Fun fact - Horacio Pagani used to personally give factory tours - I know because around 2000 or 2001 I visited Pagani HQ in Modena just hoping to get a photo of a C12. I told the person at the front office I was from Japan and wanted to see a Pagani and the man couldn't speak English very well, so he was like "uno momento" and walked away to get someone (I assumed). About five minutes later, Horacio Pagani himself came out! He too didn't speak English very well, but for about 30 minutes we somehow broke through the language barrier and 30 minutes after that, he was taking me for a drive in a C12! We got a few miles out, he stopped and gestured for me to drive! He gave me instructions where to turn and I very gently and nervously drove the car back; he even gestured for me to give it a few healthy rpms. Best Italian driving experience ever. I still have a photo of Horacio and me at Pagani HQ, simply unforgettable. Mr Pagani, if you ever read this, thank you.
Wow you got to drive 🤯 Yeah, I had a similar experience but I was not old enough to drive 😂 He took us for a tour of his original factory many years back. It was a great experience. Now I am building my dream V12 supercar with the OG zonda engine 😎 since I am a few penny's short of a real zonda 😂
I would be overrun with endorphins for a week after that, WOW. I was (all three of us were) extatic after seeing a test Utopia making rounds around the factory. Getting a tour by Horacio Pagani himself AND A DRIVE in my (still) favorite hypercar is just incomprehensible.
He replied to me with tons of good info when I was asking about how to import a W123 from Germany to the US. Eventually I used the shipper that he recommended.
Driving the F50 and Zonda... Man you guys are really doing it rough these days....thanks for taking it for the team and driving them so we don't have to realise how empty our lives are... 😭
Just insured my x308 XJ8 through Hagerty and when the rep asked why i chose them I told them it was because of the content they are creating, specifically you two. Keep it up!
This is perhaps the best podcast episode I've ever heard. I'd have gladly paid for the privilege. It just occured to me that I didn't once think "it's a shame they're not doing these reviews from within the actual cars, like all other reviews". Why, because the depth of analysis is soooo much better than anything out there. We can see and hear the car in hundreds of other videos, but this depth of analysis is unique ! Thanks guys ❤❤
just found about this channel, and after 15 mins i think to myself how tha fuc isnt this channel with milion subscibers? Jason is a natural talker and legit funny, hes great in a podcast host, yeah lets get this channel to grow boyz
Old 911 brakes are absolutely perfect for heal and toe because you can just put so much pressure into the brake pedal that the small amount of release or modulation you inherently make whilst healing across to the accelerator makes no difference.. this is exactly how I want a brake pedal.. More manufacturers need to get behind this.. nobody needs super assisted, long travel mushy brakes.
We know of shared parts in low volume supercars and hypercars from yesteryears, but the Zonda sharing the Lancia Ypsilon's guage cluster is off the charts, because look at how stylised it is to beyond recognition.
Zondas were once 200k-300k people seem to forget that. Full carbon, built from 0 in a decent shed with a bunch of people and a limited budget. Of course there are parts from other cars. Ferrari did that for decades and they were gigantic at the time compared with Pagani at any point of Zonda.
Loving the informational inserts (and how long they're held) as much as the hilarious ones. The F-50 was the only other supercar I ever fell in love with as a kid. The first was the Dodge Viper, the car that brought me into cars. It wouldn't be until I was in my 30's that I'd meet another supercar I felt incomplete not having.
Between this and Chris Harris and Friends its very hard to pick the best podcast. I think they both share the number one spot covering everything motoring. I would whole heartly enjoy a crossover episode between the lot of them.
@@ProWhiteAntiJew I find Harris interesting but I don't find his podcast interesting, the disconnect caused by it being remote just makes it not work for me.
Pagani Zonda F Roadster has been a dream car ever since I saw the Top Gear episode. Imagine if Paganis were still under 500k Heavy emphasis on dream. Edit: glad the Zonda was a let down, now I don’t have to feel down about never being able to own one 😅
It's my dream car too 😍 that's why I am building my dream V12 supercar with the OG zonda engine 😎 I belive the car they drove has a heavily suppressed exhaust system 🤔
I would love seeing/hearing Harry Metcalfe as a guest. He used to own a Zonda, current Testarossa/Countac owner and he has different opinions/experiences to you. Which is always a good thing.
I was one of those kids who dismissed the F50 as an "ugly car" and "way worse than the F40", but the more I hear about it, the more I think it's a masterpiece.
Just the collection of specs, that is the F50, could make for an all-time great supercar. The fact that its a Ferrari is just a cherry on top. And unlike the Zonda, which is very similar, spec-wise, it is a well executed package, more than the sum of its parts.
@@titaniummechanism3214 Except, let's be real, for the looks. Tbf, it looks damn good from the rear. Front end, however, is.....unfortunate. It is, therefore, a damn good thing that the rest of the car is so good as to render the looks irrelevant.
I appreciate that you're having this open conversation. A lot of the time the creator(s) of something will take criticism personally, which is natural after spending SO MUCH time on something. But like when we would do our tests/exams and get them back with a bunch of red ink on them, talking about things like this I think is useful to improve the breed. Some things are down to opinion, others are often down to legislation etc. so criticism should always be constructive, and improvements will undoubtedly benefit future cars and buyers. The persons who might get offended by criticism and say "how dare you sit there and say it's not amazing, you don't even have enough money to buy the car" are mostly unwilling to admit to some flaws or consider the margin for improvement. An engineer could spend thousands of hours and millions to build something like an Eiffel Tower but it might not be a great creation due to some major or minor flaws. But it's also important to be self-confident about something. Just because somebody criticizes it, does not mean it's bad. The criticism might give some ideas to quietly improve something (without even admitting it!). Keep up the good work :-)
So I remember the F50 when it came out. I think part of the reasoning for the price difference is that the F50 was considered to be a "flop" when it came out. I did not have better performance than its predecessor, I remember magazines saying it was "softer" than the F40 as well and its design was polarizing. It unfortunately also came out after the F1 which could also have hurt its valuation up until recently.
It seems like everyone who has driven this specific car with it's silenced exhaust has had a poor experience. The Zonda engine normally dominates 100% you guys need to drive a zonda thats not been tampered with 👍 I am using the mercedes m120 V12 for my project 😎 Don't forget the Zonda is an old car now guys. It was groundbreaking when it came out.
As you guys mentioned, the F50 is very much the drivers vehicle. It'll do everything you ask it too. Major reason why the Pagni is more than the F50, is because of its rarity. Very few Zonda's compared to F50. We're talking about very small fractions now. Not to mention the Pagni is alot more bespoke. Bespoke for all the "wrong" reasons, but still bespoke. 🙂 Personally, between the 2 I would always take the F50. It's been my favorite Ferrari (and the only one I would ever want to own if I ever won the lottery) since it's debut. Alot of people put it down and was disappointed by it. I responded oppositely. Unfortuantely as more time goes by, the price of this beauty keeps going up and up.. Forza Ferrari!! 🙂
I attended an event at Lagu na Seca 4-5 years ago where an F50 was on track with a McLaren F1 and Mercedes CLK GTR. The F50’s engine sounded so much better than the other cars it wasn’t close. I’m not sure if the car was straight piped but it became my ultimate car after the day.
@jason, vacuum brake boosters are removed from rally cars because you run out of boost assist the second time you touch the brake pedal and the pedal becomes rock hard. The master cylinders are then sized appropriately so you get a reasonable pedal effort each time you need it. It has nothing to do with your left foot not being trained to brake. Keep up the good work!
The Zonda "nero" is one of the older versions... It was restomod ed to look like a Zonda tricolore, I don't know about the chassis but I know it had to complain noise regulations of California... You did NOT experienced a Zonda, the Zonda was not even sold in the USA...
I'd love to watch a comparison of Zonda to SL73 AMG. (Perhaps there is an episode idea: wolves in wolves clothing? e.g. 550i. Tenet quote: "We need a fast car that doesn't look fast.")
Does anyone remember which Episode Jason had his rant on about the ID4? Where the executives got fired, the crash structure changes, etc, etc. I for the life of me can't find it
@@TheCarmudgeonShow Oh sweet as, thanks a bunch. It's a fascinating story and it's the only place that I know of where a lot of those pieces are all in one place. I'd even be open for a pt.2!
I vote for a best engine sound video. Where they bring 3 clips of each, 4cyl, 6cly etc. To argue. Then Derek brings a motorbike twin and wins it all. 😂
Journalists were off the opinion that the F40 was faster then Ferrari said, Ferrari underrated the horsepower by some margin. Only a few years later the F50 came out and they didn't see the value because the speed was similar and by the 90's they wanted some luxury's in such an expensive car. Ferrari said the topspeed of the F50 was 1km/h higher then the F40, which was probably not true. As a 90's kid if prefer the F50 because it was in Need for Speed II, still have a 1:18 scale model in my living room. :)
it's not a fair review - at the very least the review needs qualifiers on the current state of this Zonda. Trust me - it should still be one of your hero cars
@@HypercarEnthusiast-n9o It's starting to become a trend with one of the Carmudgeons, tbh. Jason's usually alright but he's also the type of person to repeatedly mount targeted assaults on the _Honda S2000,_ which I STILL don't understand.
Just started listening to the show, love it. I was listening to an episode about buying a Porsche and driving it across the border through customs, what did you do about a license plate???
there's like so many special editions zondas, including the one you drive, so I feel like it depends in terms of how they sound and feel. Maybe drive a zonda F or cinque sometime, I don't hear bad things about them
After listening to the entire discussion, I'm glad the F50 survives as a hero car from my childhood. I'm also very curious if the Zonda is very setup-dependent. The clip you played did sound very muted, and the comments about Horacio's spec of Hyuara and Zonda make me think that there is an exciting car in the Zonda, but not in the spec / setup that you had avaiable. I'm also STUNNED by the dimensions of the Zonda! It's the same length as a Supra?! That really *is* tiny!!
a suggestion for a topic: story of Steven McQueen filming for Ford Puma gen 1 and its Yamaha Collab to build one of the coolest NA 4 cylinders in a car. also handles like a dream with effortless correction on power slides in wet. yes you heard me right, it power slides with all 4 wheels, Tiff Needell and Org Top gear gave it very high prase. cheers
The zonda deseign is absolutly amazing, but stock its just ok. It needs to be more agressivly tuned but not pushed too far. It really shines on the 880 hp range. 1200 hp is range is execessive and the car is too light for this, downforce works, but it has diminishing return at that much power / weight ratio.
The f50 is better than thr f40 and ive been saying it for NEARLY....3 decades. You either die a a hero ir live long enough to become the villain... Ir something like that
The F50 sounds more like the type of supercar, I'd be in to. Chris Harris did a wonderful video, where he drove the F40 and F50 back to back on track and he prefers the F40. That video is well worth a watch btw!
Your description of the disappointments you had in the Zonda so many parallels with my experience with an MGF TF. It’s quite funny. Are mid engine cars harder to “get right”?
My 308 GT4 does not have particularly heavy shifting......maybe a little higher than my MR2 turbo. But not high at all, but it has ~60,000 miles on it, maybe it gets easier over time. Also shifts into 2nd fine when cold.
I think you two drove a bad version of the car. I was at Sebring race way for a track day and there was a Zonda there. you could hear it going down the front and back straight and it sounded amazing. was that Zonda set up for California emissions? if so that could be why it didn't sound good.
In an era of collectibility and not in drivability, I'm actually not surprised anything Horatio puts out would command and exorbitant amount of money. I think of his vehicles as art exhibits that happen to have an engine
What does it say about me that I can hear you guys speak for days about GTIs, and w201s and diesel Mercedes, but I had to listen to this twice since I couldn't pay any attention the first time? Actually want to know what you all think
I just hope that these guys remember that a Zonda and everything about it would be the fastest, most amazingly beautiful and artful, powerful, most aggressive sounding car that anybody watching this would ever sit in. It would be the best driving best handling car we could ever imagine. Unless we drove supercars for a living. Then a $9m Zonda is just "meh".
I just came back from the tour of the Pagani Factory in italy, mixed emotions.. I also went on a tour of the lamborghini, Ducati and Maserati factories, and although, I understand that those are big factories and Pagani is a small operation, I cannot justify the price of the Pagani being 10 times over the price of the Lamborghini, unless your bank account ends in multiple multiple zeros.. What I saw at Pagani was a bunch of Middle aged women hand carving carbon fiber and bunch of young kids gluing interior pieces together, also there is no parking around Pagani Factory and if you do find a parking spot there are signs everywhere not to leave any valuables in your car, insane
Well well Sam from STG held the same sentiments about the zonda. Lewis Hamilton said it was the worst handling car he owned. They values are probably artificially inflated TBH...the factory owns alot of zondas. For what other reason can a car from a brand with no racing pedigree command such a price tag. It cant be only because of the mercedes v12. Makes no sense.
I wonder if they fixed many of the issues with the zonda with the 760 upgrades? Maybe the 760 and cinque are noticeably better cars? That would explain why horatios car sounds different because he would have all the best bits done to his. Despite all the misgivings its still my poster car and one that i would love to own but almost certainly never will
F50 is a legendary car! F1 derived V12 is always great. Bad allignment and old tires could be the cause of that bad driving feel and experience of Pagani Zonda S 7,3 which should be compared to Carrera GT and had better driving feel than Enzo back then.
“Don’t fuck with Janet Cammisa”, dude we had similar moms. I’m pretty sure I didn’t like my mother until I was drinking age, for some reason we got along after that!
I would like to know what you guys think a ferrari 348 as the formula is the same as the 288 GTO. Same wheelbase, same longitudinally mounted engine. Obviously quite a bit heavier but can be solved with a diet of carbon 😂. I've heard them pooh on the 348 but I would like to hear some more in-depth comparison. Slapping 2 turbos and weight savings should give a similar feel to the 288??
Being that Pagani is far more coach builder like than manufacturer, I wonder if this example is indicative of all Zonda’s or just how that particular buyer had theirs tuned and maintained. That 9 mil is thanks to any Pagani being bespoke on bespoke on bespoke, so its always a question of is their consistency. Compare that to Ferrari where they make sure even the buyers are a good look on the brand, let alone every car produced.
So...Jason Cammisa has (clearly) given up on even trying not to curse during an episode? It doesn't bother me either way though it was something he seemed to care passionately about just an episode or three ago.
I wonder if there's an opportunity for a newly manufactured retro style hot-hatch with its sole purpose of providing fun and comfortable weekend driving fun in either a gated 5 or 6-speed manual and an optional really responsive paddle shifters, good muffler sound, basic interior necessities, roomy and comfortable driver seat for big and tall drivers, optional sun-roof or convertible, and maybe even sell it in 2 basic colours ... let the enthusiast dream it up if they want to ... base price of $10k USD, something priced crazy low yet super reliable, easy to maintain, super fun, base bluetooth, don't even provide a screen lol ... I wonder if there's an opportunity for something super niche that could be the mainstream enthusiasts second or third vehicle for low speed fun driving, or for the car-less enthusiast who lives downtown a big city and just wants a fun toy car for early morning drives, weeknights or weekends!
Fun fact - Horacio Pagani used to personally give factory tours - I know because around 2000 or 2001 I visited Pagani HQ in Modena just hoping to get a photo of a C12. I told the person at the front office I was from Japan and wanted to see a Pagani and the man couldn't speak English very well, so he was like "uno momento" and walked away to get someone (I assumed). About five minutes later, Horacio Pagani himself came out! He too didn't speak English very well, but for about 30 minutes we somehow broke through the language barrier and 30 minutes after that, he was taking me for a drive in a C12! We got a few miles out, he stopped and gestured for me to drive! He gave me instructions where to turn and I very gently and nervously drove the car back; he even gestured for me to give it a few healthy rpms. Best Italian driving experience ever. I still have a photo of Horacio and me at Pagani HQ, simply unforgettable. Mr Pagani, if you ever read this, thank you.
This is what really makes Pagani cool. Forget the cars, the founder and his passion are still there
Wow you got to drive 🤯
Yeah, I had a similar experience but I was not old enough to drive 😂 He took us for a tour of his original factory many years back. It was a great experience.
Now I am building my dream V12 supercar with the OG zonda engine 😎 since I am a few penny's short of a real zonda 😂
Compare this to Lamborghini where a pre-booked tour ca 2009 got cancelled when we showed up for unexplained reasons
I would be overrun with endorphins for a week after that, WOW. I was (all three of us were) extatic after seeing a test Utopia making rounds around the factory. Getting a tour by Horacio Pagani himself AND A DRIVE in my (still) favorite hypercar is just incomprehensible.
Che fortuna!
Can confirm Derek reads all his DMs. He once came to Portugal and responded to my message wishing him a good stay. (I was so happy, thank you 🥺❤️)
he even replied to me!
Derek is a great dude for sure.
He replied to me with tons of good info when I was asking about how to import a W123 from Germany to the US. Eventually I used the shipper that he recommended.
He replies even with emojis.
He is a great guy
Jason explaining how he wants his v12 to sound was simply peak
Word. Poetic and seemingly spontaneous.
Driving the F50 and Zonda... Man you guys are really doing it rough these days....thanks for taking it for the team and driving them so we don't have to realise how empty our lives are... 😭
Bet it was so hard to leave all those EVs behind to go drive some outdated V12's 😂
Can confirm, Derek reads most of his DMs. He is very generous with his time.
The inserts of the cars while Jason screams the sounds had me laughing terribly, keep it up!
Just insured my x308 XJ8 through Hagerty and when the rep asked why i chose them I told them it was because of the content they are creating, specifically you two. Keep it up!
Hagerty must launch in the UK !
Thanks @flacjacket - and @tonyclewes8 I believe we do offer insurance in the UK!
This is perhaps the best podcast episode I've ever heard. I'd have gladly paid for the privilege.
It just occured to me that I didn't once think "it's a shame they're not doing these reviews from within the actual cars, like all other reviews". Why, because the depth of analysis is soooo much better than anything out there. We can see and hear the car in hundreds of other videos, but this depth of analysis is unique ! Thanks guys ❤❤
Jason, the F50 V12 voice that you're referring to belongs to a singer named Lzzy Hale. Her band is Halestorm. Distorted belts are her thing. Enjoy.
Zonda has the climate control from a Rover 45, but most likey you are familiar with it from the other car that has it, the Murcielago
just found about this channel, and after 15 mins i think to myself how tha fuc isnt this channel with milion subscibers? Jason is a natural talker and legit funny, hes great in a podcast host, yeah lets get this channel to grow boyz
Wait until you find his other content.
Agreed great podcast.
"Please mute that." "I'm sorry Dave...I can't do that..."
Old 911 brakes are absolutely perfect for heal and toe because you can just put so much pressure into the brake pedal that the small amount of release or modulation you inherently make whilst healing across to the accelerator makes no difference.. this is exactly how I want a brake pedal.. More manufacturers need to get behind this.. nobody needs super assisted, long travel mushy brakes.
We know of shared parts in low volume supercars and hypercars from yesteryears, but the Zonda sharing the Lancia Ypsilon's guage cluster is off the charts, because look at how stylised it is to beyond recognition.
To be fair, Lancia makes some pretty nice looking gauges
Zondas were once 200k-300k people seem to forget that. Full carbon, built from 0 in a decent shed with a bunch of people and a limited budget. Of course there are parts from other cars. Ferrari did that for decades and they were gigantic at the time compared with Pagani at any point of Zonda.
Loving the informational inserts (and how long they're held) as much as the hilarious ones.
The F-50 was the only other supercar I ever fell in love with as a kid. The first was the Dodge Viper, the car that brought me into cars. It wouldn't be until I was in my 30's that I'd meet another supercar I felt incomplete not having.
Between this and Chris Harris and Friends its very hard to pick the best podcast. I think they both share the number one spot covering everything motoring. I would whole heartly enjoy a crossover episode between the lot of them.
Chris harris all day, if he could just do it consistently.
No love for Spikes car radio, or The Smoking tire?
@@gickneorgeBig fan of the smoking tire, I find Spike's to be bordering on unlistenable.
Camissa/pobst over Harris all day long. Nothing against Harris, he is just less entertaining to listen to.
@@ProWhiteAntiJew I find Harris interesting but I don't find his podcast interesting, the disconnect caused by it being remote just makes it not work for me.
I appreciated the edit Jake, and I do like learning about the childhood of Derek and Jason, helps me understand how they tick.
Pagani Zonda F Roadster has been a dream car ever since I saw the Top Gear episode. Imagine if Paganis were still under 500k
Heavy emphasis on dream.
Edit: glad the Zonda was a let down, now I don’t have to feel down about never being able to own one 😅
I saw 3 Huayra's drive by together a month ago... it was insane.
It's my dream car too 😍 that's why I am building my dream V12 supercar with the OG zonda engine 😎
I belive the car they drove has a heavily suppressed exhaust system 🤔
Jason’s description of the Zonda’s interior is how I felt when I first saw the interior of Koenigsegg.
I would love seeing/hearing Harry Metcalfe as a guest. He used to own a Zonda, current Testarossa/Countac owner and he has different opinions/experiences to you. Which is always a good thing.
I wonder if they drove a car that needed more exercise and driving miles to loosen up .
Gotta travel to the UK for that
I was one of those kids who dismissed the F50 as an "ugly car" and "way worse than the F40", but the more I hear about it, the more I think it's a masterpiece.
Just the collection of specs, that is the F50, could make for an all-time great supercar. The fact that its a Ferrari is just a cherry on top. And unlike the Zonda, which is very similar, spec-wise, it is a well executed package, more than the sum of its parts.
@@titaniummechanism3214 Except, let's be real, for the looks. Tbf, it looks damn good from the rear. Front end, however, is.....unfortunate.
It is, therefore, a damn good thing that the rest of the car is so good as to render the looks irrelevant.
I appreciate that you're having this open conversation. A lot of the time the creator(s) of something will take criticism personally, which is natural after spending SO MUCH time on something. But like when we would do our tests/exams and get them back with a bunch of red ink on them, talking about things like this I think is useful to improve the breed.
Some things are down to opinion, others are often down to legislation etc. so criticism should always be constructive, and improvements will undoubtedly benefit future cars and buyers.
The persons who might get offended by criticism and say "how dare you sit there and say it's not amazing, you don't even have enough money to buy the car" are mostly unwilling to admit to some flaws or consider the margin for improvement. An engineer could spend thousands of hours and millions to build something like an Eiffel Tower but it might not be a great creation due to some major or minor flaws. But it's also important to be self-confident about something. Just because somebody criticizes it, does not mean it's bad. The criticism might give some ideas to quietly improve something (without even admitting it!).
Keep up the good work :-)
36:30 I see Derek wasn't ready for where that was going either hahaha
That 500 abarth insert when Jason did that yelling noise did me in. 🤣
I knew it was coming, thanks to this comment, but I still laughed hard as hell. 😂😂
So I remember the F50 when it came out. I think part of the reasoning for the price difference is that the F50 was considered to be a "flop" when it came out. I did not have better performance than its predecessor, I remember magazines saying it was "softer" than the F40 as well and its design was polarizing. It unfortunately also came out after the F1 which could also have hurt its valuation up until recently.
It seems like everyone who has driven this specific car with it's silenced exhaust has had a poor experience.
The Zonda engine normally dominates 100%
you guys need to drive a zonda thats not been tampered with 👍
I am using the mercedes m120 V12 for my project 😎
Don't forget the Zonda is an old car now guys. It was groundbreaking when it came out.
As you guys mentioned, the F50 is very much the drivers vehicle. It'll do everything you ask it too.
Major reason why the Pagni is more than the F50, is because of its rarity. Very few Zonda's compared to F50. We're talking about very small fractions now. Not to mention the Pagni is alot more bespoke. Bespoke for all the "wrong" reasons, but still bespoke. 🙂
Personally, between the 2 I would always take the F50. It's been my favorite Ferrari (and the only one I would ever want to own if I ever won the lottery) since it's debut. Alot of people put it down and was disappointed by it. I responded oppositely. Unfortuantely as more time goes by, the price of this beauty keeps going up and up.. Forza Ferrari!! 🙂
From what I understand the US and EU exhausts in the Zonda sound really different.
I attended an event at Lagu na Seca 4-5 years ago where an F50 was on track with a McLaren F1 and Mercedes CLK GTR. The F50’s engine sounded so much better than the other cars it wasn’t close. I’m not sure if the car was straight piped but it became my ultimate car after the day.
I also remember when the F50 was half the price of an F40.
The F50 has always had a soft spot in my heart.
Sorta surprised DTS didn't mention the Spyker as a counter-point to the $9m Pagani. Spykers are criminally undervalued.
@jason, vacuum brake boosters are removed from rally cars because you run out of boost assist the second time you touch the brake pedal and the pedal becomes rock hard. The master cylinders are then sized appropriately so you get a reasonable pedal effort each time you need it. It has nothing to do with your left foot not being trained to brake.
Keep up the good work!
why do you run out of boost assist?
The Zonda "nero" is one of the older versions... It was restomod ed to look like a Zonda tricolore, I don't know about the chassis but I know it had to complain noise regulations of California... You did NOT experienced a Zonda, the Zonda was not even sold in the USA...
Yeah I believe the exhaust was heavily suppressed on the car they drove 🤔
This. That car is not representative of the Zonda.
I'd love to watch a comparison of Zonda to SL73 AMG. (Perhaps there is an episode idea: wolves in wolves clothing? e.g. 550i. Tenet quote: "We need a fast car that doesn't look fast.")
If you're going down to Florida to drive an F40, just do it in December, so you can go to Wrenchwerx.
Does anyone remember which Episode Jason had his rant on about the ID4? Where the executives got fired, the crash structure changes, etc, etc. I for the life of me can't find it
I remember that one you're not crazy
If you find let us know 😂 I’d love to know as well
I wish I could remember (it's Jason.) I'll ask Derek.
@@TheCarmudgeonShow Oh sweet as, thanks a bunch. It's a fascinating story and it's the only place that I know of where a lot of those pieces are all in one place. I'd even be open for a pt.2!
40:54 I caught that Magic Schoolbus reference Jake, well done.
With that amazing 100s of engine note description at 35:56, PLEASE do an episode describing engine notes you like and dislike 😂
Pleeeeeaaase
I vote for a best engine sound video. Where they bring 3 clips of each, 4cyl, 6cly etc. To argue. Then Derek brings a motorbike twin and wins it all. 😂
Agreed
They sit in a way... that looks like... they are about to hold hands....
Journalists were off the opinion that the F40 was faster then Ferrari said, Ferrari underrated the horsepower by some margin. Only a few years later the F50 came out and they didn't see the value because the speed was similar and by the 90's they wanted some luxury's in such an expensive car. Ferrari said the topspeed of the F50 was 1km/h higher then the F40, which was probably not true. As a 90's kid if prefer the F50 because it was in Need for Speed II, still have a 1:18 scale model in my living room. :)
Ohhhh this is a hearbreaking episode. Killing my hero cars... But at least you guys are honest.
it's not a fair review - at the very least the review needs qualifiers on the current state of this Zonda. Trust me - it should still be one of your hero cars
@@HypercarEnthusiast-n9o It's starting to become a trend with one of the Carmudgeons, tbh. Jason's usually alright but he's also the type of person to repeatedly mount targeted assaults on the _Honda S2000,_ which I STILL don't understand.
Just started listening to the show, love it. I was listening to an episode about buying a Porsche and driving it across the border through customs, what did you do about a license plate???
THE best pod.
there's like so many special editions zondas, including the one you drive, so I feel like it depends in terms of how they sound and feel.
Maybe drive a zonda F or cinque sometime, I don't hear bad things about them
Yeah make an episode on light steering cars, and include the Escort Mk1 into it!
After hearing the Evora R under load for the first time a couple weeks ago, Camry V6 is in my top 3, probs even no. 1. No joke.
enthusiast community is not gonna like these zonda comments 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
After listening to the entire discussion, I'm glad the F50 survives as a hero car from my childhood. I'm also very curious if the Zonda is very setup-dependent. The clip you played did sound very muted, and the comments about Horacio's spec of Hyuara and Zonda make me think that there is an exciting car in the Zonda, but not in the spec / setup that you had avaiable.
I'm also STUNNED by the dimensions of the Zonda! It's the same length as a Supra?! That really *is* tiny!!
Absolutely loved the childhood stories, sprinkler some more of those in. Also as a father of twins, I also leashed them and got judged for it.
a suggestion for a topic: story of Steven McQueen filming for Ford Puma gen 1 and its Yamaha Collab to build one of the coolest NA 4 cylinders in a car. also handles like a dream with effortless correction on power slides in wet. yes you heard me right, it power slides with all 4 wheels, Tiff Needell and Org Top gear gave it very high prase. cheers
The zonda deseign is absolutly amazing, but stock its just ok.
It needs to be more agressivly tuned but not pushed too far.
It really shines on the 880 hp range.
1200 hp is range is execessive and the car is too light for this, downforce works, but it has diminishing return at that much power / weight ratio.
The f50 is better than thr f40 and ive been saying it for NEARLY....3 decades. You either die a a hero ir live long enough to become the villain... Ir something like that
Let me guess, you own both?
The F50 sounds more like the type of supercar, I'd be in to. Chris Harris did a wonderful video, where he drove the F40 and F50 back to back on track and he prefers the F40. That video is well worth a watch btw!
@@titaniummechanism3214 even though Chris is wrong.... I'll give it a watch. Lol. Thx
Watching this video while being Italian was… interesting 🤣 🤟
The 288 GTO is my favorite, it´s a bit more understated, but is soo sexy.
Zonda climate controls also in a Murcielago and originally from the Rover 25/45...!
Zonda and murcie sv are the best sounding v12s to me. I love a wail
Agreed 100% 😍
I love them V12s. I am using the mercedes V12 for my project 😎
Your description of the disappointments you had in the Zonda so many parallels with my experience with an MGF TF. It’s quite funny. Are mid engine cars harder to “get right”?
My 308 GT4 does not have particularly heavy shifting......maybe a little higher than my MR2 turbo. But not high at all, but it has ~60,000 miles on it, maybe it gets easier over time. Also shifts into 2nd fine when cold.
Are you doing an Icons episode on the ID.Bu…New Beetle? Awesome!
The analogies today were hilarious
4 year old Derek is the best
WE NEED THE HAM TYPHOON!!!!
I think you two drove a bad version of the car. I was at Sebring race way for a track day and there was a Zonda there. you could hear it going down the front and back straight and it sounded amazing. was that Zonda set up for California emissions? if so that could be why it didn't sound good.
Damn, I say!
Wow! That's a real clap!
The f50 is RAW! The Zonda for showing off at the private club to the other girlfriends lol
In an era of collectibility and not in drivability, I'm actually not surprised anything Horatio puts out would command and exorbitant amount of money.
I think of his vehicles as art exhibits that happen to have an engine
U SHOULD DO A LIVE SHOW WITH A STUDIO AUDIENCE 😃
What does it say about me that I can hear you guys speak for days about GTIs, and w201s and diesel Mercedes, but I had to listen to this twice since I couldn't pay any attention the first time?
Actually want to know what you all think
We think it means you're cool.
@@TheCarmudgeonShow 😍
I just hope that these guys remember that a Zonda and everything about it would be the fastest, most amazingly beautiful and artful, powerful, most aggressive sounding car that anybody watching this would ever sit in. It would be the best driving best handling car we could ever imagine. Unless we drove supercars for a living. Then a $9m Zonda is just "meh".
18:50 this is my 2nd time hearing about how a pagani zonda drives really dissappointing personally. I was shocked initially when I heard it.
Whatever happened to Discount Adam Sandler? I miss him.....
Jason, Derek, please review the Renault Range of RS Hatchbacks. Especially the 300 trophy please 😊
I just came back from the tour of the Pagani Factory in italy, mixed emotions.. I also went on a tour of the lamborghini, Ducati and Maserati factories, and although, I understand that those are big factories and Pagani is a small operation, I cannot justify the price of the Pagani being 10 times over the price of the Lamborghini, unless your bank account ends in multiple multiple zeros.. What I saw at Pagani was a bunch of Middle aged women hand carving carbon fiber and bunch of young kids gluing interior pieces together, also there is no parking around Pagani Factory and if you do find a parking spot there are signs everywhere not to leave any valuables in your car, insane
F50 has a street version of their actual F1 motor being used at the time.. not used in any other Ferrari. It's not gonna pull any punches
I simply do not believe that the zonda sounds like a honda inside. Zero chance that's true 😂
Carrera GT sounds like a dump truck inside as well.
Well well Sam from STG held the same sentiments about the zonda. Lewis Hamilton said it was the worst handling car he owned. They values are probably artificially inflated TBH...the factory owns alot of zondas. For what other reason can a car from a brand with no racing pedigree command such a price tag. It cant be only because of the mercedes v12. Makes no sense.
Hahahahahahha Jason being a twin, and also a little shit at that, is completely on brand hahahahaha😊
I wonder if they fixed many of the issues with the zonda with the 760 upgrades? Maybe the 760 and cinque are noticeably better cars? That would explain why horatios car sounds different because he would have all the best bits done to his. Despite all the misgivings its still my poster car and one that i would love to own but almost certainly never will
F50 is a legendary car! F1 derived V12 is always great. Bad allignment and old tires could be the cause of that bad driving feel and experience of Pagani Zonda S 7,3 which should be compared to Carrera GT and had better driving feel than Enzo back then.
I belive this specific zonda had a heavily silenced exhaust.
Jason needs to hear a Ducati 998 with Termis on the boil. Some sounds sear a brand in your heart.
We all need more F40 time!
*Picks up a notepad and pen: Interesting...
“Don’t fuck with Janet Cammisa”, dude we had similar moms. I’m pretty sure I didn’t like my mother until I was drinking age, for some reason we got along after that!
I would like to know what you guys think a ferrari 348 as the formula is the same as the 288 GTO. Same wheelbase, same longitudinally mounted engine. Obviously quite a bit heavier but can be solved with a diet of carbon 😂. I've heard them pooh on the 348 but I would like to hear some more in-depth comparison. Slapping 2 turbos and weight savings should give a similar feel to the 288??
Being that Pagani is far more coach builder like than manufacturer, I wonder if this example is indicative of all Zonda’s or just how that particular buyer had theirs tuned and maintained. That 9 mil is thanks to any Pagani being bespoke on bespoke on bespoke, so its always a question of is their consistency. Compare that to Ferrari where they make sure even the buyers are a good look on the brand, let alone every car produced.
LOL! Proud of the clap! 😃
What held the F50 back was looks, not the top speed. F40 is just spectacular looking and so iconic, tough act to follow
Eh, I had that BMW steering wheel before!. In my E34 540i. German friend got it for me from a flea market in germany....
"Granny shifting, not double-clutching like you should." - not driving the Lampredi Ferrari!
The F50 is Ferrari's failed attempt on making a F1 road car. The Zonda is... well, look at its beauty.
Off topic subject but...Is there someone i can talk to about the fact that the E60 M5 V10 sound heavenly and is selling for about $15k?
The looks is what let down the F50.
So...Jason Cammisa has (clearly) given up on even trying not to curse during an episode?
It doesn't bother me either way though it was something he seemed to care passionately about just an episode or three ago.
Mama Mia! Jason, you’re going to wake up with a severed horse’s head in your bed, if you keep this up. 😂
The F50 is Luca di Montezemolo showing that he can make a Ferrari better than Enzo Ferrari, and he succeeded. (In other words: F50 > F40)
MONDAAAAAAAYYYYYY
I wonder if there's an opportunity for a newly manufactured retro style hot-hatch with its sole purpose of providing fun and comfortable weekend driving fun in either a gated 5 or 6-speed manual and an optional really responsive paddle shifters, good muffler sound, basic interior necessities, roomy and comfortable driver seat for big and tall drivers, optional sun-roof or convertible, and maybe even sell it in 2 basic colours ... let the enthusiast dream it up if they want to ... base price of $10k USD, something priced crazy low yet super reliable, easy to maintain, super fun, base bluetooth, don't even provide a screen lol ... I wonder if there's an opportunity for something super niche that could be the mainstream enthusiasts second or third vehicle for low speed fun driving, or for the car-less enthusiast who lives downtown a big city and just wants a fun toy car for early morning drives, weeknights or weekends!
7:35 Tarık Akan 🇹🇷
jasons mom is almost exactly like my grandmother. it was just understood that you didnt cross her or bad things would happen.
Is Carmudgeon leaving Hagerty?!