The Greatest Film Never Made ? | The Thief and the Cobbler
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ย. 2024
- Williams Journey to finish his magnum opus, a story of obsession, dedication and Tragedy.
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Referencing
Persistence of Vision (2012)
Creative Person Richard Williams
TV Richard Williams interview
Little Island (1953)
A Christmas carol
The Charge of the Light Brigade (1968)
The thief that never gave up
Countless Ads that can be found on the Thief Archive Channel
Who framed Roger Rabbit (1988)
Thief and the Cobbler (1993)
Arabian Knight (1995)
Aladdin (1992)
Sopranos (1999)
Buckaroo Banzai (1984)
Futurama (1999)
Twin Peaks (1990)
Samurai Jack (2001)
Shenmue (1999)
The Hobbit (1978)
Richard Williams BFI The Thief and the Cobbler: A Moment in time (2014)
The Prologue (2015)
Return of the Pink Panther (1975)
Sebastian (1968)
Space Jam (1995)
A Thousand and One Nights (1969 )
The Re-cobbled Cut Mark 4
• Richard Williams discu...
• Going Live Interviews ...
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www.oscars.org/...
/ thethiefarchive
mentalfloss.com...
groups.google....
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www.theatlanti...
mobile.nytimes...
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#thethiefandthecobbler #richardwilliams #therecobbledcut
RIP Richard Williams :(
Well, you still remember me as Herman111 from last year? I hate to say this but I found out that he died. He's with Stan Lee and Stephen Hillenburg sitting on the clouds of peacefulness.
*"I am your number one fan"* That's what I said.
Gosh!! I cannot believe one of the greatest animators of all time is dead. He'll never be forgotten. Rest in peace Richard Williams!!!! :'(
I feel so bad, trying to make a movie for 30 years and to get kicked out. That’s just considered depression!! But at least it was finished
Yeah I agree!! It's not just that, but it also reminds me for when I used to many too many unfinished movies back in 2015! I haven't documented them yet, but as I can tell, I remembered making over 20 unfinished/unplanned movies, which is very annoying. But to be honest... what a huge shame that a creator got kicked out of his own project!! So shocking!!!! :O
I still stand by The Thief and the Cobbler being the absolute peak of animation. The fact Williams was shafted out of his own magnum opus is an absolute travesty.
Technically as far as animating on 1s (for the most part) it's up there.
I'm not sure if I'd call it the best of the best in terms of only animation. I'd want to see far more animated features before that but there are some of the best sequences I've ever seen within it, at least in the first half and the colour palette is fantastic
Most Vertical Productions I get what you’re saying but Williams broke contracts, went overbudget and didn’t respect deadlines multiple times during the 25 year production. You can’t expect producers and studios to just throw him the money under no condition. After Roger Rabbit, Warner Brothers gave him $50 million and 3 years to finish the movie, a movie that was being made for more than 2 decades already. Williams had his underpaid team working 60 hours per week, fired a lot of people and made no significant progress. Warner Brothers was already spending money promoting the movie and Williams knew that if he didn’t finish on the deadline, he would lose control of the project. Is it the studio’s fault that Williams took the money but was not respecting the terms of the contract he signed? He made the same mistake before with two other producers but he was gambling a lot of money with Warner and suffered the fatal consequences.
If Williams wanted to make this at his own pace, he should’ve financed the project himself, even if it took another 10 years to complete, instead of carelessly risking his passion project.
Sorry but this animation sucks
@@pony7653 He actually did for the first couple of decades, but I think he realised that if he wanted to make it even better, and get it done quicker he would need some help. He used whatever money he made from doing commercials, title sequences etc. to help fund the feature. The first person to come forward with interest in funding it was an actual Saudi Arabian Prince.
@@curtmarch9294 you know nothing of true animation and beauty
Can I just say that the thumbnail for this video is absolutely adorable? Am I the only Tack lover?
Recobbled Cobbler i literally only watched this part by prt for him. I just like his little no speak and pale face
ngl, I never knew what this movie was but I remember seeing it on movie channel when I was flipping channels and I absolutely loved Tac. He was so adorable, and aside from the interesting art style sparking my curiosity, I remember I kept watching because I wanted to see more of that character.
2D's blue-ty shorts His design just... amazed me.
I saw you type this same thing on a different channel.
Of course Andy is your pfp
i saw this in theaters with my friend's entire birthday party, like 8 kids and a mom or two. in the theatrical cut, when the thief was stealing the the golden spheres off the roof, he says like 'with this one, im getting a private island' and 'with this one, im getting a small country' or something. then he picks up the BIGGEST one and says 'with this one. ohhoho. im going to disneyland, baby!' which i mean i cant remember ever laughing so hard in my life.
You saw the Miramax cut.
@@ZiddersRooFurry The best cut
@@Sonicsgirl13 no
Sonicsgirl13 no❤️
I LOVED Jonathan Winters as the Thief. I know it came from the Miramax cut but he was truly my favorite in that entire movie.
The recobbled cut is still a masterpiece though.
Did you make a joke? You said "reCOBBLEd." An accident or are you being clever? Hmmmmmmmmmm?
@@dinkmartini3236 it's actually the title of the fan made polished version (but not all of it is polished)
@@MaJeeDooo0010 but there is probably a mark 5 ver where some of the rough animation will be fully animated .
Personally I can appreciate the pioneering work of pseudo camerawork by hand, like wow it's like nothing I've ever seen, even in CGI..
That said the constant inputs of various unfinished storyboards, in progress animations etc is HIGHLY jarring for me and largely ruins it for me.
@@GreenTimeEagle what are you talking about?
I have a weird history with this movie myself. Before I even knew it existed, I had memories of this bizarre film I seemed to have watched as a very young child but just couldn't remember. The most prominent ones were of golden balls being reflected in a green character's eyes and that same character going up some crumbling stairs against a dark background. After a lot of research, I finally found the movie, and sure enough, those scenes were there (both featured the Thief), but the rest that I remembered seeing were either very different from the actual ones or completely fabricated. Memory is a strange thing.
Also, I just can't imagine having a passion project of over 30 years being taken away from me right before its completion and then essentially transformed into a ripoff. Williams and his team deserved better.
They did but that's the business it doesn't respect creative talent although one could argue that Williams was irresponsible with the production and schedule, so it was only a matter of time
I’ve had the ex’s act same experience, I don’t know where I saw the film, but i know I was really little when I did
@Martha G. @@Stevem once again humanity disappoints me, showing its true repulsive colors of greed and avarice. will it ever change? I don't know. all I know is that im atleast gunna try with the little power I have in my own life, I suggest we all do our part. especially in the name of people like these who fall victim to the cruelty of corporate
Same! I had odd memories of it that resurfaced when I was in high school. I did a lot of research and came across its extensive history. This was like early 2005, such a long time ago.
I also remember watching this as a small kid. My mom often found wierd Disney knock offs to show us at the library and I know I watched this before the age of ten, but all memories are hazy and disconnected
The fact that the cobbler says only one line in the entire movie was really impressive to me. Idk, I've never experienced the feeling I had when the character finally spoke. This set the movie aside in my mind as one of the greats. So many tropes completely smashed.
Aladdin is the Comedy. The Thief and the Cobbler is the Tragedy.
Rest in Paradise, Richard. ❤️
Williams and all his crew being kicked out pissed me off so much
Technically, not all of his crew was kicked off. A team of Williams animators headed by Neil Boyle kept working on the movie, even after Calvert's change in direction. Mainly they just completed incomplete Williams animations.
And this, my friends, is why we don't put our passion projects in the financial hands of third parties.
Crowdfunding has similar downsides and obligations too. So best thing to do, especially with animation, is to self-finance. But on top of that, maybe don't go as crazy for perfection as Williams did. Cause even with the lavish, immaculate, almost unattainably fluid animation he achieved, he still clearly scrapped good work, and made a film that was longer than it ought to have been with all of it's poorly executed humor. With a more rational approach, this film could have been completed in the 1980s, in a comparatively shorter but still hefty amount of time. Akira managed to be completed, Fantasia managed to, Rintaro's Metropolis managed to, even Little Nemo: Adventures in Slumberland. This film could have, and should have been completed. It now stands as the poster-child for unfinished masterpieces. Perhaps someday, other 2D animators will come along to try and fill in the gaps, just like the Recobbled Cut did with the rough animation and storyboards.
Perfection my ass, the animation sucks, the character designs are forgettable. You "artists" are so full of yourselves. Yeah if you want to make something that only you'll enjoy use your own god damned money. If you expect me to pay for shit content only you enjoy then dont expect me to pay or let alone fund for it.
Good joke. Right?
@@yaykaboom My favorite part is that literally no one agrees with you.
AppleGlassJuice
He clearly has, or had, some beef with artists
@@buisnessmahn6642
Probably thought he could get free art and got mad when he learned what a commission was.
I think "Death of the Author" theory has been harmful to the role of artist's in retrospect. As long as we have the ability to preserve historical works of art, we will also be able to preserve information about the artists who created those works and why. Yes, a work of art can gain new significance over time or mean something different to an audience than the artist intended, but the artist's purpose is still the guiding force of the work existing and having any ability to speak to anybody.
Why not both?
Yes this theory is absolute dog shit meant to deprive creator's of their own genius and most of all effort. It's marxist garbage distilled.
Always happy to find you somewhere
Such an underrated animator!
If you can check out his latest work the Prologue so visceral and stylish
I loved watching the Thief and the Cobbler. The cobbler was so cute I loved him immediately. And the Thief was hilarious to me. Also a bit annoying sometimes but that was his role.
"Art without a message is just decoration." Well, it's 2021 - and I could go for more decorations.
Great video, and I'm glad Williams is still around and doing what he loves.
He lives in close to me. I sent him letter while writing this but never heard anything
Should of just @ him on twitter to be honest ahahah
Well, why won't you take a visit to him? You could greet him, right?
I mean he's a busy man and unless I have his blessing I wouldn't want to go track him down or anything, I mean I could be anyone to him, if he's ever game I wouldn't mind doing bit of a Q&A, although now this vid is done, I'm not in any rush to.
What does he say to you and what is his latest project?
I was skeptical and admittedly kinda annoyed when it seemed like you were going to go in the “The Thief is overrated” angle, BUT you explained your thoughts very well and in the end I totally agree with you. I still think it’s a minor tragedy that it was never completed, but I think the allure of it being this “unfinished masterpiece” can make it easy to overlook the flaws
I would have loved to see it finished, it's sad the only way you can experience the film in the way it's suppose to be seen is via a fancut.
@@Stevem link? Lol
I own 'Persistence of Vision' on DVD. I was fascinated by Richard William's style of animation and how smooth every scene he made were. When it got to the part where the project was taken, I felt really bad for him. I also felt bad for having Aladdin as my favorite movie as a kid, but I do remember renting Miramax's The Thief and the Cobbler a few times and watching it at my grandma's house many times. I loved Miramax's The Thief as a kid and I still love it now, but I think i'd love it even more as an adult if Richard William's intended version was the one released. Thank goodness I'm not alone in wanting to see his version completed.
Oh, yeah. I think there should be a few more screenings of Williams' Moment in Time and with Harvey Weinstein banned from his company, I have no doubt that this should be completed and dedicated to the people who helped circulate the footage. Plus, if completed for real, put an introduction to see what we're about to watch in the cinema. In theory, could it work.... somehow?
I will say Richard has no interest in finishing the film for real, he's moved on now he even said he wasn't bothered about a home release just because of the amount of effort it would take and he isn't getting any younger. Although I would love to get a home release for his version, incomplete as it may be.
I feel perfectionism can move us to create wonderful things, but can also cause us to struggle and come to a standstill. Though, in the end, is it really possible to reach perfection?
Great video, Richard Williams was an amazing animator. R.IP.
This was one of the most spectacular and beautiful films I've seen in so many years. It's just hypnotizing and marvelous, even if the storyline for it isn't perfect, I still recommend it to anyone who loves animation and it breaks my heart that, to find a digital or physical copy of the movie, is either expensive or impossible
4:28 god those black and white tiles hurt my eyes, Richard Williams is such an amazing animator if he can make my eyes hurt. That is amazing!!
my grandmother has this on vhs and when i saw it i was mezmorized. its truly a master piece even if wasnt finished. I have a very strong attachment to this movie. Rest In Peace Richard Williams and your work
I noticed something in the recobbled version's character design/writing- The thief is a clear example of antisemitism in early animated villains. He's not a bad character, but it's odd to watch once you spot it.
Impact left by WWII, still felt by those like me - even though in my 20s - with a Jewish grandfather who fought in the war.
It's weird though because the Thief is a caricature of Richard himself
It's funny that you see a thief and immediately think he must be Jewish.
So Disney stole Thief and the Cobbler in the form of Aladdin?
Why am I not surprised
A company so gripped by copyright law and yet grabs all their ideas from other people
same with lion king
@@Stevem Why do you think they are so tightly wrapped in a defensive web of copywrite law? Thieves expect everyone else is a thief.
There was also an anime of Aladdin in the 80's. The small details in the Disney film and missing plot holes are filled in the anime movie, Disney took liberty of including.
@@MrBlizzetta The creators of the Lion King pointed out that they had never even heard of Kimba until after the Lion King was released. It was only when the films were compared by members of the public and brought it to the attention of the creators that they realized how similar the stories were. And when you are telling Heroic Journey Myth tales, there are naturally going to be direct parallels because they are directly tapping into the same basic mythological narrative structure, even when the people making the material are separated by time, space, and even knowledge of the others' existence.
Anime in the late 1980s and early 1990s was a *TINY* niche market, and unless it was Speed Racer, virtually no Americans had seen an anime from the 1960s or earlier (and Kimba was from that early era of anime).
I loved this movie as a kid, it was so wild yet simple at the same time, and I loved the way the characters moved and the way the cobbler, though he doesn't say much, speaks through his sewing and art. As a kid I rarely talked and was pretty quiet so this film was a comfort one for me, I dont care how well it did or didnt do in box office its a good movie for arts sake
this was a fantastic, well researched, and tender documentary.
Thank you Lauren , I'm not sure why this video is getting so many views now but I'm glad people are enjoying them
This was me and my sisters favorite movie when we were kids. We rented the vhs from the local video store so much that they gave it to us 😢
This was my absolute favorite movie as a child. I have Richard Williams to thank for helping to expose me to greatness at such a tender age. There was nothing like this movie when I was young. Such a creative genius. Rest in power!
In Italy the dubbing youtuber community came toghether to make It known in Italy by dubbing It , a youtuber named 151eg obtained the legal right to do so by the guy who reconstructed the movie.
It was epic
An Italian community of youtuber are translating this film right now
The ultimate example of development hell.
So it's essentially a movie made for animators and hardcore animation fans, but not very appealing to general audiences? Maybe it would work better as a series of shorts than a full theatrical picture, imho. But it's still an amazing achievement nonetheless.
Also, some criticism: in the Roger Rabbit scene and the Thief climax scene in the video the audio is much louder than when you're narrating. I get that you probably did that on purpose, but I felt it was kind of annoying
Well here's a quote from Williams,
“It’s not an artistic wank
It's a blockbuster film
The ego trip of Dick Williams”
So it wasn't made for a hardcore audience it cost far too much for that. It was supposed to be a family film it just doesn't excel in that area. It was thought at the beginning it might work better as shorts but it ended up as a film. I believe it would of made a better collection of shorts.
I'll try and keep the audio levels more consistent in the future.
My kids loved the Thief & the Cobbler.
This video gets it right. I hate that people have a tendency to create narratives of events like these that follow such a predictable path: there’s always got to be a villain and a hero; an underdog has to battle the forces that stifle creativity. There is no villain in this story. A brilliant artist who excelled at animating tried to take on roles he could not handle, a patron gave him money, and eventually the money ran out. That’s it.
The entire time I was watching this, I thought, “He’s simply not a filmmaker,” and then Williams himself confirms it when he says, “I’m a figure artist who got sucked into animation.” Being a filmmaker means being a leader, a business partner, a creative head, and a storyteller. As this video points out, we should be grateful for what exists. Williams is probably grateful that someone had confidence enough to finance as much as they did. If he could have stayed under budget, on time, and made a movie with a compelling narrative, we’d have a better overall film. Being a passion project from a man who didn’t consider himself a career feature-length filmmaker, he wouldn’t have cared if it flopped and been his last feature. Just as long as he got to do it his way. If you were the head coach of a basketball team, would you put a player on the court who said, “I don’t care if we win as long as I get to play today,”?
But we want to see Warner Brothers or Disney as villains because without that angle of right vs wrong, good vs evil, integrity vs corruption, without them the back story isn’t compelling. And then what are we left with? Just a series of events in one man’s respectable career and the movie itself... and the movie itself is a bit of a drag.
RIP Richard Williams
Wow, that animation is amazing. It puts Disney to shame.
I was very impressed with The Secret of Kells. It's an independent movie that's visually amazing. The story is okay.
Secret of Kells was a good time check out the studios other films they've went places since that one
Not quite. Many of the animators who worked on The Thief and the Cobbler would go to work for Disney in the 1980s and 1990s. Their work there would be a continuation of what they learned studying and making the Thief and the Cobbler.
“Antz... vs Bug’s Life... but worse.” That about sums it up.
I remember my parents had to buy a second VHS copy because I burnt the first one from watching it over and over, it had something mesmerizing. Now I have discovered the great story behing my childhood's favorite movie and I'm amazed to learn about the struggle between an artist's masterpiece and the corporate reality that drives bigscreen animation. Thank you sir for the work you've done.
Wonderful video, The Thief and the Cobbler for all it's faults as an actual movie, is endlessly fascinating from a behind the scenes standpoint and you brought that across beautifully.
Thank you Kindly
This film was my childhood. I watched it like every week and I've probably seen it like 40 times by now.
Holy crap I remember this movie! I used to rewatch it everyday as a kid- I remember being entranced by the visuals, and loving the way the characters looked- this video gave me a giant slap of nostalgia :,)
The animation of this film is amazingly outstanding, very well done review
What you said about Yum Yum frustrates me shes beautiful and brave and saves the cobbler and goes out of her way to save the city. Yum Yum is not plane
Looking forward to when this channel gets more recognition!
Me too ahahah
It will remain one of my favorite animated movies for how impressive the animation was, you could feel the passion in every frame and I hope to own a cel of it one day.
Richard Williams may have been a master of animation, but he let his passion for the subject and his Magnum opus get in the way of developing himself practically as a businessman. Had he'd been more realistic with his choices, he would have not tried to squeeze putting animators on ''Cobbler'' in-between having to do commissioned work as a priority. He couldn't bring himself to say ''Okay, I'm not ready yet to bring 'Cobbler' into the film I want it to be. I'll just shelve it for the time being, and develop the concept in spare time to myself while I familiarise myself with a strong animation team and gain experience on other work.' That way Williams could have developed better as a businessman whilst giving himself ample opportunity to make sense of his personal project to a point where he felt the time was right to find interested backers and pursue production. Regards, Samuel Farris.
Rip master
I haven’t seen the Thief and the Cobbler in about 10-13 years. Damn.
Great video.
Thief and the Cobbler is an amazing film. The pinnacle of underrated movies
Yeah what you said at the end is amazing~ Zig Zag alone is worth the time to watch the clips~
RIP Mr Williams! Thank you!
It's been a while since I watched this but I really enjoyed it when I watched it. The visuals were spectacular and the movements were all so fluid it made my jaw drop. The characters, while not compelling or interesting or spicy as the ones who are used to, all had a quaint charm to them. I loved the way Tack looked at the princess and vice versa. I also loved it when I found out that Tack's skin darkened due to this exposure to the sun. Ooooh the detail!
But my favortie moment is probably when Tack FINALLY speaks in the movie and I realize his voice is the same as the narrators! Should have been obvious but I was still pleasantly surprised and loved it nevertheless!!
I remember watching this beautiful film in 1998 before The Rugrats movie came on in theaters I remember it like it was yesterday!!
Its fun that you used Rimsky-Korsakovs Scheherazade in your video. Very fitting.
Good video!
This movie was my childhood. This film, Cats Don't Dance, and A Nightmare Before Christmas I watched every night on replay. I went thru several VHS copies of it from overplaying it so much.
I remember watching the movie in Netflix like in 2010-2012 before removing it, it was unique in it's own way that me love as a kid. Now that I know the movie I can rewatch this again.
I was breathless during the final climax of the film where the evil base is being destroyed and the theif is just taking his good ol fucking time, dear god its engraved in my memory.
One of the best animation channels on youtube, keep up the good work
i love this movie i watch it everyday as a kid
Interesting video.
The BFI seems the most likely choice to actually release, in the UK, A Moment In Time, Richard's workprint of The Thief and the Cobbler, so I've been just saying that out loud a bit.
You refer to the Recobbled Cut as the "Recobbled Edition," made by "some people" rather than by Garrett Gilchrist (and some people). You're not the only one who has discovered and discussed this film because of my 8 years of work restoring it and Richard's other films, but won't say my name or credit me for some reason. I feel lucky to have brought this film to a wider audience and rehabilitated its reputation as a masterpiece rather than as a film that got butchered and ruined. But I often feel that people are tiptoeing around my involvement because it's "unofficial," which hasn't done much for my own career as a filmmaker and artist to be honest. (An "official" restoration similar to mine would never have happened, and the "unofficial" one had the support of hundreds who worked on the original film, but had to use some inferior sources. Never say never though, maybe someone has friends at a home video label.)
Dick was often criticized as insane and a perfectionist for wanting to reanimate scenes that had already been animated in the 70s and 80s, but these versions were often extremely rough and not up to the standards of the 1990ish production. The emerald scene with The Thief looks okay, but stands out as being in the old art style, and shows WHY all this stuff had to be reanimated.
Dick also had to redraw all the old Nasrudin-era (or later) storyboards and layouts during the 1990ish production. This led to a misconception that there were no storyboards until 1990ish. He had still been using the old boards during the two decades when this was just a side project without funding. As long as he hadn't finished all those scenes yet, he didn't need new boards.
It's often said that Dick had no plan and no script, but the script was in place with scene numbers in roughly its final form ten years before production properly began, and older scripts had been boarded in full. He was so much better and so much worse than he's ever given credit for. He could be difficult, but he certainly had a plan, that he wasn't sharing with outsiders.
Sorry If I didn't mention you by name I made this a while ago and generally when it comes to scripting some names get lost in the process when talking about so many different individuals, however you are both in the references in the description and literally on screen at about 7:10 with picture and name.
I'm not sure if everything needed to be completely reanimated I get it if the styles were radically different and they wanted something uniformed, but generally from the animator quotes I saw they were talking about scenes they had done recently which were scrapped over colours or not being up to Richards standard.
I applaud you for the work you did, I know before his death Richard wasn't interested in the hassle of trying to re-release the cobbler, maybe his family is now I don't know would be nice to see it.
I can't say I believe Dick had no plan but more so an elaborate plan which could never have been fully released in a corporate world
Thank you.
You wouldn't scrap a scene because it has the wrong colors. You might reshoot it. People like to talk trash about Richard Williams and have funny anecdotes that paint him as crazy. These are often easy to debunk if you look at the footage, documentation and facts of the time and use a little common sense. A fan of the film and researcher often debunks this stuff for me, which keeps me honest.
@@ocpmovie I can't say for sure most of what I heard came from animators who worked on the film in that documentary that came out a couple years back. Richard seemed like a good guy, he actually lived not so far from me I tried to contact him personally when I made this video but nothing ever came of it unfortunately
I addressed some common misconceptions about the film on AniMat's channel here: video ID iL0dYjbt5q8
I dont know If I remember seeing previews for this movie on a VHS tape, like the type of trailers they had before the movie would start, but this hit me in the nostalgia for real
Unlocked memory!! Me and my siblings used to love this movie when we were kids 😢
Something I've learned is that giant corporations are the enemies of art. I've also learned that at 10:02 is what the best art is. Just people doing it because they love it. People that want art to have a "message" are people I'm highly suspicious of and people that say "Everything is political" are poison
If you make art, it has a message the intent of the artist will always be there.
Through most of modern history art has been used and commissioned as a political tool.
The question is if you are more of an Auteur Theory or Death of the Author (etc.) kind of observer because after an artist creates the meaning of the piece is often left to the audience to question and reinterpret
@@Stevem I'm not sure how much I like the death of the author idea. I mean I understand that we can all take away different things based on our own experiences etc. But I don't like people declaring that some art can just mean something it blatently doesn't and using death of the author to justify it
@@drifter402 I'm more of an auteur theory kind of guy, but you must understand the death of the author was a direct response to Auteur theory as the critics of the time thought that some were spending far too much time on the author behind the work rather than the piece as it is. The idea was that in a hundreds of years of time that authors history would be irrelevant to what stands before us in that moment. It was never designed to justify any theory, if you have a theory on a piece, you cannot just say" hey death of the author means I am right" That is poor reasoning.
However say for example in Blade Runner, Harrison Ford, the screen writer and the original novelist all believe Deckard not to be a robot, but the director added this in his later cuts of the film. The Death of the Author would be a defence against the author later intent to say you may say this, but looking at the source material and the narrative arc i'd argue that this reading makes more sense. You could make the argument overall that the readers are more invested in the world of the creators than the creators. I make stuff and I gotta say I don't tend to revisit older stuff I make, I'm sure in the youtube video area there are people that could recite my points better than I could remember them.
That all being said there are many different theories and style of reading or analysing out there that go beyond these two.
I didn’t think anyone else watched this movie, it’s good to know I’m not alone
I loved this movie when I was younger, I still have a copy of it I think it's about time I dust it off and rewatch it thank you.
Wow, Thank you for introducing me to this film. I finally saw it (what is left of it) on youtube "TheThiefArchive" and loved it. I only was concerned that it's time is passed as I noticed 2 negative stereotypes in the film that would not make it out of the launch in this day and age. Glad it was completed despite those two things. If you didn't notice them, then that is a good thing.
I remember watching this movie when I was really young and I really just found it and I gained my love for it again. I fell in love with it’s amazing animation.
I was on a cruise in the year 2003..... November. Carnival.
This movie was one of the ONLY features played. Lmmfao
M.E?????
Was it the Miramax version? maybe they found it in a cereal box on the ship ahahhaah
Stevem idk....it was on the cruise, idky it was/how it was or WHY it was, but I saw it. 100+ times.
Maybe legally the only place it could be played
... international water...lol but it could be true.
Or maybe a MANDELA EFFECT
???😨
Back in the day they used to give out copies of Thief in cereal boxes so it might of just been on board because it was a cheap family film they found. Who knows its a true mystery of our time.
Wonderful video! Would argue that even beyond its troubled history this holds up as one of the best animated films, even with the limited competition*. Sequences often revel in indulgence, sure, but often to its benefit (the entire ending and the sheer over-the-top scale just makes it more entertaining and thematically fitting) while admittedly on occasion just repeating a very similar sequence (the thief pole vaults like....5 times). Characters are all one-note but then so are fairy tale characters and that early era of silent comedy it's trying to evoke. And i'd argue one-note isn't exactly a bad thing, since it allows Williams to draw back to the characters' movements in every sequence to inform their personality. Aladdin just walks; the Thief slinks. I know the one i'd prefer to watch in an animated medium.
*love of animation often comes down to aesthetic taste as well as a plain good film, but still there doesn't seem to be that much outside of Ghibli, huh? Pixar films are tightly scripted but oh so ugly to look at, and the majority of Disney stuff post-Walt is generic. I'd say some of my favorites would be The Adventures of Prince Achmed, Sleeping Beauty, My Neighbor Totoro, The Thief and the Cobbler, Samurai Jack, Everything Will Be Ok and Fantastic Mr. Fox. Any personal favorites you would recommend?
What about The Secret of Kells and The Boy and the World
edit: Nightmare Before Christmas, the Laika movies
This is the stuff I'd recommend seeing what you mentioned
On the Side of Thief
I agree with The Secret of Kells and whatever else the studio has worked too.w Worsey recommended me the last Belle and I watched it earlier made by someone who worked with Willaims its a good short in his studios style.
The Rabbi's Cat seems cool I've only watched bits, but stylistically its up there.
On the side of GhibliOne of their biggest influence is soviet animation. Such as the work of Yuriy Norshteyn, tryHedgehog in the Fog
From Ghibli My favourite Miyazaki is Porco Rosso One of my favourite Takahata's is My neighbour the Yamadas
Favourite Goro , Up on Poppy Hill
On Samurai Jack side we have
The Little Prince and the Eight Headed Dragon
The film that inspired Jacks look and style, if you like that film, Toei made Taro the Dragon Boy in the 70s and I think that's the best animation Toei did within their "disney of the east" period.
For Everything Will Be Ok
don hertzfeldt latest film WORLD OF TOMORROW
was one of my biggest artistic influences. Most of his work is worth checking out.
Fantastic Mr Fox
I just watched Isle of Dogs the other day and I Adored it might like it more than Fox, but its been a while. Although Fox used to be my favourite Wes Film.
The King and the Mockingbird is the other film I mentioned with a long development period, great film.
This list was centred on more family friendly animation(mostly)
Stevem have you seen the Boy and the World? It's a great work of minimalism and experimentation
I have not, but it sounds up my alley so I will try and track it down!
Stevem I have a copy of the remastered version of the 'king and the mockingbird', but i hadn't even heard of this one until i stumbled across your video here. I checked out the recobbled cut, and I was amazed at what was effectively tossed by a studio! It's really remarkable stuff! Apparently Roy Disney considered finishing it before leaving the company in 03. I came across this petition if anyone cares to sign it. bit.ly/2M0iJbc
Please help get the word out. There is already enough prevailing evil in the world, without Richard Williams finishing his masterwork.
Elemental, your days are numbered.
On a completely unrelated note, no one expected a movie about balls to be the absolute best! Not even I! And I didn't even know the premise of The Thief and the Cobbler the 1st time I learned about it on Wikipedia!
You really have to get on my good side to get an 11/10, but this movie absolutely deserves it. 👍
📚The Story
A story about 3 golden balls sounds like a sproutpost, but Williams was able to make it absolutely spectacular! There's a subplot of Zigzag wanting to take over the kingdom, and another subplot with the One-Eyes. The subplots can be easily ignored and thought of as part of the story! That's just how good it is! This is the most TED-talky I will evr get.
🎥The Animation
Alright, Elemental and Spider-Verse have good animation, BUT THIS!? How the living heck were they able to do this? This animation is so complex that I can say it's animation at its finest! But note, I watched the Recobbled Cut AND the Miramax version, so there are times when *WHOOP* it's now some rough animation! Or *WHOOP* it's now storyboarding! But I just think that adds on to the experience.
😀The Characters
The characters are actually a really solid addition to the movie! Let's start with the best character in all of cinematic history, Tak. I love this kooky little goofball! Tak carries some random tacks in his mouth but never seems to do anything with them except be hilarious comic relief. And now, the thief, who shall be *nameless.* Where do I even start with the Thief? (THIEF: I'm going to Disneyland!) Oh yeah that. I cannot get enough of this goofy lad. Especially the scene where he was about to steal from an old lady who lady reaches her GIANT MAN HANDS through her tunic and beats the ever-loving blumock out of him! That made me feel extreme adrenaline and it should with you! And then HE, ZIGZAG, the PUMPKIN KING! Without a doubt the best villain in all of cinematic history. Oh and by the way Tak is a meme in and of himself
So yeah, overall it gets my Leonhardt Seal of Approval plus some extra praise.
Story: 10/10
Animation: 12/10
Characters: 10/10
Total: 11/10
Abdul Omar Salaam, i totally didnt just leak his real name
The Thief and the Cobbler was one of my favorite films as a child!!!!! I was always sad when no one knew it
I seen this in this year and realize more than ever how surreal
This all is
Williams is sadly gone as of 2019, gone never truly realizing his Magnum Opus. He was still successful but perhaps the Thief was one of his regrets
It does seem tragic, that to work for 30 years on a project that’s in limbo, only to beaten to the punch by another successful film, and to finally have it released in a cheapened final copy
But Williams is akin to Walt Disney himself, Disney was an innovator who was one of the pioneers who started the modern entertainment industry itself
They and others inspired so many artists and companies to rise and build a pantheon of names of entertainment that we know and love today
Even if the Thief was Incomplete, it and its creator even today continued to inspire new generations of would be innovators and fans alike
I never got to watch the original movie when I was a child, only remembering the promo fresh in my mind, only got to watch the TH-cam cuts of it in the last decade, and maybe it’s for the best
As an adult, learning about all this now, I can fully appreciate what Williams and this movie represents
Let fans continue to try to dream in completing a work that may never be truly completed or appreciated, let it continue inspire from its nonsucess
In the end, whether it ever gets completed or not, it ironically fulfilled a reason why it never was completed by William’s hand, his dream of animation and inspiration at its finest qualities
Thank you for making all this possible for me to understand it now
I completely forgot about this movie and This randomly popped up on my feed like a blast from the past.
Wow... this is... very sad. 😢 I had no idea that's what the history of this movie was. It's a tragedy that this movie did not get to be made the way it was supposed to. May Richard Williams rest in peace.
Exactly my thoughts. Its more somthing you could put with fantasia style music.
He mightve mastered animation, but not the narrative. If that was the case, he shouldve focused on a musical piece.
I just want to say this channel doesn’t get enough credits for the quality of content it is producing.
OMG OMGOMGOM I FOUND YOUR CHANNEL TODAY AND WHEN LOOKING AROUND I SAW THE THUMBNAIL AND I CANNOT EXPRESS HOW HAPPY I AM YOU MADE THIS BECAUSE I SAW THIS MOVIE AS A KID AND I LOVED IT SO MUCH BUT I DIDN'T REMEMBER THE NAME OR KNEW HOW TO GOOGLE IT AND HERE IT IS AND I'M JUST SO HAPPY
This was one of my Staples as a child, thank you for sharing
I need to see this ! I never did but I love films that have such smooth animation and is aesthetically pleasing !
This deserves more views.
Haha feel free to spread it about if you like
Found this (and your video on Mockingbird) when doing an animation deep dive and this is absolutely my new favourite YT channel. I honestly cannot believe it took me so long to find you!
When I first saw the thumbnail it looked very familiar, but I couldent place it... then as I'm watching the video it all started becoming even more familiar and it was like I had this big AH-HA moment! Thanks for reminding me of this.
I f**king LOVE this movie! My mom rented it from the library on tape when my sister and I were kids and we watched that movie so much and thought it was so funny my mom hunted down our own copy of it and got it for us xD
This film was a central part of my childhood.
This movie scared me so much as a child.
OH MY GOD IT'S THIS MOVIE!! I watched this SO many years ago on TV and thought it was just so gorgeous looking! But I never knew the title of it, and went searching for hours. I even thought maybe I imagined this movie because it seemed so hard to find, and as it turns out, it is! But then I see this video in my suggestions, and I'd recognize Tac (Tack?) anywhere! I audibly gasped when I saw the thumbnail. BLESS! :)
I think peak 2D Animation and Best Animated Film ever made should be 2 different contests all together. This movie in my eyes, as an Artist, is the peak of all 2D traditional animation.
As for the story, acting, etc? That movie would be harder to decide. I'm thinking of Phantom Tollbooth, Aladdin, Roger Rabbit, The Pagemaster, and on and on; the list is hard to end.
Richard Williams, Genius Animator! we should't grief what never was but be happy from what we have...
The Thief and the Cobbler was a major subject of discussion when I was in college. It's such a sad, painful tale.
As one truly enriched through and by art in its many forms,I want to thank you for your work. Thank you.
what a great summary of what I believe is the most monumentous art work ever...thank you
This channel is golden, you deserve so much more
Thank you so much!
I'm working on my next video, I'm trying something a little different so it might take a bit longer
I remember watching this movie on vhs as a chlid, I loved this movie I grow up with this film and I'm sad to hear what happen to Richard Williams
I think there's a reason Disney is where it is. They make a good product that combines narrative and fantastic animation.
....*stares at several live action disney films*...most of the time
And they tank the competition behind the scenes while abusing their own creators....yaaay
@@trashbasket11 Yes, this is true. That being said, there are fundamental problems with this movie that go beyond Disney ruining it. We see this repeatedly that you need strong writers for animated movies and comics and other visual mediums.
The Thief & the Cobbler is one of my favourite animated films (despite some of the flaws? you mentioned in your video). The exquisit animation and wonderful voice acting, not to mention the humourous Jonathan Winter paired with the brilliant Vincent Price, will always hold a very dear place in my heart. As a animation and cinemaphile Canadienne I was very lucky that the CBC had so many interesting, wonderful animations growing up - legends such as Frédéric Back, Aleksandr Petrov, and Yuri Norstein. I am so pleased that Williams was amoung them.
I rented the thief and the cobbler VHS three times at blockbuster when I was a kid.
I'm sorry but everytime I watch the persistence of vision I cry. I feel so much pain and sorrow for Richard Williams.
I was addicted to this movie as a child.
"Greatest film never made?"
Dune: *SUP BITCHES*
Thank you Richard Williams
I remember watching a movie on VHS and before the movie there were previews obviously, well this movie was in there and it fascinated me and I was like 7-10 years old at the time, I just recently thought about it again and have been watching stuff like this