38:52. I’m pretty sure the Marines are ‘In the Open’ because the Japanese are within 4 of the edge of the Jungle. Kinda like shooting from a hedge. I could be wrong though
Check Your Leader TV also turns out the marines illegally took the red dice. They only had two support units and need a minimum of three to take the red dice.
Nice looking games as always. Vehicles weapon positions can indeed go on Overwatch, page 52, 11.7 talks about it. Not keen on the 3 Command Initiative points for junior leaders, u in effect have 5 senior leaders. Since the vast majority of the games see the squad operating together I would think a superior junior leader would better reflect the better leadership. Or if your games routinely see all three teams split up, have a special rule for JL’s such as “ If a JL spends all his Command Initiative points, he can activate all his teams that are in command range.”
The reasoning behind the 3 CIs per JL is explained in the campaign notes. I had tried SJLs and ISLs but the only thing that gives is that SJLs activate on a 3 or a 4, but they still have 2 CIs (not enough for a 3 team squad). ISLs can command anything in the platoon but only have 2 CIs too. A Marine squad acted almost as a mini-platoon with the Fire Team leaders acting as lesser JLs. The problem is how to reflect that within CoC. I tried a number of things like allowing FT leaders to activate with 1 CI on a command die roll of 1, allowing autonomous fire teams to be created during the game, and treating the squad as a single element that can split off teams like scouts. The latter was probably my favourite but needed tweaking to deal with fire teams that were equipped with Bazookas, Flamethrowers, satchel charges and so on. Too much tweaking generating too much text, which is fine if you can answer questions and explain in a club environment but not via social media. The 3CI JLs are the simplest most effective tweak to make the marine squad work (IMHO). Ok it's 3 CIs but the JL can only spend it on the squad and he usually has his hands full. Incidentally the JL still has 2 wounds and costs 8 points in the CoCulator - just one less than a SL.
Not sure why Travis didn’t open up with the squad in the building while the Marines were in the open. The building is hard cover, and the squad could have put a hurting on the Marines coming out of the hut. The APC would still have made it around the building, but Andre would certainly have had a couple of BTH rolls from the fire. If nothing else the fire from the building might have slowed the advance. I’m liking the Pacific theater battles guys - nice change!!
Jim Johnson the 50 cals. That and the squad and the 75mm LVT could have killed that squad by itself ok that building. I needed my entire platoon in the building to make that work.
Another fun game report, but I spotted a pretty big (in effect) mistake that you guys made - the "red die" needs to be a different colour to the rest of the command dice as only results of 1-4 count (5 and 6 are ignored). That might have cancelled some of Andre's double phases/turn ends and CoC points and would almost certainly have affected the outcome of this game.
Tabletop CP True,.. but the marines are effectively in the open so that can hurt. And being in a house limits the ability of the Marines to return fire at any Japanese infantry
Monday morning quarterback but the Japanese shouldn't have deployed *anything* until the enemy committed forces forward. Concentration of fire is everything. Then, late in the game on a double phase, it's *tank time*.
Did you take of the 2" movement on the LTV 4 for the 2 shock? The 2 shock is on the vehicle not the passengers - just wanted to note that fore a forgot - am enjoying the game despite the Marines endless double turns :) I also empathise with your failed attempts to drive off the LTV 4 (A) with MG fire but could you have not just lobbed a couple of grenades into the big open back of the beast?
Also moving the tank around and shooting the LTV in the rear might have been a better use of those 3''s rather than trying to drive it off? Also on 2's you could have run the infantry forwards forcing the LTV close to your LOS from the tank. hindsight is always 20/20 tho :)
John Mumford we didn’t reduce the movement for the LVT for the shock. I could have thrown a grenade but that was all I could do. The squad is one big team not two teams so it was one of the other. The knee mortar squad was too beat up.
@@tabletopcp Yup was thinking that 2" might have got you another shot at its side - mind you with your die rolls! BTW It is one grenade per CI spent - so each of the first 2 3's would have got you 2 throws, regardless of numbers of men or shock, normally the problem is getting a high enough die roll to reach the vehicle (-4 for open topped vehicles) but when it is that close it is almost an auto hit - one for next time?
It seems slightly odd that an open top APC such as the LVT is not more vulnerable to close assault by infantry - given that historically the USMC were very wary of Japanese infantry close assaults on such vehicles especially as the cfrew and passengers were so vulnerable
@@StuartMcDermid yes grenade attack but not close assault, and given that there's a -4 for each grenade attack vs an Open top vehicle, the probability of success doesn't seem to match with the historical record of Open Top vehicles in the pacific campaign. Coupled withe minimum distance of 4" for throwing grenades, that's requiring a minimum of an 8 versus the LVT with a very large open troop compartment. This also means that driving an LVT right up to a defending infantry ie less than 4" effectively makes them invulnerable - that definitely does not mesh with the historical record and US usage of LVts on land
@@panzerschreckpete that's on 2D6 per grenade and when throwing into a vehicle or other hard target, the minimum of four inches is waived. So at under an inch, you'd need 4s and even as far as 2 inches away, you'd still only need 6s. At one grenade per CI, you are looking at a max of 3 so that's likely to be two hits * 3 per grenade = 6 total hits with a possibility of 9. Pretty good bet if you ask me.
It would seem common sense that the 4" minimum is waived but I cannot see where that waiver is stated unless it is where it is concerning heavy cover - but thatis sperate from throwing grenades vs a vehicle as target which is what is required as you cannot target the passengers unless a sniper
@@panzerschreckpete Yes p. 40 refers to heavy cover or better. The men in the LTV are in bullet proof cover. I suspect this rule is designed to reflect the fact you would only use the greande at very close range if there was cover between the explosion and the thrower to protect him. I think a AFV body would count for this rule.
38:52. I’m pretty sure the Marines are ‘In the Open’ because the Japanese are within 4 of the edge of the Jungle. Kinda like shooting from a hedge. I could be wrong though
Rough go for the Japanese. As always an entertaining battle report.
At the 19 min mark TWO LVTs deployed. Only 1 AFV per phase is permitted to deploy.
It’s a mistake I often do myself
The Japanese were desperately unlucky. But the Marines made the best of their luck and that’s what wins battles
Check Your Leader TV also turns out the marines illegally took the red dice. They only had two support units and need a minimum of three to take the red dice.
Nice looking games as always. Vehicles weapon positions can indeed go on Overwatch, page 52, 11.7 talks about it. Not keen on the 3 Command Initiative points for junior leaders, u in effect have 5 senior leaders. Since the vast majority of the games see the squad operating together I would think a superior junior leader would better reflect the better leadership. Or if your games routinely see all three teams split up, have a special rule for JL’s such as “ If a JL spends all his Command Initiative points, he can activate all his teams that are in command range.”
The reasoning behind the 3 CIs per JL is explained in the campaign notes. I had tried SJLs and ISLs but the only thing that gives is that SJLs activate on a 3 or a 4, but they still have 2 CIs (not enough for a 3 team squad). ISLs can command anything in the platoon but only have 2 CIs too. A Marine squad acted almost as a mini-platoon with the Fire Team leaders acting as lesser JLs. The problem is how to reflect that within CoC. I tried a number of things like allowing FT leaders to activate with 1 CI on a command die roll of 1, allowing autonomous fire teams to be created during the game, and treating the squad as a single element that can split off teams like scouts. The latter was probably my favourite but needed tweaking to deal with fire teams that were equipped with Bazookas, Flamethrowers, satchel charges and so on. Too much tweaking generating too much text, which is fine if you can answer questions and explain in a club environment but not via social media. The 3CI JLs are the simplest most effective tweak to make the marine squad work (IMHO). Ok it's 3 CIs but the JL can only spend it on the squad and he usually has his hands full. Incidentally the JL still has 2 wounds and costs 8 points in the CoCulator - just one less than a SL.
Not sure why Travis didn’t open up with the squad in the building while the Marines were in the open. The building is hard cover, and the squad could have put a hurting on the Marines coming out of the hut. The APC would still have made it around the building, but Andre would certainly have had a couple of BTH rolls from the fire. If nothing else the fire from the building might have slowed the advance.
I’m liking the Pacific theater battles guys - nice change!!
Jim Johnson the 50 cals. That and the squad and the 75mm LVT could have killed that squad by itself ok that building. I needed my entire platoon in the building to make that work.
Another fun game report, but I spotted a pretty big (in effect) mistake that you guys made - the "red die" needs to be a different colour to the rest of the command dice as only results of 1-4 count (5 and 6 are ignored). That might have cancelled some of Andre's double phases/turn ends and CoC points and would almost certainly have affected the outcome of this game.
Andre rolled it as the same type only once. Other times it was a different dice type, although similar in colour.
@@fafhrdofnehwon6626 Ahhh, they looked the same throughout the video. That was some damned freaky dice rolling he had then!
TamsinP yeah it elwad a grey colored dice. We did remember to not use it for double phases although that didn’t help much lol
Great as always, but...more Sharp Practice! Or SPQR at least ;)
Really thought Travis would bug out once the LVT got round behind the backstop as the game was up once Andre started hosing those chaps down??
Nick Jennings I would have but one of my squads and my SL were trapped in the building with nowhere to go.
Yeah I know but your losses were building up and your tank might as well have been throwing beanbags it was so ineffective! 😂😂
Nick Jennings I had to try and save Tanaka!
As soon as that USMC squad moved into that hut I thought: “that Jap tank will light those suckers up”!
It did a little bit the tank isn’t exactly bristling with firepower to wipe out a giant squad
Tabletop CP
True,.. but the marines are effectively in the open so that can hurt. And being in a house limits the ability of the Marines to return fire at any Japanese infantry
Monday morning quarterback but the Japanese shouldn't have deployed *anything* until the enemy committed forces forward. Concentration of fire is everything. Then, late in the game on a double phase, it's *tank time*.
Which was the red dice? They all look the same so how did you know which was red and its 5 & 6 don’t count?
It was the bigger green one. Hard to see on camera but we could tell
Did you take of the 2" movement on the LTV 4 for the 2 shock? The 2 shock is on the vehicle not the passengers - just wanted to note that fore a forgot - am enjoying the game despite the Marines endless double turns :) I also empathise with your failed attempts to drive off the LTV 4 (A) with MG fire but could you have not just lobbed a couple of grenades into the big open back of the beast?
Also moving the tank around and shooting the LTV in the rear might have been a better use of those 3''s rather than trying to drive it off? Also on 2's you could have run the infantry forwards forcing the LTV close to your LOS from the tank. hindsight is always 20/20 tho :)
John Mumford we didn’t reduce the movement for the LVT for the shock. I could have thrown a grenade but that was all I could do. The squad is one big team not two teams so it was one of the other. The knee mortar squad was too beat up.
@@tabletopcp Yup was thinking that 2" might have got you another shot at its side - mind you with your die rolls! BTW It is one grenade per CI spent - so each of the first 2 3's would have got you 2 throws, regardless of numbers of men or shock, normally the problem is getting a high enough die roll to reach the vehicle (-4 for open topped vehicles) but when it is that close it is almost an auto hit - one for next time?
It seems slightly odd that an open top APC such as the LVT is not more vulnerable to close assault by infantry - given that historically the USMC were very wary of Japanese infantry close assaults on such vehicles especially as the cfrew and passengers were so vulnerable
It actually is. He could have lobbed grenades in straight over the top. Open topped vehicles are pretty vulnerable to grenade attack in the rules.
@@StuartMcDermid yes grenade attack but not close assault, and given that there's a -4 for each grenade attack vs an Open top vehicle, the probability of success doesn't seem to match with the historical record of Open Top vehicles in the pacific campaign. Coupled withe minimum distance of 4" for throwing grenades, that's requiring a minimum of an 8 versus the LVT with a very large open troop compartment. This also means that driving an LVT right up to a defending infantry ie less than 4" effectively makes them invulnerable - that definitely does not mesh with the historical record and US usage of LVts on land
@@panzerschreckpete that's on 2D6 per grenade and when throwing into a vehicle or other hard target, the minimum of four inches is waived. So at under an inch, you'd need 4s and even as far as 2 inches away, you'd still only need 6s. At one grenade per CI, you are looking at a max of 3 so that's likely to be two hits * 3 per grenade = 6 total hits with a possibility of 9. Pretty good bet if you ask me.
It would seem common sense that the 4" minimum is waived but I cannot see where that waiver is stated unless it is where it is concerning heavy cover - but thatis sperate from throwing grenades vs a vehicle as target which is what is required as you cannot target the passengers unless a sniper
@@panzerschreckpete Yes p. 40 refers to heavy cover or better. The men in the LTV are in bullet proof cover. I suspect this rule is designed to reflect the fact you would only use the greande at very close range if there was cover between the explosion and the thrower to protect him. I think a AFV body would count for this rule.
At 1hr and 4 seconds. You rolled a 2. Why not rush out of the building and HtH the marines near the building? 🤔You might KO a Snr Leader😄
Mainly because it would hurt me as much as him and I may have lost my senior leader 😄
Some odd rolls in this one.