Just finished it this morning. “Maybe you don’t have to save anyone, Kaladin. Maybe it’s time for someone to save you.” I felt this moment so much. It was about time someone reminded Kal of it.
Syl brings out the best in Kal. I just melt whenever it’s the two of them. Yes! I thought Shallan would lose her shit when she found out about Kal and her brother. Also, I used to be a die hard Kal+Shallan fan but hell no. Not anymore! Shallan was A MESS in this book. An absolute mess! Also, I am absolutely shocked that Adolin lasted this long. With the world being at war and and chaos, there weren’t a lot of personal moments/interactions between the characters. I’m hopping that that’ll change in the next instalment. There are sooooooo many loose ends - I’m losing my mind. Also, YOU’RE AWESOME! TY!💕
I melt with Syl and Kal too!!! Have you looked up any fanart of them? There are some really beautiful depictions of them that I love :D And yeah, Shallan was just kinda like, "well I guess Kal killed him." I was really surprised that wasn't a bigger deal. And I'm surprised Kal never thought about it? I mean...I'd probably feel pretty bad around a person if I knew I'd killed their brother. But hey, Kal's got a lot on his mind, so I guess it's ok :P Yeah, I used to like the idea of Shallan and Kal together, but not anymore. She WAS a total mess in this book. But that scene at the end when Kal was standing on top of some roof or something, and Shallan and Adolin were down below, almost seemed symbolic to me of where they are in their lives. Shallan and Adolin are still getting over their insecurities and personal issues, and Kal has kinda overcome those (for the most part!). Hahaha, I'm pretty sure Adolin is going to die at some point. Idk, though, I could be wrong! And thank you :D Yay for mutual book love :D :D :D
Elliot Brooks wow that rooftop bit where you said was kinda symbolic is actually on point. Kal’s development was really great here. And YES! Those two are below my goodreads description bit. hahah And as for Adolin, I’ve been saying his days are numbered since the beginning of way of kings and I still couldn’t believe that he lasted this long until I finally found Sanderson’s reason as to why he kept him cause he did say that he was planing to kill him off by end of WoK but he said that he wanted the one person without any magical abilities, the ‘normal’ guy to stay on. And I am SOOO pumped for his new series Skyward to come out in 2018! I can’t wait!
OMG THANK YOU finally someone who sees that Shallan and Adolin's union at the end isn't ideal at all. I don't think Shallan should have gotten together with *anyone* at the end of this book, she's clearly not in a state that's healthy enough for a relationship, let alone a friggin' marriage!
Right?!? I do wonder if Sanderson is going to address that. Maybe they’re going to have problems! I’ve seen some fan theories that wonder if Sanderson will write some kind of cheating plot line or divorce plot line. Idk if it will go that far, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he does something with their relationship. It just felt so rushed to me (not the writing, just their decision to get married) that I can’t help but think maybe something will arise out of that 🤷🏻♀️
Yeah I agree, I've wondered about that too? I wondered if there was going to be a parallel to the Gavilar-Navani-Dalinar love triangle where Adolin dies and then Shallan and Kaladin get together ...? Though tbh right now I don't ship Shalladin just because I think Shallan is turning kinda horrible lol. I dunno what happened because I loved her in WoK and WoR, but in Oathbringer she just plummeted for me, and it made all the the things that bugged me about her in WoR really stand out, so now I just dislike her. I also have a theory that Kaladin is going to turn really important because now that Jezrien has died, there's no patron for the Windrunners any more, so maybe Kaladin will fulfil that role at some point ...? Because let's be real, that boy is destined for great things, and he seems to fulfil the Windrunner qualities much better than Jezrien was shown to do lol (leadership abilities and protectiveness etc.) And that would be super interesting imo because the Windrunner patron is the Herald of Kings, which would be a legendary rise in status for a darkeyes!
@@ebnovels Therapist here, funny thing is Shallan basically has dissociative identity disorder (that's the whole thing with her) and the fact that she ends up with an enabler perfectly fits with her patterns, people that suffer from trauma like her generally have a very hard time picking partners that are good for them (to say the least) I think their union isn't SUPPOSED to be ideal, it's supposed to be the one that LOOKS ideal on the outside, in the same way that Shallan avoids her deep trauma with her own attitude, also the quick marriage is a way to create a sense of security for someone who obviously has NO sense of security, so again, it makes sense to me. Reading Mistborn and Stormlight I have been massively impressed at how well Sanderson really gets mental illness, so for me this is a total winn.
I absolutely agree to almost every point you made. The exact same thoughts ran through my head when I read that Jasnah is back. I mean, at least a scene involving Navani and Jasnah reuniting would have been fine. Jasnah tells Shallan that she would talk to Elhokar about not letting Shallan go with them to Kholinar but that's about it. We are never shown their interaction. And I was really looking forward to that because I really believe Jasnah is a super important character in the series. Another thing was when we were told Kaladin was going to fly to Thaylen with Shallan to activate the oathgate, I was really looking forward to their interaction. I personally find Kaladin and Shallan' s interaction much more engaging and interesting than Shallan and Adolin. They could addressed the Helaran issue in a lot more detail because in WoR, Kaladin is circumspect when he finds out that the guy he killed back was Shallan's brother. They could have also shown Shallan's reactions to lashings and flying for the first time. I think that was a missed opportunity. I also agree to the whole Szeth issue you addressed. The dude almost killed Dalinar not too long ago and is primarily the reason the plot got Kickstarted in WoK. We at least deserved a scene with Dalinar and Szeth talking about things. Or even Szeth and Kaladin. Regarding the love triangle, I have always thought Adolin and Shallan's relation to be dull and bland. Yes, they are extremely attracted to each other but Adolin really doesn't know anything about Shallan. Her fears, her trauma, her insecurities and her terrible past and the accompanying guilt. He knows nothing. While I do think Kaladin Kaladin and Shallan would not work out in the long run, but those issues could have been explored or even worked on if they were a couple instead. Dalinar Ascending was the money shot for me in the book. Dalinar is a very complex and well written character and I want to commend Sanderson on writing him that way.
Completely agree, the interactions with Adolin are boring in comparison to Shallan's and Kals, they both share a simlair pain yet are very different in their own ways. It seems Shallan is still not being honest with herself, she chose Adolin because it was the "right" thing to do and what she assumes others want from her , but in reality its not what she really wants. If this is the end of the love triangle so be it, I can accept that. I just hope she doesn't go bo back on her word to Adolin and it seems thats very likely to happen.
I agree with everything you said! My heart's still broken for Evi. That moment when Adolin was born! And Renarin.. I'm so curious what will happen with him. And when Hoid retold The Girl Who Looked Up with Shallan... Storming man. I was mentally sobbing. I _storming_ love this book! It was so plot and Dalinar focused that the characters we focued on in the previous books kind of slipped out of control a tiny bit, but I loved it. The problem about the love triangle-ish thing is the stuff it represents in each character's growth arch... It isn't about the Shallan/Adolin pairing itself, it's really the fact neither Adolin nor Shallan is ready for such a commitment. I wouldn't have minded the use of Shallan's confusion in her relationships to show her arch, but only if it had been handled better. She wasn't given the time to learn from her experience with either of them. Kaladin could've taught her *a lot* , even as a friend. That conversation about blanking her mind against bad memories ended too abruptly and to me ending it like that, despite the understanding they have, was so forced. Adolin needs some time to grow as well, he's still the "charming and talented because he's charming and talented" prince.. Don't get me wrong, I love him and I don't believe he's a flat character, but he certainly needs some time to toughen up and get out of his comfort zone. Besides, what about all his previous quick-to-fail attempts at "maintaining" a relationship? I understand how Shallan herself made a huge difference, but what about his part in the relationship? Doesn't it take a ton more than just genuineness to keep someone? I kinda disagree though about that him escaping the responsibility was a wrong decision. I can't imagine him king, as I said, he needs time before he is - if ever- ready. Jasnah is a much better fit for the throne.
I was wondering if anyone else shared my views on the love triangle, glad to see i'm not the only one feeling this way. In the end I still feel shallan isn't fully fleshed out and made the wrong decision in choosing Aidolin or any relationship partner right now for that matter. To me it seems she chose Aidolin because it was "the right thing to do," the person she should choose, a person she thinks people want her to choose and is using him as another coping mechanism, rather than admitting what she really wants. The marriage did seem a bit rushed through, honestly I wouldn't mind if this was the end to the love tirangle, in fact I despise love triangles, for how it ruins friendships. However what worries me is that she isn't really over Kallidan and is simply pushing her real feelings aside, trying to hide from them, just like she does with everything else. Now I am not saying Kal is neccesarily the right person for her or that she is the right person for him in the long run, but rushing to marry Aidolin doesn't seem like a smart decsion either given how mentally broken she still is. She has opened up a lot more to Kal than she hever has with Aidolin, so while they're not ideal logically, they seem much more emotionally attuned to each other. Honestly if this it for the flirting between her and Kal I'm fine with it, I rather be done with this, if she has already made her decision. I just don't want Shallan's flip floppiness to be her and those around her's undoing, if she chose Aidolin she better stick with him, instead of tormenting Kal further with her flirting and leading both guys on, hurting both of them. Nevertheless I don't think she should have been with anyone by the end of this book, she's still far too underdeveloped.
I loved LOVED Dalinars flashbacks. When he was ambushed by all the falling rocks and kills them all and than burns down the rift was great. I love grim dark stuff and that part was suuuuper dark.
Thanks for doing a full review of Oathbringer. I was hanging out to hear an in-depth discussion about the book after finishing but everything online is spoiler free at the moment. Very well presented too!
You're welcome :D I loved the book so much. I might like the first one the most because of Kaladin having the flashback story, but I've liked them all. This one did feel a little bit like it was setting up for the fourth one though. I can't wait for that one to come out in, like, three years :D
3 years! 😭 At least in that time he’ll be writing the last of the mistborn era two novels. At the moment I’m busy devouring everything his written in the Cosmere, so I don’t mind what he writes next; I just know I’ll want to read it.
Here after finishing the book in time for Rhythm of War, and needed to know your thoughts! Teared up so many times, laughed many more! This might be my favorite series ever. Love from Texas ❤️
Yay, I'm so glad this exists! Book chats are the most fun to watch. :) I still have yet to read any Brandon Sanderson (he's at the top of my 2018 list) but I'm definitely bookmarking this to come back to.
I love Adolin and Shallan as characters and even as a couple, but I also see that Shallan is...in a still very very shaky place mentally. It was getting worse over the course of the book, but did stabilize at the end. It's very...unusual certainly but also very worry how a relationship would affect her. As for the marriage it was rather abrupt, which while I don't have a problem with per se it also feels like it doesn't add much either. Overall though I loved this book. God, when Teft swore his third oath...that shit hit me deep.
This is super late but I finally finished reading Oathbringer! I really liked the book, and I find it surprising that so many people felt that the first half was really slow. My favorite parts of the book were the first three parts. I loved the time spent at Urithiru, and Kaladin’s scenes during this time were great: seeing his parents again, punching Roshone, and getting to know the parshmen (which set up the battle at Kholinar beautifully). Dalinar uniting the different nations of Roshar was also immensely enjoyable to me, it was really cool to see the way he used his visions to bring the other leaders over to his side. The portion of the book set in Kholinar was incredible (I think it was part 3). The city was so mysterious that every page felt intense for me, and seeing the way Shallan’s efforts to help the homeless backfired so spectacularly was almost as dark as Dalinar burning Evi alive (almost). I gasped when the kid she was helping got his skull cracked open, that was heartbreaking. The part in Shadesmar dragged for me. Syl revealing that she was a wanted criminal was hilarious, but I really just wanted it to end for some reason, and I feel weird saying that because I did want to know more about Shadesmar. I think my issue was that since Shadesmar was such of a mystery, whatever way they would use to come back to the physical realm would feel like a deus ex machina to me; in other words, I was feeling like Brandon would write a way to get them out of there that wasn’t already established in the lore as written in the books. And I was right, to an extent, although I didn’t mind Dalinar’s display of power that brought them back (that’s one of my favorite moments). I didn’t mention the final part as one of my favorites because although I vastly preferred it to part 4 and it was packed with action, I felt that I needed to know more about Odium’s motivations in order to understand the battle. I felt really confused because I didn’t know much about Odium other than he was leading the parshmen and the Fused against the humans. There’s a lot to the lore I still don’t understand, and though Oathbringer answered some questions, it feels like the lore got really complicated in this book without providing satisfactory answers. I don’t know if this is just me since I haven’t seen many others complain about Odium thus far.
I agree with almost everything you said. Dalinar's story was really the highlight of the story, I loved that. But the one part that really dragged for me was the Shadesmar stuff. I just thought it was unnecessary and I would have prefered for them to get back to the real world. What do you think, did you like it? (And yeah, the 'conclusion' of the love triangle was so unsatisfying.)
I agree. It was weird, a part of me really wanted to know more about Shadesmar, but another part of me just wanted them to get back to the real world already :P Also, I thought maybe their time there would allow for more moments like the chasm scenes in Words of Radiance, but it...didn't :/ And I almost wonder if the "conclusion" to the love triangle isn't really the "conclusion." Idk, I just feel like Sanderson wouldn't bother including that stuff if he didn't have a plan to do more with it. Idk though! I guess we'll see in like...three years :P
Elliot Brooks the love triangle was forced, but it was just all the shadesmar stuff that dragged. What I love about Sanderson and this series is that he takes an amazing fantasy world and puts real people and real people drama into it, but with Oathbringer in general, and the shadesmar parts in particular, is that the people often got lost in the world. These chapters were tedious and distracting and not interesting enough to advance my enjoyment of the story. The other thing about the book that I really didn't enjoy was the schitzophrenia of Shallan. I get where he is going with it and that the whole book is an exploration of character change and growth, but this felt too lost and distant and forced. Most of what happens in Stormlight feels like it happens because that's what happens on Roshar and to these characters. This felt like it happened because Brandon wanted it to.
So I just finished Oathbringer and then watched this. First thing I realised was that I didn't know Wit is Hoid. I was like who the heck is Hoid?! And when u mentioned Kal going to see his parents it seemed like so long ago! I totally forgot that happened in this book lol. My new fav character though is Sveths sword Nightblood. I loved their interaction.
Rich 08211 yeah, I think Hoid tells Kal that’s his name in the first one. I think! And doesn’t it feel like Kal seeing his parents was in a different book?!? I loved that part.
@@BridgeFour05 I don't see it. I just enjoyed them insulting each other. But that's about as far as a relationship between them can get lol. Kaladin needs someone both compassionate and self aware.. I'd like to see where the wind takes his heart next :3
I wouldn’t want Kaladin and Shallan together because I think Kaladin would end up using Shallan as a mental health crutch and if he lost her he’d descend into a very low state. I do also agree about Adolin and Shallan though, and I feel like their relationship is very shallow, the kind of relationship one might have for a few months in high school maybe. I really really loved Dalinar’s flashbacks and all the lore updates we got. The ending of the book felt...crowded to me. Instead of flipping viewpoints as much as he did I would have preferred Sanderson stuck with them a bit longer so we could immerse ourselves more in each scene. I’m extremely curious as to what is going on with Renarin and why Odium can’t see him. (Maybe it has something to do with Sja-Anat’s corrupted spren bonding to him and shielding him?)
That conversation you pointed out between Adolin and Azure wasn't some kind of foreshadowing about what Adolin would do. It was instead a clue that reveals Azure true identity😏
Haha, I'll get the cameos in reverse! :P I'm going to read Warbreaker soon. Just gotta get through Elantris and then the Bands of Mourning :D And yeah, I didn't necessarily think that conversation was foreshadowing for Adolin. I just though it contradicted what he ended up doing later, you know? I mean, if sticking to you responsibilities and obligations was so important to him, then why'd he just bail at the end so quickly when it came to being king? I mean, he gave reasons, but it seemed outside his character after how he acted with Azure. That's all I was getting at. Can't wait to see Azure though :D
I loved the book. Didn't mind the love triangle thing cuz I think Veil is going to take control and run after Kaladin at some point in the next book, and shes finally going to have to address the whole multiple personality thing. Adolin is more of a soulmate, Kaladin is more of an occasional fantasy, and Hoid is a father figure. Also, Jasnah and Elokhar weren't major enough characters to need a moment when she returned. We're definitely going to see friction between Szeth and everyone else in the next book. Who do you think is going to bond with the stormfathers siblings? I think maybe Navani with one. Also there's going to be issues with the fact that Jasnah the heretic is now on the throne. Favorite parts: Shallan had a lot of great moments. That scene in the bar when she stabbed her hand was AMAZING, the theater scene, the part with Hoid when they finish the story. Jasnah was great when she fought. I love Lift, what a great character. Dalinar's story was good, his ascendance was incredible. I liked seeing the stormfather go through the same sort of learning curve all the spren go through while they figure out humans, even though hes super old and powerful. Elokhar dying, Hoid going back for the spren... Questions: Whats up with Taln and Ash? It says that Dalinar saw them coming out by the battle at the end but then they don't actually do anything, and then they're running away afterwards or something? Why didn't the skybreakers back the parshendi ever since they found out the secret when the knights radiant gave up? It's like they all of the sudden figured out that it would be just. Either way, definitely the best serious I have ever read. Check out an author named Guy Gavriel Kay - very different than Sanderson, but amazing. Maybe start by reading a Song for Arbone.
Yeah, Jasnah being a heretic should definitely be interesting now that she's queen. I mean, Dalinar had a hard enough time dealing with the ardents! I liked the bar scene with Shallan as well, but I find her and Hoid together to just be amazing. He's always somewhat parental with her, which is interesting given how he treats everyone else :) The skybreakers are still kinda up in the air for me. I don't know that we've gotten enough of them yet for me to fully understand what their goals are, but I remember that one part before the chapter started where the person said they, "think the skybreakers and windrunners should get along because they have a lot in common," or something like that. And I have a couple of Guy Gavriel Kay's books but haven't had the chance to read them yet. I hear they're AMAZING :D
Read Warbreaker now if you haven’t already. Wits, or rather Hoids animated or rather awakened doll among other things and characters make more sense. Haha.
SA is my favourite series, but OB has some flaws. The romance, Helaran drama, Szeth switching sides, Elhokar dying, Shallan-Adolin-Kaladin, Jasnah-Elhokar. But one thing was better than any other I've read. Dalinar Kholin's backstory. Kal is still my boy, but Dalinar's character development is insanely good. Im surprised Sanderson didn't freak out writing this
(I know this is super late but I only NOW finished the book so I had to come back to comment. ) Imo with Shallan, she doesnt need her love interest to be her therapist or some one that relates to her pain in struggles. Adolin can still understand her and I like them together. I think its obvious that they make each other happy and build each other up. And I think the point is that Shallan is the real Shallan and that's who Adolin loves. Veil and Radiant are peices of shallan she needs to work thru and merge into herself, which doesnt need to be Adolins job to "fix" her. I think they're a great couple and I'm so glad the triangle wasnt as bad as I assumed before reading the book
I didn't know you'd made this video and it popped into my recommendations!! I think your questions and opinions are ON POINT, especially about the love triangle. I always thought that Shallan and Adolin, while they're cute for now, didn't sit quite right with me. But you articulated why. I think, in true Sanderson fashion, the love triangle is resolved for now and Shallan's "chosen" Adolin. I'm also happy it wasn't a huge drama! But I think the story will arc the other way, towards Kaladin (my fave) eventually. I don't even necessarily need them to be romantically involved. I'd just want them to be close and trusting. They've opened up to each other before, like you said! Maybe Adolin will potentially go dark side (which is what I thought might happen, after what he did at the end of WoR). Who knows. We've gotta wait 2 years at least to find out. D:
The biggest red flag for Shallan's relationship with Adolin is the fact that she hasn't talked to him about her past. Without that it's hard to imagine that Shallan would ever be able to be stable in that relationship. She would again just lock away all of these feelings and pretend that she is ok, and a part of the reason she is with Adolin is exactly this, that he helps her do this. I do understand Kaladin's perspective on this at the end of Oathbringer though. At this point he sees two people he likes who seem happy together, so he chooses to dismiss his feelings and focus on the other stuff (and there is a lot of other stuff) happening around him.
Thats what worries me, it feels like she went with Aidolin because it was "the right thing to do" and not her true feelings, it feels she chose him to avoid the truth, to keep running away and hiding from her true feelings, something that she herself has said she is too good at. Honestly I woudl be fine if this is where the triangle ended, but I'm skeptical. I don't think Sgallan can throw away her feelings for Kal that easily. Honestly she's going to hurt them both if she's not honest with herself.
with regard to the romance in this, lighteyes will be lighteyes. Kal is our boi but Shallan will obv picked the handsome blue-eyed blonde kid, who's actual royalty. No shade on Shallan or Adolin. Also Kaladin killing Helaran was purposeful, there should've been some drama. Maybe Shallan did like Kal, and the love left her when she discovered that fact or something
Elliot Brooks I'm just completely addicted to it. Thank you so much for recommending these books, I just can't get enough. I thought The Name of the wind was good but this is amazing.
I'm not all for Adolin/Shallan, but I'm ok with it and don't think I'd like Shallan/Kaladin any better. In response to your claim that he "doesn't know the real her", how do you think he managed to squeeze her hand at exactly the right time? Now to a meta-reason for why I think they're definitely staying together, and why I never had any real doubt. And this is a reason I think they stay together, not a point in favour of it being a good and healthy relationship. A young man of a higher social standing meets a young woman with a deceptive side to her, and they fall in love. She has magic, while he doesn't. There is another man floating around, of a lower social class but with magic, maybe he would be a more suitable match? But hey, all is good since soon after she decides to stay with her first love he gains magic too. Am I describing Adolin and Shallan? Or Vin and Elend? Seems to me like this is the kind of romantic relationship Sanderson likes to write about.
Shallan and Adolin getting married isn’t an ending. There is still a lot of storytelling that can be done from there. Hopefully the love triangle is put to bed though because Shallan/Kaladin is awful. With Kal idealising Shallans coping mechanism of creating other personalities and Shallans interest in Kaladin coming 90% from Veil is a recipe for disaster and would be awful for both characters growth. At least with Shallan/Adolin they care and are interested in each other as people, not just ideas. And I think you’re underestimating Adolins ability to see the “real” Shallan, from their first dates she actively chose not to create a persona and be herself, which is what he ultimately fell in love with. Adolin is an extremely perceptive person, he’s not super smart (probably the least intelligent major POV), but has excellent intuition for people. As we see him being right about Sadeas all along, and knowing Kal had a secret. Adolin helps Shallan, he doesn’t cure her, Veil and Radiant still exist. but is clearly a positive relationship. For Adolin as well, as he is very comfortable with Shallan and is the first person to tell about murdering Sadeas. Also Adolin giving up the kingdom isn’t him shirking responsibility. It was him realising he wasn’t the right person for the job! It was a good thing, and Shallan was supportive of that. Is their marriage a happy ride of into the sunset ending? No, there will still be a lot to work through but it is one that is easy to root for. Whereas Shallan/Kaladin it’s glaringly obvious they would be terrible for each other and aren’t actually romantically interested in each other.
Elliot Brooks sorry, clearly is a bad way to phrase it. Maybe more the positives of their relationship outweigh the negatives, but there is still enough negatives that there is interesting ways to develop it. The marriage itself also seems like that might just be an Alethi thing?
I’m definitely really interested to see where it goes. I hate that I’m so interested in that element of the story when there’s so much else at play, but Sanderson is just so good at character relationships 😄
I politely disagree, I think even by the end of this book Shallan wasn't ready for a relationship, with either of the two. She is still really broken up in the noggin, I doubt she can just put away her feelings for Kal that easily. It still feels like she's running away from her problems somewhat, even if it gets a little better towards the end of the book. I think emotionally she wants Kal, but logically she thinks Aidolin is the "right" choice and that she loves him. Don't get me wrong Aidolin is a good man, but Shallan's relationship with him still seems surface level, Aidolin is giving Shallan a lot more of himself to her, than what she is giving him in return. That said I could be completely wrong and she suddenly doesn't feel one iota of attraction to Kal and never flirts with him again in the books after this. However I can't help but have a worrisome feeling that the love triangle isn't over yet, whether she wants to admit it or not, Veil is Shallan just as much as she is Veil, those feelings are as much her own as they are Veil's. Kal still knows more about Shallan's past and "real self" than Aidolin does and thats another point of contention for me.
I'm with you on Evi, I kept wanting them to be more and it hurt when she was in the city. Also, Moash, I knew there was trouble there I the second book, but I really enjoyed his pov chapters and look forward to what he learns to do with the Honor Blade. I loved the end where Wit went back for Elhokar's Spren, I wanted him to bond him so bad because he would have been another Lightweaver. Such an amazing book, so much to take in, I'm going to do a second reading soon to catch what I missed along with gain better perspective on tg story. So. Long. Until. Next. Book: (
Jason Statham I don't think so, the Ghostbloods are trying to get a hold of an Unmade that may be willing to turn. Elhokar has Cryptics following him since the first book (though their presence lessened after Kaladin showed up), he was speaking the first oath when he was killed, and Wit picked that Spren (Cryptics, using Pattern as an example, cannot make themselves completely unseen in the Physical Realm) right next to Elhokar's blood stain.
Perhaps u r right. 1) So, why did kaladin make the cryptics disappear? Is it cuz he has an honour spren? If so, then Why doesn't it affect pattern? 2) why were parshendi breaking down the palace? Were they just looking for a cryptic spren?
I would agree that it was due to the Cryptic/Honor Spren rivalry but in Shadesmar they both realized that they weren't bad as individuals anyway. I'm not sure that the Singers are only looking for Spren because we found out that this world was originally theirs and they remember that. I do think they'll do what they can to stop bonds from forming where they can.
Hahaha, don't worry! :D I'll still be freaking out about it after. Besides, it's going to be so long until the next one comes out that I'll need someone to talk to about it later :P
Why don't people talk about different editions. You should show hardcover pages, illustrations inside it. Talk about which is better? Paperback or hardcover? That is the first thing I look for in the book review. I see a lot of TH-cam reviewers just holding a book for 10 minutes and talk endlessly. Doesn't your hand hurt? Put it on a table beside you where it's still visible. It's fine. Plus a lot of them doesn't even open a book or talk about fonts or pages or whether it's difficult to read.
but he DID kill the little boy, maybe not that one but a lot of them. Shallan was very interesting in the last book, but in this book for me she is the biggest problem, in the way that i didnt really empathize with her character or her arc, sure she did a lot of things, a lot, but the majority of it felt like the waste of words not because i dont like the character but because it really served no clear purpose.it reminded me of the boring parts of Wheel of Time that i didnt enjoy reading. i felt like some stuff at the end was deliberately put off to play out in later books, though the fault that Adolin says i love the real you but he doesnt really know her isnt really a fault because in reality no one can truly know someone else, they just think they know, all of us have hidden secrets inside just like Shallan.
Yeah, that's why I mentioned it would've been different (sorta) if it were in battle. Which..is KINDA what happened. That part was still super messed up though :'( And I suppose I might not agree 100% with the Shallan and Adolin thing, just in that I think they could know each other a little more than they do. Not that they need to know every thing that the other person thinks and does, but they just seem to like each other more for shallow reasons. Idk. It'll be interesting to see how they progress in the next one...in, like, three years :O
these two or three years is going to be hard though, didnt expect the book to be this good, now i want the sequel even more. to think when Brandon finishes the series our children would probably be able to read it too!!
Eeeeeeeeh, true kinda ? You can know people a lot more than you give them credit for, sure you will never know someone entirely, you would have to become that person to truly know how they feel, but you can still know a heck of a lot about someone emotionally, as well as of their past and present. I feel Adolin doesn't know the "real" her and niether does Kal entirely, but he certainly closer to knowing the "real" Shallan than Adolin does, Shallan's most intimate moments have been with Kalladin and Wit, not Aidolin. I feel like she is using Aidolin as yet another coping mechanism, rather than truly loving him.
The series is getting worse. Too many irrelevant plots and sub plots. Pace is horrible. Brandon is clearly stretching it too thin or thick which applies to both. It was a struggle to read this book. Almost as if I was reading an unending perpetual introduction. Also as a fan of Sanderson. This reminds me of the Mistborn Series and some of his other works. It's almost as if he's using them as a crutch with fillers just so that he can complete his ambition for the series. The author used to draw me in. Escapism at his finest. But after reading this book. I can see his limitations for epic storytelling. Brandon's idea is either not big enough or simply lacks originality. Couldn't get enough of George Martin's Game of Thrones. Every book leaving me in suspense wanting more. With Brandon's Stormlight series I regret reading each book after The Way of Kings. Not looking forward to his next book. No longer a fan.
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Just finished it this morning.
“Maybe you don’t have to save anyone, Kaladin. Maybe it’s time for someone to save you.”
I felt this moment so much. It was about time someone reminded Kal of it.
Syl brings out the best in Kal. I just melt whenever it’s the two of them.
Yes! I thought Shallan would lose her shit when she found out about Kal and her brother.
Also, I used to be a die hard Kal+Shallan fan but hell no. Not anymore! Shallan was A MESS in this book. An absolute mess! Also, I am absolutely shocked that Adolin lasted this long.
With the world being at war and and chaos, there weren’t a lot of personal moments/interactions between the characters. I’m hopping that that’ll change in the next instalment.
There are sooooooo many loose ends - I’m losing my mind.
Also, YOU’RE AWESOME! TY!💕
I melt with Syl and Kal too!!! Have you looked up any fanart of them? There are some really beautiful depictions of them that I love :D
And yeah, Shallan was just kinda like, "well I guess Kal killed him." I was really surprised that wasn't a bigger deal. And I'm surprised Kal never thought about it? I mean...I'd probably feel pretty bad around a person if I knew I'd killed their brother. But hey, Kal's got a lot on his mind, so I guess it's ok :P
Yeah, I used to like the idea of Shallan and Kal together, but not anymore. She WAS a total mess in this book. But that scene at the end when Kal was standing on top of some roof or something, and Shallan and Adolin were down below, almost seemed symbolic to me of where they are in their lives. Shallan and Adolin are still getting over their insecurities and personal issues, and Kal has kinda overcome those (for the most part!).
Hahaha, I'm pretty sure Adolin is going to die at some point. Idk, though, I could be wrong!
And thank you :D Yay for mutual book love :D :D :D
Elliot Brooks wow that rooftop bit where you said was kinda symbolic is actually on point. Kal’s development was really great here. And YES! Those two are below my goodreads description bit. hahah
And as for Adolin, I’ve been saying his days are numbered since the beginning of way of kings and I still couldn’t believe that he lasted this long until I finally found Sanderson’s reason as to why he kept him cause he did say that he was planing to kill him off by end of WoK but he said that he wanted the one person without any magical abilities, the ‘normal’ guy to stay on.
And I am SOOO pumped for his new series Skyward to come out in 2018! I can’t wait!
OMG THANK YOU finally someone who sees that Shallan and Adolin's union at the end isn't ideal at all. I don't think Shallan should have gotten together with *anyone* at the end of this book, she's clearly not in a state that's healthy enough for a relationship, let alone a friggin' marriage!
Right?!? I do wonder if Sanderson is going to address that. Maybe they’re going to have problems! I’ve seen some fan theories that wonder if Sanderson will write some kind of cheating plot line or divorce plot line. Idk if it will go that far, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he does something with their relationship. It just felt so rushed to me (not the writing, just their decision to get married) that I can’t help but think maybe something will arise out of that 🤷🏻♀️
Yeah I agree, I've wondered about that too? I wondered if there was going to be a parallel to the Gavilar-Navani-Dalinar love triangle where Adolin dies and then Shallan and Kaladin get together ...? Though tbh right now I don't ship Shalladin just because I think Shallan is turning kinda horrible lol. I dunno what happened because I loved her in WoK and WoR, but in Oathbringer she just plummeted for me, and it made all the the things that bugged me about her in WoR really stand out, so now I just dislike her.
I also have a theory that Kaladin is going to turn really important because now that Jezrien has died, there's no patron for the Windrunners any more, so maybe Kaladin will fulfil that role at some point ...? Because let's be real, that boy is destined for great things, and he seems to fulfil the Windrunner qualities much better than Jezrien was shown to do lol (leadership abilities and protectiveness etc.) And that would be super interesting imo because the Windrunner patron is the Herald of Kings, which would be a legendary rise in status for a darkeyes!
Sabrina S. Soto all of u Kaladin die hard fans shut up just bcoz u are Kaladin fans doesn't make Adolin-Shallan relationship bad
@@ebnovels but shallan accepting who she is as a person is the underlying theme. And that person loves adolin
@@ebnovels Therapist here, funny thing is Shallan basically has dissociative identity disorder (that's the whole thing with her) and the fact that she ends up with an enabler perfectly fits with her patterns, people that suffer from trauma like her generally have a very hard time picking partners that are good for them (to say the least) I think their union isn't SUPPOSED to be ideal, it's supposed to be the one that LOOKS ideal on the outside, in the same way that Shallan avoids her deep trauma with her own attitude, also the quick marriage is a way to create a sense of security for someone who obviously has NO sense of security, so again, it makes sense to me. Reading Mistborn and Stormlight I have been massively impressed at how well Sanderson really gets mental illness, so for me this is a total winn.
"Sex with Syl" and "Positions with Pattern" oh my God lololololol I would watch that for sure
I absolutely agree to almost every point you made. The exact same thoughts ran through my head when I read that Jasnah is back. I mean, at least a scene involving Navani and Jasnah reuniting would have been fine. Jasnah tells Shallan that she would talk to Elhokar about not letting Shallan go with them to Kholinar but that's about it. We are never shown their interaction. And I was really looking forward to that because I really believe Jasnah is a super important character in the series.
Another thing was when we were told Kaladin was going to fly to Thaylen with Shallan to activate the oathgate, I was really looking forward to their interaction. I personally find Kaladin and Shallan' s interaction much more engaging and interesting than Shallan and Adolin. They could addressed the Helaran issue in a lot more detail because in WoR, Kaladin is circumspect when he finds out that the guy he killed back was Shallan's brother. They could have also shown Shallan's reactions to lashings and flying for the first time. I think that was a missed opportunity.
I also agree to the whole Szeth issue you addressed. The dude almost killed Dalinar not too long ago and is primarily the reason the plot got Kickstarted in WoK. We at least deserved a scene with Dalinar and Szeth talking about things. Or even Szeth and Kaladin.
Regarding the love triangle, I have always thought Adolin and Shallan's relation to be dull and bland. Yes, they are extremely attracted to each other but Adolin really doesn't know anything about Shallan. Her fears, her trauma, her insecurities and her terrible past and the accompanying guilt. He knows nothing. While I do think Kaladin Kaladin and Shallan would not work out in the long run, but those issues could have been explored or even worked on if they were a couple instead.
Dalinar Ascending was the money shot for me in the book. Dalinar is a very complex and well written character and I want to commend Sanderson on writing him that way.
Completely agree, the interactions with Adolin are boring in comparison to Shallan's and Kals, they both share a simlair pain yet are very different in their own ways. It seems Shallan is still not being honest with herself, she chose Adolin because it was the "right" thing to do and what she assumes others want from her , but in reality its not what she really wants. If this is the end of the love triangle so be it, I can accept that. I just hope she doesn't go bo back on her word to Adolin and it seems thats very likely to happen.
I agree with everything you said!
My heart's still broken for Evi. That moment when Adolin was born! And Renarin.. I'm so curious what will happen with him.
And when Hoid retold The Girl Who Looked Up with Shallan... Storming man. I was mentally sobbing.
I _storming_ love this book! It was so plot and Dalinar focused that the characters we focued on in the previous books kind of slipped out of control a tiny bit, but I loved it.
The problem about the love triangle-ish thing is the stuff it represents in each character's growth arch... It isn't about the Shallan/Adolin pairing itself, it's really the fact neither Adolin nor Shallan is ready for such a commitment. I wouldn't have minded the use of Shallan's confusion in her relationships to show her arch, but only if it had been handled better. She wasn't given the time to learn from her experience with either of them. Kaladin could've taught her *a lot* , even as a friend. That conversation about blanking her mind against bad memories ended too abruptly and to me ending it like that, despite the understanding they have, was so forced.
Adolin needs some time to grow as well, he's still the "charming and talented because he's charming and talented" prince.. Don't get me wrong, I love him and I don't believe he's a flat character, but he certainly needs some time to toughen up and get out of his comfort zone. Besides, what about all his previous quick-to-fail attempts at "maintaining" a relationship? I understand how Shallan herself made a huge difference, but what about his part in the relationship? Doesn't it take a ton more than just genuineness to keep someone?
I kinda disagree though about that him escaping the responsibility was a wrong decision. I can't imagine him king, as I said, he needs time before he is - if ever- ready. Jasnah is a much better fit for the throne.
I was wondering if anyone else shared my views on the love triangle, glad to see i'm not the only one feeling this way. In the end I still feel shallan isn't fully fleshed out and made the wrong decision in choosing Aidolin or any relationship partner right now for that matter. To me it seems she chose Aidolin because it was "the right thing to do," the person she should choose, a person she thinks people want her to choose and is using him as another coping mechanism, rather than admitting what she really wants. The marriage did seem a bit rushed through, honestly I wouldn't mind if this was the end to the love tirangle, in fact I despise love triangles, for how it ruins friendships.
However what worries me is that she isn't really over Kallidan and is simply pushing her real feelings aside, trying to hide from them, just like she does with everything else. Now I am not saying Kal is neccesarily the right person for her or that she is the right person for him in the long run, but rushing to marry Aidolin doesn't seem like a smart decsion either given how mentally broken she still is. She has opened up a lot more to Kal than she hever has with Aidolin, so while they're not ideal logically, they seem much more emotionally attuned to each other. Honestly if this it for the flirting between her and Kal I'm fine with it, I rather be done with this, if she has already made her decision.
I just don't want Shallan's flip floppiness to be her and those around her's undoing, if she chose Aidolin she better stick with him, instead of tormenting Kal further with her flirting and leading both guys on, hurting both of them. Nevertheless I don't think she should have been with anyone by the end of this book, she's still far too underdeveloped.
I loved LOVED Dalinars flashbacks. When he was ambushed by all the falling rocks and kills them all and than burns down the rift was great. I love grim dark stuff and that part was suuuuper dark.
Thanks for doing a full review of Oathbringer. I was hanging out to hear an in-depth discussion about the book after finishing but everything online is spoiler free at the moment.
Very well presented too!
You're welcome :D I loved the book so much. I might like the first one the most because of Kaladin having the flashback story, but I've liked them all. This one did feel a little bit like it was setting up for the fourth one though. I can't wait for that one to come out in, like, three years :D
3 years! 😭
At least in that time he’ll be writing the last of the mistborn era two novels. At the moment I’m busy devouring everything his written in the Cosmere, so I don’t mind what he writes next; I just know I’ll want to read it.
Here after finishing the book in time for Rhythm of War, and needed to know your thoughts! Teared up so many times, laughed many more! This might be my favorite series ever. Love from Texas ❤️
Yay, I'm so glad this exists! Book chats are the most fun to watch. :) I still have yet to read any Brandon Sanderson (he's at the top of my 2018 list) but I'm definitely bookmarking this to come back to.
When you do start reading his works, you have to tell me! I'm always down to chat about it :D
I would love that! :) I definitely will.
I love Adolin and Shallan as characters and even as a couple, but I also see that Shallan is...in a still very very shaky place mentally. It was getting worse over the course of the book, but did stabilize at the end. It's very...unusual certainly but also very worry how a relationship would affect her. As for the marriage it was rather abrupt, which while I don't have a problem with per se it also feels like it doesn't add much either. Overall though I loved this book. God, when Teft swore his third oath...that shit hit me deep.
Where did you get that hoodie? Do they have for men?
This is super late but I finally finished reading Oathbringer! I really liked the book, and I find it surprising that so many people felt that the first half was really slow.
My favorite parts of the book were the first three parts. I loved the time spent at Urithiru, and Kaladin’s scenes during this time were great: seeing his parents again, punching Roshone, and getting to know the parshmen (which set up the battle at Kholinar beautifully). Dalinar uniting the different nations of Roshar was also immensely enjoyable to me, it was really cool to see the way he used his visions to bring the other leaders over to his side. The portion of the book set in Kholinar was incredible (I think it was part 3). The city was so mysterious that every page felt intense for me, and seeing the way Shallan’s efforts to help the homeless backfired so spectacularly was almost as dark as Dalinar burning Evi alive (almost). I gasped when the kid she was helping got his skull cracked open, that was heartbreaking.
The part in Shadesmar dragged for me. Syl revealing that she was a wanted criminal was hilarious, but I really just wanted it to end for some reason, and I feel weird saying that because I did want to know more about Shadesmar. I think my issue was that since Shadesmar was such of a mystery, whatever way they would use to come back to the physical realm would feel like a deus ex machina to me; in other words, I was feeling like Brandon would write a way to get them out of there that wasn’t already established in the lore as written in the books. And I was right, to an extent, although I didn’t mind Dalinar’s display of power that brought them back (that’s one of my favorite moments).
I didn’t mention the final part as one of my favorites because although I vastly preferred it to part 4 and it was packed with action, I felt that I needed to know more about Odium’s motivations in order to understand the battle. I felt really confused because I didn’t know much about Odium other than he was leading the parshmen and the Fused against the humans. There’s a lot to the lore I still don’t understand, and though Oathbringer answered some questions, it feels like the lore got really complicated in this book without providing satisfactory answers. I don’t know if this is just me since I haven’t seen many others complain about Odium thus far.
That redhead is good for neither adolin nor stormblessed. She needs to get her shit together. That marriage felt so rushed and unnecessary.
Also, fan fiction wise, how much do you wanna bet someone’s done something with the fact that Pattern vibrates?
This is underrated
I agree with almost everything you said. Dalinar's story was really the highlight of the story, I loved that. But the one part that really dragged for me was the Shadesmar stuff. I just thought it was unnecessary and I would have prefered for them to get back to the real world. What do you think, did you like it?
(And yeah, the 'conclusion' of the love triangle was so unsatisfying.)
I agree. It was weird, a part of me really wanted to know more about Shadesmar, but another part of me just wanted them to get back to the real world already :P Also, I thought maybe their time there would allow for more moments like the chasm scenes in Words of Radiance, but it...didn't :/ And I almost wonder if the "conclusion" to the love triangle isn't really the "conclusion." Idk, I just feel like Sanderson wouldn't bother including that stuff if he didn't have a plan to do more with it. Idk though! I guess we'll see in like...three years :P
Worst part of the book
The love triangle stuff?
Elliot Brooks the love triangle was forced, but it was just all the shadesmar stuff that dragged. What I love about Sanderson and this series is that he takes an amazing fantasy world and puts real people and real people drama into it, but with Oathbringer in general, and the shadesmar parts in particular, is that the people often got lost in the world. These chapters were tedious and distracting and not interesting enough to advance my enjoyment of the story. The other thing about the book that I really didn't enjoy was the schitzophrenia of Shallan. I get where he is going with it and that the whole book is an exploration of character change and growth, but this felt too lost and distant and forced. Most of what happens in Stormlight feels like it happens because that's what happens on Roshar and to these characters. This felt like it happened because Brandon wanted it to.
Awesome book, everything with Dalinar was 11/10
But wow that stuff in Shadesmar dragged it felt like a filler arc in an anime
Elhokar's death and Dalinar becoming Unity were the highpoints of the novel for me. The ending did feel a bit rushed but great read overall.
So I just finished Oathbringer and then watched this. First thing I realised was that I didn't know Wit is Hoid. I was like who the heck is Hoid?! And when u mentioned Kal going to see his parents it seemed like so long ago! I totally forgot that happened in this book lol. My new fav character though is Sveths sword Nightblood. I loved their interaction.
Rich 08211 yeah, I think Hoid tells Kal that’s his name in the first one. I think! And doesn’t it feel like Kal seeing his parents was in a different book?!? I loved that part.
I have a feeling that Kal & Jasnah are going to hook-up
I've heard a few fan theories about that. They are both pretty awesome characters :) Would you want that to happen, or do you just think it will? :)
Omg, am I the only one who doesn’t see it? Because I’ve also heard a lot of people theorising their ship.
He is too old and depressed for that boring old hag, isn't He?
@@BridgeFour05 I don't see it. I just enjoyed them insulting each other. But that's about as far as a relationship between them can get lol.
Kaladin needs someone both compassionate and self aware.. I'd like to see where the wind takes his heart next :3
I think Jasnah should want to get married to Kaladin but then have him turn her down
The love triangle seems like its not over... I find offputting how they just accepted Zseth into the fam just like that...
I'm just here to leave a like, I'll come back later... when I've read that book. And thank you for the spoiler alert.
You're very welcome :) And I'll be excited to see what you think of the book :D
"Sex with Syl and Positions with Pattern" LOL
I wouldn’t want Kaladin and Shallan together because I think Kaladin would end up using Shallan as a mental health crutch and if he lost her he’d descend into a very low state. I do also agree about Adolin and Shallan though, and I feel like their relationship is very shallow, the kind of relationship one might have for a few months in high school maybe. I really really loved Dalinar’s flashbacks and all the lore updates we got. The ending of the book felt...crowded to me. Instead of flipping viewpoints as much as he did I would have preferred Sanderson stuck with them a bit longer so we could immerse ourselves more in each scene. I’m extremely curious as to what is going on with Renarin and why Odium can’t see him. (Maybe it has something to do with Sja-Anat’s corrupted spren bonding to him and shielding him?)
YOU MISS ALL THOSE WARBREAKER CAMEOS AHSJDJAJSJSKS THAT WAS WHAT MADE THE BOOK FOR ME.
That conversation you pointed out between Adolin and Azure wasn't some kind of foreshadowing about what Adolin would do. It was instead a clue that reveals Azure true identity😏
Haha, I'll get the cameos in reverse! :P I'm going to read Warbreaker soon. Just gotta get through Elantris and then the Bands of Mourning :D And yeah, I didn't necessarily think that conversation was foreshadowing for Adolin. I just though it contradicted what he ended up doing later, you know? I mean, if sticking to you responsibilities and obligations was so important to him, then why'd he just bail at the end so quickly when it came to being king? I mean, he gave reasons, but it seemed outside his character after how he acted with Azure. That's all I was getting at. Can't wait to see Azure though :D
I loved the book. Didn't mind the love triangle thing cuz I think Veil is going to take control and run after Kaladin at some point in the next book, and shes finally going to have to address the whole multiple personality thing. Adolin is more of a soulmate, Kaladin is more of an occasional fantasy, and Hoid is a father figure. Also, Jasnah and Elokhar weren't major enough characters to need a moment when she returned. We're definitely going to see friction between Szeth and everyone else in the next book.
Who do you think is going to bond with the stormfathers siblings? I think maybe Navani with one. Also there's going to be issues with the fact that Jasnah the heretic is now on the throne.
Favorite parts: Shallan had a lot of great moments. That scene in the bar when she stabbed her hand was AMAZING, the theater scene, the part with Hoid when they finish the story. Jasnah was great when she fought. I love Lift, what a great character. Dalinar's story was good, his ascendance was incredible. I liked seeing the stormfather go through the same sort of learning curve all the spren go through while they figure out humans, even though hes super old and powerful. Elokhar dying, Hoid going back for the spren...
Questions: Whats up with Taln and Ash? It says that Dalinar saw them coming out by the battle at the end but then they don't actually do anything, and then they're running away afterwards or something? Why didn't the skybreakers back the parshendi ever since they found out the secret when the knights radiant gave up? It's like they all of the sudden figured out that it would be just.
Either way, definitely the best serious I have ever read. Check out an author named Guy Gavriel Kay - very different than Sanderson, but amazing. Maybe start by reading a Song for Arbone.
Yeah, Jasnah being a heretic should definitely be interesting now that she's queen. I mean, Dalinar had a hard enough time dealing with the ardents!
I liked the bar scene with Shallan as well, but I find her and Hoid together to just be amazing. He's always somewhat parental with her, which is interesting given how he treats everyone else :)
The skybreakers are still kinda up in the air for me. I don't know that we've gotten enough of them yet for me to fully understand what their goals are, but I remember that one part before the chapter started where the person said they, "think the skybreakers and windrunners should get along because they have a lot in common," or something like that.
And I have a couple of Guy Gavriel Kay's books but haven't had the chance to read them yet. I hear they're AMAZING :D
Wow, not even 10 seconds for Unity? That's the most interesting plot line here...
I loved this video. I feel like I need to create a Reader's Group with you in it!
i have a strong feeling the 4th ideal will force kaladin and the windrunners to abandon the humans.
Read Warbreaker now if you haven’t already. Wits, or rather Hoids animated or rather awakened doll among other things and characters make more sense. Haha.
SA is my favourite series, but OB has some flaws. The romance, Helaran drama, Szeth switching sides, Elhokar dying, Shallan-Adolin-Kaladin, Jasnah-Elhokar.
But one thing was better than any other I've read. Dalinar Kholin's backstory. Kal is still my boy, but Dalinar's character development is insanely good. Im surprised Sanderson didn't freak out writing this
(I know this is super late but I only NOW finished the book so I had to come back to comment. )
Imo with Shallan, she doesnt need her love interest to be her therapist or some one that relates to her pain in struggles.
Adolin can still understand her and I like them together. I think its obvious that they make each other happy and build each other up. And I think the point is that Shallan is the real Shallan and that's who Adolin loves. Veil and Radiant are peices of shallan she needs to work thru and merge into herself, which doesnt need to be Adolins job to "fix" her.
I think they're a great couple and I'm so glad the triangle wasnt as bad as I assumed before reading the book
I didn't know you'd made this video and it popped into my recommendations!!
I think your questions and opinions are ON POINT, especially about the love triangle. I always thought that Shallan and Adolin, while they're cute for now, didn't sit quite right with me. But you articulated why. I think, in true Sanderson fashion, the love triangle is resolved for now and Shallan's "chosen" Adolin. I'm also happy it wasn't a huge drama! But I think the story will arc the other way, towards Kaladin (my fave) eventually. I don't even necessarily need them to be romantically involved. I'd just want them to be close and trusting. They've opened up to each other before, like you said! Maybe Adolin will potentially go dark side (which is what I thought might happen, after what he did at the end of WoR). Who knows. We've gotta wait 2 years at least to find out. D:
Your thoughts on Adolin and Shallan
The biggest red flag for Shallan's relationship with Adolin is the fact that she hasn't talked to him about her past. Without that it's hard to imagine that Shallan would ever be able to be stable in that relationship. She would again just lock away all of these feelings and pretend that she is ok, and a part of the reason she is with Adolin is exactly this, that he helps her do this. I do understand Kaladin's perspective on this at the end of Oathbringer though. At this point he sees two people he likes who seem happy together, so he chooses to dismiss his feelings and focus on the other stuff (and there is a lot of other stuff) happening around him.
Thats what worries me, it feels like she went with Aidolin because it was "the right thing to do" and not her true feelings, it feels she chose him to avoid the truth, to keep running away and hiding from her true feelings, something that she herself has said she is too good at. Honestly I woudl be fine if this is where the triangle ended, but I'm skeptical. I don't think Sgallan can throw away her feelings for Kal that easily. Honestly she's going to hurt them both if she's not honest with herself.
I’m still reading way of Kings so no spoilers but is this book good at all I hear a lot of reviews all the characters fall flat is that true
I didn't think that at all
Elliot Brooks glad to hear I’m only on part 2 with Kaladin Adolin and Dalinar perspective it’s slow but interesting
with regard to the romance in this, lighteyes will be lighteyes. Kal is our boi but Shallan will obv picked the handsome blue-eyed blonde kid, who's actual royalty. No shade on Shallan or Adolin. Also Kaladin killing Helaran was purposeful, there should've been some drama. Maybe Shallan did like Kal, and the love left her when she discovered that fact or something
Ohh cool new video!!
"All spoilers"
Never closed a video so fast. No offence lol, still on way of kings.
Haha, none taken! :D I hope you love the series!!!
Elliot Brooks I'm just completely addicted to it. Thank you so much for recommending these books, I just can't get enough. I thought The Name of the wind was good but this is amazing.
Rich 08211 oh yay :D that’s so good to hear! I thought Name of the Wind was good, but I don’t love it the way I love these books 😄
I'm not all for Adolin/Shallan, but I'm ok with it and don't think I'd like Shallan/Kaladin any better. In response to your claim that he "doesn't know the real her", how do you think he managed to squeeze her hand at exactly the right time?
Now to a meta-reason for why I think they're definitely staying together, and why I never had any real doubt. And this is a reason I think they stay together, not a point in favour of it being a good and healthy relationship.
A young man of a higher social standing meets a young woman with a deceptive side to her, and they fall in love. She has magic, while he doesn't. There is another man floating around, of a lower social class but with magic, maybe he would be a more suitable match? But hey, all is good since soon after she decides to stay with her first love he gains magic too.
Am I describing Adolin and Shallan? Or Vin and Elend? Seems to me like this is the kind of romantic relationship Sanderson likes to write about.
How do you guys know how to pronounce these names?!? 😫
Aaand I still haven't finished Oathbringer. Reserving this comment space for when I can actually watch this video lol
Hahaha, that's ok! I'm going to want to talk about it for...basically forever :D It's so good! Can't wait to hear your thoughts :)
Should i feel bad that i really like adolin and shallan together
great video!!
Thanks :D
Evi's suicide really pissed me off
Sinister Mephisto that part definitely made me sad. I didn’t interpret what she did as her committing suicide-I took it as her trying to mend things.
Shallan and Adolin getting married isn’t an ending. There is still a lot of storytelling that can be done from there. Hopefully the love triangle is put to bed though because Shallan/Kaladin is awful. With Kal idealising Shallans coping mechanism of creating other personalities and Shallans interest in Kaladin coming 90% from Veil is a recipe for disaster and would be awful for both characters growth. At least with Shallan/Adolin they care and are interested in each other as people, not just ideas. And I think you’re underestimating Adolins ability to see the “real” Shallan, from their first dates she actively chose not to create a persona and be herself, which is what he ultimately fell in love with. Adolin is an extremely perceptive person, he’s not super smart (probably the least intelligent major POV), but has excellent intuition for people. As we see him being right about Sadeas all along, and knowing Kal had a secret. Adolin helps Shallan, he doesn’t cure her, Veil and Radiant still exist. but is clearly a positive relationship. For Adolin as well, as he is very comfortable with Shallan and is the first person to tell about murdering Sadeas. Also Adolin giving up the kingdom isn’t him shirking responsibility. It was him realising he wasn’t the right person for the job! It was a good thing, and Shallan was supportive of that. Is their marriage a happy ride of into the sunset ending? No, there will still be a lot to work through but it is one that is easy to root for. Whereas Shallan/Kaladin it’s glaringly obvious they would be terrible for each other and aren’t actually romantically interested in each other.
I don’t think it’s clearly positive, but I respect your perspective :)
Elliot Brooks sorry, clearly is a bad way to phrase it. Maybe more the positives of their relationship outweigh the negatives, but there is still enough negatives that there is interesting ways to develop it. The marriage itself also seems like that might just be an Alethi thing?
I’m definitely really interested to see where it goes. I hate that I’m so interested in that element of the story when there’s so much else at play, but Sanderson is just so good at character relationships 😄
I politely disagree, I think even by the end of this book Shallan wasn't ready for a relationship, with either of the two. She is still really broken up in the noggin, I doubt she can just put away her feelings for Kal that easily. It still feels like she's running away from her problems somewhat, even if it gets a little better towards the end of the book. I think emotionally she wants Kal, but logically she thinks Aidolin is the "right" choice and that she loves him. Don't get me wrong Aidolin is a good man, but Shallan's relationship with him still seems surface level, Aidolin is giving Shallan a lot more of himself to her, than what she is giving him in return.
That said I could be completely wrong and she suddenly doesn't feel one iota of attraction to Kal and never flirts with him again in the books after this. However I can't help but have a worrisome feeling that the love triangle isn't over yet, whether she wants to admit it or not, Veil is Shallan just as much as she is Veil, those feelings are as much her own as they are Veil's. Kal still knows more about Shallan's past and "real self" than Aidolin does and thats another point of contention for me.
I'm with you on Evi, I kept wanting them to be more and it hurt when she was in the city. Also, Moash, I knew there was trouble there I the second book, but I really enjoyed his pov chapters and look forward to what he learns to do with the Honor Blade. I loved the end where Wit went back for Elhokar's Spren, I wanted him to bond him so bad because he would have been another Lightweaver. Such an amazing book, so much to take in, I'm going to do a second reading soon to catch what I missed along with gain better perspective on tg story. So. Long. Until. Next. Book: (
Was it really elhokar's spren? I thought it was the good unmade.
Jason Statham I don't think so, the Ghostbloods are trying to get a hold of an Unmade that may be willing to turn. Elhokar has Cryptics following him since the first book (though their presence lessened after Kaladin showed up), he was speaking the first oath when he was killed, and Wit picked that Spren (Cryptics, using Pattern as an example, cannot make themselves completely unseen in the Physical Realm) right next to Elhokar's blood stain.
Perhaps u r right.
1) So, why did kaladin make the cryptics disappear? Is it cuz he has an honour spren? If so, then Why doesn't it affect pattern?
2) why were parshendi breaking down the palace? Were they just looking for a cryptic spren?
I would agree that it was due to the Cryptic/Honor Spren rivalry but in Shadesmar they both realized that they weren't bad as individuals anyway. I'm not sure that the Singers are only looking for Spren because we found out that this world was originally theirs and they remember that. I do think they'll do what they can to stop bonds from forming where they can.
Dr Syl and Dr Pattern presents Dr Syl's Sex-Ed 😂
It would be so funny!!! Heck, I'd take that class :D
+Elliot Brooks this must be the foundations upon which the religion known as 'the passions' was founded 🤔.
Nooo!!!! I can't watch yet! 😭 I'm so sad I love your videos! I'll come back as soon as I finish oathbringer!! Instagram:robbien19
Hahaha, don't worry! :D I'll still be freaking out about it after. Besides, it's going to be so long until the next one comes out that I'll need someone to talk to about it later :P
Elliot Brooks true!! I'm trying not to think about how long it will be before the next one 😭
Robbie Moore and I guess he’s going to take a break after book five 😩 gah!!!
Elliot Brooks WHAT?! NOOOOOO
Robbie Moore I know!!! 😩 I mean, he’s a writing machine, but still...I hope it’s not too long of a break!
Why don't people talk about different editions. You should show hardcover pages, illustrations inside it. Talk about which is better? Paperback or hardcover?
That is the first thing I look for in the book review.
I see a lot of TH-cam reviewers just holding a book for 10 minutes and talk endlessly. Doesn't your hand hurt? Put it on a table beside you where it's still visible. It's fine. Plus a lot of them doesn't even open a book or talk about fonts or pages or whether it's difficult to read.
but he DID kill the little boy, maybe not that one but a lot of them.
Shallan was very interesting in the last book, but in this book for me she is the biggest problem, in the way that i didnt really empathize with her character or her arc, sure she did a lot of things, a lot, but the majority of it felt like the waste of words not because i dont like the character but because it really served no clear purpose.it reminded me of the boring parts of Wheel of Time that i didnt enjoy reading.
i felt like some stuff at the end was deliberately put off to play out in later books, though the fault that Adolin says i love the real you but he doesnt really know her isnt really a fault because in reality no one can truly know someone else, they just think they know, all of us have hidden secrets inside just like Shallan.
Yeah, that's why I mentioned it would've been different (sorta) if it were in battle. Which..is KINDA what happened. That part was still super messed up though :'(
And I suppose I might not agree 100% with the Shallan and Adolin thing, just in that I think they could know each other a little more than they do. Not that they need to know every thing that the other person thinks and does, but they just seem to like each other more for shallow reasons. Idk. It'll be interesting to see how they progress in the next one...in, like, three years :O
these two or three years is going to be hard though, didnt expect the book to be this good, now i want the sequel even more.
to think when Brandon finishes the series our children would probably be able to read it too!!
Eeeeeeeeh, true kinda ? You can know people a lot more than you give them credit for, sure you will never know someone entirely, you would have to become that person to truly know how they feel, but you can still know a heck of a lot about someone emotionally, as well as of their past and present. I feel Adolin doesn't know the "real" her and niether does Kal entirely, but he certainly closer to knowing the "real" Shallan than Adolin does, Shallan's most intimate moments have been with Kalladin and Wit, not Aidolin. I feel like she is using Aidolin as yet another coping mechanism, rather than truly loving him.
The series is getting worse. Too many irrelevant plots and sub plots. Pace is horrible. Brandon is clearly stretching it too thin or thick which applies to both. It was a struggle to read this book. Almost as if I was reading an unending perpetual introduction. Also as a fan of Sanderson. This reminds me of the Mistborn Series and some of his other works. It's almost as if he's using them as a crutch with fillers just so that he can complete his ambition for the series. The author used to draw me in. Escapism at his finest. But after reading this book. I can see his limitations for epic storytelling. Brandon's idea is either not big enough or simply lacks originality. Couldn't get enough of George Martin's Game of Thrones. Every book leaving me in suspense wanting more. With Brandon's Stormlight series I regret reading each book after The Way of Kings. Not looking forward to his next book. No longer a fan.