I love how you explained keeping the scapula down with your back. Instantly went and drew my bow after watching this and 0 strain…. Before I could do maybe 7 arrows before my deltoid would start hurting. Your a godsend
I really like how you present the information so clearly, and you demonstrate it for those who learn better when we can see it instead of just explaining or showing pictures. I'm really enjoying your videos!!!
Just what i needed. I would call myself an intermediate archer, but the bow shoulder was always very confusing for me. I always rolled my shoulder to get into "better allignement" and keeping it neutral always felt like i was getting out of good allignement. I would agree that this is the most common problem for most archers. I basically copied what i saw from other archers and a high bow shoulder with very tense neck muscles seems to be the norm for recreational archers.....It's great you explain everything so detailed, you finally solved some questions i always had. Thanks a lot for this awesome channel. Keep up the great work.
Self taught here, needed this video, before I hurt my shoulder! Such a clear explanation, thank you! Can't wait to correct this set posture in my chest, head and mostly my dang shoulders.
Getting back into archery after 20years and I’ve been making ALL these mistakes! Great vid! What you think your doing and what your actually doing are 2 very different things😢
I have been shooting over two years, this front shoulder alignment actually make a lot of sense now, especially the scapular part is very helpful. thank you
Once again, an excellent video. The information presented is broken down into clear steps with precise explanation. Again and again I am reminded that the most fundamental components of each shot are key to obtaining reproducibility and perfection. The most important part of each failed shot is the one small step not performed.
For me its been one of your best videos so far. Really explains how to start off right. My bow shoulder started to creep up and out of position due to a neck injury. Any neck movement caused the traps to get tight and pull the shoulder up. Still working through that issue with physio. But some good tips there
I will be sure to try these. Yesterday's practice really fucked up the shoulder and radius of my bow arm. Not sure if these will fix it, but I will try.
I need to try these techniques because I feel like something isn't quite right with how my shoulder is set when I come to full draw. I try to make sure my is low, but if I can use these tips it should make sure I'm set properly. Thanks for the helpful videos.
Your videos are always super helpful, problem's solutions are explained very well, easy to understand and follow. I teach beginner classes at our club and always find new inspiration here to better explain techniques to my newbie archers. . Thank you so much and keep up the great work!
Thanks so much Ylvie! I really appreciate it - it means the world to hear the videos help out! I always wanted to create something that would help archers like yourself so that's amazing. Thanks for the support :)
I'm a beginner and I think the best way for me to understand this is to do a scooping movement down and forward. It really locks the shoulder in position but also to keep that pushing tension going at all times because I found that when I raised the bow, even in the correct way, I'd stop pushing forward and just hold the bow arm up and then draw back but because I wasn't still pushing, I'd lose tension and my shoulder would move up and back a little. Now I do the scooping, pushing movement and I keep pushing the bow when I'm drawing back the string and it keeps my shoulder in the correct position. For me, the bow shoulder was giving me the most issues out of everything. If not set right, it's nearly impossible to get consistent shots. Fatigue in the shoulder is a good sign that it's not set right.
This is like a remedy, he reads minds as i needed that and it is a new video. I want to ask; is the barebow nose being slapped by the string a symptom of bad posture and head control or is it just a barebow thing...??? (or a big nose thing?)
Hey Leon! Thanks so much! It sounds like possibly the anchor/head position isn't quite correct Even with barebow the string shouldn't slap your nose. It's hard to say without seeing a picture or video but I would first make sure the head is neutral and not angled too far down and tilted which could cause the string to hit it. I'd also double check the position you have at full draw :)
@@OnlineArcheryAcademy it must be the head I thing. But I also might overdrawn the anchor. I believe good form is the most important thing. It's what makes it an athletic endeavour rather than just a shooting sport.
@@OnlineArcheryAcademy Sorry, but no. Trad archer here, and a long time competitor. It shows that you are specialized to Olympic archery. I am a great believer, that we trad archers should follow B.E.S.T. shot cycle as much as possible, don't get me wrong. So I'm studying it profoundly. I would also like to thank you sincerely for the knowledge that you are sharing. I appreciate it very, very much. But in terms of anchoring in Barebow, and even more in instinctive and longbow division, some real compromises have to be made. One of the Barebow legends, John Demmer, multi champion, constantly wears a nose band aid. We typically have a higher anchor. First problem allready there (alignment and transfer). Bows, especially in longbow division are different enough, that they demand canting, and with that, the head position comes forward. With higher anchor, string moves more to the side of the face, so some archers make one of two compromises, or both: they sacrifice alignment to keep the string more centered for achieving at least some kind of string blur (alignment of the string with riser). Or they cant the head towards the string as much as possible to bring the string towards the eye, and move the nose out of the way. This means the head is tilted sideways and forward (to the bow also). Look Jason Wesbrock (which happens to have a nice prominent masculine nose also😉😃). He is multi world champion and nationals winner in 3d, field&indoor, Barebow. Or Giuliano Faletti, Italian longbow shooter, multi champion. This is even more important for instinctive and longbow division as Barebow division can and do control position of an anchor on the face with string crawl. We longbow and instinctive archers can not. We either stay low on the face and get too big gaps in the distances we shoot, but then it's mostly game over in terms of competition success, or go high towards the eye, and get some of the problems with alignment, transfer , nose slap, sometimes impossible string blur, BUT get manageable (smaller) and repeatable gaps in distances up to 30 meters. All elite competitors aim in one way or another. Long gone are the days, where you could hope to win a 3d tournament as an instinctive shooter, even on a national level. Everyone is trying to decide what is best to him. Bow set up and personal anatomy (face, cheekbones, nose), draw weight and maybe more all come into play. BUT nobody is really sure, that what he is doing himself, is really the best way for him ( because, as I said, there are big, big compromises to be made). The most sure that are doing it right, are the people, who know very little to nothing about archery. That is usually allways the case. I'm not one of them, so this comment is not meant as a critique. I'm just stating the facts (competitors simply do that, right or wrong), and hoping to spur some discussion, and maybe come to the new insights and knowledge. I believe sincerely, that Olympic archers have the highest knowledge and technical expertise. So I'm hoping that I get some feedback from you and maybe come to some new insights. Greetings and best wishes from me!
I am retired and have been shooting both recurve and longbow for almost 2 years. This is a brilliant video and I have learned a lot from this and other of your tutorials. My main issue however is not addressed here in that I can’t seem to find advice on whether I should be extending my bow arm when I come up to shoot. By extending I can stretch between one and two more inches. This obviously affects my draw length. What would you suggest?
I had the bow shoulder and I did it because I thought that it helped me with aim, it helps to tell them it doesn't help with aim and that it's more comfortable shooting longer with a normal shoulder
Hi, when I lift my arm, my shoulder is already up and rolled over, I think because I have a very bad posture as a whole. Therefore, everything after that is quite difficult and even just rolling the shoulder back with raised arm only. Any tips? Thanks a lot for the video!
Please talk about the draw shoulder, I have a rotator cuff injury because (I think) pull too early. Almost six months of exercises and three months without shots and the pain is still the same (not that hard, but uncomfortable)
I have a naturally high bow shoulder due to scoliosis and it causes real problems, including constant soreness in the shoulder. If I force the shoulder down to get into a bone on bone position I wind up paying the price for it afterward.
Hi Ashe, extra rotation enables to lock the scapula close to the spine, all right. Do you set it and keep it: 1) before lifting the bow up and then hold it all the time 2) when you're lifting the bow up and at the highest height you rotate the elbow inward and also the bow shoulder outward as you said Option 1 makes me feel a bit too rigid, maybe because at my age flexibility is poor? Option 2 requires a bit more coordination to synchronize concurrent movements.
@@OnlineArcheryAcademy I 'm referring when you clearly show (at 3'58" on) how you rolled back the scapula to be positioned and kept close to the spine. My question is when you do this movement in the shot cycle, considering that the movement of raising the bow is when the shoulder would like to be lifted up? This question may remind to the video when you talked about the elbow rotation, not suggested to lock it before but during the rasing of the bow, around at the maximum height. 1) If you roll the scapula before and keep it down while you lift the bow (Set -> Setup transition) I feel solid but also pretty rigid. My joint perhaps is not flexible so well 2) During the elevation of the bow, soon after you rotated the elbow inward then you also roll back the scapula, just before you start rotating the torso in sync when the hands are going down from nose height to jaw height, 3) During or after the rotation of the torso for shoulder alignment, but I see it hard because the bow shoulder is not rock solid and and ready to resist against the load of the opening bow. Hope I clarified (in words is much harder!) Thanks
Hi Ashe, watching again and more carefully, indeed you said at 12'22" that the archer should set the bow scapula (by rolling back and place it close to the spine) since from the set position and then keep it the same when the bow is lifted up to prevent it goes up again. You also advice that that feeling is for beginners as in the long term advanced archer do not want to retract scapula close to the spine. That was my initial question: because sometime I had the impression that some top archers seems to allow the bow shoulder to raise when they lift up the bow but then they are also able to roll back the scapula and place it in a solid position during the shoulder alignment when they rotate the torso and go down.
I am beginning to have bow shoulder pain. Would raising the shoulder too high cause pain or injury--more specifically, I mean raising the shoulder slightly out of position as you have mentioned? I shoot barebow with a high anchor if it matters.
Hey Joseph - having the shoulder high definitely increases the risk of pain or injury - it's worth trying to have it more neutral for sure, try with a band and light bow first :)
@@OnlineArcheryAcademy Thank you. I'm going over your videos on the bow shoulder form now. Excellent resource for those of us who do not have access to archery coaches. Thanks again
With a strong isometric bow arm and muscle controll in combination with a predraw where the shoulders are set this problem is avoided. Most People dont have controll or feel of the muscles before they develop those motor skill, and if they dont practice it and activate the feeling it wont happen by itself, i see many archerd unable to turn their head 90 degree
I think the first few minutes of the video was explaining that telling an archer to have a 'strong isometric bow arm' causes them to have a high bow shoulder but maybe I misunderstood.
@@tzbobr if the arm is strong the compression happens in the shoulder, because People dont push forward with the muscles in the back to support the arm and shoulder, there is too mutch mention of the drawing side when the bow arm side back muscles are ignored, often is push pull mention but No one has every explained it in biomeckanical terms., the real diffrence is reaching for somthing where the montions starts for elongsting the deltoid where as the compression testing push shoulg orginate in the lower trapesius and scapula muscles leaving the deltoid in a resting pos.
Awesome and clear explanations. Learning everyday. Thanks for sharing the knowledge. Guys... Out there... Please popularise and subscribe this channel.
This is why it's easier to come down instead of coming up. Don't want to hear about safety this and bollocks that, I'm holding the string with my hand and I'm not going to let it go.
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I love how you explained keeping the scapula down with your back. Instantly went and drew my bow after watching this and 0 strain…. Before I could do maybe 7 arrows before my deltoid would start hurting. Your a godsend
I really like how you present the information so clearly, and you demonstrate it for those who learn better when we can see it instead of just explaining or showing pictures. I'm really enjoying your videos!!!
Thanks so much - I'm happy the videos are helpful :) There are a few more that will be published soon....
Struggled with this for along time & could never get any real advice on "how" to keep the shoulder down, this is spot on thanks
Spot on, priceless lesson. Thank you.
You're welcome! Thanks for watching :)
Just what i needed. I would call myself an intermediate archer, but the bow shoulder was always very confusing for me. I always rolled my shoulder to get into "better allignement" and keeping it neutral always felt like i was getting out of good allignement. I would agree that this is the most common problem for most archers. I basically copied what i saw from other archers and a high bow shoulder with very tense neck muscles seems to be the norm for recreational archers.....It's great you explain everything so detailed, you finally solved some questions i always had. Thanks a lot for this awesome channel. Keep up the great work.
That's awesome to hear! I'm really happy that's ironed out a few things! Thanks for watching and I'll be sure to make more videos on similar topics :)
This is a big issue for me coming from a deskjob, thank you for specifically covering this topic!
I have watched this video 4* times already and keep coming back to make sure my posture is good.
Loving the videos!
Very good presenter. Lots of experience and knowledge and that is what I am looking for. Thank You !
Self taught here, needed this video, before I hurt my shoulder! Such a clear explanation, thank you! Can't wait to correct this set posture in my chest, head and mostly my dang shoulders.
This video addressed my biggest problem and ways to resolve it! Thank you for making this video!
Fantastic video. As a new bow shooter, this has been a huge issue for me. This makes so much sense. Thank you!
I love that you show everything practically instead of just plain talking. Great video as always.
Thanks! Always happy to help!
Getting back into archery after 20years and I’ve been making ALL these mistakes! Great vid! What you think your doing and what your actually doing are 2 very different things😢
I have been shooting over two years, this front shoulder alignment actually make a lot of sense now, especially the scapular part is very helpful. thank you
Thanks so much! Glad it was helpful! Keep working on your shooting :)
Once again, an excellent video. The information presented is broken down into clear steps with precise explanation.
Again and again I am reminded that the most fundamental components of each shot are key to obtaining reproducibility and perfection.
The most important part of each failed shot is the one small step not performed.
For me its been one of your best videos so far. Really explains how to start off right. My bow shoulder started to creep up and out of position due to a neck injury. Any neck movement caused the traps to get tight and pull the shoulder up. Still working through that issue with physio. But some good tips there
Thanks, that means a lot! I was wondering whether it was a bit too dry/technical but glad it helped out :)
same!
Very very easy to understand video and a very good tips for begginers, i was doing the same with my forearm
I will be sure to try these. Yesterday's practice really fucked up the shoulder and radius of my bow arm. Not sure if these will fix it, but I will try.
Thank you so much it was very helpful 👏
Perfect timing for me thanks
You’re welcome 😊 Glad it helps :)
so useful. Thanks
Very clear, thank you.
Imho the background music is out of place, a clean and informative talk like yours needs no music.
I need to try these techniques because I feel like something isn't quite right with how my shoulder is set when I come to full draw. I try to make sure my is low, but if I can use these tips it should make sure I'm set properly. Thanks for the helpful videos.
Really useful video, not just for beginners but also for those of us who have been doing things wrong for some time.
Why have you been doing it wrong?
Me too. I am a culprit myself. I don't have proper coaching... Learnt a lot here. Thanks, Ashe.
Thanks Ollie!
No worries!
Your videos are always super helpful, problem's solutions are explained very well, easy to understand and follow.
I teach beginner classes at our club and always find new inspiration here to better explain techniques to my newbie archers. .
Thank you so much and keep up the great work!
Thanks so much Ylvie! I really appreciate it - it means the world to hear the videos help out! I always wanted to create something that would help archers like yourself so that's amazing. Thanks for the support :)
Fantasic video mate! I will get good results as an archer and as a coach from this
Very helpful
new subscriber here great video hello from Australia.
Excellent ! Thanks and greetings from Germany :-)
Thanks so much Lalaisap! Greetings to you in Germany too! Thanks for watching!
Thank you. Very useful.
Excellent tips, thank you!😁
very good!!
😄
Excellent. Helpful tips
Glad it was helpful! Thanks Didier!
Very usefull advices. Thanks
My pleasure! Thanks for watching :)
Excellent.
Awesome!
Great videos as always 👌
Appreciate it! Thanks Martin!
I'm a beginner and I think the best way for me to understand this is to do a scooping movement down and forward. It really locks the shoulder in position but also to keep that pushing tension going at all times because I found that when I raised the bow, even in the correct way, I'd stop pushing forward and just hold the bow arm up and then draw back but because I wasn't still pushing, I'd lose tension and my shoulder would move up and back a little. Now I do the scooping, pushing movement and I keep pushing the bow when I'm drawing back the string and it keeps my shoulder in the correct position. For me, the bow shoulder was giving me the most issues out of everything. If not set right, it's nearly impossible to get consistent shots. Fatigue in the shoulder is a good sign that it's not set right.
Very good
Thanks Khaizal!
This is like a remedy, he reads minds as i needed that and it is a new video.
I want to ask; is the barebow nose being slapped by the string a symptom of bad posture and head control or is it just a barebow thing...???
(or a big nose thing?)
Hey Leon! Thanks so much! It sounds like possibly the anchor/head position isn't quite correct
Even with barebow the string shouldn't slap your nose. It's hard to say without seeing a picture or video but I would first make sure the head is neutral and not angled too far down and tilted which could cause the string to hit it. I'd also double check the position you have at full draw :)
@@OnlineArcheryAcademy it must be the head I thing. But I also might overdrawn the anchor. I believe good form is the most important thing. It's what makes it an athletic endeavour rather than just a shooting sport.
@@OnlineArcheryAcademy
Sorry, but no. Trad archer here, and a long time competitor.
It shows that you are specialized to Olympic archery. I am a great believer, that we trad archers should follow B.E.S.T. shot cycle as much as possible, don't get me wrong. So I'm studying it profoundly. I would also like to thank you sincerely for the knowledge that you are sharing. I appreciate it very, very much.
But in terms of anchoring in Barebow, and even more in instinctive and longbow division, some real compromises have to be made.
One of the Barebow legends, John Demmer, multi champion, constantly wears a nose band aid.
We typically have a higher anchor. First problem allready there (alignment and transfer).
Bows, especially in longbow division are different enough, that they demand canting, and with that, the head position comes forward.
With higher anchor, string moves more to the side of the face, so some archers make one of two compromises, or both: they sacrifice alignment to keep the string more centered for achieving at least some kind of string blur (alignment of the string with riser). Or they cant the head towards the string as much as possible to bring the string towards the eye, and move the nose out of the way. This means the head is tilted sideways and forward (to the bow also).
Look Jason Wesbrock (which happens to have a nice prominent masculine nose also😉😃). He is multi world champion and nationals winner in 3d, field&indoor, Barebow. Or Giuliano Faletti, Italian longbow shooter, multi champion.
This is even more important for instinctive and longbow division as Barebow division can and do control position of an anchor on the face with string crawl. We longbow and instinctive archers can not. We either stay low on the face and get too big gaps in the distances we shoot, but then it's mostly game over in terms of competition success, or go high towards the eye, and get some of the problems with alignment, transfer , nose slap, sometimes impossible string blur, BUT get manageable (smaller) and repeatable gaps in distances up to 30 meters.
All elite competitors aim in one way or another. Long gone are the days, where you could hope to win a 3d tournament as an instinctive shooter, even on a national level.
Everyone is trying to decide what is best to him. Bow set up and personal anatomy (face, cheekbones, nose), draw weight and maybe more all come into play.
BUT nobody is really sure, that what he is doing himself, is really the best way for him ( because, as I said, there are big, big compromises to be made).
The most sure that are doing it right, are the people, who know very little to nothing about archery. That is usually allways the case.
I'm not one of them, so this comment is not meant as a critique. I'm just stating the facts (competitors simply do that, right or wrong), and hoping to spur some discussion, and maybe come to the new insights and knowledge. I believe sincerely, that Olympic archers have the highest knowledge and technical expertise.
So I'm hoping that I get some feedback from you and maybe come to some new insights.
Greetings and best wishes from me!
I am retired and have been shooting both recurve and longbow for almost 2 years. This is a brilliant video and I have learned a lot from this and other of your tutorials.
My main issue however is not addressed here in that I can’t seem to find advice on whether I should be extending my bow arm when I come up to shoot. By extending I can stretch between one and two more inches. This obviously affects my draw length. What would you suggest?
No that is a bad love to stress the shoulder and tricep you want to keep your bow arm still and draw with your other arm only
I had the bow shoulder and I did it because I thought that it helped me with aim, it helps to tell them it doesn't help with aim and that it's more comfortable shooting longer with a normal shoulder
Great point! Thanks :)
Great Video Ashe! it really hits the point for us beginners; keep it up pls Best Joe
Thanks so much Joe!
Hi, when I lift my arm, my shoulder is already up and rolled over, I think because I have a very bad posture as a whole. Therefore, everything after that is quite difficult and even just rolling the shoulder back with raised arm only. Any tips?
Thanks a lot for the video!
Just wondering what is the long term ‘feeling’ that a more experienced archer should have when raising the bow
Pressure point in the bow hand, forearm tennssion and the tricep
Coming to a video near you soon.... 😜
Please talk about the draw shoulder, I have a rotator cuff injury because (I think) pull too early. Almost six months of exercises and three months without shots and the pain is still the same (not that hard, but uncomfortable)
Definitely, I'll be doing a video on that soon :)
I have a naturally high bow shoulder due to scoliosis and it causes real problems, including constant soreness in the shoulder. If I force the shoulder down to get into a bone on bone position I wind up paying the price for it afterward.
Sir how much time sir
Hi Ashe, extra rotation enables to lock the scapula close to the spine, all right. Do you set it and keep it:
1) before lifting the bow up and then hold it all the time
2) when you're lifting the bow up and at the highest height you rotate the elbow inward and also the bow shoulder outward as you said
Option 1 makes me feel a bit too rigid, maybe because at my age flexibility is poor? Option 2 requires a bit more coordination to synchronize concurrent movements.
Hey Andrea - just so I'm clear, what do you mean extra rotation enables to lock the scapula close to the spine? Is this with the elbow joint?
@@OnlineArcheryAcademy I 'm referring when you clearly show (at 3'58" on) how you rolled back the scapula to be positioned and kept close to the spine. My question is when you do this movement in the shot cycle, considering that the movement of raising the bow is when the shoulder would like to be lifted up? This question may remind to the video when you talked about the elbow rotation, not suggested to lock it before but during the rasing of the bow, around at the maximum height.
1) If you roll the scapula before and keep it down while you lift the bow (Set -> Setup transition) I feel solid but also pretty rigid. My joint perhaps is not flexible so well
2) During the elevation of the bow, soon after you rotated the elbow inward then you also roll back the scapula, just before you start rotating the torso in sync when the hands are going down from nose height to jaw height,
3) During or after the rotation of the torso for shoulder alignment, but I see it hard because the bow shoulder is not rock solid and and ready to resist against the load of the opening bow.
Hope I clarified (in words is much harder!)
Thanks
Hi Ashe, watching again and more carefully, indeed you said at 12'22" that the archer should set the bow scapula (by rolling back and place it close to the spine) since from the set position and then keep it the same when the bow is lifted up to prevent it goes up again.
You also advice that that feeling is for beginners as in the long term advanced archer do not want to retract scapula close to the spine.
That was my initial question: because sometime I had the impression that some top archers seems to allow the bow shoulder to raise when they lift up the bow but then they are also able to roll back the scapula and place it in a solid position during the shoulder alignment when they rotate the torso and go down.
I am beginning to have bow shoulder pain. Would raising the shoulder too high cause pain or injury--more specifically, I mean raising the shoulder slightly out of position as you have mentioned?
I shoot barebow with a high anchor if it matters.
Hey Joseph - having the shoulder high definitely increases the risk of pain or injury - it's worth trying to have it more neutral for sure, try with a band and light bow first :)
@@OnlineArcheryAcademy Thank you. I'm going over your videos on the bow shoulder form now. Excellent resource for those of us who do not have access to archery coaches. Thanks again
@@mountainpaddler2242 No problem :) Keep working on it, the bow shoulder position is difficult to master, but it's worth it :)
Just relax 🙂
What if I can't raise my arm without lifting my shoulder?
With a strong isometric bow arm and muscle controll in combination with a predraw where the shoulders are set this problem is avoided. Most People dont have controll or feel of the muscles before they develop those motor skill, and if they dont practice it and activate the feeling it wont happen by itself, i see many archerd unable to turn their head 90 degree
I think the first few minutes of the video was explaining that telling an archer to have a 'strong isometric bow arm' causes them to have a high bow shoulder but maybe I misunderstood.
@@tzbobr if the arm is strong the compression happens in the shoulder, because People dont push forward with the muscles in the back to support the arm and shoulder, there is too mutch mention of the drawing side when the bow arm side back muscles are ignored, often is push pull mention but No one has every explained it in biomeckanical terms., the real diffrence is reaching for somthing where the montions starts for elongsting the deltoid where as the compression testing push shoulg orginate in the lower trapesius and scapula muscles leaving the deltoid in a resting pos.
afraid that rolling the bow shoulder to lower it will also rotate the elbow and bring it closer to the string...
🔥🙏
Thanks :)
Awesome and clear explanations. Learning everyday. Thanks for sharing the knowledge. Guys... Out there... Please popularise and subscribe this channel.
Thanks Mikhail! Really happy it was helpful, I'll be doing some more videos like this soon on other areas of the shot :)
This is why it's easier to come down instead of coming up. Don't want to hear about safety this and bollocks that, I'm holding the string with my hand and I'm not going to let it go.
👍
Nothing works like an example. Show with a bow, from start to finish, what one should do.
Deg teg fateh