Thanks for the video. Great info. Wish I found it before we tried to split mics at our church. Was great for a few weeks, then 1 week wicked ground loops on one of the mics. Now just taking an aux out from the booth until we can afford a proper splitter.
first of all thanks for that thoughtful content now im wondering two things 1- if i plug a microphone the same way you did but instead in the two channels of my mic preamp so as one end goes on ch1 and he other on ch2 is the possibility of ground loop still present ?? 2- if each devices (racks and console), small venue situation, are pluged in the same ac outlet with a trailing socket again, is the groud loop efeect still possible ??
There should be no ground loops present for either of the setups (#1, #2) you referenced. Ground loops occur due to different grounding paths. For question #1, the grounding paths would be on the same device. For question #2, as long as the equipment is plugged into the same power outlet (both outlets are getting power from the same location), there should be no ground loop.
Thanks for the video. However: Where should the phantom power come from? I suppose from the monitor-desk, as it's nearer to the input source, right? Or how do you deal with that?
In most setups, it's common practice for phantom power to originate from the monitor console. It doesn't matter where the phantom power originates from, as long as phantom is active. However, if using an isolated splitter, phantom power will need to be "on" with both consoles.
If we will engage the phantom power it will also send to the input of the other console.. does the console can handle the 48v? Do the phantom power would not cause damage to the other mixer ?
I used to do this with a band when i used to mix both Foh an Monitors on an analog console. One of the inputs was for foh vocals and the other monitor vocals. I could then eq and add efx to my foh voc chann and the monitor voc chann I could do any diff eq I needed to with out offsetting my foh voc chann. I would plug the splitter cable into two channs like 1/2 and the female end conn to the snake input. It worked great.
Thank you for this demonstration. When I tried this, my issue must of been the power. One mixer was inside the arena and one was outside in a truck. There was no real way to use the same power for both mixers.
I understand about keeping FOH and MON consoles on the same circuit. What about amp racks? Some of our larger shows we use 3 amp racks. SL, SR and Monitor. We try to keep each rack on different circuits. Aren't we risking ground loop issues using multiple circuits? Also, when I am on stage playing my bass, there are times I will get zapped or 60hz buzz when I touch the strings on my bass while my mouth touches the mic. That's always fun.
Good question on the amp racks. Tracking down ground loops can take a while; there can be a lot of variables. Having each amp rack on its own circuit is the correct way for a setup. Some times, ground loops can occur when a signal cable (XLR) is connected between amp racks that are on separate circuits (i.e. FOH tops signal: SL rack connected to SR). However, if the FOH tops signal is split to SL and SR from the snake head return, this most always does not cause ground loop issues. Your "zapped" issue and 60hz buzz sounds like it could be due to an electrical problem! There may be a ground-short someplace in the electrical connections; basically, a small amount of electricity has found its way into the signal paths. Does this happen to anyone else in the band? If this happens all the time no matter where you perform, this usually points to a problem with some piece of gear/instrument/bad-cable that you (or the band) is using. Are you using balanced cables for all of the connections? If you are in the USA, all electrical equipment should have the 3-prong plug; no 3 to 2 prong adapters should be used. You may need to test all your gear and cables for proper polarity and to ensure no shorts. If the "zap" only happens at one or two gig locations, there is probably an electrical problem at those locations. This may warrant an electrician to verify all the circuits are wired/grounded correctly (no boot-leg or reverse boot-leg grounds). Also, you could have a "bad" cable (or two) in your bands gear and the cables get used sometimes... which would give you inconsistent incidents of it occurring.
@@stageleftaudio Regarding getting zapped. I'm in Pennsylvania. I use a Line 6 wireless unit. So, no cable from bass to pedalboard. We played at a venue two weeks ago and that's where I got zapped. We will be there again in the fall. I'll check exactly what I'm doing when it happens. In this case, FOH console and amp rack were on different circuits, which should not matter to the microphone that's connected to the snake. On second thought, the amp rack gets its signal from the returns on the snake. So the snake is connected to the console and amp rack which are on different circuits. Therefore, my microphone is exposed to two different circuits. Playing at clubs is always interesting regarding quality electricity.
Hi. I tried this and it works great with a dynamic mic but didn’t work with a phantom power mic. Only one side got the signal even though phantom power was provided by both mixers. Any idea why this could happen?
Sounds interesting. For your splitter cable, are you using an actual splitter cable or is it something like an "insert" cable? Can you post what consoles and condensor mic you are using for your setup?
@@stageleftaudio Hi and thanks for your reply. For the cable, it's simply advertised as a Y-cable, which I assume is a splitter cable, and indeed it works as such on the dynamics mics with no problem. The set up is just for local gigs, so the consoles are a Yamaha MG16XU for the FOH, and my console at the drum set is a small Mackie ONYX 8 that I use to monitor. The idea is to have the Kick and the OH coming back to me too from the Y-cables at the mic. Works perfectly on the kick and any other dynamic mic, but as soon as I use a static such as an OH, only one side of the Y-cable get's the signal... Can't find any reason why this should be the case. I've tried all combinations of 48v on and off. Still doesn't work...
Thanks for providing the gear you are using. This is an interesting situation. The consoles you are using should have no issues with the existence of phantom power on a cable. Only one console needs to provide the phantom power for a setup. The condenser mic will not care where the phantom power comes from (Yamaha / Mackie), just as long as there is phantom power on the cable. Question - Does the condenser mic work with both consoles (independently) when using a single XLR cable? i.e. Connect the condenser mic to each console (one at a time) using a single regular XLR cable and test with phantom power. If the condenser mic does work on each console (separately), it's possible the splitter cable you are using is actually an "insert" cable; the internal wiring of an insert cable is different than a splitter cable. Also, if the condenser mic does work with each console (separately), it is possible one of the consoles may not be functioning correctly if phantom power is energized on an XLR splitter, and was not energized by that console. If you haven't already, try using the phantom power from one console (one at a time) and test. It's usually best not to have phantom power running from both consoles at the same time.
@@stageleftaudio Hi and thanks so much for taking the time to answer in such detail. I'm inclined to think that it may be the cable as you suggested. Both consoles work perfectly with the mic individually on a single XLR with phantom power, and I've tried the different combinations of phantom power from one or the other console. I will try to look deeper into exactly what the Y cable is in terms of being a splitter or an insert cable. I'll let you know if I get any further along with this. Again, thank you so much for the time. You've already given me a great pointer as to where to dig deeper.
You are welcome! Thank you for the follow up. Yes, please keep me posted on what you find out. Certainly an interesting issue, but hopefully the solution is a simple one.
There's no issue with having phantom power on one side. As long as the microphone has power; whether it gets power from either console, or (on some mics) gets its power from an internal battery, it will work. For the larger setups that have a dedicated monitor console (and FOH console) It's common for the monitor console to provide all phantom power to any mics that need it.
cool video. I do something for my live rig. im a touring drummer. I have a qsc touch mix 30 in rack. 3 x art s8 splitters. we just hand the foh guy our 32 channel fan.24 dir outs, 8 aux for submits if lacking foh channels. works great and easy setup. 4 strereo in ear mixes and a throne thumper for me
The signal would not change. Each console will receive the same level. In fact, a microphone can be split several times without much impact on level and sound quality. Problems can arise when you connect 2 microphones (using a Y cable) into a single console input. This causes phasing issues and can present a higher ohm level on the input of the console. Avoid connecting 2 mics to a single input.
He did mention it would work but I too was wondering that as well. Not sure about the electrical implications with 48volts passing through the components.
Yes. Phantom will work this way. We recently did a video covering the basics of phantom power across two consoles. th-cam.com/video/-twkQJk-L9Q/w-d-xo.html Phantom power can come from either or both consoles. Phantom powered mics don't care where the phantom power comes from, as long as there is phantom power.
Hi guys!!!! PLEASE DO NOT HATE ME...... I DO NOT HATE YOU.... Butttttttttttttt, ....... I gave you a thumbs down on this one!!! NOT BECAUSE THE INFORMATION you provided was wrong or false!! Matter of Fact, it is "dead on balls" correct, albeit there is one thing you didn't mention, AND I FEEL BEFORE YOU GIVE any more great advice on making something that is considered "A POOR MAN'S" ANYTHING.., do two things for me!! 1.) Not only consider the actual COST of what your suggesting someone build or make, 2.) ACTUALLY GIVE THE APPROXIMATE COST... keeping in mind that "New," or "fledgling" Sound Companies will not yet have the industry contacts with respect to "parts vendors" or perhaps the exact skills to build. For example, that "Y" connector is not exactly "expensive," but nor is it exactly "cheap...!!!" Therefore, not necessarily a "poormans" "fix!" To either purchase or make lets say a very simple setup of 16 channels, by the time the "expense dust" settles, the "new sound company" business owner has just (not knowingly) purchased, or come very, very close to purchasing, W/O ACTUALLY doing it... A "brand new" 50'-75' 16 channel split-snake!!! Of course that IS NOT A WHIRLWIND®️ by any sense of the word, but rather more in the lines of a Seismic Audio®️, or ProCo®️ style, level of professional, but at least better and a jumping off point for at least having that "Split-Snake" in one fell swoop, and not 16 individual splitter cables and a shit-ton of extra XLR Cables!!!! Of course, none of those "extras" are wasteful, and eventually more like, useful or redundant tools of the trade, but the money could have been better spent elsewhere at the time. Look, by the simple fact that you are putting this information out there, I WICKED APPRECIATE YOU DOING THAT... I, perhaps you too, had to learn by going down a much harder road and through to my graduation from "the school of hard knocks!" And I grew up in the industry, with family at almost every level!!!! Some of them pioneering gear, terminology and methodology still being used in the industry as standard today!!! I myself, when I explain items such as you did here, ALWAYS... ALWAYS make sure those who I am imparting the information upon, HAVE ALL the information, all the options in which they can explore, resource availability and cost(s) as associated with such a project!!! Please, please do that in the future if you will, as information, complete information is the key to success and sustainability of this, our beloved industry!!!!! ANYWAY, KEEP ON KEEPING ON BROTHER ENGINEER!!!!!!!!!! PEACE !!!!!!!!!!🤘🏻
No worries. Thanks for your comment! Great suggestions! We try to keep our videos high-level and as agnostic as possible with respect to vendors, suppliers, manufactures, cost, etc... This keeps the focus of the videos on the subject matter, instead of discussions on i.e. pricing (which is very relative even in the US). Our goal, with most all of our videos, is to show the viewers how something is done and, basically, how we conduct the work for more specific subject matters. If the viewers walk a way with a basic understanding of how to do something, it will be up to them to determine how they can make it work for their setup. As I'm sure you are well aware, there can be many ways of doing things using many different products with varying costs! So, to keep the video content on focus and within a reasonable time period, we keep the content somewhat general. Thanks again for your comment and suggestions! I know others reading your comment will take all what you referenced and will put that into the videos they watch!
@@stageleftaudio I appreciate your honesty about the absolute goal of your videos!! Perhaps I did lose sight of that a bit!! And you are absolutely correct about the fact that there is always "more then one way to skin a cat...!!"( lol😁😆) And I guess there are more then enough "how to" videos out there, and to "cloud up the water" further with more of them may just be not needed!! Your videos are always spot on and more importantly, fairly short and sweet... we need more of those types for sure!! Keep them coming brother, keep em' coming!! Thank you for your careful consideration!!
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Thanks for the video. Great info. Wish I found it before we tried to split mics at our church. Was great for a few weeks, then 1 week wicked ground loops on one of the mics. Now just taking an aux out from the booth until we can afford a proper splitter.
Sir i got the answer for what i have asked the question to you, from another video of yours....thank you sir
Great 👍
first of all thanks for that thoughtful content now im wondering two things
1- if i plug a microphone the same way you did but instead in the two channels of my mic preamp so as one end goes on ch1 and he other on ch2 is the possibility of ground loop still present ??
2- if each devices (racks and console), small venue situation, are pluged in the same ac outlet with a trailing socket again, is the groud loop efeect still possible ??
There should be no ground loops present for either of the setups (#1, #2) you referenced. Ground loops occur due to different grounding paths. For question #1, the grounding paths would be on the same device. For question #2, as long as the equipment is plugged into the same power outlet (both outlets are getting power from the same location), there should be no ground loop.
Thanks for the video. However: Where should the phantom power come from? I suppose from the monitor-desk, as it's nearer to the input source, right? Or how do you deal with that?
In most setups, it's common practice for phantom power to originate from the monitor console. It doesn't matter where the phantom power originates from, as long as phantom is active. However, if using an isolated splitter, phantom power will need to be "on" with both consoles.
If we will engage the phantom power it will also send to the input of the other console.. does the console can handle the 48v? Do the phantom power would not cause damage to the other mixer ?
Thank you so much sir for your very very packaged information
You are most welcome
I used to do this with a band when i used to mix both Foh an Monitors on an analog console. One of the inputs was for foh vocals and the other monitor vocals. I could then eq and add efx to my foh voc chann and the monitor voc chann I could do any diff eq I needed to with out offsetting my foh voc chann. I would plug the splitter cable into two channs like 1/2 and the female end conn to the snake input. It worked great.
Nice set up to seperate monitors and front of house
Quick and easy!
Wow thanks for this❤
Thank you for this demonstration. When I tried this, my issue must of been the power. One mixer was inside the arena and one was outside in a truck. There was no real way to use the same power for both mixers.
Thank you for the follow up!
I understand about keeping FOH and MON consoles on the same circuit. What about amp racks? Some of our larger shows we use 3 amp racks. SL, SR and Monitor. We try to keep each rack on different circuits. Aren't we risking ground loop issues using multiple circuits?
Also, when I am on stage playing my bass, there are times I will get zapped or 60hz buzz when I touch the strings on my bass while my mouth touches the mic. That's always fun.
Good question on the amp racks. Tracking down ground loops can take a while; there can be a lot of variables. Having each amp rack on its own circuit is the correct way for a setup. Some times, ground loops can occur when a signal cable (XLR) is connected between amp racks that are on separate circuits (i.e. FOH tops signal: SL rack connected to SR). However, if the FOH tops signal is split to SL and SR from the snake head return, this most always does not cause ground loop issues.
Your "zapped" issue and 60hz buzz sounds like it could be due to an electrical problem! There may be a ground-short someplace in the electrical connections; basically, a small amount of electricity has found its way into the signal paths. Does this happen to anyone else in the band? If this happens all the time no matter where you perform, this usually points to a problem with some piece of gear/instrument/bad-cable that you (or the band) is using. Are you using balanced cables for all of the connections? If you are in the USA, all electrical equipment should have the 3-prong plug; no 3 to 2 prong adapters should be used. You may need to test all your gear and cables for proper polarity and to ensure no shorts. If the "zap" only happens at one or two gig locations, there is probably an electrical problem at those locations. This may warrant an electrician to verify all the circuits are wired/grounded correctly (no boot-leg or reverse boot-leg grounds). Also, you could have a "bad" cable (or two) in your bands gear and the cables get used sometimes... which would give you inconsistent incidents of it occurring.
@@stageleftaudio Regarding getting zapped. I'm in Pennsylvania.
I use a Line 6 wireless unit. So, no cable from bass to pedalboard.
We played at a venue two weeks ago and that's where I got zapped. We will be there again in the fall. I'll check exactly what I'm doing when it happens.
In this case, FOH console and amp rack were on different circuits, which should not matter to the microphone that's connected to the snake.
On second thought, the amp rack gets its signal from the returns on the snake. So the snake is connected to the console and amp rack which are on different circuits. Therefore, my microphone is exposed to two different circuits.
Playing at clubs is always interesting regarding quality electricity.
You da man!! Thank you.
Thank you!
Thanks. Greetings from Philippines
Greetings!
Hi. I tried this and it works great with a dynamic mic but didn’t work with a phantom power mic. Only one side got the signal even though phantom power was provided by both mixers. Any idea why this could happen?
Sounds interesting. For your splitter cable, are you using an actual splitter cable or is it something like an "insert" cable?
Can you post what consoles and condensor mic you are using for your setup?
@@stageleftaudio Hi and thanks for your reply. For the cable, it's simply advertised as a Y-cable, which I assume is a splitter cable, and indeed it works as such on the dynamics mics with no problem. The set up is just for local gigs, so the consoles are a Yamaha MG16XU for the FOH, and my console at the drum set is a small Mackie ONYX 8 that I use to monitor. The idea is to have the Kick and the OH coming back to me too from the Y-cables at the mic. Works perfectly on the kick and any other dynamic mic, but as soon as I use a static such as an OH, only one side of the Y-cable get's the signal... Can't find any reason why this should be the case. I've tried all combinations of 48v on and off. Still doesn't work...
Thanks for providing the gear you are using. This is an interesting situation. The consoles you are using should have no issues with the existence of phantom power on a cable. Only one console needs to provide the phantom power for a setup. The condenser mic will not care where the phantom power comes from (Yamaha / Mackie), just as long as there is phantom power on the cable.
Question - Does the condenser mic work with both consoles (independently) when using a single XLR cable? i.e. Connect the condenser mic to each console (one at a time) using a single regular XLR cable and test with phantom power.
If the condenser mic does work on each console (separately), it's possible the splitter cable you are using is actually an "insert" cable; the internal wiring of an insert cable is different than a splitter cable.
Also, if the condenser mic does work with each console (separately), it is possible one of the consoles may not be functioning correctly if phantom power is energized on an XLR splitter, and was not energized by that console. If you haven't already, try using the phantom power from one console (one at a time) and test. It's usually best not to have phantom power running from both consoles at the same time.
@@stageleftaudio Hi and thanks so much for taking the time to answer in such detail. I'm inclined to think that it may be the cable as you suggested. Both consoles work perfectly with the mic individually on a single XLR with phantom power, and I've tried the different combinations of phantom power from one or the other console. I will try to look deeper into exactly what the Y cable is in terms of being a splitter or an insert cable. I'll let you know if I get any further along with this. Again, thank you so much for the time. You've already given me a great pointer as to where to dig deeper.
You are welcome! Thank you for the follow up. Yes, please keep me posted on what you find out. Certainly an interesting issue, but hopefully the solution is a simple one.
Sir can we use Condensor mic instead of Dynamic mic, the phantom power is doubled 96 volts or remain the same 48 volt to the mic...
Dont run phantompower into a Y cable setup like this. For that you need an isolated splitter with a transformer.
dont touch the phantom power
Could this cause an issue if you need phantom power on one side and not worry about the other side?
There's no issue with having phantom power on one side. As long as the microphone has power; whether it gets power from either console, or (on some mics) gets its power from an internal battery, it will work. For the larger setups that have a dedicated monitor console (and FOH console) It's common for the monitor console to provide all phantom power to any mics that need it.
cool video. I do something for my live rig. im a touring drummer. I have a qsc touch mix 30 in rack. 3 x art s8 splitters. we just hand the foh guy our 32 channel fan.24 dir outs, 8 aux for submits if lacking foh channels. works great and easy setup. 4 strereo in ear mixes and a throne thumper for me
Very nice. Anyone running FOH would be very appreciative getting individual feeds for each input!
Is the signal effectively split in half to each mic pre or is it preserved?
The signal would not change. Each console will receive the same level. In fact, a microphone can be split several times without much impact on level and sound quality.
Problems can arise when you connect 2 microphones (using a Y cable) into a single console input. This causes phasing issues and can present a higher ohm level on the input of the console. Avoid connecting 2 mics to a single input.
Can use phantom power this way?
He did mention it would work but I too was wondering that as well. Not sure about the electrical implications with 48volts passing through the components.
Yes. Phantom will work this way. We recently did a video covering the basics of phantom power across two consoles.
th-cam.com/video/-twkQJk-L9Q/w-d-xo.html
Phantom power can come from either or both consoles. Phantom powered mics don't care where the phantom power comes from, as long as there is phantom power.
Just patch everything into the Monitor desk and use direct outs to send to FOH....
No
Hi guys!!!! PLEASE DO NOT HATE ME...... I DO NOT HATE YOU.... Butttttttttttttt,
....... I gave you a thumbs down on this one!!! NOT BECAUSE THE INFORMATION you provided was wrong or false!! Matter of Fact, it is "dead on balls" correct, albeit there is one thing you didn't mention, AND I FEEL BEFORE YOU GIVE any more great advice on making something that is considered "A POOR MAN'S" ANYTHING.., do two things for me!! 1.) Not only consider the actual COST of what your suggesting someone build or make, 2.) ACTUALLY GIVE THE APPROXIMATE COST... keeping in mind that "New," or "fledgling" Sound Companies will not yet have the industry contacts with respect to "parts vendors" or perhaps the exact skills to build. For example, that "Y" connector is not exactly "expensive," but nor is it exactly "cheap...!!!" Therefore, not necessarily a "poormans" "fix!" To either purchase or make lets say a very simple setup of 16 channels, by the time the "expense dust" settles, the "new sound company" business owner has just (not knowingly) purchased, or come very, very close to purchasing, W/O ACTUALLY doing it... A "brand new" 50'-75' 16 channel split-snake!!! Of course that IS NOT A WHIRLWIND®️ by any sense of the word, but rather more in the lines of a Seismic Audio®️, or ProCo®️ style, level of professional, but at least better and a jumping off point for at least having that "Split-Snake" in one fell swoop, and not 16 individual splitter cables and a shit-ton of extra XLR Cables!!!! Of course, none of those "extras" are wasteful, and eventually more like, useful or redundant tools of the trade, but the money could have been better spent elsewhere at the time. Look, by the simple fact that you are putting this information out there, I WICKED APPRECIATE YOU DOING THAT... I, perhaps you too, had to learn by going down a much harder road and through to my graduation from "the school of hard knocks!" And I grew up in the industry, with family at almost every level!!!! Some of them pioneering gear, terminology and methodology still being used in the industry as standard today!!! I myself, when I explain items such as you did here, ALWAYS... ALWAYS make sure those who I am imparting the information upon, HAVE ALL the information, all the options in which they can explore, resource availability and cost(s) as associated with such a project!!! Please, please do that in the future if you will, as information, complete information is the key to success and sustainability of this, our beloved industry!!!!!
ANYWAY, KEEP ON KEEPING ON BROTHER ENGINEER!!!!!!!!!!
PEACE !!!!!!!!!!🤘🏻
No worries. Thanks for your comment! Great suggestions!
We try to keep our videos high-level and as agnostic as possible with respect to vendors, suppliers, manufactures, cost, etc... This keeps the focus of the videos on the subject matter, instead of discussions on i.e. pricing (which is very relative even in the US). Our goal, with most all of our videos, is to show the viewers how something is done and, basically, how we conduct the work for more specific subject matters. If the viewers walk a way with a basic understanding of how to do something, it will be up to them to determine how they can make it work for their setup. As I'm sure you are well aware, there can be many ways of doing things using many different products with varying costs! So, to keep the video content on focus and within a reasonable time period, we keep the content somewhat general. Thanks again for your comment and suggestions! I know others reading your comment will take all what you referenced and will put that into the videos they watch!
@@stageleftaudio I appreciate your honesty about the absolute goal of your videos!! Perhaps I did lose sight of that a bit!! And you are absolutely correct about the fact that there is always "more then one way to skin a cat...!!"( lol😁😆) And I guess there are more then enough "how to" videos out there, and to "cloud up the water" further with more of them may just be not needed!! Your videos are always spot on and more importantly, fairly short and sweet... we need more of those types for sure!! Keep them coming brother, keep em' coming!! Thank you for your careful consideration!!
If a mic requires phantom power, do you just turn on phantom power on one mixeror both?
Phantom power is only need from one console. It's common practice for the monitor console to provide the phantom power.