the carbon dioxide/global warming focus over traditional environmental preservation is a ploy by megacorporations so they can rape our world to death without the people minding
I'm no body language expert, but if someone is fidgeting after sitting for a long time, or if they're touching their face during a police interview, it's probably because they're being questioned by the police
That's the only body language expertise I'm comfortable with, the captain obvious variety. "I can tell by their pacing that they are in fact wearing shoes" style.
Specifically invoke your right to stay silent and the right to representation. "I want a lawyer" not "I think I want a lawyer" or "Can I talk to my lawyer."
@@Somtaaw7 Munecat lives in the UK where the pigs say this when they arrest you: "You do not have to say anything. But it may harm your defence if you fail to disclose something you later rely on in court."
"Why is this guy so nervous?" - Cops while holding a man against his will in a blank interrogation room and in an uncomfortable chair while they try to put him in jail for his entire life. While they intentionally try to intimidate him. "HE MUST BE LYING!" The Sherlock Holmes of the police department.
You see this a lot when people are nervous and cops say "why would you be nervous we're the police". Like practically majority of the riots that have happened in the US haven't been because of police brutality?
Anyone ever get nervous when walking past police in public? Not done anything wrong, and there's no reason they'd have a problem, just the police are near 😅
@@coolbanana165 well no because there's no reason to be unless you live in a corrupt neighborhood, I walk by rangers and police in my country doing weird stuff not illegal thou, and nothing happens, Americans just have fear of everything tbh
Exactly. Body Language Experts can *always* find something to say anything. So, if they want you to be lying, then you are. If they want you to be telling the truth, then you are. The Depp/Heard trial was an absolute morass of these people pretending like they knew exactly what happened behind closed doors because they did not like Heard's face, and Depp "seemed trustworthy." Drove me crazy. I would watch stuff to see legal analysis, because the case was *really* strange legally, but it turns out that almost all of the lawyers commenting on it were hacks who would do crap like pretend they could read everyone's minds.
@@Caelinus nothing made me angrier than people saying she was lying because she was crying when she was recounting abuse & had been hounded by the entire internet and basically blacklisted from her work for several months at that point. i cry when i stub my toe like if i was her id be hysterical but somehow this is proof of her being a charlatan?
No single behavior is indicative of deception, and anyone who tells you otherwise doesn't know what they're talking about. Body language isn't an exact art, if it can be called that, but absolutely is a real thing. people have communicated non-verbally for the whole of their existence, just like every other animal, so to say it's nonsense makes absolutely no sense at all. However, there are idiots online and myths people fall for.
@@nickydaviesnsdpharms3084 There is no science to how people react to situations. Everyone reacts the same. There is no "right" was to mourn for example. Yet if a parent is holding their own when a child goes missing, must mean they harmed their kid, for example. We aren't saying nonverbal communication doesn't exist. Of course it does. They are saying reading it as a science to prove whether or not someone is lying is akin to using a lie detector test. I mean all that does is look at your heart rate and pulse and decide if you're lying. So if you wouldn't trust a lie detector then you prob shouldn't trust a body language expert. There are many studies proving body language reading is not accurate. Police use body language as an excuse to be racist and shoot black people. So no body language reading should not be promoted or supported. However, there are idiots online and myths people fall for.
When I was a kid I went to see a storyteller perform. He told us this riddle about a man who suspected his neighbor of stealing something. The man watched his neighbor all day and the neighbor walked suspiciously, talked suspiciously, moved suspiciously, and even ate his dinner suspiciously. However, the next day, the man found the item that was “stolen” sitting right where he’d left it two days earlier-it had never been stolen, he’d just misplaced it. The question was, if the neighbor hadn’t done anything wrong, why had he acted and moved so suspiciously for the whole day? The answer was that the neighbor acted suspiciously because the man was suspicious of him. The neighbor hadn’t been moving, walking, talking, or eating suspiciously. He had been behaving normally and the man interpreted it as suspicious because it confirmed what he already suspected. Idk I just think that’s relevant!
100% this. If you've ever spent any time in the "true crime" community (actually just drama and misinformation), then you will have experienced this behavior from "creators" quite often. Innocent people are regularly demonized and harassed in that space.
funny anecdote: im autistic, and when i was in highschool, i realized that people believed me more often when i lied than when i told the truth, so i started using the same kind of acting techniques to tell the truth, ergo faking the facial expressions that other people seemed to expect for a given situation. it actually worked. and with that newfound power i became an amazing liar because i basically acted the same way when lying or when telling the truth. (i kept winning at werwolf which is kinda like town of salem)
that only lasted for a little while because i became struck with ME/CFS and the 24/7 brainfog means i can't keep two versions of a story in my head anymore simultaneously, i don't play werwolf anymore, but it was a fun few years
I've been accused of lying to my school psychologist about why I didn't show up to one of the gifted kids meetings they made us do in our school because I was fidgeting and didn't look her in the eye while talking. I'm autistic. Nobody ever bothered to test me because of my good grades and I hit severe burnout in my first semester of college. Had to drop out. I was punished multiple times by that lady and many others for just being who I am.
Me too! My eyes moved around the room when I was put in uncomfortable situations, had to write that teacher a 100 word letter… about my eyes moving, no one taught me eye movement was considered eye rolling to neurotypicals . And then I started being accused and laughed at by medical professionals for “drug seeking behaviours” (I really just asked for help in a blunt way and they made so many assumptions which scares people from trying to get help again😢)
Bro same! I'm autistic and was never tested until I had already burnt out in highschool because I was "gifted". When I'm stressed I look at the floor and shut up and I barely have control over it. It's gotten me in trouble with adults before because they assume I'm ignoring them or being uncooperative, even after my diagnosis. I had a teacher threaten to "take the next step" whatever the hell that meant once when I was having a breakdown at a school audition because she wanted to go home and wasn't allowed to leave until all the students were gone (even though there were several other students and a handful of other staff left and I was in the process of calming down and she made it worse). Before that she said that if I didn't look her in the eyes she'd leave and not come back. She'll usually be nice but has no empathy for any of her students when they actually need help. My friend, sibling, and I lost all remaining respect for her that day. This wasn't the first time she'd treated me horribly for having a breakdown (the previous year she threatened to kick me out of the opening scene if I didn't get on stage by the time they started even though we'd learned that scene and had done it several times so missing one run through wouldn't change anything), but this was the first time she'd threatened to (assumedly) call the cops or something. As if that would call anyone down. This was before I was diagnosed with autism, but after I got a 504 and IEP for my severe anxiety and depression. So it's not like she didn't know I had mental troubles and wasn't just doing this to be a piece of shit to her. Sorry for the rant. I don't think I'll ever be able to forget that interaction.
You know, it’s funny that in 4 years of university for psychology and criminology, we never learned of this ‘body language’ science as a viable option. It more often came up in wrongful conviction cases.
Same! Only i was doing psychology, no criminology. Maybe the body language classes are offered at a super special university that no body has heard of and is invite only? 🤔🤷♀️ Lol 😆
House full of body language experts, but one is secretly just some guy. They have to body language out who the faker is but plot twist they are all fakers because they are body language experts
If I was famous and found a video about me from a body language expert, I'd pay another body language expert to make a video going over that expert's body language. Then I'd pay another one to go over the previous one. I'd do this until I have a full circle of body language experts going over each other's body language and see what kind of chaos it causes.
I’ve never seen a body language expert in real life. I think it’s just weird dudes online with opinions that need excuses to justify hypothetical evidence
@@bourdeaux35 I've had a good amount of people irl say they are body language experts. Of course they're just people who think they have a super power and are running on some god complex. SMh it's such a trap for overthinking normal actions. Like my feet aren't turned away from you because I don't want to talk to you, I'm just more comfortable positioning myself this way. If my whole body is turned away from you then yeah... that's obvious.
Makes me think about how all the “signs” that someone is lying are just things people do when anyone is afraid that they wouldn’t be believed, regardless of whether they’re telling the truth or not
this is exactly it. i've been accused of lying plenty of times when i was just nervous or upset or desperately trying to convince someone that i actually WAS telling the truth. funny thing is, these same people can't tell when i'm actually lying because i know how to disguise my body language. that's something they don't really take into account. a good liar isn't going to look nervous. someone just nervous and telling the truth IS going to look nervous.
This has happened to me and it's infuriating. Walked into the kitchen, asked if my roommates wanted some of my food. They all start laughing at me. I'm like ok, weird. Go to my room, then roommates come in one by one telling me what a terrible person I am that I told some boys my best friend had sex with her ex. So, I get really upset and say that's nonesense and they are saying that it's true because I got angry and I wouldn't get angry if I was telling the truth. Later, my best friend came in and I asked her "do you really believe I said that? I don't even know these boys. When would I have even done that?" She believed me then
they're always like "this person being recorded and in a public speaking situation seems nervous. the only reason i can think of for this is that they are LYING"
That was literally part of the sandy hook conspiracy. People were actually finding footage of the parents of murdered children and going "see they aren't crying at this exact moment, they're lying!"
I’ve been to memorial services. There’s basically no way to predict if/when someone totally breaks down. While giving the eulogy? During a song? While everyone is walking out? They’ll be totally stoic then BAM waterworks. Close family may make it through the whole thing, random relatives might fall apart. No way of knowing. Totally unfair to judge them off it.
I remember when studying psychology in first year a student asked one of the professors how to tell if someone was lying and they responded "The best way is to find out whether the thing they said is true or not"
The same for identifying psychopaths; through their proven actions or lies. I don't know what is unclear about the fact that they are excellent manipulators. People want a checklist of red flags, to spot them during the first encounter.
There's many methods, my friend had Logic as a discipline on psychology course, it really helped her find out her husband was gaslighting her - by simply following his false conjectures by drawing a logical diagram, where thing A didn't necessarily imply B. Then there's when person says contradictory things. If both things said by a person cannot be true then they ARE lying 100%. Finally, yes, emotion reading helps, if he's telling you he loves you while his face is showing "is she really falling for that" then run away. But of course you can ignore all that and pretend there's no ways to tell a lie because those pesky academics are DARPA shills.)))
That's the thing: when body language "experts" aren't saying things that are completely baseless and batshit based on nothing they're spouting banalities that anyone who ever spent time with humans could tell you. It's like going to a doctor because you can't stop vomiting and getting diagnosed as nauseous.
@@dklee.01 when you're a professional bullshitter such as a "body language expert", it's a good idea to pepper in a couple of obvious truths alongside the nonsense-one thing about human behaviour that _has_ been empirically demonstrated, is that we're generally more likely to accept ideas or statements (irrespective of veracity) that are delivered alongside/nested within statements that _are_ true (or at least, are believed to be). like "two truths and a lie", although it's usually more like two truths and _ten_ lies.
My grandmother was accused of murder by the doctors on scene when they arrived to pronounce my grandfather dead. It was later proven it was a simple heart attack. Processing trauma is different in everyone and people who aren't completely typical don't deserve punishment for it!
In the Salem Witch Trials, single women that had been able to own their own home, were accused of being witches just for being different. Anything out of the ordinary gets judged harshly, particularly when it involves women.
If this is true your grandmother could have probably sued the doctor for slander or something like that, a doctor can't accuse you of murder on the spot unless they happened to walk in the room as you were stabbing the guy
@@cosmicreef5858 that's my point, that nobody deserves punishment for that. I'm not implying here that people who do process trauma typically do deserve punishment. What. That's a whole new sentence.
You know, I once got profiled as "suspicious" while going through customs in an airport because I'd just gotten off a 13-hour trans-pacific flight that I hadn't been able to sleep on and was tired and exhausted and couldn't think well enough to answer questions smoothly. You'd think the staff at an international airport would be used to seeing people worn out from travel, but apparently not.
As a person with anxiety and a chronic tic disorder this is terrifying. People have misunderstood my facial tics before without even looking for micro-expressions. I was even flagged once when calling my insurance company because I was soft spoken and said 'umm' too much, so they put me through extra screening to see if I really was who I said I was. It's no wonder I have a fear of authority figures, their misunderstandings could land me in a lot more trouble.
I remember a criminologist said how everyone gets serial killers wrong based on Hollywood's stereotypes And further said this is why serial killers intentionally kill the poor , minorities and woman especially addicts and ones who work as prostitutes because our society still shows a bias at victims of sex work And that the stereotype serial killer tropes such as Norman Bates would of stood out and most of them are pretty arrogant and even brag about what they do It's people like the ones she's speaking on that get it it wrong and why many of them don't get caught until they've killed multiple people because they're looking for the loner nerdy guy instead of the socialite or those in the medical or transportation professions where they can easily travel and not get caught Locally in my state , they just found a serial killer nurse who was able to go from 5 different nursing homes to kill senior citizens and no one even put it together because how social she was right under their noses
Seriously, I have tourettes, including a winking tic, and a tilting my head. Those get me misunderstood enough, I can't imagine what these "experts" would think of me.
As someone who constantly fidgets (extreme anxiety means I'm literally never comfortable) I feel you. I'm terrified what will happen to me if I ever get arrested and accused of a crime, because people never believe I'm innocent.
Thank you. This is MUCH needed. The cops who interviewed me about my abuse when I was 9 determined, on body language alone, that I was lying about what happened to me. As a result, my abuser never saw jailtime for what he did to me. No thought perhaps went into the fact that I was 9, scared, cold, in an unfamiliar environment, and talking about the abuse for the first time. I call bullshit on "body language analysis" every time I see it.
Wow. This is beyond horrifying. I am so deeply sorry you have been so incredibly let down by the adults who were supposed to be effing protecting you. I am so sorry.
Fun thing about the show "Lie to Me" - the premise of the show is that you can tell how someone is feeling *even if they're acting* because they'll give it away with micro expressions -- then each episode they show you slow mo bits of people's faces and point to the signs of their various emotional states - but the people are the actors playing the people being studied - so how did they get those actors to have the right facial expressions in their slow mo scenes? By getting the actors to act. By disproving the very premise of the show, by showing that actors can fake the very expressions the show says can't be faked.
Yet some are more poker faced than others. Body language is determined by culture as well as emotions and is also peculiar to the individual. I look for changes in somebody's body language once I get to know them rather than their actual body language.
What's interesting about that is it is actually based on some science but it's not "lying" it's emotional body language, looking up the actual science of micro expressions is really cool and they happen all over the body, but no people aren't lying just because of micro expressions, it just more subtle body language than can help you read the vibes and emotions of people more clearly but that's about it, it's cool though and definitely recommend it. You can learn about it on TH-cam and the guy who studied it (and inspired the show) Paul Ekman
Fair point! I love that show, and, until watching this video, I'd bought into body language & microexpressions as reliable tools. Can't argue with your logic here, though, or the mounds of research Munecat shared proving otherwise!
@keithberjeron763Or he's probably just a liar, and the FBI won't say anything because he's not revealing any actual information. Agents, even retired, tend to be quite vague about what they did. "I was in the offices."
@keithberjeron763 That's not how evidence works, though. You need a null hypothesis. A baseline "most probable case without evidence". In this case, the random dude talking about pseudoscience is most likely to not be a counterintelligence agency if he's doing a podcast grift where he calls himself a "spy catcher". I wouldn't say impossible, and I get being skeptical, but skepticism without a baseline of assumed truth is just radical denialism.
being a victim and having people tear apart every single expression, twitch, stutter, and movement to claim you’re lying about your assault/trauma is my worst nightmare.
@@larbot3433 fortunately some of us saw actual lawyers commenting on a certain case, instead of body language experts. they can at least use evidence and their experience to say who seems shady. anyway, at least in the case i am thinking of, the body language experts and the lawyers, seemed to agree ;)
@@ScorpionFlower95 regardless of what these alt right YT lawyers say about the case ,the mere fact that it was heavily publicised and scrutinised is extremely problematic for victims regardless of whether you suspect heard lied about it or not. even if you suspect that heard spent years documenting fake evidence of being abused in the relationship, you don't know for sure that what she said happened didn't happen (how could you, you were not there) and therefore subjecting her to that process is actually fucking awful. awful for victims to think that if they were to ever speak about their experience that the entire planet would attack their clothes, their personality, the way they speak, their movements, etc. while they spoke about being sexually assaulted in front of the entire planet.
@@larbot3433 alt right lawyers? lol, we clearly watched different channels. "even if you suspect that heard spent years documenting fake evidence of being abused in the relationship, you don't know for sure that what she said happened didn't happen (how could you, you were not there) and therefore subjecting her to that process is actually fucking awful." the 'you were not there argument can be used both ways. and something else that can also go the other way, is this: when female victims go after their abusers, we cheer them on. but when male victims do it, we say that is inhumane for the abuser? please 🙄🙄
I recall participating in a study once, many years ago, for a research student at the forensic science institute I now am doing my PhD at. They were investigating indicators of lying using a variety of biometrics. It sparked an interest in me, not in body language analysis, but in experimental design because it was so incredibly poor. They asked a series of questions, asked you to answer some truthfully, some untruthfully, standard stuff. But the "truthful" questions were harmless and easy - what's your name, how old are you? - whereas the the questions you were expected to lie to were accusations of crimes, sometimes very serious ones. With no priming, I went from being "baselined" on questions about my name and age and such, to having to lie to several accusations of crimes (in effect, having to admit to several crimes in sequence, since I was innocent of all of them). Going from truthfully answering "what is your name" to untruthfully admitting to trafficking a large quantity of illicit drugs was so violently unnatural I can't imagine the results were anything within the range of publishable. Ironically, it made me a better scientist, because it shook me out of the idea that science can really "say" anything. Science is a bunch of people making guesses and checking them, and sometimes they just check them really, really poorly.
Science, at its best, is a process of systemic humility. Most guesses are going to be wrong. And even the best guess that fits the current data may not be completely accurate in the face of future information. So here's a process to go through all the guesses, compare them, and document them for future scientists to examine. Both for error in substance and in judgment.
I see this a lot too. A lack of time and resources, and/or implicit assumptions about experiments will lead to a form of selection bias. Control conditions are sometimes assumed more than they explored thoroughly, and so comparisons to experiments aren't informative. In the lab, the answer is to explore the control situation thoroughly, then scrap the data if you find a confounding factor and start again. I imagine it's so much harder to handle this when your experiment involves human subjects, because the tight controls mean you might not even get a second pass at refining your survey/test/whatever. You just have to hope you do better next time...
I don't see how they could think that study would work?? Unless I'm misunderstanding the setup. But if I'm asked to lie and I know you know it's a lie......that's acting not lying. We all implicitly know there's a difference between acting and lying. Acting is calm and just takes some mental effort to conjure up a facial expression and tone of voice. There's no inner workings that correspond. To lie comes with shortness of breath, rising heartbeat, a sinking/sick/nervous feeling in the pit of your stomach. I don't know how you could devise a study that would capture those biometric markers. The only thing that makes them rise is wanting to keep the truth hidden either out of fear of punishment or shame of what people will think of you if the truth is known. If I know there's no possibility of either then the questions are just a thought exercise, acting, and there's no true need to lie
@@scroogemcduckismyspiritanimal With as many fingers in the "science" pot as there are you're bound to get some people who totally missed the point. In theory it should be mostly mitigated by peer review, but one of the major problems in "science culture" generally is a *lack of appreciation* for thorough peer review and pressure on everyone to pump more papers out.
@@scroogemcduckismyspiritanimal Lying doesn't necessarily correspond to anything physiological, especially if a person is lying without guilt. Like, if you tell your friend that you like a picture that they posted when you actually don't, how would they know? How _could_ they know?
As a body language expert, you'll notice that the vast majority of body language experts tend to rock back and forth while speaking, which stimulates the anus. This gives them a warm, familial feeling as it brings them back to when they were infants and their caregiver would clean their anus after they made a mess in their diaper.
1:07:11 I read this as "It will get a confession 85 percent of the time, guilt being irrelevant." It is a psychological torture technique and they will do and say anything to make it stop eventually
Nothing is quite as annoying as having a conversation with someone who is suspicious of you, you telling them the truth, and them looking at you with that confident look people get when they think they've caught you in a lie. That's what I always imagine with these body language "experts"
My parents would do that a lot in my childhood. “You know how I know that’s a lie? Your eyes drifted up to your left *points with a smile*” Core memories achieved 🎉😢
@@bbyghostie1044 That sucks honestly. My mother would sometimes get mad at me because of my 'tone' and often I didn't understand what was so upsetting about it. My voice just started shaking at one point and that apparently meant I was being angry or something? It's stuck in my mind forever ;-;
@@stuckinneutral3522 see nonverbal communication is real. Some of the "tells" these guys talk about are alright general rules. Like people can read emotions on a face, especially if you know a person for years of interaction. Humans are 50/50 on telling if someone is lying and if you learn how to tune into the language and actions to figure it out, it probably goes up.
@@bbyghostie1044 I'm really sorry. I had it one time I remember distinctly from a random adult. She accused my cousin and I of vandalism when all we'd done was walk somewhere and then sat in the shallow end of the pool. We told her as much and she acted that way. It stuck with me forever so I can't imagine how awful parents doing that to you would be. May you unlearn the issues that undoubtedly caused.
Remember when The Daily Mail printed a pic of Kate holding her tummy when pregnant and explaining how it showed how nurturing she was, then a pic of Meghan holding her tummy when pregnant and explaining how it showed how self centred she was? Hooray for body language experts!!!!
@@Laurabeck329 LOL. The law in the US is decided by the whims of whatever people took enough bribes to get onto the Supreme Court. Quite a lot of "evidence" admissible in court is utter bull, but stays that way because out country is a joke
As an autistic person who regularly does a lot of the things these people say indicates lying and guilt, I'll have you know I am, in fact, always lying and have, in fact, committed all the crimes. /s Edit: For the people saying they look for a baseline; I am an extremely anxious person. I distinctly remember one time at work where someone stole something, and I spent 3 hours panicking. I was not acting like my baseline. I hadn't left my area at all since it had last been accounted for and had witnesses to this. I clearly didn't steal it, and no one would think I had except that I started having a panic attack that I would found out (for a crime I didn't commit). This is something I do often; worry about being guilty of things I obviously hadn't done. So I act like a guilty person.
The lip licking and hesitation ones especially kill me. I have dry lips and often struggle immediately to not stumble over my words in conversation, hence the two responses.
Not to vent but I had parents who believed in body langauge & that caused them to accuse me of lying whenever my siblings did something because when they "interogated" us I was always the most nervous. (I'm autistic. I was nervous because they were interrogating me. I was stimming to regulate.) Which just led them to give an excuse to abuse me lol. Seriously. Fuck "Body language".
Honestly, that's just a thing all parents do at least once in their children's life. Most parents that I've heard doing this always say that they just know because they are the parent. Whatever reason they give, it is just an excuse. If your parents didn't believe in the body language thing, they probably would've said something about their intuition.
I'm so sorry this happened to you. My grandma used to do shit like this too, she felt especially qualified because she was a nurse. I used to suffer with a lot of stomach problems (turns out it was a chronic condition) growing up and often she'd accuse me of all sorts of things because of my body "language", "language" that was just me trying to get comfortable. I.e if I crossed my arms over my stomach (because it was hurting), according to her it was because I was "preparing to lie" or if I readjusted while she was shouting at me and wasn't completely still then I wasn't "listening" to her.
for the first 40 minutes I was sat thinking a lot of these methods just do not apply to autistic people reliably at all, then it dropped that ekman study did a study with 6 facial expressions and I laughed. This shit is laughably not universal. My experience growing up was people assuming my guilt and I was just there the whole time like "this is just my face". Of course if you shout at me I am going to get more nervous. It's all a pile of shite assumptions about 'normal' behvaviours
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS!! as an autistic person who’s actions don’t always coincide with how I’m feeling, I’m so tired of “body language experts” being all over TH-cam
Same thing here, it's also this type of misunderstanding that's ruined a lot of my friendships. That and I'm the literal human depiction of the hedgehog dilemma, and I have tons of projected insecurities caused by years of bullying and social isolation.
"When it’s straight up pathetic bullying" THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SAYING THAT. I’ve pointed out how the public tears at celebrities or just someone posted on the internet can be a form of cyber bullying and the hate I’ve received each time is astonishing. Whenever one thing goes wrong or a "scandal" happens, people I know have been so quick to hop on the hate train- with reasons like, "I knew there was something up them. It was just a feeling." Like what????? Then when the scandal proves to have been nothing more than a fake, widespread, playground rumor, they’re quiet. Then someone basically told me, "they should expect to be judged if they’re putting themselves on the internet." So like - cyber bullying is not okay if it’s one of us "mere mortal" but it’s okay if a person made a name for themselves and is successful (to some degree). Like, I cannot-smh. They are still one person. So much hate can break them just as much as the next person. Try to put yourself in their shoes and learn so empathy
I'm a licensed therapist, and all the time I have to talk to my clients about how I'm not constantly interpreting their body language and how that's just psuedoscience, because they've been lead to believe that mental health professionals do that sort of thing by these yahoos. Like there are some body language indicators that can help, crossed arms and leaned back implies the client is withdrawn, but for the most part its all a lot of bunk.
This is very true. People think that this kind of bullshit is harmless and that we should just ignore the bullshitters, but it's really harmful and dangerous. Can you imagine what this kind of thing can do to someone with a mental health condition with tendencies toward things like paranoia or psychosis? Being constantly made aware of subtle cues of dishonesty that aren't justified but you're told are justified and backed up with science. Or imagine having schizophrenia and having all the symptoms being welcomed with open arms and encouraged in a church and on the evening news, with demons and angels and talking to spirits and whatnot. Or actually having sociopathy personality disorder and being shown that you can make money off of predating on vulnerable people and you could be famous and praised for comforting the masses by guiltlessly preying on the weaker, that you are encouraged to see as tools to further your career as body language expert, spirit whisperer, or pastor or apologist. It's not healthy and it's not harmless stuff that comforts some people and we should just respect as a different view or different beliefs. It's glorifying the constant encouragement of harmful behaviour, while also constantly making people more suspicious of other people, especially honest and sincere people because it encourages to ignore actual evidence and be extra suspicious or faithful in the face of contradicting evidence to score (faith) points, and painting criticism as close mindedness,ironically closing the mind off from everything that doesn't align with the presumptions that are being made about people and the rest of the world around us.
I will always remember the story of Lindy Chamberlain. She had her baby killed by a dingo which was later proven, but because she didn’t have the body language of a stereotypical “hysterical grieving mother” the jury found her guilty for murdering her baby. This woman lost her baby, was taken from her family, wrongfully imprisoned for years, physically and sexually assaulted and still receives death threats to this day just because she processed grief in an atypical way. Fuck body language analysis, this crap ruins lives.
Remind me another murder case about a mother get death row and later in her death to find out she didn't murder her children because they found a different finger print in the crime scene *why* they sentence her because they see her video days after the incident that she act different in her children grave Edit: i forget to mention she is the survivor of the incident and the only key witnesses
You’re talking about an atypical example to prove why body language isn’t legitimate, and to say legitimate as in a statistically demonstrated way. The reason it is and can be used in real life is because most people follow these behaviours. So because there are atypical examples we should disregard the majority
As a Autistic person I really appreciate this video. People always get my expressions wrong and assume the weirdest shit from accusing me of me of being "aggressive" whilst I'm in pain to telling that I "should sulk so much". Most times I'm just tired. Other times I'm just uncomfortable or don't know what is expected of me. I struggle immensely to look at people in the eye, even my husband and mother had to teach me how to with them but with other people, I just can't. So I trained myself to look around them, or at their eye brows, or lashes. Sometimes I get accused of being dishonest even when I'm not, all because I "can't look them in the eye so I must be lying." It's so frustrating. People think they've got you all figured out. The Dadevote talks about "the nothing box". Basically don't assume your partner is angry or whatever. They could literally be thinking about nothing.
My husband is a person with Autism. It took me a while to learn all of his facial expressions mean, why he didn't look up or greet me when I came home from from work if he was engrossed in a project or something he was reading about, why he doesn't make eye contact sometimes, why he seems angry or irritated for seemingly no reason (usually over stimulation) etc. And it took a long time to learn not to take those kinds of things personally or to read too much into them. And I'm positive all these things are different for every person living with ASD. It's impossible to read what's happening inside someone's mind solely based off of what's happening on their face or what's happening with their body. It takes a lot of time and experience to learn how another person's mind works. As a side note; I don't want this comment to sound negative. He does struggle with it sometimes and so do I, but the fact that my husband has Autism is what makes him so special. It makes him incredibly sensitive, SUPER smart, and extremely creative. And boy does he love to research and learn new things!! He has taught me amazing things I probably would have never known. He has taught me to see the world in a different way. I see more beauty because of him. If I mention that I'm interested in a new hobby, he'll research it for hours and then show up one day with everything I could possibly need and help me to get started. He can lay in in bed and hear the most faint bird call with the window closed, a sound my ears would never pick out of all the noise of the city, and be able to ID what bird it is. He's just incredible in so many ways because of his Autism and it's something I celebrate and cherish about him. ❤
My husband also has a very non-expressive form of autism, and it also took me a while to get used to understanding that it didn't equate rejection, lack of caring, etc., just that his inner world doesn't reflect what he expresses. My own form of autism, I am often very hyper expressive and super anxious, so I'm sure detectives would read us both as guilty, lol. I keep hearing the body language "experts" define all the signs of lying as extremely neurotypical without mentioning any exceptions to the rule (or how context can signficantly change the way someone responds to a situation), and to assert such 'rules' with such confidence and authority just comes off extremely harmful and biased.
I’m diagnosed with ADHD. I thought the same when she mentioned the fidgeting. I fidget because I need to move and to keep myself focused/awake not because I’m nervous. I mask my inability or loss of focus, I’m emotional, I have sensory discomforts to white LED lights, some noises, smells, etc So many things could make these experts think I’m guilty of something.
I love the true crime channels trying to analyse the body language of criminals saying "Body language is by some considered a psudo-science BUT is used by the FBI and CIA." I mean the CIA tried using telepathy for a while as well, doesn't mean it worked.
I should go find out where I posted that and redact it. I am guilty of that in the past, although I said it was used by the FBI/CIA and police interrogators AND also included that it was inconclusive and not enough to only look at nonverbals, but that there is a lot more to it than that. You make a very valid point, though.
I attended several of these classes and was the lead interrogator for my police department. This video is so spot on. Not only do some of these tactics sometimes put innocent people in jail, but we are trained to believe every person is guilty, and to question them with absolute guilt in mind. Needless to say, being a cop was one of the worst periods of my life and I quit after roughly 5 years. I genuinely wanted to help people, but too often felt like the bad guy. I ended my career after I wouldn't lie on the stand for the DA and basically acted as a witness for the defense in a felony case.
The police in Germany is not questioning people to confirm if someone is guilty. They are interrogating to find out the details, facts. The judge has to conclude if someone is someone guilty.
Thank you for being a good person. But it is absolutely terrifying that people like you are deterred from police work, and instead we have the people who want a power trip and will say anything.
It's a shame that you quit because we need more deeply honest police... But also, I don't blame you one bit for the decision. The world is in dire need of some police reform. But anyways, back on topic, I'm glad to hear you backing up the notions of this video 🙂
So that’s why some cops are horrible to potential assault victims! And mentally ill people who are in a crisis! Cops are not particularly emotionally intelligent or trained properly on how to de escalate a person in crisis. Obviously I understand this doesn’t apply to every cop in the USA.
i have bipolar, and i remember during my last manic episode i was CONVICED that everyone could essentially read my mind because i heard that body language can tell everything you are thinking. it sure didnt help my mania . good to finally understand that ppl cannot read my mind through my body language.
"Pick which emotion this is out of these _six exact choices that were chosen by me._ No, you can't pick any other option, that's not allowed. That's not sCiEnCe." Painfully accurate.
Even children's therapists (at least those with rigorous training to treat traumatized and neurodivergent kids) stopped using that method to ask kids their emotional state. They do use pictures, but there is a far wider array and are exaggerated cartoon illustrations- like a person huffing with their arms crossed or someone kicking someone else in the shin. It's also dramatically more complicated than pointing at one and running with it- as if a traumatized nonverbal autistic 5 year old can even comprehend what some grimacing face is portraying.
And then the study found 6 universal emotions. Definitely a coincidence. Weird that the 6 universal emotions just happen to be the exact emotions they allowed as the only options for responses.
omg this reminds me of being at school. teachers would think i was lying bc i wouldn’t hold eye contact or i was fidgeting. like yeah? ur shouting in my face what do u want me to do😭
@TrueDrax92wanna hear something shocking about eye contact and those who insist you do it? Predatory psychopaths need that eye contact to determine if you are an easy victim. They will often gaslight vulnerable people into the "look into my eyes when i am talking to you" trick by saying you are lying if you dont.
My pet peeve is seeing body language channels clearly riding on a hate train against certain individuals like Meghan Markle or Britney Spears. They really wanted to see the worst from these people so they can get clicks.
My stepdad who was in the army always said he knew I was lying bc he had gotten training for it, and basically just assumed that everything I said was a lie and would intimidate me into actually lying and just saying what he wanted to hear. So yeah, very good first impression of body language experts for me
That sounds awful, I'm sorry to hear that. Just the image of someone like him being happy he's "proven right" makes me angry, but at least you have the power that deep inside you know he's being a moron about this while you're just looking out for yourself.
I probably already have 'weird body language' because of my chronic backpain, can't imagine how destructive these tactics could be for people on the spectrum or with down syndrome or anything else. Thank you so much for always killing it with these video's.
As someone on the spectrum: it’s so destructive that our average lifespan is less than 60, with the leading cause of death (not accounting for epilepsy) being suicide 🙃
It would actually be interesting to clearly know the emotional state of people with severe mental disabilities. Because I wanna know wether they like the food or wether I should order a different meal next time. You know, right now I'm guessing at work. Usually there's some things, bu.... Wait, I lost the thread. Anyway, I would not want those people anywhere near any of my clients.
I'm 1h16m in and want to mention that trauma impairs memory. Recalling not only specific details, but also the order in which things happened, and fitting the events into a broader timeline, can be incredibly difficult EVEN IF someone is totally comfortable in the presence of law enforcement/etc. The impairment isn't limited to the traumatic event itself, either. The things that happened before and after can also be affected. We've seen how failures of memory are treated in cases where someone is sexually assaulted/raped/etc, and in many cases involving someone from a historically excluded group (ex Black, Indigenous, and People of Color).
This is so important. People ignorant on how trauma impacts cognitive function will genuinely take trauma symptoms as proof of falsehoods and deception ):
this is why u NEVER talk to the police. get a lawyer first ALWAYS. no matter what you do or say, innocent or guilty, they will find something to use against you
hell, never even mind trauma- humans are bad witnesses. we remember a story of the event that we tell ourselves after the fact, and our subconscious paints in the details. that's why eyewitness accounts are impossible to rely on; it's very easy for them to misremember, or to take a suggestion and run with it, or to swap details of the event around, especially if the series of events was confused to begin with. actually, if you separate 2 witnesses and they tell you the exact same story, that's a pretty good sign of a lie, whereas if they tell you two things which line up only 60%, at least one of them is likely telling the truth.
Fun fact, I was 16 and witnessed my grandma die in the hospital, straight afterwards I bought my first pack of cigarettes and chain smoked them in the street because I was so out of it and needed a distraction of sorts, I was smiling like an idiot and felt like the world was melting around me. My uncle arrives and sees me and tells the whole family I'm a psychopath because I wasn't "crying like a normal person" (that came later), I don't have contact to this part of the family anymore because they suck for many reasons but yeah, great thing to do to a teenager from an abusive home whose only non abusive parental figure just died.
Everyone deals with death differently. lm the typical break down and weep, but l understand that some people don’t do that. Grief is complex and nobody grieves the same way.
That and there are lots of different reasons for why somone griefs the way they do, I rarely cry when grieving, I'm more likely to just be silent and move to the background, which according to my therapist is a completely normal trauma response because I'm trying to protect myself from further emotional harm, even when I feel completely safe in an environment, I usually need to be alone to cry.
My grandma also passed away, and it felt so weird being the only one at the celebration of life who didn’t cry. My reaction was delayed by at least a day.
I found my brother dead in the bathtub with a floating poop. To this day my only reaction is laughter based on the fact we had not long before sat down and watched south park laughing deeply over the conversations between characters about how you void you bowels when you pass. People look at my funny when I try explain this but such is life.
I cross examine witnesses for a living. No 2 people lie the same (and if they do, you’d never know which 2 they are); that’s why we have to use “logic” and “reasoning” to ask them questions where they can’t see where we are going, and get them to box themselves into a falsehood (it’s not hard at all, we try and be up and down in less than 5 minutes).
@@trekkiejunkyou may not realize it, but the replies you’re leaving are pretty ableist. You’re erasing the struggles of us autistic people and saying “all people do that”. Neurotypical people may experience some of these a little bit, and you obviously don’t understand HOW MUCH it affects autistic people. It’s not just fidgeting a bit during stressful situations. And I’m not going to explain it all to you since I’m not your teacher. If you want it explained go do some research.
@pemanilnoob587 the person said "as well". they are trying to illustrate how this "body language" mumbo jumbo is untrue on all levels. i know that neurotypical has become a very vague word at this point, and it sometimes includes mental illnesses and sometimes doesn't (so idk who they include when they use that term), but allistic mentally ill people also exhibit "odd" or atypical body language.
@@trekkiejunk i love it when neurodivergent people talk about neurotypical people like they are these magical homogenous beings that all behaves the same way and experience the same emotion
This is like the main reason I hate being neurodivergent, people always try to "read" me but like, I'm just awkward, sometimes I get really bad anxiety because I'm terrified that my facial expressions or speech patterns are setting off "red flags" for people or making them think I'm untrustworthy or something just because I stuttered or was touching my hair too much or even made a weird face
The thing that kills me is that they'll demand these behaviors then say you have an anxiety disorder if you try to perform the behaviors correctly to avoid punishment
It's so strange to me that people get so hung up on this stuff. In reality, no one is paying attention to you. No one cares. No one's analyzing your face or what you're doing with your body, everyone is just preoccupied with thier own lives and what they are doing. No one could care less what anyone else is doing.
I've always hated when people say that having your arms crossed is a sign of being closed off or angry. Like, no, it's comfy? Why shouldn't I hold my arms in a way that's comfy? Never made sense to me.
I remember an hr training that had a slide about body language that said “someone crossing their arms could be a sign that they are angry, or they could just be a little cold. Don’t rely on body language”
personally ive found it to be true in My Own Personal Experience In My Own Body because ever since i heard that years ago i catch myself getting excessively defensive in an argument when i realize i'm crossing my arms and/or legs, and it helps me take a step back and assess my emotional state and avoid unecessary escalation however give i'm autistic theres a very good chance this is in fact just something i picked up and started emulating specifically to fit in, most likely from animated series in which, yes, crossed arms are a big signpost of discomfort or defensiveness because in animation you have to make the emotions of the characters as readable to the audience as possible i have never in my life tried to use this """knowledge""" to ""spot"" someone ELSE being closed off because they crossed their arms. literally how would i know that's what that means to them?
On the subject of polygraphs, you can always just refuse it. The point of a polygraph test is to lie and tell you that you failed it just to see what you'll do.
1. You often can't refuse it, we test all recruits in important sectors in Ukraine on polygraphs... Can't take a chance. We know they aren't perfect but still better than nothing. 2. That's not the point, we don't care "what will someone offering to work for us do if they're told they lied", we need extra layer to see if the person is genuine or spying for russia. 3. I think Westerners are just too spoiled and privileged in your coddled, safe life, so you can just complain about everything while selling weapons components to putin.
@BellePal Yeah. By the way, counterintelligence organizations in countries at war don't even have time nor resources to try to operate ethically. They WILL put hundreds or even thousands of people, many of whom are innocent, behind bars or even under the ground. War is madness.
This pseudoscience is just THE worst nightmare for socially awkward and neurodivergent people. During my school years I had been bullied by classmates for acting/speaking "weird" (I had no friends and ended up regressing in speech because I had no one to have a proper conversation at home as well). In the last years, I was know for being the most serious/apathetic person in my year when I was just trying to pull myself together for how everybody treated me like a joke for being socially awkward (and later I found out I had anxiety and depression all that time). If one day I'm in the public eye for something serious these channels will eat me alive.
one of my greatest fears is being famous or well known for any reason because of this sort of stuff. I know I'm odd as do my loved ones and I'm on with that, but I know how horrible mob mentality is
i have adhd so these channels would think I'm hiding and trying to run away because I'm simply trying not to be super hyper while I'm supposed to be sitting still
Yeah I hate those body language experts because it exclusively applies to neurotypical communication And even then, you can still learn "poor social skills" regardless your neurotype
Or they were using reverse psychology, telling the truth and pretending it was a lie. Or maybe they were using reverse reverse psychology, by assuming we assume reverse psychology and outsmart us by lying about lying about lying. They could also be using reverse reverse reverse psychology...
These scam artists always annoy me. I was abused as a child and it has effected my body language and how I communicate with others; I always worry that I am not being truthful because I don't look at people in the eyes or be expressive in the way that they expect.
Don't worry, you are not alone in not looking people in the eye, for instance, Japanese people get scared at westerners looking at their eyes when talking. So a whole nation is with you on not looking people in the eye.
I live in Minnesota and i also dislike eye contact (both due to where I'm from and by anxiety), I have found it's pretty good here in that regard! If you can stand the less great parts of the midwest, that is :| We make sure not to look each other in the eyes. We even have conversations at a 90 degree angle for the sole purpose of avoiding eye contact! It's kinda cold, but I think you'd like it here 🙂 (i'm the same way for different reasons and it's a nice perk of living here lol. I know a few of the European countries [Norway or one of those guys I can't remember] are even more eye-contact adverse which sounds awesome, but good look getting them to let you move there)
My mother, who i truly believe has NPD and abised me as well as a child, always tells me to look in peoples eyes because they think im lying elsewise. It reeally fucks with me because it gives me such anxiety to look in peoples eyes and its her fault from the things she did to me as a child. I really hate her always pointing out things i do that i thought was fine and saying other people find me weird for it, that in itself feels lowkey abusive
Police chief: how's the Reid technique coming along? Policeman/researcher: it's great! I got the suspect to admit to crimes he never even committed. Police chief: so it works
I wish someone made a show where a crime is faked, and all those experts are invited to give their analysis only to reveal at the end that they've been watching actors pretend like they're victims, witnesses and whatnot. It'd be really insightful when they inevitably fail to spot the staging and even better if they think they found the supposed murderer.
well actors mimics real feelings, so... that means that there are some expressions wich coincides with some feelings.. otherwise they wouldn´t be good actors.
The whole point of this bullshit pseudoscience is that the micro expressions show your true emotions, if it was real they could tell you were acting since you don’t actually feel the way you’re acting
I'm Autistic and have gone my whole life having people make wildly inaccurate judgements about me base on my facial expressions, so every time I see "body language expertise" wheeled out I feel my skin crawl.
not that i dont agree with this video , i do. but since this is something that happens to you alot and you mention that youre Autistic , then perhaps your expressions deviate abit from your non_autistic peers and they dont find that your expressions match with whats really going on. what im trying to say is....if being autistic makes a difference in ones expressions, then of course most people would have a hard time "reading" them. even if they were able to 100% accurately read non_autistic peoples expressions.... hope that made sense
This is the fault of those people. Body language can only be subject to analysis AFTER a baseline is established. If one suddenly acts differently from their normal baseline, that’s a cause for concern in any situation. Why are they suddenly stiff and still when they usually fidget and rock in place? This is what BLA actually is. Tells of deception/discomfort aren’t universal.
@@Wonderoddity its not. Body language people maybe a problem, but this has been an issue before they came. Talking to autistic people is extremely difficult outside of Discord.
@neonpeacocks I liken bla to lie detectors. You can establish baselines in lie detection but that still does not make it a reliable source. One major thing bla will struggle with is context. Our baselines will shift in different environments and scenarios. Like someone has had trouble sleeping the past week due to sounds or whatever excuse. Their baseline during this time will be greatly different then when they are in perfect health. There are just too many variables in day to day life for a true baseline to ever be established. Kind of like how your farts smell different, as there is a different combination of things contributing to each one.
These people are the reason I can’t focus on a conversation properly. I have ADHD so instead of doing what helps me listen and not just hear what someone is saying, I feel like I have to “perform” listening ie give eye contact sit up straight, nod head, interact by saying “yes” and “yeah, okay.” It’s so stupid. I just want to be myself and do what helps me actually listen instead of what people perceive as listening.
omg same. Ive been doing it so long that a lot of my semi-automatic expressions arent really natural to me, I had to train myself to do them. idk what im like naturally bc ive been playing a role my whole life, and its exhausting to constsntly be acting but i cant stop anymore. So tiring. I still constantly pay an unreasonable amount of attention to my facial expressions when talking to ppl im not super super comfortable around, bc im terrified of being misunderstood.
@@MrDutchmarshalthe adhd isn't the problem, but things that help with listening (stimming, avoiding direct eye contact) is what people perceive as NOT listening so as to not have people constantly tell you you're being disrespectful you have to focus on doing those things. Consequently, you don't end up listening at all because you're too focused on acting like you are.
I remember about 5 years ago I told my therapist that I always felt out of place or like I didn’t belong so I would study the people around me and body watch language videos to blend in. Not only was I informed they weren’t accurate, a couple weeks later I got diagnosed with autism at 25 lol
One of the biggest problems with professions like "body language experts" is that they receive little to no feedback on whether or not their analysis was actually right. A lack of feedback makes it impossible to improve at a skill, since you don't even know if you did it correctly. These people have horrible self awareness to not realize that they're just deluding themselves into thinking they can do magic. It doesn't matter how much theory you know if it's never actually put to the test, in a situation where you can know the correct answer afterwards.
@@captainufo4587 I believe the former. Why think your a bad person scammer when you can delude yourself to be an educator on a science? With confirmation bias they don't look at when something doesn't work or someone don't behave in that way. As they mention it's got a margin of error. It's ambiguous success rate means you can build more belief and confidence in your skills, no matter how flawed. This is my crappy opinion anywayz
It's the same with a lot of the red pill game coaches / pickup artists They sell courses to young men promising they'll be rich charismatic alpha bachelors that can pick up hot young women on the regular or close million dollar business deals with just one liners, proper body language, and a slight smirk at just the right angle. Then you find out they get their women on sugar baby sites with the money you send them for the courses or they're in an open relationship with a woman built like a kangapotamus and they're living off her income
@@tianqi5008 They problem is that we don't choose what we believe. And it goes both way. On the other hand, when your livelihood depends something that is a lie, that might very well put you in a situation where you becomes a scammer. For example, there are pastors that even after losing the faith don't quit their jobs. Moreover, when you are spouting something that has no evidence to support it and make a living out of it, you gotta get pretty good at convincing people to trust you. Which incidentally is the skill set of a con artist.
As someone who is autistic, I do wish this sort of scientific reading of body language was accurate simply because I struggle to understand or recognize basic body language and social cues. Unfortunately, it’s only good for making me overthink everything I do more than I already do.
I've used a body language person on youtube to assist in understanding cues that seem to come naturally to others. Certianly never to tell if someone is lying or any of that crazy stuff... just indicators of how my patients might be feeling and to help me respond in ways that will convey what I want. I'm also autistic and I found this helpful as a nurse. I actually agree with this video because the "art" is misused. The good body language experts never speak in definites and tend to say things like "They *could* be uncomfortable." These indicators of discomfort have helped me navigate just a little better. It had helped me know when I need change subjects or if I need to redirect my patient (like if they're giving signs of discomfort or anxiety during a procedure, I can hold their hand or start talking with them about something I've already figured out is positive for them. Talking about pets is generally a good diversion). These emotional signs are natural for most people! Not me.
@@sapphinese Me too, and it's just because I'm sometimes tired and bored and I can't be arsed to repeat myself with the same emotions I had when I first said something. Which kind of sucks sometimes because I'm a singer/songwriter and once I've written it down I'm kind of done with it and I would have to act to make it convincing when I sing it and that just doesn't feel right. On the flip side, people around me know that I can't repeat myself and I am always sincere, so if they ask me to recall something I can only come up with what I expect I would say in a situation based on the intentions I have that are simply based in wanting to support and help people with encouraging behaviour, and in shitting on bullshit to discourage that. So based on whether or not something was leaning toward well being or toward bullshit I either encouraged or discouraged. Long story short, I don't think that showing emotions while speaking is all that important as long as you're being consistent in your behaviour and your words match that behaviour. That's how you build trust. Emotions can helpful in giving an impression, which is not reliable at all and should never be relied on with people we don't know well, i.e. people we haven't (yet) established the consistency of. Emotions can be extremely misleading and deliberately so - people act, people scam, and very convincingly. So anyway, I don't think you're the one who has to worry about that. If there's a problem with it, it's because other people expect things that align with their assumptions and they shouldn't; htat's what gets them shat on by churches and other scams.
I had an ex who was obsessed with shit body language experts say, so whenever we'd get into an argument, she'd deflect away from whatever I was trying to communicate and point out how my body language told her that I was "lying" or "gaslighting" or that "I didn't event believe the things I was saying." She'd leave every argument thinking she'd unearthed some deep, diabolical thing about me that perhaps I didn't even know about myself, and she'd go around to all of her family and friends telling them what I revealed to her through my body language, all the while never having to seriously consider my concerns, objections, or questions. It was exhausting. It's nice being with a rational, compassionate partner with whom I can have productive discussions now.
Happy you got out of that toxic garbage. I had astrology thrown at me in the past. Yours had to be even more maddening though, since so many people actually believe it.
Good for you... I always wondered how these things could even be practically applicable tho because most ppl do some things mentioned by body language experts that too for different reasons and not just one.i thought may be i was missing something that these people were seeing. But its pretty hard to keep a track of all this in a quick communication, you d have to train yourself to observe a lot and while observation is useful, applying it to body language/microexpressions feels like it would take off our attention from more different verbal and other cues that are a lot more important and are more clearly communicating the things than just body language and microexpressions (eg.when serial killers are pulling out a gun/while a person is having a panic attack n needs help while you are focused on their microexpressions, since i feel like it would need excessive concentration on face alone while having to sacrifice our attention to other important things, seeing how many times ppl that attempt to analyze the microexpressions have a super zoomed in image/video of the person they are assessing, irl most ppl dont stand that near a person enough to see that much facial detail and it seems a lot easier to pay attention to just their bodys movement (when they try to pull out a gun) and actions, regular expressions (angry expression) ,vocal cues (like angry raised voice) to see if you are in danger over paying attention to a serial killers microexpressions. it d also be intimidating to stare at ppl that much for microexpressions which might make em even more anxious/uncomfortable,nervous,angry and so on. And the licking your lips thing could mean you are dehydrated/your need more lip balm/your lips are dry hence some ppl have habit of licking their lips.. Same with starting the sentence from well/honestly like lot of ppl say that just out of habit even when they arent lying, some ppl may also use "well" Too calm the situation down when theres an argument going on.. So how are ppl going to distinguish things from so many different reasons until they even know the person.. I have seen ppl criticize amber Heard and meghan markle simply because of their body languages while not even mentioning things shes done logically but since i didn't care to look up much about them it made it easier to differentiate the difference between their actions vs just criticizing them for their behavior and body language. Now do i support these ppl? No do i think they are innocent, No (atleast for amber heard, if not for meghan since i know even less about her).. But does that mean it serves any one well to exaggerate someones guilt because of body language and then just that as an excuse to hate on someone for stress relief? I doubt it, its just bad for our own mental health, blood pressure while we look like mindless, uncivilized ancient angry mobs that attack anything that they find "looks wrong" even if the person that all this is directed towards is wrong, even if its ted bundy its better to criticize his actions and clear behavior than just hating/considering ppl guilty based on body language alone because then you are basically spreading the misconceptions about body language, which causes society to make an habit of slander, accuse ppl without proof or any other reasoning. It is possible that one knows an individuals behavior/verbal/in rare cases body language patterns because you know theirs but thats not applicable universally and it should still be used with grain of salt because different things can happen for different reasons even for the same person. other wise it can definitely break current or future relationships that one would have had if they had just tried not to judge ppl by their body language alone before actually trying to get to know them without all that in mind. Its pretty sad that this can heavily impact how ppl percieve other people and behave with them and their relationships. Your story and many other ppls including video finally made me realize that i am not the odd one out when i find body language and micro expression videos confusing and not very practically applicable irl. All this is also being taught to cops and regular ppl ,which means that they can catch and accuse wrong ppl when letting the real perps ppl go simply because they didn't match their expectations of microexpressions/ body language of a perp/i.e "didnt look guilty" And isnt that why ppl that are considered good looking/normal looking get away with being accused of a crime, while people think that the person that that doesn't suit their aesthetic preference might be bad when that's not always the case and may lead to false accusations. 😓 I wanted to see perspectives of both sides too tho so i found this and the person is kinda politely, comedically but passive aggressively angry about it because according to him he was taken out of context and if thats true then understandably so but apart from all the that etc after seeing both of these videos i think some things mune cats and this following video both somewhay agree on despite having different opinions is that most ppl arent trained to do the body language reading properly, and many ppl that copy it from TH-cam make mistakes. Link to video by shake th-cam.com/video/AE7rb7pymvs/w-d-xo.html So tho i think i ll have to articulate all my thoughts later to make a conclusion of my own since both their videos are long together to think about, some of what i understand is that if ppl without any successful experience/knowledge/practice in this ever want to try this practically irl and still see if it works for them since many ppl even without scientific evidence want to try it,they ll first have to differentiate deceptive channels from non deceptive ones and then actually learn it than just pointing out one one or two things without considering the context/persons personality (which many ppl do) and not do it if they are as good as applying it practically as some ppl that may be a little genuine are. And even then know that they could be wrong so not just use it randomly in relationship/investigation for accusing ppl without proof. Its not like reading basic body language is false like you can many times tell if someone's angry,sad,uncomfortable from their body language and behavior but it needs to be used with multiple different things from context,voice, personality, expressions and not just body language alone but you need to know that even if you can read basic stuff, if you arent related to the reason they are displaying the emotions or already know, you wont always accurately guess the reasons and even if you were correct at times,one can be wrong at other times. Hence its not as easy/supernaturally accurate/uncommon as ppl make it seem,we all use basic body language in our lives but ppl cant always use it with enough accuracy to use it in investigation/spot detection all the time, hence ppl do need a balance and know where their deductions can be right or wrong and where theres a room for error in their presumptions.
Yikes! I used to be mildly interested in body language videos but slowly started to see how it was pseudoscience. It was getting to the point where you could tell the person was just using context, tone of voice, words, and their own assumptions about subject of the video to "read their body language". Dr. Kirk Honda said it was garbage and he is an actual therapist so I'll take his word for it. Check him out if you want some actually valid information that will help you irl!
This is genuinely a scary topic for me. I don't even want to imagine how many people had falsely confessed because they got pressured so much in a interegation room and then went a live long to prison, because some analist thinks they were guilty. If they would interogate me, they'd probably throw me right into jail, just because in nervousness and autism I am showing all of the suposit symptoms.
Reminds me of the fact I learnt that avoiding eye contact in the West means you're dodgy, not listening, or up to something, but it's rude to stare in at least some Arab cultures and polite to lower your gaze, which I always felt. Also good luck with trying to analyse neurodivergent people... Not a single person with social anxiety or anywhere on the spectrum would be able to get past this. It also is completely ignoring the fact most people are constantly thinking about how they appear, changing up things when they realise they may not look how they want to. It assumes we're all just unthinking animals.
Walmart had a serious problem when they first opened in Russia, because they insisted on teaching employees to smile at every customer. In Russia, traditionally if you smile at a stranger you're either a psychopath or a simpleton. Apparently they had the same problem in Germany.
@@Nse204 In my job, I can't smile at the people I have in front of me because I am working as an office clerk in the French administration, and my job is to deal with people having professional diseases or accidents in the workplace. If you smile at them when they are explaining you something, they feel that you are joking at them and professionally not serious. My usual lack of expression is my greater asset with this audience, and people feels that, talking with me, they have been listen by someone who were taking their situation seriously. Even if I had to deal with some futile cases, one as recently as this Monday afternoon...
There is a difference between making eye contact and staring. Not making eye contact is not necessarily a shifty thing, it depends on exactly how you do it. It’s more about how fixed your gaze is. If your gaze is constantly shifting up and down and side to side it comes across as being uncertain of yourself. On the other hand if you look at a point either below or above the other person’s eyes, and maintain your gaze at that point consistently, it will not come across as shifty. Looking over their head and will convey belligerence, while looking at the ground will communicate subservience and/or deference. It should be noted that looking at their face below eye level, or their body, will make you look like you’re both attracted to them and, if you never make eye contact, probably a bit creepy too. Your safest bet, if you are uncomfortable making eye contact, is to look between their nose and a point between their eyes, rather than actually looking directly at their eyes. This is close enough to reassure people that you are paying attention to what they’re saying, or that you are confident in what you are saying to them. Most people will probably not even notice you aren’t making direct eye contact. Another trick that might help is to stand further away from them. The distance gives you more personal space which makes the conversation less personal, which can help to reduce any anxiety you might feel in social situations as it makes the interaction more distant and formal.
I live in the Arab world. Though I speak pretty good Arabic, it is usually eventually obvious I'm not native to here. So, I get a little wiggle room for my social awkwardness, since people are considerate and chalk up any odd ways I have to cultural differences. On the other hand, I have picked up certain norms from my time here, with regard to speech and interaction, that make me look a bit strange when I go back to the US. No matter where I am, I've never been that great with eye contact, due to mild autism (which also might be what makes me good at learning Arabic, lol, since I can get obsessively interested in things and learn them quickly).
In a weird way, I think having slight autism helps me adapt to different contexts, because everything and everyone are difficult to understand. I have had to learn to compensate for my lack of social intelligence pretty much everywhere, so I'm used to doing that. I still fuck up, but I think I have managed to learn a lot.
A body language "expert" on TH-cam did a video on the bodycam footage of Gabby Petito as the case was still developing, BEFORE her body was found. In it, said TH-camr kept saying she didn't show typical signs of being abused, and defended the boyfriend (her killer) as being a possible victim of abuse, based on his "defensive" body language. They have since deleted this video, but ever since I have seen everyone in this genre as a hack. Truly disrespectful and vile exploitation of real people for views.
@@subroy7123 It was Observe. He made a post about it on his Community tab, but besides that did not make any more statements. I think he wanted to brush it under the rug as much as possible.
Maybe it's just some confirmation bias -- but most of the arguments against body language seems to actually confirm that there is something behind it, and usually it's the conclusion drawn that's wrong, possibly because of confirmation bias of the observer. I mean, they accurately pointed out that the boyfriend was defensive, and concluded that they were a victim of abuse. Instead, they might have been defensive because they were about to murder the person they were on camera with. That could be completely wrong, though. I'm not overly familiar with the case, was it premeditated?
EXCELLENT!!!! I live in a culture where the common "tell" of "body language experts" of "make direct eye contact at all times" is actually a challenge to a fight
Whenever I see lie detector stuff my first thought is people like myself who have anxiety. We display all these traits in normal conversations, it isn't a sign of lying. Just that we are stressed out
Exactly. I've been trained from a very young age to never display a barrier (such as folded arms) in job interviews and such but anxiety makes me feel icy cold so instead of keeping myself warm by folding my arms I keep them open and instead get a stiff jaw from trying to suppress chattering teeth. Yay.
Technicians who administer the polygraph are fully aware of this and do not “pass or fail” anyone based solely on positive or negative response. Now days it’s primarily used as a way to judge a suspect’s reaction to the test or as leverage. The fact that you think a technician would “fail” you because of your social anxiety is one reason it’s so effective.
When I was researching writing, body language info came in handy for writing stories, but then one of the reading recommendations was a man who described how people spot shoplifters and described the behavior, and I was like “that’s just how a black person goes shopping because we get followed by security or accused of stealing so we try to make ourselves look non-threatening as much as possible”. I’m black and have adhd, so I have a whole list of things I do in public to make myself seem “normal”, and it sucks to know that people take that body language to mean that I’m up to no good. I even got accused of attempting to shoplift the day after Obama got elected. From a store that I spent hundreds of dollars in since it was close to home and school.
Maybe try acting as you normally would, being innocent and genuine comes off just as that. You over compensating shows them you have some reason to. It’s all about the vibe you give, that’s what people pick up on no matter your intent or race.
That's absolutely cooked, sorry you have to experience that. But you're spot on- I have ADHD and probably seem like I'm lying all the time, especially when people think I'm lying about things that are a result of my ADHD
@@claydavisfromjewmanjiwitht8169 "See, it's actually your fault people assume you're guilty, because there is no reason you'd do that without being guilty, like you just explained."
@@claydavisfromjewmanjiwitht8169 The whole reason Black people have to act differently in the first place is because when they went around behaving normally, they were falsely accuse more than white people. The accusations came first, not the difference in behavior
My sister convinced her 4 year old daughter that a cross would appear on her forehead whenever she lies. So now, when my niece tells a lie, she puts her hand on her forehead so that my sister can't see the cross. I'd say that's a pretty good non-verbal cue for lying.
I swear. The only things these behaviors are an indication of, and this is purely in the context of them being atypical of the person demonstrating them, is that something is off. The whole "this feels kinda weird" situation. That's it. Going from there is a sea of endless possibilities. I definitely have had some weird fidget behaviors that someone thought was an indication of me lying to them. The actual reason was because something I ate was giving me horrible runs and abdominal pain, which made me uncomfortable that entire day. I am also really glad you called out JCS. I could never stand those videos because of the erroneous assumptions. All police intimidation tactics do is enact intimidation. They absolutely do not increase the "telling signs" of anything. Wow, being an intimidating prick makes people more uncomfortable, that's so insightful! What a genius. Whereas, in reality, there are numerous examples of how these intimidation tactics end up making innocent people more likely to lie and give in in order to escape the intimidation. It is complete nonsense.
I'm studying Speech and Language Therapy, and it angers me so much when people try to analyze non verbal communication across the internet- from people they've NEVER MET. Just 😶
Had to take lie detection test as part of my parole, unfortunately that is given way more credibility than it deserves. Had to spend a few nights in jail for being “untruthful”. Never lied once especially about what they said I did. Ridiculous! And I had to pay this “expert”.
Sounds like how my last gf operated. Acting as if she was a walking lie detector. Always accusing me of lying and cheating when i was not doing either. The system doesn't give AF about the truth, they just want bodies to feed the prision industrial complex
It is possible to interact with traumatic memories without being immediately triggered. These "body language experts" don't know shit. Like, I can talk about traumatic events with friends and normally be relatively chill. I keep the experience at arm's length by framing it in a more conceptual way and not directly touching the memory. It becomes a list of facts about the event. That changes if I'm actually triggered and am re-experiencing the event.
I'm a mental health counselor and I think one of the biggest misconceptions modern mental health culture has spread is that any event that could be considered traumatic will have a lasting negative effect on someone or that all reactions to traumatic events are near incapacitating or that someone gets triggered by anything which might remind them of a traumatic event regardless of context. I have my own trauma, but most of the times when I'm "triggered" I feel a little uncomfortable or at worst start getting anxious. I work with clients with PTSD every day and there are plenty of clients whose symptoms are very disruptive and need a lot of help, but I tthink social media has made it seem like everyone with PTSD is completely at the mercy of their trauma which I think is very unhelpful for everyone.
I've talked about my really bad trauma like I was telling someone what I ate for breakfast lmfao. and they replied by saying how fucked up the thing that happened was. And I never really processed that until that moment. Like trauma is SO COMPLEX its so gross to try and define human behaviors into such rigid "explanations"
@@teratsukielizabeth543 Oh yes! When you don't have the context you can't really notice how messed up something was. It changes your baseline for what's normal. Then someone else mentions it and things click into place.
@@DoggyHateFire I think part of the issue is how it can be inconsistent (at least from the outside). I can manage fine in most circumstances, and can talk about traumatic events without too much difficulty (as long as I'm careful). But I also have generalized anxiety, and a hell of a time sleeping or otherwise relaxing in a space unless I've made it secure. Hearing my upstairs neighbor walk around at night can cause a panic attack & keep me from sleeping. So externally the trauma isn't obvious, but internally it can still have a significant negative effect on quality of life.
@@DoggyHateFire Actually this is the reason i didn't think i should see someone and get diagnosed, because i wasn't easily triggered, or if i was for the most common cases, i could calm down in a few hours. Wasn't until i had another incident and .. i guess reviewed how i reacted to the situation that i actually got a diagnoses and some help. Probably would have been able to handle that incident if i hadn't been poisoned with the idea that because i can talk about my trauma with friends and not be triggered, that it wasn't "good enough" for ptsd.
Body language 'science' is pop psychology's way of criminalizing divergence. Human behavior is complicated, anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to sell you something.
general mannerisms are observable to some degree, to claim their is absolute no validity to that level of observation, is braindead fallacious and ultimately a straw man
This is completely anecdotal, but an apt example I think. I’m Indigenous American (Dakota from South Dakota), to us, eye contact with someone of authority is considered disrespectful. Even now, at 28 y/o, it still gives me anxiety to look certain people in the eyes, but I do it anyway because I know it’s what people expect. If a detective were to detectivize me, I would most likely appear to nervously avoid eye contact out of guilt.
There are other societies, for example in West Africa, where this is also the case. Similar thing in my mind is cultural differences on how firm your handshake should be. Also, ❤ for "detectivize".
when I was a child, I couldn't look people in the eye, like physically I couldn't make contact. I'd look from one eye to the other, or stare at the ground to hide it, it was weird. Lasted about three years. Nobody ever said a word to me about it. It was awful though. I would have been OK in any society, I looked at nobody lol.
Im neurodivergent and have a similar problem and it sucks. People probably think im disrespectful or shy. Im neither of these, i just dont like eye contact/cant hold it for very long.
I love watching the police interview videos with a narrator picking apart the suspect’s nonverbals and what it all means and how it guides the detective’s “gut” and blahblahblah and all I can think is that this must be how innocent people end up in prison.
That’s honestly exactly how it’s done. You’d think an innocent person would never admit to a crime they didn’t do, or need a lawyer present, but the reality is cops, during the interrogation process, will keep you for hours upon hours, breaking you down mentally to manipulate you into confessing to a crime you did not commit. During this process they’ll hold your freedom over your head, “if you admit to this we’ll let you go home”. JCS specifically has given way to much credit to cops “interrogation methods”. As if each question or act is a specific and highly trained method in the police force. These types of videos sort of push the narrative that if you just have good vibes (which is different for every person) then you’ll be fine.
@@rb8566 as cynical as I am on the JCS videos even I have to admit that there’s a couple of gems in there, for reasons other than “interview tactic analysis.” Jeff the heroin addict is legitimately amazing and the Stephen McDaniel video was hilarious on multiple levels (as hilarious as something can be that involves a murder, anyway). The thing I don’t understand about most of the other ones where there was a lot of actual evidence to make it a slam dunk case was… why even bother with the mind game BS? If there’s overwhelming evidence to show guilt and it does not matter what they say why even try? For sport? The only interview I saw that made any sense was the guy in Florida who shot a black man over a parking spot, but even then no wizardry was involved… the detectives asked questions, the shooter answered the questions, the shooter went to jail.
@@Nocturnalux Most of these things are just signs that a person is under stress, and then pretending there's NO REASON an innocent person would ever be stressed, which seems... not unrelated to this. 😐
A situation where I'm judged for every single move absolutely fucking terrifies me. I'm autistic and I already use a lot of brain power to seem "natural". But it's obviously not perfect. And I deal really badly with being accused of sth I haven't done, I start crying from the pressure and people assume I'm crying because I'm guilty. I hope I will never have to deal with police or security.
I really hope you'l never get into a situation like that. I have it pretty easy in comparison, though I'm playing with my hands and fidgeting a lot, which also sometimes leads to people thinking I'm nervous, when it's something I actually do most when I'm alone and not have to worry about anyone judging me for it :(
Same here. If I ever was interrogated I'd literally have to be like "FYI I'm autistic and I want a lawyer". I know I don't *need* to disclose but I feel like it.. Might.. Help? As long as the cops aren't horrible people. So very scary
i love watching jcs criminal psychology daily as a reminder to NEVER TALK TO THE COPS EXCEPT TO ASK FOR A DAMN LAWYER THE COPS ARE NOT ON YOUR SIDE *EVER*
It’s so crazy when this is used for people in court or accused of a crime. “Oh they’re fidgeting and not making eye contact” well, their future is being determined by strangers. They are literally about to find out if they might be removed from their lives and loved ones-would they not be nervous? Is that what we call guilt now? Not to mention this just doesn’t work for some people. Everyone is pointing out neurodivergent people, but I’m not neurodivergent and I’m absolutely terrible at eye contact. When I meet new people I often don’t even know what they looked like because I’ll look over their shoulder or at the ground. Am I suspicious? No I’m just awkward
@@annalivingtv 'baseline' is something we all use all the time. It's how we can tell if our spouse is upset, if our colleague is out of sorts. We compare their current behavour to their usual behaviour. Saying it has 'no effect' just doesn't make sense.
Eh, there's also Amber, there was Gabby Petito (yes, there were "body language experts" that claimed the police body cam video proved SHE was the abuser, they later removed the video) and I'm sure there will be other women that will become their targets.
Don’t forget Amber Heard. I saw a picture of her holding her daughters hand while on a stroll and the body language experts said that it was a sign she was abusing her toddler because she’s not letting the child move freely on the side of the road. They also said because Amber was standing up straight (as opposed to stooping or crawling beside her daughter???) because she was trying to establish dominance over the child and instill fear in her
@@Maialeen I used to think Amber Heard is the pure villain in this situation…until I found out Johnny’s lawyer cheated on her husband with Johnny Depp. Now I don’t know who should I root for anymore.
@@nont18411 She met Johnny while she was married, I don't know if they were doing stuff during that, but the Lawyer and her husband are in the middle of a divorce.
A lot of the behaviour they try to assimilate with lying is actually more likely to be a sign of discomfort. "Turtling", avoiding eye contact, crossing your arms, etc In university my professors would often think I was hiding mistakes from them when I was just genuinely nervous about presenting my work, and so they'd grill me trying to find my lie. It was exhausting.
Exactly as someone with horrible social anxiety I’m constantly fidgeting and stuttering/slurring when talking to people I’m not overly familiar with (and even sometimes with people I am familiar with) if a “body language expert” looked at me for even a second I’d be marked as a chronic liar and or serial killer
@@kendallchaos I just replied to another comment about this, but, again, this seems to confirm that there's something behind body language. I have issues with anxiety and fitting in for a couple different issues growing up. If you look at my body language, you can almost always tell when I'm uncomfortable. The issue comes in when people make the leap that "uncomfortable == guilty" Meaning that the issue comes in when people take observations and then apply their own belief on top of it as to what the observation means
@@kenjyn76 that's the whole problem with it dude, idk what you're trying to accomplish with all these comments, everyone's behaviorial patterns are different, that's it. There's no way to objectively "read" someone, even lie detectors are unreliable
I always wondered how these things could even be practically applicable tho because most ppl do some things mentioned by body language experts that too for different reasons and not just one.i thought may be i am missing something that these people were seeing. But its pretty hard to keep a track of all this in a quick communication, you d have to train yourself to observe a lot and while observation is useful, applying it to body language/microexpressions feels like it would take off our attention from more different verbal and other cues that are a lot more important and are more clearly communicating the things than just body language and microexpressions (eg.when serial killers are pulling out a gun/while a person is having a panic attack n needs help while you are focused on their microexpressions, since i feel like it would need excessive concentration on face alone while having to sacrifice our attention to other important things, seeing how many times ppl that attempt to analyze the microexpressions have a super zoomed in image/video of the person they are assessing, irl most ppl dont stand that near a person enough to see that much facial detail and it seems a lot easier to pay attention to just their bodys movement (when they try to pull out a gun) and actions, regular expressions (angry expression) ,vocal cues (like angry raised voice) to see if you are in danger over paying attention to a serial killers microexpressions. it d also be intimidating to stare at ppl that much for microexpressions which might make em even more anxious/uncomfortable,nervous,angry and so on. And the licking your lips thing could mean you are dehydrated/your need more lip balm/your lips are dry hence some ppl have habit of licking their lips.. Same with starting the sentence from well/honestly like lot of ppl say that just out of habit even when they arent lying, some ppl may also use "well" Too calm the situation down when theres an argument going on.. So how are ppl going to distinguish things from so many different reasons until they even know the person.. I have seen ppl criticize amber Heard and meghan markle simply because of their body languages while not even mentioning things shes done logically but since i didn't care to look up much about them it made it easier to differentiate the difference between their actions vs just criticizing them for their behavior and body language. Now do i support these ppl? No do i think they are innocent, No (atleast for amber heard, if not for meghan since i know even less about her).. But does that mean it serves any one well to exaggerate someones guilt because of body language and then just that as an excuse to hate on someone for stress relief? I doubt it, its just bad for our own mental health, blood pressure while we look like mindless, uncivilized ancient angry mobs that attack anything that they find "looks wrong" even if the person that all this is directed towards is wrong, even if its ted bundy its better to criticize his actions and clear behavior than just hating/considering ppl guilty based on body language alone because then you are basically spreading the misconceptions about body language, which causes society to make an habit of slander, accuse ppl without proof or any other reasoning. It is possible that one knows an individuals behavior/verbal/in rare cases body language patterns because you know theirs but thats not applicable universally and it should still be used with grain of salt because different things can happen for different reasons even for the same person. other wise it can definitely break current or future relationships that one would have had if they had just tried not to judge ppl by their body language alone before actually trying to get to know them without all that in mind. Its pretty sad that this can heavily impact how ppl percieve other people and behave with them and their relationships. Your story and many other ppls including video finally made me realize that i am not the odd one out when i find body language and micro expression videos confusing and not very practically applicable irl. All this is also being taught to cops and regular ppl ,which means that they can catch and accuse wrong ppl when letting the real perps ppl go simply because they didn't match their expectations of microexpressions/ body language of a perp/i.e "didnt look guilty" And isnt that why ppl that are considered good looking/normal looking get away with being accused of a crime, while people think that the person that that doesn't suit their aesthetic preference might be bad when that's not always the case and may lead to false accusations. 😓 I wanted to see perspectives of both sides too tho so i found this and the person is kinda politely, comedically but passive aggressively angry about it because according to him he was taken out of context and if thats true then understandably so but apart from all the that etc after seeing both of these videos i think some things mune cats and this following video both somewhay agree on despite having different opinions is that most ppl arent trained to do the body language reading properly, and many ppl that copy it from TH-cam make mistakes in applying it practically, and many other ppl even misuse it themselves. Link to video by shake th-cam.com/video/AE7rb7pymvs/w-d-xo.html So tho i think i ll have to articulate all my thoughts later to make a conclusion of my own since both their videos are long together to think about, some of what i understand is that if ppl without any successful experience/knowledge/practice in this ever want to try this practically irl and still see if it works for them since many ppl even without scientific evidence want to try it,they ll first have to differentiate deceptive channels from non deceptive ones and then actually learn it than just pointing out one one or two things without considering the context/persons personality (which many ppl do) and not do it if they are as good as applying it practically as some ppl that may be a little genuine are. And even then know that they could be wrong so not just use it randomly in relationship/investigation for accusing ppl without proof. Its not like reading basic body language is false like you can many times tell if someone's angry,sad,uncomfortable from their body language and behavior but it needs to be used with multiple different things from context,voice, personality, expressions and not just body language alone but you need to know that even if you can read basic stuff, if you arent related to the reason they are displaying the emotions or already know, you wont always accurately guess the reasons and even if you were correct at times,one can be wrong at other times. Hence its not as easy/supernaturally accurate/uncommon as ppl make it seem,we all use basic body language in our lives but ppl cant always use it with enough accuracy to use it in investigation/spot detection all the time, hence ppl do need a balance and know where their deductions can be right or wrong and where theres a room for error in their presumptions.
That's why the baseline, that thing that munecat claims isn't a thing, exists. Also, to correct you, they're not claiming these things to be signs of lying, they're claiming them to be possible indicators of deception. Deception can be subconscious.
It's remarkable how they take the normal things people do when they're stressed and decide it's actually deception. I do all this shit when I'm in a stressful conversation and I'm not lying, I'm just flustered
Many of them don’t, and they even specifically make a point of trying to seek out various baselines to compare with, and repeatedly saying that it takes clusters of indicators outside the norm of their baseline and things that aren’t happening at random intervals due to nerves or something like that. They also go out of their way to make clear that it’s not an exact thing and there’s obviously no way they can know for sure from just watching videos. And they often will not necessarily point it out as deception anyway, just something to note. Some of them might be shitty but there are some non-shitty ones, too.
Yeah, but people tend to be more stressed when trying to deceive. Obviously, if the conversation itself was already to be kinda stressful, it's not enough to look at body language, but if someone came up to me to tell me something super casual and was shaking all the way through, I'd think something was up, ya know?
@@radiofloyd2359 it's very dependant on the person- a big problem with the topic is overgeneralization, making it seem like this is how *everyone* acts when they're lying, and not just some people who happen to have those traits when they do lie. it's like saying that everyone who has a runny nose definitely has the flu, without acknowledging all the other reasons why you could have one.
"body language experts" are why i hate conversations. If I'm actively responding appropriately to conversation, I'm invested in conversation. it doesn't matter which way my body is facing, or how i'm fidgeting, or if i'm making eye contact. like damn leave me alone, let me be autistic in peace
I'm NOT neurodivergent, and i exhibit "telltale signs" of lying in normal conversations all the time. From posture, to sitting or standing position, to eye focus. It's mostly about what is physically comfortable to me at the time, what i'm focusing on, etc. It has nothing to do with the truth or lack thereof in regards to the conversation.
It's kinda terrifying to me how easy it is for people to be misread as "deceptive" or "suspicious" simply for being anxious and/or socially awkward. Combined with the fact that it's not exactly unheard of for innocent people to get locked away for years on almost no evidence, and yeah, just think about the fact that someone's life could be ruined because they were anxious around authority figures and people decided that meant they were guilty of a crime. That's fun 🙃
@Ronnie and I I'm so sorry to hear that happened to you. People suck sometimes. I'm glad you have your pets, they can really be a lifesaver. I have a dog and a cat too, they mean the world to me.
@Ronnie and I I know what you mean, the world seems to be going to hell in a handbasket these days. My mom always says "the pendulum always swings the other way eventually" and I sure hope she's right. My dog Brèagha (bree-a) is a Border Collie, she's 5 now and I've had her since she was 8 weeks old. I can't even explain how special she is to me, she is truly my soulmate. My cat Cornifer I just got last week, but he is already my son haha! He is an orange tabby kitten that was living with his mom and siblings in the woods behind a dentist place. Fortunately they all found homes now. I feel like my little fam is complete now, a cat and a dog.
Also, there have been political, famous, rich people who literally pay someone to coach them how not to look guilty. So that is even further reason this shit isn't even fair.
Always infuriates me that being defensive is considered suspicious. Even just saying "if you were innocent you wouldn't be so defensive" like what the hell? Have they ever been accused of something they have never done?
Innocent people have died because they were "anxious" around a badge. Getting locked away and losing the right to vote and losing the ability to get a decent job; that's the "good" outcome.
I remember watching "Lie to Me" with my dad and he told me during the episode how he has been learning a lot from it. He said, "For example, right now I can tell that you're anxious because you're touching your nails" and I said, "No, I'm touching them because they feel smooth" 😅
pathologizing every little behavior in people is so dangerous, this kind of crap is why people get mad at someone for 'staring' at them when you're sitting across from them and vaguely looking over their shoulder because you're zoned out. It's not that serious kids.
And why do people like to touch smooth things? Because it's satisfying? Because its....comforting? And when you're anxious you're uncomfortable and so you seek comfort. It's not science, it's just human nature, common sense AND some context.
@jennapeneueta-snyder200 It really wasn't that deep. I'm not feeling particularly anxious or uncomfortable sitting on the couch watching TV with my dad.
@@jennapeneueta-snyder200no, we just like how they feel. I'm always touching my fave or hair. Not because im anxious, but because I have ADHD and will subconsciously clean myself regardless of mental state. I also constantly hum, shake my head, and tap my fingers. None of these are conscious behaviors, and they all happen regardless of my mood or whether or not I'm lying. Every behavior associated with lyinh in body language analysis is also a common way for neurodivergent people to stim.
@@jennapeneueta-snyder200 I mean... my leg keeps tapping the ground whenever I'm focused, unless I stop it from doing it, which means I'm not focused. It bring me no comfort, and it's annoying as f*ck on the rare occasions it breaks my focus in long design sessions. On that note, me getting the zoomies when I worked back in McD in my late teens must have meant that I was anxious about telling customers the BigMac costs 4$ which in turn means I've always lied about the prices of things!
i tend to uncontrollably laugh hard when upset and unconsciously smile at basically every emotion, it’s led to a lot of ppl not taking me seriously or even getting mad thinking im making fun of them when really im just scared/nervous
My go to coping mechanism for stressful situations is extremely bad jokes. These can rage from terrible puns, to sexual obscenities, to the sorts of jokes that would be considered too low blows for an episode of South Park. I also get really bad cases of what I have dubbed funeral giggles. It's like there only so much stress my brain can take before I need to go hyena mode. To outsiders I look like a sociopath but it's just how I survive: that which doesn't kill you leaves you with a fucked up sense of humor.
!!! YES. My mom used to get so angry at me and my brother for this exact kind of thing (smiling and laughing when we were in trouble/being yelled at), thinking we were mocking her, and we absolutely were NOT. If anything we were trying to appease her! Body language is so complicated, other than very, VERY broad trends in cultural norms (e.g., how close, say, Germans tend to prefer to have casual face-to-face conversations vs. how close Pakistanis prefer to have the same conversations) it's so hard to figure out what body language is "supposed" to tell us...bc it's such bullshit.
same! recently i almost stabbed myself with a bunch of huge falling kitchen knives (dw abt it) and everyone was like ''wtf why are you laughing its not funny'' and i was just like idk! im actually super stressed!
same. i’ve been accused of lying and it’s like i have this uncontrollable urge to smile/laugh as i try to deny it. so annoying fr. its like my initial response to getting flustered.
I just have a non-academic obsession with linguistics, in particular with the subfield of constructed languages/interlinguistics, and anyone who says linguistics isn't a real science should be sentenced to trying to explain the difference between [ə] and [ʌ] to a class of freshmen.
@@tjenadonn6158 It's honestly far more of an art form than a science. You just need to understand what science is to see why considering it science is a bigger joke than considering Economics science.
I was thinking about this all the time! How this "telling" gestures could just be the product of someone being neurodivergent - among a lot of other things, of course, but it does not seem to take into account that possibility at all
Literally every time I see these body language things, they talk about avoiding eye contact, fidgeting and having an unusual gait. You couldn't target autistic people with more precision if you tried!
@@sofiipote7 I had seen on Tumblr a post with a huge list of supposed "signs" of lying that were actually common behaviours for neurodivergent people and it's incredibly terrifying how many of them there are.
this is exactly why i don’t like it! it’s not that i’m avoiding your eyes and fidgeting because I’m lying, it’s because i’m autistic. i’ve had so many people accuse me of lying about something or being untrustworthy because of my autistic traits that it’s not even funny anymore.
Offset your carbon footprint on Wren: www.wren.co/start/munecat/
The first 100 people who sign up will have 10 extra trees planted in their name!
the carbon dioxide/global warming focus over traditional environmental preservation is a ploy by megacorporations so they can rape our world to death without the people minding
no but the carbon footprint was made to shift blame from oil companies to us
ahh to be enlightened with the facts good video so far!
so whats the real way too read peoples emotions?
aside from obvious body language
Carbon footprint is a myth invented by oil companies to put the blame on individuals instead of corporations.
At 28:50 - isn’t that the "What Is A Woman" guy Matt Walsh?
I'm no body language expert, but if someone is fidgeting after sitting for a long time, or if they're touching their face during a police interview, it's probably because they're being questioned by the police
Or because they are bored from the long waiting.
Or they gotta pee
Or meth. It could always be meth.
And because they keep the rooms uncomfortably hot or cold with equally uncomfortable chairs
That's the only body language expertise I'm comfortable with, the captain obvious variety. "I can tell by their pacing that they are in fact wearing shoes" style.
How to talk to cops in 2 easy steps:
1) Ask for a lawyer.
2) Shut the hell up.
Specifically invoke your right to stay silent and the right to representation. "I want a lawyer" not "I think I want a lawyer" or "Can I talk to my lawyer."
@@Somtaaw7 Munecat lives in the UK where the pigs say this when they arrest you:
"You do not have to say anything. But it may harm your defence if you fail to disclose something you later rely on in court."
What should I say with my body?
What about my eyes?
what about my hips?
@@Tasmantor Shakira, Shakira...
You forgot Parts 3 and 4
Don't run from them and sure as shit don't attempt to fight them even if you have weapons.
"Why is this guy so nervous?" - Cops while holding a man against his will in a blank interrogation room and in an uncomfortable chair while they try to put him in jail for his entire life. While they intentionally try to intimidate him.
"HE MUST BE LYING!" The Sherlock Holmes of the police department.
Cops are horrible at reading body language
You see this a lot when people are nervous and cops say "why would you be nervous we're the police".
Like practically majority of the riots that have happened in the US haven't been because of police brutality?
Anyone ever get nervous when walking past police in public? Not done anything wrong, and there's no reason they'd have a problem, just the police are near 😅
@@coolbanana165 well no because there's no reason to be unless you live in a corrupt neighborhood, I walk by rangers and police in my country doing weird stuff not illegal thou, and nothing happens, Americans just have fear of everything tbh
@@exiledkenkaneki701 yeah because american police are well known for being really calm and collected
He moved a lot, that means he's lying.
He didn't move at all, that means he's lying.
He moved a normal amount, that means he's lying.
Exactly. Body Language Experts can *always* find something to say anything. So, if they want you to be lying, then you are. If they want you to be telling the truth, then you are.
The Depp/Heard trial was an absolute morass of these people pretending like they knew exactly what happened behind closed doors because they did not like Heard's face, and Depp "seemed trustworthy." Drove me crazy. I would watch stuff to see legal analysis, because the case was *really* strange legally, but it turns out that almost all of the lawyers commenting on it were hacks who would do crap like pretend they could read everyone's minds.
I can tell by her body language that she is lying in her title, but nice try
@@Caelinus nothing made me angrier than people saying she was lying because she was crying when she was recounting abuse & had been hounded by the entire internet and basically blacklisted from her work for several months at that point. i cry when i stub my toe like if i was her id be hysterical but somehow this is proof of her being a charlatan?
No single behavior is indicative of deception, and anyone who tells you otherwise doesn't know what they're talking about. Body language isn't an exact art, if it can be called that, but absolutely is a real thing. people have communicated non-verbally for the whole of their existence, just like every other animal, so to say it's nonsense makes absolutely no sense at all. However, there are idiots online and myths people fall for.
@@nickydaviesnsdpharms3084 There is no science to how people react to situations. Everyone reacts the same. There is no "right" was to mourn for example. Yet if a parent is holding their own when a child goes missing, must mean they harmed their kid, for example. We aren't saying nonverbal communication doesn't exist. Of course it does. They are saying reading it as a science to prove whether or not someone is lying is akin to using a lie detector test. I mean all that does is look at your heart rate and pulse and decide if you're lying. So if you wouldn't trust a lie detector then you prob shouldn't trust a body language expert. There are many studies proving body language reading is not accurate. Police use body language as an excuse to be racist and shoot black people. So no body language reading should not be promoted or supported. However, there are idiots online and myths people fall for.
When I was a kid I went to see a storyteller perform. He told us this riddle about a man who suspected his neighbor of stealing something. The man watched his neighbor all day and the neighbor walked suspiciously, talked suspiciously, moved suspiciously, and even ate his dinner suspiciously. However, the next day, the man found the item that was “stolen” sitting right where he’d left it two days earlier-it had never been stolen, he’d just misplaced it. The question was, if the neighbor hadn’t done anything wrong, why had he acted and moved so suspiciously for the whole day?
The answer was that the neighbor acted suspiciously because the man was suspicious of him. The neighbor hadn’t been moving, walking, talking, or eating suspiciously. He had been behaving normally and the man interpreted it as suspicious because it confirmed what he already suspected.
Idk I just think that’s relevant!
100% this. If you've ever spent any time in the "true crime" community (actually just drama and misinformation), then you will have experienced this behavior from "creators" quite often. Innocent people are regularly demonized and harassed in that space.
Or the neighbour seen this man constantly watching him and was fearing for his life.
@@elizsoleil252 True crime community?
Confirmation bias.
That is a pretty good explanation if how body language "experts" operate
I just want to see two body language experts debate each other and analyse each other's body language in real time.
😂😂😂
i think you just pitched a solid comedy skit
haha
I could see Key and Peele doing this shit.
@@madelineroberts4693 and they both Profile each other for being black.
funny anecdote: im autistic, and when i was in highschool, i realized that people believed me more often when i lied than when i told the truth, so i started using the same kind of acting techniques to tell the truth, ergo faking the facial expressions that other people seemed to expect for a given situation. it actually worked. and with that newfound power i became an amazing liar because i basically acted the same way when lying or when telling the truth. (i kept winning at werwolf which is kinda like town of salem)
that only lasted for a little while because i became struck with ME/CFS and the 24/7 brainfog means i can't keep two versions of a story in my head anymore simultaneously, i don't play werwolf anymore, but it was a fun few years
Masking. Effective but exhausing :(
(Takes notes.)
oh my god this,, it just never clicked until now gottdam thanks youtube comments
The way I relate to this so hard damn 💀
I've been accused of lying to my school psychologist about why I didn't show up to one of the gifted kids meetings they made us do in our school because I was fidgeting and didn't look her in the eye while talking. I'm autistic. Nobody ever bothered to test me because of my good grades and I hit severe burnout in my first semester of college. Had to drop out. I was punished multiple times by that lady and many others for just being who I am.
Hope you're doing better now, I'm sorry you had to go through that
Me too! My eyes moved around the room when I was put in uncomfortable situations, had to write that teacher a 100 word letter… about my eyes moving, no one taught me eye movement was considered eye rolling to neurotypicals . And then I started being accused and laughed at by medical professionals for “drug seeking behaviours” (I really just asked for help in a blunt way and they made so many assumptions which scares people from trying to get help again😢)
Bro same! I'm autistic and was never tested until I had already burnt out in highschool because I was "gifted". When I'm stressed I look at the floor and shut up and I barely have control over it. It's gotten me in trouble with adults before because they assume I'm ignoring them or being uncooperative, even after my diagnosis. I had a teacher threaten to "take the next step" whatever the hell that meant once when I was having a breakdown at a school audition because she wanted to go home and wasn't allowed to leave until all the students were gone (even though there were several other students and a handful of other staff left and I was in the process of calming down and she made it worse). Before that she said that if I didn't look her in the eyes she'd leave and not come back. She'll usually be nice but has no empathy for any of her students when they actually need help. My friend, sibling, and I lost all remaining respect for her that day. This wasn't the first time she'd treated me horribly for having a breakdown (the previous year she threatened to kick me out of the opening scene if I didn't get on stage by the time they started even though we'd learned that scene and had done it several times so missing one run through wouldn't change anything), but this was the first time she'd threatened to (assumedly) call the cops or something. As if that would call anyone down. This was before I was diagnosed with autism, but after I got a 504 and IEP for my severe anxiety and depression. So it's not like she didn't know I had mental troubles and wasn't just doing this to be a piece of shit to her. Sorry for the rant. I don't think I'll ever be able to forget that interaction.
You know, it’s funny that in 4 years of university for psychology and criminology, we never learned of this ‘body language’ science as a viable option. It more often came up in wrongful conviction cases.
hi Amanda!!
I don't even know who you are
@@thewizard1 and no one care to know you. Weird to even comment
@@thewizard1 congratulations? She's lovely btw
Same! Only i was doing psychology, no criminology. Maybe the body language classes are offered at a super special university that no body has heard of and is invite only? 🤔🤷♀️ Lol 😆
I want a reality show where so-called body language experts analyse each other. Seems like a lot of fun.
Death Note but without the murder
THIS
Genius.
House full of body language experts, but one is secretly just some guy. They have to body language out who the faker is but plot twist they are all fakers because they are body language experts
I'd buy THAT for a dollar
If I was famous and found a video about me from a body language expert, I'd pay another body language expert to make a video going over that expert's body language.
Then I'd pay another one to go over the previous one. I'd do this until I have a full circle of body language experts going over each other's body language and see what kind of chaos it causes.
The last video is the last guy getting analyzed by a school bus, and then you drive away with all the money.
@@eyesofthecervino3366 “No, no, no… I analyze the bus driver.”
Infinite regression by quantic
@@BaphometGaming69incredible
"Body language expert reacts to body language experts reacting to body language expert react to-..."
I just want to say that I have NEVER seen a "body language expert" say they they suspected someone was guilty but the body language cleared them.
Yeah 🤔
I’ve never seen a body language expert in real life. I think it’s just weird dudes online with opinions that need excuses to justify hypothetical evidence
@@L______llllIIIIII have. They’re more gray than blue. But they’re very large.
Observe has done this. It's gone both ways.
@@bourdeaux35 I've had a good amount of people irl say they are body language experts. Of course they're just people who think they have a super power and are running on some god complex. SMh it's such a trap for overthinking normal actions. Like my feet aren't turned away from you because I don't want to talk to you, I'm just more comfortable positioning myself this way. If my whole body is turned away from you then yeah... that's obvious.
Makes me think about how all the “signs” that someone is lying are just things people do when anyone is afraid that they wouldn’t be believed, regardless of whether they’re telling the truth or not
Yeah, and also how some people just do those things whenever, without the action being connected to a certain emotion
Yah it wasn't the serial killings of 50 people that got them diagnosed with ASPD...it was the fact they crossed their arms 🤦🏻♀️
Or they do them because they are nervous... or shy.... or because they have a fucking cramp. Could literally be anything
this is exactly it. i've been accused of lying plenty of times when i was just nervous or upset or desperately trying to convince someone that i actually WAS telling the truth. funny thing is, these same people can't tell when i'm actually lying because i know how to disguise my body language. that's something they don't really take into account. a good liar isn't going to look nervous. someone just nervous and telling the truth IS going to look nervous.
This has happened to me and it's infuriating. Walked into the kitchen, asked if my roommates wanted some of my food. They all start laughing at me. I'm like ok, weird. Go to my room, then roommates come in one by one telling me what a terrible person I am that I told some boys my best friend had sex with her ex. So, I get really upset and say that's nonesense and they are saying that it's true because I got angry and I wouldn't get angry if I was telling the truth. Later, my best friend came in and I asked her "do you really believe I said that? I don't even know these boys. When would I have even done that?" She believed me then
they're always like "this person being recorded and in a public speaking situation seems nervous. the only reason i can think of for this is that they are LYING"
I didn't cry when my mom died. People don't understand grief, and assume that you HAVE to be a wreck, crying and screaming. Its ridiculous.
That sounds like the Damsel in Distress stereotype!
That was literally part of the sandy hook conspiracy. People were actually finding footage of the parents of murdered children and going "see they aren't crying at this exact moment, they're lying!"
I’ve been to memorial services. There’s basically no way to predict if/when someone totally breaks down. While giving the eulogy? During a song? While everyone is walking out? They’ll be totally stoic then BAM waterworks. Close family may make it through the whole thing, random relatives might fall apart. No way of knowing. Totally unfair to judge them off it.
@@52flyingbicycles I didn't cry about my nan for a year.
Most people don’t act like this. I don’t understand why it’s such a trope. And people expect others to act like that even when they themselves don’t.
I remember when studying psychology in first year a student asked one of the professors how to tell if someone was lying and they responded "The best way is to find out whether the thing they said is true or not"
The same for identifying psychopaths; through their proven actions or lies. I don't know what is unclear about the fact that they are excellent manipulators. People want a checklist of red flags, to spot them during the first encounter.
A question that actually didn't specify body language at all thus the answer didn't have a reference to body language 🤯🤯🤯🤯
There's many methods, my friend had Logic as a discipline on psychology course, it really helped her find out her husband was gaslighting her - by simply following his false conjectures by drawing a logical diagram, where thing A didn't necessarily imply B. Then there's when person says contradictory things. If both things said by a person cannot be true then they ARE lying 100%. Finally, yes, emotion reading helps, if he's telling you he loves you while his face is showing "is she really falling for that" then run away. But of course you can ignore all that and pretend there's no ways to tell a lie because those pesky academics are DARPA shills.)))
@@KasumiRINAtwo out of the three examples you listed pretty much fall under "finding out whether what they said is true or not" lmao
"The best way is to find out whether the thing they said is true or not"
People just want a short cut.
Gotta love the profound insight of "an old lady who just lost her husband of over seventy years is heartbroken at his funeral".
That's the thing: when body language "experts" aren't saying things that are completely baseless and batshit based on nothing they're spouting banalities that anyone who ever spent time with humans could tell you. It's like going to a doctor because you can't stop vomiting and getting diagnosed as nauseous.
i read that as "husband of over sweaty years"
i really liked the man standing behind the cashier with no items nervously looking at it... who could've ever guessed his intentions?
LMAO ikr like??? i guess they really thought they did something there
@@dklee.01 when you're a professional bullshitter such as a "body language expert", it's a good idea to pepper in a couple of obvious truths alongside the nonsense-one thing about human behaviour that _has_ been empirically demonstrated, is that we're generally more likely to accept ideas or statements (irrespective of veracity) that are delivered alongside/nested within statements that _are_ true (or at least, are believed to be). like "two truths and a lie", although it's usually more like two truths and _ten_ lies.
My grandmother was accused of murder by the doctors on scene when they arrived to pronounce my grandfather dead. It was later proven it was a simple heart attack. Processing trauma is different in everyone and people who aren't completely typical don't deserve punishment for it!
It's common for spousal deaths to be immediately investigated as an unexplained death.
In the Salem Witch Trials, single women that had been able to own their own home, were accused of being witches just for being different. Anything out of the ordinary gets judged harshly, particularly when it involves women.
If this is true your grandmother could have probably sued the doctor for slander or something like that, a doctor can't accuse you of murder on the spot unless they happened to walk in the room as you were stabbing the guy
Nobody deserves punishment for trauma?
@@cosmicreef5858 that's my point, that nobody deserves punishment for that. I'm not implying here that people who do process trauma typically do deserve punishment. What. That's a whole new sentence.
You know, I once got profiled as "suspicious" while going through customs in an airport because I'd just gotten off a 13-hour trans-pacific flight that I hadn't been able to sleep on and was tired and exhausted and couldn't think well enough to answer questions smoothly.
You'd think the staff at an international airport would be used to seeing people worn out from travel, but apparently not.
I think people conflate their own experiences with other people's experiences.
As a person with anxiety and a chronic tic disorder this is terrifying. People have misunderstood my facial tics before without even looking for micro-expressions. I was even flagged once when calling my insurance company because I was soft spoken and said 'umm' too much, so they put me through extra screening to see if I really was who I said I was. It's no wonder I have a fear of authority figures, their misunderstandings could land me in a lot more trouble.
I remember a criminologist said how everyone gets serial killers wrong based on Hollywood's stereotypes
And further said this is why serial killers intentionally kill the poor , minorities and woman especially addicts and ones who work as prostitutes because our society still shows a bias at victims of sex work
And that the stereotype serial killer tropes such as Norman Bates would of stood out and most of them are pretty arrogant and even brag about what they do
It's people like the ones she's speaking on that get it it wrong and why many of them don't get caught until they've killed multiple people because they're looking for the loner nerdy guy instead of the socialite or those in the medical or transportation professions where they can easily travel and not get caught
Locally in my state , they just found a serial killer nurse who was able to go from 5 different nursing homes to kill senior citizens and no one even put it together because how social she was right under their noses
Seriously, I have tourettes, including a winking tic, and a tilting my head. Those get me misunderstood enough, I can't imagine what these "experts" would think of me.
I'd be fascinated playing poker with you.
As someone who constantly fidgets (extreme anxiety means I'm literally never comfortable) I feel you. I'm terrified what will happen to me if I ever get arrested and accused of a crime, because people never believe I'm innocent.
Thank you. This is MUCH needed. The cops who interviewed me about my abuse when I was 9 determined, on body language alone, that I was lying about what happened to me. As a result, my abuser never saw jailtime for what he did to me. No thought perhaps went into the fact that I was 9, scared, cold, in an unfamiliar environment, and talking about the abuse for the first time. I call bullshit on "body language analysis" every time I see it.
Wow. This is beyond horrifying. I am so deeply sorry you have been so incredibly let down by the adults who were supposed to be effing protecting you. I am so sorry.
im so sorry this happened to you
that dude needs to get the chair bro i am so sorry that happened to you
@@spritesensationthat's a bit excessive.
@@derekspringer6448 no the legal system really is that corrupt.
sometimes i wonder how many "body language experts" would clock me as a liar just because i have anxiety lol
A disappointing amount id say.
@@highjumpstudios2384 an unsurprising count at the same time.
Depends on how much they like what you’re saying
same lol
All of them.
Fun thing about the show "Lie to Me" - the premise of the show is that you can tell how someone is feeling *even if they're acting* because they'll give it away with micro expressions -- then each episode they show you slow mo bits of people's faces and point to the signs of their various emotional states - but the people are the actors playing the people being studied - so how did they get those actors to have the right facial expressions in their slow mo scenes? By getting the actors to act. By disproving the very premise of the show, by showing that actors can fake the very expressions the show says can't be faked.
Loved that show, but it did have me almost believing you could read people like that. Amazing fiction, but omg, gotta remember it's fiction.
Yet some are more poker faced than others. Body language is determined by culture as well as emotions and is also peculiar to the individual. I look for changes in somebody's body language once I get to know them rather than their actual body language.
I like that show too..
What's interesting about that is it is actually based on some science but it's not "lying" it's emotional body language, looking up the actual science of micro expressions is really cool and they happen all over the body, but no people aren't lying just because of micro expressions, it just more subtle body language than can help you read the vibes and emotions of people more clearly but that's about it, it's cool though and definitely recommend it.
You can learn about it on TH-cam and the guy who studied it (and inspired the show) Paul Ekman
Fair point! I love that show, and, until watching this video, I'd bought into body language & microexpressions as reliable tools. Can't argue with your logic here, though, or the mounds of research Munecat shared proving otherwise!
Never thought I’d see a grown man look at a camera dead serious and say he worked as a “spy catcher” in the fbi
@keithberjeron763Or he's probably just a liar, and the FBI won't say anything because he's not revealing any actual information.
Agents, even retired, tend to be quite vague about what they did. "I was in the offices."
@keithberjeron763 That's not how evidence works, though. You need a null hypothesis. A baseline "most probable case without evidence". In this case, the random dude talking about pseudoscience is most likely to not be a counterintelligence agency if he's doing a podcast grift where he calls himself a "spy catcher". I wouldn't say impossible, and I get being skeptical, but skepticism without a baseline of assumed truth is just radical denialism.
@@ekki1993 he could've had a minimal role in counter intel like packing evidence or something lol
@@ClemDiamond he stared at the camera too long definitely a sign of deception
@@Sidequest_Jace Yeah, that's what I would bet on if I had to.
being a victim and having people tear apart every single expression, twitch, stutter, and movement to claim you’re lying about your assault/trauma is my worst nightmare.
And sadly we just watched it happen on a global stage!
Hahahahahaha
@@larbot3433 fortunately some of us saw actual lawyers commenting on a certain case, instead of body language experts. they can at least use evidence and their experience to say who seems shady. anyway, at least in the case i am thinking of, the body language experts and the lawyers, seemed to agree ;)
@@ScorpionFlower95 regardless of what these alt right YT lawyers say about the case ,the mere fact that it was heavily publicised and scrutinised is extremely problematic for victims regardless of whether you suspect heard lied about it or not. even if you suspect that heard spent years documenting fake evidence of being abused in the relationship, you don't know for sure that what she said happened didn't happen (how could you, you were not there) and therefore subjecting her to that process is actually fucking awful. awful for victims to think that if they were to ever speak about their experience that the entire planet would attack their clothes, their personality, the way they speak, their movements, etc. while they spoke about being sexually assaulted in front of the entire planet.
@@larbot3433 alt right lawyers? lol, we clearly watched different channels.
"even if you suspect that heard spent years documenting fake evidence of being abused in the relationship, you don't know for sure that what she said happened didn't happen (how could you, you were not there) and therefore subjecting her to that process is actually fucking awful." the 'you were not there argument can be used both ways.
and something else that can also go the other way, is this: when female victims go after their abusers, we cheer them on. but when male victims do it, we say that is inhumane for the abuser? please 🙄🙄
I recall participating in a study once, many years ago, for a research student at the forensic science institute I now am doing my PhD at. They were investigating indicators of lying using a variety of biometrics. It sparked an interest in me, not in body language analysis, but in experimental design because it was so incredibly poor.
They asked a series of questions, asked you to answer some truthfully, some untruthfully, standard stuff. But the "truthful" questions were harmless and easy - what's your name, how old are you? - whereas the the questions you were expected to lie to were accusations of crimes, sometimes very serious ones. With no priming, I went from being "baselined" on questions about my name and age and such, to having to lie to several accusations of crimes (in effect, having to admit to several crimes in sequence, since I was innocent of all of them). Going from truthfully answering "what is your name" to untruthfully admitting to trafficking a large quantity of illicit drugs was so violently unnatural I can't imagine the results were anything within the range of publishable.
Ironically, it made me a better scientist, because it shook me out of the idea that science can really "say" anything. Science is a bunch of people making guesses and checking them, and sometimes they just check them really, really poorly.
Science, at its best, is a process of systemic humility. Most guesses are going to be wrong. And even the best guess that fits the current data may not be completely accurate in the face of future information.
So here's a process to go through all the guesses, compare them, and document them for future scientists to examine. Both for error in substance and in judgment.
I see this a lot too. A lack of time and resources, and/or implicit assumptions about experiments will lead to a form of selection bias. Control conditions are sometimes assumed more than they explored thoroughly, and so comparisons to experiments aren't informative. In the lab, the answer is to explore the control situation thoroughly, then scrap the data if you find a confounding factor and start again. I imagine it's so much harder to handle this when your experiment involves human subjects, because the tight controls mean you might not even get a second pass at refining your survey/test/whatever. You just have to hope you do better next time...
I don't see how they could think that study would work?? Unless I'm misunderstanding the setup.
But if I'm asked to lie and I know you know it's a lie......that's acting not lying.
We all implicitly know there's a difference between acting and lying.
Acting is calm and just takes some mental effort to conjure up a facial expression and tone of voice.
There's no inner workings that correspond.
To lie comes with shortness of breath, rising heartbeat, a sinking/sick/nervous feeling in the pit of your stomach.
I don't know how you could devise a study that would capture those biometric markers. The only thing that makes them rise is wanting to keep the truth hidden either out of fear of punishment or shame of what people will think of you if the truth is known. If I know there's no possibility of either then the questions are just a thought exercise, acting, and there's no true need to lie
@@scroogemcduckismyspiritanimal With as many fingers in the "science" pot as there are you're bound to get some people who totally missed the point. In theory it should be mostly mitigated by peer review, but one of the major problems in "science culture" generally is a *lack of appreciation* for thorough peer review and pressure on everyone to pump more papers out.
@@scroogemcduckismyspiritanimal Lying doesn't necessarily correspond to anything physiological, especially if a person is lying without guilt. Like, if you tell your friend that you like a picture that they posted when you actually don't, how would they know? How _could_ they know?
As a body language expert, you'll notice that the vast majority of body language experts tend to rock back and forth while speaking, which stimulates the anus. This gives them a warm, familial feeling as it brings them back to when they were infants and their caregiver would clean their anus after they made a mess in their diaper.
my body language after reading this: 🙂😀😆😁😂🤣
Thank you so much. I've really learnt a lot today.
It is good I can look to body language experts such as yourself to get insight into this wisdom
@kshamwhizzle ur mom is an underrated comment lololol
@Fundamentally Unorthodox sometimes a cigar is just getting pegged.
1:07:11 I read this as "It will get a confession 85 percent of the time, guilt being irrelevant." It is a psychological torture technique and they will do and say anything to make it stop eventually
this has annoyed me so long and you're the perfect person to *destroy* this with facts and logic
Are we seriously quoting benny boy ? Remember kids facts dont care about your feelings
Bring a bucket and a mop for this wet ass p-word
🐄🐄🐄🐄 tell us where the cow is🐄🐄🐄
cow & cat colab?
The public demands a team up!!!!
Nothing is quite as annoying as having a conversation with someone who is suspicious of you, you telling them the truth, and them looking at you with that confident look people get when they think they've caught you in a lie.
That's what I always imagine with these body language "experts"
But hey, "that confident look people get..." is nonverbal communication you seem to recognize and understand!
My parents would do that a lot in my childhood. “You know how I know that’s a lie? Your eyes drifted up to your left *points with a smile*” Core memories achieved 🎉😢
@@bbyghostie1044 That sucks honestly. My mother would sometimes get mad at me because of my 'tone' and often I didn't understand what was so upsetting about it. My voice just started shaking at one point and that apparently meant I was being angry or something? It's stuck in my mind forever ;-;
@@stuckinneutral3522 see nonverbal communication is real. Some of the "tells" these guys talk about are alright general rules.
Like people can read emotions on a face, especially if you know a person for years of interaction. Humans are 50/50 on telling if someone is lying and if you learn how to tune into the language and actions to figure it out, it probably goes up.
@@bbyghostie1044 I'm really sorry. I had it one time I remember distinctly from a random adult. She accused my cousin and I of vandalism when all we'd done was walk somewhere and then sat in the shallow end of the pool. We told her as much and she acted that way.
It stuck with me forever so I can't imagine how awful parents doing that to you would be. May you unlearn the issues that undoubtedly caused.
Remember when The Daily Mail printed a pic of Kate holding her tummy when pregnant and explaining how it showed how nurturing she was, then a pic of Meghan holding her tummy when pregnant and explaining how it showed how self centred she was? Hooray for body language experts!!!!
When in all actuality, they were just both having some stomach pain, or just liked feeling their baby kicking.
I didn see the pics, but it sounds they were right... 😌😏
@@redrustyhill2they might just really like to hold their hands there... because... pregnancy.
Meghan is horrible though
@@TheSMR1969 irrelevant
Scientists: "This isn't science, this is just bullshit"
Governments and cops: "Well, this bullshit serves me"
A classic
I guess making polygraphs inaplicable in court was exception to the rule
Random people watching: "I think the government and cops are right here."
@@Laurabeck329 LOL. The law in the US is decided by the whims of whatever people took enough bribes to get onto the Supreme Court. Quite a lot of "evidence" admissible in court is utter bull, but stays that way because out country is a joke
As an autistic person who regularly does a lot of the things these people say indicates lying and guilt, I'll have you know I am, in fact, always lying and have, in fact, committed all the crimes. /s
Edit: For the people saying they look for a baseline; I am an extremely anxious person. I distinctly remember one time at work where someone stole something, and I spent 3 hours panicking. I was not acting like my baseline. I hadn't left my area at all since it had last been accounted for and had witnesses to this. I clearly didn't steal it, and no one would think I had except that I started having a panic attack that I would found out (for a crime I didn't commit). This is something I do often; worry about being guilty of things I obviously hadn't done. So I act like a guilty person.
Oh shit I laughed too hard at this 😂 thanks 🖤
Honestly I do this shit constantly. I hope to god no one ever uses this on me, maybe I just don't want to make eye contact because it is EVIL
The lip licking and hesitation ones especially kill me. I have dry lips and often struggle immediately to not stumble over my words in conversation, hence the two responses.
And I thought I was the only one committing all the crimes...
be quet! they will come for us and will see who really rules the world
Not to vent but I had parents who believed in body langauge & that caused them to accuse me of lying whenever my siblings did something because when they "interogated" us I was always the most nervous. (I'm autistic. I was nervous because they were interrogating me. I was stimming to regulate.) Which just led them to give an excuse to abuse me lol.
Seriously. Fuck "Body language".
Honestly, that's just a thing all parents do at least once in their children's life. Most parents that I've heard doing this always say that they just know because they are the parent. Whatever reason they give, it is just an excuse. If your parents didn't believe in the body language thing, they probably would've said something about their intuition.
I'm so sorry they treated you that way. I hope you're healing.
It's so ableist. You're not alone.
I'm so sorry this happened to you. My grandma used to do shit like this too, she felt especially qualified because she was a nurse. I used to suffer with a lot of stomach problems (turns out it was a chronic condition) growing up and often she'd accuse me of all sorts of things because of my body "language", "language" that was just me trying to get comfortable. I.e if I crossed my arms over my stomach (because it was hurting), according to her it was because I was "preparing to lie" or if I readjusted while she was shouting at me and wasn't completely still then I wasn't "listening" to her.
for the first 40 minutes I was sat thinking a lot of these methods just do not apply to autistic people reliably at all, then it dropped that ekman study did a study with 6 facial expressions and I laughed. This shit is laughably not universal.
My experience growing up was people assuming my guilt and I was just there the whole time like "this is just my face". Of course if you shout at me I am going to get more nervous. It's all a pile of shite assumptions about 'normal' behvaviours
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS!! as an autistic person who’s actions don’t always coincide with how I’m feeling, I’m so tired of “body language experts” being all over TH-cam
Whose*
sameee
Same here.
Absolutely agree! Fellow autistic who's been thinking that very thing.
Same thing here, it's also this type of misunderstanding that's ruined a lot of my friendships.
That and I'm the literal human depiction of the hedgehog dilemma, and I have tons of projected insecurities caused by years of bullying and social isolation.
"When it’s straight up pathetic bullying" THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SAYING THAT. I’ve pointed out how the public tears at celebrities or just someone posted on the internet can be a form of cyber bullying and the hate I’ve received each time is astonishing.
Whenever one thing goes wrong or a "scandal" happens, people I know have been so quick to hop on the hate train- with reasons like, "I knew there was something up them. It was just a feeling." Like what?????
Then when the scandal proves to have been nothing more than a fake, widespread, playground rumor, they’re quiet.
Then someone basically told me, "they should expect to be judged if they’re putting themselves on the internet." So like - cyber bullying is not okay if it’s one of us "mere mortal" but it’s okay if a person made a name for themselves and is successful (to some degree). Like, I cannot-smh. They are still one person. So much hate can break them just as much as the next person. Try to put yourself in their shoes and learn so empathy
I'm a licensed therapist, and all the time I have to talk to my clients about how I'm not constantly interpreting their body language and how that's just psuedoscience, because they've been lead to believe that mental health professionals do that sort of thing by these yahoos.
Like there are some body language indicators that can help, crossed arms and leaned back implies the client is withdrawn, but for the most part its all a lot of bunk.
Please make sure your colleagues know that too, because a lot of them actually do unfortunately
Crazy that so many people seem to be worried about that concerning their therapist! I just knew my jokes would be my downfall when I went in lol
You probably not that good at your job
@@aardvark2641 🤡
@Max Milian oh absolutely! At the end of the day, the only one who can tell you how the client feels is the client.
It's easy to overlook how _predatory_ this nonsense can be, particularly when it comes to those of us who have difficulty interpreting social cues.
this!
This is very true. People think that this kind of bullshit is harmless and that we should just ignore the bullshitters, but it's really harmful and dangerous.
Can you imagine what this kind of thing can do to someone with a mental health condition with tendencies toward things like paranoia or psychosis? Being constantly made aware of subtle cues of dishonesty that aren't justified but you're told are justified and backed up with science.
Or imagine having schizophrenia and having all the symptoms being welcomed with open arms and encouraged in a church and on the evening news, with demons and angels and talking to spirits and whatnot.
Or actually having sociopathy personality disorder and being shown that you can make money off of predating on vulnerable people and you could be famous and praised for comforting the masses by guiltlessly preying on the weaker, that you are encouraged to see as tools to further your career as body language expert, spirit whisperer, or pastor or apologist.
It's not healthy and it's not harmless stuff that comforts some people and we should just respect as a different view or different beliefs. It's glorifying the constant encouragement of harmful behaviour, while also constantly making people more suspicious of other people, especially honest and sincere people because it encourages to ignore actual evidence and be extra suspicious or faithful in the face of contradicting evidence to score (faith) points, and painting criticism as close mindedness,ironically closing the mind off from everything that doesn't align with the presumptions that are being made about people and the rest of the world around us.
Exactly! I’m not avoiding their eyes because I’m lying, I’m avoiding their eyes because I’m autistic.
@@doodleplayer4014absolutely. I am autistic and eye contact makes me feel like I am being poked with red hot needles. THAT is why I avoid it.
Not just that... ever thought that the racism is desirable to certain people. An excuse to marginalize minorities.
I will always remember the story of Lindy Chamberlain. She had her baby killed by a dingo which was later proven, but because she didn’t have the body language of a stereotypical “hysterical grieving mother” the jury found her guilty for murdering her baby. This woman lost her baby, was taken from her family, wrongfully imprisoned for years, physically and sexually assaulted and still receives death threats to this day just because she processed grief in an atypical way. Fuck body language analysis, this crap ruins lives.
I always take "body language analysis" as a tool you can use in social contexts, it's insane to me that people take it as forensics.
Remind me another murder case about a mother get death row and later in her death to find out she didn't murder her children because they found a different finger print in the crime scene *why* they sentence her because they see her video days after the incident that she act different in her children grave
Edit: i forget to mention she is the survivor of the incident and the only key witnesses
You’re talking about an atypical example to prove why body language isn’t legitimate, and to say legitimate as in a statistically demonstrated way. The reason it is and can be used in real life is because most people follow these behaviours. So because there are atypical examples we should disregard the majority
@@melissabrouwer9899 so you’re saying it’s ok to ruin a bunch of peoples lives as long as they’re in the minority? Screw that
@@melissabrouwer9899 did u watch the video at all lmao
As a Autistic person I really appreciate this video. People always get my expressions wrong and assume the weirdest shit from accusing me of me of being "aggressive" whilst I'm in pain to telling that I "should sulk so much". Most times I'm just tired. Other times I'm just uncomfortable or don't know what is expected of me. I struggle immensely to look at people in the eye, even my husband and mother had to teach me how to with them but with other people, I just can't. So I trained myself to look around them, or at their eye brows, or lashes. Sometimes I get accused of being dishonest even when I'm not, all because I "can't look them in the eye so I must be lying." It's so frustrating. People think they've got you all figured out. The Dadevote talks about "the nothing box". Basically don't assume your partner is angry or whatever. They could literally be thinking about nothing.
My husband is a person with Autism. It took me a while to learn all of his facial expressions mean, why he didn't look up or greet me when I came home from from work if he was engrossed in a project or something he was reading about, why he doesn't make eye contact sometimes, why he seems angry or irritated for seemingly no reason (usually over stimulation) etc. And it took a long time to learn not to take those kinds of things personally or to read too much into them. And I'm positive all these things are different for every person living with ASD. It's impossible to read what's happening inside someone's mind solely based off of what's happening on their face or what's happening with their body. It takes a lot of time and experience to learn how another person's mind works.
As a side note; I don't want this comment to sound negative. He does struggle with it sometimes and so do I, but the fact that my husband has Autism is what makes him so special. It makes him incredibly sensitive, SUPER smart, and extremely creative. And boy does he love to research and learn new things!! He has taught me amazing things I probably would have never known. He has taught me to see the world in a different way. I see more beauty because of him. If I mention that I'm interested in a new hobby, he'll research it for hours and then show up one day with everything I could possibly need and help me to get started.
He can lay in in bed and hear the most faint bird call with the window closed, a sound my ears would never pick out of all the noise of the city, and be able to ID what bird it is. He's just incredible in so many ways because of his Autism and it's something I celebrate and cherish about him. ❤
My husband also has a very non-expressive form of autism, and it also took me a while to get used to understanding that it didn't equate rejection, lack of caring, etc., just that his inner world doesn't reflect what he expresses. My own form of autism, I am often very hyper expressive and super anxious, so I'm sure detectives would read us both as guilty, lol. I keep hearing the body language "experts" define all the signs of lying as extremely neurotypical without mentioning any exceptions to the rule (or how context can signficantly change the way someone responds to a situation), and to assert such 'rules' with such confidence and authority just comes off extremely harmful and biased.
I’m diagnosed with ADHD. I thought the same when she mentioned the fidgeting. I fidget because I need to move and to keep myself focused/awake not because I’m nervous. I mask my inability or loss of focus, I’m emotional, I have sensory discomforts to white LED lights, some noises, smells, etc So many things could make these experts think I’m guilty of something.
I love the true crime channels trying to analyse the body language of criminals saying "Body language is by some considered a psudo-science BUT is used by the FBI and CIA." I mean the CIA tried using telepathy for a while as well, doesn't mean it worked.
Also, neither entity is known for their adherence to ethics lol
I should go find out where I posted that and redact it. I am guilty of that in the past, although I said it was used by the FBI/CIA and police interrogators AND also included that it was inconclusive and not enough to only look at nonverbals, but that there is a lot more to it than that. You make a very valid point, though.
I know exactly what channel you’re talking about 😅
I love that's seen as an endorsement of body language interpretation, not a condemnation of the FBI and CIA.
CIA also tried mind control, with varying results
I attended several of these classes and was the lead interrogator for my police department. This video is so spot on. Not only do some of these tactics sometimes put innocent people in jail, but we are trained to believe every person is guilty, and to question them with absolute guilt in mind.
Needless to say, being a cop was one of the worst periods of my life and I quit after roughly 5 years. I genuinely wanted to help people, but too often felt like the bad guy. I ended my career after I wouldn't lie on the stand for the DA and basically acted as a witness for the defense in a felony case.
The police in Germany is not questioning people to confirm if someone is guilty. They are interrogating to find out the details, facts. The judge has to conclude if someone is someone guilty.
Thank you for being a good person. But it is absolutely terrifying that people like you are deterred from police work, and instead we have the people who want a power trip and will say anything.
It's a shame that you quit because we need more deeply honest police... But also, I don't blame you one bit for the decision.
The world is in dire need of some police reform. But anyways, back on topic, I'm glad to hear you backing up the notions of this video 🙂
So that’s why some cops are horrible to potential assault victims! And mentally ill people who are in a crisis! Cops are not particularly emotionally intelligent or trained properly on how to de escalate a person in crisis. Obviously I understand this doesn’t apply to every cop in the USA.
good on you for quitting. you did well
Queen: *literally at her husbands funeral*
Body language “experts”: “You can see by her body language that she’s very sad right now.”
Brilliant.
That is hysterical.
"Thanks for the insight Captain Obvious!"
Sometimes it's just that dumb
Who whould have thought?
i have bipolar, and i remember during my last manic episode i was CONVICED that everyone could essentially read my mind because i heard that body language can tell everything you are thinking. it sure didnt help my mania . good to finally understand that ppl cannot read my mind through my body language.
"Pick which emotion this is out of these _six exact choices that were chosen by me._ No, you can't pick any other option, that's not allowed. That's not sCiEnCe."
Painfully accurate.
Even children's therapists (at least those with rigorous training to treat traumatized and neurodivergent kids) stopped using that method to ask kids their emotional state. They do use pictures, but there is a far wider array and are exaggerated cartoon illustrations- like a person huffing with their arms crossed or someone kicking someone else in the shin. It's also dramatically more complicated than pointing at one and running with it- as if a traumatized nonverbal autistic 5 year old can even comprehend what some grimacing face is portraying.
And then the study found 6 universal emotions. Definitely a coincidence. Weird that the 6 universal emotions just happen to be the exact emotions they allowed as the only options for responses.
43:47 since their introduction, i see people in real life react basically following only these 6 emoticons "available"
Same reason why personality tests are bs
omg this reminds me of being at school. teachers would think i was lying bc i wouldn’t hold eye contact or i was fidgeting. like yeah? ur shouting in my face what do u want me to do😭
@TrueDrax92wanna hear something shocking about eye contact and those who insist you do it? Predatory psychopaths need that eye contact to determine if you are an easy victim. They will often gaslight vulnerable people into the "look into my eyes when i am talking to you" trick by saying you are lying if you dont.
I had a teacher that said "I know you're lying cus you wrinkle your nose!" What she was describing was a frown, people frown when they're unhappy.
Your teacher wasn't a behavioral analyst.
@@247Barcaro how do you know? you don't personally know the teacher lmao
is it because they got it wrong? ever heard of a 'no true scottsman' fallacy?
@@247Barcaro And neither are you, stop spamming the comments.
My pet peeve is seeing body language channels clearly riding on a hate train against certain individuals like Meghan Markle or Britney Spears.
They really wanted to see the worst from these people so they can get clicks.
honestly they reveal more about themselves than anybody else
It makes them money... There's no conflict of interest disclosure 😕
sorta like a channel that gets clicks by calling out groups who are doing pseudoscience?
@@Ddub1083 No, not really, unless you use some Olympics-level mental gymnastics
It seems incredibly grift-y.
My stepdad who was in the army always said he knew I was lying bc he had gotten training for it, and basically just assumed that everything I said was a lie and would intimidate me into actually lying and just saying what he wanted to hear. So yeah, very good first impression of body language experts for me
That sounds awful, I'm sorry to hear that. Just the image of someone like him being happy he's "proven right" makes me angry, but at least you have the power that deep inside you know he's being a moron about this while you're just looking out for yourself.
The worst of all this is how much stupid confidence can be earned in just one course, the more training the more arrogance
I probably already have 'weird body language' because of my chronic backpain, can't imagine how destructive these tactics could be for people on the spectrum or with down syndrome or anything else. Thank you so much for always killing it with these video's.
I'm like 99% sure anyone with social anxiety would basically come off as a potential serial killer to these people.
@@odonnellcaleb only if they didn't like them beforehand, purely coincidence of course...
As someone on the spectrum: it’s so destructive that our average lifespan is less than 60, with the leading cause of death (not accounting for epilepsy) being suicide 🙃
@@rotisseriepossum god that's terrible i didn't know that 😔
It would actually be interesting to clearly know the emotional state of people with severe mental disabilities.
Because I wanna know wether they like the food or wether I should order a different meal next time. You know, right now I'm guessing at work. Usually there's some things, bu....
Wait, I lost the thread. Anyway, I would not want those people anywhere near any of my clients.
I'm 1h16m in and want to mention that trauma impairs memory. Recalling not only specific details, but also the order in which things happened, and fitting the events into a broader timeline, can be incredibly difficult EVEN IF someone is totally comfortable in the presence of law enforcement/etc. The impairment isn't limited to the traumatic event itself, either. The things that happened before and after can also be affected.
We've seen how failures of memory are treated in cases where someone is sexually assaulted/raped/etc, and in many cases involving someone from a historically excluded group (ex Black, Indigenous, and People of Color).
This is so important. People ignorant on how trauma impacts cognitive function will genuinely take trauma symptoms as proof of falsehoods and deception ):
this is why u NEVER talk to the police. get a lawyer first ALWAYS.
no matter what you do or say, innocent or guilty, they will find something to use against you
hell, never even mind trauma- humans are bad witnesses. we remember a story of the event that we tell ourselves after the fact, and our subconscious paints in the details. that's why eyewitness accounts are impossible to rely on; it's very easy for them to misremember, or to take a suggestion and run with it, or to swap details of the event around, especially if the series of events was confused to begin with. actually, if you separate 2 witnesses and they tell you the exact same story, that's a pretty good sign of a lie, whereas if they tell you two things which line up only 60%, at least one of them is likely telling the truth.
Haha yeah... it's very frustrating
Fun fact, I was 16 and witnessed my grandma die in the hospital, straight afterwards I bought my first pack of cigarettes and chain smoked them in the street because I was so out of it and needed a distraction of sorts, I was smiling like an idiot and felt like the world was melting around me. My uncle arrives and sees me and tells the whole family I'm a psychopath because I wasn't "crying like a normal person" (that came later), I don't have contact to this part of the family anymore because they suck for many reasons but yeah, great thing to do to a teenager from an abusive home whose only non abusive parental figure just died.
Everyone deals with death differently. lm the typical break down and weep, but l understand that some people don’t do that. Grief is complex and nobody grieves the same way.
True, when my mom died, i didnt cry, i just went into my room and laid there silently all night. People thought it was weird that i wasn’t sobbing.
That and there are lots of different reasons for why somone griefs the way they do, I rarely cry when grieving, I'm more likely to just be silent and move to the background, which according to my therapist is a completely normal trauma response because I'm trying to protect myself from further emotional harm, even when I feel completely safe in an environment, I usually need to be alone to cry.
My grandma also passed away, and it felt so weird being the only one at the celebration of life who didn’t cry. My reaction was delayed by at least a day.
I found my brother dead in the bathtub with a floating poop.
To this day my only reaction is laughter based on the fact we had not long before sat down and watched south park laughing deeply over the conversations between characters about how you void you bowels when you pass.
People look at my funny when I try explain this but such is life.
I cross examine witnesses for a living. No 2 people lie the same (and if they do, you’d never know which 2 they are); that’s why we have to use “logic” and “reasoning” to ask them questions where they can’t see where we are going, and get them to box themselves into a falsehood (it’s not hard at all, we try and be up and down in less than 5 minutes).
Who knew checking if what people say is true or not is a better indication of if they’re lying than what they look like. Crazy.
Dang, a lot of those signs of terroristness are also symptoms of autism or just undergoing the stress of airports…
Or just being a person. A lot of people talk about autism, but these things are all normal for neurotypical people as well.
@@trekkiejunkyou may not realize it, but the replies you’re leaving are pretty ableist. You’re erasing the struggles of us autistic people and saying “all people do that”. Neurotypical people may experience some of these a little bit, and you obviously don’t understand HOW MUCH it affects autistic people. It’s not just fidgeting a bit during stressful situations. And I’m not going to explain it all to you since I’m not your teacher. If you want it explained go do some research.
@trekkiejunk "or just undergoing the stress of airports"
@pemanilnoob587 the person said "as well". they are trying to illustrate how this "body language" mumbo jumbo is untrue on all levels. i know that neurotypical has become a very vague word at this point, and it sometimes includes mental illnesses and sometimes doesn't (so idk who they include when they use that term), but allistic mentally ill people also exhibit "odd" or atypical body language.
@@trekkiejunk i love it when neurodivergent people talk about neurotypical people like they are these magical homogenous beings that all behaves the same way and experience the same emotion
This is like the main reason I hate being neurodivergent, people always try to "read" me but like, I'm just awkward, sometimes I get really bad anxiety because I'm terrified that my facial expressions or speech patterns are setting off "red flags" for people or making them think I'm untrustworthy or something just because I stuttered or was touching my hair too much or even made a weird face
Same 😖
The thing that kills me is that they'll demand these behaviors then say you have an anxiety disorder if you try to perform the behaviors correctly to avoid punishment
And jUsT bE yOuRsElF
It's so strange to me that people get so hung up on this stuff. In reality, no one is paying attention to you. No one cares. No one's analyzing your face or what you're doing with your body, everyone is just preoccupied with thier own lives and what they are doing. No one could care less what anyone else is doing.
@@CraftyMagicDollz I agree that it's good not to get too caught up in it, but it's true. Humans are judgemental as hell
I've always hated when people say that having your arms crossed is a sign of being closed off or angry. Like, no, it's comfy? Why shouldn't I hold my arms in a way that's comfy? Never made sense to me.
Totally agree. It's a form of self-soothing, sometimes I just feel better when I cross my arms.
@@Shapeology Yeah, now that I think about it, it does kinda feel like a self-hug.
@@probsnooneyouknowtbh3712 Yep, some therapists even recommend it as an exercise to calm down your nervous system.
I remember an hr training that had a slide about body language that said “someone crossing their arms could be a sign that they are angry, or they could just be a little cold. Don’t rely on body language”
personally ive found it to be true in My Own Personal Experience In My Own Body because ever since i heard that years ago i catch myself getting excessively defensive in an argument when i realize i'm crossing my arms and/or legs, and it helps me take a step back and assess my emotional state and avoid unecessary escalation
however give i'm autistic theres a very good chance this is in fact just something i picked up and started emulating specifically to fit in, most likely from animated series in which, yes, crossed arms are a big signpost of discomfort or defensiveness because in animation you have to make the emotions of the characters as readable to the audience as possible
i have never in my life tried to use this """knowledge""" to ""spot"" someone ELSE being closed off because they crossed their arms. literally how would i know that's what that means to them?
On the subject of polygraphs, you can always just refuse it. The point of a polygraph test is to lie and tell you that you failed it just to see what you'll do.
1. You often can't refuse it, we test all recruits in important sectors in Ukraine on polygraphs... Can't take a chance. We know they aren't perfect but still better than nothing.
2. That's not the point, we don't care "what will someone offering to work for us do if they're told they lied", we need extra layer to see if the person is genuine or spying for russia.
3. I think Westerners are just too spoiled and privileged in your coddled, safe life, so you can just complain about everything while selling weapons components to putin.
@@KasumiRINAbro says westerners are spoiled and complain while throwing a hissy fit in a TH-cam comment section lmao
@@KasumiRINAi think they were speaking in the context of American criminal investigations.
@BellePal Yeah. By the way, counterintelligence organizations in countries at war don't even have time nor resources to try to operate ethically. They WILL put hundreds or even thousands of people, many of whom are innocent, behind bars or even under the ground. War is madness.
This pseudoscience is just THE worst nightmare for socially awkward and neurodivergent people.
During my school years I had been bullied by classmates for acting/speaking "weird" (I had no friends and ended up regressing in speech because I had no one to have a proper conversation at home as well). In the last years, I was know for being the most serious/apathetic person in my year when I was just trying to pull myself together for how everybody treated me like a joke for being socially awkward (and later I found out I had anxiety and depression all that time).
If one day I'm in the public eye for something serious these channels will eat me alive.
one of my greatest fears is being famous or well known for any reason because of this sort of stuff. I know I'm odd as do my loved ones and I'm on with that, but I know how horrible mob mentality is
@@Senjamin I feel you, same here. Also, kickass name!
@@Senjamin I think Pepe Sylvia is how Charlie reads Philadelphia
i have adhd so these channels would think I'm hiding and trying to run away because I'm simply trying not to be super hyper while I'm supposed to be sitting still
Yeah I hate those body language experts because it exclusively applies to neurotypical communication
And even then, you can still learn "poor social skills" regardless your neurotype
The only scientific, fool proof lie detector is if the other person crosses their fingers behind their backs.
Or they were using reverse psychology, telling the truth and pretending it was a lie. Or maybe they were using reverse reverse psychology, by assuming we assume reverse psychology and outsmart us by lying about lying about lying. They could also be using reverse reverse reverse psychology...
These scam artists always annoy me. I was abused as a child and it has effected my body language and how I communicate with others; I always worry that I am not being truthful because I don't look at people in the eyes or be expressive in the way that they expect.
Don't worry, you are not alone in not looking people in the eye, for instance, Japanese people get scared at westerners looking at their eyes when talking. So a whole nation is with you on not looking people in the eye.
There are also many cultures that avoid eye contact instead of looking for it. Like billions of people are that way, it's a mix
I live in Minnesota and i also dislike eye contact (both due to where I'm from and by anxiety), I have found it's pretty good here in that regard! If you can stand the less great parts of the midwest, that is :| We make sure not to look each other in the eyes. We even have conversations at a 90 degree angle for the sole purpose of avoiding eye contact! It's kinda cold, but I think you'd like it here 🙂
(i'm the same way for different reasons and it's a nice perk of living here lol. I know a few of the European countries [Norway or one of those guys I can't remember] are even more eye-contact adverse which sounds awesome, but good look getting them to let you move there)
My mother, who i truly believe has NPD and abised me as well as a child, always tells me to look in peoples eyes because they think im lying elsewise. It reeally fucks with me because it gives me such anxiety to look in peoples eyes and its her fault from the things she did to me as a child. I really hate her always pointing out things i do that i thought was fine and saying other people find me weird for it, that in itself feels lowkey abusive
Affected*
Police chief: how's the Reid technique coming along?
Policeman/researcher: it's great! I got the suspect to admit to crimes he never even committed.
Police chief: so it works
I wish someone made a show where a crime is faked, and all those experts are invited to give their analysis only to reveal at the end that they've been watching actors pretend like they're victims, witnesses and whatnot. It'd be really insightful when they inevitably fail to spot the staging and even better if they think they found the supposed murderer.
That´s a really good idea! I would watch that.
Omg that’s amazing. I would love thatttt
That's a great idea, it reminds me of the programme that did that with three mediums:
th-cam.com/video/u4qGfNViVN8/w-d-xo.html
well actors mimics real feelings, so... that means that there are some expressions wich coincides with some feelings.. otherwise they wouldn´t be good actors.
The whole point of this bullshit pseudoscience is that the micro expressions show your true emotions, if it was real they could tell you were acting since you don’t actually feel the way you’re acting
I'm Autistic and have gone my whole life having people make wildly inaccurate judgements about me base on my facial expressions, so every time I see "body language expertise" wheeled out I feel my skin crawl.
not that i dont agree with this video , i do. but since this is something that happens to you alot and you mention that youre Autistic , then perhaps your expressions deviate abit from your non_autistic peers and they dont find that your expressions match with whats really going on. what im trying to say is....if being autistic makes a difference in ones expressions, then of course most people would have a hard time "reading" them. even if they were able to 100% accurately read non_autistic peoples expressions.... hope that made sense
This is the fault of those people. Body language can only be subject to analysis AFTER a baseline is established. If one suddenly acts differently from their normal baseline, that’s a cause for concern in any situation. Why are they suddenly stiff and still when they usually fidget and rock in place? This is what BLA actually is. Tells of deception/discomfort aren’t universal.
@@Wonderoddity its not. Body language people maybe a problem, but this has been an issue before they came.
Talking to autistic people is extremely difficult outside of Discord.
@@Wonderoddity no still not
@neonpeacocks I liken bla to lie detectors. You can establish baselines in lie detection but that still does not make it a reliable source.
One major thing bla will struggle with is context. Our baselines will shift in different environments and scenarios. Like someone has had trouble sleeping the past week due to sounds or whatever excuse. Their baseline during this time will be greatly different then when they are in perfect health.
There are just too many variables in day to day life for a true baseline to ever be established. Kind of like how your farts smell different, as there is a different combination of things contributing to each one.
These people are the reason I can’t focus on a conversation properly. I have ADHD so instead of doing what helps me listen and not just hear what someone is saying, I feel like I have to “perform” listening ie give eye contact sit up straight, nod head, interact by saying “yes” and “yeah, okay.” It’s so stupid. I just want to be myself and do what helps me actually listen instead of what people perceive as listening.
omg same. Ive been doing it so long that a lot of my semi-automatic expressions arent really natural to me, I had to train myself to do them. idk what im like naturally bc ive been playing a role my whole life, and its exhausting to constsntly be acting but i cant stop anymore. So tiring. I still constantly pay an unreasonable amount of attention to my facial expressions when talking to ppl im not super super comfortable around, bc im terrified of being misunderstood.
"These people are the reason I can’t focus on a conversation properly. I have ADHD." No.. it's just your ADHD.
@@MrDutchmarshalt’s honestly BOTH
@@MrDutchmarshalthey literally explained what they meant by that immediately after stfu
@@MrDutchmarshalthe adhd isn't the problem, but things that help with listening (stimming, avoiding direct eye contact) is what people perceive as NOT listening so as to not have people constantly tell you you're being disrespectful you have to focus on doing those things. Consequently, you don't end up listening at all because you're too focused on acting like you are.
I remember about 5 years ago I told my therapist that I always felt out of place or like I didn’t belong so I would study the people around me and body watch language videos to blend in. Not only was I informed they weren’t accurate, a couple weeks later I got diagnosed with autism at 25 lol
One of the biggest problems with professions like "body language experts" is that they receive little to no feedback on whether or not their analysis was actually right. A lack of feedback makes it impossible to improve at a skill, since you don't even know if you did it correctly. These people have horrible self awareness to not realize that they're just deluding themselves into thinking they can do magic. It doesn't matter how much theory you know if it's never actually put to the test, in a situation where you can know the correct answer afterwards.
this!!! like where is the analysis of this analysis? you wouldn’t read a peer reviewed research paper that just ends with “he looks nervous” 💀
Do they have terrible self awareness and fool themselves, or are they fully self aware scammers?
@@captainufo4587 I believe the former. Why think your a bad person scammer when you can delude yourself to be an educator on a science?
With confirmation bias they don't look at when something doesn't work or someone don't behave in that way. As they mention it's got a margin of error. It's ambiguous success rate means you can build more belief and confidence in your skills, no matter how flawed. This is my crappy opinion anywayz
It's the same with a lot of the red pill game coaches / pickup artists
They sell courses to young men promising they'll be rich charismatic alpha bachelors that can pick up hot young women on the regular or close million dollar business deals with just one liners, proper body language, and a slight smirk at just the right angle.
Then you find out they get their women on sugar baby sites with the money you send them for the courses or they're in an open relationship with a woman built like a kangapotamus and they're living off her income
@@tianqi5008 They problem is that we don't choose what we believe. And it goes both way. On the other hand, when your livelihood depends something that is a lie, that might very well put you in a situation where you becomes a scammer. For example, there are pastors that even after losing the faith don't quit their jobs. Moreover, when you are spouting something that has no evidence to support it and make a living out of it, you gotta get pretty good at convincing people to trust you. Which incidentally is the skill set of a con artist.
As someone who is autistic, I do wish this sort of scientific reading of body language was accurate simply because I struggle to understand or recognize basic body language and social cues. Unfortunately, it’s only good for making me overthink everything I do more than I already do.
I just use it to make myself as expressive as I feel
@@tswrangle1000 I often forget to emote
@@sapphinese gotta practice
I've used a body language person on youtube to assist in understanding cues that seem to come naturally to others. Certianly never to tell if someone is lying or any of that crazy stuff... just indicators of how my patients might be feeling and to help me respond in ways that will convey what I want. I'm also autistic and I found this helpful as a nurse.
I actually agree with this video because the "art" is misused.
The good body language experts never speak in definites and tend to say things like "They *could* be uncomfortable." These indicators of discomfort have helped me navigate just a little better. It had helped me know when I need change subjects or if I need to redirect my patient (like if they're giving signs of discomfort or anxiety during a procedure, I can hold their hand or start talking with them about something I've already figured out is positive for them. Talking about pets is generally a good diversion). These emotional signs are natural for most people! Not me.
@@sapphinese Me too, and it's just because I'm sometimes tired and bored and I can't be arsed to repeat myself with the same emotions I had when I first said something. Which kind of sucks sometimes because I'm a singer/songwriter and once I've written it down I'm kind of done with it and I would have to act to make it convincing when I sing it and that just doesn't feel right.
On the flip side, people around me know that I can't repeat myself and I am always sincere, so if they ask me to recall something I can only come up with what I expect I would say in a situation based on the intentions I have that are simply based in wanting to support and help people with encouraging behaviour, and in shitting on bullshit to discourage that. So based on whether or not something was leaning toward well being or toward bullshit I either encouraged or discouraged.
Long story short, I don't think that showing emotions while speaking is all that important as long as you're being consistent in your behaviour and your words match that behaviour. That's how you build trust. Emotions can helpful in giving an impression, which is not reliable at all and should never be relied on with people we don't know well, i.e. people we haven't (yet) established the consistency of. Emotions can be extremely misleading and deliberately so - people act, people scam, and very convincingly.
So anyway, I don't think you're the one who has to worry about that. If there's a problem with it, it's because other people expect things that align with their assumptions and they shouldn't; htat's what gets them shat on by churches and other scams.
I had an ex who was obsessed with shit body language experts say, so whenever we'd get into an argument, she'd deflect away from whatever I was trying to communicate and point out how my body language told her that I was "lying" or "gaslighting" or that "I didn't event believe the things I was saying."
She'd leave every argument thinking she'd unearthed some deep, diabolical thing about me that perhaps I didn't even know about myself, and she'd go around to all of her family and friends telling them what I revealed to her through my body language, all the while never having to seriously consider my concerns, objections, or questions. It was exhausting.
It's nice being with a rational, compassionate partner with whom I can have productive discussions now.
Damn, good thing you are free from her bullshit, as a woman I empathize with you.
Happy you got out of that toxic garbage. I had astrology thrown at me in the past. Yours had to be even more maddening though, since so many people actually believe it.
Good for you... I always wondered how these things could even be practically applicable tho because most ppl do some things mentioned by body language experts that too for different reasons and not just one.i thought may be i was missing something that these people were seeing.
But its pretty hard to keep a track of all this in a quick communication, you d have to train yourself to observe a lot and while observation is useful, applying it to body language/microexpressions feels like it would take off our attention from more different verbal and other cues that are a lot more important and are more clearly communicating the things than just body language and microexpressions (eg.when serial killers are pulling out a gun/while a person is having a panic attack n needs help while you are focused on their microexpressions, since i feel like it would need excessive concentration on face alone while having to sacrifice our attention to other important things, seeing how many times ppl that attempt to analyze the microexpressions have a super zoomed in image/video of the person they are assessing, irl most ppl dont stand that near a person enough to see that much facial detail and it seems a lot easier to pay attention to just their bodys movement (when they try to pull out a gun) and actions, regular expressions (angry expression) ,vocal cues (like angry raised voice) to see if you are in danger over paying attention to a serial killers microexpressions.
it d also be intimidating to stare at ppl that much for microexpressions which might make em even more anxious/uncomfortable,nervous,angry and so on.
And the licking your lips thing could mean you are dehydrated/your need more lip balm/your lips are dry hence some ppl have habit of licking their lips..
Same with starting the sentence from well/honestly like lot of ppl say that just out of habit even when they arent lying, some ppl may also use "well" Too calm the situation down when theres an argument going on.. So how are ppl going to distinguish things from so many different reasons until they even know the person..
I have seen ppl criticize amber Heard and meghan markle simply because of their body languages while not even mentioning things shes done logically but since i didn't care to look up much about them it made it easier to differentiate the difference between their actions vs just criticizing them for their behavior and body language.
Now do i support these ppl? No do i think they are innocent, No (atleast for amber heard, if not for meghan since i know even less about her)..
But does that mean it serves any one well to exaggerate someones guilt because of body language and then just that as an excuse to hate on someone for stress relief?
I doubt it, its just bad for our own mental health, blood pressure while we look like mindless, uncivilized ancient angry mobs that attack anything that they find "looks wrong" even if the person that all this is directed towards is wrong, even if its ted bundy its better to criticize his actions and clear behavior than just hating/considering ppl guilty based on body language alone because then you are basically spreading the misconceptions about body language, which causes society to make an habit of slander, accuse ppl without proof or any other reasoning.
It is possible that one knows an individuals behavior/verbal/in rare cases body language patterns because you know theirs but thats not applicable universally and it should still be used with grain of salt because different things can happen for different reasons even for the same person.
other wise it can definitely break current or future relationships that one would have had if they had just tried not to judge ppl by their body language alone before actually trying to get to know them without all that in mind.
Its pretty sad that this can heavily impact how ppl percieve other people and behave with them and their relationships.
Your story and many other ppls including video finally made me realize that i am not the odd one out when i find body language and micro expression videos confusing and not very practically applicable irl.
All this is also being taught to cops and regular ppl ,which means that they can catch and accuse wrong ppl when letting the real perps ppl go simply because they didn't match their expectations of microexpressions/ body language of a perp/i.e "didnt look guilty" And isnt that why ppl that are considered good looking/normal looking get away with being accused of a crime, while people think that the person that that doesn't suit their aesthetic preference might be bad when that's not always the case and may lead to false accusations. 😓
I wanted to see perspectives of both sides too tho so i found this and the person is kinda politely, comedically but passive aggressively angry about it because according to him he was taken out of context and if thats true then understandably so but apart from all the that etc after seeing both of these videos i think some things mune cats and this following video both somewhay agree on despite having different opinions is that most ppl arent trained to do the body language reading properly, and many ppl that copy it from TH-cam make mistakes.
Link to video by shake
th-cam.com/video/AE7rb7pymvs/w-d-xo.html
So tho i think i ll have to articulate all my thoughts later to make a conclusion of my own since both their videos are long together to think about, some of what i understand is that if ppl without any successful experience/knowledge/practice in this ever want to try this practically irl and still see if it works for them since many ppl even without scientific evidence want to try it,they ll first have to differentiate deceptive channels from non deceptive ones and then actually learn it than just pointing out one one or two things without considering the context/persons personality (which many ppl do) and not do it if they are as good as applying it practically as some ppl that may be a little genuine are. And even then know that they could be wrong so not just use it randomly in relationship/investigation for accusing ppl without proof. Its not like reading basic body language is false like you can many times tell if someone's angry,sad,uncomfortable from their body language and behavior but it needs to be used with multiple different things from context,voice, personality, expressions and not just body language alone but you need to know that even if you can read basic stuff, if you arent related to the reason they are displaying the emotions or already know, you wont always accurately guess the reasons and even if you were correct at times,one can be wrong at other times. Hence its not as easy/supernaturally accurate/uncommon as ppl make it seem,we all use basic body language in our lives but ppl cant always use it with enough accuracy to use it in investigation/spot detection all the time, hence ppl do need a balance and know where their deductions can be right or wrong and where theres a room for error in their presumptions.
Oh boy what a nightmare
Yikes! I used to be mildly interested in body language videos but slowly started to see how it was pseudoscience. It was getting to the point where you could tell the person was just using context, tone of voice, words, and their own assumptions about subject of the video to "read their body language". Dr. Kirk Honda said it was garbage and he is an actual therapist so I'll take his word for it. Check him out if you want some actually valid information that will help you irl!
This is genuinely a scary topic for me. I don't even want to imagine how many people had falsely confessed because they got pressured so much in a interegation room and then went a live long to prison, because some analist thinks they were guilty. If they would interogate me, they'd probably throw me right into jail, just because in nervousness and autism I am showing all of the suposit symptoms.
Reminds me of the fact I learnt that avoiding eye contact in the West means you're dodgy, not listening, or up to something, but it's rude to stare in at least some Arab cultures and polite to lower your gaze, which I always felt. Also good luck with trying to analyse neurodivergent people... Not a single person with social anxiety or anywhere on the spectrum would be able to get past this. It also is completely ignoring the fact most people are constantly thinking about how they appear, changing up things when they realise they may not look how they want to. It assumes we're all just unthinking animals.
Walmart had a serious problem when they first opened in Russia, because they insisted on teaching employees to smile at every customer. In Russia, traditionally if you smile at a stranger you're either a psychopath or a simpleton. Apparently they had the same problem in Germany.
@@Nse204 In my job, I can't smile at the people I have in front of me because I am working as an office clerk in the French administration, and my job is to deal with people having professional diseases or accidents in the workplace. If you smile at them when they are explaining you something, they feel that you are joking at them and professionally not serious. My usual lack of expression is my greater asset with this audience, and people feels that, talking with me, they have been listen by someone who were taking their situation seriously. Even if I had to deal with some futile cases, one as recently as this Monday afternoon...
There is a difference between making eye contact and staring. Not making eye contact is not necessarily a shifty thing, it depends on exactly how you do it. It’s more about how fixed your gaze is. If your gaze is constantly shifting up and down and side to side it comes across as being uncertain of yourself. On the other hand if you look at a point either below or above the other person’s eyes, and maintain your gaze at that point consistently, it will not come across as shifty. Looking over their head and will convey belligerence, while looking at the ground will communicate subservience and/or deference. It should be noted that looking at their face below eye level, or their body, will make you look like you’re both attracted to them and, if you never make eye contact, probably a bit creepy too.
Your safest bet, if you are uncomfortable making eye contact, is to look between their nose and a point between their eyes, rather than actually looking directly at their eyes. This is close enough to reassure people that you are paying attention to what they’re saying, or that you are confident in what you are saying to them. Most people will probably not even notice you aren’t making direct eye contact.
Another trick that might help is to stand further away from them. The distance gives you more personal space which makes the conversation less personal, which can help to reduce any anxiety you might feel in social situations as it makes the interaction more distant and formal.
I live in the Arab world. Though I speak pretty good Arabic, it is usually eventually obvious I'm not native to here. So, I get a little wiggle room for my social awkwardness, since people are considerate and chalk up any odd ways I have to cultural differences. On the other hand, I have picked up certain norms from my time here, with regard to speech and interaction, that make me look a bit strange when I go back to the US. No matter where I am, I've never been that great with eye contact, due to mild autism (which also might be what makes me good at learning Arabic, lol, since I can get obsessively interested in things and learn them quickly).
In a weird way, I think having slight autism helps me adapt to different contexts, because everything and everyone are difficult to understand. I have had to learn to compensate for my lack of social intelligence pretty much everywhere, so I'm used to doing that. I still fuck up, but I think I have managed to learn a lot.
A body language "expert" on TH-cam did a video on the bodycam footage of Gabby Petito as the case was still developing, BEFORE her body was found.
In it, said TH-camr kept saying she didn't show typical signs of being abused, and defended the boyfriend (her killer) as being a possible victim of abuse, based on his "defensive" body language. They have since deleted this video, but ever since I have seen everyone in this genre as a hack.
Truly disrespectful and vile exploitation of real people for views.
Do you remember which TH-camr it was? I didn't know about this.
@@subroy7123 It was Observe. He made a post about it on his Community tab, but besides that did not make any more statements. I think he wanted to brush it under the rug as much as possible.
When will people realize that everyone expresses things in different ways? Not all abuse victims act the same.
I use to watch Observe until that video. Left a bad taste in my mouth before he deleted it.
Maybe it's just some confirmation bias -- but most of the arguments against body language seems to actually confirm that there is something behind it, and usually it's the conclusion drawn that's wrong, possibly because of confirmation bias of the observer. I mean, they accurately pointed out that the boyfriend was defensive, and concluded that they were a victim of abuse. Instead, they might have been defensive because they were about to murder the person they were on camera with. That could be completely wrong, though. I'm not overly familiar with the case, was it premeditated?
The moment a body language expert meets a person with ADHD, their head explodes
Or an autistic person, or someone with anxiety.
or social anxiety LOL if I was a suspect in a case and they used my (very anxious) body language as evidence, I would be put away
God forbid they meet someone with ADHD, anxiety and dyslexia all at once.
Yeah I avoid eye contact most of the time which would make them think I’m super guilty I guess
yeah, or autism. christ, I hope I’m never suspected of a crime because they’ll put me right away.
EXCELLENT!!!! I live in a culture where the common "tell" of "body language experts" of "make direct eye contact at all times" is actually a challenge to a fight
Whenever I see lie detector stuff my first thought is people like myself who have anxiety. We display all these traits in normal conversations, it isn't a sign of lying. Just that we are stressed out
Exactly. I've been trained from a very young age to never display a barrier (such as folded arms) in job interviews and such but anxiety makes me feel icy cold so instead of keeping myself warm by folding my arms I keep them open and instead get a stiff jaw from trying to suppress chattering teeth. Yay.
Same. I'm almost always anxious around new people.
Technicians who administer the polygraph are fully aware of this and do not “pass or fail” anyone based solely on positive or negative response. Now days it’s primarily used as a way to judge a suspect’s reaction to the test or as leverage. The fact that you think a technician would “fail” you because of your social anxiety is one reason it’s so effective.
@@wickedlee664 It's not effective. Lie detectors are not used by investigators anywhere anymore because they're not accurate.
I don't have anxiety but put me in a police interrogation room and I am going to be uncomfortable AF in that situation :D
When I was researching writing, body language info came in handy for writing stories, but then one of the reading recommendations was a man who described how people spot shoplifters and described the behavior, and I was like “that’s just how a black person goes shopping because we get followed by security or accused of stealing so we try to make ourselves look non-threatening as much as possible”. I’m black and have adhd, so I have a whole list of things I do in public to make myself seem “normal”, and it sucks to know that people take that body language to mean that I’m up to no good. I even got accused of attempting to shoplift the day after Obama got elected. From a store that I spent hundreds of dollars in since it was close to home and school.
Maybe try acting as you normally would, being innocent and genuine comes off just as that. You over compensating shows them you have some reason to. It’s all about the vibe you give, that’s what people pick up on no matter your intent or race.
That's absolutely cooked, sorry you have to experience that. But you're spot on- I have ADHD and probably seem like I'm lying all the time, especially when people think I'm lying about things that are a result of my ADHD
@@claydavisfromjewmanjiwitht8169 "See, it's actually your fault people assume you're guilty, because there is no reason you'd do that without being guilty, like you just explained."
@@claydavisfromjewmanjiwitht8169 no
@@claydavisfromjewmanjiwitht8169 The whole reason Black people have to act differently in the first place is because when they went around behaving normally, they were falsely accuse more than white people. The accusations came first, not the difference in behavior
My sister convinced her 4 year old daughter that a cross would appear on her forehead whenever she lies. So now, when my niece tells a lie, she puts her hand on her forehead so that my sister can't see the cross. I'd say that's a pretty good non-verbal cue for lying.
hahahaha
lmao
That's brilliant 😆
That’s only gonna work until the kid starts covering her forehead when she says true things in order to throw off the system lol very cute
Eventually the little girl is going to know that mommy was lying to her to keep her from lying. Way to teach your daughter to distrust you, mom!
I swear. The only things these behaviors are an indication of, and this is purely in the context of them being atypical of the person demonstrating them, is that something is off. The whole "this feels kinda weird" situation. That's it. Going from there is a sea of endless possibilities. I definitely have had some weird fidget behaviors that someone thought was an indication of me lying to them. The actual reason was because something I ate was giving me horrible runs and abdominal pain, which made me uncomfortable that entire day.
I am also really glad you called out JCS. I could never stand those videos because of the erroneous assumptions. All police intimidation tactics do is enact intimidation. They absolutely do not increase the "telling signs" of anything. Wow, being an intimidating prick makes people more uncomfortable, that's so insightful! What a genius. Whereas, in reality, there are numerous examples of how these intimidation tactics end up making innocent people more likely to lie and give in in order to escape the intimidation. It is complete nonsense.
I'm studying Speech and Language Therapy, and it angers me so much when people try to analyze non verbal communication across the internet- from people they've NEVER MET. Just 😶
That’s why they talk about baselines, and shit. People obviously tend to share some body language. Because body language is social.
@@TheseUseless It can tell you a lot in certain situations
@@TheseUseless
36:20
Had to take lie detection test as part of my parole, unfortunately that is given way more credibility than it deserves. Had to spend a few nights in jail for being “untruthful”. Never lied once especially about what they said I did. Ridiculous! And I had to pay this “expert”.
Sounds like how my last gf operated. Acting as if she was a walking lie detector. Always accusing me of lying and cheating when i was not doing either.
The system doesn't give AF about the truth, they just want bodies to feed the prision industrial complex
Lie detectors are pseudoscience - here in the UK they aren't used.
Lol a polygraph test is just a interrogation tool. I've been threatened by one but refused. They aren't even allowed to be used as evidence in court
Exactly why they're generally not admissible in court. Of course, cops aren't known for acting within the bounds of the law.
The pigindustry
It is possible to interact with traumatic memories without being immediately triggered. These "body language experts" don't know shit.
Like, I can talk about traumatic events with friends and normally be relatively chill. I keep the experience at arm's length by framing it in a more conceptual way and not directly touching the memory. It becomes a list of facts about the event. That changes if I'm actually triggered and am re-experiencing the event.
I'm a mental health counselor and I think one of the biggest misconceptions modern mental health culture has spread is that any event that could be considered traumatic will have a lasting negative effect on someone or that all reactions to traumatic events are near incapacitating or that someone gets triggered by anything which might remind them of a traumatic event regardless of context. I have my own trauma, but most of the times when I'm "triggered" I feel a little uncomfortable or at worst start getting anxious. I work with clients with PTSD every day and there are plenty of clients whose symptoms are very disruptive and need a lot of help, but I tthink social media has made it seem like everyone with PTSD is completely at the mercy of their trauma which I think is very unhelpful for everyone.
I've talked about my really bad trauma like I was telling someone what I ate for breakfast lmfao. and they replied by saying how fucked up the thing that happened was. And I never really processed that until that moment. Like trauma is SO COMPLEX its so gross to try and define human behaviors into such rigid "explanations"
@@teratsukielizabeth543 Oh yes!
When you don't have the context you can't really notice how messed up something was. It changes your baseline for what's normal. Then someone else mentions it and things click into place.
@@DoggyHateFire I think part of the issue is how it can be inconsistent (at least from the outside). I can manage fine in most circumstances, and can talk about traumatic events without too much difficulty (as long as I'm careful).
But I also have generalized anxiety, and a hell of a time sleeping or otherwise relaxing in a space unless I've made it secure. Hearing my upstairs neighbor walk around at night can cause a panic attack & keep me from sleeping.
So externally the trauma isn't obvious, but internally it can still have a significant negative effect on quality of life.
@@DoggyHateFire Actually this is the reason i didn't think i should see someone and get diagnosed, because i wasn't easily triggered, or if i was for the most common cases, i could calm down in a few hours.
Wasn't until i had another incident and .. i guess reviewed how i reacted to the situation that i actually got a diagnoses and some help.
Probably would have been able to handle that incident if i hadn't been poisoned with the idea that because i can talk about my trauma with friends and not be triggered, that it wasn't "good enough" for ptsd.
"Biology doesn't lie."
Mimicry: Am I a joke to you?
Body language 'science' is pop psychology's way of criminalizing divergence. Human behavior is complicated, anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to sell you something.
general mannerisms are observable to some degree, to claim their is absolute no validity to that level of observation, is braindead fallacious and ultimately a straw man
This is completely anecdotal, but an apt example I think. I’m Indigenous American (Dakota from South Dakota), to us, eye contact with someone of authority is considered disrespectful. Even now, at 28 y/o, it still gives me anxiety to look certain people in the eyes, but I do it anyway because I know it’s what people expect. If a detective were to detectivize me, I would most likely appear to nervously avoid eye contact out of guilt.
this is true for many indigenous australian groups too!
There are other societies, for example in West Africa, where this is also the case.
Similar thing in my mind is cultural differences on how firm your handshake should be.
Also, ❤ for "detectivize".
Same in Indonesia 👍🏻
when I was a child, I couldn't look people in the eye, like physically I couldn't make contact. I'd look from one eye to the other, or stare at the ground to hide it, it was weird. Lasted about three years. Nobody ever said a word to me about it. It was awful though. I would have been OK in any society, I looked at nobody lol.
Im neurodivergent and have a similar problem and it sucks. People probably think im disrespectful or shy. Im neither of these, i just dont like eye contact/cant hold it for very long.
I love watching the police interview videos with a narrator picking apart the suspect’s nonverbals and what it all means and how it guides the detective’s “gut” and blahblahblah and all I can think is that this must be how innocent people end up in prison.
That and being black.
That’s honestly exactly how it’s done. You’d think an innocent person would never admit to a crime they didn’t do, or need a lawyer present, but the reality is cops, during the interrogation process, will keep you for hours upon hours, breaking you down mentally to manipulate you into confessing to a crime you did not commit. During this process they’ll hold your freedom over your head, “if you admit to this we’ll let you go home”.
JCS specifically has given way to much credit to cops “interrogation methods”. As if each question or act is a specific and highly trained method in the police force.
These types of videos sort of push the narrative that if you just have good vibes (which is different for every person) then you’ll be fine.
@@rb8566 as cynical as I am on the JCS videos even I have to admit that there’s a couple of gems in there, for reasons other than “interview tactic analysis.” Jeff the heroin addict is legitimately amazing and the Stephen McDaniel video was hilarious on multiple levels (as hilarious as something can be that involves a murder, anyway).
The thing I don’t understand about most of the other ones where there was a lot of actual evidence to make it a slam dunk case was… why even bother with the mind game BS? If there’s overwhelming evidence to show guilt and it does not matter what they say why even try? For sport?
The only interview I saw that made any sense was the guy in Florida who shot a black man over a parking spot, but even then no wizardry was involved… the detectives asked questions, the shooter answered the questions, the shooter went to jail.
@@michaelw6277 tbf, getting a confession is better because it makes them less likely to go for an appeal and waste peoples times.
@@Nocturnalux Most of these things are just signs that a person is under stress, and then pretending there's NO REASON an innocent person would ever be stressed, which seems... not unrelated to this. 😐
I now understand why my metally ill brother keeps getting pulled aside at the airport.
A situation where I'm judged for every single move absolutely fucking terrifies me. I'm autistic and I already use a lot of brain power to seem "natural". But it's obviously not perfect. And I deal really badly with being accused of sth I haven't done, I start crying from the pressure and people assume I'm crying because I'm guilty. I hope I will never have to deal with police or security.
I really hope you'l never get into a situation like that. I have it pretty easy in comparison, though I'm playing with my hands and fidgeting a lot, which also sometimes leads to people thinking I'm nervous, when it's something I actually do most when I'm alone and not have to worry about anyone judging me for it :(
Same here. If I ever was interrogated I'd literally have to be like "FYI I'm autistic and I want a lawyer". I know I don't *need* to disclose but I feel like it.. Might.. Help? As long as the cops aren't horrible people.
So very scary
@@yeahokaycoolcoolcops don’t care. they might not even believe in autism. Conservatives 🎉
@@yeahokaycoolcool Austistic? More like victimization by an experienced killer! TELL US WHERE THE BOMBS ARE HIDDEN! /S
i love watching jcs criminal psychology daily as a reminder to NEVER TALK TO THE COPS EXCEPT TO ASK FOR A DAMN LAWYER THE COPS ARE NOT ON YOUR SIDE *EVER*
home stuck
@@10millioncrowshomes tuck
homestuck!!!!!!!
hom estuck
@@Morworld I reeally hope you are never questioned by the police, because that mindset could get you in a lot of trouble
It’s so crazy when this is used for people in court or accused of a crime. “Oh they’re fidgeting and not making eye contact” well, their future is being determined by strangers. They are literally about to find out if they might be removed from their lives and loved ones-would they not be nervous? Is that what we call guilt now?
Not to mention this just doesn’t work for some people. Everyone is pointing out neurodivergent people, but I’m not neurodivergent and I’m absolutely terrible at eye contact. When I meet new people I often don’t even know what they looked like because I’ll look over their shoulder or at the ground. Am I suspicious? No I’m just awkward
so that would be your baseline then
and different cultures having different habits. or different emotional levels. or different methods of being raised. so wack
Body language is the visual equivalent of the “polygraph” which is utterly useless as a “lie detector”
@@khaoscero she explained herself that “baseline” isn’t real and has no effect on readings.
@@annalivingtv 'baseline' is something we all use all the time. It's how we can tell if our spouse is upset, if our colleague is out of sorts. We compare their current behavour to their usual behaviour. Saying it has 'no effect' just doesn't make sense.
With tourettes, ocd, and autism, I dare you to explain my thoughts and actions via my body movements.
I see you crossed your arms while we were talking. From this, it's blatantly clear to me that you thought you should cross your arms
Meghan Markle is singlehanded keeping the TH-cam body language experts in business.
Eh, there's also Amber, there was Gabby Petito (yes, there were "body language experts" that claimed the police body cam video proved SHE was the abuser, they later removed the video) and I'm sure there will be other women that will become their targets.
Don’t forget Amber Heard. I saw a picture of her holding her daughters hand while on a stroll and the body language experts said that it was a sign she was abusing her toddler because she’s not letting the child move freely on the side of the road.
They also said because Amber was standing up straight (as opposed to stooping or crawling beside her daughter???) because she was trying to establish dominance over the child and instill fear in her
Not even close. Their bread and butter is defaming and bullying Amber Heard.
@@Maialeen I used to think Amber Heard is the pure villain in this situation…until I found out Johnny’s lawyer cheated on her husband with Johnny Depp. Now I don’t know who should I root for anymore.
@@nont18411 She met Johnny while she was married, I don't know if they were doing stuff during that, but the Lawyer and her husband are in the middle of a divorce.
A lot of the behaviour they try to assimilate with lying is actually more likely to be a sign of discomfort.
"Turtling", avoiding eye contact, crossing your arms, etc
In university my professors would often think I was hiding mistakes from them when I was just genuinely nervous about presenting my work, and so they'd grill me trying to find my lie. It was exhausting.
Exactly as someone with horrible social anxiety I’m constantly fidgeting and stuttering/slurring when talking to people I’m not overly familiar with (and even sometimes with people I am familiar with) if a “body language expert” looked at me for even a second I’d be marked as a chronic liar and or serial killer
@@kendallchaos I just replied to another comment about this, but, again, this seems to confirm that there's something behind body language. I have issues with anxiety and fitting in for a couple different issues growing up. If you look at my body language, you can almost always tell when I'm uncomfortable. The issue comes in when people make the leap that "uncomfortable == guilty"
Meaning that the issue comes in when people take observations and then apply their own belief on top of it as to what the observation means
@@kenjyn76 that's the whole problem with it dude, idk what you're trying to accomplish with all these comments, everyone's behaviorial patterns are different, that's it. There's no way to objectively "read" someone, even lie detectors are unreliable
I always wondered how these things could even be practically applicable tho because most ppl do some things mentioned by body language experts that too for different reasons and not just one.i thought may be i am missing something that these people were seeing.
But its pretty hard to keep a track of all this in a quick communication, you d have to train yourself to observe a lot and while observation is useful, applying it to body language/microexpressions feels like it would take off our attention from more different verbal and other cues that are a lot more important and are more clearly communicating the things than just body language and microexpressions (eg.when serial killers are pulling out a gun/while a person is having a panic attack n needs help while you are focused on their microexpressions, since i feel like it would need excessive concentration on face alone while having to sacrifice our attention to other important things, seeing how many times ppl that attempt to analyze the microexpressions have a super zoomed in image/video of the person they are assessing, irl most ppl dont stand that near a person enough to see that much facial detail and it seems a lot easier to pay attention to just their bodys movement (when they try to pull out a gun) and actions, regular expressions (angry expression) ,vocal cues (like angry raised voice) to see if you are in danger over paying attention to a serial killers microexpressions.
it d also be intimidating to stare at ppl that much for microexpressions which might make em even more anxious/uncomfortable,nervous,angry and so on.
And the licking your lips thing could mean you are dehydrated/your need more lip balm/your lips are dry hence some ppl have habit of licking their lips..
Same with starting the sentence from well/honestly like lot of ppl say that just out of habit even when they arent lying, some ppl may also use "well" Too calm the situation down when theres an argument going on.. So how are ppl going to distinguish things from so many different reasons until they even know the person..
I have seen ppl criticize amber Heard and meghan markle simply because of their body languages while not even mentioning things shes done logically but since i didn't care to look up much about them it made it easier to differentiate the difference between their actions vs just criticizing them for their behavior and body language.
Now do i support these ppl? No do i think they are innocent, No (atleast for amber heard, if not for meghan since i know even less about her)..
But does that mean it serves any one well to exaggerate someones guilt because of body language and then just that as an excuse to hate on someone for stress relief?
I doubt it, its just bad for our own mental health, blood pressure while we look like mindless, uncivilized ancient angry mobs that attack anything that they find "looks wrong" even if the person that all this is directed towards is wrong, even if its ted bundy its better to criticize his actions and clear behavior than just hating/considering ppl guilty based on body language alone because then you are basically spreading the misconceptions about body language, which causes society to make an habit of slander, accuse ppl without proof or any other reasoning.
It is possible that one knows an individuals behavior/verbal/in rare cases body language patterns because you know theirs but thats not applicable universally and it should still be used with grain of salt because different things can happen for different reasons even for the same person.
other wise it can definitely break current or future relationships that one would have had if they had just tried not to judge ppl by their body language alone before actually trying to get to know them without all that in mind.
Its pretty sad that this can heavily impact how ppl percieve other people and behave with them and their relationships.
Your story and many other ppls including video finally made me realize that i am not the odd one out when i find body language and micro expression videos confusing and not very practically applicable irl.
All this is also being taught to cops and regular ppl ,which means that they can catch and accuse wrong ppl when letting the real perps ppl go simply because they didn't match their expectations of microexpressions/ body language of a perp/i.e "didnt look guilty" And isnt that why ppl that are considered good looking/normal looking get away with being accused of a crime, while people think that the person that that doesn't suit their aesthetic preference might be bad when that's not always the case and may lead to false accusations. 😓
I wanted to see perspectives of both sides too tho so i found this and the person is kinda politely, comedically but passive aggressively angry about it because according to him he was taken out of context and if thats true then understandably so but apart from all the that etc after seeing both of these videos i think some things mune cats and this following video both somewhay agree on despite having different opinions is that most ppl arent trained to do the body language reading properly, and many ppl that copy it from TH-cam make mistakes in applying it practically, and many other ppl even misuse it themselves.
Link to video by shake
th-cam.com/video/AE7rb7pymvs/w-d-xo.html
So tho i think i ll have to articulate all my thoughts later to make a conclusion of my own since both their videos are long together to think about, some of what i understand is that if ppl without any successful experience/knowledge/practice in this ever want to try this practically irl and still see if it works for them since many ppl even without scientific evidence want to try it,they ll first have to differentiate deceptive channels from non deceptive ones and then actually learn it than just pointing out one one or two things without considering the context/persons personality (which many ppl do) and not do it if they are as good as applying it practically as some ppl that may be a little genuine are. And even then know that they could be wrong so not just use it randomly in relationship/investigation for accusing ppl without proof. Its not like reading basic body language is false like you can many times tell if someone's angry,sad,uncomfortable from their body language and behavior but it needs to be used with multiple different things from context,voice, personality, expressions and not just body language alone but you need to know that even if you can read basic stuff, if you arent related to the reason they are displaying the emotions or already know, you wont always accurately guess the reasons and even if you were correct at times,one can be wrong at other times. Hence its not as easy/supernaturally accurate/uncommon as ppl make it seem,we all use basic body language in our lives but ppl cant always use it with enough accuracy to use it in investigation/spot detection all the time, hence ppl do need a balance and know where their deductions can be right or wrong and where theres a room for error in their presumptions.
That's why the baseline, that thing that munecat claims isn't a thing, exists.
Also, to correct you, they're not claiming these things to be signs of lying, they're claiming them to be possible indicators of deception. Deception can be subconscious.
It's remarkable how they take the normal things people do when they're stressed and decide it's actually deception. I do all this shit when I'm in a stressful conversation and I'm not lying, I'm just flustered
Many of them don’t, and they even specifically make a point of trying to seek out various baselines to compare with, and repeatedly saying that it takes clusters of indicators outside the norm of their baseline and things that aren’t happening at random intervals due to nerves or something like that. They also go out of their way to make clear that it’s not an exact thing and there’s obviously no way they can know for sure from just watching videos. And they often will not necessarily point it out as deception anyway, just something to note.
Some of them might be shitty but there are some non-shitty ones, too.
Yeah, but people tend to be more stressed when trying to deceive. Obviously, if the conversation itself was already to be kinda stressful, it's not enough to look at body language, but if someone came up to me to tell me something super casual and was shaking all the way through, I'd think something was up, ya know?
I'm shy so I would be stressed no matter the topic.
@@leanansidhe6332 Yeah sure, and that's definitely something you can take into account.
@@radiofloyd2359 it's very dependant on the person- a big problem with the topic is overgeneralization, making it seem like this is how *everyone* acts when they're lying, and not just some people who happen to have those traits when they do lie. it's like saying that everyone who has a runny nose definitely has the flu, without acknowledging all the other reasons why you could have one.
"This isn't a pseudoscience," says the man sitting next to a salt lamp
"body language experts" are why i hate conversations. If I'm actively responding appropriately to conversation, I'm invested in conversation. it doesn't matter which way my body is facing, or how i'm fidgeting, or if i'm making eye contact. like damn leave me alone, let me be autistic in peace
I'm NOT neurodivergent, and i exhibit "telltale signs" of lying in normal conversations all the time. From posture, to sitting or standing position, to eye focus. It's mostly about what is physically comfortable to me at the time, what i'm focusing on, etc. It has nothing to do with the truth or lack thereof in regards to the conversation.
Nice avatar
Lol, true. Just don't look at me, please.
You can't stop me. The view is free.
REAL ASF
It's kinda terrifying to me how easy it is for people to be misread as "deceptive" or "suspicious" simply for being anxious and/or socially awkward. Combined with the fact that it's not exactly unheard of for innocent people to get locked away for years on almost no evidence, and yeah, just think about the fact that someone's life could be ruined because they were anxious around authority figures and people decided that meant they were guilty of a crime. That's fun 🙃
@Ronnie and I I'm so sorry to hear that happened to you. People suck sometimes. I'm glad you have your pets, they can really be a lifesaver. I have a dog and a cat too, they mean the world to me.
@Ronnie and I I know what you mean, the world seems to be going to hell in a handbasket these days. My mom always says "the pendulum always swings the other way eventually" and I sure hope she's right.
My dog Brèagha (bree-a) is a Border Collie, she's 5 now and I've had her since she was 8 weeks old. I can't even explain how special she is to me, she is truly my soulmate. My cat Cornifer I just got last week, but he is already my son haha! He is an orange tabby kitten that was living with his mom and siblings in the woods behind a dentist place. Fortunately they all found homes now. I feel like my little fam is complete now, a cat and a dog.
Also, there have been political, famous, rich people who literally pay someone to coach them how not to look guilty. So that is even further reason this shit isn't even fair.
Always infuriates me that being defensive is considered suspicious. Even just saying "if you were innocent you wouldn't be so defensive" like what the hell? Have they ever been accused of something they have never done?
Innocent people have died because they were "anxious" around a badge. Getting locked away and losing the right to vote and losing the ability to get a decent job; that's the "good" outcome.
I remember watching "Lie to Me" with my dad and he told me during the episode how he has been learning a lot from it. He said, "For example, right now I can tell that you're anxious because you're touching your nails" and I said, "No, I'm touching them because they feel smooth" 😅
pathologizing every little behavior in people is so dangerous, this kind of crap is why people get mad at someone for 'staring' at them when you're sitting across from them and vaguely looking over their shoulder because you're zoned out. It's not that serious kids.
And why do people like to touch smooth things? Because it's satisfying? Because its....comforting? And when you're anxious you're uncomfortable and so you seek comfort. It's not science, it's just human nature, common sense AND some context.
@jennapeneueta-snyder200 It really wasn't that deep. I'm not feeling particularly anxious or uncomfortable sitting on the couch watching TV with my dad.
@@jennapeneueta-snyder200no, we just like how they feel. I'm always touching my fave or hair. Not because im anxious, but because I have ADHD and will subconsciously clean myself regardless of mental state. I also constantly hum, shake my head, and tap my fingers. None of these are conscious behaviors, and they all happen regardless of my mood or whether or not I'm lying.
Every behavior associated with lyinh in body language analysis is also a common way for neurodivergent people to stim.
@@jennapeneueta-snyder200 I mean... my leg keeps tapping the ground whenever I'm focused, unless I stop it from doing it, which means I'm not focused.
It bring me no comfort, and it's annoying as f*ck on the rare occasions it breaks my focus in long design sessions.
On that note, me getting the zoomies when I worked back in McD in my late teens must have meant that I was anxious about telling customers the BigMac costs 4$ which in turn means I've always lied about the prices of things!
Once upon a time a body profiler gave a seminar to a police department.
20 years later innocent people are still in prison.
i tend to uncontrollably laugh hard when upset and unconsciously smile at basically every emotion, it’s led to a lot of ppl not taking me seriously or even getting mad thinking im making fun of them when really im just scared/nervous
Samesies!
My go to coping mechanism for stressful situations is extremely bad jokes. These can rage from terrible puns, to sexual obscenities, to the sorts of jokes that would be considered too low blows for an episode of South Park. I also get really bad cases of what I have dubbed funeral giggles. It's like there only so much stress my brain can take before I need to go hyena mode. To outsiders I look like a sociopath but it's just how I survive: that which doesn't kill you leaves you with a fucked up sense of humor.
!!! YES. My mom used to get so angry at me and my brother for this exact kind of thing (smiling and laughing when we were in trouble/being yelled at), thinking we were mocking her, and we absolutely were NOT. If anything we were trying to appease her! Body language is so complicated, other than very, VERY broad trends in cultural norms (e.g., how close, say, Germans tend to prefer to have casual face-to-face conversations vs. how close Pakistanis prefer to have the same conversations) it's so hard to figure out what body language is "supposed" to tell us...bc it's such bullshit.
same! recently i almost stabbed myself with a bunch of huge falling kitchen knives (dw abt it) and everyone was like ''wtf why are you laughing its not funny'' and i was just like idk! im actually super stressed!
same. i’ve been accused of lying and it’s like i have this uncontrollable urge to smile/laugh as i try to deny it. so annoying fr. its like my initial response to getting flustered.
As a linguist, my field as a "soft science" is so often equated with shit like this and it's so frustrating. Thank you for this!
Hi, Sarah. I teach Business English. Do you mind elaborating a bit?
Your field is bullshit too, just try to find evidence for any of Chomsky's "ideas."
I just have a non-academic obsession with linguistics, in particular with the subfield of constructed languages/interlinguistics, and anyone who says linguistics isn't a real science should be sentenced to trying to explain the difference between [ə] and [ʌ] to a class of freshmen.
what do you do as a linguist? sounds cool.
@@tjenadonn6158 It's honestly far more of an art form than a science. You just need to understand what science is to see why considering it science is a bigger joke than considering Economics science.
I'm autistic and body language "science" is terrifying. It's also such absolutely bunk. Thank you so much. 💜💜💜
I was thinking about this all the time! How this "telling" gestures could just be the product of someone being neurodivergent - among a lot of other things, of course, but it does not seem to take into account that possibility at all
@@found13 THIS. Never, ever talk to cops, always get an attorney 💜
Literally every time I see these body language things, they talk about avoiding eye contact, fidgeting and having an unusual gait. You couldn't target autistic people with more precision if you tried!
@@sofiipote7 I had seen on Tumblr a post with a huge list of supposed "signs" of lying that were actually common behaviours for neurodivergent people and it's incredibly terrifying how many of them there are.
this is exactly why i don’t like it! it’s not that i’m avoiding your eyes and fidgeting because I’m lying, it’s because i’m autistic. i’ve had so many people accuse me of lying about something or being untrustworthy because of my autistic traits that it’s not even funny anymore.