Great video!! Just a suggestion, when you are talking about a bonus, you can print it's description available in tech tree so we can quickly get what exactly tech does
A bonus point for Poles to me as well, might be counterintuitive: but once you've gotten through early and mid-game well, their bonuses, techs and units simply make it so that you'll somewhat simply get into the typical post-Imp situation way later. Which I guess could be considered weird to count into a post-imp list, but I personally see a strongly delayed pressure to get into your (as well really strong) post-imp options - which with other civs would have been the case simply by game time/ resources spent/ powerful units created - as one of the strongest early post-imp bonuses, seeing post-imp as more of a state of the game/ timewindow dictated by both players, not only one. As poles, ignoring their really strong food bonus, you can have knights being super cheap on gold, thus making your gold last longer. You have an really efficient and effective unique unit, which also is tanky, only 20 on gold, and you get way more gold than anyone else (except burgundians through UT, and ignoring relics ofc), in a constant trickle for even more convenience, through the stone mining gold bonus. All that just sets up your late post-imp so well, it feels to me like if you get into later mid-game/ early imp situations in an average position which would mean 50/50 with most others, without a super unlucky civ-matchup against a high tier cavalry and infantry counter-civ (against poles only gurjaras and hindustanis honestly come to mind for me), unlucky moments or super clever strat by your opponent, poles should win way more often than not, as everything builds up so well.
I think of being able to get gold while mining stone as really good in the early game, too, because you can build towers and castles while still building units. Plus, your villagers heal, so Poles are really hard to kill off in the early game, and many early rushes are hard to execute against them. But then, if you don't disturb the Poles, they can just castle drop you. I think Poles are weak in middle Imp when other civs reach their maximum power and still have access to gold, but they can still take decent trades and just starve out the opponent.
hot take : for an upcoming patch, would that be too crazy to take away the Cavalier and, maybe, the Knight for the Tatars, Cumans and Mongols and buff the Steppe Lancer so it becomes somewhat of a replacement? It would be more historically accurate for those "steppe" civs to rely mostly on light cavalry and would mirror the other civs lacking heavy cavalry but having access to better all-around camels, Shrivamsha Rider, or Eagle Warrior
I use Lancers quite a lot as Cumans. Steppe Lancers could easily spiral out of control and become OP with even a small buff. They create super quick and once massed already do well against Xbow, Knights and even camels. This can snowball easily because you can replace your army of Lancers quicker than the opponent. Historical inaccuracy is something we generally have to accept as a tradeoff for proper balancing in this great game.
Lacners are already amazing yet underrated as shit, I have won some matchups that I shouldn’t have with mongol steppe lancers in particular (against the polish unique unit for example)
I'd love to see a version of this video for post imp civs for team games (or any map where there is tons of gold). Where something like Korean deathball could be in play
A few probable top civs: - Spanish: awesome trade for the team + conqs + lots of imperial techs - Mongols: Mangudai good unit, next. Also incredible siege - Persians: Infinite resources? Biggest Elephantos are hard to match. - Koreans: Great siege + Wagons deathball - Khmer: Elephant + Ballista Elephant deathball - Magyars: Ridiculously good cav +cavarcher (for open maps)
@@HeraAgeofEmpires2 regarding the post imp civs lets not forget about burmese(+3 halb ; hussar +5 vs archers; the skirm is only lacking armor) and persians(trash xbow&fully upped hussar+halb) Just so ya know, you kinda blew it pal 🤣
As always, great content! I must point out though that the title is misleading. It should've been "best post imp trash civs" instead. Cause When you say post imp, it is possible to have massed cav archers + hussars, so in that case I would've guessed Mangudai + Hussar, Camel Archer + Hussar or Recurve Bow CA + Magyar Huszar
This should probably be called "best trash civilizations" because post imperial usually means the technological apex of a civ, regardless of gold access (as is the meaning of the game option). Still a good list. Initially I thought pole hussars would die too easily to archers, but their food economy is so good that they can usually just trample archers (literally) through sheer spam. I'd probably put turks or tatars there as a honorable over spanish because of very tanky CA, which is something that the berbers kinda do too. It's important to preserve gold units in a trash war.
Even though I agree with this list I feel like in practice it's tricky as their are a lot of factors going into a trash war that can make a difference. For example, no one ever thinks of siege when it comes to trash wars, but I feel like having great siege does help a lot in trash wars or ofc a unit good against siege. Some ranged units like Mangudai or Mamelukes also tend to stick around even in post-imp situations and make a difference because they are ranged, hard to kill off, and either kill or protect siege. For example, I won a game fairly recently as Saracens against Magyars that went to post-imp because I had a healthy amount of Mamelukes left over and could get gold from selling to get siege out while flooding Hussar. Granted, it didn't go super long into post-imp, but it was still mainly a trash war.
An addition to poles: I play poles most of the time and I recognized something. If there's the point where the enemy runs out of gold, you will still have plenty of gold! Because you get gold while mining stone, thus you will have more gold automatically and moreover one of their strongest options the obuch is so cheap gold wise. And the knight line with their unique tech gets also dirt cheap. So as a conclusion you have more gold than a normal civ, but you will spend less... Ergo you will have plenty of gold at the point where the enemy runs out of gold.... So eben before you need to utilize their post imp play you can play normal imp play, while your enemy is already in post imp 😍👌
@@ninggengjapchae I think they deserve the honorable mention. After all, Trashbows combine the faster fire rate of the Dravidian Skirms, the lack of minimum range of the Incas and the +1 Dmg of the Aztecs, all that for the cheap price of 60 wood. They even deal 2 dmg to Hussars, so with proper protection, which the Persians can afford, they become a competent DPS unit.
if look at the civ list in this video, most of these civs excel at the late game when the gold starts to run out….in other words, all of them should have a good trash unit options. having no pikes and blast furnace can be a trouble for gurjaras.
I think the feitorias are overly underestimated bc they allow u to focus on military only if u use your villages to construct enough of them and they are surrounded by a good defense like a good number of castles. After that, forget about your villages and send them to do another base and whatever building to give trouble to your adversary while u control your army. If they die, u won't cry a single drop and instead will build even more army.
As for the Lithuanians, they get halbs with 1 less melee armor and 2 less attack. They lack the last armor and the last attack upgrades. Their unique tech makes up for it.. Partially.
I always found it interesting in that 1v1 post-imp is almost the opposite of team game post-imp. In 1v1 late game gold becomes the most valuable resource because of its scarcity. Whereas in team games eventually gold becomes the most widely available resource and players will even use it to buy wood.
I would have mentioned Goths. They do get both hussars and elite skirms (although with no bonus) but mostly they have the cheapest halbs, produced instantly thanks to Perfusion. And thanks to their bonus against buildings, you don't actually need siege to take down a castle, meaning you can invest you market gold into a bunch of dirt cheap huskarls who will invalidate enemy skirms. Now obviously, any game against goth is unlikely to ever reach that point but I'm pretty sure they would fare well even against an opponent who manages to somehow endure the flood until gold runs out.
Hi Hera. I think slavs deserved an honourable mention. They might not be the best getting into post imp but oncethey get therei find it really hard to counter their druzinha halb+ hussar. Like i find skirms pretty lack luster in these situations.
The video title should be "Top5 best TRASH civs", because now it suggest post-imp., fully upgraded, ultimate civilization's deathballs. Mangudaï for instance should already have been paid for and still be around. The Mongol post-imp. deathball of THE mangudaï, drill-siege and beefy hussars is the game's strongest imo.
@@0skaremil It's not that bad. 5+3 attack means they do twice the damage per hit against fully upgraded hussar that skirms would do and factoring in the lower reload time it is 3 times the damage over time. And vs Halbs they also do way better than skirms, because of the lower reload time and 1 more pierce attack.
For the Bulgarians you forgot that their 2h swordsmen are unkillable with the unique tech. Yes they cost 20 gold which is basically 100 food/wood but well worth the cost as they take down buildings and no trash unit can take them down unless its 6 against 1.
The skirms are honestly not too bad in trash wars, cos in that situation they are a backline unit for killing halbs so just having bracer is nice But they are complete ass as a counter unit to xbow, ca or arbs
Bohemians deserved a spot there. Halbs with extra bonus damage + fully upgraded skirm + 3-4 houfnice. The hounice make all the difference here because just 3-4 of them destroy buildings quickly and with a slow but steady push i dont remember a game that i lost with bohemians which went very late.
Teutons>Malay>Byz>Bulgarians>Goths>Lith>Magyars>Sicilians>Malians>Dravidians my top 10 list. Don't know where I would put poles in that list. Poles is really depending on the situation, cause whilst poles can spam units like crazy they are also very vulnerable to raids themselves and have no halbs to deal with that. TBH I think all the 10 other civs have actually better lategame cause they not only have strengths, but also basically no weaknesses. Teutons are top cause the TK is just wiping the floor with all trash units in the game. Yes it costs gold, but it also basically never dies. Just a few of them mixed in your army and no civ that hasn't access to gold has any chance (except dravidians maybe). Same is also almost true for the bulgarian 2HS. Out of concurrence are ofc Portuguese with the feitoria. I also want to mention that keeping alive some kind of backline (eg cav archers, but ca be anything with good attack). Is worth a lot in the super lategame. Whoever does this has a big advantage over all pure trash comps. What I miss a bit is also some reflection of the impact of good siege and/or defences in the lategame. Also some civs have kind of good lategame but can't really use it effectively as they usually invest a lot of gold in the midgame. Berbers is one of these examples. They usually fall in a hole after burning through their gold super fast. Other civs rarely get in pure trash fight sitaitons because of the other efect around. Poles is one of these. Also Malians and byzantines burn usually a lot slower through their Gold than other civs.
Are Dravidians #1? They have 25% faster attacking skirms and Halbs which ignore armour and cheaper to tech into! They also have the deadly infantry Urumi and fast-firing Elephant archers, with an option for Bombard Cannons and FU Arbalester too! They are underwhelming in castle age and overwhelming in Imperial age!
Nice list. I'd probably prefer Byzantines over Poles, a game has to go on for really, really long for a HCA ball to actually go down, imo this is very rare. Especially given that Poles have nothing to counter CA/HCA
I honestly thought #1 is gonna be Portuguese. Talking about what to do when gold runs out, but with that civ the gold doesn't run out... Lost at least 7-8 super frustrating games against a Portuguese player who just turtled endlessly until some important res(gold or even wood on some maps) runs out and then even though I fought better fights and killed a lot more units for the whole game, I still can't deal with the feitoria eco, defended by halbs or skirms or bombards, + castles and towers. If you don't kill earlier this is imo the most annoying composition to fight against.
I like slavs a lot and I'm surprised it's not up here but the Druihaza tech with infantry and discount siege and castles makes trash wars and low gold and stone fights advantageous for them
good video! the Poles are great in late game, but I think you missed the Persians. fully upgraded hussar and halb with trashbows is the best trash you can get in my opinion
i feel like with this list now existing, you should make a top list of mid-game civs... mainly just because i wanna see Bohemians a the top for once (RIP all my Bohemian mains...)
Mayans could be on that list, at least on the honourable mentions. Respurces last longer, Plumer Archers are a strong unit and their Eagle Warriors have SO MUCH HP. 🐔
hey man - thanks for the video, just want to wish you luck and focus on RBW, very impressive game this few month and im sure these vids will help you with your civ pickups
I don't understand why malay is not No 1. And spanisch is imo a top 5 too, because the blacksmith upgrades without gold. Normaly you upgrade until post imp a melee line and the range line, and when your gold runs out this is a great bonus to complete your trash options. The spanish is the only civ who has complet fully upgraded trash units + the strong vills. Imo, spanish is my no. 2 for post imp.
Poles post Imp is so nasty. Makes sense honestly, plus with the stone mining bonus it's pretty easy to mix in whatever you need, a few Obuch, or a few Arbalest, or a bombard. Sick late game
I like dravidians as well. Quicker firing skirms, armor ignoring halbs are great. Yes their cav is lackluster - I guess that‘s was hera didn‘t like them 😂
Lithuanians lately lost Blast Furnace which only matters on their Halbs. so you have speedy Halbs with 2 less attack. And the Winged hussar as the tradeoff.
The fact that Spanish get sappers & powerful villagers seems a bit oddly strong in late cases no? Or even in Trash Wars does this not make much of a difference. And I want my Vietnamese to get that final Hussar upgrade or *better yet*, the final melee attack upgrade.
Vietnamese also have paper money that now gives a slow trickle of gold, worth a few relics. Definitely an underrated trash civ, although their light Cav are serviceable and not great, so I can see why Hera wouldn't put them in the top 5. Hera does love his hussars. Heck, I'm kind of surprised turks aren't on here solely on account of their strong hussars, despite the rest of their trash being, well, trash.
I agree with you on the cheap units being more useful than a stronger one, but early to mid game tho : I feel like your opponent and you are likely gonna be at 200 pop so in that scenario, I prefer that my pop space is taken by stronger unit, no?
So it depends, you have 200 pop. But what’s the villager count? Cheaper units = less vills = more army. But pop efficiency is important too, but less relevant for trash as they have low damage compared to a war wagon or war elephant
@@leonardtobin6070 right I didn't think about that, I just supposed both players would be at 120 vils or so... And I just realized that cheaper units means you can squeeze in a more expansive one here and there like a siege weapon or heavy cavalry
Thing is, most games don't get to 200 pop. Not even on closed maps, despite what you'd expect of those. There's a reason Arena specialists are notorious for their 1 TC monk/siege/castle drop pushes.
@@teddyhaines6613 you’re right and that’s usually due to the bonuses etc but in fairness this video focuses in on the 200 post imp so you should be there or there abouts
Duddddeee what how are slavs not on here? Only missing one upgrade plus druzhina making their halberdiers extremely powerful and cheap castles so you have them everywhere.
Another indirect bonus for the poles is that they need less farmers due to the fulwark, so they have more population for military, so not only they'll have a strong unit but will also outnumber the enemy
The hussar raid guy putting the hussar printer civ at #1 is a sure surprise lmao. But i agree, on top of having light cav with the best damage output and trample, their other units are also very gold efficient. Knight line becomes really cheap and spammable with the ut, even if you lack last upgrade and last armor they can hold vs other top tier heavy cav just because of how cheap they are on gold and how crazy poles food eco is. The obuch is also light on gold and a very solid infantry. And they get maxed skirms so they can counter halbs in the frontlines
What about Saracens? Their market bonus works at bottomed out prices! They get a lot more gold for their food/wood to spend on what they please. Champions or Heavy Camels, or siege. Good techs all around, FU Hussars too.
In these rankings I always miss the Siege Ram kicker. especially if you dont have halbs Trebs are so squishy and expensive. Poles are so dumb. great farms, great Trash options and as a kicker they also run out of Gold later bc they get some for free.
Flashing back to when Hera first inspected the Poles' tech tree, and became inconsolably upset upon seeing that their Winged Hussars lacked the final armor upgrade.
Post imp composition should be with gold units ... One gold unit with one support unit ... Like Bohemian Houfnice with Halbs , which kinda have no easy counter ... Mongol Mangudai plus hussar ... Celts - Halbs and Siege Onagers
I would also consider gurjaras. may not have halbs but hussars are cheap and cause extra damage. if food supply from livestock can keep coming, you can go all in with hussars and camel.
Aren’t they missing bracer and blast furnace? The entire theme of Malians seem to be the monkey paw wish. You get a nice bonus, but there’s a catch. (Massive powerspike for cavalry, but no paladin/hussar/blast furnace, pierce armour bonus for infantry, but no halberdiers/blast furnace, near full archer tech tree but no bracer)
I honestly quite agree with your top 5 plus the honorable mentions. I was tempted to perhaps add goths because of their massive discount + creation speed for halbs + decent other trash options but thinking again most post imp matches have some sort of defensive, static nature going on that the goths with architecture alone can't overcome compared to other civs, like the byz or the vietnamese.
Honestly, I think Dravidian trash is really good too. They have Wotz steel Halb, faster firing Skirms and a full siege tech tree although no siege engineers. Yes, their Light cav is really weak but with wotz steel, they can do as much damage as a Hussar.
Malay swords+halb composition rolls any post imp composition other civs can throw. Biz and Berbers doesn't seem strong at all. Biz has low pop efficiency and berber genitur suck because it gets countered by halbs. Slavs should make into the list - fully upgraded hussar with faster farmers + druzina halbs.
I disagree with this list a lot, because it does not consider siege and gold units with staying power. You can sustain a ball of CA type units very long after the gold has run out if you have relics and take good fights. Also, Siege Ram is very important if you want to take out castles without spending a lot of gold.
Always be skeptical about analysis videos. The simple fact is that you can test plenty of scenarios, but they will never be the same as a real game against human opponents.
Lithuanian halbs are actually going to be bad in halb vs halb fights. They are missing the last attack and armor upgrades resulting in a difference of 3 hp when exchanging hits. At least the reinforcements will get to the fight a little faster lol
Something that I feel can be confusing with lists like this. Does the ranking have anything to do with the ABILITY to get to post Imp? Like if a hypothetical civ auto loses in every single age but are unstoppable when gold runs out, would they be number 1 or not even on the list since they can’t get to post imp?
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Great video!! Just a suggestion, when you are talking about a bonus, you can print it's description available in tech tree so we can quickly get what exactly tech does
A bonus point for Poles to me as well, might be counterintuitive: but once you've gotten through early and mid-game well, their bonuses, techs and units simply make it so that you'll somewhat simply get into the typical post-Imp situation way later. Which I guess could be considered weird to count into a post-imp list, but I personally see a strongly delayed pressure to get into your (as well really strong) post-imp options - which with other civs would have been the case simply by game time/ resources spent/ powerful units created - as one of the strongest early post-imp bonuses, seeing post-imp as more of a state of the game/ timewindow dictated by both players, not only one. As poles, ignoring their really strong food bonus, you can have knights being super cheap on gold, thus making your gold last longer. You have an really efficient and effective unique unit, which also is tanky, only 20 on gold, and you get way more gold than anyone else (except burgundians through UT, and ignoring relics ofc), in a constant trickle for even more convenience, through the stone mining gold bonus. All that just sets up your late post-imp so well, it feels to me like if you get into later mid-game/ early imp situations in an average position which would mean 50/50 with most others, without a super unlucky civ-matchup against a high tier cavalry and infantry counter-civ (against poles only gurjaras and hindustanis honestly come to mind for me), unlucky moments or super clever strat by your opponent, poles should win way more often than not, as everything builds up so well.
yea, getting gold while mining stone for instance just increases your total gold access by a lot
I think of being able to get gold while mining stone as really good in the early game, too, because you can build towers and castles while still building units. Plus, your villagers heal, so Poles are really hard to kill off in the early game, and many early rushes are hard to execute against them. But then, if you don't disturb the Poles, they can just castle drop you. I think Poles are weak in middle Imp when other civs reach their maximum power and still have access to gold, but they can still take decent trades and just starve out the opponent.
hot take : for an upcoming patch, would that be too crazy to take away the Cavalier and, maybe, the Knight for the Tatars, Cumans and Mongols and buff the Steppe Lancer so it becomes somewhat of a replacement? It would be more historically accurate for those "steppe" civs to rely mostly on light cavalry and would mirror the other civs lacking heavy cavalry but having access to better all-around camels, Shrivamsha Rider, or Eagle Warrior
A hot take that should be warmly received
I use Lancers quite a lot as Cumans.
Steppe Lancers could easily spiral out of control and become OP with even a small buff.
They create super quick and once massed already do well against Xbow, Knights and even camels.
This can snowball easily because you can replace your army of Lancers quicker than the opponent.
Historical inaccuracy is something we generally have to accept as a tradeoff for proper balancing in this great game.
Lacners are already amazing yet underrated as shit, I have won some matchups that I shouldn’t have with mongol steppe lancers in particular (against the polish unique unit for example)
@@noidontwantthat7237 almost as unexpected as the Spanish Inquisition🤣
@@atomickipachaka821 yea, if they buff them it will be like the first few weeks after release. they dominated everything
I'd love to see a version of this video for post imp civs for team games (or any map where there is tons of gold). Where something like Korean deathball could be in play
A few probable top civs:
- Spanish: awesome trade for the team + conqs + lots of imperial techs
- Mongols: Mangudai good unit, next. Also incredible siege
- Persians: Infinite resources? Biggest Elephantos are hard to match.
- Koreans: Great siege + Wagons deathball
- Khmer: Elephant + Ballista Elephant deathball
- Magyars: Ridiculously good cav +cavarcher (for open maps)
Good idea
@@HeraAgeofEmpires2 regarding the post imp civs lets not forget about burmese(+3 halb ; hussar +5 vs archers; the skirm is only lacking armor) and persians(trash xbow&fully upped hussar+halb)
Just so ya know, you kinda blew it pal 🤣
@@grraf1 you got a point wih these 2 civs but your comment makes you sound very immature, maybe try to work on that :)
@@Klautsche hence why humor is a subjective matter and some will fail to get it 🤪
As always, great content! I must point out though that the title is misleading. It should've been "best post imp trash civs" instead. Cause When you say post imp, it is possible to have massed cav archers + hussars, so in that case I would've guessed Mangudai + Hussar, Camel Archer + Hussar or Recurve Bow CA + Magyar Huszar
This should probably be called "best trash civilizations" because post imperial usually means the technological apex of a civ, regardless of gold access (as is the meaning of the game option).
Still a good list. Initially I thought pole hussars would die too easily to archers, but their food economy is so good that they can usually just trample archers (literally) through sheer spam.
I'd probably put turks or tatars there as a honorable over spanish because of very tanky CA, which is something that the berbers kinda do too. It's important to preserve gold units in a trash war.
Even though I agree with this list I feel like in practice it's tricky as their are a lot of factors going into a trash war that can make a difference. For example, no one ever thinks of siege when it comes to trash wars, but I feel like having great siege does help a lot in trash wars or ofc a unit good against siege. Some ranged units like Mangudai or Mamelukes also tend to stick around even in post-imp situations and make a difference because they are ranged, hard to kill off, and either kill or protect siege. For example, I won a game fairly recently as Saracens against Magyars that went to post-imp because I had a healthy amount of Mamelukes left over and could get gold from selling to get siege out while flooding Hussar. Granted, it didn't go super long into post-imp, but it was still mainly a trash war.
An addition to poles:
I play poles most of the time and I recognized something. If there's the point where the enemy runs out of gold, you will still have plenty of gold!
Because you get gold while mining stone, thus you will have more gold automatically and moreover one of their strongest options the obuch is so cheap gold wise. And the knight line with their unique tech gets also dirt cheap.
So as a conclusion you have more gold than a normal civ, but you will spend less... Ergo you will have plenty of gold at the point where the enemy runs out of gold.... So eben before you need to utilize their post imp play you can play normal imp play, while your enemy is already in post imp 😍👌
I thought Persians could be in the top or in the honorable mentions.
Nice tierlist Hera!
Trashbows r not that impressive......
Trashbows are awful if they had bracer it could be good otherwise it's like a slightly better skrim, can not kill hussar or only halbs mostly
@@ninggengjapchae They compliment the FU Halbs/Hussars nicely. It's basicly an upgrade to the skirmisher.
@@unimportantcommenter4356 trashbow cannot change meta like Malays THS or Poles winged hussar. Still shreded by mass hussar.
@@ninggengjapchae I think they deserve the honorable mention. After all, Trashbows combine the faster fire rate of the Dravidian Skirms, the lack of minimum range of the Incas and the +1 Dmg of the Aztecs, all that for the cheap price of 60 wood. They even deal 2 dmg to Hussars, so with proper protection, which the Persians can afford, they become a competent DPS unit.
I feel really comfortable playing post imp with Gurjaras. Shivavas are gold friendly.
if look at the civ list in this video, most of these civs excel at the late game when the gold starts to run out….in other words, all of them should have a good trash unit options. having no pikes and blast furnace can be a trouble for gurjaras.
"Maybe the #1 will surprise you" Okay in that case it must be Turks! 🤣
What about Portuguese. Not only the y have nice trash units, but Also they have the infinite tower/castle spam with feitorias
Its up there
I think the feitorias are overly underestimated bc they allow u to focus on military only if u use your villages to construct enough of them and they are surrounded by a good defense like a good number of castles. After that, forget about your villages and send them to do another base and whatever building to give trouble to your adversary while u control your army. If they die, u won't cry a single drop and instead will build even more army.
As for the Lithuanians, they get halbs with 1 less melee armor and 2 less attack. They lack the last armor and the last attack upgrades. Their unique tech makes up for it.. Partially.
I always found it interesting in that 1v1 post-imp is almost the opposite of team game post-imp. In 1v1 late game gold becomes the most valuable resource because of its scarcity. Whereas in team games eventually gold becomes the most widely available resource and players will even use it to buy wood.
Aztecs having more gold due to their bonus, garland wars pikeman and atlatl sirmishers deserves a honorable mantion the way I see it.
Good choice imho. These are always fun to watch, thanks!
I'd like to see the same list for team games. Thanks!
I would have mentioned Goths. They do get both hussars and elite skirms (although with no bonus) but mostly they have the cheapest halbs, produced instantly thanks to Perfusion. And thanks to their bonus against buildings, you don't actually need siege to take down a castle, meaning you can invest you market gold into a bunch of dirt cheap huskarls who will invalidate enemy skirms. Now obviously, any game against goth is unlikely to ever reach that point but I'm pretty sure they would fare well even against an opponent who manages to somehow endure the flood until gold runs out.
dravidians are underrated. depending on the map their woodsteel halbs plus skirms can be deadly. If you can prevent raids its crazy
Dravidians have the best overall trash imo. Even their awful light cav can do surprisingly well thanks to wootz steel again
He thinks everyone plays ranked garbage maps and ranked in general lol. A lot of people just play death match and shit it’s more fun
Hi Hera. I think slavs deserved an honourable mention. They might not be the best getting into post imp but oncethey get therei find it really hard to counter their druzinha halb+ hussar. Like i find skirms pretty lack luster in these situations.
they die against scorps and cannons so maybe not among the best.
Trash wars....
Nice content Hera, how about Persians crossbow trash ?
The video title should be "Top5 best TRASH civs", because now it suggest post-imp., fully upgraded, ultimate civilization's deathballs. Mangudaï for instance should already have been paid for and still be around. The Mongol post-imp. deathball of THE mangudaï, drill-siege and beefy hussars is the game's strongest imo.
Something else to consider for the poles is their stone to hold bonus. So your good with theoretically run out later than other civs
No mention for the Persian Trashbows? It's not the best unit but a different type of trash unit that other's don't have.
Only issue is their damage output is basically the same as a skirmisher, because of lag of upgrades
@@0skaremil It's not that bad. 5+3 attack means they do twice the damage per hit against fully upgraded hussar that skirms would do and factoring in the lower reload time it is 3 times the damage over time. And vs Halbs they also do way better than skirms, because of the lower reload time and 1 more pierce attack.
For the Bulgarians you forgot that their 2h swordsmen are unkillable with the unique tech. Yes they cost 20 gold which is basically 100 food/wood but well worth the cost as they take down buildings and no trash unit can take them down unless its 6 against 1.
I play poles a lot and have Hassar’s or the cheaper knights. Which one is better for a cavalry late game option?
Burmese not even in the honorable mention 😢 - Manipur Hussar + 13 attack halbs (FU) are insane but i guess e skirms are lackluster
Skirms weak.
The skirms are honestly not too bad in trash wars, cos in that situation they are a backline unit for killing halbs so just having bracer is nice
But they are complete ass as a counter unit to xbow, ca or arbs
Burmese maybe top 10?
Bohemians deserved a spot there. Halbs with extra bonus damage + fully upgraded skirm + 3-4 houfnice. The hounice make all the difference here because just 3-4 of them destroy buildings quickly and with a slow but steady push i dont remember a game that i lost with bohemians which went very late.
Malay, food Champs and most of the infantry techs is just too good.
Teutons>Malay>Byz>Bulgarians>Goths>Lith>Magyars>Sicilians>Malians>Dravidians my top 10 list. Don't know where I would put poles in that list. Poles is really depending on the situation, cause whilst poles can spam units like crazy they are also very vulnerable to raids themselves and have no halbs to deal with that. TBH I think all the 10 other civs have actually better lategame cause they not only have strengths, but also basically no weaknesses.
Teutons are top cause the TK is just wiping the floor with all trash units in the game. Yes it costs gold, but it also basically never dies. Just a few of them mixed in your army and no civ that hasn't access to gold has any chance (except dravidians maybe). Same is also almost true for the bulgarian 2HS.
Out of concurrence are ofc Portuguese with the feitoria.
I also want to mention that keeping alive some kind of backline (eg cav archers, but ca be anything with good attack). Is worth a lot in the super lategame. Whoever does this has a big advantage over all pure trash comps.
What I miss a bit is also some reflection of the impact of good siege and/or defences in the lategame. Also some civs have kind of good lategame but can't really use it effectively as they usually invest a lot of gold in the midgame. Berbers is one of these examples. They usually fall in a hole after burning through their gold super fast. Other civs rarely get in pure trash fight sitaitons because of the other efect around. Poles is one of these. Also Malians and byzantines burn usually a lot slower through their Gold than other civs.
Are Dravidians #1? They have 25% faster attacking skirms and Halbs which ignore armour and cheaper to tech into!
They also have the deadly infantry Urumi and fast-firing Elephant archers, with an option for Bombard Cannons and FU Arbalester too!
They are underwhelming in castle age and overwhelming in Imperial age!
Nice list. I'd probably prefer Byzantines over Poles, a game has to go on for really, really long for a HCA ball to actually go down, imo this is very rare. Especially given that Poles have nothing to counter CA/HCA
I honestly thought #1 is gonna be Portuguese. Talking about what to do when gold runs out, but with that civ the gold doesn't run out... Lost at least 7-8 super frustrating games against a Portuguese player who just turtled endlessly until some important res(gold or even wood on some maps) runs out and then even though I fought better fights and killed a lot more units for the whole game, I still can't deal with the feitoria eco, defended by halbs or skirms or bombards, + castles and towers. If you don't kill earlier this is imo the most annoying composition to fight against.
Why is Portuguese with 4-5 feitorias protected by castle spam and bombard tower spam are not mentioned here?
That's exactly what I was wondering.
With infinite resources, they don't ever have to resort to only trash units in the late game.
Love how my fav faction got top
I'm a simple guy, I see Hera's new video and click like even before watching the whole video! Keep it up
Fun video! Also, please, if you get into early castle Knights v Pikes and win please troll. 🙏🏻
I like slavs a lot and I'm surprised it's not up here but the Druihaza tech with infantry and discount siege and castles makes trash wars and low gold and stone fights advantageous for them
My guess for #1 is Malay for the trash 2-handed swords
I guessed #1 correctly when prompted. I prefer the Magyar Hussar though.
i think a post imp civ and a very late game civs are different. i.e when you said post imp, it can also be a post imp start civ such as DM
I laid out my definition to avoid this situation
@@HeraAgeofEmpires2 keep up the good work and good luck in RB! I was too nitpicky :)
good video! the Poles are great in late game, but I think you missed the Persians. fully upgraded hussar and halb with trashbows is the best trash you can get in my opinion
i feel like with this list now existing, you should make a top list of mid-game civs... mainly just because i wanna see Bohemians a the top for once (RIP all my Bohemian mains...)
Dravidians with best halbs and maybe best skirms ind okayesh light cavs should have made the list
Mayans could be on that list, at least on the honourable mentions. Respurces last longer, Plumer Archers are a strong unit and their Eagle Warriors have SO MUCH HP. 🐔
None of the two are trash units, even with resources lasting longer you won't field a double gold comp forever and when it runs out you're out of luck
hey man - thanks for the video, just want to wish you luck and focus on RBW, very impressive game this few month and im sure these vids will help you with your civ pickups
I don't understand why malay is not No 1.
And spanisch is imo a top 5 too, because the blacksmith upgrades without gold.
Normaly you upgrade until post imp a melee line and the range line, and when your gold runs out this is a great bonus to complete your trash options. The spanish is the only civ who has complet fully upgraded trash units + the strong vills.
Imo, spanish is my no. 2 for post imp.
Poles post Imp is so nasty. Makes sense honestly, plus with the stone mining bonus it's pretty easy to mix in whatever you need, a few Obuch, or a few Arbalest, or a bombard. Sick late game
I was definitely expecting Portuguese at some point.
I like dravidians as well. Quicker firing skirms, armor ignoring halbs are great. Yes their cav is lackluster - I guess that‘s was hera didn‘t like them 😂
Lithuanians lately lost Blast Furnace which only matters on their Halbs. so you have speedy Halbs with 2 less attack. And the Winged hussar as the tradeoff.
Also they're unique tech is only +2 pierce armor. So they're Halb is missing 1 melee armor compared to a generic Halb. Still 10% faster though.
Haven’t seen #1 yet but it has to be bohemians , I’ve been playing with them recently online and my win % has skyrocketed
The fact that Spanish get sappers & powerful villagers seems a bit oddly strong in late cases no? Or even in Trash Wars does this not make much of a difference.
And I want my Vietnamese to get that final Hussar upgrade or *better yet*, the final melee attack upgrade.
In straight up super lategame trash war, Malay 2hs destroy any other trash unit or can with some halbs mixed in. That's pretty much it.
Surprised goths didn't make the list with their instant cheap halbs.
Vietnamese also have paper money that now gives a slow trickle of gold, worth a few relics. Definitely an underrated trash civ, although their light Cav are serviceable and not great, so I can see why Hera wouldn't put them in the top 5. Hera does love his hussars.
Heck, I'm kind of surprised turks aren't on here solely on account of their strong hussars, despite the rest of their trash being, well, trash.
What about Portuguese who with Feitoria don't ever run out of wood, gold, stone or food?
I agree with you on the cheap units being more useful than a stronger one, but early to mid game tho : I feel like your opponent and you are likely gonna be at 200 pop so in that scenario, I prefer that my pop space is taken by stronger unit, no?
So it depends, you have 200 pop. But what’s the villager count? Cheaper units = less vills = more army. But pop efficiency is important too, but less relevant for trash as they have low damage compared to a war wagon or war elephant
@@leonardtobin6070 right I didn't think about that, I just supposed both players would be at 120 vils or so... And I just realized that cheaper units means you can squeeze in a more expansive one here and there like a siege weapon or heavy cavalry
Thing is, most games don't get to 200 pop. Not even on closed maps, despite what you'd expect of those. There's a reason Arena specialists are notorious for their 1 TC monk/siege/castle drop pushes.
@@teddyhaines6613 you’re right and that’s usually due to the bonuses etc but in fairness this video focuses in on the 200 post imp so you should be there or there abouts
woah woah woah... where's my teutons? Teutons kill all anytime anywhere!!
Duddddeee what how are slavs not on here? Only missing one upgrade plus druzhina making their halberdiers extremely powerful and cheap castles so you have them everywhere.
I'm guessing the number #1 at 4:30. The number one is going to be Poles.
Poles Winged hussar can smash even generic halbs if massed.this is huge. Just spamming winged hussar is fine in most post imp
Top 5 Best Post Imp Civs in Team Games next please ♥
Where is Persians? Persians can beat Poles with Trash Bow, along with fully upgraded Hussar and Halb. They at least belong in Honourable Mentions
No Persians with the trshbows?
I predict number 1 will be portugese. With fetoria eco. But i have no real clue tbh.^^
Another indirect bonus for the poles is that they need less farmers due to the fulwark, so they have more population for military, so not only they'll have a strong unit but will also outnumber the enemy
Persian trashbow?
They are garbage.
No bracer is ugly
‘Hussar’ has been cited 10^10 times
The hussar raid guy putting the hussar printer civ at #1 is a sure surprise lmao. But i agree, on top of having light cav with the best damage output and trample, their other units are also very gold efficient. Knight line becomes really cheap and spammable with the ut, even if you lack last upgrade and last armor they can hold vs other top tier heavy cav just because of how cheap they are on gold and how crazy poles food eco is. The obuch is also light on gold and a very solid infantry. And they get maxed skirms so they can counter halbs in the frontlines
What about Saracens?
Their market bonus works at bottomed out prices! They get a lot more gold for their food/wood to spend on what they please. Champions or Heavy Camels, or siege.
Good techs all around, FU Hussars too.
Also Counterweights help the occssional Treb a lot!
In these rankings I always miss the Siege Ram kicker. especially if you dont have halbs Trebs are so squishy and expensive.
Poles are so dumb. great farms, great Trash options and as a kicker they also run out of Gold later bc they get some for free.
It's neat to see a prominent Hussar enjoyer rate Byzantines so highly despite them lacking Bloodlines!
Wow was expecting Persians at some point they have all the trash units but only lack bracers additionally they have trash xbows
Actually a top 5 hussar civs video
Flashing back to when Hera first inspected the Poles' tech tree, and became inconsolably upset upon seeing that their Winged Hussars lacked the final armor upgrade.
What about Dravidians? with their armor ignoring halbs and faster firing skirms it should be good for post imp.
No Hussar = No Hera top list
Post imp composition should be with gold units ... One gold unit with one support unit ... Like Bohemian Houfnice with Halbs , which kinda have no easy counter ... Mongol Mangudai plus hussar ... Celts - Halbs and Siege Onagers
I would also consider gurjaras. may not have halbs but hussars are cheap and cause extra damage. if food supply from livestock can keep coming, you can go all in with hussars and camel.
What about Malians? +5 attack light cav, and extra pierce armor pikes, seems pretty good no?
Aren’t they missing bracer and blast furnace?
The entire theme of Malians seem to be the monkey paw wish. You get a nice bonus, but there’s a catch. (Massive powerspike for cavalry, but no paladin/hussar/blast furnace, pierce armour bonus for infantry, but no halberdiers/blast furnace, near full archer tech tree but no bracer)
Spanish also get FU champs, Paladins and conqs.
I think u overlooked Burmese Hera.
Nope they just didnt make the cut
Also lithuanian halbs are missing blast furnace so they are not that special. they are speedy, though.
I honestly quite agree with your top 5 plus the honorable mentions. I was tempted to perhaps add goths because of their massive discount + creation speed for halbs + decent other trash options but thinking again most post imp matches have some sort of defensive, static nature going on that the goths with architecture alone can't overcome compared to other civs, like the byz or the vietnamese.
what abour burgundians vineyards & vietnamese wood money?
i thought Persians with their Wood only crossbows
Honestly, I think Dravidian trash is really good too. They have Wotz steel Halb, faster firing Skirms and a full siege tech tree although no siege engineers. Yes, their Light cav is really weak but with wotz steel, they can do as much damage as a Hussar.
for me Tatars and mongols
I say number 1 is Portuguese.
(EDIT: you don't seem to value feitorias in late game)
Malay swords+halb composition rolls any post imp composition other civs can throw. Biz and Berbers doesn't seem strong at all. Biz has low pop efficiency and berber genitur suck because it gets countered by halbs. Slavs should make into the list - fully upgraded hussar with faster farmers + druzina halbs.
what about Mongols
Poles FTW
I disagree with this list a lot, because it does not consider siege and gold units with staying power. You can sustain a ball of CA type units very long after the gold has run out if you have relics and take good fights. Also, Siege Ram is very important if you want to take out castles without spending a lot of gold.
I literally gave a definition saying all gold is out and u can only make siege units in few number as gold units
@@HeraAgeofEmpires2 Well then it's on me for being an idiot 11.
I do question however, their winged hussar isn't that good with trample compared to other races if you see the analysis videos out there.
Always be skeptical about analysis videos. The simple fact is that you can test plenty of scenarios, but they will never be the same as a real game against human opponents.
Lithuanian halbs are actually going to be bad in halb vs halb fights. They are missing the last attack and armor upgrades resulting in a difference of 3 hp when exchanging hits. At least the reinforcements will get to the fight a little faster lol
Nice!
No goths????
bro, what about Portuguese/Saracens ?
Something that I feel can be confusing with lists like this. Does the ranking have anything to do with the ABILITY to get to post Imp? Like if a hypothetical civ auto loses in every single age but are unstoppable when gold runs out, would they be number 1 or not even on the list since they can’t get to post imp?
For me, I think I'd switch poles and Magyars, despite having to make their huszars from castles