple different sets. As for Hunting you actually want to swap gear and crystals depending on if your killing the mob or gathering the mob. You do this in a few gathering locations to. Cooking I got 4 different sets I use. Alchemy 3., Prosesing 2. Fishing 3. Traning 3. Trading and farming only uses each 1 because they are not lifekills according to PA so they dont use the mastery system. Same for sailing and bartering you just decide if you want to move faster or get more exp. As for grinding I use ALL-OUT-ATTACK, Shadows and The Wild: Kama, demi and human.
Life skilling needs a massive buff. I have an interest in PvE and life skilling, but atm the life skilling stuff is worth so little it doesn't even seem like you should do it unless you REALLY REALLY want to. There's no incentive at all because refining all the materials into the stuff you would actually want to use is more time consuming and annoying then just grinding some mobs and buying your consumables off the market. I don't want to see them just increase all the prices on stuff where it would affect the current grinders increasing their cost of consumables. I would just like to see them add some raw silver value to the life skills akin to trash loot from grinding so you've got some stable income and some market income.
1:07:50 If you want exp you do ocean gathering or seed gathering not Behr assuming you have the gathering minigame active. Gathering exp: 1: The base gathering EXP can be different but fixed for every item you get, for example Monk’s Branch gives you more EXP than Weeds. 2: EXP is given based on the number of slots in the gathering loot window, not the number of items you gathered. For example getting 20 Weeds in 1 loot window slot will give you half the exp you get for getting 2 individual Weeds in 2 different loot window slots each. 3: The gathering minigame will give you 10X the regular EXP amount. 4: The gathering minigame will give you 10X the regular amount of items. 5: Gathering exp is generated when the gathering window opens, not when items are picked up. 6: Items like seeds and trade items from ocean gathering do not stack. Point 1 thru 5 applies in Behr the final point is what makes seed and ocean gathering good. So here is the idea: 7: The base exp (point 1) for each inventory slot of seeds, lobsters and pearls are high. 8: combine points 2,4 and 6 this will give you 10 times the amount of slots that gives you the EXP mentioned in point 7. 9: Now we combine point 8 with point 3 and we have 10 more items than normal that each give 10 times more exp and the base value of that exp is high. So we end up with “alot_of_EXP * 10 * 10” or “alot_of_EXP * 100”. TLDR the gathering minigame broke seed and ocean gathering exp and one of the reasons why Bairog got some of his Pistanity clips the past month or so.
I actually think he did a good job with the graph at 10:35 Gathering/hunting/grinding DEMAND you are tabbed into the game to preform the task, while the other lifeskilling requires you to tab in every once in a while or never.
Agree.. but think he should have broken up grinding into endgame and mid game grinding. There are grinds where u gotta be paying attention and then there are grinds where you can be holding 4 buttons on a guardian for 59 second intervals. There's also chill gathering and sweaty meta Musa gathering... active cooking alchemy and processing could be a category and higher up on activity cuz you get 15-20min breaks imbetween setups.
17:30 No energy for gathering is not infinite with the account wide lifeskills, it takes a character 28 days to get to my energy cap while being offline, that gives me 1 about more hour of gathering every month for every character that I am willing to move away from were I have it parked and if I resist using its energy to lvl up a node. This is of course ignoring the LT/maids you need to actually gather on said alt. A character that's offline generates 720 energy in 30 days. A character that online generates 14400 in 30 days (43200 energy/30days with the kama buff). So if you have 20(60) alts you double your energy you get every day. Now what we can see that energy is not an infinite resource for gathering after the account wide life skill update let's dive in to why energy is a limiting factor for gathering. A character generates 20 energy every hour they are online (60 with kama buff). For infinite energy to be a ting you need to find a spot were you can gather for less than 20(60) energy/h. I personally burn 400-700+ energy /h depending on the spot, so your energy eventually runs out and you cant gather any more aka limiting you and forcing you to take a 10-30h break between every gathering session. JUST USE ENERGY POTION! ... what energy potions? the old 50 energy ones with 15k pre orders on the MP or the new LoML ones with 2k pre orders? Ooh you think I should buy energy potions with pearls... yeah no. Hey now that I have gone thru the numbers, I have 20 alts I can set aside for gathering giving me about 1 extra hour of gathering every day (even if that hour is going to be torture due to having to deal with having 1/5th or less LT than my main lifeskiller its still double the amount of hours I can reliably do in one day)
Exactly. 1 Energy regen per 30 minutes on alts is bullshit and so limiting. I really enjoy gathering, it's sad as a relatively new player that i can only do it for 30 minutes every few hours. I even got the yawning hedgehog lightstone set just for that extra 1 energy generation :(.
@@boogusnutsack5926 I'm under the assumption that you get 1 energy every hour like they state in game. and that alts do not benefit from things like lightstone effects while offline at all.
Defining effort with apm takes research and planning out of the equation, not to mention skill. PvP and life skills both need to be at least 75 percent of an average grind spot.
most of the time blue is saying nothing from what the video is talking about, for example, every graph was not about effort, it is metrics for the effort the Luneye is setting tho, and no part of the video he says that lifeskilling is the same effort as grind, blue take the arguments out of nothing that he is defending lifeskilling is more effort or close, he just bring up the points about effort, sometimes looks just like blue is ignoring what the guy says in the video, of course its content and he is just saying something to do the content, but in some parts he loses the porpoise of the video.
49:20 Yes that's exactly the point and why life skills are limited by energy. If I want to do 2 hours of gathering back to back I cant because I need to wait a day for my energy to recover. A: add on your pre orders on top of the 15k or 2k pre existing pre orders and pray they fill before you go gathering. B: spend 200 energy from a alt to get 1 50 energy potion, this kills your account wide life skill argument. C: use your alt with less than 1/5th of the LT of your main. and lifeskills give you more than 1 heavy stack of item so horse stacking is not a thing. better swipe for the maids :D D: figure out the next time its night in game then spend a hour getting the materials for the LoML Herbal Medicine during that night (if you dont find enough by the end of the night then LUL get good) every time you feel like doing back to back gathering sessions.
I think lifeskilling is just a preference, at the end of the day whatever you do more of (ie lifeskilling or pve grinding) is best, if you see yourself gathering 20 hrs a week without getting bored then thats profitable for you! At the end of the day you're in it for the long haul, would love to see some changes in lifeskilling though.
Agree with your points about risk and return. Active game play should be rewarded well. AFK Lifeskilling should never make as much money as active grinder unless if PA wants to encourage people not to play the game anymore and have servers remain silent and dead with nobody moving around anymore.
If you really want to know why life skills need a rework, look at my comments on this video, I am "actively" lifeskilling right now. only 104,331 Witch's Delicacy left until I am 500 CP :P
As a hardcap lifeskiller, lifeskill is in a decent spot, the only buff i'd like to see is imperial to contribution points be 1:1 instead of 1:2 to increase demand. It would hurt supply a ton for worker matts but that also means workers = more money. win win. I can currently make 1-3b per hour (average 1.5b on right meals, 2b+ during event if i have money saved)
I enjoy lifeskilling because its chill and therapeutic for me as an individual. Either way it goes, I put in hours into the game just like a grinder does.. I also enjoy pvp as well.. but grinding is just not my forte. I don't like the idea that I need to tag a pve class just to make comparable money to a sweaty grinder and lifeskilling has been a great alternative for me to be able to compete. Lifeskilling has great mechanics and activities I like to do, but it's just a waste of time imo
I honestly dont see why one or the other cares... If all you do is grind why would you care if someone lifeskilling makes as much as you, wtf cares, i think my hour of gameplay should be as valuable as your hour of gameplay. Thats why i get bothered when you have grinders saying lifeskillers make to much or life skillers saying grinders make to much, WTF cares. Choice has 100 trillion silver and doesnt effect how i play or enjoy my game, so whether grinding or lifeskilling makes more, i dont fkn care cuz i play the game to enjoy and someone making more silver per hour based on activty doesnt matter, you could tell me i could make 5 bil cooking but i aint gunna do it, cuz cooking is boring as shit, rather be out killing some mobs and doing shit
I active lifeskill maybe 90% of the my time, we shouldn't make as much as grinders, but definitely more than we do now. The unification of some materials made a few (more) things not worth doing. His graph should be engagement required, not activity.
I have lost more crystals in sniper rifle hunting than grind but im still loving it now because im making consistent and with crystal drop rng way more than grinding at elvia. Im not even 2k mastery and +9 sniper rifle only but i still make more than on grinding. Plus, sniper hunting does not make me sleepy 30 mins in grinding. haha!
PA should increase the prices of all gatherable item that require manual gathering and the item that hard to gather and the process material food that take time to make not that its more than grinding but atleast make it balance so ppl want to do and sell those item and gatherable
One of the problems with making these comparisons is understanding overhead costs and Return on Investment (ROI). Current metrics that most players use don't take into account the cost of the equipment and time value of that investment when looking at the overall profitability of the activities. We look at the flat operating revenue instead of how efficiently those funds are being reinvested and how quickly those funds can be cycled and then reinvested. A little more color would be to compare a guy with a food truck compared to a McDonalds. Say the food truck sunk cost are $50K and the McDonalds is $500K. The food truck makes $500 a day operating profit and the McD's makes $2000. Just looking on the raw numbers, the McD looks way more profitable. When looking at the ROI, the food truck is over double what the restaurant is on a daily basis.
No, because Lifeskill was always money/day, instead of money/hour. Lifeskills should make more stable money than they do right now, but not more than grinding. Pretty easy question, why is this over one hour long?
I active lifeskill maybe 90% of the my time, I agree, we shouldn't make as much as grinders, but definitely more than we do now. Even if we did in regards to trash loot value, market tax eats a lot of our potential profit.
3rd comment 19:40 yes people use Secret Book of Florin. 20:15 no most life skills are not gear capped. You really think most lifeskillers are at 2k mastery?
That’s not how life works irl people that are smart or investing make much more money then a builder or a soldier. Hard work will never earn more money then smart work in real life
36:00 Crystal and exp loss on death is a dogshit system and should be removed, there problem solved there is no longer any danger in PvE. Just inconveniences and we got the gathering minigame to cover for that.
No. lifeskills should be used as passive income or catch-up machanic. ik if i would of missed the account transfer id just stick to lifeskilling until 700gs and swap to pve grinding knowing it makes more.
Console still hasn’t had lifeskills combined not till may 14 when That does happen then the infinite energy thing makes sense. But you only recover 1 per hour offline thought. I ran out of energy on all 20 of my rooms one day milking cows thought t uses 10 energy each time. Milk is very necessary for cooking. And milk is never on the market. And a never materials unless it’s olives very cheep
Dehkia ash forest is more afk than shadow lion hunting, if you are firstly not bad at the game and secondly, have just a little bit of dp you can literally sleep at Dash
Okay my comment here might get flamed, but I'm guessing this is specific to NA? Because as a returning player with GS of 660, sniper rifle hunting is insane money per hour on EU? Better than Elvia Giants/Orcs ect and even close to endgame grinding with 2k mastery. I'm going to sound like a degenerate but I did in fact make a spreadsheet to track money per hour while watching this video. For accuracy I will give details of setup. I am guru 10 hunting so not too far into leveling, but not little either. Mastery level is 1650. Here are the results from 1 hour - (this includes only things that sell on the central market - so supreme hide is excluded and breath of morning is at vendor value) - Also crystals are not included as they require crafting extra time but does increase the money per hour depending on which crystal is received - brutal and forest crystals make profit - frozen bitterness does not - but if you took 5 minutes to make the profitable crystals and sell it would add roughly 100M per hour to your total - just didn't want to add in case someone says 'you got a crystal, whenever I hunt I get zero ect) ITEM NUMBER PRICE SOLD ON CENTRAL MARKET pig blood 10,451 52,777,550 bear blood 703 3,444,700 tiger blood 132 158,400 pork 22,927 318,685,300 bear meat 1,560 21,996,000 tiger meat 332 2,423,600 black gem 101 202,000,000 black gem fragment 238 345,100,000 sharp black crystal shard 31 60,760,000 concentrated magical black gem 6 90,000,000 Breath of Morning 31 62,000,000 Spirit pouch of ferocious beast 40 96,000,000 Caphras stone 19 37,050,000 TOTAL 1,292,395,550 TAX VALUE 1,230,395,550 (BREATH OF MORNING VENDOR VALUE DEDUCTED) TAX (used 0.845% sale value) 190,711,310 MONEY PER HOUR 1,101,684,240 As you can see, hunting is in more than a good enough spot - if I had 2k mastery obviously these figures would be higher - Also I wasn't paying full attention as I was watching this video so if you sweated it you could obviously make slightly more in the loot numbers. I have done maybe 30 hours or so in the couple of months of hunting and these numbers are pretty standard, some are higher some are lower but the average money per hour is roughly the same, maybe slightly less than normal. I think if you pay attention and had 2k mastery - making 1.8 -2B an hour sniper hunting is more than possible. My guild leader is 2k mastery and is 735 GS and does dekkia cyclops and even he says that the money per hour is the same if you included selling prices, but obviously endgame grinding gives Debo's which barely sell on the CM. Sorry if anyone was trying to keep the value of hunting hidden.
I did sniper hunting for the first time. Got up on a rock off the ground so i can see further and things would have a hard time reaching me. Bro I shot a bear 1 time and 2 bears charged me and climbed up to me in less than a second when i tried to run i skipped into a crack and couldn't do anything. I lost half my hp going into the menu to unequp my gun and re equip weapons just so i could jump out of the tiny gap. I almost died the first time hunting. Never did get a kill.
22:30 you call him a casual for not having the +1 energy/tick buff when he got the +30 energy/tick buff running? At that point you might as well call him out for not playing a Shai and not using the Bonfire Tool :P
How does lifeskilling less effort than grinding if you gather all your materials and hunt all of you meat etc it’s takes way more effort than grinding actually . Because you need to do research on the recipes and locations of and what is there. I can grind for my intimate health potion while watching tv when I’m 1 shoting mobs. And then go grind trees and get billions of silver. I like to life skill and grind so the grinding doesn’t get boring
Alot of lifeskillers fail to notice that if lifeskilling truly was as profitable and equal as grinding and a solid subsitute to grinding then SURELY, waaaaaaay more people would resort to just lifeskilling to "grind" their PvP or PvE gears. But what would that do? It would flood the market even further, making supplies just sit on the market due to more supply less demand and just crash the prices on most materials- ultimately still resulting in less money vs grinding monsters.
As I don’t often, I’m going to have to disagree with blue on some of your takes. You’re crazy if you think I’m going to drag alt characters all the way out in the desert to gather scorpions. You have to look at life skills differently than grinding. The majority of life skills are beneficial for people who can remote in to their computer and play the game while not at home. Example - I can stomach five hours of gathering, not five hours of grinding. I can turn that five hours of gathering into 8 billion silver while at work. So I don’t count it into my per hour. I will say what I’ve told many people that I have convinced to play BDO. Do what you enjoy and in turn you’ll make more silver than doing something you don’t enjoy. Also, I’d like to note i’m a guru 56 cook with 2K mastery. and I don’t cook while I’m actively at my computer. When I’m active I grind on my 740 gear score maegu. Life skills do not need to be more silver per hour than grinding. Then everyone would do it and it would crash the market. And I don’t need anymore min-listers On the central market. Keep grinders grinding.
Hey Blue, Love your content especially pvp vod reviews. But I will be honest 2nd video In a row I see you making fun of ppl making s/h while grinding by Garmoth number's. Any that's been grinding for a bit nowadays knows that Garmoth numbers are very very outdated. Especially for mid spot's. People learned rotations/setup's and theese TL number's now stand more as new player coming for first few hours goals. But get way higher after you learn spot's. Let's take a look at few examples that even you mentioned in this video. With minimum setup of ~209% drop rate(lv1/2 Scroll, Kama, tent, 2-step token and let's say min 12% eco) Orc Camp - Garmoth says average is 24k TL on Lv2 scroll. Which is REALY low. Any class with minimum Demi lightstone setup can get +30k TL there, some going as high as 44k TL(*couch maegu *couch nova *couch). As we talking about some1 getting to AP cap which is super low 856 an can be done relativelly early with simple consumables. And yes this put's Orc's from RAW TL between 900-1b/h. And you can't not count Shard's. Because both Fogans/Biragi farming on side even if it net's you less RAW TL/h still bring in total a lot of s/h. As example before the Cups event Orc's(+32kTL)+Fogans(+29kTL) on EU was an average 1,5b/h on 229%DR as getting cup was done in 7-8h and after selling it netting you in total between 10,5 and 12b post taxes. On NA it was even wildier btw. Another spot widelly underlooked Jade Forest. On Garmoth Lv2+Agris it's barelly 30k average. Which again is player that's learning rotation number's. It's been proven couple month's ago that ANY class that's does proper rotation and mechanics can get +40k TL, some going +50k too or even higher as 63k(*couch Nova merchant Pawel). Yes this spot get's better with higher gear too coz it's been proven that totems dont have AP cap. But that's where the 50k number''s come in vision. And again Ember's cant be disregarded coz you not spending there 1h afterall. This zone even at 650gs is consistent 1,5-1,7b if grinded considerable amounth of hours. And for the ending thoughs I'll mention Star's End. 1st 9k TL is really bad. 14k is an average on Lv1 scroll but theres is big but. All these nice numbers like ~3 distos/h is beeing done in Marni realm. So somehow I can agree on your position there coz Garmoth just missleading new player there coz it's not saying all these logs is from Marni realm. Same as Under Gyfin's 27k TL nowadays is bare minimum on like 285 AP and players that hit 301 bracket get's easilly 32k+ on Lv2. Even tho that zone in my opinion is overrated and only good for semi-afk grinding and EXP. For conclusion I just wanna say I think you a bit behind on how much ppl improved nowadays grinding and Garmoth is super missleading and can be used only as bare minimum breakpoint goals as TL. Anyways keep doing great content, you killing with it and good luck in Austin will be rooting for you!
Even sweaty grinding isn't that hard once you learn each spot and rotation. Also what risk? Dying? Oh no, you lose your elixir buffs! Meanwhile hunting and gathering are tedious, boring, require rotation knowledge, require just as much prep, and you get jack shit for doing it. Grinding mobs is brainless and gives you more money. So why bother?
Blue, That is not true with sailing. You can not afk sea monster hunt, it require constant attention and movement. Hunting and sniper hunting do require a lot of movement as well. And just because life skilling does not get you wet, does not mean it does not for others. Gathering to cook for 6 moths or a years worth of guru boxes def takes longer than you getting house and tent buffs. How about you interview real life skillers before you give your causal viewpoint. All of this takes TIME. Visit Florin sometime. And it is not just one set of artifacts and lightstones for life skilling. Again, Talk to real people who do this for real.
I think apm is a HORRIBLE metric to balance profit off of. No reason that you shouldnt be able to make comparitive money in all three major forms of content in bdo (pve, life skilling, pvp). they should all be euqally profitable in relation to silver/time investment.
@@Domaining96 Because you should be able to play the game the way you want and make good money. The type of activity shouldn’t matter, what should matter is that your being productive and investing time and silver to make profit. Why is this a difficult concept for people to understand? you think its fair that the best PVPers in the world make 4-600 mill an hour for all the effort they put in to being extremely good at pvp? You think the guy with full V manos and a Top end ship should make 500 mill an hour bartering? These things take just as much time as getting the gear to grind Underground gyfins or Elvia Giants if not more. Time/silver Investment should be the way we determine silver per hour. Current system basically penalizes you for not enjoying one form of the game. In a game that promotes and encourages you to play how you want.
@@Ionknowman768 Games are designed a certain way, if you want to play a game the way you see fit there is not a whole lot of options for you cause one way or another a game is gonna force systems into the focus. In BDO the focus is 100% the combat system, so of course they will do whatever it takes to make combat oriented content worthwhile. Also I dont know why you took PVPers into this, cause yeah PVP should def make more silver/hour than it does currently. Cause again it requires two metrics Time and High APM. So yeah PVP should make more for those reasons. A lifeskiller doesnt have those two metrics, the biggest metric lifeskillers have is Time. Which then again can be active/semi-afk or afk. There is no Lifeskill that is as hard/high apm or has a high chance of loosing stuff then grinding does. That doesnt change the fact that APM is a sort of effort put into the game, so it should still be a viable metric to measure effort. Lifeskills are the same as Proffesions or whatever in other MMORPGS they are supplementary systems in the game to give the option to do other stuff from time to time. Lifeskills where and never will be the focus of BDO. BTW before you say i dont know what im talking about im guru 20+ on Gathering/Hunting/Cooking/Alchemy.
@@Ionknowman768 Stop having a "i need to minmax everything" mindset and you'll be much happier in bdo I can do and focus on other stuff while I (semi-) active lifeskill, I can't do much else when grinding. More effort should be rewarded more, otherwise majority of the playerbase would only do the least effort possible and it'd slowly die out. Same for risk, your risk to lose anything doing lifeskill is so much lower. I do a bit of everything in BDO, I agree that lifeskill could use some buffs and new content but it should never be equal
@@liyatini Do you play bdo the MMO or Bdo the solo rpg? If you have any interest in group pvp activities like PvP, MOST guilds are going to want you to have a steady gear progression. The entire main objective of the game is Gear progression. The number 1 hands down reason bdo isnt a much larger game is because people dont want to grind mobs for hours on end. I guarantee the games popularity would skyrocket if Life Skilling and Pvping made similar money to grinding. The problem is that bdo as a game has all these different mechanics to engage with, and one is significantly more effective at the games core goal, “Gear Progession” , is actually a balance flaw. Currently the only way to make gains in a timely manner is to wack mobs for hours on end. The sheer amount of friends I have that refuse to play the game because of this singular reason is astonishing. Especially for a supposed “Sandbox” game.
I don't understand why APM should be the metric that determines how much money you make in this game. It should be time investment, resource investment. Life skillers have to gear just like those that PVE. Let's stop pretending that APM means anything when every single one of us watch netflix when we grind?
Not only do you not risk losing crystals but your also pressing like 3 buttons going from tree to tree. So explain why it should make the same as some classes using half their keyboard for 1 combo while risking crystals at the spots that actually do make more then lifeskilling.
@@exilehunter2493 risking crystals is such a yawn argument. If you are worried about losing crystals, you probably shouldn't be at that spot. Again it doesn't matter. Time investment should be the real measurement. Life skillers do a lot of work outside of actually life Skilling, spread sheets so on. Should it be one to one as a grinder? Probably not but it should be a lot closer than it is now
@treue2008 I don't think the risk of crystals is something to look past when lifeskills do make more money then grinding circles if your not grinding high end spots. If you wanna make over a bill grinding mobs then your gonna be at spots with mechanics that can and will kill you or the mobs will do it themselves regardless of your gear. This includes but is not limited to trolls, dehkia ash, tungrad ruins and highlands ect. The first 3 being the best silver per hour of grind also comes with decent risk 1 mistake could mean a 5bil tear loss. You simply don't have these risks unless your hunting and in that case you maybe lost a couple 100mil that's it.
Whose to say he doesn't have a Shai as a primary gatherer, basically all toons are now, his could be low on energy, you're just assuming stuff. And, f*** just playing one or two classes across all available character slots, that's kinda boring.
You're not wrong. I made some assumptions. I was really just trying to be cheeky in a helpful way. For what he's doing in the footage, he should be on a Valk. He'd be gathering more mats in less time, which is essentially the point he was trying to bring up. I don't know if you've ever gathered those areas on a Valk (like I have for years), no other class is as easy/ productive for packs of animals.
I was wondering what could be more boring then my math classes. Damn dude you are doing a video about a game, you are not explaining Integrals, make it shorter make it funny to watch.
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Hello Blue, creator of the video here.
Thank you so much for your reaction. It was one of my dreams when I started youtube to see you react to some of my content, so to see it happen so soon after I started is crazy to me. Even if we disagree on some of what I said, it is really cool of you to give a tiny creator like me a shot. At the very least, I know what to improve on in my future content. So thank you once again, handsome!
Definitely try to gather second opinion. Make a podcast, go discuss. We'd watch the hell out of it
Just a thought for your opinion. End game life skill gear v end game grind gear the LS gear is a lot cheaper by a good trillion silver
if only PA made system that make end game lifeskill more dangerous, more investment on gear, plus more rare item to sell to the npc. Then lifeskill would be comparable to pve lol
@@MrAnatolius Sounds like a great idea! I will try to find someone who would be willing to discuss these and any future topics.
@@jeffd9658 I suppose the actual number depends on what you consider to be endgame gear, but I agree. The higher in GS you go, the further the divide between the cost of it and LS gear will be.
Endgame life skiller here. The money from life skilling doesn't need to be in same line with grinding. It should be enough to make us stay a float to make meaninful progression. Majority of life skillers are also grinders because it is more efficient time wise than pure life skills. Only very small dedicated hard core people 100% life skill and make good profit out of it and even they haven't been having good time lately. Gathering, fishing, cooking, alchemy, processing, trading and bartering are not what they used to be. They need some help to get back on track.
I agree. I dont think theres many people that thinks any lifeskills should be on par with the highest end of grinding, but I think most people can agree that the sheer gap between grinding and Life Skills is a little bit much when you take into account whats involved to get started with each. You need to grind out a bunch energy to do any sort of gathering, you need to then grind your skills up to make it even worth it with the extra drops, etc. You need to get a bunch of mastery, which if youre newer good luck with that.
But with grinding? A new player can make their first season character, get their PEN Tuvala and make a lot more silver an hour out of the gate with what is essentially a couple days work. Maybe a week tops. But there no equivilent to Life Skills, because those new players dont get handed a set of gear for any of the life skills, dont have the energy and mastery to maximize the benefit of the resources theyve gathered/bought, they dont have the skill levels to either.
I think it just needs to be brought up a little bit so life skills arent left behind so badly and new players can actually look at getting into them without griefing themselves.
Not gonna lie; As a lifeskiller Blue's joke about lifeskillers always having excel sheets and powerpoints hit me right in the feels.
Just curious do people really make spreadsheet for bdo?I thought it's just the youtubers making content
I make a list of alchemy blood types to have on my wall before it was listed by group and simplified
@@littleprince8164 Yes right now it's mainly to keep notes of what I am doing and what old prices were. Most of my spreadsheets have been replaced by bdolytics.
@littleprince8164 I track how much I get doing various activities. The online guides are a general rule but my sheets track exactly what I can do with my character and where.
I opened my first excel sheet today before watching this video. Imagine the mindfook!
just ignore the fact that you have to have 350-400cp to build the worker empire, you have to be running the game non-stop, hire workers, skill workers, the whole setup effort for empire is huge and then you have to sit there and wait for the mats/resources to come in before you can even do anything with it
The biggest issue with lifeskills is demand. Where as grinders can always make the bulk of their money via trash loot (and thus 0 tax) lifeskillers are almost always faced with the tax. Imperial delivery is not enough and needs a major overhaul.
Another issue is yeah we have family lifeskills now, but where is the incentive to push past g50 in anything when there is literally nothing to show for the effort? Oh an icon? 😒 Imagine if for grinders you can push for gear, but nothing past 700 gs actually brings any benefit?
Manos has been out for like 4+ years. How have lifeskillers not gotten new tiers of gear in all this time?
How about new recipes? Why are we still using Valencia and Balenos meals as the major profit center for cooking? Alchemy is the same old elixirs.
Lastly let’s circle around back to silver. I would be fine, as a 2k mastery lifeskilller, making 80% of grinder money. The issue is, 90% of the time, I would just be financially better off just grinding a mid tier spot
Fishing needs a total rework. Not only is the silver poor, but the mechanics are weak, and there is nothing fun to do with it. Gathering needs alot more. Meat gathering compared to Hunting is laughable, or the resources are limited or rng like Truffles or Delotia essence. Saps and blood gathering per hour is laughable. Bartering is a joke. Farming is as well. (This is suppose to be a sand box mmo and both activities are heavily gated…in 2024?).
I like lifeskills, but as they currently are, they are not very rewarding in silver or just enjoyment. They feel like a part of the game, PA forgets even exists.
add trash drops to life skills. that would help alot. Like I farm Shadow lions, have them drop dark fur worth 20,000 per drop or something. Add another drop to gathering like Basic herb, have it cost 15,000
To your 2nd point.... Past 720gs you're getting like 100 trash loot more/h for spending 300B, hence your point is invalid
totally agree. another thing to keep in mind is the bottleneck materials in cooking and alchemy specifically. the reason why people are still making balenos and valencia meals is that the loml meals for examples are gated by node materials. alchemy as well is very limited on materials, and while the combining of traces and fruits did help in the short term, in the long term the demand of the elixirs far outweighs anyones ability to gather those fruits and especially traces.
@@mtdominik100 trash is still more than 0 extra drops from going past 2k mastery
@@Ionknowman768 tbh that's a good idea to an extent.
The thing is, that i can go Gyfin Underground and do a super chill grind while watching anime reading subtitles. And still make 1B/h, where around 800k is raw trash money. No prep just tent and food.
Even the sweatiest hunt with full preperation doesn't make me that much money. Maybe shadow lions with insane head drop luck, idk.
You're hunting wrong
But you forgot about gear prep for combat which is tens of billions
@@Pughheadgyfin underground ap is 100b alone lol.
What is the cost of your combat gear vs the cost of your hunting gear/life skill? I bet the combat gear is like 15x more in price. Ofc there is no equality to the outcome in such scenario
For your takes on lifeskilling, I give you a blondbear/10
18:50 I have 20+ lightstone sets for lifeskills and 5 sets for grinding.
Yeah sure in gathering you only use 1 set of light stones due to how good the stats are but basically every other life skill us use multiple different sets.
As for Hunting you actually want to swap gear and crystals depending on if your killing the mob or gathering the mob. You do this in a few gathering locations to.
Cooking I got 4 different sets I use. Alchemy 3., Prosesing 2. Fishing 3. Traning 3. Trading and farming only uses each 1 because they are not lifekills according to PA so they dont use the mastery system. Same for sailing and bartering you just decide if you want to move faster or get more exp.
As for grinding I use ALL-OUT-ATTACK, Shadows and The Wild: Kama, demi and human.
Life skilling needs a massive buff. I have an interest in PvE and life skilling, but atm the life skilling stuff is worth so little it doesn't even seem like you should do it unless you REALLY REALLY want to. There's no incentive at all because refining all the materials into the stuff you would actually want to use is more time consuming and annoying then just grinding some mobs and buying your consumables off the market. I don't want to see them just increase all the prices on stuff where it would affect the current grinders increasing their cost of consumables. I would just like to see them add some raw silver value to the life skills akin to trash loot from grinding so you've got some stable income and some market income.
1:07:50
If you want exp you do ocean gathering or seed gathering not Behr assuming you have the gathering minigame active.
Gathering exp:
1: The base gathering EXP can be different but fixed for every item you get, for example Monk’s Branch gives you more EXP than Weeds.
2: EXP is given based on the number of slots in the gathering loot window, not the number of items you gathered. For example getting 20 Weeds in 1 loot window slot will give you half the exp you get for getting 2 individual Weeds in 2 different loot window slots each.
3: The gathering minigame will give you 10X the regular EXP amount.
4: The gathering minigame will give you 10X the regular amount of items.
5: Gathering exp is generated when the gathering window opens, not when items are picked up.
6: Items like seeds and trade items from ocean gathering do not stack.
Point 1 thru 5 applies in Behr the final point is what makes seed and ocean gathering good. So here is the idea:
7: The base exp (point 1) for each inventory slot of seeds, lobsters and pearls are high.
8: combine points 2,4 and 6 this will give you 10 times the amount of slots that gives you the EXP mentioned in point 7.
9: Now we combine point 8 with point 3 and we have 10 more items than normal that each give 10 times more exp and the base value of that exp is high. So we end up with “alot_of_EXP * 10 * 10” or “alot_of_EXP * 100”.
TLDR the gathering minigame broke seed and ocean gathering exp and one of the reasons why Bairog got some of his Pistanity clips the past month or so.
I actually think he did a good job with the graph at 10:35 Gathering/hunting/grinding DEMAND you are tabbed into the game to preform the task, while the other lifeskilling requires you to tab in every once in a while or never.
Agree.. but think he should have broken up grinding into endgame and mid game grinding. There are grinds where u gotta be paying attention and then there are grinds where you can be holding 4 buttons on a guardian for 59 second intervals. There's also chill gathering and sweaty meta Musa gathering... active cooking alchemy and processing could be a category and higher up on activity cuz you get 15-20min breaks imbetween setups.
Engagement would of been more fitting metric to use over Activity, which I think the graph represents, just labelled wrong.
17:30 No energy for gathering is not infinite with the account wide lifeskills, it takes a character 28 days to get to my energy cap while being offline, that gives me 1 about more hour of gathering every month for every character that I am willing to move away from were I have it parked and if I resist using its energy to lvl up a node. This is of course ignoring the LT/maids you need to actually gather on said alt.
A character that's offline generates 720 energy in 30 days. A character that online generates 14400 in 30 days (43200 energy/30days with the kama buff). So if you have 20(60) alts you double your energy you get every day.
Now what we can see that energy is not an infinite resource for gathering after the account wide life skill update let's dive in to why energy is a limiting factor for gathering.
A character generates 20 energy every hour they are online (60 with kama buff). For infinite energy to be a ting you need to find a spot were you can gather for less than 20(60) energy/h. I personally burn 400-700+ energy /h depending on the spot, so your energy eventually runs out and you cant gather any more aka limiting you and forcing you to take a 10-30h break between every gathering session.
JUST USE ENERGY POTION! ... what energy potions? the old 50 energy ones with 15k pre orders on the MP or the new LoML ones with 2k pre orders? Ooh you think I should buy energy potions with pearls... yeah no.
Hey now that I have gone thru the numbers, I have 20 alts I can set aside for gathering giving me about 1 extra hour of gathering every day (even if that hour is going to be torture due to having to deal with having 1/5th or less LT than my main lifeskiller its still double the amount of hours I can reliably do in one day)
Exactly. 1 Energy regen per 30 minutes on alts is bullshit and so limiting. I really enjoy gathering, it's sad as a relatively new player that i can only do it for 30 minutes every few hours. I even got the yawning hedgehog lightstone set just for that extra 1 energy generation :(.
@@boogusnutsack5926 I'm under the assumption that you get 1 energy every hour like they state in game. and that alts do not benefit from things like lightstone effects while offline at all.
Defining effort with apm takes research and planning out of the equation, not to mention skill. PvP and life skills both need to be at least 75 percent of an average grind spot.
most of the time blue is saying nothing from what the video is talking about, for example, every graph was not about effort, it is metrics for the effort the Luneye is setting tho, and no part of the video he says that lifeskilling is the same effort as grind, blue take the arguments out of nothing that he is defending lifeskilling is more effort or close, he just bring up the points about effort, sometimes looks just like blue is ignoring what the guy says in the video, of course its content and he is just saying something to do the content, but in some parts he loses the porpoise of the video.
Exactly this, he's just being a contrarian
49:20 Yes that's exactly the point and why life skills are limited by energy. If I want to do 2 hours of gathering back to back I cant because I need to wait a day for my energy to recover.
A: add on your pre orders on top of the 15k or 2k pre existing pre orders and pray they fill before you go gathering.
B: spend 200 energy from a alt to get 1 50 energy potion, this kills your account wide life skill argument.
C: use your alt with less than 1/5th of the LT of your main. and lifeskills give you more than 1 heavy stack of item so horse stacking is not a thing. better swipe for the maids :D
D: figure out the next time its night in game then spend a hour getting the materials for the LoML Herbal Medicine during that night (if you dont find enough by the end of the night then LUL get good) every time you feel like doing back to back gathering sessions.
I think lifeskilling is just a preference, at the end of the day whatever you do more of (ie lifeskilling or pve grinding) is best, if you see yourself gathering 20 hrs a week without getting bored then thats profitable for you! At the end of the day you're in it for the long haul, would love to see some changes in lifeskilling though.
Agree with your points about risk and return. Active game play should be rewarded well. AFK Lifeskilling should never make as much money as active grinder unless if PA wants to encourage people not to play the game anymore and have servers remain silent and dead with nobody moving around anymore.
If you really want to know why life skills need a rework, look at my comments on this video, I am "actively" lifeskilling right now. only 104,331 Witch's Delicacy left until I am 500 CP :P
1:01:38 Crystallized Despair have not changed in price at all for the past 3 months, its a perfectly flat line nothing like the graph your looking at.
Bartering and Trading should probably get a bit of a gold buff.
Life skiller here, when i run out of energy on main character, I go grind low tier grind zones, its more money anyway.
Bruh ive definitely lost crystals gathering... theres alot of dead tree essence spots that are right on the border of tshira.
Get an inifinite pot
"His argument was poor." Just like him. 8)
As a hardcap lifeskiller, lifeskill is in a decent spot, the only buff i'd like to see is imperial to contribution points be 1:1 instead of 1:2 to increase demand. It would hurt supply a ton for worker matts but that also means workers = more money. win win. I can currently make 1-3b per hour (average 1.5b on right meals, 2b+ during event if i have money saved)
Also he doesn't take into account Miraculous Herbal Medicine: +500 energy right off and +30 per tick for an hour.
I enjoy lifeskilling because its chill and therapeutic for me as an individual. Either way it goes, I put in hours into the game just like a grinder does..
I also enjoy pvp as well.. but grinding is just not my forte. I don't like the idea that I need to tag a pve class just to make comparable money to a sweaty grinder and lifeskilling has been a great alternative for me to be able to compete.
Lifeskilling has great mechanics and activities I like to do, but it's just a waste of time imo
I honestly dont see why one or the other cares... If all you do is grind why would you care if someone lifeskilling makes as much as you, wtf cares, i think my hour of gameplay should be as valuable as your hour of gameplay. Thats why i get bothered when you have grinders saying lifeskillers make to much or life skillers saying grinders make to much, WTF cares. Choice has 100 trillion silver and doesnt effect how i play or enjoy my game, so whether grinding or lifeskilling makes more, i dont fkn care cuz i play the game to enjoy and someone making more silver per hour based on activty doesnt matter, you could tell me i could make 5 bil cooking but i aint gunna do it, cuz cooking is boring as shit, rather be out killing some mobs and doing shit
It pains me to grind more than 15min. So, I have life skills running while I play something else on another screen.
I active lifeskill maybe 90% of the my time, we shouldn't make as much as grinders, but definitely more than we do now. The unification of some materials made a few (more) things not worth doing. His graph should be engagement required, not activity.
If APM is the factor deciding how much money u should get, u gotta buff kuno asap into succ maegu territory BEFORE EVERY nerf.
I have lost more crystals in sniper rifle hunting than grind but im still loving it now because im making consistent and with crystal drop rng way more than grinding at elvia. Im not even 2k mastery and +9 sniper rifle only but i still make more than on grinding. Plus, sniper hunting does not make me sleepy 30 mins in grinding. haha!
Precciessing- depends on woight you got - with 6000+ LT - making cheese can take hours.
PA should increase the prices of all gatherable item that require manual gathering and the item that hard to gather and the process material food that take time to make not that its more than grinding but atleast make it balance so ppl want to do and sell those item and gatherable
5:06, Meanwhile when Bairoghan minmax hunting be like : 🗿🗿🗿
One of the problems with making these comparisons is understanding overhead costs and Return on Investment (ROI). Current metrics that most players use don't take into account the cost of the equipment and time value of that investment when looking at the overall profitability of the activities. We look at the flat operating revenue instead of how efficiently those funds are being reinvested and how quickly those funds can be cycled and then reinvested.
A little more color would be to compare a guy with a food truck compared to a McDonalds. Say the food truck sunk cost are $50K and the McDonalds is $500K. The food truck makes $500 a day operating profit and the McD's makes $2000. Just looking on the raw numbers, the McD looks way more profitable. When looking at the ROI, the food truck is over double what the restaurant is on a daily basis.
you can allright lose a crystal in LOML if you shoot way too much mobs, miss way too much or just get a bad crit from a tiger.
No, because Lifeskill was always money/day, instead of money/hour.
Lifeskills should make more stable money than they do right now, but not more than grinding.
Pretty easy question, why is this over one hour long?
legit just clicked in and checked the comments thinking the exact same thing
I active lifeskill maybe 90% of the my time, I agree, we shouldn't make as much as grinders, but definitely more than we do now. Even if we did in regards to trash loot value, market tax eats a lot of our potential profit.
3rd comment 19:40 yes people use Secret Book of Florin. 20:15 no most life skills are not gear capped. You really think most lifeskillers are at 2k mastery?
blue your wrong you would only at max have 20 more energy lol because your not logged in
That’s not how life works irl people that are smart or investing make much more money then a builder or a soldier. Hard work will never earn more money then smart work in real life
36:00 Crystal and exp loss on death is a dogshit system and should be removed, there problem solved there is no longer any danger in PvE. Just inconveniences and we got the gathering minigame to cover for that.
No. lifeskills should be used as passive income or catch-up machanic. ik if i would of missed the account transfer id just stick to lifeskilling until 700gs and swap to pve grinding knowing it makes more.
I just want trading and anything about sailing to be a 1-3b per hour kind of grind.
25:30 No 2k, no opinion. Smart argument.
Console still hasn’t had lifeskills combined not till may 14 when That does happen then the infinite energy thing makes sense. But you only recover 1 per hour offline thought. I ran out of energy on all 20 of my rooms one day milking cows thought t uses 10 energy each time. Milk is very necessary for cooking. And milk is never on the market. And a never materials unless it’s olives very cheep
As a dAsh grinder i fear having to gather at behr
Dehkia ash forest is more afk than shadow lion hunting, if you are firstly not bad at the game and secondly, have just a little bit of dp you can literally sleep at Dash
Just plug a controller ninja suddenly becomes easy
Okay my comment here might get flamed, but I'm guessing this is specific to NA? Because as a returning player with GS of 660, sniper rifle hunting is insane money per hour on EU? Better than Elvia Giants/Orcs ect and even close to endgame grinding with 2k mastery.
I'm going to sound like a degenerate but I did in fact make a spreadsheet to track money per hour while watching this video. For accuracy I will give details of setup. I am guru 10 hunting so not too far into leveling, but not little either. Mastery level is 1650.
Here are the results from 1 hour -
(this includes only things that sell on the central market - so supreme hide is excluded and breath of morning is at vendor value) - Also crystals are not included as they require crafting extra time but does increase the money per hour depending on which crystal is received - brutal and forest crystals make profit - frozen bitterness does not - but if you took 5 minutes to make the profitable crystals and sell it would add roughly 100M per hour to your total - just didn't want to add in case someone says 'you got a crystal, whenever I hunt I get zero ect)
ITEM NUMBER PRICE SOLD ON CENTRAL MARKET
pig blood 10,451 52,777,550
bear blood 703 3,444,700
tiger blood 132 158,400
pork 22,927 318,685,300
bear meat 1,560 21,996,000
tiger meat 332 2,423,600
black gem 101 202,000,000
black gem fragment 238 345,100,000
sharp black crystal shard 31 60,760,000
concentrated magical black gem 6 90,000,000
Breath of Morning 31 62,000,000
Spirit pouch of ferocious beast 40 96,000,000
Caphras stone 19 37,050,000
TOTAL 1,292,395,550
TAX VALUE 1,230,395,550 (BREATH OF MORNING VENDOR VALUE DEDUCTED)
TAX (used 0.845% sale value) 190,711,310
MONEY PER HOUR 1,101,684,240
As you can see, hunting is in more than a good enough spot - if I had 2k mastery obviously these figures would be higher - Also I wasn't paying full attention as I was watching this video so if you sweated it you could obviously make slightly more in the loot numbers.
I have done maybe 30 hours or so in the couple of months of hunting and these numbers are pretty standard, some are higher some are lower but the average money per hour is roughly the same, maybe slightly less than normal. I think if you pay attention and had 2k mastery - making 1.8 -2B an hour sniper hunting is more than possible. My guild leader is 2k mastery and is 735 GS and does dekkia cyclops and even he says that the money per hour is the same if you included selling prices, but obviously endgame grinding gives Debo's which barely sell on the CM.
Sorry if anyone was trying to keep the value of hunting hidden.
I really really want active fishing to be a thing.....
Stars end is consistent too
Consistently shit
'You wont lose crystals gatehri9ng', ive lost two crystals gathering because i went afk too close to where lions respawn.
Sniper hunting would like to have a word too xD
I did sniper hunting for the first time. Got up on a rock off the ground so i can see further and things would have a hard time reaching me. Bro I shot a bear 1 time and 2 bears charged me and climbed up to me in less than a second when i tried to run i skipped into a crack and couldn't do anything. I lost half my hp going into the menu to unequp my gun and re equip weapons just so i could jump out of the tiny gap. I almost died the first time hunting. Never did get a kill.
SLIPPED into a crack*
22:30 you call him a casual for not having the +1 energy/tick buff when he got the +30 energy/tick buff running? At that point you might as well call him out for not playing a Shai and not using the Bonfire Tool :P
He's talking about events driving the lifeskill market, so how about we take a look at accessories prices over last 3 months...
Guru bartering is a semi active one. Im a guru barterer
I just started like 3 weeks ago my first guild boss day i got garmoth heart
THERES NO RISK TO LIFESKILL though xD
Before watching, no.
How does lifeskilling less effort than grinding if you gather all your materials and hunt all of you meat etc it’s takes way more effort than grinding actually . Because you need to do research on the recipes and locations of and what is there. I can grind for my intimate health potion while watching tv when I’m 1 shoting mobs. And then go grind trees and get billions of silver. I like to life skill and grind so the grinding doesn’t get boring
Alot of lifeskillers fail to notice that if lifeskilling truly was as profitable and equal as grinding and a solid subsitute to grinding then SURELY, waaaaaaay more people would resort to just lifeskilling to "grind" their PvP or PvE gears. But what would that do? It would flood the market even further, making supplies just sit on the market due to more supply less demand and just crash the prices on most materials- ultimately still resulting in less money vs grinding monsters.
ive died a lot more on horse riding vs tuvala grinding coz of griefers haha (based on the chart 35:39)
The only thing that should matter is time. They are both putting in similar time, so the return should be similar.
No
Just grind flowers and craft many recover 500 energy items and grind on all charakters boom 😂
GO mine the price of ingots always high with lots of drops
As I don’t often, I’m going to have to disagree with blue on some of your takes.
You’re crazy if you think I’m going to drag alt characters all the way out in the desert to gather scorpions.
You have to look at life skills differently than grinding.
The majority of life skills are beneficial for people who can remote in to their computer and play the game while not at home.
Example -
I can stomach five hours of gathering, not five hours of grinding.
I can turn that five hours of gathering into 8 billion silver while at work. So I don’t count it into my per hour.
I will say what I’ve told many people that I have convinced to play BDO. Do what you enjoy and in turn you’ll make more silver than doing something you don’t enjoy.
Also, I’d like to note i’m a guru 56 cook with 2K mastery. and I don’t cook while I’m actively at my computer. When I’m active I grind on my 740 gear score maegu.
Life skills do not need to be more silver per hour than grinding. Then everyone would do it and it would crash the market. And I don’t need anymore min-listers On the central market. Keep grinders grinding.
bro is complaining about lifeskill money when he is literally sapping trees in the background
Is this chris poli brother?
Yo who the fuck is buying loot a scrolls nowadays lmfaooo I gr8nd daily and have hundreds and have lost scrolls on when I shouldn't lmaoo
Hey Blue,
Love your content especially pvp vod reviews. But I will be honest 2nd video In a row I see you making fun of ppl making s/h while grinding by Garmoth number's. Any that's been grinding for a bit nowadays knows that Garmoth numbers are very very outdated. Especially for mid spot's. People learned rotations/setup's and theese TL number's now stand more as new player coming for first few hours goals. But get way higher after you learn spot's. Let's take a look at few examples that even you mentioned in this video. With minimum setup of ~209% drop rate(lv1/2 Scroll, Kama, tent, 2-step token and let's say min 12% eco)
Orc Camp - Garmoth says average is 24k TL on Lv2 scroll. Which is REALY low. Any class with minimum Demi lightstone setup can get +30k TL there, some going as high as 44k TL(*couch maegu *couch nova *couch). As we talking about some1 getting to AP cap which is super low 856 an can be done relativelly early with simple consumables. And yes this put's Orc's from RAW TL between 900-1b/h. And you can't not count Shard's. Because both Fogans/Biragi farming on side even if it net's you less RAW TL/h still bring in total a lot of s/h. As example before the Cups event Orc's(+32kTL)+Fogans(+29kTL) on EU was an average 1,5b/h on 229%DR as getting cup was done in 7-8h and after selling it netting you in total between 10,5 and 12b post taxes. On NA it was even wildier btw.
Another spot widelly underlooked Jade Forest. On Garmoth Lv2+Agris it's barelly 30k average. Which again is player that's learning rotation number's. It's been proven couple month's ago that ANY class that's does proper rotation and mechanics can get +40k TL, some going +50k too or even higher as 63k(*couch Nova merchant Pawel). Yes this spot get's better with higher gear too coz it's been proven that totems dont have AP cap. But that's where the 50k number''s come in vision. And again Ember's cant be disregarded coz you not spending there 1h afterall. This zone even at 650gs is consistent 1,5-1,7b if grinded considerable amounth of hours.
And for the ending thoughs I'll mention Star's End. 1st 9k TL is really bad. 14k is an average on Lv1 scroll but theres is big but. All these nice numbers like ~3 distos/h is beeing done in Marni realm. So somehow I can agree on your position there coz Garmoth just missleading new player there coz it's not saying all these logs is from Marni realm. Same as Under Gyfin's 27k TL nowadays is bare minimum on like 285 AP and players that hit 301 bracket get's easilly 32k+ on Lv2. Even tho that zone in my opinion is overrated and only good for semi-afk grinding and EXP.
For conclusion I just wanna say I think you a bit behind on how much ppl improved nowadays grinding and Garmoth is super missleading and can be used only as bare minimum breakpoint goals as TL.
Anyways keep doing great content, you killing with it and good luck in Austin will be rooting for you!
What the fuck is APM
Actions per minute. How hard you are working clicking
@@bluesquadronlive thanks Master.
Even sweaty grinding isn't that hard once you learn each spot and rotation. Also what risk? Dying? Oh no, you lose your elixir buffs!
Meanwhile hunting and gathering are tedious, boring, require rotation knowledge, require just as much prep, and you get jack shit for doing it.
Grinding mobs is brainless and gives you more money. So why bother?
Blue, That is not true with sailing. You can not afk sea monster hunt, it require constant attention and movement. Hunting and sniper hunting do require a lot of movement as well. And just because life skilling does not get you wet, does not mean it does not for others. Gathering to cook for 6 moths or a years worth of guru boxes def takes longer than you getting house and tent buffs. How about you interview real life skillers before you give your causal viewpoint. All of this takes TIME. Visit Florin sometime. And it is not just one set of artifacts and lightstones for life skilling. Again, Talk to real people who do this for real.
nice thank
No.
Heh. Guarian will make more money than loml hunter, noice joke.
Nope.
I think apm is a HORRIBLE metric to balance profit off of. No reason that you shouldnt be able to make comparitive money in all three major forms of content in bdo (pve, life skilling, pvp). they should all be euqally profitable in relation to silver/time investment.
How is it a horrible metric to measure xD
@@Domaining96 Because you should be able to play the game the way you want and make good money. The type of activity shouldn’t matter, what should matter is that your being productive and investing time and silver to make profit. Why is this a difficult concept for people to understand? you think its fair that the best PVPers in the world make 4-600 mill an hour for all the effort they put in to being extremely good at pvp? You think the guy with full V manos and a Top end ship should make 500 mill an hour bartering? These things take just as much time as getting the gear to grind Underground gyfins or Elvia Giants if not more. Time/silver Investment should be the way we determine silver per hour. Current system basically penalizes you for not enjoying one form of the game. In a game that promotes and encourages you to play how you want.
@@Ionknowman768 Games are designed a certain way, if you want to play a game the way you see fit there is not a whole lot of options for you cause one way or another a game is gonna force systems into the focus. In BDO the focus is 100% the combat system, so of course they will do whatever it takes to make combat oriented content worthwhile. Also I dont know why you took PVPers into this, cause yeah PVP should def make more silver/hour than it does currently. Cause again it requires two metrics Time and High APM. So yeah PVP should make more for those reasons. A lifeskiller doesnt have those two metrics, the biggest metric lifeskillers have is Time. Which then again can be active/semi-afk or afk. There is no Lifeskill that is as hard/high apm or has a high chance of loosing stuff then grinding does. That doesnt change the fact that APM is a sort of effort put into the game, so it should still be a viable metric to measure effort. Lifeskills are the same as Proffesions or whatever in other MMORPGS they are supplementary systems in the game to give the option to do other stuff from time to time. Lifeskills where and never will be the focus of BDO.
BTW before you say i dont know what im talking about im guru 20+ on Gathering/Hunting/Cooking/Alchemy.
@@Ionknowman768 Stop having a "i need to minmax everything" mindset and you'll be much happier in bdo
I can do and focus on other stuff while I (semi-) active lifeskill, I can't do much else when grinding.
More effort should be rewarded more, otherwise majority of the playerbase would only do the least effort possible and it'd slowly die out. Same for risk, your risk to lose anything doing lifeskill is so much lower.
I do a bit of everything in BDO, I agree that lifeskill could use some buffs and new content but it should never be equal
@@liyatini Do you play bdo the MMO or Bdo the solo rpg? If you have any interest in group pvp activities like PvP, MOST guilds are going to want you to have a steady gear progression. The entire main objective of the game is Gear progression.
The number 1 hands down reason bdo isnt a much larger game is because people dont want to grind mobs for hours on end. I guarantee the games popularity would skyrocket if Life Skilling and Pvping made similar money to grinding. The problem is that bdo as a game has all these different mechanics to engage with, and one is significantly more effective at the games core goal, “Gear Progession” , is actually a balance flaw.
Currently the only way to make gains in a timely manner is to wack mobs for hours on end. The sheer amount of friends I have that refuse to play the game because of this singular reason is astonishing. Especially for a supposed “Sandbox” game.
I don't understand why APM should be the metric that determines how much money you make in this game. It should be time investment, resource investment. Life skillers have to gear just like those that PVE. Let's stop pretending that APM means anything when every single one of us watch netflix when we grind?
Not only do you not risk losing crystals but your also pressing like 3 buttons going from tree to tree. So explain why it should make the same as some classes using half their keyboard for 1 combo while risking crystals at the spots that actually do make more then lifeskilling.
@@exilehunter2493 risking crystals is such a yawn argument. If you are worried about losing crystals, you probably shouldn't be at that spot. Again it doesn't matter. Time investment should be the real measurement. Life skillers do a lot of work outside of actually life Skilling, spread sheets so on. Should it be one to one as a grinder? Probably not but it should be a lot closer than it is now
@treue2008 I don't think the risk of crystals is something to look past when lifeskills do make more money then grinding circles if your not grinding high end spots. If you wanna make over a bill grinding mobs then your gonna be at spots with mechanics that can and will kill you or the mobs will do it themselves regardless of your gear. This includes but is not limited to trolls, dehkia ash, tungrad ruins and highlands ect. The first 3 being the best silver per hour of grind also comes with decent risk 1 mistake could mean a 5bil tear loss. You simply don't have these risks unless your hunting and in that case you maybe lost a couple 100mil that's it.
He's at foxes... on a mermaid... not a shai... certainly not on a Valk... trying to express opinions on the ins and outs of gathering. No sir.
Whose to say he doesn't have a Shai as a primary gatherer, basically all toons are now, his could be low on energy, you're just assuming stuff. And, f*** just playing one or two classes across all available character slots, that's kinda boring.
You're not wrong. I made some assumptions. I was really just trying to be cheeky in a helpful way. For what he's doing in the footage, he should be on a Valk. He'd be gathering more mats in less time, which is essentially the point he was trying to bring up. I don't know if you've ever gathered those areas on a Valk (like I have for years), no other class is as easy/ productive for packs of animals.
Nice
first
I was wondering what could be more boring then my math classes. Damn dude you are doing a video about a game, you are not explaining Integrals, make it shorter make it funny to watch.
😎first comment, Hii blue_dragon
All I got from this is Ninja and Kuno need more PVE buffs… PA!! let’s make it happen!! 🥷🏾🥷🏾🥷🏾🥷🏾🥷🏾