One thing about loop antennas: you have to point them to where the location of the transmitter whose signal you want to listen to. So either you spin the atenna manually or use a rotator. I have a YouLoop antenna and for MW it is a wonderfull antenna. I was able to listen to an AM station from South Africa only 2kHz below strong signals coming in from stations from my state in southern Brasil and from adjacent countries here in south America. I used an Airspy HF+ Discovery SDR receiver.
Hi. Min 0:42 schematic: The yellow and blue wires are covered by the shield so they are protected for picking up signal (ideally, with a good quality cable). On top, the loop's shield, that is the only exposed part able for picking up signal, is grounded in the middle with the coax shield (the black wire that goes down vertically), that means that any signal picked up by the only exposed part of the loop is killed to ground. The yellow and blue wires are living in a shield coffin. That's why it does not work. Make this test: Forget about the yellow and blue wires, remove the box on top, split the shield on bottom in two symmetrical parts and connect each isolated side to the balum. Remove that black vertical line going to the coaxial shield. You should be able to pick more signals. However, it is now a dipole antenna with two circular shaped arcs, that are canceling signals each other vectorially speaking. That's why I don't like loops.
I experimented building one of these low-Q passive loop receiving antennas a few years ago and one thing I learned is they absolutely require a preamp. Add a good LNA an it will work great.
During the day it does require a preamp. But at night, if you're into LW and MW it works very well. I was able to tune a station from Cape Town, South Africa which is almost 6,400km distant, despite being just 2kHz down below the closest station (here in Brazil, MW stations are 10kHz apart and in Africa are 9kHz). A friend of mine built two active antennae based on the YouLoop but with a much smaller diameter. They are just great.
@@juliocesarpereira4325hi frpm Cape Town. I presume you heard Magic 828? Their txer is a few kilometres from my home. So i also built a youloop mainly for MW, just like you. The diameter of mine is about 1.5m. it works quite well, and the s/n ratio is definitely better than random long wire antennas.
Kevin your video raises more questions. 1) the YouLoop is very directional. Did you rotate for each signal or is it oriented the same as your reference antenna. 2) these are non resonant (?) How does the diameter affect the signal levels? 3) Horizontal would be interesting also, note polarization effects? 3) it would be educational to actually record the levels (v dbm) 4) I note the Chinese version 1:1 transformer was not 'correctly" wound? 73 NO1SE
It seems a more efficient low noise receive antenna would be a nice long beverage wire antenna, 4ft off the ground (you have the space for it out in the desert)
This is where a high wattage soldering iron wins the day. Lots of heat, get in quick, and then get out. Doesn’t get the insulation hot enough to begin to melt. I always keep my old 250 watt Weller soldering gun around for this work.
I predict I am the eleventeenth person to point out that these antennas are great if your receiver is very very sensitive, basically like the Airspy HF+ Discovery, but for the majority of other receivers in my experience, you need to use an LNA preamp because it's not the antenna that is deaf. It's your radio. I have a 30dB LNA when I use mine with my SDRplay Duo, but the HF+ Discovery doesn't want it at all. If your radio wants teeny tiny signals then the naked Youloop is great. If your radio wants old school big copper signals then you will need the preamp
The YouLoop product description page on the Airspy website says "Compatibility Airspy HF+ Discovery (Recommended) Airspy HF+ Dual Port (with R3 shorted) Any other SDR with MDS
That coax is RG402 (by the looks of it) semi rigid, PTFE all around (that is why there is no print on it, nothing sticks to Teflon ;) ). Anyway the thing is not a total loss, you got some good coax out of it.
My homemade loop antenna works always better than my at Banggood bought Youloop (I have the HDYloop). It seems that many good looking antennas are only a fake. Great video.
Be interesting to see a pre amp involved. I’ve had some good SWL results with a Youloop and live in a noisy town centre. They’re inexpensive like the MLA 30 active loop and get you going if you are new to the hobby with restricted outdoor space.
Actually, it's not really differentiating between E or H fields since both couple to an antenna equally regardless of configuration. What it seems to be doing is that the gap allows for it to be balanced such that common mode signals are suppressed in the antenna system. I believe Owen Duffy has a good explanation from a mathematical/theoretical perspective.
I bought the original YouLoop and the results are similar but I need to point out that when I switch from a vertical to the YouLoop I have to adjust the gain. My vertical has some gain but the YouLoop has zero gain so when I use it and adjust the gain in my software I get less noise and more signals! So far, the YouLoop is my favorite for MW on up to about FM broadcast. It does well even higher but I have little interest in anything above FM radio. Did I mention the vertical is mounted outside on a mast and the YouLoop is inside and next to me? I would like to see the same 2 antennas side by side but adjusted for maximum performance on each. I enjoy your videos!
Serving Suggestion: Use crimp connector ferrules instead of soldering - or in addition to soldering the coax ends. Two ferrules will do it. Crimp and solder before shrink tubing it. It will be much stronger and easier to solder the center to braid connections. Clever eh? Nice video - clearly and briefly narrated. I wonder how it would work on HF with a larger loop placed far away from the dwelling. I also wonder whether you could use a reverse polarity UHF/PL-359 or other type of reverse phase connector/adapter to mate the two loops without having to solder them like you did. Just thinking aloud. GOOD JOB, OM. TT
Hi Kevin, Yeah, that AM station you were seeing on 660 kHz is most likely KTNN, the Flame-Thrower - 50,000 Watt station in Window Rock, AZ. It is about 300 miles to the east of you. Ironically, I can't pick it up well down here in Tucson; too many mtns. in between & too much local noise. Now, what I found interesting was the non-10kHz spaced signals; like the one at about 603 kHz. As that may be a station in the Caribbean or central/S. America as they use 9 kHz spacings (or sometimes 5 or 8). Therefore with your SDR PLAY or your even more sensitive 7300/705, you should be able to pull it in. Let us know what it is - thanks. The problem with those small loops is that... well, they are small! The basic laws of physics dictate the the more metal you have, the greater the gain. I like working with big; fullwave loops. Frankly, I wish I had enough space to put up a huge Rhombic! There"s a reason the ARRL logo uses a Rhombic as its outline! It works extremely well, and are known for their outstanding gain!
I think you got the RG402 cables here, one get them in blue and silver color, it is semi flexible so a little stiff right? It does mesure better in comparison to the the RG174 and RG316 i saw in a video. I am sooner or later gonna make this antenna i guess, i got lots of other things to do but time will come, i already has bought lots of parts for it included some 4pcs of silver RG402 3 foot long with SMA on each side, and i got a variety of boxes and also spare/repair fiberglass rods to tents and a tripod and enameles coil wire too.. and SMA to BNC adapters and things so i actually got everything but the pignose ferrite laying around now i think. Does it really matter much what ferrite i use? Can i use a ferrite ring or a rod instead for example? I think i saw someone did use a small cut off piece of a radio rod and was happy with that, i got lots of russian radio rods laying around for a ferrite sleeve antenna project some day. I got too much projects for my spare time lol, thats my problem :) But Youloop seems to pick up small stations from the big ones and lower the noice too, regarding the video of "PDXh0b0 Shack" who made it to get that christmas music radio station. So yeah, that one is high on the list of things to do. Yeah, that was the plan, to make it versatile for many different projects so it gets easy to swap out parts fast, to experiment and get something that works for this small ground level appartment i got at the bottom of a block, not the best place to recieve.. but thats what i got. I actually got a radio to recieve swedish radio from here.. it should not be possible to get that station with a ordinary radio, it is so far and i am kind of in the basement lol :) It was a cheap 5 dollar radio and it recieves FM better than the Tecsun 880 and Tecsun R-909 radio too.. both of these radios should recieve good after what they say lol, but no, no swedish channels on them at all :) So what did recieve that startion? A 5 USD radio called Indin BC-R22, with a CD9088 FM chip in it, same chip as the Gold Jinru KK-9 has but that wont recieve it nearly as good, i can hear it but it has way more noice. I got a open multi gpu cryptominer pc here and i like to listen to radio while that is in use, now in the summertime as a ordinary pc i am writing on now. So yeah, both a bad place to live and lots of noice source too makes this difficult to get things to recieve.. but im in for a challenge :) I am also gonna make a loop antenna i never has seen anyone build.. using 4pcs of 3+ foot long telescopic selfie sticks, i has already mounted them them together with their own screw mounts on top and bottom on each, they fit together by themself as a adjustable size square loop, kind of perfectly made for that too :) I must connect them stainless steel telescopic poles together of course with some wiring, but should become a adjustable loop antenna that way :) Size from 5-6 inch to 3 foot large. Just to see what variations in loop size does and if different sizes works better it is a nice thing i can experiment with :) And i can add a more selfie sticks to make it even bigger, i got 12 or something selfie sticks so the loop can get larger than my appartment allow lol. I just bought a few of them, nice large telescopic rods on them, perfect for some projects i did think :) Perhaps i will make a dipole of 2pcs of 4 foot telescopic antennas (120cm), nice chinese antenna one get on ebay.. and add a coulpe of selfie sticks and voila a large portable tripod standing dipole that becomes small for transport :) Or perhaps a ground plane antenna made of some wires and 4-7 selfie sticks and a 120cm on top.. that will fit on my terrace and can possibly be something.. time will tell what i will do but these are other projects of course than this Youloop :)
You are right to try it with a preamp, afterall all magnetic loop antennas come with a preamp. I suspect that if you tried any magnetic loop wthout the preamp results would be the same as the youloop.
Actually, tuned magnetic loops hear about as well as a dipole, but on a very narrow, around 5khz, bandwidth. Without a parallel capacitor they are broad and usually somewhat deaf.
The Phase Convertilation Box is not cutting it. And you ruined your not worth the paper it’s written on warranty by opening in up. lol 😂 Great video! I enjoy them a lot.
Thanks for sharing your antenna experiments. When you add the LNA, you may end up with an " MLA-30+ " I have one, and it works pretty good; but not as good as my old "Pixel Loop " which DX Engineering is not marketing as their RF-PRO-1B '73 Bob
@@bobclarie I have an MLA-30 and have no complaints with it at all. I will likely replace the lead in with better coax though, since I have seen reports that it would reduce noise. I also have a true Airspy Youloop ($30) and it works very well with my Airspy HF+ Discovery. If I were to look for anything further it would almost certainly be the Wellbrook FLX1530LN. It is around half the cost of the DX Engineering package, would likely perform as well or even better, and would be far more flexible in usage. I like the portability rather than having something permanently mounted. I do wonder if RG402, used in the Youloop, might work well in the FLX1530LN. It would certainly make a light package. Anyone have any idea if it would be compatible?
@@gkseifert Now you've got me interested in the Wellbrook antenna; boasting 28 db gain, nice. On my MLA-30+ I installed an F fitting in the outside box, and feed it with RG-6 quad shield.
My YouLoop (Airspy original) has almost no output. Only strong FM stations can be heard. My SDR is an SDRplay RSP1B with a noise level of -140DBm and a variable LNA. The 40/20/15 meter fan dipole provides many strong signals from 1 to 850 MHz. The YouLoop is a waste of money.
Perhaps it would be a good idea to help you with an active circuit so that it has more gain, for more sensitivity and perhaps the noise does not rise much either. Greetings
Hi Kevin, I’m sold on the You loop.. Maybe not so good on HF but for 160 on down is great.. The output from the 2 turn balanced loop feeds a variable cap and a few turns in to the primary of a torrid ( 75 mix ).. The secondary has enough turns to make 50 ohms R.. WSPR and the quiet loop have brought much DX on 630 meters to W1FRV…. So far I notice no difference on background noise if local ground is connected or not.. Today I should have some ‘J’ material and try the You Loop on 17.2 kc. And NAA etc.. Keep up the good work, hands on real ham… 73s de AA1A W1FRV W1NMF
Thanks for this Kevin..I've done some quick looking around, and can't seem to find how much coax I should use. I've been thinking of something like this for 160m...How much did you use on your homebrew? 73 Tim VE6PG/VE3IIM
I think I mentioned in the video that the large reduction I saw in noise on the boradcast band was mostly due to the direction of the loop nulling it. As for the subsequent test on the other HF bands, it's highly unlikely that *all* of the stations that went away on the loop were coming from the same directions. :-)
Nice video, thanks. Question, do you think you could have just used one continuous piece of coax and shorted out the coax at the SO239, wouldn’t that have the same effect electrically?
I'm getting ready to make my first antenna. I am new to amateur radio and have been able to ask many questions and get tons of different answers. I live in a mini home in a park. we are all 30ish feet apart. I have power lines all around including the main line behind my house 15 to 20 feet away with a post and a transformer 30 feet from the corner. From that transformer another main line runs parallel with that side of the house over to the next street. Needless to say tons of interference. It even affects my ability to just get local fm radio stations. I life listening to SW bands with my old world band receiver but recently I was given a RCI 2995 dx and plan on getting my license. do you think this would be a good antenna in may case? my main unit is 10 and I think 12 meter. I have had great luck getting some cb signals with this unit and my old magnetic cb antenna.
Pixel rx magloop uses this 'mobius' configuration. It has a low noise high gain preamp at base of loop, powered by DC injector. Compared to a 40m dipole it has slightly less sensitivity, say 1-2 S points, but has far lower local electrical background noise, typically 10-20dB below the dipole, mostly giving much better SNR. Like a dipole it has good high angle performance. Part of the trick is finding the right place to mount the loop, and keep it relatively low. Mine is mounted on a 2m pole in a 'quiet' spot in the garden about 15m from the house. The broadside null is aimed at the house to minimise pickup from SMPS. It is important to minimise RF pickup on the feed. I use buried RG6 quadshield with F connectors. Overall as a receive antenna I rate the Pixel loop's performance, particularly at 40 and 80m, as excellent both for local and DX signals.
I bought the chinese youloop for use with an SDRplay, it deff works better than a randon length of wire. Maybe you have an impeadance mismatch, could you measure the loop to see if it is 50 ohms?
If you have the new RSPdx you might not need to, but for the other SDRplay (like my Duo) then the Youloop really likes having an additional LNA preamp. There's lots available, I like the Nooelec LNA HF.
Financial reasons related to deteriorating health. I'm fine being alone. I sometimes prefer it. After more than 35 years of living in the noise and chaos of the city, I really enjoy the peace and quiet of being out in the desert.
@@loughkb Well you take care Kevin, I'm in the process of rebuilding an old Icom IC-740. I have a good take off to the states being on the Southwest coast of England. I'll let you know when I've got it all sorted and we might manage a qso! That would be pretty awesome (presuming you're qrv on 20m).
I modified a MLA-30+ to combine with a youloop and I found an un-modified MLA-30+ worked about the same with the unmodified one worked better. Still fun to play with. 73 de N2NLQ
I'm having good results with the smaller amplified MLA-30+ loop sitting on a 10' plastic pipe in the back yard away from the house and all its noise. It seems to null out most of the house noise when oriented properly. I can hear stations using it that I cannot hear with my random wire transmitting antennas. The bias-T in the SDRplay receiver powers it just fine and makes for a pretty simple monitoring setup.
Great video! I live in an urban area that is just the 'pits' for noise so I was glad to see this loop investigation. To me you had a better S/N ratio in the BC band; so maybe the loop is too large or possibly the transformer/loop-capacitance is limiting the upper frequencies. I would think that if you can achieve a S/N ratio on one frequency, you could replicate it on another. At 18:00 you compare the new loop but use a completely different reference-antenna; why not just stick with the doublet since it was the initial frame of reference? Then, you only demonstrated it on the 20 meter-band; it would have been interesting to see if it had the same 'good' performance as your HB one on the BC band. Finally, is it possible to unplug the solar charger during the brief times you are conduction these tests, as along with the 'pips', it probably has some contribution to the noise floor?
The commercial version. Coult you join the top with a female to female and do away with the short and see how that perform? I guess it would be like your old hulaloop minus the preamp
The miniwhip is not really that kind of amplifier. It's a whole different animal that, as I continue to learn about it, more or less balances a system that includes the feeding coax as part of the antenna.
More to experiment??? What abt 9 to 1 -or- 16 to 1 (Z) / 3 to 1 -or- 4 to 1 windings ratio... in bottom box... would that help senitivity??? Thanx 4 ur Videos
Ah! I also have those pesky spikes (Approx/ 40 something khz apart. Very stable and pulsing about 2 Hz when listening on FM.) which you describe as coming from your solar charge controller. About 100' away there is a roof-full of solar panels and I had guessed at an inverter or now, following your remark, the charge controller. On 80 they are unbearable but don't come much higher than 6 Mhz. Still a problem on on 5 Mhz and also on 1.9 Mhz. Do you know if I can get info. on suppressing them? They render 80 and 160 almost useless.. You are the 1st person I ever heard, acknowledge what they are. REf the youloop, would it respond to becoming an active loop? Maybe you already did that and I haven't found your video yet? 73 G3NBY.
Yes. I also mentioned in the video that rotating it edge on to the power lines only reduced the noise from them slightly, unlike when it was parallel to them. Nearly all of the CW signals went away on 20 meters. I seriously doubt all of those stations were coming from the same direction! ;-)
@@loughkb Ok got it! Thanks for your videos it helps to keep my brain in HAM mode. I have a major problem with noise at my QTH. Something in or near the 11meter band is doing major damage to 10 meters and a couple of other bands.
Hi Kevin, I do have two pieces of youloop from rtl-sdr the original stuff. I was thinking how to connect them in a cross loop configuration? 73! DE1CTL 🙂
Then you would eliminate one advantage to a loop. There would be no null direction and you could no longer rotate the loop to tune out a strong local noise source.
What about using the loop with the amp from a MLA-30+ to boost the signal? Also, in case the 1:1 transformer is hurting the high frequency response, what about trying it without the transformer?
are their any expectations this antenna would work anywhere near a real antenna? There isn't much of a capture of an electromagnetic wave. Noise floor is down cause everything is down, haha
@@loughkb It might be higher loss wound that way but hard to notice on receive with the already large losses. Interesting results in any case, thanks for your efforts.
@@lambdaprog Kevin is not that kind of a person but he is a good guy and honest. The reason why he got the Chinese knockof is not malice, he probably had no idea where to get the real one.
prog, are you involved with the original design? There's really not much to it, so I don't see any obvious problems with the chinese version or my build. If you are aware of an issue there, let me know. I'm not done looking at it. Simply tossing a veiled insult my way isn't productive.
One thing about loop antennas: you have to point them to where the location of the transmitter whose signal you want to listen to. So either you spin the atenna manually or use a rotator. I have a YouLoop antenna and for MW it is a wonderfull antenna. I was able to listen to an AM station from South Africa only 2kHz below strong signals coming in from stations from my state in southern Brasil and from adjacent countries here in south America. I used an Airspy HF+ Discovery SDR receiver.
Hi. Min 0:42 schematic: The yellow and blue wires are covered by the shield so they are protected for picking up signal (ideally, with a good quality cable). On top, the loop's shield, that is the only exposed part able for picking up signal, is grounded in the middle with the coax shield (the black wire that goes down vertically), that means that any signal picked up by the only exposed part of the loop is killed to ground. The yellow and blue wires are living in a shield coffin. That's why it does not work. Make this test: Forget about the yellow and blue wires, remove the box on top, split the shield on bottom in two symmetrical parts and connect each isolated side to the balum. Remove that black vertical line going to the coaxial shield. You should be able to pick more signals. However, it is now a dipole antenna with two circular shaped arcs, that are canceling signals each other vectorially speaking. That's why I don't like loops.
I experimented building one of these low-Q passive loop receiving antennas a few years ago and one thing I learned is they absolutely require a preamp. Add a good LNA an it will work great.
During the day it does require a preamp. But at night, if you're into LW and MW it works very well. I was able to tune a station from Cape Town, South Africa which is almost 6,400km distant, despite being just 2kHz down below the closest station (here in Brazil, MW stations are 10kHz apart and in Africa are 9kHz). A friend of mine built two active antennae based on the YouLoop but with a much smaller diameter. They are just great.
@@juliocesarpereira4325 How did you have the antenna positioned?
@@juliocesarpereira4325hi frpm Cape Town. I presume you heard Magic 828? Their txer is a few kilometres from my home. So i also built a youloop mainly for MW, just like you. The diameter of mine is about 1.5m. it works quite well, and the s/n ratio is definitely better than random long wire antennas.
Kevin your video raises more questions.
1) the YouLoop is very directional.
Did you rotate for each signal or is it oriented the same as your reference antenna.
2) these are non resonant (?) How does the diameter affect the signal levels?
3) Horizontal would be interesting also, note polarization effects?
3) it would be educational to actually record the levels (v dbm)
4) I note the Chinese version 1:1 transformer was not 'correctly" wound?
73 NO1SE
It seems a more efficient low noise receive antenna would be a nice long beverage wire antenna, 4ft off the ground (you have the space for it out in the desert)
This is where a high wattage soldering iron wins the day. Lots of heat, get in quick, and then get out. Doesn’t get the insulation hot enough to begin to melt. I always keep my old 250 watt Weller soldering gun around for this work.
Excellent Video! Thanks for showing the attenuation across the bands.
Interesting for limiting the noise on the broadcast stations. A good test non the less. Look forward to how you work the pre-amp into that loop.
I predict I am the eleventeenth person to point out that these antennas are great if your receiver is very very sensitive, basically like the Airspy HF+ Discovery, but for the majority of other receivers in my experience, you need to use an LNA preamp because it's not the antenna that is deaf. It's your radio.
I have a 30dB LNA when I use mine with my SDRplay Duo, but the HF+ Discovery doesn't want it at all. If your radio wants teeny tiny signals then the naked Youloop is great. If your radio wants old school big copper signals then you will need the preamp
The YouLoop product description page on the Airspy website says
"Compatibility
Airspy HF+ Discovery (Recommended)
Airspy HF+ Dual Port (with R3 shorted)
Any other SDR with MDS
That coax is RG402 (by the looks of it) semi rigid, PTFE all around (that is why there is no print on it, nothing sticks to Teflon ;) ). Anyway the thing is not a total loss, you got some good coax out of it.
My homemade loop antenna works always better than my at Banggood bought Youloop (I have the HDYloop). It seems that many good looking antennas are only a fake. Great video.
Thank you for this really good video. I had many questions about them and how to make one and you answered all in one video 🎉😊
Hi Kevin, Great video. Question: Would you get less attenuation at higher freq's if you used type 43 core for the 1:1 balun? Thank You, N3SWL
Yes. In the upcoming further experiments with the design, I'll be changing the transformer first.
Be interesting to see a pre amp involved. I’ve had some good SWL results with a Youloop and live in a noisy town centre. They’re inexpensive like the MLA 30 active loop and get you going if you are new to the hobby with restricted outdoor space.
Actually, it's not really differentiating between E or H fields since both couple to an antenna equally regardless of configuration. What it seems to be doing is that the gap allows for it to be balanced such that common mode signals are suppressed in the antenna system. I believe Owen Duffy has a good explanation from a mathematical/theoretical perspective.
I bought the original YouLoop and the results are similar but I need to point out that when I switch from a vertical to the YouLoop I have to adjust the gain. My vertical has some gain but the YouLoop has zero gain so when I use it and adjust the gain in my software I get less noise and more signals! So far, the YouLoop is my favorite for MW on up to about FM broadcast. It does well even higher but I have little interest in anything above FM radio. Did I mention the vertical is mounted outside on a mast and the YouLoop is inside and next to me?
I would like to see the same 2 antennas side by side but adjusted for maximum performance on each.
I enjoy your videos!
Great information and explained easy enough that even I could understand. I am so good at soldering, that I never mock anyone else's. :-)
Serving Suggestion: Use crimp connector ferrules instead of soldering - or in addition to soldering the coax ends. Two ferrules will do it. Crimp and solder before shrink tubing it. It will be much stronger and easier to solder the center to braid connections. Clever eh? Nice video - clearly and briefly narrated. I wonder how it would work on HF with a larger loop placed far away from the dwelling. I also wonder whether you could use a reverse polarity UHF/PL-359 or other type of reverse phase connector/adapter to mate the two loops without having to solder them like you did. Just thinking aloud. GOOD JOB, OM. TT
Hi Kevin,
Yeah, that AM station you were seeing on 660 kHz is most likely KTNN, the Flame-Thrower - 50,000 Watt station in Window Rock, AZ.
It is about 300 miles to the east of you.
Ironically, I can't pick it up well down here in Tucson; too many mtns. in between & too much local noise.
Now, what I found interesting was the non-10kHz spaced signals; like the one at about 603 kHz. As that may be a station in the Caribbean or central/S. America as they use 9 kHz spacings (or sometimes 5 or 8). Therefore with your SDR PLAY or your even more sensitive 7300/705, you should be able to pull it in. Let us know what it is - thanks.
The problem with those small loops is that... well, they are small! The basic laws of physics dictate the the more metal you have, the greater the gain.
I like working with big; fullwave loops. Frankly, I wish I had enough space to put up a huge Rhombic! There"s a reason the ARRL logo uses a Rhombic as its outline! It works extremely well, and are known for their outstanding gain!
I think you got the RG402 cables here, one get them in blue and silver color, it is semi flexible so a little stiff right? It does mesure better in comparison to the the RG174 and RG316 i saw in a video.
I am sooner or later gonna make this antenna i guess, i got lots of other things to do but time will come, i already has bought lots of parts for it included some 4pcs of silver RG402 3 foot long with SMA on each side, and i got a variety of boxes and also spare/repair fiberglass rods to tents and a tripod and enameles coil wire too.. and SMA to BNC adapters and things so i actually got everything but the pignose ferrite laying around now i think.
Does it really matter much what ferrite i use?
Can i use a ferrite ring or a rod instead for example?
I think i saw someone did use a small cut off piece of a radio rod and was happy with that, i got lots of russian radio rods laying around for a ferrite sleeve antenna project some day.
I got too much projects for my spare time lol, thats my problem :)
But Youloop seems to pick up small stations from the big ones and lower the noice too, regarding the video of "PDXh0b0 Shack" who made it to get that christmas music radio station.
So yeah, that one is high on the list of things to do.
Yeah, that was the plan, to make it versatile for many different projects so it gets easy to swap out parts fast, to experiment and get something that works for this small ground level appartment i got at the bottom of a block, not the best place to recieve.. but thats what i got.
I actually got a radio to recieve swedish radio from here.. it should not be possible to get that station with a ordinary radio, it is so far and i am kind of in the basement lol :)
It was a cheap 5 dollar radio and it recieves FM better than the Tecsun 880 and Tecsun R-909 radio too.. both of these radios should recieve good after what they say lol, but no, no swedish channels on them at all :) So what did recieve that startion? A 5 USD radio called Indin BC-R22, with a CD9088 FM chip in it, same chip as the Gold Jinru KK-9 has but that wont recieve it nearly as good, i can hear it but it has way more noice. I got a open multi gpu cryptominer pc here and i like to listen to radio while that is in use, now in the summertime as a ordinary pc i am writing on now. So yeah, both a bad place to live and lots of noice source too makes this difficult to get things to recieve.. but im in for a challenge :)
I am also gonna make a loop antenna i never has seen anyone build.. using 4pcs of 3+ foot long telescopic selfie sticks, i has already mounted them them together with their own screw mounts on top and bottom on each, they fit together by themself as a adjustable size square loop, kind of perfectly made for that too :) I must connect them stainless steel telescopic poles together of course with some wiring, but should become a adjustable loop antenna that way :) Size from 5-6 inch to 3 foot large.
Just to see what variations in loop size does and if different sizes works better it is a nice thing i can experiment with :)
And i can add a more selfie sticks to make it even bigger, i got 12 or something selfie sticks so the loop can get larger than my appartment allow lol.
I just bought a few of them, nice large telescopic rods on them, perfect for some projects i did think :)
Perhaps i will make a dipole of 2pcs of 4 foot telescopic antennas (120cm), nice chinese antenna one get on ebay.. and add a coulpe of selfie sticks and voila a large portable tripod standing dipole that becomes small for transport :)
Or perhaps a ground plane antenna made of some wires and 4-7 selfie sticks and a 120cm on top.. that will fit on my terrace and can possibly be something.. time will tell what i will do but these are other projects of course than this Youloop :)
You are right to try it with a preamp, afterall all magnetic loop antennas come with a preamp. I suspect that if you tried any magnetic loop wthout the preamp results would be the same as the youloop.
Actually, tuned magnetic loops hear about as well as a dipole, but on a very narrow, around 5khz, bandwidth. Without a parallel capacitor they are broad and usually somewhat deaf.
The Phase Convertilation Box is not cutting it. And you ruined your not worth the paper it’s written on warranty by opening in up. lol 😂
Great video! I enjoy them a lot.
What a great idea.
Thanks man, great video
Thanks for the info and look forward to the pre-amp experiment. 73 es de N5XS
love your no nonsense approach to all your videos
Thanks for sharing your antenna experiments. When you add the LNA, you may end up with an " MLA-30+ " I have one, and it works pretty good; but not as good as my old "Pixel Loop " which DX Engineering is not marketing as their RF-PRO-1B '73 Bob
Five hundred and fifty dollars!!!!! No thanks DX Engineering.
@@gkseifert I Agree. The MLA-30 is only around $35, a fun antenna to experiment with . . . '73 Bob
@@bobclarie I have an MLA-30 and have no complaints with it at all. I will likely replace the lead in with better coax though, since I have seen reports that it would reduce noise. I also have a true Airspy Youloop ($30) and it works very well with my Airspy HF+ Discovery. If I were to look for anything further it would almost certainly be the Wellbrook FLX1530LN. It is around half the cost of the DX Engineering package, would likely perform as well or even better, and would be far more flexible in usage. I like the portability rather than having something permanently mounted.
I do wonder if RG402, used in the Youloop, might work well in the FLX1530LN. It would certainly make a light package. Anyone have any idea if it would be compatible?
@@gkseifert Now you've got me interested in the Wellbrook antenna; boasting 28 db gain, nice. On my MLA-30+ I installed an F fitting in the outside box, and feed it with RG-6 quad shield.
My YouLoop (Airspy original) has almost no output. Only strong FM stations can be heard. My SDR is an SDRplay RSP1B with a noise level of -140DBm and a variable LNA. The 40/20/15 meter fan dipole provides many strong signals from 1 to 850 MHz. The YouLoop is a waste of money.
Perhaps it would be a good idea to help you with an active circuit so that it has more gain, for more sensitivity and perhaps the noise does not rise much either. Greetings
Hi Kevin, I’m sold on the You loop.. Maybe not so good on HF but for 160 on down is great.. The output from the 2 turn balanced loop feeds a variable cap and a few turns in to the primary of a torrid ( 75 mix ).. The secondary has enough turns to make 50 ohms R..
WSPR and the quiet loop have brought much DX on 630 meters to W1FRV…. So far I notice no difference on background noise if local ground is connected or not.. Today I should have some ‘J’ material and try the You Loop on 17.2 kc. And NAA etc.. Keep up the good work, hands on real ham… 73s de AA1A W1FRV W1NMF
Thanks for this Kevin..I've done some quick looking around, and can't seem to find how much coax I should use. I've been thinking of something like this for 160m...How much did you use on your homebrew?
73
Tim
VE6PG/VE3IIM
It's about 4 ft. diameter, so around 150 inches or 12.6 feet of coax.
Isn’t the loop more directional? Your tests on specific stations might improve if you rotates it?
I think I mentioned in the video that the large reduction I saw in noise on the boradcast band was mostly due to the direction of the loop nulling it.
As for the subsequent test on the other HF bands, it's highly unlikely that *all* of the stations that went away on the loop were coming from the same directions. :-)
@@loughkb ah cool, thanks for the info
That's impressive.
I find mine works well with the SDR with a preamp
Yep. That's the next part of this experiment. Making it an active antenna.
I wish I could give you two thumbs up. One for the wonderful content 👍 , one more for using metric system 😊👍
Nice video, thanks. Question, do you think you could have just used one continuous piece of coax and shorted out the coax at the SO239, wouldn’t that have the same effect electrically?
That would be a different antenna. It's a mobious loop as is, like a circular folded dipole, sort of.
I'm getting ready to make my first antenna. I am new to amateur radio and have been able to ask many questions and get tons of different answers. I live in a mini home in a park. we are all 30ish feet apart. I have power lines all around including the main line behind my house 15 to 20 feet away with a post and a transformer 30 feet from the corner. From that transformer another main line runs parallel with that side of the house over to the next street. Needless to say tons of interference. It even affects my ability to just get local fm radio stations. I life listening to SW bands with my old world band receiver but recently I was given a RCI 2995 dx and plan on getting my license. do you think this would be a good antenna in may case? my main unit is 10 and I think 12 meter. I have had great luck getting some cb signals with this unit and my old magnetic cb antenna.
Pixel rx magloop uses this 'mobius' configuration. It has a low noise high gain preamp at base of loop, powered by DC injector.
Compared to a 40m dipole it has slightly less sensitivity, say 1-2 S points, but has far lower local electrical background noise, typically 10-20dB below the dipole, mostly giving much better SNR. Like a dipole it has good high angle performance.
Part of the trick is finding the right place to mount the loop, and keep it relatively low. Mine is mounted on a 2m pole in a 'quiet' spot in the garden about 15m from the house. The broadside null is aimed at the house to minimise pickup from SMPS.
It is important to minimise RF pickup on the feed. I use buried RG6 quadshield with F connectors.
Overall as a receive antenna I rate the Pixel loop's performance, particularly at 40 and 80m, as excellent both for local and DX signals.
I bought the chinese youloop for use with an SDRplay, it deff works better than a randon length of wire. Maybe you have an impeadance mismatch, could you measure the loop to see if it is 50 ohms?
If you have the new RSPdx you might not need to, but for the other SDRplay (like my Duo) then the Youloop really likes having an additional LNA preamp. There's lots available, I like the Nooelec LNA HF.
Hope you're well Kevin. Why did you give up your house? You're all alone in a campervan.
God bless you, I enjoy all your videos.
Financial reasons related to deteriorating health.
I'm fine being alone. I sometimes prefer it.
After more than 35 years of living in the noise and chaos of the city, I really enjoy the peace and quiet of being out in the desert.
@@loughkb Well you take care Kevin, I'm in the process of rebuilding an old Icom IC-740. I have a good take off to the states being on the Southwest coast of England. I'll let you know when I've got it all sorted and we might manage a qso! That would be pretty awesome (presuming you're qrv on 20m).
I modified a MLA-30+ to combine with a youloop and I found an un-modified MLA-30+ worked about the same with the unmodified one worked better. Still fun to play with.
73 de N2NLQ
I'm having good results with the smaller amplified MLA-30+ loop sitting on a 10' plastic pipe in the back yard away from the house and all its noise. It seems to null out most of the house noise when oriented properly. I can hear stations using it that I cannot hear with my random wire transmitting antennas. The bias-T in the SDRplay receiver powers it just fine and makes for a pretty simple monitoring setup.
Thank You very much!👍
Great video! I live in an urban area that is just the 'pits' for noise so I was glad to see this loop investigation.
To me you had a better S/N ratio in the BC band; so maybe the loop is too large or possibly the transformer/loop-capacitance is limiting the upper frequencies. I would think that if you can achieve a S/N ratio on one frequency, you could replicate it on another.
At 18:00 you compare the new loop but use a completely different reference-antenna; why not just stick with the doublet since it was the initial frame of reference? Then, you only demonstrated it on the 20 meter-band; it would have been interesting to see if it had the same 'good' performance as your HB one on the BC band.
Finally, is it possible to unplug the solar charger during the brief times you are conduction these tests, as along with the 'pips', it probably has some contribution to the noise floor?
Tried you loop antenna with tescun pl 880 doesn't work with radio, only works with sdr radios
The commercial version. Coult you join the top with a female to female and do away with the short and see how that perform? I guess it would be like your old hulaloop minus the preamp
Without the crossover, it would no longer be a mobious loop. It would be a different antenna.
Thanks for sharing 👍.
Could you incorporate the loop into the Mini-Whip antenna you have to use it like a preamp?
The miniwhip is not really that kind of amplifier. It's a whole different animal that, as I continue to learn about it, more or less balances a system that includes the feeding coax as part of the antenna.
@@loughkb If interested, I can send you one of my Hi Z preamp prototypes.
Sure. I'd enjoy having a look at it and trying it out. Email me on my public email listed on qrz.com and I'll send you my mailing address.
Mini whip preamp is very high impedance, mag loop has comparatively low impedance.
What I am thinking is a insulated box with two coax connectors. Then do the cross connection on the connectors
Obviously I commented before the video was done
More to experiment??? What abt 9 to 1 -or- 16 to 1 (Z) / 3 to 1 -or- 4 to 1 windings ratio... in bottom box... would that help senitivity??? Thanx 4 ur Videos
Ah! I also have those pesky spikes (Approx/ 40 something khz apart. Very stable and pulsing about 2 Hz when listening on FM.)
which you describe as coming from your solar charge controller. About 100' away there is a roof-full of solar panels and I had guessed
at an inverter or now, following your remark, the charge controller.
On 80 they are unbearable but don't come much higher than 6 Mhz.
Still a problem on on 5 Mhz and also on 1.9 Mhz.
Do you know if I can get info. on suppressing them?
They render 80 and 160 almost useless.. You are the 1st person I ever heard, acknowledge what they are.
REf the youloop, would it respond to becoming an active loop?
Maybe you already did that and I haven't found your video yet?
73 G3NBY.
Wasn't a complete loss. The cost was probably worth it for the project boxes, connectors, and coax.
Isn't the loop antenna directional? Did you test rotating and seeing if any of the signals come up out of the dirt?
Yes. I also mentioned in the video that rotating it edge on to the power lines only reduced the noise from them slightly, unlike when it was parallel to them.
Nearly all of the CW signals went away on 20 meters. I seriously doubt all of those stations were coming from the same direction! ;-)
@@loughkb Ok got it! Thanks for your videos it helps to keep my brain in HAM mode. I have a major problem with noise at my QTH. Something in or near the 11meter band is doing major damage to 10 meters and a couple of other bands.
Hi Kevin, I do have two pieces of youloop from rtl-sdr the original stuff. I was thinking how to connect them in a cross loop configuration? 73! DE1CTL 🙂
Then you would eliminate one advantage to a loop. There would be no null direction and you could no longer rotate the loop to tune out a strong local noise source.
@@loughkb Thanks for explaining. Now I do understand better. 🙂👍
What about using the loop with the amp from a MLA-30+ to boost the signal? Also, in case the 1:1 transformer is hurting the high frequency response, what about trying it without the transformer?
The MLA-30+ would work but with the store bought Youloop you can get inline LNA preamps that work great.
@@zenpharaohs Can you name some amps?
@@bonumsignum7017 noodles Lana hf is a good one
Nooelec, not noodles
@@zenpharaohs tnx
are their any expectations this antenna would work anywhere near a real antenna? There isn't much of a capture of an electromagnetic wave. Noise floor is down cause everything is down, haha
Thanks Mr.Wizard! Hope all is well.
⚔️🇺🇸⚔️
Disappointing antenna. Could you try receiving some wspr?
Engineering is hard.
did you notice how they wound that transformer (on the commercial one)? de w6akb
Yep. And I wondered if it was going to be worse than my scratch built one. But it actually seemed to perform about the same.
@@loughkb It might be higher loss wound that way but hard to notice on receive with the already large losses. Interesting results in any case, thanks for your efforts.
A Piece of Six Inch PVC Pipe over the over the Solder Point will Make it ever Stronger,
Try Mounting it Herizontal,
how'd they screw it up?
you'd be surprised.
😄
your video is awesome.
This just proves that the loop is not worth getting or using .
This means you build just as good as the Chinese knockoffs.
Help the guy out, send him the real thing, it's good PR ...
He could have asked.
@@lambdaprog Kevin is not that kind of a person but he is a good guy and honest. The reason why he got the Chinese knockof is not malice, he probably had no idea where to get the real one.
prog, are you involved with the original design?
There's really not much to it, so I don't see any obvious problems with the chinese version or my build. If you are aware of an issue there, let me know. I'm not done looking at it.
Simply tossing a veiled insult my way isn't productive.
@@loughkb He is the author of SDR# and Airspy. Imagine if your design was reviewed but the reviewer used a Chinese copy ...
looks more like a circular dummy load for rx!.,was going to build one but dont think i will bother!.