bro thats a such an intellingent aproach to looking at things, i am very impressed! I usually never bother to write comments on youtube videos but your channel deserves more subs and exposure so i instantly subbed as well. Great work keep it up my friend!
I remember getting an old book on weightlifting from my uncle as a teen getting into exercising. It was from the mid-70s, and I still have it in my bookshelf. They give a similar guideline: A good goal for an ambitious amateur is height in cm -100 = weight in kg. My guess is that their assumption of leanness was less stringent than yours (or of today) and would probably be "flat stomach but not necessarily visible abs". Just goes to show that this idea has been around for a long time.
Great video Abel! Really useful info! I think (height-100) and closer to 10% is more realistic from what I've seen. If you look at the guys that are under you calculations they either have massively underdeveloped legs, or don't look very advanced in the first place. What I wonder is, is it because of them having "bad genetics" or just improper training and nutrition?
I agree with @Boris that legs are a serious factor here. A lot of pictures didn't show leg development. For example, if one doesn't train the glutes directly, that could be a whole kilo of muscle they never build
I’ve been saying for a while that my genetics are good but not amazing, and this video reaffirms that. I’m 0-8kg above your predictions depending on where I am on the 9-15% body fat “beach lean” spectrum. Casey Butt’s model also tells me I’m about 10kg off of my genetic potential, but there’s no way that’s happening naturally.
Excellent video and info, as always. Thank you, Abel. For someone who has a ~5 year training history and has built a decent amount of muscle, but has never initially massed and has been mostly permacutting / falling off the wagon and ballooning up weight quickly, how much potential do you think remains for muscle gain?
Agree. Thats me for the record. i didnt train legs for det first 5 or 6 years due to football and I hated it. So my lower body is definitely underdeveloped!
Great video! It will be interesting if you make video like this on not that advanced lifter (someone with less experience) and predict how muscular they can get. (We will wait for the results in few and see if you got it right :D )
Here's my example, i am 190cm of height , very thin bones, wrist and ankle . For example 90kg for me in a lean state is not very possible, i had 90kg once and probably around 17-18% bf. Hell, even when i'm around 80kg i can barely see my abs and i almost have that death face .. Shitty genetics i guess.
Casey butt has 3 different formulas actually. If you read the book, there's one for genetic elite, average, and less then average. You should try the lower one.
Right on about the formula tweaking, for us natties at least, height -100 = beach condition. Comfortable decent lean athletic looking body, yet still still 4-5kg away from starting to shred.
Damn, you forgot my email or something. Wanted my spot of fame in your video haha. As you said BW doesn't tell the whole story because of muscle bellies and just overall bone shape
What about bone density? I've seen some guys my height that are no way near as muscular but they weigh almost the same...On the other hand, some guys have as much muscle or more than me yet they weigh less...hmmmm
Interesting video! Don’t know how accurate this is though. I’m ~18% bf and if i take pictures with a pump and good lighting i look beach lean for sure. I weigh 89kg and I’m 179cm so that would make me a +10kg outlier. But im not freaky or anything.
@@ssdabel i know lol, tbh it just gives me motivation to work harder. like every physique in this video is close to my ideal physique, so knowing that i might be able to get there one day gives me motivation
What people need to do is just lift consistently with intent and do so in an enjoyable way. All this FFMI and genetic talk is a total waste of energy for everyone lol.
Agreed, there is no point in stressing over genetics but it is actually interesting to see some "case studies" and have a goal weight to shoot for. When I was beginning I tought it was realistic for me to be 95-100kg lean at 180cm height, and that led to me bulking waay past any reasonable weight or bf%.
It always comes back to perspective - for many people its indeed a waste of time but for many its actually refreshing to hear bc they have very low expectations
With all due respect i think thats bull, there is no "Muscular Potential". I think that when someone get muscular and lean enough they are afraid to start eating calorie dense foods and get chubby and even more muscular, because they know what pain in the ass is to diet down the excess fat. It's about eating more calories. There is a reason why there is 200kg strongmen right now - they are not afaraid to eat big!
200 kg strongmen are often either very tall or very fat or they take anabolics, or all of the above. Eating enough calories is important for sure, but I hope you're not suggesting that you could get infinitely bigger if you just ate more
@@ssdabel I am suggesting that you can get very, very big. Gaining weight is obviously possible, the evidence is all those massive obese persons in the states. There are also as i mentioned very large strongmen. When you add high calories + heavy exercise + time you get bigger. If you want to also be lean, then the process become slower, but you can definitely grow very big.
@@johngold5772 I really don't mean to burst your bubble, but no, high calories beyond a certain point will just make you fat. The dreamer-bulking culture was really big before, the previous natural lifter generation did that all the time. They all got super fat a few times, and you don't see them walking around with 26+ FFMIs.
@@ssdabel I am training and eating to become 120kg (i am now 116) with flat stomach, not taking drugs or supplements, just food and smart (not hard) training. If i was on your opinion i would have stop long ago.
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Yo thanks for the shout out. Super cool to be part of this!
Thanks for contributing!:)
bro thats a such an intellingent aproach to looking at things, i am very impressed! I usually never bother to write comments on youtube videos but your channel deserves more subs and exposure so i instantly subbed as well. Great work keep it up my friend!
Thanks a ton man! 🙏🙏
I remember getting an old book on weightlifting from my uncle as a teen getting into exercising. It was from the mid-70s, and I still have it in my bookshelf. They give a similar guideline: A good goal for an ambitious amateur is height in cm -100 = weight in kg. My guess is that their assumption of leanness was less stringent than yours (or of today) and would probably be "flat stomach but not necessarily visible abs". Just goes to show that this idea has been around for a long time.
This channel def deservers more suscriptoresss. Greetings from argentina
Thank you!🙏
Hey Abel thanks for including me! Lots of good information in here.
thanks brother
Excellent video. This content is the type I love. Original material.
Glad to hear!
Great video Abel! Really useful info! I think (height-100) and closer to 10% is more realistic from what I've seen. If you look at the guys that are under you calculations they either have massively underdeveloped legs, or don't look very advanced in the first place.
What I wonder is, is it because of them having "bad genetics" or just improper training and nutrition?
probably often something was off with training or nutrition, at least thats my best guess indeed
I agree with @Boris that legs are a serious factor here. A lot of pictures didn't show leg development. For example, if one doesn't train the glutes directly, that could be a whole kilo of muscle they never build
@@darkerisbetter8699 true, true
One more case study: I am 176cm 73kg with around 12% bf (veins and six pack visible). So yes, I totally agree with your formula.
I’ve been saying for a while that my genetics are good but not amazing, and this video reaffirms that. I’m 0-8kg above your predictions depending on where I am on the 9-15% body fat “beach lean” spectrum. Casey Butt’s model also tells me I’m about 10kg off of my genetic potential, but there’s no way that’s happening naturally.
Excellent video and info, as always. Thank you, Abel.
For someone who has a ~5 year training history and has built a decent amount of muscle, but has never initially massed and has been mostly permacutting / falling off the wagon and ballooning up weight quickly, how much potential do you think remains for muscle gain?
Hard to tell obviously, but it could be surprisingly lot. I gained a pretty decent amount after 5 years, at least 3-4 kgs (now in year 9)
16:30 I think it can be due to his legs. They're a bit undeveloped in comparison with his upper body
Agree. Thats me for the record. i didnt train legs for det first 5 or 6 years due to football and I hated it. So my lower body is definitely underdeveloped!
Great video! It will be interesting if you make video like this on not that advanced lifter (someone with less experience) and predict how muscular they can get. (We will wait for the results in few and see if you got it right :D )
Haha nah man that would be way too speculative and unfair even
i wonder what the ffmi was of ronnie coleman and kai greene when they were at their natty peak.
I am honestly wondering what might be the difference between bone mass in individuals with similar amount of muscle mass
would be interesting to find out fo sho
Here's my example, i am 190cm of height , very thin bones, wrist and ankle . For example 90kg for me in a lean state is not very possible, i had 90kg once and probably around 17-18% bf. Hell, even when i'm around 80kg i can barely see my abs and i almost have that death face .. Shitty genetics i guess.
This was really informative! Any idea if a similar metric can be applied to females?
Casey butt has 3 different formulas actually. If you read the book, there's one for genetic elite, average, and less then average. You should try the lower one.
thank you, didnt read the book admittedly
Right on about the formula tweaking, for us natties at least, height -100 = beach condition.
Comfortable decent lean athletic looking body, yet still still 4-5kg away from starting to shred.
@ssd Abel, on this profile pic, I’m 1.82m, 82 kg. Is the formula correct in my case too?
I'd say so 👌
@@ssdabel keep up the great content!
Are all examples you gave of life-time naturals?
Yep
Damn, you forgot my email or something. Wanted my spot of fame in your video haha.
As you said BW doesn't tell the whole story because of muscle bellies and just overall bone shape
Oh sorry man - we tinkered for so long that I ended up missing it :(
Your formula put me ( 5'11" ) at having a max potential of 177lb lean , but i am currently 190lb at 8% bodyfat
then you're way above average :)
What about bone density? I've seen some guys my height that are no way near as muscular but they weigh almost the same...On the other hand, some guys have as much muscle or more than me yet they weigh less...hmmmm
Definitely plays a role but again we only see huge deviations in that rarely
Awesome video, according to your video I have around 8 lbs to gain if you mean 10 percent bf to be beach lean.
Thank u! In my mind 9-15% could qualify as beach lean but bf distribution plays a factor for sure.
Interesting video! Don’t know how accurate this is though. I’m ~18% bf and if i take pictures with a pump and good lighting i look beach lean for sure. I weigh 89kg and I’m 179cm so that would make me a +10kg outlier. But im not freaky or anything.
obviously its gonna be off for some. If you have great bodyfat distribution you can look great close to 20% too, which is going to skew results a bit
you were right i didn't like the results lol - currently 187 trying to drop to 175 but may have to get closer to 160
hope wasn't too bad though! :D
@@ssdabel well see, I like to think I have better than average genetics
Can we still send pics, or is this video the end of it?
End of it for now
What about women? I'm 5'10"...129lbs. Thank you!
In theory you could be around 78 kg or 171 lbs at a pretty lean (20%) physique
@@ssdabel oh my....putting on 40 lbs of muscle would be tough! Thank you tho...
@@tawnipargman8237 you never know until you try :)
Average(ish) 😂 try and say that 10 times in a row fast 😂
Algo
here's me watching this with bottom of the barrel genetics😬
hey dont be too quick to say
You can look very good even with bad genetics
@@ssdabel i know lol, tbh it just gives me motivation to work harder. like every physique in this video is close to my ideal physique, so knowing that i might be able to get there one day gives me motivation
What people need to do is just lift consistently with intent and do so in an enjoyable way. All this FFMI and genetic talk is a total waste of energy for everyone lol.
Agreed, there is no point in stressing over genetics but it is actually interesting to see some "case studies" and have a goal weight to shoot for. When I was beginning I tought it was realistic for me to be 95-100kg lean at 180cm height, and that led to me bulking waay past any reasonable weight or bf%.
It always comes back to perspective - for many people its indeed a waste of time but for many its actually refreshing to hear bc they have very low expectations
With all due respect i think thats bull, there is no "Muscular Potential". I think that when someone get muscular and lean enough they are afraid to start eating calorie dense foods and get chubby and even more muscular, because they know what pain in the ass is to diet down the excess fat. It's about eating more calories. There is a reason why there is 200kg strongmen right now - they are not afaraid to eat big!
200 kg strongmen are often either very tall or very fat or they take anabolics, or all of the above. Eating enough calories is important for sure, but I hope you're not suggesting that you could get infinitely bigger if you just ate more
@@ssdabel I am suggesting that you can get very, very big. Gaining weight is obviously possible, the evidence is all those massive obese persons in the states. There are also as i mentioned very large strongmen. When you add high calories + heavy exercise + time you get bigger. If you want to also be lean, then the process become slower, but you can definitely grow very big.
@@johngold5772 I really don't mean to burst your bubble, but no, high calories beyond a certain point will just make you fat. The dreamer-bulking culture was really big before, the previous natural lifter generation did that all the time. They all got super fat a few times, and you don't see them walking around with 26+ FFMIs.
@@ssdabel I am training and eating to become 120kg (i am now 116) with flat stomach, not taking drugs or supplements, just food and smart (not hard) training. If i was on your opinion i would have stop long ago.
@@johngold5772 good luck, and for you it might work out. Don't know your history, genetics, etc