Book departure and Lan’s plot is really making this hard for me. Rafe said they’d get closer to the books along season 3 so I pray that happens. I’m just bummed because TGH was one of my favorite books in the series and it feels half assed
I'm having a hard time with it. It's such a departure that I have to stop and consider if I like the changes or not. I'm only 4 episodes in the new season, and it feels like it's dragging. I feel like Mat, Perrin, and Rand are barely in it. I just don't see how these characters are going to turn into the Mat, Perrin, and Rand that I love.
They won't... not in this show... that's been pretty clear for a while. I feel it's a shame, because the books were way more balanced regarding...all the gender stuff. Ok, the wonder gurls were unbearable, but let's be honest, so were the boys for a long part of the story. Then Rand came to an orchard... (And you just can't approach the power and its intricacies without evocating the male, female part, their consequences, and their differences with the One Power...the show is literally screwing that part up- and it's maybe the most important one...)
@@ChristmasLore... You summed up my feelings exactly. I'm sorry to say that I just can't watch it at all. 😢 And then killing Uno off was the last straw!
The pacing is just wayyy too slow for the amount of story they need to cram in. It like gives me creeping anxiety when halfway through an episode nothing has even happened haha
I absolutely agree this show is doing a disservice to the core of the story. Great actors for each character but the plot lines are terrible. I actually be asking myself did they even read any of the books in it's entirety. It looks like they open the first few books of WOT went over a few chapters mixed them together and said this is it. Smh
A friend asked me how the season was going since I've talked about it randomly during the summer. I told him that it's been decent. Quality has been much improved. But it's not following the books as much as I would like.
Quality has improved (they literally had no choice...), but I disagree with Naeblis: it's not good TV. It's okeyish TV, at best. It's sad somehow, because some of the casting has been outstanding (thinking mostly about the Lan, Liandrin, Rand actors, and Min too, oh, and Alvaro...- I'm not good with names)
Rand, Mat and Perrin were secondary characters in season one and they are secondary in the first half of this season. They aren’t going to magically get more focus in the second half. Egwene damane arc and rescue will certainly be the primary plot of the second half given how much Rafe loves the girls.
Its called woke hoolywood my friend. Even if the book series has lots and lots of strong and interesting female chatacters its just not enough for wokeism. They need to minimilize the importance of every male as much as possible. The story and making a faithful adaption is secondary to this .
@@LordBrizz It is an change in the adaptation that some would like and some would dislike. My comment was more to address Nae’blis’s hope that the boys story will pick up in the second half.
Deviation from the original source content is too be expected. With that being said, you can clearly see how little the writers have dove into the whole WoT universe. Some changes they have made already… have huge ramifications on the story in general. It’s sucks forcing myself to sit through each episode. Hoping it gets better. Hoping.
I just realized the next half will be The Dragon Reborn. The Great Hunt ended with the reveal of Selene being Lanfear, just like in episode 4. VERY annoyed. The writing is better, but the direction infuriates me. Example of having both: One Piece live action. You CAN adapt faithfully, add and combine elements, and still have enough decent writing to make people want to watch the show. There is a reason One Piece live action was the number one streamed show for 2 weeks now, something people thought was unadaptable.
The show loses the soul of the characters from the book completely. I mean Lan crying during that warder funeral in season 1 really did me in. Al Lan Mandragoran Lord of the Seven towers in the book says “In war, you say a prayer for your dead and ride on, because there is always another fight over the next horizon”….does the show capture that essence of Lan? I think not. One example of many.
The biggest, and really only problem I have with how the series is going is the casting of Thom. Sure; he was great, for the 10 minutes he's been on screen. Far, far better in my view to have gone with the second choice and have him get the full time his character needs to actually meet and interact with the rest of the cast than to get 2 quick cameos in the first 2 seasons. I hear the arguments that his interactions in the first 3 books 'aren't that important'; but that's nonsense. Like every character in every story their early actions and interactions are the foundations of their later actions and interactions.
The problem with Thom was not the casting, it was that they made him into a completely different character than he is in the books. Frankly, it wouldn't hurt my feelings if they just cut him entirely from the rest of the series because he isn't the book character in any way.
@@Darm0k One of the best things I've found about the Wheel of Time is how many different character interpretations there are. The Thom we got is the one who bargained away his freedom with Moiraine for a list of names of people to brutally murder... and then brutally murdered those people offscreen because it wasn't worth it for us get that on-screen. The Thom who brought down a kingdom because his girlfriend died over politics. The Thom who sat on a rock cleaning his knife with a pile of bodies hidden in the bushes. Do you remember that Thom? I do. And we saw him singing a song about Lews Therin Telamon that I would have expected that Thom to sing. Perhaps in High Chant, sure, but still our Thom. The cartoon veneer for Thom works in some locations, and we'll probably get to see some of that... not as cartoony as he was in the early books because the early books were simply so cartoony as to be unrealistic (just ask Nynaeve running around beating the crap out of everyone anime style)
@@Novagenesis The Thom you're describing voluntarily hid behind the "cartoon" veneer. It's not the same character to me. I know there are too many characters and not enough screen time, but the show has given us lots of time with characters that weren't in the books or were not very important in the books.
Its an improvement on S1, i dont think anyone can deny that, but i dont think its a good show still. Season 1 was like a 3/10, this season is perhaps a 5-6/10 this far imo. It's basically the Nynaeve show right now and im wondering why Perrin and Mat is even in this. They are doing fuck all lol and are not really similar to their book characters either imo. Lan is just a travesty at this point and as you rightly pointed out his storyline is committing the worst sin possible: being boring! Rand is alright i guess and Egwene i'm just waiting for her to actually get some screen time. Bro i love Nynaeve, she's probably my favorite character in the books, but i dont think its good that the show is taking so much time from all the other characters and pouring it into her. It's especially obvious for Egwene since they are kinda similar characters in the show, it just feels like Rafe took half of Egwenes screen time and gave it to Nynaeve.
To be fair i think the actress playing Nynaeve is smashing it. For me, if they got rid of the sub plot with alannas warders and replaced it with time spent with perrin and mat we would be there.
Probably to correct for Season 1, where Egwene could suddenly heal. A weave she of INFAMOUSLY bad at in the books, but apparently she can bring people back from the dead on the show :P
Looking at the stats (/wot/ on Reddit has them) Perrin has moved up into second place after Nynaeve in terms of screen time, just not words: he's down in 12th. Which makes sense for who he is, a super talkative Perrin would be WEIRD. After screen time and word count there is a third chart for talkativeness (words per minute) and Perrin is right at the bottom!
The only way to cover all the awesomeness that is WoT, would be to have 30 seasons. I do enjoy it for what it is and am trying not to hate it for what it isn't.
I few like that’s the most realistic way to look at this. No way they can mail everything and shows are never as good as books. But I’m with you, enjoying this for what it is and turning the other cheek when they make me mad…lol
Agreed. I was never one who wanted to see an adaptation. LotR was a pretty great adaptation, but the trilogy is about as big as one book in WoT, so it's a near impossible task to do a decent adaptation. In season 1 I was able to separate the book and the show and get some enjoyment out of it. Can't seem to do that in season 2. If I had never read the books I would enjoy the show but as it is I can't watch anymore. I only made it through episode 2 so maybe I'll give it a chance sometime, but as of now I'm just too annoyed with the complete lack of respect they show the books.
I honestly wish they would have done the War of Power and the breaking instead. I just think that would be a really fun plot to follow and it would be easier to make it more GoT, which I think if we're being honest was what Amazon wanted.
They made Lanfear as terrifying as she is supposed to be in like 30 seconds this season. Book readers would know what she did to a fat caravan driver at one point and this last episode showed THAT version of her.
I wouldn't want to be a fat caravan driver living in the foregate in Cairhein next episode... she's going to do something unhinged next episode. My guess: she starts a fire to burn a big chunk of the foregate, realizes that she's not winning Rand over that way and then makes peace with him based on her saying she's going to win him over eventually and then peaces out for now.
They turned her into a monster. That actually makes her less terrifying. Monsters do monster things after all. What should make Lanfear so scary is that she is seemingly a human being perfected and yet she does the most monstrous of things. She's broken on the inside and that makes her interesting and yes, terrifying.
I would love to see a scene of her being spurned by her lover from 3,000 years ago, maybe after her discoveries that brought chaos to the world? Most non-book readers I heard thought that her former lover was Ishamael/Dark One. I think a cold open revelation of why she's so obsessed with Rand will be fantastic, rather than casually dropping that information in a conversation.
I love the show and am enjoying the newness of it all as I’m not a book reader but I agree that the lack of promotion is hurting things and I really wish they had some sort of brief narration or written explanations of what’s happening Sonia non book readers had something to go from each episode
An improvement from season 1? Yes. A vast improvement? Not so much, in my opinion. After 4 episodes, I'd give this season a 6 out of 10, compared to a 4 out of 10 for season 1. They had a golden opportunity to learn from the mistakes of season 1 and deliver a nice, tight story following the hunt for the horn in season 2. It's a narrative from the source material that seems tailor-made for a good season of television, but that opportunity has not been seized, IMO. PROS: as you pointed out, production value is improved from season 1. The White Tower characters and story are interesting (especially with the addition of Elayne), if at times slow-paced. Introduction of the Seanchan was done pretty well in terms of visuals and tone, also. The acting remains solid overall and really good at times - I think the casting + acting is saving the series. CONS: the show is giving the three main characters (Rand, Matt, Perrin) f*&$ all to do. I'll throw Lan into that same plot abyss. Their role in the events of the story should be well balanced with that of Nynaeve, Eqwene, Moiraine, etc., and this show does not understand that. Basic things like character motivation, giving them interesting traits and choices to make, showing how they react to adversity, are all absent from season 2 thus far. (side note: moping can be an interesting way for a character to react, but when all of your main characters do it, it gets boring really fast). It did not have to be this way. Start season 2 by getting your main characters together, show why they are motivated to chase the horn OR go to the White Tower. Then send them on their way, together on one of those two journeys, by the end of episode 1. The follow up episodes then become explorations of what they are doing on each of those journeys, and the obstacles they overcome along the way. Plenty of opportunity to develop the characters, but it's done with the plot actually moving forward. Instead, we've been essentially stuck in place with our characters in several different locations, with little direction or motivation for them. I want this to be a great show, and instead it's just so-so.
I feel you are still being very generous to the show. Frankly, I don't care so much that the series is changing things, it's that the changes the show keeps making are ruining the characters left and right carelessly. Adapting always comes with change, it's just not good change. If it weren't for the acting, there would be nothing of value at all in the show. Also will note that so far Season 2 is better in production value but worse in almost every other way. I find the writing and changes to be of an even lower quality than season 1, and the neutering of Moiraine is just... Well, I don't like it. It's a real struggle watching this show as a huge fan of the books and I can really respect Robert Jordan's hesitancy to license this world out when he was alive. No wonder Brandon Sanderson refuses to give up any creative control in licensing.
Sometimes I feel that Judkins is a worse screenwriter than the average reader of the books. And I usually do not fall in this trivial opinion. But I feel he's confused and does not know where to go (because he is not fit for his role).
Totally agree about changes to the source material. I'm not opposed to the changes just because they are different from the books. I'm opposed to them when they make no sense and cheapen the characters. You can (and should) make changes when doing an adaptation. But what you put on screen still has to be good. @@LordBrizz
So far I have had trouble getting immersed in the story. That is probably due to the divergence from the books. It is not bad perse. I agree with your assessment of the Lan plotline so far, although it feels like it is being set up to become a lot bigger.
I wouldn't put it this way, but it does bring up whether we're going to get a character arc in this book where Lan BECOMES the best swordsman of all time by the end, rather that basically being that person already in the books. Lan doesn't really change much in the books other than falling in love behind the scenes. It would be cool to see a really good swordsman become the best. Hoping so!
I don't want to go back and rewatch it, so that tells me how good it is. I'm so dissapointed in their choices. The actors are doing very well, but the story is ridiculous.
Better than last season, but that's a really low bar. IMO, this season sits at a 5/10 so far. I really want it to be good, and am holding out some hope, but that hope's starting to fade.
The White Tower stuff has all been awesome so far, but almost every other main character's plot has seemed very lackluster or just underrepresented. It feels like the showrunner and writers are playing favorites. I wish Mat could have been worked into the hunt for the Horn of Valere in some way, because as of right now I don't see how he'll end up where he needs to be by the end of the season.
Ummmmmmm what do i think, ok I think up until episode 4 I was ok saying it is a better tv show, the girls (Mo excepted) are actually great and the Liandrin thing is interesting - but at the expense of the lads, and the way we are characterizing said lads is bordering on malicious intent, despite the actors best efforts (which is greatly appreciated mind you). After Ep 4 id say im back to this is a mal-adaptation and it's gross what theyve done to much loved characters, and its not just the men - this Min thing is just unreal. And no mater where we are, we have to have our boys being led around by the nose by a girl. They have Zero Agency. It is what it is - and you can be sure once Perrin and Avi meet up he'll be in the same spot as the others. Lan, is just heartbreaking with the choices they have made. It's honestly hard to believe so I am doing my best to pretend that nonsense is not real. Bah - i dont know why every negative change and mis-step is confined to the lads, they seem to be able to get the wonder girls right. People will speculate but I dont really care for the reason. It makes it really hard to digest and infuriating when you see such a bastardisation of characters you've loved for decades.
As long as they just use the names and move the story elements around as they see fit, I’m not interested. This is like another turning of the wheel with different events but the exact same people. Your synopses are more then enough for me
No, it's a terrible show. Especially as a WoT rip-off. Rand isn't the main character and he comes off almost like a villain. Moiraine comes off as an arrogant moron, Lan is a simp, Mat and Min are both ruined, Perrin is still a wife-killer, and even Nynaeve is nowhere near her source material. The story is not internally consistent and I have no hope in the writers making it better - it's the most expensive fan-fic in history and I will be happy when it's cancelled (either already now or after season 3). The 10.000ish people watching will be sad but millions of book fans can have hope for an actually adaption again.
Myself, I am glad they are doing the Wheel of Time now. I've just got Amazon Prime now to watch Season 1 & 2. The first season was ok overall. Season 2 is better. I am disappointed in the departure from the book overall. However, it is following some. The way they are doing the Forsaken is interesting and
My question is how the are they going to get through books 2 and 3 worth of material (as they said this season covers both of those books) when we are half way through the season and the plot has not really moved along at all. Basically only character development has occured so far which is fine but i am just worried that the last 4 episodes are going to basically happen at lightspeed. We haven't really seen the Seanchan or the Aiel yet and we know both will be introduced this season. I assume they will want to give each culture a good episode worth of material to give some proper background and explanation for their motives etc. Basically that leaves 1 episode each for the battle at Falme and then another episode for Rand retrieving Callandor. Also basically none of the characters are in the right locations for those plots to unfold so they are going to have to do some serious time jumps in order to get things into place. Just seems to me like they are really setting themselves up for a VERY unevenly paced season.
At very end of one of previews it looks like Mat is running toward group of Seanchan leading heroes so I think he still blows horn. now Nyn slipping in and killing Turak with a sword would not shock me at this point.
I am enjoying the show for what it is. That is with lots of criticism. They are just wasting soooooo much time! With this much source material and being visual media, Show Not Tell. There is too much freakin dialogue! Film has certain advantages over books where a picture is worth a thousand words! USE IT! At this rate, half of the main cast will not make it to season 5. But that's a production issue. More employee turnover than a fast food restaurant! Just Pick up the damn pace in story and production! There is no time to stroke the writers' and showrunner's egos, which is what they are doing with all the BS warder subplot! S1 E5 was the biggest waste of resources in history.
I also would add that Logain has been very very good. I really like his character and think he is being developed to perfectly match the spirit of what he was in the books
I agree with you, I like a lot of the actors choices for most characters and that's why I'm even more frustrated that they have deviated so much from the story. I find it hard to reconcile characters that remind of the book but then are placed in scenes that again deviate so much
@@madmartigan8119so what would you do with an amazing actor? Pay him a huge retainer to get led around the white tower on a leash until season 4? I mean some characters disappear for a long time. In a long run Logain becomes amazing. He is an awesome underused character for the first half of the book series. I love they are giving him more time and that actor is great.
I agree but I think I understand why. In the books everything develops slowly, including the reader's understanding of the dark forces working in the background against the main cast. The show doesn't have the time to do this effectively. They have to give a face to that group, and Liandrin is a great choice. Then they have to make her a compelling, well rounded character, so that she's not just a giant, walking trope. I think the Liandrein plot line has done a great job of introducing the concept of Darkfriends (and Black Ajah), the Forsaken, and White Tower politics all at the same time. All the other plotlines will benefit from them taking the time to do that, and do it effectively, now. A less careful development of those themes would make Mat's distrust of Aes Sedai, Egwene's White Tower politics plots, etc much less effective, I think.
S2 is an improvement from S1 but still unimpressive to me. With the budget they have it should be a lot better than it is. They seem to be focusing on all the wrong characters. I dunno. They just seem to be arbitrarily butchering the story for no good reason. I'm to the point where I'm not even looking forward to new episodes. Fortunately, the new Ashoka show is just sooo damn good I've been focusing on it!
Overall I'm extremely disappointed. The show just seems choppy to me. A lot of things occurring with no explanations or setup. How does Rand meet Selene? How does Moiraine get Logain away from the Tower? Great to know Loial survived being stabbed. The intro of Elyas was awful and amateurish? Would anyone watching the show know how badass Warders really are? No because there's only like five that you ever see and all they do is swing swords in a tiny courtyard in the Tower. I could go on. I really think that no matter how bad the show is and how much it strays in unnecessary ways from the books, there are a lot of fans who are just happy to see the WOT adapted for television. And I totally get that. But for me and the expectations I had after watching how HBO adapted Game of Thrones this totally misses the mark.
EXACTLY! Anybody that talks about how hard it is to adapt a book to the screen has clearly never read and then watched Game of Thrones. They did soooooo good at bring it to the screen. WOT has been a dumpster fire from S1E1.
Agree that brooding, emo, Lan is the biggest disappointment of ep 1-4 for me. The changes from the book are fine, once you accept that this is just a different story. I actually really liked how they introduced Lanfear and I think the forsaken regen capabilities are an interesting change.
Overall I’m definitely enjoying this season but 4 episodes in and still feels like the 3 boys and Lan haven’t been given enough meaty character development. I don’t know if we need them to regroup for a while because the Tower stuff is working well when the girls can play off eachother but maybe the boys have been separated too early and for too long? I don’t know but something isn’t quite hitting the mark for me we need more of the main characters to regroup, maybe with Rand and Moiraine if Lan and Logain join them this will be a lot more interesting
I - like some others - are having a hard time with it. The central narrative has become “Lets find something for Rosamund Sedai” to do -as opposed to the the journey of the EF5. i agree Kate Fleetwood and Zoë Robins have been excellent - but the story lines re Lan, Mat, and Perrin are almost afterthoughts. I also think they have destroyed the Min character - both with bad casting and the her plot line. The new Rand and Selene arc is tolerable, but they have omitted many key developmental things in Rand’s arc. 5/10 at the midpoint.
I just can't get behind the show. I'll watch it and wish I could really enjoy it but it's even the tiny things, the tiny changes and inconsistencies that I just can't look past. 1) there's no mention of egwene bringing Nynaeve back from the dead... 2) no deal is made of Nynaeve coming back through the arches after the aes sedai gave up 3) Perrin has a fkn sword? Wtf? 4) not my Lan 5) Moirane is a bitch 4/10
My wife keeps asking me if this or that is going to happen. She knows that I have read the books 3 times and am currently on book 5 of the audio books. I keep having to tell her that they have strayed so far from the books that I have no clue what is going to happen. That being said, I am enjoying the series as something "based on the books" rather than hating it for deviating so far from the books.
My wife and I are long time book fans. We have been watching The series with our older kids (older teenagers). My wife refuses to watch any more of the season after she watched the first 3 episodes. however, my kids are enjoying it. they like the actors, and they enjoyed the visuals. where they are struggling is on the story line. the writers are not doing a good job telling the story of the will of time.Several times my kids have had questions about things going on. And I have to say, remember in this episode they talked about this. And they're, like, oh, yeah, that didn't really make sense.
I dislike the liberties taken with the story. It makes me sad that some of my favorite moments from the book will not make it into the show. I'm trying to take it as its own thing but... It just isn't true to the story I love.
Despite my previous criticism of the show based on its deviations from the story - I have to give credit to the actors and actresses who are doing a great job. I have to give the production crew a failing grade - because in every episode I watch, there is at least one character that I either can't hear or can't understand what they said. Visuals are good for the most part. I don't know how I feel about the wolf sending segments. I think it was probably the best way to do it - and I'm guessing to make it look any better would have cost significantly more money. My score overall: 6/10 (I really want to make it lower due to my dislike of the deviations - but that isn't fair to the show itself).
Great stuff, looking forward to checking out your episode reviews next, subbed… As a book fan from 20 years ago who wrote the show off, i think s2 has been way better so hopefully stays improving.
The characters are great. but disappointingly, important relationships are just weak or nonexistent at this point, Lan and Rand, Mat and Thom, barely getting to Perrin and the wolves, Moraine being super rude to Lan. Nynaeve and Egwenes seem to be the only solid pair. I hope they can all reunite and get new footing for these characters and restore more faith in the show before its too late.
That's the Rub tho about television. Where I'm 💯 with you as I adore these characters relationships I don't think we ever will truly fully get them, because we just can't. We don't have time. I'm super angry about Thom. If you ask me it's the worst 💯 worst thing about this series. I mean I can literally forgive everything else but man they are doing Thom MFN Merrilin dirtier than a brothel Jacuzzi tub. :: Rant over:: 😂 Back to my o.p we can't give all these relationships time because it isn't action packed and riveting. And yes yes I get it people who read the books don't like the Allana business but I love it and so do most non-readers. I'm hoping that season 3 with the book they are shooting for in mind is full of flashbacks, character building on a deeper level and some badass action scenes. I think we will get more of the two rivers. I'm hopeful.
@@poeticdreamer420Totally I pretty much agree with everything here! Ultimately I agree with your point about relationships in books vs adaptations; however, there are a ton of adaptations that have done it well even if they fall short of the books they are far better than these examples in WoT
@@dinocollins720 yes but how many of them got short changed with 8 episodes and only an hour each? I mean shit, supernatural got more time... So did the vampire diaries 😂
@@poeticdreamer420 lol seems like every show is doing this recently! I freakin hate it lol!!! Why is this a trend?!?!? It's so superficial and surface level you can't dive in!!!
Agree, for the most part, with your observations and ratings. I lean a little more towards the 8 level, mainly because of things we know are coming due to the trailers. I am giving them the benefit of the doubt. I hope they improve in the back half compared to season 1, if they haven't learned that lesson, I say we break out the megaphones on Rafe's lawn!
I still think they need to utterly kill the ending to motivate people to watch season 3. I’m not yet convinced myself. They already have the issue of a lackluster season 1, and it is going to be difficult enough to get a friend to sit through 8 hours and watch season 2 as it is. If they want to get people to watch season 3, the ending of season to HAS to deliver and then some.
Anecdotally the responses are better because everyone who loves the books stopped somewhere in season one and then most of us stopped interacting with the show. Rafe is Da'tsang.
As a fan of the books, I haven’t been able to motivate myself to start watching season 2. Rafe hurt me too badly in season 1 lol. However, I have been hearing that this season is an improvement, so I’m thinking of giving it a try.
I actually have started to actively dislike Lanfear/Rand because it 100% is portraying Rand being SA'ed by a Lanfear who is using Compulsion on him and it is actively hard to watch while knowing Rand is not under control of his own mind.
Although the plot has deviated from the books, I'm noticing a lot.of elements from The Great Hunt. Perrin is chasing the horn with the Shienarans, Lanfear has pulled Rand into the Cairhien game of houses, and the Seanchan are headed for Falme. I suspect that Mat/Min and Rand/Moiraine will wind up in Falme. I also noticed a possible reference to book 3 in the preview for episode 5.
I'd like to note that everyone staying on this series is affording it something it has yet to earn, respect. There are far too many worthy series to watch to suffer through a season where we know there will be no pay offs. Lan is a crybaby, Moiraine is no longer manipulative and cunning (though the world acts as though she is when any of us in this fantasy setting would find is quite the opposite), not to mention three episodes that go nowhere outside of Nynaeves' Ascendance. And then she receives the shawl in a scene not shown and resolved as if she didn't just have the most traumatic experience of her life. The other Warders have more screen time than Mat because they rushed this. I bet more care was spent on catering than the script. And all the fanbase can do is cope. You give this the time of day when most fans have walked off. They better be outsourcing some views soon. I see more and more people waving this show away and good riddance!
While this ad plays I’ll answer the question that the topic of this video asks… yes. It’s hella good. Wayyyyy better than season 1. Still far from where I’d like it but when you got my gf calling Logain the false dragon and saying “He’s the dragon, b***h!” That’s a win for me! As a book reader seeing her fall in love with the world is what it’s all about honestly. 😅
I really believe we have to look at this season as E1-4 is part 1, E5-8 is part 2. Part 2 I am expecting a lot more of Perrin and Mat, Egwene's plotline is about to explode, Nynaeve will take more of a backseat supporting role, It seems to be shaping up as Rand and Morraine v Lanfear in Carhien. Totally agree about Lan, looks to be an unnecessarily messy to me, bit like make work for Daniel.
I don't entirely understand straying from source material when the source material is considered the greatest fantasy epic of all time. Don't @ me, it is. 😝 Season 2 sucks less than Season 1. If that's a compliment, then so be it. I'm still begrudgingly watching, but I also started reading the book series again in protests.
I feel for all you book readers that are not getting what you hoped for. For me as a non book reader I have become more invested in the characters and story with S2. That’s thanks to channels like yours that give me background on who these characters are in the books and their true motivations. Im looking for good tv and a story that keeps me engaged. I stopped watching the TH-camrs that just post rants about how they are butchering the source material. I just want the book spoiler’s for context so I can understand what this world is about. Don’t care what’s being changed just make a quality show with good acting. I will keep watching. Thanks for your channel and content. Your the reason I am watching the show.
You see, while I'm glad that non-book readers are enjoying this show, I'm saddened that the hype seems to mostly come from _outside_ the show, from the book community providing context (that may or may not even end up being relevant to the show). GoT didn't need hand-holding. On the contrary, I think most book readers had a blast sadistically _withholding_ context and enjoying the shock on the face of non book readers. I know _I_ did.
As a non-bookreader, it has been great tv...so far! But as we all know, it's about sticking the landing. Season 1 was shaky, and the ending episode even shakier🎡🎡🎡⌚️⌚️⌚️
Agreed. Need more Mat & Perrin. I like Lan and his actor... but not his plotline so far this season. Episode 4, thought his part could have been shortened significantly there could have been more of the others... I've not like him & Moiraine this season... and last episode would have been much better without all Lan/Alanna/Warder stuff... it was too long and dragging at that part.
I'm holding off any form of criticism of changes until I see how they pay off in the end. I'm enjoying it as a standalone show (avid book fan). Season 1 suffered from bad production quality, COVID restrictions, and Barney Harris leaving at the worst possible time (and very poor recovery). The only thing I don't like about Season 2 so far is Lan. Highlight: Liandrin. She was such a mid character in the books, but holy shit, Kate Fleetwood is KILLING IT on the show as a love-to-hate-her villain. The Lanfear arc is great. Ishamael being a cold, calculating "am I *truly* evil?" villain is a great change to allow some of the other Forsaken to be a bit more unhinged. I can't wait to see my girl Aviendha, though
I'm enjoying this season more than last season. And I totally agree with you about Lan... I find his plot line completely uninteresting and I'm not sure why they are compelled to spend more time on Lan than Perrin and Matt
I love the books and I love the series. To finally see it on screen to me is just a joy. And after 2020 and Covid taking away entertainment for everyone on the planet... it gave me a different point of view. I no longer critique as harshly, now I just sit back and appreciate and enjoy much more. And I am definitely enjoying this era of WOT!!! Carai an Caldazar!
Agreed, life just feels better when I focus on the things I enjoy rather than things I dislike. WoT has been my favourite book series since I picked it up in '99 and it feels wonderful to see the characters on TV. Being able to theorize once again because the show does deviate is just a gift.
The show just isn’t very good. The characters are nothing like the books and the show isn’t even internally consistent and is riddled with plot holes. Barely anything has actually happened in the show and we’re half way into the season. They keep wasting time on irrelevant plot lines and it’s flat out disgraceful and insulting to the books that the show defenders claim they had to change from the books to fit things in when they’ve tossed the books out the window and are adding in their own nonsense. Even considered as it’s own thing the show is just dreadfully boring.
Overall, I like S2 better so far but it's not a blowout by any means. I liked S1 quite a lot too, especially considering the kick in the teeth it had to surmount. Also, S1 E4 is STILL my favorite episode. I just really enjoyed the Lanaeve performances in S1 and the ending of E4 was astonishing. This season, Kate (Liandrin) is absolutely stealing it for me, even after an excellent S1 (and Zoe still being excellent). The actors in both seasons have been remarkably good by any standard. Only Foundation comes close in acting (and writing/adaptation). Also, the cold opens in S1 were better! Logain, Dragonmount,... And I miss the S1 opening titles!
I predict at least seven more instances of seeing someone from a frontal view perspective get stabbed and run through with a blade from behind, several more instances of Nynaeve fake-out deaths, several more three way jokes, several more times that Nynaeve explodes with Saidar… it seems that there are a few tricks the show keeps using too often.
I agree with a lot of what Nae'blis said in this review. At the same time as I'm watching the show, as a book reader, I'm constantly trying to explain why this decision or that was made. Maybe the 2nd half of the season will clean things up but right now the overall story feels aimless.
It got me rereading The Wild Hunt and it's a strange experience/feeling. I can see the changes they made but my brain can't process them as ANYTHING I already know. It's the same in theory but somehow I have no idea what is going to happen and who is going to do what and when. It's kind of a cool experience, even IF it isn't the same as the books. I like it more than season one, although there are a few areas where I wonder where the hell they could possibly be going with it. It's going in it's own direction, and I don't hate it, but I don't LOVE it, just like it, and you're right when you said it's a new interpretation.
Lan’s story is lacking it is probably hard as he doesn’t have POV chapters in most of the early books other than in New Spring but I still feel like I got a good idea of his character through the eyes of others and it really isn’t coming through in this season. Also Perrin’s character seems off at this point in the story. I saw him as more conscious of his actions and gentle in the early part of the story. Mat’s character seems to be there but need to see more, I hope they have him be the hero to his friends that he is in the books and hopefully with all the sass Liking most of the white tower plots this season. And honestly I’m connecting more to Rand’s character in show this season. Moraine and Lan plot not a fan of, I enjoyed their relationship in the books and that was one thing season 1 I think did better. Overall I am still enjoying the show.
I really thought Rafe said Season 1 was the way it was so Season 2 and beyond could be closer to the Books. I definitely do not see that at all. It’s hard to judge at this point if it’s good or not because we simply don’t know where the story is going or where it should be, which we might be able to do if it adhered more closely to the books. That said, 8 episodes are just too damn short to do any justice to the story told in the books, much less a story that is doing it’s own thing while cramming stuff in from Books 2, 3 and 4 (at least I think it’s pulling stuff from 3 books and it’s own unique storylines…10 episodes would be the absolute minimum number of 50 minute episodes per season. As it is, it seems sooo much is crammed in and yet almost like nothing is happening because every storyline gets so little time to develop, especially going it’s own direction throwing so many scenes in that didn’t happen and not sticking to the books! Robert Jordan was a best selling author for a reason, and it irks me when tv writers apparently think they can do better? Adapt the story of RJ’s for television, but don’t freaking destroy it for your own story which so far has been absolutely NOT compelling and underwhelming in the extreme. If you want to avoid boring things, Moraine being without her channeling powers has been abysmal. Nyneave not being able to channel unles she’s angry is annoying since she’s actually always pissed at something (don’t get me wrong, the actress is fantastic but why not change the things that are boring to watch if they are going to butcher the story? Hurry the freak up and have Nymaeve heal Loagain and then Moiraine, and for gods sake show Rand learning some powers like traveling so they can freaking get places since they aren’t bothering with any character development going places the slow old fashioned way. Show why Rand and Nyneave are so powerful. We’ve barely seen the Seanchan - their invasion has been one group of a few buildings and not much else. I get zero sense of a threat or any sort of sizable army or invasion from them. And where’s the other Frosaken? They should,do have introduced a couple or even a few females to throw the obvious fact that it’s Selene off- have 2 or 3 female forsaken then it might have been surprising to non-bookies when she turned out to be one. Pulling the forsaken from the land of dreams with the Seanchan collar on was one of my favorites as was them finding stuff in museums they could use and I’m so afraid they aren’t going to do that. And even the incidental stuff is just being totally ignored; seeing giant statues and ruins of buildings and structures was something I LOVED in the books; you were constantly reminded that this worked had been something far. Ore advanced before and was destroyed by the dark one and his forsaken underlings; here they just have no presence, no impact even when on screen.; As for the ruins and remnants of the age of legends (like the statues, and bridges and giants unknown ruins of devices? Buildings? we’ve had NONE of that this season! Trollocs and Forsaken? One brief scene that went nowhere. I swear when Rand finds out this world is our world in the books it rocked me; but they sort of already did this last season in the usual rushed, less interesting way and I really HATE sounding like a book snob who just disses the tv series but it really is just failing to be anything like the story that millions feel in love with. They aren’t telling Robert Jordan;s Heeel of Time, or if they are they are completely NOT managing to make any of the threats on every side feel tangible or in the back of our minds growing ever more urgent..the blight has been forgotten, the Seanchan just feel like one small group and not the invasion force they are supposed to be, Trollocs snd Fades are barely mentioned and even barely appeared and seem not too scary and Forsaken are should already have a few more so we know the ultimate big bad the Dark One is terrifying business but we’ve just been told the dude we see isn’t him but his main lieutenant… who just seems like maybe he was misunderstood deltoid and not such a bad guy? SHOW US more, tell us less, and focus on INTERETSING STUFF like the book stories. Because your made up alternative scenes or “this happened even tho is wasnt in the book” just are NOT anywhere near as clever or as interesting or intriguing or thought provoking as Robert Jordan’s. He managed to convey so much more and kept in mind showing us.i want to love this series, I want to be thrilled every time I watch it, and yes, the quality has gone up, but it’s just not that interetsing. And certainly Robert Jordan’s epic adapter for a different medium. It’s somebody else who is telling some story because I don’t really think they read the same books or they’d be working a helluva lot harder to preserve those wonderful scenes and stories than this “dull alternative turn of the wheel” that we;re getting here. And all this was said because I LOVE this series and want to see THIS SERIES not someone’s else’s story with characters named the same.
If they really mess up the story and not show Matt dueling it out with Galad and Gwayn with the quarter staff scene in the tower, at least I enjoyed it again recently listening to audio books and Matt's gaining the Band of the Red Hand after being in the Aiel Waste. Matt's quarter staff duel was one of the best scenes in the books. Only hoping they show Matt going through the doors in Tear and in Ruideahn (bad spelling) for his answers and gifts that propel his plot line and character throughout the whole story.
From the beginning I regarded the show as a loose reinterpretation inspired by Jordan's books rather then an adaptation and as such I've enjoyed every minute of it. S2 is a major step up in terms of... well, almost everything, but for casting and acting, which have been spot on from the start. My biggest issue is how short the episodes and the seasons are. Every way I try to boil WoT down to its essence and imagine this within the scope of 8 one-hour-long episodes, I come short. I loved the darkfriend social, the marketplace with the lionfish, the time with Alanna's family, Errol and Moiraine's sister - the source material has literally hundreds of pages with vivid descriptions of locations, people and life in the Randlands. Concentrating only on action and the main cast wouldn't give us the feeling of a vast, culturally complex and believable lived-in world. But I agree that due to budgetary concerns we (book fans) aren't getting a compelling story - it's more like we're being shown glimpses of a story of which much is hidden, missing or taking place offscreen. Still, to be able to see the White Tower, Hopper, the great performances, locations and costumes on screen! Lets be honest, it's a privilege. And I hold in high regard that the show makers included such a versatile cast in terms of age and ethnicity. Mature men and women playing attractive and powerful characters, love it! I believe it's the most diverse show out there. 9/10 so far for me. With 1,5 hours per episode it would've been perfect.
I pretty much find myself agreeing with everything you have said. I’m not enjoying the Lan plot line. Outside of the Seanchan, Perrin has been pretty boring. Mat has nothing to do. But on the other side I’m enjoying Liandrin and Rand immensely. The white tower scenes for the most part have been interesting. But it’s seems slow. I think it’s a good show but not great. And I so wanted a great show to match the greatest of the books. Season one 7.5, Season two 7.5
Amazon got the rights, wanted their own Game of Thrones, but didn't want to put the money and time into making good. Please stop with the cop out of book readers vs non book readers. The show is based on the books and should be judged that way. It isn't a brand new property. The director of the Godfather movie didn't focus most of the time on Fredo and then say "well the movie is really about bringing in non book readers." Not interested in good acting if the story isn't up to the quality of the acting. Who is this story about? In the books the protagonist is Rand. In the show is it Lan, Moiraine, Nynaeve? We don't really know. Story is all over the place with bit characters, and supporting characters being put center stage since episode 1, and the 3 characters who are Ta'veren are more or less the supporting characters. On the show what was Perrins motivation for going after the Horn? Who knows? He just went. Why is he even on the show at this point? If he wasn't there would we have missed anything? In the books all 3 boys went with the Shinaran's to get the dagger for Mat. That was their motivation. The horn was secondary for the 3 of them. Instead they split up the 3 main characters on a show that is an hour long and have spent most of the time with storylines for secondary characters. Have they explained the motivation for the "bad guys" yet? Talk about one dimensional! There is so much wrong with the show and so many opportunities missed. Everything seems rushed and when small steps would be best to move the story along they make giant leaps and vice versa. I can honestly say up to this point I don't care about any of the characters, the way they have been written none of them, including Rand would be missed if they never appeared again. I will say that this seems to be another in a long line of book adaptations were the show runners loved the books but convinced themselves that they could make it better and did the complete opposite. The heavy lifting was already done by Robert Jordan, they didn't need to try and reinvent the Wheel of Time. If you like the show, great I hope you continue to enjoy it. I have watched it as well and will continue to watch it hoping that somehow it gets better, but I don't have a great deal of hope. 3/10
I love the books and Matt is personally my favorite character with that said I really hate what they have done with his character he is so much more dynamic. I do love most of what has gone on with Nymeave. The overall show is growing on me but I wish they would have stayed a little closer to the source material. Thanks for your videos and personal insight. Also I want much more of the wolf dream
I agree with you about Mat but think back......was he your favorite character before Falme? He is absolutely my favorite character in the books but it really did not take off until he had a certain quarterstaff fight
@@mikewinterif what the writers have said is true, and they are adapting TGH and TDR in S2, and S3 will be more TSR, when exactly does Mat get his quarterstaff fight with Galad and Gawyn in the Warder training yard? Are they dragging Mat back to the Tower, again? He's already been there, and the beat they invented for him (i.e. Liandrin's prisoner) is one of the weakest in the show. Now that he has left the Tower, the time to hold his famous staff fight has surely passed. After Falme, and since the entire Stone of Tear arc from TDR is likely reduced or cut, Mat probably needs to be accompanying Rand into the Waste in S3, headed to Rhuidean (assuming that isn't cut or massively changed as well). There's no time to spare to have him kicking around in Tar Valon yet again.
@@mikewinter yes, Mat was quite whiny and irritating in the first two books...even now when I reread he annoys me, even though he is one of my two favourite characters! So it seems reasonable that he will need some space to develop over the rest of S2, hopefully to step up as the awesome character he is. I have to say the story so far has focused on him being a terrible gambler. The books only mention him gambling once in Fal Dara, before making it a major part of his arc in book 3. So I think the show is setting this up really well.
@ThumbMerrilin That is devastating if true. Easily one of the most iconic scenes of any character in the entire series and a turning point for Mat as a character. It is such an easily adapted part of the book, as well; how could they even consider not using it? I keep reading comments that make me go back and forth between wanting to give the show another go and just burying the memory of it lol.
I like the show and crave for more. Yes, I do agree with a few characters that should have more parts but I can understand it's hard to wrap and show everything
I'm enjoying the second season and like it more than the first season, but I don't think of the show as an adaptation of the books. Rather I think of the show as being inspired by Wheel of Time. I think an adaptation should at least keep the main story in tact and I don't feel the show is doing that.
I wrote it off in season 1. Came back for season 2. The best way to explain it is an analogy. If you have a jug of sour milk in the refrigerator, just throw it away. Dont put it back in the fridge and try it again a week later to see if its suddenly not sour. It wont be. It'll be even worse. That's season 2.
Watched the first season then read the books (audio books). The second season 3rd episode got me at the end. Never gonna be exactly like the books because the actors would be in their 60’s at the end of the series lol. So far so good
Honestly I gave up on the Wheel of Time when it first released as a book series. My favorite character Mat ended up under a wall, and I waited a whole year or more for the next book, only for him not to appear. Robert Jordan’s world building was amazing, but it’s clear on re-reads he often didn’t quite know where he was going, he added on some things, retrofitted others, and expanded plot lines that kind of went nowhere and had other plot lines that dragged on in the same rut for ages. Having revisited the series after its completion, I do enjoy it, but I’m glad that we’re not adapting the book scene for scene or even beat for beat. Liandrin is a delight on screen, and she was a mediocre character at best in the books. Elayne has had more character traits from later on pulled in earlier and is fresh and interesting on screen vs Egwene who is giving great Hermione vibes. Rand’s story has been quite altered and people are super eager for some God Mode to be activated, but Jordan’s whole point of writing the Wheel of Time (from interviews in the audiobooks) is that the typical Hero’s journey is a little too straightforward and clean cut, and the reality would be hilariously different. His role in the season finale has already been forshadowed and should hopefully be epic. Perrin’s team up with Elyas and wolf brother training and mind-games with Ishamael are awesome, and the wolf language is corny and a nice entry into more surreal stuff to come. Mat and Min’s pairing is great on screen and very interesting, banter is solid, and getting the tone of each character is spot on, and Min’s Darkfriend temptation is a fascinating choice. I couldn’t stand early book series Nynaeve although she ends up close to the top, and Zoe is playing her so complexly and conflicted, and now traumatized, her relationship with the Aes Sedai is going to be great. Pike’s stilled/shielded Moiraine is great and delivering nuance and cold-hearted ruthlessness we know she’s capable of. The scenes where she played Domon and Logain and got pinned by her sister are amazing, and the scenes where she’s pushing Lan away are intentionally painful to watch. So far, the one really weak storyline is the Lan and the Warders. Lan does a lot of stuff ‘off screen’ in the books so it’s great to give him more time, I just don’t like the Lan I’m meeting on screen. I honestly think they just don’t have anyone on staff in the writer’s room who can process emotions the way I imagine someone like al’Lan Mandragoran, last King of Malkier would. He’s too uncentered and uncertain, when we know full well the reaction he had for having his bond passed on in the books. Barely suppressed incandescent rage. Maybe they’re trying to soften it, or they’re going to shift things around but right now it’s just not landing. Plot wise it’s a 7, character-wise it’s an 8 (minus Lan), adaptation-wise it’s definitely WoT, a bit rocky still this season, but getting stronger, so a 7.
I’ve read the books some time ago, so my memory isn’t as fresh as it is for those who have re-read them - but for what it’s worth, I think it is a very good adaptation thus far. Like with lord of the rings on the movie screen, there is just too much material to do all of it justice, so some adaptation and combining of characters is necessary. Though I do also think they could have done with at least 10 episodes per season to give a bit more space to world building.
I totally agree that Perrin and Mats arc are kinda lacking. And Lan's is absolutely lacking. Hopefully they all get stepped up to the same level m as some of the others. And omg I never thought I'd be rooting for Liandrin, ever. Great video, as usual 😊
Perrin takes so long to find who he is in the books that half the "slog" is blamed on his plot line, but by the end he is such a force that I will wait patiently; he always says he is slow to get things, and proves it in the narrative, but I feel the show might give him some moments to shine soon
@alcovitch I would say the "strong female characters" have about az much page time as Perrin, Mat and Rand. The series isn't about just the three boys. Or have you not actually read the last book?
@@tabithachisholm1744 lmao "the last book". Of 14 books. Hardly selling your point. Yes, i read them all. The 3 boys are the main characters, even if some of the women have pov chapters. The show focuses almost all of its time on the women characters, or have you not watched the show?
@alcovitch if you've read it, you may have missed the point. Spollers for AMOL. "Here is your flaw, Shaitan, Lord of the Dark, Lord of Envy, Lord of Nothing, here is why you fail. It was not about me. It’s never been about me.” It was about a woman, torn and beaten down, cast from her throne and made a puppet. A woman who had crawled when she had to. That woman still fought. It was about a man that love repeatedly forsook. A man who found relevance in a world that others would have let pass them by. A man who remembered stories and who took fool boys under his wing when the smarter move would have been to keep on walking. That man still fought. It was about a woman with a secret, a hope for the future. A woman who had hunted the truth before others could. A woman who had given her live, then had it returned. That woman still fought. It was about a man whose family was taken from him, but who stood tall in his sorrow and protected those he could. It was about a woman who refused to believe that she could not help, could not heal those who had been harmed. It was about a hero who insisted with every breath that he was anything but a hero. It was about a woman who would not bend her back while she was beaten, and who shown with a light for all who watched, including Rand. It was about them all." ~Rand al Thor Robert Jordan, A
Not sure they do a good job of developing the strength of power....Egwene and Elayne have been in tower 5 months and they show no indications of strength or development....maybe some of those one on one interactions could have started showing them tossing a power wrought ball of light between each other and then developed into 2,3,4 different color/sizes being juggled between them to show their development. These two will become two of the strongest channelers in the tower and all we can see of that is....words about being 10x less than Nyn
Book departure and Lan’s plot is really making this hard for me. Rafe said they’d get closer to the books along season 3 so I pray that happens. I’m just bummed because TGH was one of my favorite books in the series and it feels half assed
Rafe is a damn hack. Don't believe a word that weirdo says.
I'm having a hard time with it. It's such a departure that I have to stop and consider if I like the changes or not. I'm only 4 episodes in the new season, and it feels like it's dragging. I feel like Mat, Perrin, and Rand are barely in it. I just don't see how these characters are going to turn into the Mat, Perrin, and Rand that I love.
They won't... not in this show... that's been pretty clear for a while.
I feel it's a shame, because the books were way more balanced regarding...all the gender stuff.
Ok, the wonder gurls were unbearable, but let's be honest, so were the boys for a long part of the story.
Then Rand came to an orchard...
(And you just can't approach the power and its intricacies without evocating the male, female part, their consequences, and their differences with the One Power...the show is literally screwing that part up- and it's maybe the most important one...)
@@ChristmasLore... You summed up my feelings exactly. I'm sorry to say that I just can't watch it at all. 😢
And then killing Uno off was the last straw!
The pacing is just wayyy too slow for the amount of story they need to cram in. It like gives me creeping anxiety when halfway through an episode nothing has even happened haha
It's both too slow and not enough time has been spent on the main characters. In 10-12 hrs you could have done books 1-4.
I absolutely agree this show is doing a disservice to the core of the story. Great actors for each character but the plot lines are terrible. I actually be asking myself did they even read any of the books in it's entirety. It looks like they open the first few books of WOT went over a few chapters mixed them together and said this is it. Smh
A friend asked me how the season was going since I've talked about it randomly during the summer. I told him that it's been decent. Quality has been much improved. But it's not following the books as much as I would like.
Quality has improved (they literally had no choice...), but I disagree with Naeblis: it's not good TV.
It's okeyish TV, at best.
It's sad somehow, because some of the casting has been outstanding (thinking mostly about the Lan, Liandrin, Rand actors, and Min too, oh, and Alvaro...- I'm not good with names)
Rand, Mat and Perrin were secondary characters in season one and they are secondary in the first half of this season. They aren’t going to magically get more focus in the second half. Egwene damane arc and rescue will certainly be the primary plot of the second half given how much Rafe loves the girls.
Its called woke hoolywood my friend. Even if the book series has lots and lots of strong and interesting female chatacters its just not enough for wokeism. They need to minimilize the importance of every male as much as possible. The story and making a faithful adaption is secondary to this .
@@Skrangelbenright and makes a lot of sense in a universe where women already completely dominate the power structure in the entire world.
@@LordBrizz It is an change in the adaptation that some would like and some would dislike. My comment was more to address Nae’blis’s hope that the boys story will pick up in the second half.
Deviation from the original source content is too be expected.
With that being said, you can clearly see how little the writers have dove into the whole WoT universe. Some changes they have made already… have huge ramifications on the story in general.
It’s sucks forcing myself to sit through each episode. Hoping it gets better. Hoping.
The potential this show has is immense from what I see so far it won't hit the heights it should.
I just realized the next half will be The Dragon Reborn. The Great Hunt ended with the reveal of Selene being Lanfear, just like in episode 4.
VERY annoyed. The writing is better, but the direction infuriates me.
Example of having both: One Piece live action. You CAN adapt faithfully, add and combine elements, and still have enough decent writing to make people want to watch the show. There is a reason One Piece live action was the number one streamed show for 2 weeks now, something people thought was unadaptable.
One Piece is the most streamed, but it is anyway bad.
If they stick the landing I can see myself rating the season as whole an 8/10. They have to stick it though. No S1E8 shenanigans this time.
I don't find myself caring about Alanna and her warders, to the point I'm not 100% on their names.
The show loses the soul of the characters from the book completely. I mean Lan crying during that warder funeral in season 1 really did me in. Al Lan Mandragoran Lord of the Seven towers in the book says “In war, you say a prayer for your dead and ride on, because there is always another fight over the next horizon”….does the show capture that essence of Lan? I think not. One example of many.
The biggest, and really only problem I have with how the series is going is the casting of Thom. Sure; he was great, for the 10 minutes he's been on screen. Far, far better in my view to have gone with the second choice and have him get the full time his character needs to actually meet and interact with the rest of the cast than to get 2 quick cameos in the first 2 seasons. I hear the arguments that his interactions in the first 3 books 'aren't that important'; but that's nonsense. Like every character in every story their early actions and interactions are the foundations of their later actions and interactions.
Thanks for articulating this, Thom is my favorite character from the books and totally wished I had 1000% more of him.
I know it's time-consuming, but the ONLY thing I'm mourning in S2 is the Cairhien Game, especially its culmination in Thom's biggest moment.
The problem with Thom was not the casting, it was that they made him into a completely different character than he is in the books. Frankly, it wouldn't hurt my feelings if they just cut him entirely from the rest of the series because he isn't the book character in any way.
@@Darm0k One of the best things I've found about the Wheel of Time is how many different character interpretations there are. The Thom we got is the one who bargained away his freedom with Moiraine for a list of names of people to brutally murder... and then brutally murdered those people offscreen because it wasn't worth it for us get that on-screen. The Thom who brought down a kingdom because his girlfriend died over politics. The Thom who sat on a rock cleaning his knife with a pile of bodies hidden in the bushes. Do you remember that Thom? I do. And we saw him singing a song about Lews Therin Telamon that I would have expected that Thom to sing. Perhaps in High Chant, sure, but still our Thom.
The cartoon veneer for Thom works in some locations, and we'll probably get to see some of that... not as cartoony as he was in the early books because the early books were simply so cartoony as to be unrealistic (just ask Nynaeve running around beating the crap out of everyone anime style)
@@Novagenesis The Thom you're describing voluntarily hid behind the "cartoon" veneer. It's not the same character to me. I know there are too many characters and not enough screen time, but the show has given us lots of time with characters that weren't in the books or were not very important in the books.
Its an improvement on S1, i dont think anyone can deny that, but i dont think its a good show still. Season 1 was like a 3/10, this season is perhaps a 5-6/10 this far imo.
It's basically the Nynaeve show right now and im wondering why Perrin and Mat is even in this. They are doing fuck all lol and are not really similar to their book characters either imo. Lan is just a travesty at this point and as you rightly pointed out his storyline is committing the worst sin possible: being boring! Rand is alright i guess and Egwene i'm just waiting for her to actually get some screen time.
Bro i love Nynaeve, she's probably my favorite character in the books, but i dont think its good that the show is taking so much time from all the other characters and pouring it into her. It's especially obvious for Egwene since they are kinda similar characters in the show, it just feels like Rafe took half of Egwenes screen time and gave it to Nynaeve.
To be fair i think the actress playing Nynaeve is smashing it. For me, if they got rid of the sub plot with alannas warders and replaced it with time spent with perrin and mat we would be there.
Probably to correct for Season 1, where Egwene could suddenly heal. A weave she of INFAMOUSLY bad at in the books, but apparently she can bring people back from the dead on the show :P
Looking at the stats (/wot/ on Reddit has them) Perrin has moved up into second place after Nynaeve in terms of screen time, just not words: he's down in 12th. Which makes sense for who he is, a super talkative Perrin would be WEIRD.
After screen time and word count there is a third chart for talkativeness (words per minute) and Perrin is right at the bottom!
The only way to cover all the awesomeness that is WoT, would be to have 30 seasons. I do enjoy it for what it is and am trying not to hate it for what it isn't.
Or between 12 and 14 movies, true.
I few like that’s the most realistic way to look at this. No way they can mail everything and shows are never as good as books. But I’m with you, enjoying this for what it is and turning the other cheek when they make me mad…lol
Agreed. I was never one who wanted to see an adaptation. LotR was a pretty great adaptation, but the trilogy is about as big as one book in WoT, so it's a near impossible task to do a decent adaptation. In season 1 I was able to separate the book and the show and get some enjoyment out of it. Can't seem to do that in season 2. If I had never read the books I would enjoy the show but as it is I can't watch anymore. I only made it through episode 2 so maybe I'll give it a chance sometime, but as of now I'm just too annoyed with the complete lack of respect they show the books.
I honestly wish they would have done the War of Power and the breaking instead. I just think that would be a really fun plot to follow and it would be easier to make it more GoT, which I think if we're being honest was what Amazon wanted.
Needed to be animated
They made Lanfear as terrifying as she is supposed to be in like 30 seconds this season. Book readers would know what she did to a fat caravan driver at one point and this last episode showed THAT version of her.
I didn’t quite get that from her but I’m happy with the Selene character.
I wouldn't want to be a fat caravan driver living in the foregate in Cairhein next episode... she's going to do something unhinged next episode. My guess: she starts a fire to burn a big chunk of the foregate, realizes that she's not winning Rand over that way and then makes peace with him based on her saying she's going to win him over eventually and then peaces out for now.
They turned her into a monster. That actually makes her less terrifying. Monsters do monster things after all. What should make Lanfear so scary is that she is seemingly a human being perfected and yet she does the most monstrous of things. She's broken on the inside and that makes her interesting and yes, terrifying.
I would love to see a scene of her being spurned by her lover from 3,000 years ago, maybe after her discoveries that brought chaos to the world? Most non-book readers I heard thought that her former lover was Ishamael/Dark One. I think a cold open revelation of why she's so obsessed with Rand will be fantastic, rather than casually dropping that information in a conversation.
@Hangry_Sasquatch That quip doesn’t really work here, considering they are explicitly mentioning book-only scenes lol.
I love the show and am enjoying the newness of it all as I’m not a book reader but I agree that the lack of promotion is hurting things and I really wish they had some sort of brief narration or written explanations of what’s happening Sonia non book readers had something to go from each episode
An improvement from season 1? Yes. A vast improvement? Not so much, in my opinion. After 4 episodes, I'd give this season a 6 out of 10, compared to a 4 out of 10 for season 1. They had a golden opportunity to learn from the mistakes of season 1 and deliver a nice, tight story following the hunt for the horn in season 2. It's a narrative from the source material that seems tailor-made for a good season of television, but that opportunity has not been seized, IMO.
PROS: as you pointed out, production value is improved from season 1. The White Tower characters and story are interesting (especially with the addition of Elayne), if at times slow-paced. Introduction of the Seanchan was done pretty well in terms of visuals and tone, also. The acting remains solid overall and really good at times - I think the casting + acting is saving the series.
CONS: the show is giving the three main characters (Rand, Matt, Perrin) f*&$ all to do. I'll throw Lan into that same plot abyss. Their role in the events of the story should be well balanced with that of Nynaeve, Eqwene, Moiraine, etc., and this show does not understand that. Basic things like character motivation, giving them interesting traits and choices to make, showing how they react to adversity, are all absent from season 2 thus far. (side note: moping can be an interesting way for a character to react, but when all of your main characters do it, it gets boring really fast).
It did not have to be this way. Start season 2 by getting your main characters together, show why they are motivated to chase the horn OR go to the White Tower. Then send them on their way, together on one of those two journeys, by the end of episode 1. The follow up episodes then become explorations of what they are doing on each of those journeys, and the obstacles they overcome along the way. Plenty of opportunity to develop the characters, but it's done with the plot actually moving forward. Instead, we've been essentially stuck in place with our characters in several different locations, with little direction or motivation for them. I want this to be a great show, and instead it's just so-so.
That's a very fair take.
I feel you are still being very generous to the show. Frankly, I don't care so much that the series is changing things, it's that the changes the show keeps making are ruining the characters left and right carelessly. Adapting always comes with change, it's just not good change. If it weren't for the acting, there would be nothing of value at all in the show.
Also will note that so far Season 2 is better in production value but worse in almost every other way. I find the writing and changes to be of an even lower quality than season 1, and the neutering of Moiraine is just... Well, I don't like it. It's a real struggle watching this show as a huge fan of the books and I can really respect Robert Jordan's hesitancy to license this world out when he was alive. No wonder Brandon Sanderson refuses to give up any creative control in licensing.
Sometimes I feel that Judkins is a worse screenwriter than the average reader of the books. And I usually do not fall in this trivial opinion. But I feel he's confused and does not know where to go (because he is not fit for his role).
Very balanced take, I'd tend to agree with most of the points you made
Totally agree about changes to the source material. I'm not opposed to the changes just because they are different from the books. I'm opposed to them when they make no sense and cheapen the characters.
You can (and should) make changes when doing an adaptation. But what you put on screen still has to be good. @@LordBrizz
So far I have had trouble getting immersed in the story. That is probably due to the divergence from the books. It is not bad perse. I agree with your assessment of the Lan plotline so far, although it feels like it is being set up to become a lot bigger.
Awesome. I've been waiting for your state of the season review. Thank you!
The wussification of Lan has been a big let down. Where’s the badass, last king, greatest swordsmen of all time at?
In One Piece
I wouldn't put it this way, but it does bring up whether we're going to get a character arc in this book where Lan BECOMES the best swordsman of all time by the end, rather that basically being that person already in the books. Lan doesn't really change much in the books other than falling in love behind the scenes. It would be cool to see a really good swordsman become the best. Hoping so!
I don't want to go back and rewatch it, so that tells me how good it is. I'm so dissapointed in their choices. The actors are doing very well, but the story is ridiculous.
Better than last season, but that's a really low bar. IMO, this season sits at a 5/10 so far. I really want it to be good, and am holding out some hope, but that hope's starting to fade.
Good thing I'm not a reviewer. The entirety of my video would be "It's not an adaptation, but ignoring that it's okay I guess".
The White Tower stuff has all been awesome so far, but almost every other main character's plot has seemed very lackluster or just underrepresented. It feels like the showrunner and writers are playing favorites. I wish Mat could have been worked into the hunt for the Horn of Valere in some way, because as of right now I don't see how he'll end up where he needs to be by the end of the season.
One of those things that we may have a different opinion on by the end of the season
@@NaeBlis Fingers crossed!
Ummmmmmm what do i think, ok I think up until episode 4 I was ok saying it is a better tv show, the girls (Mo excepted) are actually great and the Liandrin thing is interesting - but at the expense of the lads, and the way we are characterizing said lads is bordering on malicious intent, despite the actors best efforts (which is greatly appreciated mind you). After Ep 4 id say im back to this is a mal-adaptation and it's gross what theyve done to much loved characters, and its not just the men - this Min thing is just unreal. And no mater where we are, we have to have our boys being led around by the nose by a girl. They have Zero Agency. It is what it is - and you can be sure once Perrin and Avi meet up he'll be in the same spot as the others. Lan, is just heartbreaking with the choices they have made. It's honestly hard to believe so I am doing my best to pretend that nonsense is not real. Bah - i dont know why every negative change and mis-step is confined to the lads, they seem to be able to get the wonder girls right. People will speculate but I dont really care for the reason. It makes it really hard to digest and infuriating when you see such a bastardisation of characters you've loved for decades.
As long as they just use the names and move the story elements around as they see fit, I’m not interested. This is like another turning of the wheel with different events but the exact same people. Your synopses are more then enough for me
Lan is the biggest disappointment for me, i miss Book Lan . Overall im fine with the Show (as Show not as Adaption)
Also no Mat at all so far.
No, it's a terrible show. Especially as a WoT rip-off. Rand isn't the main character and he comes off almost like a villain. Moiraine comes off as an arrogant moron, Lan is a simp, Mat and Min are both ruined, Perrin is still a wife-killer, and even Nynaeve is nowhere near her source material. The story is not internally consistent and I have no hope in the writers making it better - it's the most expensive fan-fic in history and I will be happy when it's cancelled (either already now or after season 3). The 10.000ish people watching will be sad but millions of book fans can have hope for an actually adaption again.
Myself, I am glad they are doing the Wheel of Time now. I've just got Amazon Prime now to watch Season 1 & 2. The first season was ok overall. Season 2 is better. I am disappointed in the departure from the book overall. However, it is following some. The way they are doing the Forsaken is interesting and
My question is how the are they going to get through books 2 and 3 worth of material (as they said this season covers both of those books) when we are half way through the season and the plot has not really moved along at all. Basically only character development has occured so far which is fine but i am just worried that the last 4 episodes are going to basically happen at lightspeed. We haven't really seen the Seanchan or the Aiel yet and we know both will be introduced this season. I assume they will want to give each culture a good episode worth of material to give some proper background and explanation for their motives etc. Basically that leaves 1 episode each for the battle at Falme and then another episode for Rand retrieving Callandor. Also basically none of the characters are in the right locations for those plots to unfold so they are going to have to do some serious time jumps in order to get things into place. Just seems to me like they are really setting themselves up for a VERY unevenly paced season.
I think that they have made too many story changes,,and it feels slow and sluggish. Great cinematography though
If this doesn't pick up i doubt i watch season 3. I'm also placing a bet that one of the 3 girls blows the horn.
At very end of one of previews it looks like Mat is running toward group of Seanchan leading heroes so I think he still blows horn. now Nyn slipping in and killing Turak with a sword would not shock me at this point.
I am enjoying the show for what it is. That is with lots of criticism. They are just wasting soooooo much time! With this much source material and being visual media, Show Not Tell. There is too much freakin dialogue! Film has certain advantages over books where a picture is worth a thousand words! USE IT! At this rate, half of the main cast will not make it to season 5. But that's a production issue. More employee turnover than a fast food restaurant! Just Pick up the damn pace in story and production! There is no time to stroke the writers' and showrunner's egos, which is what they are doing with all the BS warder subplot! S1 E5 was the biggest waste of resources in history.
I gotta say for books 1-4. Perrin/Mat Plotlines were kinda blah. So I'm hoping this to be changed in series.
I also would add that Logain has been very very good. I really like his character and think he is being developed to perfectly match the spirit of what he was in the books
😂😂😂 he is terrible, and his character doesn't make any sense
I agree with you, I like a lot of the actors choices for most characters and that's why I'm even more frustrated that they have deviated so much from the story. I find it hard to reconcile characters that remind of the book but then are placed in scenes that again deviate so much
@@madmartigan8119so what would you do with an amazing actor? Pay him a huge retainer to get led around the white tower on a leash until season 4? I mean some characters disappear for a long time. In a long run Logain becomes amazing. He is an awesome underused character for the first half of the book series. I love they are giving him more time and that actor is great.
Also it feels like liandrin has gotten more story progression than Rand or Matt.
It’s really confusing.
I agree but I think I understand why. In the books everything develops slowly, including the reader's understanding of the dark forces working in the background against the main cast. The show doesn't have the time to do this effectively. They have to give a face to that group, and Liandrin is a great choice. Then they have to make her a compelling, well rounded character, so that she's not just a giant, walking trope. I think the Liandrein plot line has done a great job of introducing the concept of Darkfriends (and Black Ajah), the Forsaken, and White Tower politics all at the same time. All the other plotlines will benefit from them taking the time to do that, and do it effectively, now. A less careful development of those themes would make Mat's distrust of Aes Sedai, Egwene's White Tower politics plots, etc much less effective, I think.
S2 is an improvement from S1 but still unimpressive to me. With the budget they have it should be a lot better than it is. They seem to be focusing on all the wrong characters. I dunno. They just seem to be arbitrarily butchering the story for no good reason. I'm to the point where I'm not even looking forward to new episodes. Fortunately, the new Ashoka show is just sooo damn good I've been focusing on it!
Overall I'm extremely disappointed. The show just seems choppy to me. A lot of things occurring with no explanations or setup. How does Rand meet Selene? How does Moiraine get Logain away from the Tower? Great to know Loial survived being stabbed. The intro of Elyas was awful and amateurish? Would anyone watching the show know how badass Warders really are? No because there's only like five that you ever see and all they do is swing swords in a tiny courtyard in the Tower. I could go on. I really think that no matter how bad the show is and how much it strays in unnecessary ways from the books, there are a lot of fans who are just happy to see the WOT adapted for television. And I totally get that. But for me and the expectations I had after watching how HBO adapted Game of Thrones this totally misses the mark.
EXACTLY! Anybody that talks about how hard it is to adapt a book to the screen has clearly never read and then watched Game of Thrones. They did soooooo good at bring it to the screen. WOT has been a dumpster fire from S1E1.
Hear, hear!!!
Agree that brooding, emo, Lan is the biggest disappointment of ep 1-4 for me. The changes from the book are fine, once you accept that this is just a different story. I actually really liked how they introduced Lanfear and I think the forsaken regen capabilities are an interesting change.
Overall I’m definitely enjoying this season but 4 episodes in and still feels like the 3 boys and Lan haven’t been given enough meaty character development. I don’t know if we need them to regroup for a while because the Tower stuff is working well when the girls can play off eachother but maybe the boys have been separated too early and for too long? I don’t know but something isn’t quite hitting the mark for me we need more of the main characters to regroup, maybe with Rand and Moiraine if Lan and Logain join them this will be a lot more interesting
I agree with you. Lan's plotline (especially his arc in Episode 4) was the weakest arc.
even as weak as Mat?
Making Lan into a mopey, incompetent bungler?
Garbage writing.
I - like some others - are having a hard time with it. The central narrative has become “Lets find something for Rosamund Sedai” to do -as opposed to the the journey of the EF5. i agree Kate Fleetwood and Zoë Robins have been excellent - but the story lines re Lan, Mat, and Perrin are almost afterthoughts. I also think they have destroyed the Min character - both with bad casting and the her plot line. The new Rand and Selene arc is tolerable, but they have omitted many key developmental things in Rand’s arc. 5/10 at the midpoint.
I just can't get behind the show. I'll watch it and wish I could really enjoy it but it's even the tiny things, the tiny changes and inconsistencies that I just can't look past.
1) there's no mention of egwene bringing Nynaeve back from the dead...
2) no deal is made of Nynaeve coming back through the arches after the aes sedai gave up
3) Perrin has a fkn sword? Wtf?
4) not my Lan
5) Moirane is a bitch
4/10
My wife keeps asking me if this or that is going to happen.
She knows that I have read the books 3 times and am currently on book 5 of the audio books.
I keep having to tell her that they have strayed so far from the books that I have no clue what is going to happen.
That being said, I am enjoying the series as something "based on the books" rather than hating it for deviating so far from the books.
My wife and I are long time book fans. We have been watching The series with our older kids (older teenagers). My wife refuses to watch any more of the season after she watched the first 3 episodes. however, my kids are enjoying it. they like the actors, and they enjoyed the visuals. where they are struggling is on the story line. the writers are not doing a good job telling the story of the will of time.Several times my kids have had questions about things going on. And I have to say, remember in this episode they talked about this. And they're, like, oh, yeah, that didn't really make sense.
I dislike the liberties taken with the story. It makes me sad that some of my favorite moments from the book will not make it into the show. I'm trying to take it as its own thing but... It just isn't true to the story I love.
Despite my previous criticism of the show based on its deviations from the story - I have to give credit to the actors and actresses who are doing a great job. I have to give the production crew a failing grade - because in every episode I watch, there is at least one character that I either can't hear or can't understand what they said. Visuals are good for the most part. I don't know how I feel about the wolf sending segments. I think it was probably the best way to do it - and I'm guessing to make it look any better would have cost significantly more money. My score overall: 6/10 (I really want to make it lower due to my dislike of the deviations - but that isn't fair to the show itself).
Great stuff, looking forward to checking out your episode reviews next, subbed…
As a book fan from 20 years ago who wrote the show off, i think s2 has been way better so hopefully stays improving.
The characters are great. but disappointingly, important relationships are just weak or nonexistent at this point, Lan and Rand, Mat and Thom, barely getting to Perrin and the wolves, Moraine being super rude to Lan. Nynaeve and Egwenes seem to be the only solid pair. I hope they can all reunite and get new footing for these characters and restore more faith in the show before its too late.
totally right bro!
That's the Rub tho about television. Where I'm 💯 with you as I adore these characters relationships I don't think we ever will truly fully get them, because we just can't. We don't have time.
I'm super angry about Thom. If you ask me it's the worst 💯 worst thing about this series. I mean I can literally forgive everything else but man they are doing Thom MFN Merrilin dirtier than a brothel Jacuzzi tub. :: Rant over:: 😂
Back to my o.p we can't give all these relationships time because it isn't action packed and riveting. And yes yes I get it people who read the books don't like the Allana business but I love it and so do most non-readers. I'm hoping that season 3 with the book they are shooting for in mind is full of flashbacks, character building on a deeper level and some badass action scenes. I think we will get more of the two rivers. I'm hopeful.
@@poeticdreamer420Totally I pretty much agree with everything here! Ultimately I agree with your point about relationships in books vs adaptations; however, there are a ton of adaptations that have done it well even if they fall short of the books they are far better than these examples in WoT
@@dinocollins720 yes but how many of them got short changed with 8 episodes and only an hour each? I mean shit, supernatural got more time... So did the vampire diaries 😂
@@poeticdreamer420 lol seems like every show is doing this recently! I freakin hate it lol!!! Why is this a trend?!?!? It's so superficial and surface level you can't dive in!!!
Lanfear the cougar. LOL
Agree, for the most part, with your observations and ratings. I lean a little more towards the 8 level, mainly because of things we know are coming due to the trailers. I am giving them the benefit of the doubt. I hope they improve in the back half compared to season 1, if they haven't learned that lesson, I say we break out the megaphones on Rafe's lawn!
Where is Mat? We haven't got enough of Mat, Perrin and Rand. Also, whatever Lan is doing, he can do off screen.
Not a good wheel of time show but a very decent "legends of the dark magic" show :)
Completely agree on Lan's arc and how it's taking away from others (our main 3).
3 episodes mirror the worst episodes of last season...
More whinging weak warder crap.
@@Visceralreality they need to get over spending extra time on characters just cause those actors are higher profile
The last season wasn't good enough for me to continue, so I've not checked in.
This turning isn't for me.
I still think they need to utterly kill the ending to motivate people to watch season 3. I’m not yet convinced myself. They already have the issue of a lackluster season 1, and it is going to be difficult enough to get a friend to sit through 8 hours and watch season 2 as it is. If they want to get people to watch season 3, the ending of season to HAS to deliver and then some.
They have so much material from the books they could have done but instead they make up crap like the stuff with Lan? Show’s dirt man
Anecdotally the responses are better because everyone who loves the books stopped somewhere in season one and then most of us stopped interacting with the show. Rafe is Da'tsang.
I love the books…
I also love the books, and will watch the show (of which I am not a fan) for as long as its on. The WOT fan in me can't not watch it.
As a fan of the books, I haven’t been able to motivate myself to start watching season 2. Rafe hurt me too badly in season 1 lol. However, I have been hearing that this season is an improvement, so I’m thinking of giving it a try.
@@michaelh9649 It is better but not without issues(Lan), compared with the first series it's leaps better.
I actually have started to actively dislike Lanfear/Rand because it 100% is portraying Rand being SA'ed by a Lanfear who is using Compulsion on him and it is actively hard to watch while knowing Rand is not under control of his own mind.
Compulsion?! What clues in the show are you basing that on?
Although the plot has deviated from the books, I'm noticing a lot.of elements from The Great Hunt. Perrin is chasing the horn with the Shienarans, Lanfear has pulled Rand into the Cairhien game of houses, and the Seanchan are headed for Falme. I suspect that Mat/Min and Rand/Moiraine will wind up in Falme. I also noticed a possible reference to book 3 in the preview for episode 5.
I'd like to note that everyone staying on this series is affording it something it has yet to earn, respect. There are far too many worthy series to watch to suffer through a season where we know there will be no pay offs. Lan is a crybaby, Moiraine is no longer manipulative and cunning (though the world acts as though she is when any of us in this fantasy setting would find is quite the opposite), not to mention three episodes that go nowhere outside of Nynaeves' Ascendance. And then she receives the shawl in a scene not shown and resolved as if she didn't just have the most traumatic experience of her life. The other Warders have more screen time than Mat because they rushed this. I bet more care was spent on catering than the script. And all the fanbase can do is cope. You give this the time of day when most fans have walked off. They better be outsourcing some views soon. I see more and more people waving this show away and good riddance!
“I want to be a critic”. 😂
You’re trying too hard
@@colbybrand5326 He's not wrong and you didn't counter anything he said.
7/10 is painfully average for such a promising IP and universe
7 is on the "good" side. Average would have been 5/10. But I understand the sentiment.
While this ad plays I’ll answer the question that the topic of this video asks… yes. It’s hella good. Wayyyyy better than season 1. Still far from where I’d like it but when you got my gf calling Logain the false dragon and saying “He’s the dragon, b***h!” That’s a win for me! As a book reader seeing her fall in love with the world is what it’s all about honestly. 😅
I really believe we have to look at this season as E1-4 is part 1, E5-8 is part 2. Part 2 I am expecting a lot more of Perrin and Mat, Egwene's plotline is about to explode, Nynaeve will take more of a backseat supporting role, It seems to be shaping up as Rand and Morraine v Lanfear in Carhien. Totally agree about Lan, looks to be an unnecessarily messy to me, bit like make work for Daniel.
I don't entirely understand straying from source material when the source material is considered the greatest fantasy epic of all time. Don't @ me, it is. 😝
Season 2 sucks less than Season 1. If that's a compliment, then so be it. I'm still begrudgingly watching, but I also started reading the book series again in protests.
I dreamt that season 2 was so well received that Amazon decided to allow 11 1.5 hr episodes for season 3
Don't know if we need that many extra hours about elaida's motivations or the meditations of Alanna's warders ...
No way, too long let the audience drag. We should want quality, not quantity. Big moments, not long descriptions.
canceled after season 3 is more likely. Rafe tore up the books, set it on fire, and told the rest of us to warm our hands. No, hell no!
I feel for all you book readers that are not getting what you hoped for. For me as a non book reader I have become more invested in the characters and story with S2. That’s thanks to channels like yours that give me background on who these characters are in the books and their true motivations. Im looking for good tv and a story that keeps me engaged. I stopped watching the TH-camrs that just post rants about how they are butchering the source material. I just want the book spoiler’s for context so I can understand what this world is about. Don’t care what’s being changed just make a quality show with good acting. I will keep watching. Thanks for your channel and content. Your the reason I am watching the show.
Glad you’re enjoying!
You see, while I'm glad that non-book readers are enjoying this show, I'm saddened that the hype seems to mostly come from _outside_ the show, from the book community providing context (that may or may not even end up being relevant to the show).
GoT didn't need hand-holding. On the contrary, I think most book readers had a blast sadistically _withholding_ context and enjoying the shock on the face of non book readers. I know _I_ did.
As a non-bookreader, it has been great tv...so far! But as we all know, it's about sticking the landing. Season 1 was shaky, and the ending episode even shakier🎡🎡🎡⌚️⌚️⌚️
Agreed. Need more Mat & Perrin. I like Lan and his actor... but not his plotline so far this season. Episode 4, thought his part could have been shortened significantly there could have been more of the others... I've not like him & Moiraine this season... and last episode would have been much better without all Lan/Alanna/Warder stuff... it was too long and dragging at that part.
As a reader who’s finished the books, I like S2 just as I liked S1 (minus EP 8.) I just need MORE. Eight episodes per season sucks.
I'm holding off any form of criticism of changes until I see how they pay off in the end. I'm enjoying it as a standalone show (avid book fan). Season 1 suffered from bad production quality, COVID restrictions, and Barney Harris leaving at the worst possible time (and very poor recovery). The only thing I don't like about Season 2 so far is Lan.
Highlight: Liandrin. She was such a mid character in the books, but holy shit, Kate Fleetwood is KILLING IT on the show as a love-to-hate-her villain. The Lanfear arc is great. Ishamael being a cold, calculating "am I *truly* evil?" villain is a great change to allow some of the other Forsaken to be a bit more unhinged. I can't wait to see my girl Aviendha, though
Agreed on almost all points
Not sure if I'm a fan of Liandrin having much of a plotline at all to be honest. 🤷
I'm enjoying this season more than last season. And I totally agree with you about Lan... I find his plot line completely uninteresting and I'm not sure why they are compelled to spend more time on Lan than Perrin and Matt
I love the books and I love the series. To finally see it on screen to me is just a joy.
And after 2020 and Covid taking away entertainment for everyone on the planet... it gave me a different point of view. I no longer critique as harshly, now I just sit back and appreciate and enjoy much more.
And I am definitely enjoying this era of WOT!!!
Carai an Caldazar!
I am totally with you on all points. It's so much less stressful to just sit back and let yourself be entertained.
Agreed, life just feels better when I focus on the things I enjoy rather than things I dislike. WoT has been my favourite book series since I picked it up in '99 and it feels wonderful to see the characters on TV. Being able to theorize once again because the show does deviate is just a gift.
@@Hangry_Sasquatchsomeone doesn’t agree with your opinion so you call them a liar. Way to adult…
The show just isn’t very good. The characters are nothing like the books and the show isn’t even internally consistent and is riddled with plot holes. Barely anything has actually happened in the show and we’re half way into the season. They keep wasting time on irrelevant plot lines and it’s flat out disgraceful and insulting to the books that the show defenders claim they had to change from the books to fit things in when they’ve tossed the books out the window and are adding in their own nonsense. Even considered as it’s own thing the show is just dreadfully boring.
Overall, I like S2 better so far but it's not a blowout by any means. I liked S1 quite a lot too, especially considering the kick in the teeth it had to surmount.
Also, S1 E4 is STILL my favorite episode. I just really enjoyed the Lanaeve performances in S1 and the ending of E4 was astonishing.
This season, Kate (Liandrin) is absolutely stealing it for me, even after an excellent S1 (and Zoe still being excellent).
The actors in both seasons have been remarkably good by any standard. Only Foundation comes close in acting (and writing/adaptation).
Also, the cold opens in S1 were better! Logain, Dragonmount,... And I miss the S1 opening titles!
I predict at least seven more instances of seeing someone from a frontal view perspective get stabbed and run through with a blade from behind, several more instances of Nynaeve fake-out deaths, several more three way jokes, several more times that Nynaeve explodes with Saidar… it seems that there are a few tricks the show keeps using too often.
I agree with a lot of what Nae'blis said in this review. At the same time as I'm watching the show, as a book reader, I'm constantly trying to explain why this decision or that was made. Maybe the 2nd half of the season will clean things up but right now the overall story feels aimless.
I’ve been watching you for sometime and listen to you asking people to subscribe thinking all this time I was haha. Well Inal now.
It got me rereading The Wild Hunt and it's a strange experience/feeling. I can see the changes they made but my brain can't process them as ANYTHING I already know. It's the same in theory but somehow I have no idea what is going to happen and who is going to do what and when. It's kind of a cool experience, even IF it isn't the same as the books. I like it more than season one, although there are a few areas where I wonder where the hell they could possibly be going with it. It's going in it's own direction, and I don't hate it, but I don't LOVE it, just like it, and you're right when you said it's a new interpretation.
Lan’s story is lacking it is probably hard as he doesn’t have POV chapters in most of the early books other than in New Spring but I still feel like I got a good idea of his character through the eyes of others and it really isn’t coming through in this season. Also Perrin’s character seems off at this point in the story. I saw him as more conscious of his actions and gentle in the early part of the story.
Mat’s character seems to be there but need to see more, I hope they have him be the hero to his friends that he is in the books and hopefully with all the sass
Liking most of the white tower plots this season. And honestly I’m connecting more to Rand’s character in show this season. Moraine and Lan plot not a fan of, I enjoyed their relationship in the books and that was one thing season 1 I think did better. Overall I am still enjoying the show.
I really thought Rafe said Season 1 was the way it was so Season 2 and beyond could be closer to the Books. I definitely do not see that at all. It’s hard to judge at this point if it’s good or not because we simply don’t know where the story is going or where it should be, which we might be able to do if it adhered more closely to the books. That said, 8 episodes are just too damn short to do any justice to the story told in the books, much less a story that is doing it’s own thing while cramming stuff in from Books 2, 3 and 4 (at least I think it’s pulling stuff from 3 books and it’s own unique storylines…10 episodes would be the absolute minimum number of 50 minute episodes per season. As it is, it seems sooo much is crammed in and yet almost like nothing is happening because every storyline gets so little time to develop, especially going it’s own direction throwing so many scenes in that didn’t happen and not sticking to the books! Robert Jordan was a best selling author for a reason, and it irks me when tv writers apparently think they can do better? Adapt the story of RJ’s for television, but don’t freaking destroy it for your own story which so far has been absolutely NOT compelling and underwhelming in the extreme. If you want to avoid boring things, Moraine being without her channeling powers has been abysmal. Nyneave not being able to channel unles she’s angry is annoying since she’s actually always pissed at something (don’t get me wrong, the actress is fantastic but why not change the things that are boring to watch if they are going to butcher the story? Hurry the freak up and have Nymaeve heal Loagain and then Moiraine, and for gods sake show Rand learning some powers like traveling so they can freaking get places since they aren’t bothering with any character development going places the slow old fashioned way. Show why Rand and Nyneave are so powerful. We’ve barely seen the Seanchan - their invasion has been one group of a few buildings and not much else. I get zero sense of a threat or any sort of sizable army or invasion from them. And where’s the other Frosaken? They should,do have introduced a couple or even a few females to throw the obvious fact that it’s Selene off- have 2 or 3 female forsaken then it might have been surprising to non-bookies when she turned out to be one. Pulling the forsaken from the land of dreams with the Seanchan collar on was one of my favorites as was them finding stuff in museums they could use and I’m so afraid they aren’t going to do that. And even the incidental stuff is just being totally ignored; seeing giant statues and ruins of buildings and structures was something I LOVED in the books; you were constantly reminded that this worked had been something far. Ore advanced before and was destroyed by the dark one and his forsaken underlings; here they just have no presence, no impact even when on screen.; As for the ruins and remnants of the age of legends (like the statues, and bridges and giants unknown ruins of devices? Buildings? we’ve had NONE of that this season! Trollocs and Forsaken? One brief scene that went nowhere. I swear when Rand finds out this world is our world in the books it rocked me; but they sort of already did this last season in the usual rushed, less interesting way and I really HATE sounding like a book snob who just disses the tv series but it really is just failing to be anything like the story that millions feel in love with. They aren’t telling Robert Jordan;s Heeel of Time, or if they are they are completely NOT managing to make any of the threats on every side feel tangible or in the back of our minds growing ever more urgent..the blight has been forgotten, the Seanchan just feel like one small group and not the invasion force they are supposed to be, Trollocs snd Fades are barely mentioned and even barely appeared and seem not too scary and Forsaken are should already have a few more so we know the ultimate big bad the Dark One is terrifying business but we’ve just been told the dude we see isn’t him but his main lieutenant… who just seems like maybe he was misunderstood deltoid and not such a bad guy? SHOW US more, tell us less, and focus on INTERETSING STUFF like the book stories. Because your made up alternative scenes or “this happened even tho is wasnt in the book” just are NOT anywhere near as clever or as interesting or intriguing or thought provoking as Robert Jordan’s. He managed to convey so much more and kept in mind showing us.i want to love this series, I want to be thrilled every time I watch it, and yes, the quality has gone up, but it’s just not that interetsing. And certainly Robert Jordan’s epic adapter for a different medium. It’s somebody else who is telling some story because I don’t really think they read the same books or they’d be working a helluva lot harder to preserve those wonderful scenes and stories than this “dull alternative turn of the wheel” that we;re getting here.
And all this was said because I LOVE this series and want to see THIS SERIES not someone’s else’s story with characters named the same.
If they really mess up the story and not show Matt dueling it out with Galad and Gwayn with the quarter staff scene in the tower, at least I enjoyed it again recently listening to audio books and Matt's gaining the Band of the Red Hand after being in the Aiel Waste. Matt's quarter staff duel was one of the best scenes in the books. Only hoping they show Matt going through the doors in Tear and in Ruideahn (bad spelling) for his answers and gifts that propel his plot line and character throughout the whole story.
From the beginning I regarded the show as a loose reinterpretation inspired by Jordan's books rather then an adaptation and as such I've enjoyed every minute of it. S2 is a major step up in terms of... well, almost everything, but for casting and acting, which have been spot on from the start. My biggest issue is how short the episodes and the seasons are. Every way I try to boil WoT down to its essence and imagine this within the scope of 8 one-hour-long episodes, I come short. I loved the darkfriend social, the marketplace with the lionfish, the time with Alanna's family, Errol and Moiraine's sister - the source material has literally hundreds of pages with vivid descriptions of locations, people and life in the Randlands. Concentrating only on action and the main cast wouldn't give us the feeling of a vast, culturally complex and believable lived-in world. But I agree that due to budgetary concerns we (book fans) aren't getting a compelling story - it's more like we're being shown glimpses of a story of which much is hidden, missing or taking place offscreen. Still, to be able to see the White Tower, Hopper, the great performances, locations and costumes on screen! Lets be honest, it's a privilege. And I hold in high regard that the show makers included such a versatile cast in terms of age and ethnicity. Mature men and women playing attractive and powerful characters, love it! I believe it's the most diverse show out there. 9/10 so far for me. With 1,5 hours per episode it would've been perfect.
Thank you Nae Bliss. I enjoy the insights & perceptions you bring to WoT
I pretty much find myself agreeing with everything you have said. I’m not enjoying the Lan plot line. Outside of the Seanchan, Perrin has been pretty boring. Mat has nothing to do. But on the other side I’m enjoying Liandrin and Rand immensely. The white tower scenes for the most part have been interesting. But it’s seems slow. I think it’s a good show but not great. And I so wanted a great show to match the greatest of the books. Season one 7.5, Season two 7.5
third episode a 7/10 ??? that was easily a 8.5 for me...
Amazon got the rights, wanted their own Game of Thrones, but didn't want to put the money and time into making good.
Please stop with the cop out of book readers vs non book readers. The show is based on the books and should be judged that way. It isn't a brand new property. The director of the Godfather movie didn't focus most of the time on Fredo and then say "well the movie is really about bringing in non book readers."
Not interested in good acting if the story isn't up to the quality of the acting. Who is this story about? In the books the protagonist is Rand. In the show is it Lan, Moiraine, Nynaeve? We don't really know. Story is all over the place with bit characters, and supporting characters being put center stage since episode 1, and the 3 characters who are Ta'veren are more or less the supporting characters.
On the show what was Perrins motivation for going after the Horn? Who knows? He just went. Why is he even on the show at this point? If he wasn't there would we have missed anything? In the books all 3 boys went with the Shinaran's to get the dagger for Mat. That was their motivation. The horn was secondary for the 3 of them. Instead they split up the 3 main characters on a show that is an hour long and have spent most of the time with storylines for secondary characters. Have they explained the motivation for the "bad guys" yet? Talk about one dimensional!
There is so much wrong with the show and so many opportunities missed. Everything seems rushed and when small steps would be best to move the story along they make giant leaps and vice versa. I can honestly say up to this point I don't care about any of the characters, the way they have been written none of them, including Rand would be missed if they never appeared again.
I will say that this seems to be another in a long line of book adaptations were the show runners loved the books but convinced themselves that they could make it better and did the complete opposite. The heavy lifting was already done by Robert Jordan, they didn't need to try and reinvent the Wheel of Time.
If you like the show, great I hope you continue to enjoy it. I have watched it as well and will continue to watch it hoping that somehow it gets better, but I don't have a great deal of hope. 3/10
I love the books and Matt is personally my favorite character with that said I really hate what they have done with his character he is so much more dynamic. I do love most of what has gone on with Nymeave. The overall show is growing on me but I wish they would have stayed a little closer to the source material. Thanks for your videos and personal insight. Also I want much more of the wolf dream
I agree with you about Mat but think back......was he your favorite character before Falme? He is absolutely my favorite character in the books but it really did not take off until he had a certain quarterstaff fight
I totally agree with your comment about Matt. It’s also my favourite character.
@@mikewinterif what the writers have said is true, and they are adapting TGH and TDR in S2, and S3 will be more TSR, when exactly does Mat get his quarterstaff fight with Galad and Gawyn in the Warder training yard?
Are they dragging Mat back to the Tower, again? He's already been there, and the beat they invented for him (i.e. Liandrin's prisoner) is one of the weakest in the show. Now that he has left the Tower, the time to hold his famous staff fight has surely passed.
After Falme, and since the entire Stone of Tear arc from TDR is likely reduced or cut, Mat probably needs to be accompanying Rand into the Waste in S3, headed to Rhuidean (assuming that isn't cut or massively changed as well). There's no time to spare to have him kicking around in Tar Valon yet again.
@@mikewinter yes, Mat was quite whiny and irritating in the first two books...even now when I reread he annoys me, even though he is one of my two favourite characters! So it seems reasonable that he will need some space to develop over the rest of S2, hopefully to step up as the awesome character he is. I have to say the story so far has focused on him being a terrible gambler. The books only mention him gambling once in Fal Dara, before making it a major part of his arc in book 3. So I think the show is setting this up really well.
@ThumbMerrilin That is devastating if true. Easily one of the most iconic scenes of any character in the entire series and a turning point for Mat as a character. It is such an easily adapted part of the book, as well; how could they even consider not using it?
I keep reading comments that make me go back and forth between wanting to give the show another go and just burying the memory of it lol.
I like the show and crave for more. Yes, I do agree with a few characters that should have more parts but I can understand it's hard to wrap and show everything
I'm enjoying the second season and like it more than the first season, but I don't think of the show as an adaptation of the books. Rather I think of the show as being inspired by Wheel of Time. I think an adaptation should at least keep the main story in tact and I don't feel the show is doing that.
I wrote it off in season 1. Came back for season 2.
The best way to explain it is an analogy. If you have a jug of sour milk in the refrigerator, just throw it away. Dont put it back in the fridge and try it again a week later to see if its suddenly not sour. It wont be. It'll be even worse. That's season 2.
I've had to roll my eyes a few times but once I just let myself enjoy the ride I had a much better experience
"Is it any good?" - No.
Watched the first season then read the books (audio books). The second season 3rd episode got me at the end. Never gonna be exactly like the books because the actors would be in their 60’s at the end of the series lol. So far so good
Honestly I gave up on the Wheel of Time when it first released as a book series. My favorite character Mat ended up under a wall, and I waited a whole year or more for the next book, only for him not to appear. Robert Jordan’s world building was amazing, but it’s clear on re-reads he often didn’t quite know where he was going, he added on some things, retrofitted others, and expanded plot lines that kind of went nowhere and had other plot lines that dragged on in the same rut for ages. Having revisited the series after its completion, I do enjoy it, but I’m glad that we’re not adapting the book scene for scene or even beat for beat.
Liandrin is a delight on screen, and she was a mediocre character at best in the books. Elayne has had more character traits from later on pulled in earlier and is fresh and interesting on screen vs Egwene who is giving great Hermione vibes. Rand’s story has been quite altered and people are super eager for some God Mode to be activated, but Jordan’s whole point of writing the Wheel of Time (from interviews in the audiobooks) is that the typical Hero’s journey is a little too straightforward and clean cut, and the reality would be hilariously different. His role in the season finale has already been forshadowed and should hopefully be epic. Perrin’s team up with Elyas and wolf brother training and mind-games with Ishamael are awesome, and the wolf language is corny and a nice entry into more surreal stuff to come.
Mat and Min’s pairing is great on screen and very interesting, banter is solid, and getting the tone of each character is spot on, and Min’s Darkfriend temptation is a fascinating choice. I couldn’t stand early book series Nynaeve although she ends up close to the top, and Zoe is playing her so complexly and conflicted, and now traumatized, her relationship with the Aes Sedai is going to be great.
Pike’s stilled/shielded Moiraine is great and delivering nuance and cold-hearted ruthlessness we know she’s capable of. The scenes where she played Domon and Logain and got pinned by her sister are amazing, and the scenes where she’s pushing Lan away are intentionally painful to watch.
So far, the one really weak storyline is the Lan and the Warders. Lan does a lot of stuff ‘off screen’ in the books so it’s great to give him more time, I just don’t like the Lan I’m meeting on screen. I honestly think they just don’t have anyone on staff in the writer’s room who can process emotions the way I imagine someone like al’Lan Mandragoran, last King of Malkier would. He’s too uncentered and uncertain, when we know full well the reaction he had for having his bond passed on in the books. Barely suppressed incandescent rage. Maybe they’re trying to soften it, or they’re going to shift things around but right now it’s just not landing.
Plot wise it’s a 7, character-wise it’s an 8 (minus Lan), adaptation-wise it’s definitely WoT, a bit rocky still this season, but getting stronger, so a 7.
I’ve read the books some time ago, so my memory isn’t as fresh as it is for those who have re-read them - but for what it’s worth, I think it is a very good adaptation thus far. Like with lord of the rings on the movie screen, there is just too much material to do all of it justice, so some adaptation and combining of characters is necessary. Though I do also think they could have done with at least 10 episodes per season to give a bit more space to world building.
I fully agree, every point. You have consistently been an excellent reviewer of both the source material and adaptation!
I totally agree that Perrin and Mats arc are kinda lacking. And Lan's is absolutely lacking.
Hopefully they all get stepped up to the same level m as some of the others. And omg I never thought I'd be rooting for Liandrin, ever.
Great video, as usual 😊
Perrin takes so long to find who he is in the books that half the "slog" is blamed on his plot line, but by the end he is such a force that I will wait patiently; he always says he is slow to get things, and proves it in the narrative, but I feel the show might give him some moments to shine soon
Thats because they aren't the main characters in this show. The 3 boys have been pushed aside to make room for all the strong female representation.
@alcovitch I would say the "strong female characters" have about az much page time as Perrin, Mat and Rand. The series isn't about just the three boys. Or have you not actually read the last book?
@@tabithachisholm1744 lmao "the last book". Of 14 books. Hardly selling your point. Yes, i read them all. The 3 boys are the main characters, even if some of the women have pov chapters.
The show focuses almost all of its time on the women characters, or have you not watched the show?
@alcovitch if you've read it, you may have missed the point. Spollers for AMOL.
"Here is your flaw, Shaitan, Lord of the Dark, Lord of Envy, Lord of Nothing, here is why you fail. It was not about me. It’s never been about me.”
It was about a woman, torn and beaten down, cast from her throne and made a puppet. A woman who had crawled when she had to. That woman still fought.
It was about a man that love repeatedly forsook. A man who found relevance in a world that others would have let pass them by. A man who remembered stories and who took fool boys under his wing when the smarter move would have been to keep on walking. That man still fought.
It was about a woman with a secret, a hope for the future. A woman who had hunted the truth before others could. A woman who had given her live, then had it returned. That woman still fought.
It was about a man whose family was taken from him, but who stood tall in his sorrow and protected those he could.
It was about a woman who refused to believe that she could not help, could not heal those who had been harmed.
It was about a hero who insisted with every breath that he was anything but a hero.
It was about a woman who would not bend her back while she was beaten, and who shown with a light for all who watched, including Rand.
It was about them all."
~Rand al Thor
Robert Jordan, A
love your work
Not sure they do a good job of developing the strength of power....Egwene and Elayne have been in tower 5 months and they show no indications of strength or development....maybe some of those one on one interactions could have started showing them tossing a power wrought ball of light between each other and then developed into 2,3,4 different color/sizes being juggled between them to show their development. These two will become two of the strongest channelers in the tower and all we can see of that is....words about being 10x less than Nyn