Sage may have a burning hatred for the show, but he's able to word why he hates it very fairly, without insulting people who DO like the show. That's commendable.
Hmmm... still, he is wrong. And that is a pity, because he is a rather intelligent guy who should see more than just "Shinji prefers to wallow in his own problems rather than save the world!" in NGE...
Why is he wrong though though? He got why he's in that position perfectly, and still managed to point out why it doesn't work in the context of the series. His next review also calls out how the symbolism in NGE is, well...PRETENTIOUS and insignificant, which even Anno admitted to be true(the symbols in NGE have more aesthetic value than thematic one, and the show is pretty much the guy's therapy sessions)
What Bennet seems to forget about Shinji is that he is ultimately fighting depression, and the end of the world scenario which he battles over and over can be likened to thoughts of suicide, or ending it all. Those who suffer from suicidal thoughts and depression can often times be treated with impatience and told to "get over it." The series finale (not the film) shows Shinji finally overcoming his depression and growing to love life, finally defeating his biggest monster. At least, that's how I interpreted it.
+TheMegaUzumaki I didn't want either character dead. The point is to see beyond their problems and understand them. It's a persistent theme in the show. Kaji and even Kaworu talk about it.
The series ending is a hell of a lot happier then any of the crap that happened in End of Eva. Instrumentality is archived, and everyone in the series irons out their mental problems though the magic of being a hive-mind. For a huge cop-out that avoided all of the hanging plot threads, it was a very good cop-out.
i doesnt seem bad in one movie called you can not advance asuka gets killed by shinjis eva because his dad controls the eva and makes the eva Crush asuka in a pod or does she get killed by the spear of longinus Sage said she gets killed by the Spear of longinus in one of his video about end of evangelion video I don't know how she dies in the anime series I only seen her die in 2.22
+The Old King Cole in 2.22 wasnt she crushed in the capsule and killed because of shinji's dad controlling the his unit or hers unit that shows you what kind of thing
Wow, Sage. The death threats were AFTER the series, and during the production of End. Anno was on antipsychosis medication for the "crazy" half of Evangelion, and in therapy. ...the budget cuts were external, and Gainax's studio heads were embezzling up to $14 million of the budget.
Ya'll gon make me lose my sync up in here. What these Angels want from a pilot? Shinji Gon Give it to you. Alright I'm done, just had to get it out of my system.
HOULWOOD While I agree this stance is dumb, when it comes down to the end of the world scenario, a person has to buck up against the odds and at least try to salvage what's left. It doesn't help how fucking everyone in NGE just kicks Shinji's shit around though to force him into conflict without so much as trying to understand him.
HOULWOOD It just seems like he puts his problems above the fate of the world most of the time, even when he DOES get in the mech. He's only doing it to make people like him. If he didn't think that would do it, he'd probably just refuse to get in it.
***** ep 19 was all about how he saves his friends despite of his depression. But you know, you have a point and that doesn't make it a bad show. He isn't someone you should idealize but he does ask you to have empathy.
HOULWOOD I don't have empathy for the person who in End of Evangelion decided to let the world end. I thought they had mentioned that Eva Unit 1 had beasically become god, and since Shinji was its pilot, couldn't he have made a decision to save the world? Shinji is not a person I would want in a survival situation. In any other situation, I would feel more sympathetic, but when it concerns the fate of the world, I'm more worried about the many than the few.
shinji did nothing wrong. He's being emotionally blackmailed by everyone around him to risk his life constantly for people and a world that doesn't give a shit about him.
+Robert Paulson honestly I hated shinji at first but then after I found out that this show was "based in reality" I figured out shinji is just a normal dude
100% agreed. His "wining" is understandable in the crappy situation he was forced into. The only time I felt he crossed the line into being "emo trash" is when he hesitated killing Kaurou (a guy who LITERALLY ASKED SHINJI TO KILL HIM), and even then, Kaurou is the only person who showed an interest in Shinji just because the Angel boy wanted to.
Sage, to Shinji's credit, he has nothing to fight for. he doesn't value life so much the way everyone else does. Why should he be expected to be so motivated?
Sadly I was Shinji for a for years of my life, being all mopey and shit was not good. The natural evolution of Shinji should have taken him to a place where he met someone who changed his view on the world without trying to change his view. Hell happened to me and if not for my mate I would still be a complete and utter Shinji, basically people like Shinji (aka myself for a long time) cannot be forced into thinking different we have to find our own way with some subtle input from those around us. Of course Shinji had the whole Angel and 3rd impact crap to worry over but still.
it's depressing that shinji is basically me, emotionally wrecked, overly introspective, sexually uncomfortable, shinji is sadly accurate in this generation
I can understand why so many people find Shinji ''obnoxious,'' but what I think a lot of people forget is that Evangelion is a coming-of-age story that focuses in part on self-esteem. The moral of the story is that we are all alike at the core of things, so in some way or another we were all just as whiny and insecure of a kid as Shinji was.
Depression does make you self absorbed, but the fact Shinji never even tries just... ugh. His 'resolution' was stupid and awful, depression doesn't go away from one little deep chat session. It can help, but you don't get instantly cured like that. Bleh.
Depends, seeing as at the end of the film he seems....off. and also he found a reality to escape to only to realize he was just running away. He chose to give life a shot and felt good about it
As a dude whose dealt with depression since Early childhood, depression isn't self absorbed, it's self afflicting. It makes you want punish yourself in a way, or stop caring about yourself. You stop bathing, you sleep more, you eat too little or too much. You lose purpose. You hurt you. I always hated Shining because he wasn't a simple of depression, but of bad teenage angst. He was punishing the world for how he felt, and he wasn't even going thru anything crippling. He was akward with sex and his father never spoke to him....so it's okay to let the world burn? Nah, if they wanted to make him interesting or a image of a depressed hero then have him do everything for the world he can, while suffering. Have him rising to the threat fighting it, then going into his room for days not eating much if anything and waiting for the next fight.
PookieDaExzile By Self Absorbed I mean being unable to see outside your own situation. It's not being selfish. It's part of the condition. What others may see as 'thoughtless' or 'selfish' behaviour is just you dealing with your brain chemistry, your empathy goes down. It's why I get angry when people say suicide is 'selfish' because depressed people are sometimes incapable of thinking that far ahead. This lines up with my own experience of depression. I think Shinji was depressed, he certainly hated himself. But the problem is that he never grows as a character. He's exactly as useless and self hating at the end as he was on day one, and the finale is just some half arsed 'talking it out makes it all better.' Tip: If simply talking and thinking was enough to cure depression, we wouldn't be depressed. I would have liked Shinji more if the creators explored his journey more, how he gradually finds more to live for right when the world is about to end. The little moments that make him think 'maybe living isn't so bad after all' or when someone does something for him and he thinks 'maybe I'm not so terrible.' I don't mind whiny depressed characters, Shinji is just particularly irritating because he never progresses.
Kai Sea id argue that the ending was more of a 'talking him off the ledge' thing. Depressed people get talked out of suicide and stay miserable. Also it was cleary him sharing everyones feelings and thoughts which gave him a perspective.......also its shinji.....the second he realized what he left he regretted it and wanted to try. Shinji is in a constant tug of war. Also hes something, depressed is not his core issue. He suffers from social and pyschological issues beyond that. The show didnt bring up the concept of the hedgehogs dilema for nothing
DeathgGod I think depression is in there tho. And yeah you can argue the last scene is effective in different ways, hell you can even love it, but my point is his issues are almost /never/ dealt with outside of people telling him to grow a backbone (which never helps.) We don't often see characters with mental illnesses, let alone protagonists, so I guess I'm just pissed off at the wasted opportunity.
Futurama was 1.2 million per episode? How the hell did they justify paying that? That's more then 10 times what Fox spends on animated series (or any other western animator for that mater). Where did you get that number? Because I'm 100% sure you're off by a factor of 10. And that's before one even has to ask why on half the budget of your typical western animation (120,000$/episode) still frames where the best they could do. I know anime tends to be more expensive (around 300,000$/episode) but that still begs several question. I mean sure, you could say "but they spent too much on earlier episodes", which only begs the question "then why didn't then plan their series better?" or "why didn't they end it an episode or two sooner?".
dave19941000 Well, if you actually watch Evangelion all the way through, the really well done animation of the EVAs is particularly ambitious, it's film quality animation. Unlike a traditional Mecha series that can reuse footage, a lot of EVAS most animated and striking scenes for very obvious reasons couldn't be reused. Sure they reused the "andromeda strain" episode footage, but I think Anno did that specifically to piss off critics who didn't like the episode. Much of End of Evangelion is "fan-tagonism". The opening scene is a criticism of fans who just masturbate over something that is near and dear to the heart of the creator Hideaki Anno. Shinji chokes Asuka, most likely as a symbolic act of the fans killing the series. If you really think there isn't anything to the "fan-tagonism", consider that the end montage utilized several letters from fans that included death threats. Anno has a complicated past with fans of Eva, and End of Evangelion was his way of giving a more visually stimulating version of the original ending, while also criticizing those who jerk off to 14 year old girls. Also, he had nothing to do with the shitty sound effects that were added. If you watch the commentary with the dub team, a lot of the show wasn't necessarily explained to them, and so to them they used humorous sound effects and stuff just for laughs. They loved the series, but never really expected that anyone would watch their dub or the show at all. I'll never understand why people watch dubs anyway, very few have the budget for good voice actors and it shows.
JUSTANUTTERPROD I don't see why you bring up the movie or the dub staff in all this, my comment was just about the fact that Fantasy Blade seemed to be implying that eva cost 6000$ per episode to make (an absurdly low number which never would have had the series greenlit if true, and seems more in line with how much it would have cost ADV to convert each episode) coupled with the claim that Futurama cost 1.2 million per episode (unlikely, but if true then it would be a "simpsons" situation where 90% of the budget would be in the voice actors).
dave19941000 I typed $60,000* Also, here is the source alfalfa.livedoor.biz/archives/50621035.html use translate and you can find it says that Evangelion is made with 6,250,000 yen and Futurama is made with 100,000,000 yen. Which after conversion is roughly US$60,000 for Eva and US$1mil for Futurama. Other sources supports this www.toonzone.net/forums/adult-swim-toonami-forum/81178-futuramas-budget.html#.U3Aw-_mSx8E
Fantasy Blade Does it take inflation into account? And even so, how much is for the animation budget, because Futurama seems to have a "Simpsons" situation where, again, 90% of the budget seems to be in the VA department.
Meh, I kinda think you swung and missed on te analysis of Shinji. His lack of any real character development in relation to his problem, constant urge to escape, and habit of disappearing into himself are more indicative of someone with a case of persistent depression than merely and angsty teenager. The "world in danger" thing is just a hyperactive version of the feeling that there is something you have to do, something which is really hard to deal with when depressed. Honestly, Shinji's psyche to me just screams "IM ANNO'S DEPRESSION, I'M ANNO'S DEPRESSION". He's not an unlikely hero, he's a broken kid who's trauma and mental issues render him incapable of actually developing and surpassing his issues. Kinda accurate in that way, mental issues don't go away because it would make a nice story ark.
Totally agree with you here ! having had experience with depression myself, i found a lot of what Sage was saying to line up with a lot of the characteristics of clinical depression. However, as i have not watched a lot of the show myself i felt a bit weird about leaving an comment, but if you have noticed the same thing, then it may be accurate.
The entire problem is that a story about depression and saving the world don't go well together. Both work well on their own, but when you try to mix then, one will take a backseat. Usually it is the personal problems in a situation like this. People will overcome their alcoholism, avolition or phobia, simply because they have to for the plot to progress. NGE did the opposite and it works even less.
Schwarzer Ritter It goes extremely well together when you concider the possibility that the show isn't literal. Not entirely sure what NERV is meant to represent, but the EVA mech is clearly meant to represent the peoples aid and support for Shinji and how even with all that, the issues, or "angels" you deal with can still seem near insurmountable. The thing with depression is that it's a fricking bitch to deal with. It's not an issue that you can just switch off and in the case where someone does manage to overcome it, it rarely or never stays off. For an individual there is no differense between saving the world and saving one self. Thus a lot of the things that trigger anxiety in people appear equally as large as a global apocalyptic event. Thus, for someone whom understands depression, it is not hard at all to see how saving the world and depression can work extremely well together. This show is trying to convay the emotions and thoughts of deep depression and a lot of people has no point of reference for that and it can be very hard to reach that portion of the audience. This is why I think it is best to see NGE as a painting rather than as an anime. It's not meant to be entertaining, it's meant to paint a mental state.
Caldera Unfortunately for you, NGE is not a painting. It's an anime. And it will be viewed and judged as such. And as an anime, a lot of elements do not go together and are executed less than poorly. Not only thtat, but I will fight anyone who claims that NGE is deep. It has symbolism, but it's not deep. It's actually face fucking you with the meanings. Asuka herself says "Does it feel good inside that EVA, Shinji? Does it feel like your mother's womb?". That is the opposite of deep. It's shallow.
Shinji IS realistically representative of someone with PTSD, anxiety, and depression. especially considering he's barely a teenager and the fate of the world is being forced into his hands while he has to fight in a giant robot by merging with the soul of his dead mother, all while his father is an abusive dickmunch to him. Anyone's thoughts would be constantly plagued by reassurance that they're worthless, but can't make any mistakes, that they're constantly in pain. And yet, through all of this, he finds room to be worried about the well-being of other people, who berate him for caring about anyone other than himself, and then for caring about himself at all. And then he kind of meets an angel who may or may not be in love with him and then he dies and Shinji basically has a huge breakdown, all leading up to that introspection episode(s), where he needs to finally learn to accept his own value not just as a tool, but as a person. it's something very important for mentally ill people - especially people growing up in an age of increasing pressure to perform 100% perfect in education and life, because not only is the previous generation living vicariously through them, but also financially depend on them for retirement and school funding from test scores and such - to see, and to see him live with and overcome in a way that doesn't glorify, reduce, or mock. when people say he's a whiny, obnoxious asshole for crying and panicking during the situation that quickly becomes his entire life, they're basically saying that real people aren't good, aren't likeable, and that realistic reactions don't have as much of a place in popular representation as the unreasonably logical approach of knowing exactly what one needs to do and how to act. You said it yourself. it's his own psychosis against the world. Key term Psychosis. it's not something that people are often able to recognize - or if they do, not something that they can stop. The fact that we're seeing the contrast of personal killswitches - something that can shut down someone's own world, i.e. their own self and life - against the outside world is a fascinating way to induce meaningful frustration in the audience. Because it's true, and we can relate. As people, we tend to view ourselves with as much importance as the entirety of existence, not because we're selfish, but because that's literally all existence is to us. when our self is being destroyed, not by death, but by our own minds falling apart due to forces we can't control, there's usually nothing we can do on our own to fix it our bring ourselves back. And when the world is being destroyed by outside forces that they can't control - the angels - the struggle to sacrifice what little we have left tethering ourselves to all of existence - our bodily health, our loved ones, and our use as a cog in society - seems nearly impossible to overcome. for many, they never do, and it's not because they're selfish or not trying. That's why the world becomes a hollow, desolate chamber with only the figures and voices of characters at the end. Because of the extended plot, fan interaction, and insane amount of creative freedom the creators gained as time went on, the overall story became a metaphor for the personal story. when you're at the end of your rope, all you have are memories, analyses of the people you once knew, and who you think yourself to be. All you have is the conversations you can hold with yourself, and to be able to pull yourself out of that and save yourself - again, the world - is a truly monumental achievement. Congratulations.
Dear everyone: CUT SHINJI SOME FUCKING SLACK. As bad as his child hood was its surprising he actually grew up as good as he did. He is a Child Not an adult. Barely even finished with puberty. Its ironic because characters like Alex DeLarge from a Clockwork Orange who are the same age get tons of slack from people but Shinji who isn't intentional harmful (most of the time) people act like he is the anti Christ.
17:15 that's...not how animation works. we're basically seeing a still image that was animated once. You don't have to reanimate it for every frame, you just reuse the same animation. And even then, separate things are animated separately and put together. So for example when Asuka hiccups or adjusts or whatever, they only needed to animate her, and they reused the same animation of Rei and the background. In fact the reason that shot exists is kinda the exact opposite of what you're saying. They were out of time and budget and stretched practically a single animation to last a minute. Instead of wasting tons of time and effort it actually saved it. And i think it did a pretty good job of characterizing the two and their relationship, especially in the full context of the scene. Similarly, shots like 18:50 require the animation of only two still images. A background, and the object in the foreground. The object is laid over the background and images are taken while moving the animations up a bit each frame to create a panning effect, or now it's just done digitally, not sure with NGE. But the bottom line is they don't redraw the drawing every single frame within just the confines of the frame we see.
Even though I know Evangelion is a flawed show, I found the reason I love the series is because of the awesome mech fights, complete mind-fuckery, and Shinji himself. I don't try to look deep into the show like everyone says you should, I just turn my brain off during it except when something that is required to think about how messed up it is. And with Shinji, yes he's an annoying, broken kid. But seriously people, would you be a courageous badass if you had to get in a mech that connects pain receivers from the mech to you? On top of fighting against the biggest threat to Earth, while balancing your crumbling state of mind as well?
I think a lot of you are really limiting yourself saying you're not going to watch Eva because of Sage's opinion. You should find out what you think about Eva yourself, and whether you love it or hate it then. I personally love it, and i get others may hate it, but if you haven't even watched it just because of someone else's view then you'll never know.
Finally see Evangelion. Return to see the Anime Abandon episode for it. Them downvotes. I have a feeling that Sage and I agree on this one like we did Grave of the Fireflies. Alrighty then. Play...
As a person who recently watched the series and movie, I have to say I enjoyed it. Granted, I agree with almost every point here, but hey, what are you gonna do. And to be fair, that extended seen with Kaoru and Shinji does have some mood sense.
Shinji has been discussed ad nauseam; I will only say this: to think of him as simply an 'obnoxious emo boy' is like thinking of Cowboy Bebop's Spike as a 'coward who can't let go of his past'. It's true in a way that is completely false; and if you can't see this, if you think that empathy is deserved only by heroes who were overcome by circumstances beyond their control after they do their very best... then there's something about humans that eludes you... Being self-absorbed doesn't mean you're not human; hell, most humans I've seen on the internet (including, frankly, you) look a lot more self-absorbed than they should be. That does not make them any less human (or, in your case, make your opinions any less interesting), and interesting in their very flaws.
urbanmyths95 So did I. And he did, in the very end. But the series wasn't out to reward our desire to see the hero win -- it was out to show how hard this path actually is. It's not just a question of Kamina slapping Simon and saying "have you snapped out of it yet"? It's harder than that, harder than fighting with a giant robot, That Shinji managed to do it at the end is perhaps the most unbelievable aspect of the show.
urbanmyths95 I know. It would have been more comforting. We would have felt better about ourselves. But Anno wanted more realism than that... and in reality, as the song goes, not all dreams come true. And this battle is not so much organic as it is terribly, terribly painful.
***** I don't think it was that simple. Shinji also craved human contact. He wanted to be liked. He also cared about his friends, and wanted to be able to help them. Not being able to do either was hard on him (remember him with the pillow on his head, so as not to hear Misato's sobs after Kaji died?)
8:10 See. That's way easier said than actually done. And to shinji's credit, he does actually kill angels. Even became arrogant and more confident in episode 16
i find this review weird, how can sage miss the fact that the message is fight suicide and depression, of course he s obnoxious and a loser, he is suffering of depression, the ending of evangelion is he choosing between death and life, the end of his world and complete escapism, or keep living, "save the world", the congratulation scene is he choosing to live, to not commit suicide, evangellion is not meant to be pleasant, it is """art"""" because it isn't screaming it's real message, the plot isn't the goal, it is the experience and message, a normal person don't feel related to shinji, because he is meant to be reliable to people with depression, the scene where it shows the audience is a message that anyone can be like shinji, someone who thinks the world would be better without them
I have real, severe, been-hospitalized-twice-because-of-suicidal-ideations, self harm causing depression and I fucking hate Shinji. I don't relate to him at all because even though I don't have the date of the fucking world at my fingertips I still have unwanted responsibilities placed on my shoulders that I either deal with or go homeless and lose people I care about. He's a whiny, selfish baby that can't get his shit together even when he has people helping him and the lives of millions in his hands.
@@zz7073 And I, along with 99% of the world's population will never have to. That just completely eviscerates any argument to Shinji's relatability. Thanks for helping me prove OP wrong.
I HIGHLY disagree with your opinion of Asuka. I don't like her personality, either, but she is in the end, a sympathetic character. You see, if you had watched the 26 episode series, you would know that Asuka's mother refused to acknowledge her as her daughter, and would talk to a doll as if IT were Asuka. This was due to contact with an angel, as the series explains, true enough. However, imagine being a kid her age, and witnessing your mother's suicide, and imagine that doll as someone who was so much better than you, not even your own MOTHER ACKNOWLEDGED YOUR EXISTENCE. THAT ALONE will deal some heavy psychological damage, as Asuka goes on to complete her EVA training, and becomes an EVA pilot. The EVA is the only thing that gives her any sort of self-respect, and when she starts losing to Shinji, she feels, unjustifiably, that everyone at NERV is ignoring her. She starts slipping down a very dark path, and eventually goes suicidal, nearly. This explains every bit of her annoying personality, as bad as she may be. She has very legitimate reasons for being the way she is. Her ego stems from her having very little self-esteem in the first place, which is why she is so self-absorbed.
Exactly. At her core, she suffers from basically the same problems as Shinji, but attempts to cope (and eventually fails) in the completely opposite way.
I love NGE but I do have some problems with it and I understand that it's not for everyone. But it's annoying how nearly everyone who hates it just says,"Shinji is annoying" and,"it has a bad ending"
Finally, A NGE Fan Who Doesn't Get So Defensive About People Not Liking It. Im Not Personally A Fan But I Realize The Anime Has A Lot Of Good Stuff To It and I can even look past the ending. However, I Find All The Characters ( Except Rei) To Be Incredibly Unlikable
Shinji was only a small, albeit important part of Evangelion's flaws. Its pretentious, boring second half. It was literally (I'm not kidding here) impossible to understand the anime by just paying attention and rewatching it, you had to go out and play the ambiguously canon video game and read the encyclopedias and all of that shit. An ending worse than Mass Effect 3's ending, offering no closure, tying up exactly zero loose ends (and boy were there many), never answering the important questions (What were the Evas, Clones of Angels or Artificial Human-Angel hybrids? What was Seele exactly? What are the Dead Sea Scrolls? Is Rei a clone of Yui, Lilith or both? If an Angel contacting Adam would result in Third Impact, then why doesn't a human contacting Lilith engineer Third Impact? Why doesn't Gendo contacting Adam (literally fusing him into his body) not initiate Third Impact? What was the Angel's goal? Were the Angels working together? What was Kaworu? Why was he subservient to Seele if he's an Angel? Who's souls do the MP Evas have? I could go on FOREVER like this)
SuperTechmarine The problem is that you're trying to read into it as you would a ordinary mech anime. The way I see it, the plot and practically everything in the franchise is mere backdrop to the main theme of the anime. Depression and anxiety. In other words, you're trying to make sense of something that is inherently nonsensical, exactly like depression and anxiety. You're not really supposed to like Shinji, he's the main character and the protagonist, but even at best you can only identify with him. The issue here is that Shinji has a completely broken personality. He has no self esteem, or respect. Unless you've experienced anything like that, you're not supposed to like, or identify with him. What you're supposed to do then is to see what it is like. You're supposed to recognise how a person cannot simply just pick themselves up from such a state and function normally. You need a group of people to help and guide you to rebuild your self image. NGE takes this struggle through religion, which many desperate people do turn to. But depression isn't something you can fight off easily, you can get a lot of support and tools from the people around you, but in the end, you're alone battling your inner demons and it's up to you to emerge victorious. When Shinji is fighting the Angels, what is actually happening is that he is fighting against his inner demons donned in the suit of his religion. Thus what actually happens is practically inconcequencial, everyones battles are unique and it is extremely rare for these battles to be sensical, or reasonable. This is why a statement such as "get over it" is honestly kind of enfuriating.
Caldera Which was stupid on Anno's part because the Angels, Evas and the whole setting were a thousand times more interesting than the characters and their issues. Had he made some halfway likable characters and then broke them I might like the anime more.
SuperTechmarine Again, the characters and the plot is irrelevant. What is important is the mental state, at least in my opinion. The entire point is that you're not supposed to like Shinji. You really aren't.
+HisHolyMajesty The amount of fans of this show who just don't think we get it is staggering! Since when is having an opinion a prerequisite for incompetence? And while I'm at it, since when does being "deep" excuse crap writing and direction? (personal opinion, obviously)
***** Personally, I'll just skip all the pretentious religious crap and the pseudo-Batman stuff and just watch Sekirei again. That or Skeleton Warriors.
Cool The question you and I should be asking is: why would we watch that? It's certainly not uplifting, and it's not high-octane cheesy enough to be wish-fulfulliment, and it's certainly not intelligent enough to play with any big ideas. So sell me the show. Tell me why it's worth my time to watch it.
So I watched this review before I started watching the show. And I too thought Shinji was a lame protagonist. But now that I've seen the show, Shinji is one of the most realistic protagonist I've seen in an anime. Like, his introversion makes so much sense considering his lack of confidence. His neglectful father. Having to fight deadly unpredictable angels. The kid is mentally stressed out and it's completely reasonable.
Not true, I neither love nor hate it. (though then again I like to both make fun of people who act like it's the second coming while also making jokes about it being '2deep5u")
Evanglion in a nutshell: Detestable, hollow characters with NO redeeming qualities. Religious symbolism that means NOTHING! Pretentious self-serving nonsense that spins its wheels. In other words, a show about monsters and giant robots that pissed it's promise right down it's leg.
This is amongst early TH-cam videos that have aged poorly, not entirely because of the content of the video, but because the creator changed his opinion on the material he was covering.
@@videogamesworld01 You’re right and if anything it’s refreshing to see someone on the internet re-evaluate their takes rather than double down and be an asshole about it.
EVA/NGE was the FF7 of anime. It didn't matter what anyone actually thought about either, because in the end, you either fell in love with it, actively avoided/ignored it, or you grew to despise it and/or its infinitely outspoken fanbase. I avoided it, and still haven't seen it; though I'm quite familiar with a number of its many, many, MANY derivative (sorry, "inspired") works.
It's strange to me to see so many people defending Shinji being whiney, selfish and uncaring about anyone else because "he's depressed." Depression doesn't make you a selfish crybaby that doesn't care about other people's lives. How many people have you heard of that killed themselves and the reaction was "But they didn't seem depressed! They seemed so happy and fun loving!" Shinji didn't need to be portrayed as an annoying little shit to be depressed. If he's an annoying, whiny selfish little turd, it's not depression that made him that way.
"_Evangelion_ started as a monster-of-the-day show..." If you actually believe this, you did not even pay attention to the anime. There are scenes in the _very first episode_ which show that almost all of the show was planned out beforehand: the distant shot of a ghostly Rei, a broken power transformer falling into the water, and the way Misato and Shinji interact.
I personally think he understands it well. The point he tried to make was that NGE started pretty usual compared to it's later half. But that's the point. It shows how this responsibilty can destroy a person, especially an insecure teenager.
I just want everyone to realize something. You can fact understand all of the plot, symbolism, and references in Evangelion...and still want to beat the writers with a brick for makeing this piece of garbage. In short...YES I FUCKING UNDERSTAND THE SHOW AND YES I STILL HATE IT!
Cool It's an emo's ultimate wet dream. Like Sage said, the fate of the world and all of mankind is at stake. But all of that MUST be put on hold, all so Shinji can have the biggest pity party in Anime. How is that not escapism? How many whiney little emo's wish that the whole world just had to stop just so they cry about how bad they have it? Now kid, if you want to talk to me about Anime that are less about escapism and more for gritty realism I'm all for it. Look at titles like Bepop, Gangsta, FMA, Attack on Titan, Berserk, Big O, Akame Ga Kill, Grave of Fireflies, GTO, Terra Formars, Akira, And probably the best one that I can think of off the top of my head, Trigun. In fact lets compare. On one hand you have Vash. A guy who has arguably been through more shit then any other main character in Anime. He is constantly: Being Chased Being ostracized Being blamed for things he didn't do Has an insane murderous brother determined to destroy everything he stands for Being maimed (just look at his body) Losing people he loves And must constantly bare witness death, destruction, and inhumanity. But what does he do despite all of that? He acts like a fucking hero. He: Tries to save everyone Maintains a pacifists mindset Puts everyone else's needs before his own Tries to cheer everyone up. Finds the good in a harsh world. Doesn't kill. And actually deals with his problems instead of laying it on his entire supporting cast and whining about it like a bitch. It's realism is in its message. That no matter how bad the world may get, you don't need to mirror it. And that message is hammered home by how there is no magic button to fix the issues Vash must deal with. There is no easy answer but he always tries to find a way. And the other hand you have Shinji. Everyone: Shinji the angels are attacking Shinji: But my daddy doesn't love me! E: Shinji your friends are dying S: But my daddy doesn't love me!!!! E: Shinji the whole world's gonna end. S: BUT MY DADDY DOESN'T LOVE ME!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!! Now as shitty of a character Shinji is it would be realistic for a whiney teen to act like that.......IF THE FATE OF HUMANITY WASN'T AT STAKE!!!!!! Do you get my point yet? I think you need keep your two cents in your pocket for right now, go to Justdubs and actually watch some good Anime. That way you can get more perspective on how a good Anime tackles realism. In other words. You merely adopted anime. I was born into it, molded by it. I didn't watch the news until I was already a man, and by then it was mundane.
stoneman472 After episode 9 shinji doesnt run away aside from in the middle of the fight where Toji was in the Eva. Hell at the end of the series he be head Kaworu. Unless you mean EoE happened a few hours after he killed Kaworu, (the last person he thought gave a shit about him) seeing as he already had depression for a large portion of his life, at that point he's past suicidal. A good example of an emo escapism character is Kirito from SAO. Also Attack on Titan was a terrible example of a realistic gritty anime. *insert clip here of people yelling because someone dropped a pencil* Also I've seen most of those and no I will not support piracy.
I think that the entire conceit that Shinji’s introspective and hesitant nature is taking a back seat to the overall plot of the show to be misguided on three fronts: One, being the most obvious is the implication that the giant fighting robots were even the main focus of the show to begin with. Barring the handful of episodes (I’d say like, 4 or 5 at most) that are pretty much semi-standard Angel of the Week fare, the show is pretty much focused on introspection on pretty much the whole cast, not just Shinji. We get plenty of episodes dedicated to fleshing our different characters and their own introspective musings, like Misato, Ritsuko, Kaji, Asuka, Gendo, Toji, etc. And even granting your complaint about the overall story taking a backseat to Shinji’s own psychoses, upon rewatching it recently it’s very much not as tedious and prevalent as you seem to make it out to be. Maybe it’s just because of the movie, idk what the process behind this video was, and I’m not gonna presume to. However this does lead nicely into- Second, I’ve always been confused by the complaint that Shinji is a cowardly brat who has to be cajoled into getting in the robot for every Angel fight, he’s really only like that for the first 4 episodes, and by the time he does get to a point where he starts being hesitant about piloting the EVA it’s much later in the series, and after the knowledge that he unwillingly almost murdered one of his only friends. Shinji is honestly perfectly reasonable until the endgame of the series when literally All The Bad Things happen to him at once, leaving him a broken traumatized shell of a person And finally, and this is partially just due to a fundamental difference in opinion and perspective, when all is said and done, what /is/ so bad about this? Sure, from the standpoint of someone who isn’t, or has forgotten a point when they were an emotionally vulnerable teenager, Shinji’s more cowardly tendencies seem unreasonable, when set against the stakes of The End of the World. However, speaking as someone who remembers what that was like, the apocalyptic stakes that are at hand here would probably make me /more/ paralyzed. And that’s not even getting to mention all the shit that happens to him from episodes 16-24 that, again, I think would lead any kid that age into the catatonic, suicidal wreck of a human being that you see in End of Evangelion. The whole idea of emotional introspection placed in the backdrop of an apocalyptic scenario works like chocolate and peanut butter, because to the depressed teenager, or 20-something, or whatever watching this, it works as a fitting demonstration of retreating from the world falling apart around you, only to find the place you escaped to is just as harmful. I’ve left some dumb comments on the End of Eva video, that I may have posted in a bit of a blind rage, and I apologize because it just makes me seem like an asshole, but as much as I respect your general work, I find myself coming to disagreements like this in your analyses (is that the plural for analysis? idk) very frequently, and I realize that posting yet another overly long essay yelling at you for Not Liking a thing on a video that’s, at most, half a decade old is really embarrassing but like Idk, nothing personal to anyone, I just care a lot about this stuff, yknow?
I think Shinji seems like such an unlikeable main character because he is an unlikely hero. So many anime have OP main characters (Asterisk War) that Shinji is a realistic MC.
+Matthew Cool "...and if I'm not enjoying something then we have a problem." lol ok dude, relax. No need for an elaborate speech. If you didn't like it, you didn't like it.
I admit, as much as EVA has problems (And I admit, it has a tonne of problems), I still like it. Granted, I've only properly watched the Rebuild movies, which from what I've seen make a whole lot more sense and are much easier to watch, but I dunno, I just enjoy it.
I think to like Evangelion you must have gone through great psychological isolation and then develop great empathy because of it. I can't even think of Asuka without crying. The pain that child experienced is insurmountable. I guess you must have an extremely sensitive heart to love show or else it would just pass off as sheer pretentiousness.
I have went through a lot of psychological isolation in my childhood and pre teens, but I feal like Shinji is still a more reasonable person than Aauka. The way she treats everyone like shit because of her past is not a way a person should vent. I have no sympathy for real life people like her, let alone a fictional character that I'm supposed to be interested in.
@@rafaelyc2639 I honestly forgot that I made my comment, but I still stand by everything I said. I don't like people who use the people around them as punching bags so they could feel better. That is why I don't like Asuka, because I have encountered a lot of people like her in my life, and while I did feel sympathy for them, I couldn't stand how they treated other people.
@@lordquaz7154 well sorry for digging up that old comment and I respect your thought is that for liking that character they threatened and harassed me, and I still have that resentment I mean, first they bothered me because I liked undeveloped characters and then they threatened me for liking developed characters? it's that they make you want to crash an eva poster in their faces (not you) just like calarmardo crashed the pizza to that fish that rejected spongebob's order Sorry for the long comment I wanted to vent in this comment
+TheMegaUzumaki Ah, the other traitors have been consumed by cleansing fire. You are to be commended for that. Still, bring me the willing tool's head...and use whatever means at your disposal to incinerate the remains of that disgusting Xeno hybrid. The technology of the Alien can only ever be used for ill.
***** here's the thing Simon cleaned up his mess and stopped it in time. Shinji panicked and cried too long and when he did try he made things worse by destroying the world and not uniting humanity into a single existence fucking everyone's shit
***** so shinji being the little bitch of his father and others is so much better? Listen dude i like Evangelion i really do but i prefer Gurren lagann because it set up character Development and followed through with it. I keep expecting Shinji's balls to drop and pull the gainax pose in the hand of either unit 01 or 13 (i wouldn't mind it coming back) but it never happens and i get so frustrated i honestly wish asuka was the main character sometimes and shinji is what keeps Evangelion below Gurren lagann for me. Its just my opinion sorry. If you like Eva more then gurren more power to you
So.... what's everyone's favorite Angel? I always liked the fifth angel. The Rubik's Cube of death! THE BITCH-MAKER OF MOUNTAINS!!! RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEL!!!!!!!!! Also, the music is awesome!
Jayfive276 Does Zeruel have a motherfucking choral singing with him wherever he goes? is he so scary he doesn't even have a face? Does his ray make the loudest fucking noise ever? Does he change shape in the air and look like a badass alien gun? Did he ever blow a MOTHERFUCKING MOUNTAIN RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU?
***** No, he was too busy getting right in NERV HQ and almost getting the job done. Whereas Rami-chan spent a couple of days pushing his pink pointed wang through the ground XD
BennettTheSage, have you seen Devilman or Devilman Lady? I saw your review of New Cutey Honey, and remembered, Go Nagai wrote and produced both the Manga as well as the Anime series' of Devilman, Devilman Lady, and the movies, such as Amon: Apocalypse of Devilman. i think you could have fun reviewing those.
People who complain about the uninterrupted long shots miss the point entirely. It’s not a budget thing it’s an artistic choice, the director is confronting you with tension that you literally get no relief from, you are forced into something you cannot look away from like the characters are. This is especially true with shinji killing kaworu. This is the exact moment that breaks shinji entirely its a moment that lasts for a lifetime to him and you are forced to soak in every second just like he is. I honestly think the reason people don’t have the patience for this kind of thing is because they haven’t explored non American films. American editing since the days of DW Griffith has always been kinetic and fast for the most part. European and Japanese directors however have long used uninterrupted takes for various reasons (eg Kurosawa and especially Ozu love to linger on long shots to emphasize a specific tone/emotion) in American films action dictates emotion however in many non American film emotion is extenuated by stillness
Asuka's mother didn't go insane because she encountered an angel. She went insane because the maternal component of her soul became infused with the core of Unit 2.
You actually brought up a point that always rubbed me raw in the series: I always wanted someone to just turn to Asuka, call her on her shit, make her realize she's full of it, then have her shown in the light of someone getting over their shit instead of wallowing in it. It would've made me like the series more. I mean, I can understand it can be hard to write a tragedy, but if you write a tragedy where the people who die are infuriatingly narcissistic and/or annoying, is it really a tragedy? It's the same as with Shinji: she's being just as self-indulgent when *the world is going down in flames* instead of actually feeling the pressure of death like the oncoming train it is. It's like the series tries to cope with issues of mortality and fear of death without understanding how different people with different mindsets and psychological makeups cope with them. Sometimes it seems to hit a little seed of truth, but then it gets buried as soon as one of the main three opens their gob (well, Rei not as much, but she doesn't talk much in general anyway). You also gave me elevator scene flashbacks. I stopped watching the show because of that scene the first time I saw it; it took me a few years to go back to it because I was curious about how the anime ended. I regretted going back, but it did teach me an important lesson about listening to myself when my mind says 'do not continue watching, nothing entertaining awaits you'.
how dare you my good sir! that crushing scene with bethoven (and the amount of time that it took) was one of the most epic scenes I ever saw.... just the tension that he need to do it vs he want to do it was priceless.. and the time it took is what make so marvelous... just to imagine the struggle he was passing trough as he try to put himself together to kill a friend (and not to mention the struggle to execute him in cold blood as this is not a fighting scene) was epic. second that scenes on the elevator was about tension in the air (common... did you never fight your girlfriend to the point you both stop speaking but still had to divide the place together? like you want to say something but you to piss (or to proud) to be the first to talk?) and to be fair the great problem they had with the evas is that synchronization shit.. like if they had a inner struggle they can't operate well or don't operate at all a eva... and as a teenagers they had a lot of shit to resolve (that's why their characters became so important on the show I think)... like as shinji begins to put his shit together he became a better pilot and asuka begins to lose it as her proud cannot withstand not being 1. the best, 2 the center of attention, 3 a pilot (even ending with her suppose suicide).... but i'm bias as I love evangelion (as evangelion bring me to begin to study philosophy and sociology as a kid) please.. Can't wait to see you do something about Gundams...
Also it doesn’t fucking matter. The whole theme of eva is depression and the original endings point was everyone overcoming depression. I 100% would not be surprised at people overcoming depression after seeing this show. We don’t get enough shows with this message, especially now
Honestly I had been avoiding this anime for the past like... 10 years because I heard it was so full of itself. And now that I finished the series on Netflix including End of. I must say... 3/5. Like I can see why it’s a classic. But I went through it just honestly expecting more. And I just got... strange symbolism and Shinji. I must say his redub makes him a whole lot more tolerable but he’s still... well not a good character. If the point was to not like him then they won. Asuka was mad annoying throughout the whole thing but by the end of it I understood it. She’s lived a terrible life and just wanted to be praised and be with people who would ultimately care for her. And then got screwed over nearly the worst. I mean the poor girl was eaten alive. I actually felt bad watching that scene. Rei is eh... Misato I would say is NGE’s best character as she’s the most proactive throughout it. She wants the truth and hell she rather nuke herself and her friends rather then start the third impact(which I didn’t see why it wasn’t an option after Asuka died fighting those faux Eva/Angels.) Also am I the only won that felt Shinji was secretly (not making fun of him) gay. Like Kaworu was like the only person in the whole show to just connect and bond with Shinji. To the point that Shinji was nearly about to let humanity die so Kaworu could live on. Honestly thinking of him as a closet homosexual kinda made him a ton more tolerable to me. Anyway the fights are great. Setting is intriguing. But the characters are just... eh. 3/5
IMO that is a very generous rating and a fair view of the show. I heard about Eva for decades, finally sitting down to watch it through this year. I was so incredibly disappointed, and more often than not, just plain bored. It felt like such a chore to watch, it was tempting to just fast forward through a lot of it. I was honestly just absolutely shocked. After trudging through the first 12 episodes or so I kept thinking it would get better but it never did. I just sat there, thinking to myself "SERIOUSLY? This?? This is what everyone was losing their minds over? What is so good about it?" I never did find an answer. I think the characters are interesting (the 3 main pilots are children so I actually don't hold their "annoying" attributes against them), but the focus on their individual psychology is entirely divorced from the premise, and the themes have nothing to do with anything. It's as if someone read a few philosophy books and thought it would be fun to clumsily shoehorn those concepts into the story, despite the fact that it has no connection to the story or its world. The premise is incredibly interesting. The execution is not. It's like the show doesn't know what it wants to be, and it shows in the tone of every episode constantly shifting and the focus going back to immature school-focused kiddish nonsense, then back to grandiose end of the world alien vs robot fighting for the planet scenes. Tonally, and story-wise, it is all over the place and never once engaging or interesting, except for a few glimpses into the characters' backstories.
I originally saw Evangelion over a decade ago. In the end, I hated the series, and I couldn't figure out what the deal was. This past week, I finished a series run-through on Netflix, and I've come to four conclusions: 1. I like Evangelion as whole 2. I don't have a problem with Shinji 3. Asuka, SHUT UP!!! 4. It's End of Evangelion that I hate I get that's the result of Anno's mental breakdown and death threats (fuck you, "fans"), but really, it's just way too mean-spirited a way to end the series. And yet, I can't imagine it ending any other way.
A final thought: it is indeed correct to say that Shinji should consider the danger to the world as more important than his own internal conflict, in a Prime Directive sort of way ('the needs of the many outweight the needs of the few', including yours, Shinji!). But that has all the problems implicit in any Prime Directive (reality ain't that simple), plus the fact that Shinji, as a human being, thinks of himself first. How many people do you know who would run away from such a responsibility (including, perhaps, yourself) if it hurt them as much as it does Shinji? We don't think of these people as heroes... but they are human. Their motivations are ultimately not different from those of heroes; in both cases, it's not logics that moves them (heroes often do stupid things too), it's... something else. In Shinji's case, obviously not simply self-preservation. Of course, you're free to dislike these people, and to prefer 'true heroes' in your animēs. Everybody is entitled to the kind of entertainment they like. But again, do not think that those who find Shinji interesting and deep (and full of little insights into why humans do the crazy things they do) are wrong. They aren't. They're just looking at something else, finding their entertainment somewhere else in the show.
Or, if you grew up loving mecha, you'd run full speed to get into that cockpit! I have no idea if I'd be able to recreate the entire world, but I'd sure as hell pilot EVA 1 with gusto
Hmmm... You'd have to have your mother's soul implanted in EVA 1 before that could happen. After all, that is basically the reason why Shinji is able to pilot EVA 1. If that were not the case, then the whole animē would never have happened... (Just imagine what NGE would be like with only Asuka and Rei, but no Shinji. Brr...)
The problem with your statement...is that the entire show works on the principle people with psychological trouble never get psychological treatment despite working for an organization with more funds than some entire fucking nations. Having such attentions for people having the fucking fate of mankind in their shoulders shouldn't be a luxury, so even if it's humanly comprehensible it runs on idiot plot. And there are more interesting, ACTUALLY DEEP(AKA not just venting the creators clinical depression in a cynical way) yet still likable characters in other anime. Evangelion fucked up because even taking that in count there are STILL problems in the narrative and the massive little detail I mentioned above.
VladNorris If you want to be "realistic", the very idea of fighting inside giant mechas against aliens bent on destroying us is also "idiotic plot" in the sense that this will never happen in reality. If you can accept this "idiotic" premise as somehow non-idiotic... then it doesn't seem so hard to accept the premise of no psychological treatment for the poor EVA children either -- of course, not something any modern institution would do (the army has shrinks, schools have shrinks, the church has shrinks, everybody has shrinks these days) -- but if you're willing to swallow that, then the story becomes quite realistic: how would a depressed child react under these circumstances? I think, just as Shinji did. Now, if there being no pscyhological help for the EVA children is enough to ruin the plot for you ... so be it. Some of my friends think giant robots are enough to ruin any plot, and that's OK -- they watch other kinds of shows. I will only point out that I was talking about Shinji, not about how the other characters (including NERV) handled Shinji and the other children. What I said in my post, I believe, remains true, regardless of NERV's idiotic lack of psychological help for the EVA children. You imply Shinji is not ACTUALLY DEEP IN ALL CAPS. I think you're wrong: Shinji is quite deep, quite layered, and quite well-written. If you know better characters in the sense of characters with more layers, more depth, more realism, or better written, please let me know -- but don't confuse that with characters that YOU LIKE BETTER. That's a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THING IN ALL CAPS. As for plot holes and problems in the narrative -- well, that's true: there are such problems. They're mostly rather minor (with a couple of exceptions) but yes, they're there. To me, that's not so important, because after all the whole premise of why the angels were attacking the earth is sufficiently "strange" to end up being just a metaphor. I don't think the angel-and-tech plot was really important to the authors (not in the sense that it was, say, in Legend of the Galactic Heroes, or even in Gundam). It was always more about how children react under stressful circumstances with no help or support, especially if they already have issues to begin with. And that's fine. Too many series simply assume that 14-year-olds will suddenly become heroes just because they have to. EVA was the one show that made it clear that that's not how 14-year-olds react; that's not how they are.
Watching this one again AFTER the 2-part review of the Re:Build Tetralogy of NGE movies hits a little differently, now knowing what Hidekei Anno was really like, and what went on within GAINAX at the time. It's still funny and insightful, though. Except Bennett calling Asuka the C-word; that part aged like milk left in the Sun. He could have just easily called her a bitch.
One curious thing about Evangelion (one that you didn't mention, and I wonder what you'd make of it) is that everybody, even its greatest fans, always finds something bad in it. And this going beyond merely admitting that there are some defects in what you like (all animēs are imperfect, everything always has some little boo-boo in it, etc.); it's something way more visceral than that. And that is one exceptional thing about Evangelion: even when you love it, there's something holding you back because it would be... wrong. The show doesn't want you to love it, because it knows it would be... wrong. And that is a funny feeling that no other animē has ever given me.
When did is become cool to say evangelion is bad? There's literally a single person I've ever met that can say they hate it besides edgy kids who want to have a conflicting opinion. Even people I know who don't like anime enjoyed evangelion.
the weird thing is - all of Anno's works are like that? Like, they start out excellent with a setup and nuanced characters and might go somewhere.... and then halfway thru he just goes "fuck it!"
No. Take a look at his first work, GunBuster. You'll see as heart and spirit and love for teh mecha genre only matched by a distant descendant in Gurren Lagann. Anno's work here is so different because he was depressed and people sent him death threats, which is why Rebuild of Evangelion is better since he at least had half of his mind while making that.
I suppose it's worth stating that Sage doesn't make the point that these characters are bad. Instead he hates them. That's a big difference. When you view the characters as children and do away with the trope of 'coming of age' (which is bullshit in reality) I can understand why people like this and say it's more 'real'. Nobody 'comes of age'. For the most part they stay relatively the same. I also find it amusing that a viewer can hate these children so much yet they're the ones saving the world. So if you were in this universe you'd still hate them...even though they're saving your life? Sage made the observation that the anime focuses more on the characters rather than the setting but he ironically does the same thing. Don't get me wrong. Nothing Sage said was incorrect at all, but I find myself in the position of understanding both points of view. I believe it has more to do with an individual's expectations than anything else. Just in case anyone's wondering I'm not a fan, but I didn't hate it either.
Isn't that kinda like saying that you can't hate the horrible characters Rob Liefeld made, because they are super heroes and are technically superheroes? Characters can still be despicable people or horrendiousnly annoying, even if they do good deeds. Hell. what if we wrote a story where Hitler saves earth from aliens by shooting himself in the bunker while Berlin is under attack. Should we then don't hate him in that story? But more to the point, these are fictional characters written for entertainment. And as such you can dislike them just fine even if they are good guys. Edward in Twilight might technically be a "good" vampire who supposedly does good deeds, but that doesn't mean i can't hate him. Besides if the characters are neither likeable or entertaining, then people have nothing to grab unto, and as such delving into their weird psychological problems is a bore. Because we care nothing for them. Well if the majority of the anime focuses on character and not setting. Then it would follow that a review of the anime would also focus on characters and not setting. Why spend a huge amount of explaining stuff that not important to the story that the writer is trying to focus on. Its a personal journey kinda piece, where the plot takes back seat to the characters. Which is way i personally started losing interest in the anime around the halfway point.
3 things: first, a lot of screen time of the actual series was devoted to the angel battles, and the fact that you base your critique of the series on the "previously seen on" movie's lack of action is frankly misleading. second, you're certainly not alone in being someone for whom the series was ruined thanks to obnoxious, dysfunctional heroes and heroines- however, when you take your prescriptive approach to "what good entertainment/anime should be" and use that to describe Evangelion as being terrible because of it (I don't care whether you said it or not, someone who's never seen the series would certainly read "terrible" from your review) you honestly present yourself as short-sighted. I was always told that those moments where the camera lingered over silence and lack of movement was at once deliberate and necessary because the show's budget had been slashed to nothing, and with deadlines approaching the crew got, how do you say... creative. The idea that a show that was originally going to be a run-of-the-mill mecha anime, albeit visually impressive, and the show's creators decided to turn the anime into something totally unique seems to have offended you. This is anime as art-for-arts-sake, and not further gratification for fanboys, with whom Anno had become disturbed. In the objectification and hentai-violation of anime characters, Anno was not the only director who had become disturbed by fanservice and its place as a primary concern in anime. third, when your only comment about the long pause before the main character of a series crushes his new best friend to death is "what is up with that scene anyway?" rather than any meaningful reading of the scene, I frankly have little respect for your ability to do more than anime as pop culture, rather than literature or art. I am of the conviction that NGE is as close to high art, postmodernist literature, as any anime has ever gotten. I'm not saying that Evangelion is the best anime ever made just because it worked hard to defy viewer expectations, but that's certainly the reason I loved it. If you would rather have seen another mecha anime where the pilots are confident and steely and whose only troubles are a temporary question of their skill or self-control or their past sins, then go watch Kill la Kill or something. Kill la Kill is certainly a visual marvel, but makes no attempt to take itself seriously in terms of plot or character development, yet contradicts itself by including serious and disturbing themes like totalitarian rule, class discrimination, capitalist domination, surveillance, and even the dangers of artificial intelligence. It brings these serious themes up, even relies on them to develop plot, but makes little effort to provide coherent or developed opinions on these themes. But Otakus generally have their one way of seeing things, and these videos, unlike a proper discussion, are a one-sided ego-stroking session, a masturbatory exercise in how much more this guy knows about anime and pop-culture than you do. Enjoy your internet celebrity friends, your vitamin D deficiency and your moderately inflated bank account, Mr. Neckbeard. If I had no sense of shame, I, too would spend all my time watching TV and recording my thoughts as lectures from Professor Besserwisser.
plasticwrapcharlie thank you so much for putting this into words so brilliantly. Evangelion is a great show, and Bennet doesn't even seem to understand it on a basic level. Your comment is honestly one of the best i've ever seen on here.
mummy boy thanks. I was just really pissed off after watching his review of EoE and this. And to think I initially liked him because he used KMFDM in his intro. I just can't believe his approach to anime can be so one-dimensional, so shallow. He's like the Roger Ebert of anime or something. Go fuck yourself, you know it all. And if you simply decided to troll NGE fans to get more views, then well done you evil genius.
I always hated one thing about evangelion: the over-the-top screaming! Whenever someone gets pummeled, or beats the crap out of an angel, they scream as if they're shitting diarrhetic lava out of their asses!
Cool Well, I guess it's too much to ask from Japan's teenages in the near future to keep it down when they're maimed... but after all, their ancestors were known to slice their bellies open with knives and not even make a sound, so you kinda expect at least some of them to take it like a pro :)
I too really don't like Evangelion, but mainly because of main cast. Shinji, Asuka and Rei are.... I don't have words for them. Sidecharacters are much better, and some of themes are well realized BUT! Fuck me, this show almost destroyed my interest in anime. I am Macross kid, I love Hikaru Ichijyo, he have very similar backstory as Shinji, and look at his character development. Minmay is annoying but not nearly as annoying as Asuka (she is German, not British as many anime characters are, thanks God, I don't want to hate Brits because of her), Rei is... O.K, she never do much, so she never screw much and her backstory is really interesting (whole clonning thing) but then The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya happened and somebody did Rei clone so good, that this clone is much better then original. You know, character development and likability and all that jazz. So, if you are fan of Evangelion, good for you but I am with Sage, this show have good ideas but is so convoluded and unfocused and trying so hard be Kubrick-like that it falls flat on face.
I don't know but for me Gainax itself did themes of Evangelion better in other theyr works, I am not really fan of theyrs but I give them credit, they really know theyr stuff. Yes, Robotech (or Macross as I know it here in Europe) is pretty dumb, very much japanese Star Wars, crossed with Star Trek, full of tropes and awnful English dub, but they did it solidly and really, really memorably. Hell, as a kid I was horrified by death of captain Focker and other supporting characters! And Evangelion have same moments of horror, yes, I like that part of the ending of movie, it is done really good, but than animators took LSD and did that horrible abomination which is the other part of the ending. As I said, Haruhi Suzumiya made me care again about anime, I loved books, I loved series and movie and spin-off series, which was weird because I usually like shows like Cowboy Bebop or Black Lagoon, but when you have really amazingly written, voice-acted (in japanese, obviously), humorous and likable cast, you can get away with pretty weird stuff.
***** I was referring to Nagato Yuki, not Haruhi Suzumiya herself. She was too created for greater purpose, she is too soft-spoken, shut in and has rather strange relationship with main guy. I am not even exaturating, creator of anime series literary mentioned Rei as inspiration for Nagato Yuki, hard to say if Tanigara Nagaru, creator of light novels, has same inspiration but you know, that archetype is pretty common in anime and manga.
Anthony Johnson I compared Minmay and Asuka in theyr annoyingness, theyr role in theyr particular series is different, I know. And there is very similar motive in Macross and NGE, that "coming of age", which is achieved by different means but is there. My point is that NGE have couple of very good episodes (Rei III particulary) but it's mess of moods and limp jokes, when it's serious, I almost like it, when it's trying to be funny, it fell flat. Characters are very important in this kind of stories, and as artist myself, I am François Truffaut's pupil in his "cinema greater than life", so you never impress me with overly realistic characters. Besides, Shinji and Asuka are real extremes and Rei isn't character at all. Macross made an impact, very good impact and I love it, and there is very, very realistic and quite unusual love story in it, NGE annoyed me and don't get me started on that trainwreck The End of Evangelion. They tried so hard to be edgy and clever...
Anthony Johnson They have cute mascot, just like most anime have. There is stark contrast between Angel battles, EVA plot thread and ordinary school life with every trope you can imagine, I love Misato but she have couple strange moments, and there is my the most glaring complain: How the hell Shinji never changed after he killed so many Angels and fought so many battles? That was my point of comparison with Hikaru, Hikaru changed after his experiences, that is character development, he was different man at the end of series, Shinji wasn't. Why? And by the way, Rei is what I consider "non-character", not Asuka or Shinji, they are extremes but still characters. If you can relate with those, more power to you, I am not attacking your values, I can't relate with those people at all, I can relate with Kyon from Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya really well, because I knew girl like Haruhi and we still have great relationship. You know, maybe because I really, really, REALLY hate Ingmar Bergman movies, and NGE reminds me about them, my view is a bit harsh.
I love the show, but being hated is the best thing it ever did. You could tell the fairly lifeless copy cats from the shows that were passionately created as a complete counterpoint to the last half of Eva, and the counterpoints tended to be really unique and interesting. I think more manga artists were driven to create by an intense hatred of the direction the show veered off on than ever inspired by an unconditional love for it.
I don't understand. When did the whiney young teen cliché become a thing? I mean first you got that girl from gunbusters, then it's shinji from Evangelion, and then Leo Stenbuck from Zone of the enders! When did this become a thing? I don't like this cliché one bit at all. Do you think so?
The Anti-feminist agnostic The whiney young teen has been around for a long time, not to long after authors started to use young teens as main characters. The reason being that the idea that a character is or at least feels he is mentally unready for his calling in life is noting new. Think of the old greek stories of the call of adventure or heroism; while some were ready or even eager to head out, others were fearful and ran away from it usually resulting in tragedy. Greeks aren't the first to use the it but the example gives you an idea of how old the father of this cliché is. Admittedly watching those shows makes me want the heavens to end those sad sacks of misery and self defeat quickly with divine retribution in traditional greek style but what's done is done.
The Anti-feminist agnostic The girl from Gunbuster at least became a badass halfway into the OVA series. Shinji's a whiny, irritating and annoying little shit from beginning to end.
Okay I know Shinji is “realistic”... but let’s be honest, real people can also be annoying and unlikable. He’s a great character... but he’s an awful person. I despise him. Also: GET IN THE ROBOT SHINJI!!!!!
TheMegaUzumaki Yeah that’s fair. They are very problematic (then again I think that was Anno’s intention). It’s just that Shinji is the most talked about character. Also: Idk I just love that phrase XD
I saw this anime when I was younger and it had a lot going for it. Had some interesting themes, symbols, character dynamics etc but it ultimately went Jar Jar Binks on itself. I can't deny that. I know people say that you need to be "smart" to like it but I scored in the 99th percentile on my ASVAB. I realize that is not clinching proof that I'm smart (hence why that is not the point I will make) but if it escapes me I will simply be skeptical of those who insist one just needs to be smarter to get it.
anal lover I went and rewatched it. I largely disagree with Sage now. I do get a lot: Asuka, Rei Misato and Shinji are deconstructions of popular anime stereotypes (particularly the first two). Showing how crazy they have to be to be those tropes. Shinji rejects instrumentality by realizing that human contact brings pain, but that makes them worthwhile. Seele and Gendo both tried to avoid reality. Gendo by changing it to bring back his wife, Seele by making their wonderland. And by repudiating this, Shinji shows he is more adult than them. The EVA's are mother metaphors, with the cockpits being womb like. Hence why they all break after Shinji rejects instrumentality. yada yada.
You dont need to be smart per say, but you have to have knowlegde about pychology, philosophy, religion, to fully take in what Ano tried putting out there. That or the willingness to research it and understand it.
Brandon Messer well anno said the religious stuff just looked cool. But I rewatched the show and I think I got a good grasp on it now. I enjoyed it a lot more and such. Shinji rejects instrumentality by realizing human interactions cause pain but that makes them worth while. Every character is antisocial in some way, all the adults try to flee reality in some way. Asuka loves Shinji but is too fucked up to be affectionate, sort of a joke on the whole tsundere thing. etc etc I sort of knew this was what the show was saying at first: individuality is good, become an adult etc etc but I thought it was too opaque when I was younger.
In Super Robot Wars V Shinji got an actual character development and grew some actual balls that he can freely control a berserk Eva and it's fucking awesome When a video game does a better job to the characters than its anime you know it has problems
I think Aska is the REAL reason why I never got into this show. She's just so freakin' obnoxious. I have never been more disgusted by and anime girl's behavior in my life.
Dennis Taylor That's because she was designed this way. She is basically a a critique of American stereotype Japanese believe in. All gung-ho but nothing else. Muscle over brains etc. Trying to be an independent woman and overdoing it in the process. She and Rei are to provide a contrast to each other as both are extremes from the opposite ends of the spectrum. They even bloody colour coded for the audiences convenience, as has red hair and the other blue ones and vice versa when it comes to the eyes.
KoalaCyborg5000 IIRC she has Japanese, American as well as German ancestry. And please don't ask me in what proportion;-) Overall each part of her surname is a reference at a WWII aircraft carrier.
he actually loves anime, trigun, cowboy bebop, ghost in the shell, the big o, besides a lot of others anime bennet has said that he love, he hates evangelion because its so overrated.
Renzo Fideli Sancho the franchise is overrated, EoE isn't. The subtlety, the characters, the message, the realist yet optimistic tone of the movie. Everything in this movie is just a masterful artwork crafted by a guy who hit his lowest low but came back as a new man. Too bad he made the Rebuilds because those movies is a middle finger to the original series.
I like this review (and most of your reviews), it's reasonable. But not the EOE review, at that review you release your hate directly from your bowels.
![ตีสิบเดย์ [FULL] | นางเอกหมอลำเงินล้าน "อุ๋งอิ๋ง เพชรบ้านแพง" & ไฮโซสาวสุดฮอต "ลิลลี่ เหงียน"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/jPxQS_EgrJ4/mqdefault.jpg)
Sage may have a burning hatred for the show, but he's able to word why he hates it very fairly, without insulting people who DO like the show. That's commendable.
Hmmm... still, he is wrong. And that is a pity, because he is a rather intelligent guy who should see more than just "Shinji prefers to wallow in his own problems rather than save the world!" in NGE...
+Asehpe You can't really be "right" or "wrong" with liking or disliking something. It's taste. Eva just isn't Sage's taste. Let's accept that.
Nenilein Sigh! You're probably right.
Why is he wrong though though? He got why he's in that position perfectly, and still managed to point out why it doesn't work in the context of the series. His next review also calls out how the symbolism in NGE is, well...PRETENTIOUS and insignificant, which even Anno admitted to be true(the symbols in NGE have more aesthetic value than thematic one, and the show is pretty much the guy's therapy sessions)
+VladNorris I don't think he's wrong about it either. You can't be wrong about personal taste after all.
damn, evangalion really has a bipolar watcher isn't it.
Those who like it will really love it
and those who hate it, will hate it to the death
Truest statement I've ever heard
What Bennet seems to forget about Shinji is that he is ultimately fighting depression, and the end of the world scenario which he battles over and over can be likened to thoughts of suicide, or ending it all. Those who suffer from suicidal thoughts and depression can often times be treated with impatience and told to "get over it."
The series finale (not the film) shows Shinji finally overcoming his depression and growing to love life, finally defeating his biggest monster. At least, that's how I interpreted it.
Would have been better if it were more along the lines of insanity.....that's always interesting......god, I'm so fucked up saying that.......
yup but I disagree Sinji is so unlikeable that no sane person could want him to " get over it " if anything I want to see that asshole Sinji dead
you've got a point but still when both sinji and asuna get hurt I gain back some hope inhumanity
+TheMegaUzumaki I didn't want either character dead. The point is to see beyond their problems and understand them. It's a persistent theme in the show. Kaji and even Kaworu talk about it.
The series ending is a hell of a lot happier then any of the crap that happened in End of Eva.
Instrumentality is archived, and everyone in the series irons out their mental problems though the magic of being a hive-mind.
For a huge cop-out that avoided all of the hanging plot threads, it was a very good cop-out.
I personally like Evangelion, but I can see why people hate it.
i doesnt seem bad in one movie called you can not advance asuka gets killed by shinjis eva because his dad controls the eva and makes the eva Crush asuka in a pod or does she get killed by the spear of longinus Sage said she gets killed by the Spear of longinus in one of his video about end of evangelion video I don't know how she dies in the anime series I only seen her die in 2.22
xdialga361445x She isn't dead, only injured. She is alive in both series.
+The Old King Cole in 2.22 wasnt she crushed in the capsule and killed because of shinji's dad controlling the his unit or hers unit that shows you what kind of thing
+xdialga361445x *that shows blood exploding from the capsule
xdialga361445x "Shows Evangelion 3.0 where Asuka appears in the opening, which takes place 14 years after the end of 2.0"
Wow, Sage.
The death threats were AFTER the series, and during the production of End.
Anno was on antipsychosis medication for the "crazy" half of Evangelion, and in therapy.
...the budget cuts were external, and Gainax's studio heads were embezzling up to $14 million of the budget.
Lets not forget to mention that the characters going nuts didnt interrupt any of the little plot that was happening or revealed
Wait, there was embezzling going on?
@@cheezemonkeyeater Yeah, that was such a casual bomb. As if it's just common knowledge, lol.
I'd like to think Evangelion could be improved exponentially if professional rapper DMX was the main character.
Ya'll gon make me lose my sync up in here. What these Angels want from a pilot? Shinji Gon Give it to you. Alright I'm done, just had to get it out of my system.
crazyinsane500 aahhaha, that comment
crazyinsane500 Oh my god. Best comment ever.
crazyinsane500 You sir win the internet.
zillafire101 You people keep saying this and I keep accepting it. I know.
saying "get over it" to a depressed person. You could almost be a psychologist, Sage.
HOULWOOD While I agree this stance is dumb, when it comes down to the end of the world scenario, a person has to buck up against the odds and at least try to salvage what's left. It doesn't help how fucking everyone in NGE just kicks Shinji's shit around though to force him into conflict without so much as trying to understand him.
***** i dont understand what you mean, he always gets in the eva, he sees it as a way to get people to like him.
HOULWOOD It just seems like he puts his problems above the fate of the world most of the time, even when he DOES get in the mech. He's only doing it to make people like him. If he didn't think that would do it, he'd probably just refuse to get in it.
***** ep 19 was all about how he saves his friends despite of his depression. But you know, you have a point and that doesn't make it a bad show. He isn't someone you should idealize but he does ask you to have empathy.
HOULWOOD I don't have empathy for the person who in End of Evangelion decided to let the world end. I thought they had mentioned that Eva Unit 1 had beasically become god, and since Shinji was its pilot, couldn't he have made a decision to save the world? Shinji is not a person I would want in a survival situation. In any other situation, I would feel more sympathetic, but when it concerns the fate of the world, I'm more worried about the many than the few.
shinji did nothing wrong. He's being emotionally blackmailed by everyone around him to risk his life constantly for people and a world that doesn't give a shit about him.
Exactly
+kai moore you know your cancer right?
+Robert Paulson honestly I hated shinji at first but then after I found out that this show was "based in reality" I figured out shinji is just a normal dude
I wouldn't say he did nothing wrong but everything else is pretty much correct.
100% agreed. His "wining" is understandable in the crappy situation he was forced into. The only time I felt he crossed the line into being "emo trash" is when he hesitated killing Kaurou (a guy who LITERALLY ASKED SHINJI TO KILL HIM), and even then, Kaurou is the only person who showed an interest in Shinji just because the Angel boy wanted to.
Sage, to Shinji's credit, he has nothing to fight for. he doesn't value life so much the way everyone else does. Why should he be expected to be so motivated?
Considering the angels want to wipe out everything? That makes Shinji selfish. How are countless lives or even his own not enough?
@@michaeliv284 either way they're still doomed even if he was motivated
Sadly I was Shinji for a for years of my life, being all mopey and shit was not good. The natural evolution of Shinji should have taken him to a place where he met someone who changed his view on the world without trying to change his view. Hell happened to me and if not for my mate I would still be a complete and utter Shinji, basically people like Shinji (aka myself for a long time) cannot be forced into thinking different we have to find our own way with some subtle input from those around us. Of course Shinji had the whole Angel and 3rd impact crap to worry over but still.
it's depressing that shinji is basically me, emotionally wrecked, overly introspective, sexually uncomfortable, shinji is sadly accurate in this generation
I can understand why so many people find Shinji ''obnoxious,'' but what I think a lot of people forget is that Evangelion is a coming-of-age story that focuses in part on self-esteem. The moral of the story is that we are all alike at the core of things, so in some way or another we were all just as whiny and insecure of a kid as Shinji was.
Depression does make you self absorbed, but the fact Shinji never even tries just... ugh.
His 'resolution' was stupid and awful, depression doesn't go away from one little deep chat session. It can help, but you don't get instantly cured like that. Bleh.
Depends, seeing as at the end of the film he seems....off. and also he found a reality to escape to only to realize he was just running away. He chose to give life a shot and felt good about it
As a dude whose dealt with depression since Early childhood, depression isn't self absorbed, it's self afflicting. It makes you want punish yourself in a way, or stop caring about yourself. You stop bathing, you sleep more, you eat too little or too much. You lose purpose. You hurt you. I always hated Shining because he wasn't a simple of depression, but of bad teenage angst. He was punishing the world for how he felt, and he wasn't even going thru anything crippling. He was akward with sex and his father never spoke to him....so it's okay to let the world burn? Nah, if they wanted to make him interesting or a image of a depressed hero then have him do everything for the world he can, while suffering. Have him rising to the threat fighting it, then going into his room for days not eating much if anything and waiting for the next fight.
PookieDaExzile By Self Absorbed I mean being unable to see outside your own situation. It's not being selfish. It's part of the condition. What others may see as 'thoughtless' or 'selfish' behaviour is just you dealing with your brain chemistry, your empathy goes down. It's why I get angry when people say suicide is 'selfish' because depressed people are sometimes incapable of thinking that far ahead. This lines up with my own experience of depression.
I think Shinji was depressed, he certainly hated himself. But the problem is that he never grows as a character. He's exactly as useless and self hating at the end as he was on day one, and the finale is just some half arsed 'talking it out makes it all better.'
Tip: If simply talking and thinking was enough to cure depression, we wouldn't be depressed.
I would have liked Shinji more if the creators explored his journey more, how he gradually finds more to live for right when the world is about to end. The little moments that make him think 'maybe living isn't so bad after all' or when someone does something for him and he thinks 'maybe I'm not so terrible.'
I don't mind whiny depressed characters, Shinji is just particularly irritating because he never progresses.
Kai Sea id argue that the ending was more of a 'talking him off the ledge' thing. Depressed people get talked out of suicide and stay miserable.
Also it was cleary him sharing everyones feelings and thoughts which gave him a perspective.......also its shinji.....the second he realized what he left he regretted it and wanted to try. Shinji is in a constant tug of war.
Also hes something, depressed is not his core issue. He suffers from social and pyschological issues beyond that.
The show didnt bring up the concept of the hedgehogs dilema for nothing
DeathgGod I think depression is in there tho. And yeah you can argue the last scene is effective in different ways, hell you can even love it, but my point is his issues are almost /never/ dealt with outside of people telling him to grow a backbone (which never helps.)
We don't often see characters with mental illnesses, let alone protagonists, so I guess I'm just pissed off at the wasted opportunity.
The budget for Evangelion per episode was $60,000, whereas Futurama was $1.2 million per episode...That explains the still frames.
Futurama was 1.2 million per episode? How the hell did they justify paying that? That's more then 10 times what Fox spends on animated series (or any other western animator for that mater). Where did you get that number? Because I'm 100% sure you're off by a factor of 10.
And that's before one even has to ask why on half the budget of your typical western animation (120,000$/episode) still frames where the best they could do. I know anime tends to be more expensive (around 300,000$/episode) but that still begs several question. I mean sure, you could say "but they spent too much on earlier episodes", which only begs the question "then why didn't then plan their series better?" or "why didn't they end it an episode or two sooner?".
dave19941000 Well, if you actually watch Evangelion all the way through, the really well done animation of the EVAs is particularly ambitious, it's film quality animation. Unlike a traditional Mecha series that can reuse footage, a lot of EVAS most animated and striking scenes for very obvious reasons couldn't be reused. Sure they reused the "andromeda strain" episode footage, but I think Anno did that specifically to piss off critics who didn't like the episode. Much of End of Evangelion is "fan-tagonism". The opening scene is a criticism of fans who just masturbate over something that is near and dear to the heart of the creator Hideaki Anno. Shinji chokes Asuka, most likely as a symbolic act of the fans killing the series. If you really think there isn't anything to the "fan-tagonism", consider that the end montage utilized several letters from fans that included death threats. Anno has a complicated past with fans of Eva, and End of Evangelion was his way of giving a more visually stimulating version of the original ending, while also criticizing those who jerk off to 14 year old girls.
Also, he had nothing to do with the shitty sound effects that were added. If you watch the commentary with the dub team, a lot of the show wasn't necessarily explained to them, and so to them they used humorous sound effects and stuff just for laughs. They loved the series, but never really expected that anyone would watch their dub or the show at all. I'll never understand why people watch dubs anyway, very few have the budget for good voice actors and it shows.
JUSTANUTTERPROD I don't see why you bring up the movie or the dub staff in all this, my comment was just about the fact that Fantasy Blade seemed to be implying that eva cost 6000$ per episode to make (an absurdly low number which never would have had the series greenlit if true, and seems more in line with how much it would have cost ADV to convert each episode) coupled with the claim that Futurama cost 1.2 million per episode (unlikely, but if true then it would be a "simpsons" situation where 90% of the budget would be in the voice actors).
dave19941000 I typed $60,000* Also, here is the source alfalfa.livedoor.biz/archives/50621035.html use translate and you can find it says that Evangelion is made with 6,250,000 yen and Futurama is made with 100,000,000 yen. Which after conversion is roughly US$60,000 for Eva and US$1mil for Futurama. Other sources supports this www.toonzone.net/forums/adult-swim-toonami-forum/81178-futuramas-budget.html#.U3Aw-_mSx8E
Fantasy Blade Does it take inflation into account? And even so, how much is for the animation budget, because Futurama seems to have a "Simpsons" situation where, again, 90% of the budget seems to be in the VA department.
Ever want to start a riot among weaboos?
Just utter the word "evangelion". Things will just exacerbate from there.
Or Berserk 2016/SAO/The Big Three
Basically anything that will piss off both anime fans and weeaboos. No, they're not the same thing, last time I checked.
This show stinks
@@lordblueballs7293 With Berzerk their no rioting until some sociopath says Griffith did nothing wrong.
Meh, I kinda think you swung and missed on te analysis of Shinji. His lack of any real character development in relation to his problem, constant urge to escape, and habit of disappearing into himself are more indicative of someone with a case of persistent depression than merely and angsty teenager.
The "world in danger" thing is just a hyperactive version of the feeling that there is something you have to do, something which is really hard to deal with when depressed. Honestly, Shinji's psyche to me just screams "IM ANNO'S DEPRESSION, I'M ANNO'S DEPRESSION".
He's not an unlikely hero, he's a broken kid who's trauma and mental issues render him incapable of actually developing and surpassing his issues. Kinda accurate in that way, mental issues don't go away because it would make a nice story ark.
Totally agree with you here ! having had experience with depression myself, i found a lot of what Sage was saying to line up with a lot of the characteristics of clinical depression. However, as i have not watched a lot of the show myself i felt a bit weird about leaving an comment, but if you have noticed the same thing, then it may be accurate.
You just described what an angsty teenager is.
The entire problem is that a story about depression and saving the world don't go well together. Both work well on their own, but when you try to mix then, one will take a backseat.
Usually it is the personal problems in a situation like this. People will overcome their alcoholism, avolition or phobia, simply because they have to for the plot to progress. NGE did the opposite and it works even less.
Schwarzer Ritter
It goes extremely well together when you concider the possibility that the show isn't literal.
Not entirely sure what NERV is meant to represent, but the EVA mech is clearly meant to represent the peoples aid and support for Shinji and how even with all that, the issues, or "angels" you deal with can still seem near insurmountable.
The thing with depression is that it's a fricking bitch to deal with. It's not an issue that you can just switch off and in the case where someone does manage to overcome it, it rarely or never stays off.
For an individual there is no differense between saving the world and saving one self. Thus a lot of the things that trigger anxiety in people appear equally as large as a global apocalyptic event. Thus, for someone whom understands depression, it is not hard at all to see how saving the world and depression can work extremely well together. This show is trying to convay the emotions and thoughts of deep depression and a lot of people has no point of reference for that and it can be very hard to reach that portion of the audience.
This is why I think it is best to see NGE as a painting rather than as an anime. It's not meant to be entertaining, it's meant to paint a mental state.
Caldera
Unfortunately for you, NGE is not a painting. It's an anime. And it will be viewed and judged as such. And as an anime, a lot of elements do not go together and are executed less than poorly. Not only thtat, but I will fight anyone who claims that NGE is deep. It has symbolism, but it's not deep. It's actually face fucking you with the meanings. Asuka herself says "Does it feel good inside that EVA, Shinji? Does it feel like your mother's womb?". That is the opposite of deep. It's shallow.
Shinji IS realistically representative of someone with PTSD, anxiety, and depression. especially considering he's barely a teenager and the fate of the world is being forced into his hands while he has to fight in a giant robot by merging with the soul of his dead mother, all while his father is an abusive dickmunch to him.
Anyone's thoughts would be constantly plagued by reassurance that they're worthless, but can't make any mistakes, that they're constantly in pain. And yet, through all of this, he finds room to be worried about the well-being of other people, who berate him for caring about anyone other than himself, and then for caring about himself at all.
And then he kind of meets an angel who may or may not be in love with him and then he dies and Shinji basically has a huge breakdown, all leading up to that introspection episode(s), where he needs to finally learn to accept his own value not just as a tool, but as a person. it's something very important for mentally ill people - especially people growing up in an age of increasing pressure to perform 100% perfect in education and life, because not only is the previous generation living vicariously through them, but also financially depend on them for retirement and school funding from test scores and such - to see, and to see him live with and overcome in a way that doesn't glorify, reduce, or mock.
when people say he's a whiny, obnoxious asshole for crying and panicking during the situation that quickly becomes his entire life, they're basically saying that real people aren't good, aren't likeable, and that realistic reactions don't have as much of a place in popular representation as the unreasonably logical approach of knowing exactly what one needs to do and how to act.
You said it yourself. it's his own psychosis against the world. Key term Psychosis. it's not something that people are often able to recognize - or if they do, not something that they can stop. The fact that we're seeing the contrast of personal killswitches - something that can shut down someone's own world, i.e. their own self and life - against the outside world is a fascinating way to induce meaningful frustration in the audience. Because it's true, and we can relate. As people, we tend to view ourselves with as much importance as the entirety of existence, not because we're selfish, but because that's literally all existence is to us. when our self is being destroyed, not by death, but by our own minds falling apart due to forces we can't control, there's usually nothing we can do on our own to fix it our bring ourselves back. And when the world is being destroyed by outside forces that they can't control - the angels - the struggle to sacrifice what little we have left tethering ourselves to all of existence - our bodily health, our loved ones, and our use as a cog in society - seems nearly impossible to overcome. for many, they never do, and it's not because they're selfish or not trying.
That's why the world becomes a hollow, desolate chamber with only the figures and voices of characters at the end. Because of the extended plot, fan interaction, and insane amount of creative freedom the creators gained as time went on, the overall story became a metaphor for the personal story. when you're at the end of your rope, all you have are memories, analyses of the people you once knew, and who you think yourself to be. All you have is the conversations you can hold with yourself, and to be able to pull yourself out of that and save yourself - again, the world - is a truly monumental achievement. Congratulations.
I always thought PTSD had something to do with a past experience, or it's over but you're still fucked up.
+QuikVidGuy REALLY like this analogy, bravo good sir
Strike Phoenix if it happened a day ago and you start showing symptoms that last for months, it's still ptsd.
Good point. Hadn't thought of it that way.
Dear everyone: CUT SHINJI SOME FUCKING SLACK. As bad as his child hood was its surprising he actually grew up as good as he did. He is a Child Not an adult. Barely even finished with puberty. Its ironic because characters like Alex DeLarge from a Clockwork Orange who are the same age get tons of slack from people but Shinji who isn't intentional harmful (most of the time) people act like he is the anti Christ.
17:15 that's...not how animation works. we're basically seeing a still image that was animated once. You don't have to reanimate it for every frame, you just reuse the same animation. And even then, separate things are animated separately and put together. So for example when Asuka hiccups or adjusts or whatever, they only needed to animate her, and they reused the same animation of Rei and the background.
In fact the reason that shot exists is kinda the exact opposite of what you're saying. They were out of time and budget and stretched practically a single animation to last a minute. Instead of wasting tons of time and effort it actually saved it. And i think it did a pretty good job of characterizing the two and their relationship, especially in the full context of the scene.
Similarly, shots like 18:50 require the animation of only two still images. A background, and the object in the foreground. The object is laid over the background and images are taken while moving the animations up a bit each frame to create a panning effect, or now it's just done digitally, not sure with NGE. But the bottom line is they don't redraw the drawing every single frame within just the confines of the frame we see.
Even though I know Evangelion is a flawed show, I found the reason I love the series is because of the awesome mech fights, complete mind-fuckery, and Shinji himself. I don't try to look deep into the show like everyone says you should, I just turn my brain off during it except when something that is required to think about how messed up it is. And with Shinji, yes he's an annoying, broken kid. But seriously people, would you be a courageous badass if you had to get in a mech that connects pain receivers from the mech to you? On top of fighting against the biggest threat to Earth, while balancing your crumbling state of mind as well?
I think a lot of you are really limiting yourself saying you're not going to watch Eva because of Sage's opinion. You should find out what you think about Eva yourself, and whether you love it or hate it then. I personally love it, and i get others may hate it, but if you haven't even watched it just because of someone else's view then you'll never know.
+CatCannons Well said.
nah its a piece of shit.
Who loves the Opening song of this Anime anyway?
Finally see Evangelion.
Return to see the Anime Abandon episode for it.
Them downvotes.
I have a feeling that Sage and I agree on this one like we did Grave of the Fireflies.
Alrighty then. Play...
Feels weird to come back to these after the latest two reviews, but FOR THE SAKE OF ANNO'S SANITY!
You know I'm starting to think that shinji was a self-insert for anno, Considering that he was also suffering from depression at this time.
3:45
Congratulations, Steven!
Seriously, of ALL the anime references to wind up on a Cartoon Network show.
Seeing this take on Evangelion compared to the more recent one, it’s almost hard to believe they were made by the same person.
The had 40 second still shots to save money. They draw one picture and repeat it, they don't draw the same image 1000 times
Even the director Anno says he made up everything as he went and that most people read too deep into it.
Yeah. That tends to be what happens when improvising a story that ends up being a huge hit. Side note, I hate NGE and everything about it.
As a person who recently watched the series and movie, I have to say I enjoyed it. Granted, I agree with almost every point here, but hey, what are you gonna do. And to be fair, that extended seen with Kaoru and Shinji does have some mood sense.
Shinji has been discussed ad nauseam; I will only say this: to think of him as simply an 'obnoxious emo boy' is like thinking of Cowboy Bebop's Spike as a 'coward who can't let go of his past'. It's true in a way that is completely false; and if you can't see this, if you think that empathy is deserved only by heroes who were overcome by circumstances beyond their control after they do their very best... then there's something about humans that eludes you... Being self-absorbed doesn't mean you're not human; hell, most humans I've seen on the internet (including, frankly, you) look a lot more self-absorbed than they should be. That does not make them any less human (or, in your case, make your opinions any less interesting), and interesting in their very flaws.
btw i liked nge but my issue with shinji is i wanted to see him overcome his flaws
urbanmyths95 So did I. And he did, in the very end. But the series wasn't out to reward our desire to see the hero win -- it was out to show how hard this path actually is. It's not just a question of Kamina slapping Simon and saying "have you snapped out of it yet"? It's harder than that, harder than fighting with a giant robot, That Shinji managed to do it at the end is perhaps the most unbelievable aspect of the show.
Asehpe
ok i wanted a slow organic change that's what i meant
urbanmyths95 I know. It would have been more comforting. We would have felt better about ourselves. But Anno wanted more realism than that... and in reality, as the song goes, not all dreams come true. And this battle is not so much organic as it is terribly, terribly painful.
***** I don't think it was that simple. Shinji also craved human contact. He wanted to be liked. He also cared about his friends, and wanted to be able to help them. Not being able to do either was hard on him (remember him with the pillow on his head, so as not to hear Misato's sobs after Kaji died?)
8:10 See. That's way easier said than actually done. And to shinji's credit, he does actually kill angels. Even became arrogant and more confident in episode 16
i find this review weird, how can sage miss the fact that the message is fight suicide and depression, of course he s obnoxious and a loser, he is suffering of depression, the ending of evangelion is he choosing between death and life, the end of his world and complete escapism, or keep living, "save the world", the congratulation scene is he choosing to live, to not commit suicide, evangellion is not meant to be pleasant, it is """art"""" because it isn't screaming it's real message, the plot isn't the goal, it is the experience and message, a normal person don't feel related to shinji, because he is meant to be reliable to people with depression, the scene where it shows the audience is a message that anyone can be like shinji, someone who thinks the world would be better without them
the world would be better off with people like shinji. Depressed people are different, they just need proper care and attention (¬_¬).
I have real, severe, been-hospitalized-twice-because-of-suicidal-ideations, self harm causing depression and I fucking hate Shinji. I don't relate to him at all because even though I don't have the date of the fucking world at my fingertips I still have unwanted responsibilities placed on my shoulders that I either deal with or go homeless and lose people I care about. He's a whiny, selfish baby that can't get his shit together even when he has people helping him and the lives of millions in his hands.
@@nightmarefanatic1819 You couldn't handle the weight of the world and millions of lives LOL
@@zz7073 And I, along with 99% of the world's population will never have to. That just completely eviscerates any argument to Shinji's relatability. Thanks for helping me prove OP wrong.
@@nightmarefanatic1819 You're welcome.
I HIGHLY disagree with your opinion of Asuka. I don't like her personality, either, but she is in the end, a sympathetic character. You see, if you had watched the 26 episode series, you would know that Asuka's mother refused to acknowledge her as her daughter, and would talk to a doll as if IT were Asuka. This was due to contact with an angel, as the series explains, true enough. However, imagine being a kid her age, and witnessing your mother's suicide, and imagine that doll as someone who was so much better than you, not even your own MOTHER ACKNOWLEDGED YOUR EXISTENCE.
THAT ALONE will deal some heavy psychological damage, as Asuka goes on to complete her EVA training, and becomes an EVA pilot. The EVA is the only thing that gives her any sort of self-respect, and when she starts losing to Shinji, she feels, unjustifiably, that everyone at NERV is ignoring her. She starts slipping down a very dark path, and eventually goes suicidal, nearly. This explains every bit of her annoying personality, as bad as she may be. She has very legitimate reasons for being the way she is. Her ego stems from her having very little self-esteem in the first place, which is why she is so self-absorbed.
Exactly. At her core, she suffers from basically the same problems as Shinji, but attempts to cope (and eventually fails) in the completely opposite way.
I love NGE but I do have some problems with it and I understand that it's not for everyone. But it's annoying how nearly everyone who hates it just says,"Shinji is annoying" and,"it has a bad ending"
Finally, A NGE Fan Who Doesn't Get So Defensive About People Not Liking It. Im Not Personally A Fan But I Realize The Anime Has A Lot Of Good Stuff To It and I can even look past the ending. However, I Find All The Characters ( Except Rei) To Be Incredibly Unlikable
Shinji was only a small, albeit important part of Evangelion's flaws.
Its pretentious, boring second half. It was literally (I'm not kidding here) impossible to understand the anime by just paying attention and rewatching it, you had to go out and play the ambiguously canon video game and read the encyclopedias and all of that shit.
An ending worse than Mass Effect 3's ending, offering no closure, tying up exactly zero loose ends (and boy were there many), never answering the important questions (What were the Evas, Clones of Angels or Artificial Human-Angel hybrids? What was Seele exactly? What are the Dead Sea Scrolls? Is Rei a clone of Yui, Lilith or both? If an Angel contacting Adam would result in Third Impact, then why doesn't a human contacting Lilith engineer Third Impact? Why doesn't Gendo contacting Adam (literally fusing him into his body) not initiate Third Impact? What was the Angel's goal? Were the Angels working together? What was Kaworu? Why was he subservient to Seele if he's an Angel? Who's souls do the MP Evas have? I could go on FOREVER like this)
SuperTechmarine
The problem is that you're trying to read into it as you would a ordinary mech anime.
The way I see it, the plot and practically everything in the franchise is mere backdrop to the main theme of the anime. Depression and anxiety. In other words, you're trying to make sense of something that is inherently nonsensical, exactly like depression and anxiety.
You're not really supposed to like Shinji, he's the main character and the protagonist, but even at best you can only identify with him. The issue here is that Shinji has a completely broken personality. He has no self esteem, or respect. Unless you've experienced anything like that, you're not supposed to like, or identify with him. What you're supposed to do then is to see what it is like. You're supposed to recognise how a person cannot simply just pick themselves up from such a state and function normally. You need a group of people to help and guide you to rebuild your self image. NGE takes this struggle through religion, which many desperate people do turn to. But depression isn't something you can fight off easily, you can get a lot of support and tools from the people around you, but in the end, you're alone battling your inner demons and it's up to you to emerge victorious.
When Shinji is fighting the Angels, what is actually happening is that he is fighting against his inner demons donned in the suit of his religion. Thus what actually happens is practically inconcequencial, everyones battles are unique and it is extremely rare for these battles to be sensical, or reasonable. This is why a statement such as "get over it" is honestly kind of enfuriating.
Caldera Which was stupid on Anno's part because the Angels, Evas and the whole setting were a thousand times more interesting than the characters and their issues. Had he made some halfway likable characters and then broke them I might like the anime more.
SuperTechmarine
Again, the characters and the plot is irrelevant. What is important is the mental state, at least in my opinion.
The entire point is that you're not supposed to like Shinji. You really aren't.
The amount of butthurt in the comment section below is staggering.
Change the name of eva to seriousfuckingbutthurt, the fans reactions will match its literal title and embodiment. xD
+Buizelstar
BUT IT'S "TOO DEEP FOR YOU!"
Feel and love that sarcasm...
+HisHolyMajesty The amount of fans of this show who just don't think we get it is staggering! Since when is having an opinion a prerequisite for incompetence? And while I'm at it, since when does being "deep" excuse crap writing and direction? (personal opinion, obviously)
+CyberSurferXD Their fanaticism puts Islamic State and Nazi Germany to shame...
Eh, I'd wager that's most fandoms honestly (see any Death Battle commenters for that)
I love Evangelion. It's a masterpiece and my favorite anime.
Yes but theirs problems with ever
I've heard it said: "How much you like evangelion is inversely proportional to how much you like yourself". Good on you, Bennett.
Congratulations, Sage. You have successfully convinced me NOT to watch this anime.
Thanks for the warning.
This review is bullshit, just thought you should know
Cool
Could've fooled me. Just from the raw footage he's showing I already hate it.
*****
Personally, I'll just skip all the pretentious religious crap and the pseudo-Batman stuff and just watch Sekirei again. That or Skeleton Warriors.
Half of the review was him complaining that it has a realistic 14 year old with depression.
Cool
The question you and I should be asking is: why would we watch that? It's certainly not uplifting, and it's not high-octane cheesy enough to be wish-fulfulliment, and it's certainly not intelligent enough to play with any big ideas.
So sell me the show. Tell me why it's worth my time to watch it.
So I watched this review before I started watching the show. And I too thought Shinji was a lame protagonist. But now that I've seen the show, Shinji is one of the most realistic protagonist I've seen in an anime. Like, his introversion makes so much sense considering his lack of confidence. His neglectful father. Having to fight deadly unpredictable angels. The kid is mentally stressed out and it's completely reasonable.
Evangelion is an anime not for everyone, it's the anime you either love or hate,
Not true, I neither love nor hate it. (though then again I like to both make fun of people who act like it's the second coming while also making jokes about it being '2deep5u")
I hate
Evanglion in a nutshell: Detestable, hollow characters with NO redeeming qualities. Religious symbolism that means NOTHING! Pretentious self-serving nonsense that spins its wheels. In other words, a show about monsters and giant robots that pissed it's promise right down it's leg.
I think it's hilarious that people hate Shinji as much as they do
I don't get it myself just watched it he seems pretty reasonable for a kid in his situation.
Because he is unlikable baby shit
Please at 14 I knew everything wasn’t about me and would buck up and get over being sad about some stupid bull shit
This is amongst early TH-cam videos that have aged poorly, not entirely because of the content of the video, but because the creator changed his opinion on the material he was covering.
That's not something bad
@@videogamesworld01 You’re right and if anything it’s refreshing to see someone on the internet re-evaluate their takes rather than double down and be an asshole about it.
EVA/NGE was the FF7 of anime.
It didn't matter what anyone actually thought about either, because in the end, you either fell in love with it, actively avoided/ignored it, or you grew to despise it and/or its infinitely outspoken fanbase.
I avoided it, and still haven't seen it; though I'm quite familiar with a number of its many, many, MANY derivative (sorry, "inspired") works.
It's strange to me to see so many people defending Shinji being whiney, selfish and uncaring about anyone else because "he's depressed."
Depression doesn't make you a selfish crybaby that doesn't care about other people's lives. How many people have you heard of that killed themselves and the reaction was "But they didn't seem depressed! They seemed so happy and fun loving!"
Shinji didn't need to be portrayed as an annoying little shit to be depressed. If he's an annoying, whiny selfish little turd, it's not depression that made him that way.
"_Evangelion_ started as a monster-of-the-day show..." If you actually believe this, you did not even pay attention to the anime. There are scenes in the _very first episode_ which show that almost all of the show was planned out beforehand: the distant shot of a ghostly Rei, a broken power transformer falling into the water, and the way Misato and Shinji interact.
let me guess, you believe because he hates the show, Sage doesn't understand it.
I personally think he understands it well. The point he tried to make was that NGE started pretty usual compared to it's later half. But that's the point. It shows how this responsibilty can destroy a person, especially an insecure teenager.
I just want everyone to realize something.
You can fact understand all of the plot, symbolism, and references in Evangelion...and still want to beat the writers with a brick for makeing this piece of garbage.
In short...YES I FUCKING UNDERSTAND THE SHOW AND YES I STILL HATE IT!
In other words either you dont understand the psychology, or you only like stories for escapism, that thing Eva is fighting against
Cool What are you talking about? Eva is one of the biggest escapist fantasies of all time.
how so?
Cool It's an emo's ultimate wet dream.
Like Sage said, the fate of the world and all of mankind is at stake. But all of that MUST be put on hold, all so Shinji can have the biggest pity party in Anime.
How is that not escapism? How many whiney little emo's wish that the whole world just had to stop just so they cry about how bad they have it?
Now kid, if you want to talk to me about Anime that are less about escapism and more for gritty realism I'm all for it.
Look at titles like Bepop, Gangsta, FMA, Attack on Titan, Berserk, Big O, Akame Ga Kill, Grave of Fireflies, GTO, Terra Formars, Akira, And probably the best one that I can think of off the top of my head, Trigun.
In fact lets compare.
On one hand you have Vash.
A guy who has arguably been through more shit then any other main character in Anime.
He is constantly:
Being Chased
Being ostracized
Being blamed for things he didn't do
Has an insane murderous brother determined to destroy everything he stands for
Being maimed (just look at his body)
Losing people he loves
And must constantly bare witness death, destruction, and inhumanity.
But what does he do despite all of that?
He acts like a fucking hero.
He:
Tries to save everyone
Maintains a pacifists mindset
Puts everyone else's needs before his own
Tries to cheer everyone up.
Finds the good in a harsh world.
Doesn't kill.
And actually deals with his problems instead of laying it on his entire supporting cast and whining about it like a bitch.
It's realism is in its message. That no matter how bad the world may get, you don't need to mirror it.
And that message is hammered home by how there is no magic button to fix the issues Vash must deal with. There is no easy answer but he always tries to find a way.
And the other hand you have Shinji.
Everyone: Shinji the angels are attacking
Shinji: But my daddy doesn't love me!
E: Shinji your friends are dying
S: But my daddy doesn't love me!!!!
E: Shinji the whole world's gonna end.
S: BUT MY DADDY DOESN'T LOVE ME!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!
Now as shitty of a character Shinji is it would be realistic for a whiney teen to act like that.......IF THE FATE OF HUMANITY WASN'T AT STAKE!!!!!!
Do you get my point yet?
I think you need keep your two cents in your pocket for right now, go to Justdubs and actually watch some good Anime. That way you can get more perspective on how a good Anime tackles realism.
In other words. You merely adopted anime. I was born into it, molded by it. I didn't watch the news until I was already a man, and by then it was mundane.
stoneman472
After episode 9 shinji doesnt run away aside from in the middle of the fight where Toji was in the Eva. Hell at the end of the series he be head Kaworu.
Unless you mean EoE happened a few hours after he killed Kaworu, (the last person he thought gave a shit about him) seeing as he already had depression for a large portion of his life, at that point he's past suicidal.
A good example of an emo escapism character is Kirito from SAO.
Also Attack on Titan was a terrible example of a realistic gritty anime. *insert clip here of people yelling because someone dropped a pencil*
Also I've seen most of those and no I will not support piracy.
I think that the entire conceit that Shinji’s introspective and hesitant nature is taking a back seat to the overall plot of the show to be misguided on three fronts:
One, being the most obvious is the implication that the giant fighting robots were even the main focus of the show to begin with. Barring the handful of episodes (I’d say like, 4 or 5 at most) that are pretty much semi-standard Angel of the Week fare, the show is pretty much focused on introspection on pretty much the whole cast, not just Shinji. We get plenty of episodes dedicated to fleshing our different characters and their own introspective musings, like Misato, Ritsuko, Kaji, Asuka, Gendo, Toji, etc. And even granting your complaint about the overall story taking a backseat to Shinji’s own psychoses, upon rewatching it recently it’s very much not as tedious and prevalent as you seem to make it out to be. Maybe it’s just because of the movie, idk what the process behind this video was, and I’m not gonna presume to. However this does lead nicely into-
Second, I’ve always been confused by the complaint that Shinji is a cowardly brat who has to be cajoled into getting in the robot for every Angel fight, he’s really only like that for the first 4 episodes, and by the time he does get to a point where he starts being hesitant about piloting the EVA it’s much later in the series, and after the knowledge that he unwillingly almost murdered one of his only friends. Shinji is honestly perfectly reasonable until the endgame of the series when literally All The Bad Things happen to him at once, leaving him a broken traumatized shell of a person
And finally, and this is partially just due to a fundamental difference in opinion and perspective, when all is said and done, what /is/ so bad about this? Sure, from the standpoint of someone who isn’t, or has forgotten a point when they were an emotionally vulnerable teenager, Shinji’s more cowardly tendencies seem unreasonable, when set against the stakes of The End of the World.
However, speaking as someone who remembers what that was like, the apocalyptic stakes that are at hand here would probably make me /more/ paralyzed. And that’s not even getting to mention all the shit that happens to him from episodes 16-24 that, again, I think would lead any kid that age into the catatonic, suicidal wreck of a human being that you see in End of Evangelion.
The whole idea of emotional introspection placed in the backdrop of an apocalyptic scenario works like chocolate and peanut butter, because to the depressed teenager, or 20-something, or whatever watching this, it works as a fitting demonstration of retreating from the world falling apart around you, only to find the place you escaped to is just as harmful.
I’ve left some dumb comments on the End of Eva video, that I may have posted in a bit of a blind rage, and I apologize because it just makes me seem like an asshole, but as much as I respect your general work, I find myself coming to disagreements like this in your analyses (is that the plural for analysis? idk) very frequently, and I realize that posting yet another overly long essay yelling at you for Not Liking a thing on a video that’s, at most, half a decade old is really embarrassing but like
Idk, nothing personal to anyone, I just care a lot about this stuff, yknow?
Shinji and Asuka are saints compare to Light Yagmi
Actually, Light Yagami is Asuka times 100.
Maybe so But I still Like Light better than Asuka.
.........
Evangelion
*PTSD flash back commences*
I think Shinji seems like such an unlikeable main character because he is an unlikely hero. So many anime have OP main characters (Asterisk War) that Shinji is a realistic MC.
yeah he's meant to represent the weakness of humanity
+Matthew Cool well, he's not supposed to be likeable so no excuse necessary
That's the great thing about anime - if you can't get into it, that's ok! there are many more shows, like you listed you can watch instead.\
+Matthew Cool "...and if I'm not enjoying something then we have a problem." lol ok dude, relax. No need for an elaborate speech. If you didn't like it, you didn't like it.
+Matthew Cool but actually, the way see it, Evangelion is still character driven regardless if they are likeable or not.
Frankly, I only liked NGE because the fights scenes were pretty damn awesome
I only watched it because I think Asuka is hot.
I mostly liked it for the theme song.
At least it had a great credit scene, because of this Canon in D became one of my favourite piece of classical music.
I admit, as much as EVA has problems (And I admit, it has a tonne of problems), I still like it. Granted, I've only properly watched the Rebuild movies, which from what I've seen make a whole lot more sense and are much easier to watch, but I dunno, I just enjoy it.
That Od to Joy segment at the beginning is just hysterical.
I think to like Evangelion you must have gone through great psychological isolation and then develop great empathy because of it. I can't even think of Asuka without crying. The pain that child experienced is insurmountable. I guess you must have an extremely sensitive heart to love show or else it would just pass off as sheer pretentiousness.
I have went through a lot of psychological isolation in my childhood and pre teens, but I feal like Shinji is still a more reasonable person than Aauka. The way she treats everyone like shit because of her past is not a way a person should vent. I have no sympathy for real life people like her, let alone a fictional character that I'm supposed to be interested in.
@@lordquaz7154 bruhhhh
because that thought is very silly and absurd
@@rafaelyc2639 I honestly forgot that I made my comment, but I still stand by everything I said. I don't like people who use the people around them as punching bags so they could feel better.
That is why I don't like Asuka, because I have encountered a lot of people like her in my life, and while I did feel sympathy for them, I couldn't stand how they treated other people.
@@lordquaz7154 well sorry for digging up that old comment and I respect your thought
is that for liking that character they threatened and harassed me, and I still have that resentment
I mean, first they bothered me because I liked undeveloped characters and then they threatened me for liking developed characters?
it's that they make you want to crash an eva poster in their faces (not you) just like calarmardo crashed the pizza to that fish that rejected spongebob's order
Sorry for the long comment I wanted to vent in this comment
You think the Like/Dislike ratio is bad here... Wait till you see his review of End of Evangelion.
0:48
That just bloody killed me...
+HisHolyMajesty The Emprah has spoken!
+The Chaplain
Bring me Shinji Ikari's head. 10000 years of planning all down the crapper because of him...
+TheMegaUzumaki
Ah, the other traitors have been consumed by cleansing fire. You are to be commended for that.
Still, bring me the willing tool's head...and use whatever means at your disposal to incinerate the remains of that disgusting Xeno hybrid. The technology of the Alien can only ever be used for ill.
HisHolyMajesty Aren't you already dead?
in Gurren Lagann the other incredibly famous gainax anime. Simone is shinji done correctly
Anthony Johnson and he stopped them
***** and he stopped the said apocalypse
***** here's the thing Simon cleaned up his mess and stopped it in time. Shinji panicked and cried too long and when he did try he made things worse by destroying the world and not uniting humanity into a single existence fucking everyone's shit
***** so shinji being the little bitch of his father and others is so much better?
Listen dude i like Evangelion i really do but i prefer Gurren lagann because it set up character Development and followed through with it. I keep expecting Shinji's balls to drop and pull the gainax pose in the hand of either unit 01 or 13 (i wouldn't mind it coming back) but it never happens and i get so frustrated i honestly wish asuka was the main character sometimes and shinji is what keeps Evangelion below Gurren lagann for me.
Its just my opinion sorry. If you like Eva more then gurren more power to you
***** yeah and Simon said fuck you to the apocalypse and anti-spirals and won.
Dude lets just agree to disagree they are both good shows
So.... what's everyone's favorite Angel?
I always liked the fifth angel.
The Rubik's Cube of death!
THE BITCH-MAKER OF MOUNTAINS!!!
RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEL!!!!!!!!!
Also, the music is awesome!
Hi. Zeruel called. He says 'bitch please'.
Fuck yeah, Ramiel is definitely the most badass Angel in Evangelion.
Zeurel is more OP. But the Badassery Award still goes to Ramiel.
***** Pffff...Rami-chan went down in one shot. Zeru-Sempai beat 3 Evas to a pulp and it took the powers of a god to stop him.
Jayfive276 Does Zeruel have a motherfucking choral singing with him wherever he goes? is he so scary he doesn't even have a face? Does his ray make the loudest fucking noise ever? Does he change shape in the air and look like a badass alien gun? Did he ever blow a MOTHERFUCKING MOUNTAIN RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU?
***** No, he was too busy getting right in NERV HQ and almost getting the job done. Whereas Rami-chan spent a couple of days pushing his pink pointed wang through the ground XD
Honestly cowboy bebop expressed loneliness way more accurate than this show
"all anime roads lead the evangelion" i actually never watched evangelion and refuse to see it to this day, soooooooo... -shrug-
It's still really important to anime today
It's like saying you love cyberpunk but refuse to watch BladeRunner
Lord Blue balls never watched blade runner either but i still liked deus ex, both old and new games
I think "all roads lead to Evangelion" is more referring to how everyone in anime knows about it, even if someone hasn't seen it.
BennettTheSage, have you seen Devilman or Devilman Lady? I saw your review of New Cutey Honey, and remembered, Go Nagai wrote and produced both the Manga as well as the Anime series' of Devilman, Devilman Lady, and the movies, such as Amon: Apocalypse of Devilman. i think you could have fun reviewing those.
Sage: ..."Evangelion"
*music plays*
Fuu....uu...u...uk
That was beautiful 😂
People who complain about the uninterrupted long shots miss the point entirely. It’s not a budget thing it’s an artistic choice, the director is confronting you with tension that you literally get no relief from, you are forced into something you cannot look away from like the characters are. This is especially true with shinji killing kaworu. This is the exact moment that breaks shinji entirely its a moment that lasts for a lifetime to him and you are forced to soak in every second just like he is.
I honestly think the reason people don’t have the patience for this kind of thing is because they haven’t explored non American films. American editing since the days of DW Griffith has always been kinetic and fast for the most part. European and Japanese directors however have long used uninterrupted takes for various reasons (eg Kurosawa and especially Ozu love to linger on long shots to emphasize a specific tone/emotion) in American films action dictates emotion however in many non American film emotion is extenuated by stillness
evangelion is still a good anime and the move to :3
Asuka's mother didn't go insane because she encountered an angel. She went insane because the maternal component of her soul became infused with the core of Unit 2.
You actually brought up a point that always rubbed me raw in the series: I always wanted someone to just turn to Asuka, call her on her shit, make her realize she's full of it, then have her shown in the light of someone getting over their shit instead of wallowing in it. It would've made me like the series more. I mean, I can understand it can be hard to write a tragedy, but if you write a tragedy where the people who die are infuriatingly narcissistic and/or annoying, is it really a tragedy? It's the same as with Shinji: she's being just as self-indulgent when *the world is going down in flames* instead of actually feeling the pressure of death like the oncoming train it is. It's like the series tries to cope with issues of mortality and fear of death without understanding how different people with different mindsets and psychological makeups cope with them. Sometimes it seems to hit a little seed of truth, but then it gets buried as soon as one of the main three opens their gob (well, Rei not as much, but she doesn't talk much in general anyway).
You also gave me elevator scene flashbacks. I stopped watching the show because of that scene the first time I saw it; it took me a few years to go back to it because I was curious about how the anime ended. I regretted going back, but it did teach me an important lesson about listening to myself when my mind says 'do not continue watching, nothing entertaining awaits you'.
how dare you my good sir! that crushing scene with bethoven (and the amount of time that it took) was one of the most epic scenes I ever saw.... just the tension that he need to do it vs he want to do it was priceless.. and the time it took is what make so marvelous... just to imagine the struggle he was passing trough as he try to put himself together to kill a friend (and not to mention the struggle to execute him in cold blood as this is not a fighting scene) was epic.
second that scenes on the elevator was about tension in the air (common... did you never fight your girlfriend to the point you both stop speaking but still had to divide the place together? like you want to say something but you to piss (or to proud) to be the first to talk?)
and to be fair the great problem they had with the evas is that synchronization shit.. like if they had a inner struggle they can't operate well or don't operate at all a eva... and as a teenagers they had a lot of shit to resolve (that's why their characters became so important on the show I think)... like as shinji begins to put his shit together he became a better pilot and asuka begins to lose it as her proud cannot withstand not being 1. the best, 2 the center of attention, 3 a pilot (even ending with her suppose suicide)....
but i'm bias as I love evangelion (as evangelion bring me to begin to study philosophy and sociology as a kid)
please.. Can't wait to see you do something about Gundams...
Auska the perfect woman.
Also it doesn’t fucking matter. The whole theme of eva is depression and the original endings point was everyone overcoming depression. I 100% would not be surprised at people overcoming depression after seeing this show. We don’t get enough shows with this message, especially now
Honestly I had been avoiding this anime for the past like... 10 years because I heard it was so full of itself. And now that I finished the series on Netflix including End of. I must say... 3/5. Like I can see why it’s a classic. But I went through it just honestly expecting more. And I just got... strange symbolism and Shinji.
I must say his redub makes him a whole lot more tolerable but he’s still... well not a good character. If the point was to not like him then they won. Asuka was mad annoying throughout the whole thing but by the end of it I understood it. She’s lived a terrible life and just wanted to be praised and be with people who would ultimately care for her. And then got screwed over nearly the worst. I mean the poor girl was eaten alive. I actually felt bad watching that scene.
Rei is eh... Misato I would say is NGE’s best character as she’s the most proactive throughout it. She wants the truth and hell she rather nuke herself and her friends rather then start the third impact(which I didn’t see why it wasn’t an option after Asuka died fighting those faux Eva/Angels.)
Also am I the only won that felt Shinji was secretly (not making fun of him) gay. Like Kaworu was like the only person in the whole show to just connect and bond with Shinji. To the point that Shinji was nearly about to let humanity die so Kaworu could live on. Honestly thinking of him as a closet homosexual kinda made him a ton more tolerable to me.
Anyway the fights are great. Setting is intriguing. But the characters are just... eh.
3/5
Perhaps you should watch the series "Why The End of Evangelion Is a Happy Ending" by
JumpTheShark. There is a lot beneath the surface.
IMO that is a very generous rating and a fair view of the show.
I heard about Eva for decades, finally sitting down to watch it through this year. I was so incredibly disappointed, and more often than not, just plain bored. It felt like such a chore to watch, it was tempting to just fast forward through a lot of it. I was honestly just absolutely shocked. After trudging through the first 12 episodes or so I kept thinking it would get better but it never did. I just sat there, thinking to myself "SERIOUSLY? This?? This is what everyone was losing their minds over? What is so good about it?" I never did find an answer. I think the characters are interesting (the 3 main pilots are children so I actually don't hold their "annoying" attributes against them), but the focus on their individual psychology is entirely divorced from the premise, and the themes have nothing to do with anything. It's as if someone read a few philosophy books and thought it would be fun to clumsily shoehorn those concepts into the story, despite the fact that it has no connection to the story or its world.
The premise is incredibly interesting. The execution is not. It's like the show doesn't know what it wants to be, and it shows in the tone of every episode constantly shifting and the focus going back to immature school-focused kiddish nonsense, then back to grandiose end of the world alien vs robot fighting for the planet scenes. Tonally, and story-wise, it is all over the place and never once engaging or interesting, except for a few glimpses into the characters' backstories.
I originally saw Evangelion over a decade ago. In the end, I hated the series, and I couldn't figure out what the deal was. This past week, I finished a series run-through on Netflix, and I've come to four conclusions:
1. I like Evangelion as whole
2. I don't have a problem with Shinji
3. Asuka, SHUT UP!!!
4. It's End of Evangelion that I hate
I get that's the result of Anno's mental breakdown and death threats (fuck you, "fans"), but really, it's just way too mean-spirited a way to end the series. And yet, I can't imagine it ending any other way.
A final thought: it is indeed correct to say that Shinji should consider the danger to the world as more important than his own internal conflict, in a Prime Directive sort of way ('the needs of the many outweight the needs of the few', including yours, Shinji!). But that has all the problems implicit in any Prime Directive (reality ain't that simple), plus the fact that Shinji, as a human being, thinks of himself first. How many people do you know who would run away from such a responsibility (including, perhaps, yourself) if it hurt them as much as it does Shinji? We don't think of these people as heroes... but they are human. Their motivations are ultimately not different from those of heroes; in both cases, it's not logics that moves them (heroes often do stupid things too), it's... something else. In Shinji's case, obviously not simply self-preservation.
Of course, you're free to dislike these people, and to prefer 'true heroes' in your animēs. Everybody is entitled to the kind of entertainment they like. But again, do not think that those who find Shinji interesting and deep (and full of little insights into why humans do the crazy things they do) are wrong. They aren't. They're just looking at something else, finding their entertainment somewhere else in the show.
Or, if you grew up loving mecha, you'd run full speed to get into that cockpit! I have no idea if I'd be able to recreate the entire world, but I'd sure as hell pilot EVA 1 with gusto
Hmmm... You'd have to have your mother's soul implanted in EVA 1 before that could happen. After all, that is basically the reason why Shinji is able to pilot EVA 1. If that were not the case, then the whole animē would never have happened... (Just imagine what NGE would be like with only Asuka and Rei, but no Shinji. Brr...)
The problem with your statement...is that the entire show works on the principle people with psychological trouble never get psychological treatment despite working for an organization with more funds than some entire fucking nations. Having such attentions for people having the fucking fate of mankind in their shoulders shouldn't be a luxury, so even if it's humanly comprehensible it runs on idiot plot.
And there are more interesting, ACTUALLY DEEP(AKA not just venting the creators clinical depression in a cynical way) yet still likable characters in other anime. Evangelion fucked up because even taking that in count there are STILL problems in the narrative and the massive little detail I mentioned above.
VladNorris If you want to be "realistic", the very idea of fighting inside giant mechas against aliens bent on destroying us is also "idiotic plot" in the sense that this will never happen in reality. If you can accept this "idiotic" premise as somehow non-idiotic... then it doesn't seem so hard to accept the premise of no psychological treatment for the poor EVA children either -- of course, not something any modern institution would do (the army has shrinks, schools have shrinks, the church has shrinks, everybody has shrinks these days) -- but if you're willing to swallow that, then the story becomes quite realistic: how would a depressed child react under these circumstances? I think, just as Shinji did.
Now, if there being no pscyhological help for the EVA children is enough to ruin the plot for you ... so be it. Some of my friends think giant robots are enough to ruin any plot, and that's OK -- they watch other kinds of shows.
I will only point out that I was talking about Shinji, not about how the other characters (including NERV) handled Shinji and the other children. What I said in my post, I believe, remains true, regardless of NERV's idiotic lack of psychological help for the EVA children. You imply Shinji is not ACTUALLY DEEP IN ALL CAPS. I think you're wrong: Shinji is quite deep, quite layered, and quite well-written. If you know better characters in the sense of characters with more layers, more depth, more realism, or better written, please let me know -- but don't confuse that with characters that YOU LIKE BETTER. That's a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THING IN ALL CAPS.
As for plot holes and problems in the narrative -- well, that's true: there are such problems. They're mostly rather minor (with a couple of exceptions) but yes, they're there. To me, that's not so important, because after all the whole premise of why the angels were attacking the earth is sufficiently "strange" to end up being just a metaphor. I don't think the angel-and-tech plot was really important to the authors (not in the sense that it was, say, in Legend of the Galactic Heroes, or even in Gundam). It was always more about how children react under stressful circumstances with no help or support, especially if they already have issues to begin with. And that's fine. Too many series simply assume that 14-year-olds will suddenly become heroes just because they have to. EVA was the one show that made it clear that that's not how 14-year-olds react; that's not how they are.
Watching this one again AFTER the 2-part review of the Re:Build Tetralogy of NGE movies hits a little differently, now knowing what Hidekei Anno was really like, and what went on within GAINAX at the time. It's still funny and insightful, though.
Except Bennett calling Asuka the C-word; that part aged like milk left in the Sun. He could have just easily called her a bitch.
One curious thing about Evangelion (one that you didn't mention, and I wonder what you'd make of it) is that everybody, even its greatest fans, always finds something bad in it. And this going beyond merely admitting that there are some defects in what you like (all animēs are imperfect, everything always has some little boo-boo in it, etc.); it's something way more visceral than that. And that is one exceptional thing about Evangelion: even when you love it, there's something holding you back because it would be... wrong. The show doesn't want you to love it, because it knows it would be... wrong. And that is a funny feeling that no other animē has ever given me.
You're not going to care much, but I'll say it anyway Bennett, Asuka's Mother actually went insane after test piloting Eva Unit-02, not by an Angel.
When did is become cool to say evangelion is bad? There's literally a single person I've ever met that can say they hate it besides edgy kids who want to have a conflicting opinion. Even people I know who don't like anime enjoyed evangelion.
the weird thing is - all of Anno's works are like that? Like, they start out excellent with a setup and nuanced characters and might go somewhere.... and then halfway thru he just goes "fuck it!"
No. Take a look at his first work, GunBuster. You'll see as heart and spirit and love for teh mecha genre only matched by a distant descendant in Gurren Lagann. Anno's work here is so different because he was depressed and people sent him death threats, which is why Rebuild of Evangelion is better since he at least had half of his mind while making that.
The death threats were after Evangelion and during end of eva
I suppose it's worth stating that Sage doesn't make the point that these characters are bad. Instead he hates them. That's a big difference. When you view the characters as children and do away with the trope of 'coming of age' (which is bullshit in reality) I can understand why people like this and say it's more 'real'. Nobody 'comes of age'. For the most part they stay relatively the same. I also find it amusing that a viewer can hate these children so much yet they're the ones saving the world. So if you were in this universe you'd still hate them...even though they're saving your life? Sage made the observation that the anime focuses more on the characters rather than the setting but he ironically does the same thing. Don't get me wrong. Nothing Sage said was incorrect at all, but I find myself in the position of understanding both points of view. I believe it has more to do with an individual's expectations than anything else.
Just in case anyone's wondering I'm not a fan, but I didn't hate it either.
Isn't that kinda like saying that you can't hate the horrible characters Rob Liefeld made, because they are super heroes and are technically superheroes? Characters can still be despicable people or horrendiousnly annoying, even if they do good deeds. Hell. what if we wrote a story where Hitler saves earth from aliens by shooting himself in the bunker while Berlin is under attack. Should we then don't hate him in that story?
But more to the point, these are fictional characters written for entertainment. And as such you can dislike them just fine even if they are good guys. Edward in Twilight might technically be a "good" vampire who supposedly does good deeds, but that doesn't mean i can't hate him. Besides if the characters are neither likeable or entertaining, then people have nothing to grab unto, and as such delving into their weird psychological problems is a bore. Because we care nothing for them.
Well if the majority of the anime focuses on character and not setting. Then it would follow that a review of the anime would also focus on characters and not setting. Why spend a huge amount of explaining stuff that not important to the story that the writer is trying to focus on. Its a personal journey kinda piece, where the plot takes back seat to the characters. Which is way i personally started losing interest in the anime around the halfway point.
10:52 Wow. That segment went on for only 23 seconds and by that time I was already bored out of my skull. That's got to be a new record, Evangelion.
revisiting due to the 2022 review
"I musn't run away!" "I musn't run away!" "I musn't run away!" "I musn't run away!" Why couldn't Shinji repeat, "I musn't be a bitch!" instead?
3 things: first, a lot of screen time of the actual series was devoted to the angel battles, and the fact that you base your critique of the series on the "previously seen on" movie's lack of action is frankly misleading. second, you're certainly not alone in being someone for whom the series was ruined thanks to obnoxious, dysfunctional heroes and heroines- however, when you take your prescriptive approach to "what good entertainment/anime should be" and use that to describe Evangelion as being terrible because of it (I don't care whether you said it or not, someone who's never seen the series would certainly read "terrible" from your review) you honestly present yourself as short-sighted. I was always told that those moments where the camera lingered over silence and lack of movement was at once deliberate and necessary because the show's budget had been slashed to nothing, and with deadlines approaching the crew got, how do you say... creative. The idea that a show that was originally going to be a run-of-the-mill mecha anime, albeit visually impressive, and the show's creators decided to turn the anime into something totally unique seems to have offended you. This is anime as art-for-arts-sake, and not further gratification for fanboys, with whom Anno had become disturbed. In the objectification and hentai-violation of anime characters, Anno was not the only director who had become disturbed by fanservice and its place as a primary concern in anime. third, when your only comment about the long pause before the main character of a series crushes his new best friend to death is "what is up with that scene anyway?" rather than any meaningful reading of the scene, I frankly have little respect for your ability to do more than anime as pop culture, rather than literature or art. I am of the conviction that NGE is as close to high art, postmodernist literature, as any anime has ever gotten. I'm not saying that Evangelion is the best anime ever made just because it worked hard to defy viewer expectations, but that's certainly the reason I loved it. If you would rather have seen another mecha anime where the pilots are confident and steely and whose only troubles are a temporary question of their skill or self-control or their past sins, then go watch Kill la Kill or something. Kill la Kill is certainly a visual marvel, but makes no attempt to take itself seriously in terms of plot or character development, yet contradicts itself by including serious and disturbing themes like totalitarian rule, class discrimination, capitalist domination, surveillance, and even the dangers of artificial intelligence. It brings these serious themes up, even relies on them to develop plot, but makes little effort to provide coherent or developed opinions on these themes. But Otakus generally have their one way of seeing things, and these videos, unlike a proper discussion, are a one-sided ego-stroking session, a masturbatory exercise in how much more this guy knows about anime and pop-culture than you do. Enjoy your internet celebrity friends, your vitamin D deficiency and your moderately inflated bank account, Mr. Neckbeard. If I had no sense of shame, I, too would spend all my time watching TV and recording my thoughts as lectures from Professor Besserwisser.
plasticwrapcharlie thank you so much for putting this into words so brilliantly. Evangelion is a great show, and Bennet doesn't even seem to understand it on a basic level. Your comment is honestly one of the best i've ever seen on here.
mummy boy thanks. I was just really pissed off after watching his review of EoE and this. And to think I initially liked him because he used KMFDM in his intro. I just can't believe his approach to anime can be so one-dimensional, so shallow. He's like the Roger Ebert of anime or something. Go fuck yourself, you know it all. And if you simply decided to troll NGE fans to get more views, then well done you evil genius.
plasticwrapcharlie Those still scenes suck balls. Was that an attempt to be "artsy"? that sucked hard.
bwarrior83 It was the result of severe budget cuts. They had to get creative, and they did a great job considering their budget and time restraints.
mummy boy They were just a waste of time. They could have just cut those scenes and save the money.
I always hated one thing about evangelion: the over-the-top screaming!
Whenever someone gets pummeled, or beats the crap out of an angel, they scream as if they're shitting diarrhetic lava out of their asses!
To be fair, the pilots feel any damage to their Evas.
Shinji felt things like getting shot in the head, having his arms ripped off, ect.
Cool
Well, I guess it's too much to ask from Japan's teenages in the near future to keep it down when they're maimed... but after all, their ancestors were known to slice their bellies open with knives and not even make a sound, so you kinda expect at least some of them to take it like a pro :)
I too really don't like Evangelion, but mainly because of main cast. Shinji, Asuka and Rei are.... I don't have words for them. Sidecharacters are much better, and some of themes are well realized BUT! Fuck me, this show almost destroyed my interest in anime. I am Macross kid, I love Hikaru Ichijyo, he have very similar backstory as Shinji, and look at his character development. Minmay is annoying but not nearly as annoying as Asuka (she is German, not British as many anime characters are, thanks God, I don't want to hate Brits because of her), Rei is... O.K, she never do much, so she never screw much and her backstory is really interesting (whole clonning thing) but then The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya happened and somebody did Rei clone so good, that this clone is much better then original. You know, character development and likability and all that jazz. So, if you are fan of Evangelion, good for you but I am with Sage, this show have good ideas but is so convoluded and unfocused and trying so hard be Kubrick-like that it falls flat on face.
I don't know but for me Gainax itself did themes of Evangelion better in other theyr works, I am not really fan of theyrs but I give them credit, they really know theyr stuff. Yes, Robotech (or Macross as I know it here in Europe) is pretty dumb, very much japanese Star Wars, crossed with Star Trek, full of tropes and awnful English dub, but they did it solidly and really, really memorably. Hell, as a kid I was horrified by death of captain Focker and other supporting characters! And Evangelion have same moments of horror, yes, I like that part of the ending of movie, it is done really good, but than animators took LSD and did that horrible abomination which is the other part of the ending. As I said, Haruhi Suzumiya made me care again about anime, I loved books, I loved series and movie and spin-off series, which was weird because I usually like shows like Cowboy Bebop or Black Lagoon, but when you have really amazingly written, voice-acted (in japanese, obviously), humorous and likable cast, you can get away with pretty weird stuff.
***** I was referring to Nagato Yuki, not Haruhi Suzumiya herself. She was too created for greater purpose, she is too soft-spoken, shut in and has rather strange relationship with main guy. I am not even exaturating, creator of anime series literary mentioned Rei as inspiration for Nagato Yuki, hard to say if Tanigara Nagaru, creator of light novels, has same inspiration but you know, that archetype is pretty common in anime and manga.
Anthony Johnson I compared Minmay and Asuka in theyr annoyingness, theyr role in theyr particular series is different, I know. And there is very similar motive in Macross and NGE, that "coming of age", which is achieved by different means but is there. My point is that NGE have couple of very good episodes (Rei III particulary) but it's mess of moods and limp jokes, when it's serious, I almost like it, when it's trying to be funny, it fell flat. Characters are very important in this kind of stories, and as artist myself, I am François Truffaut's pupil in his "cinema greater than life", so you never impress me with overly realistic characters. Besides, Shinji and Asuka are real extremes and Rei isn't character at all. Macross made an impact, very good impact and I love it, and there is very, very realistic and quite unusual love story in it, NGE annoyed me and don't get me started on that trainwreck The End of Evangelion. They tried so hard to be edgy and clever...
***** I am fanboy of Haruhi Suzumiya, and Haruhi Suzumiya only. Macross was my first anime and I have nostalgia for it.
Anthony Johnson They have cute mascot, just like most anime have. There is stark contrast between Angel battles, EVA plot thread and ordinary school life with every trope you can imagine, I love Misato but she have couple strange moments, and there is my the most glaring complain: How the hell Shinji never changed after he killed so many Angels and fought so many battles? That was my point of comparison with Hikaru, Hikaru changed after his experiences, that is character development, he was different man at the end of series, Shinji wasn't. Why? And by the way, Rei is what I consider "non-character", not Asuka or Shinji, they are extremes but still characters. If you can relate with those, more power to you, I am not attacking your values, I can't relate with those people at all, I can relate with Kyon from Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya really well, because I knew girl like Haruhi and we still have great relationship. You know, maybe because I really, really, REALLY hate Ingmar Bergman movies, and NGE reminds me about them, my view is a bit harsh.
I love the show, but being hated is the best thing it ever did. You could tell the fairly lifeless copy cats from the shows that were passionately created as a complete counterpoint to the last half of Eva, and the counterpoints tended to be really unique and interesting. I think more manga artists were driven to create by an intense hatred of the direction the show veered off on than ever inspired by an unconditional love for it.
Gurren Lagann, right? That show is the antithesis of everything Evangelion is and was.
Can you tell me what shows you're talking about? I'd be interested to watch it.
I don't understand. When did the whiney young teen cliché become a thing? I mean first you got that girl from gunbusters, then it's shinji from Evangelion, and then Leo Stenbuck from Zone of the enders! When did this become a thing? I don't like this cliché one bit at all. Do you think so?
The Anti-feminist agnostic The whiney young teen has been around for a long time, not to long after authors started to use young teens as main characters. The reason being that the idea that a character is or at least feels he is mentally unready for his calling in life is noting new. Think of the old greek stories of the call of adventure or heroism; while some were ready or even eager to head out, others were fearful and ran away from it usually resulting in tragedy. Greeks aren't the first to use the it but the example gives you an idea of how old the father of this cliché is. Admittedly watching those shows makes me want the heavens to end those sad sacks of misery and self defeat quickly with divine retribution in traditional greek style but what's done is done.
The Anti-feminist agnostic The girl from Gunbuster at least became a badass halfway into the OVA series. Shinji's a whiny, irritating and annoying little shit from beginning to end.
Theres also yukiteru from mirai nikki
The Anti-feminist agnostic We need more Kenshiros.
zillafire101 Well, at least we have kenshiro lookalikes.
Okay I know Shinji is “realistic”... but let’s be honest, real people can also be annoying and unlikable. He’s a great character... but he’s an awful person. I despise him.
Also: GET IN THE ROBOT SHINJI!!!!!
TheMegaUzumaki Yeah that’s fair. They are very problematic (then again I think that was Anno’s intention). It’s just that Shinji is the most talked about character.
Also: Idk I just love that phrase XD
I saw this anime when I was younger and it had a lot going for it. Had some interesting themes, symbols, character dynamics etc but it ultimately went Jar Jar Binks on itself. I can't deny that.
I know people say that you need to be "smart" to like it but I scored in the 99th percentile on my ASVAB. I realize that is not clinching proof that I'm smart (hence why that is not the point I will make) but if it escapes me I will simply be skeptical of those who insist one just needs to be smarter to get it.
Its not smarter. You just need to be open to looking inside of things deeply and taking into account how characters act
anal lover I went and rewatched it. I largely disagree with Sage now.
I do get a lot: Asuka, Rei Misato and Shinji are deconstructions of popular anime stereotypes (particularly the first two). Showing how crazy they have to be to be those tropes.
Shinji rejects instrumentality by realizing that human contact brings pain, but that makes them worthwhile.
Seele and Gendo both tried to avoid reality. Gendo by changing it to bring back his wife, Seele by making their wonderland. And by repudiating this, Shinji shows he is more adult than them.
The EVA's are mother metaphors, with the cockpits being womb like. Hence why they all break after Shinji rejects instrumentality.
yada yada.
You dont need to be smart per say, but you have to have knowlegde about pychology, philosophy, religion, to fully take in what Ano tried putting out there. That or the willingness to research it and understand it.
Brandon Messer well anno said the religious stuff just looked cool.
But I rewatched the show and I think I got a good grasp on it now. I enjoyed it a lot more and such.
Shinji rejects instrumentality by realizing human interactions cause pain but that makes them worth while. Every character is antisocial in some way, all the adults try to flee reality in some way.
Asuka loves Shinji but is too fucked up to be affectionate, sort of a joke on the whole tsundere thing.
etc etc
I sort of knew this was what the show was saying at first: individuality is good, become an adult etc etc but I thought it was too opaque when I was younger.
In Super Robot Wars V Shinji got an actual character development and grew some actual balls that he can freely control a berserk Eva and it's fucking awesome
When a video game does a better job to the characters than its anime you know it has problems
You do, however, make some good points...And, in spite of myself, I still like you.
Don't worry, Sage.
You're definitely not the only one who hates "Evangelion".
I think Aska is the REAL reason why I never got into this show. She's just so freakin' obnoxious. I have never been more disgusted by and anime girl's behavior in my life.
Dennis Taylor That's because she was designed this way. She is basically a a critique of American stereotype Japanese believe in. All gung-ho but nothing else. Muscle over brains etc. Trying to be an independent woman and overdoing it in the process. She and Rei are to provide a contrast to each other as both are extremes from the opposite ends of the spectrum. They even bloody colour coded for the audiences convenience, as has red hair and the other blue ones and vice versa when it comes to the eyes.
Kharmazov Isn't she German?
KoalaCyborg5000 IIRC she has Japanese, American as well as German ancestry. And please don't ask me in what proportion;-) Overall each part of her surname is a reference at a WWII aircraft carrier.
I heard about the three animes that you do like, and I won't be surprised if they were actually the only animes you like.
he actually loves anime, trigun, cowboy bebop, ghost in the shell, the big o, besides a lot of others anime bennet has said that he love, he hates evangelion because its so overrated.
Renzo Fideli Sancho the franchise is overrated, EoE isn't. The subtlety, the characters, the message, the realist yet optimistic tone of the movie. Everything in this movie is just a masterful artwork crafted by a guy who hit his lowest low but came back as a new man. Too bad he made the Rebuilds because those movies is a middle finger to the original series.
There is funny and there is stupid. This is stupid!
The sage thinks ghost in the shell and evangelion don’t make sense. I’m sensing a pattern here...
I like this review (and most of your reviews), it's reasonable. But not the EOE review, at that review you release your hate directly from your bowels.
My brothers: have you ever talked to girls?
Me: have you ever asked a psychopathic serial killer to stop killing people?