Sweden's First Modern Aircraft | SAAB 17 [Aircraft Overview #25]
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ย. 2024
- The SAAB 17 was the first all-metal aircraft developed in Sweden. It was also to be the first aircraft built by SAAB, who had only been formed on the 2nd of April 1937. After a small issue around the wings (they liked to break in fast dives), the aircraft entered service in 1941-42.
Originally concieved as a reconnaissance aircraft, it was also expanded to fill the role of a light bomber. The aircraft came as a landplane or a seaplane, and could even have its landing gear replaced with skis for snowy weather (Because Sweden). Though it didn't really see much action, it still had a distinguished career, both with Sweden and later the Ethiopian Air Force.
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Producing these videos is a hobby of mine. I have a passion for history, and personally own a large collection of books, journals and other texts, and endeavor to do as much research as possible. However if there are any mistakes, please don't hesitate to reach out and correct anything :)
Sources:
www.amazon.com...
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F.A.Q Section
Q: Do you take aircraft requests?
A: I have a list of aircraft I plan to cover, but feel free to add to it with suggestions:)
Q: Why do you use imperial measurements for some videos, and metric for others?
A: I do this based on country of manufacture. Imperial measurements for Britain and the U.S, metric for the rest of the world, but I include text in my videos that convert it for both.
Q: Will you include video footage in your videos, or just photos?
A: Video footage is very expensive to licence, if I can find footage in the public domain I will try to use it, but a lot of it is hoarded by licencing studies (British Pathe, Periscope films etc). In the future I may be able to afford clips :)
Q: Why do you sometimes feature images/screenshots from flight simulators?
A: Sometimes there are not a lot of photos available for certain aircraft, so I substitute this with digital images that are as accurate as possible.
Feel free to leave you questions below - I may not be able to answer all of them, but I will keep my eyes open :)
Don't know if they're on your list, but they are interesting, the Tarrant Tabor and the Linke-Hoffman R.8/15 would be great to see. Apparently a pilot described the latter as 'not an aircraft, but a sickness' or words to that effect!
I'd be interested in Polish aircraft of the 30s.
Thank you so much for covering this aircraft it's one of my favorite lesser known planes!! If at all possible could you cover the finnish aircraft that looks similar to the bf109? (the name is so complicated I won't try to spell it)
@@zxbzxbzxb1 The Tabor is on my list, but I have now added the R.8/15 too :)
@@mdcampbell7360 I've got a few video scripts half finished on some Polish designs, I'm just waiting on a book to arrive that covers some of the finer details :)
Having served in the Swedish airforce, and having an interest in aircraft history, I found this video very interesting. I've read about the first SAAB plane but the video makes history more alive.
What aircraft did you fly if you have
About three years ago, while waiting for amuch delayed friend just outside Linköping, I saw the airworthy B17 flying around the city. I dunno why it was up there, but I was surprised at how long it was buzzing around. Well over 45 minutes. It was flying surprisingly low. The sound of the engine was spectacular!
B17 or B17?
Living in Linköping, and a former SAAB employee. It was nice to see this video.
The airworthy B17 pops up in the sky, now and then. Saw it a cpl of months ago, training or doing a display over malmen airfield. Fun to see they give it a proper go, now and then.
Fun fact: After WWII when demand for warplanes decreased and SAAB started producing cars they painted them with leftover aircraft paint, and continued paint the cars in these colours up through the 60's. My father had such a light blue SAAB car when I was a child, and in my garage I still have ½ a small can of original light blue paint from the SAAB company. Perhaps some vintage car owner could use it?
The old SAAB cars are definitely really cool, with some real oddball stuff like a 2-Stroke sports car.
That paint is probably long gone.
@@pontushaggstrom6261 Yes for sure. I guess it only lasted for some years, but then they seem to have kept the colour scheeme after the original paint ran out. My father's late 1960s SAAB was light sky-blue, like underneath a warplane's wings. I still have a small can of original SAAB paint. It has been opened but there's still liquid inside. I guess it's about half full.
Weirdly most people like the wings of a dive bomber to stay with the plane when it’s diving, apart from that, it seems to be a successful aircraft!!
Meh wings are overrated me thinks
Wings only cause drag when diving. The tail is more than adequate to steer.
The upside to having the wings fall off in the dive is that now the whole plane is a dive bomb. BANZAI !!!
@@unknowntraveller8633
That kind of thinking led to the F-104.
That landing gear setup is actually pretty cool
Meh, ugly engineering hack to save money and make life easier. It’s hideous and cheap IMHO.
An interesting little plane! It bears some resemblance to the SB2c.
I thought it looked more like some Vought aircraft, like the OS2U Kingfisher. The tail especially reminds me of that plane and the F4U Corsair.
@@DABrock-author Yes, true!
I owned a Saab once, the car, not the aircraft, although I bought it because of the aircraft.
It was an old Saab 900 OG and a fun machine to drive. We painted it army green and gave it Swedish military markings.
I still have my 1985 Saab 900 and had an 86 turbo 900 yrs ago...
From the time i found this a/c in Green's 1955 Combat Aircraft, w/ that big American greenhouse canopy & clean look, it was a favorite
Best cars and best modern fighters, produced in south a small country, is extremely impressive.
My country had the J 35J Draken.
Actually I one day observed two of them, playing fight over my nabouring fjord.
One thing I observed was the cobra maneuvers.
I recognize that my memories are way later than this great video.
I just couldn't help it.
From the USA, and as a former kid from the '70's, the Draken impressed me as quite the cool airplane. There were some flying in California many years ago at the National Test Pilot School in the city of Mojave, but not recently.
I miss saab cars. My family had a 1986 9000 turbo, manual transmission in a metallic silver blue which changed from silver to blue depending on light and angle, which had purple velour interior, an 87 non turbo dark red with beige velour interior and an automatic trans, and a turbo automatic 1988 9000 in thr same red with beige/tan leather interior. The manual one was my favorite to drive but i always lusted over a white one which was also turbo manual with black velour i used to see often in town. We had those cars for many years. Untill 2009. We would have kept them forever but it became difficult to keep the electronics working as the hot australian summers here made the plastic sheathing on the wiring loom in the dashboard all crumble off the wire and caused short circuits and intermittant faults. Aside from that. They were the nicest non japanese car ive ever owned, and i would love to have another one someday. Perhaps one that has spent more time in a garage than outside. I would get another wiring loom made to suit it so there was no risk of fire or of the car turning off at random.
Best cars and best modern fighters? lol wow. 🤣 Their car division is bankrupt and had bizarre unreliable vehicles for decades; their aircraft division’s “crowning achievement” is a non-stealth 1980s-era short-range fighter in the Gripen.
No, just… no.
@@EstorilEm Do you feel better now?
@@EstorilEm The car division was separated quite early, and funnily enough, was never profitable.
It was always owned by other companies who basically bought it and used it for their research and that's one reason why many SAAB cars had unusual and inventive features.
Absolutely love you covering the more outlandish designs of the interwar period!
More SAABs please! Good stuff.
Another great video. How about looking into the Romanian airforce and planes.
I support this idea the IAR 81 is an amazing plane
Romanian planes are on my list :)
Love love love these videos! I have been introduced to so many unique and lesser known aircraft thanks to you. Thanks so much for taking the time to makes these!
3:46 what a splendid landing gear
The Drakken is definitely one of the coolest looking delta (can it be called a delta wing airplane?) wing jets around. Good to see SAAB got off to a good start.
One “k” in Draken. But yes, a double or cracked delta.
@@903lew aah. Thought I misspelled it but wasn't sure lol.
Looks so much better than a full delta wing.
The question remains, why would any competent engineer go with a Delta wing when trying to design a fast but short field capable aircraft? It worked out real well and is arguably the best fighter jet of its generation but their was no way to predict that it would work out so well beforehand.
One of the nicest looking production jets ever.
dorito wing
As recently as last Friday, these ladders / platforms from production were useful at my workplace. 😎👌
I noticed them myself; I am both a tradesman ans collector of older equipment...
Hey! It's the flying T Rex of war thunder fame! Great to see your now moving into aviation history.
I’m slowly watching all your videos during my lunch breaks at work these are the best
I enjoy your channel very much. Thank you.
I love a good saab story.
That was a really good WW2 aircraft.
Sweden would be unstoppable if it interfened in ww2 stronger than the nazis soviets czechs slovaks and even the americans
Great to se you cover the SAAB B17! Cheers from Sweden!
Very interesting video. Saabs car adverts never indicated that they ever made any aircraft, oh wait... 🤭
Get ready for a boost in views. MSFS just released a B17A for their new world update.
great choice ! swedish aviation has a fantastic history
Was attracted 2 this a/c by it's strangely misplaced American look, suspect the P&W engines might have had an influence, but now attribute this 2 the shortlived Yank design presence.
Your rate & unique quality of production of these videos is amazing 💜.
Very good looking plane.
l love all your posts explicit and well detailed THANKS
i've never heard much about Vickers Windsor, Thanks.
Thank you for posting Imperial numbers, for those of us still learning Metric.
Pretty elaborate aircraft for a first try, therefore leading to my wondering where they obtained the engineering expertise, and you answered my question. It looks a bit like a Vultee or Vought design. Great presentation.
ASJA (the aircraft department of the Swedish Railway Workshop) hired some American engineers in the mid 1930’s. ASJA got merged with other Swedish aviation interests to form SAAB…
ASJA also built North American NA-16 trainers (the ancestor of the Texan) and Northrop 8A-1 (A-17) under license.
The prototype of the Ju87 was built in Sweden. They had a large aircraft industry by then.
@@dougstubbs9637
They also supplied Nazi Germany with Iron Ore throughout the war. Neutral country but pro Nazi indeed
@@loveofmangos001 not pro nazi
@@loveofmangos001 And where else would they get coal from, with Germany occupying Denmark and Norway on one side and the Soviet Union at war with Finland on the other? Welcome to the real world.
Does anyone else here think that this plane has a definite "Japanese" aircraft profile?
Your doing a great job with this youtube channel!
Your videos make me miss playing WarThunder...
Finaly you cover some of our aircraft, noice
Just for your information Rex, my right hand has developed a sort of Pavlov's Dog reflex in that when my eye scans across "Rex's Hangar" it clicks on the video without informing either my mind or body.
The only other subscribe that gets that response is _Drachinifel._
Thanks for all your work and Cheers from E. Ontario, Canada, another land of moose and snow but sadly no aircraft industry, damit.
A good and well-researched episode! But, the info that the wings could fall of while diving, I've never heard of that. So I did some research, found no such thing mentioned. I then proceeded to look up the individual history of each of the first 90(!) aircraft produced. There were no wing breakage, actually there wasn't any wing failure of any kind during their service life.
I think you must have confused the B17 and the B16. The Caproni B16 was infamous in Swedish service, with some instances of wings coming off, which considering it wasn't at all built for dive bombing isn't all that surprising.
If you ever decide to make videos on jets, could you consider to make a video about the Javelin, as it’s my favorite plane ever
Yep! The "other" B-17. 😁
It's such a shame that Saab the car-company went down under. Such an peculiar company with quite rather interesting cars. And planes!
If they were any good, they wouldn’t have gone under. They were basically a bad version of 1990s Volvos lmao. Complex, unreliable, poor performance (even the Aeros) and priced as a “luxury” car. Plus good luck finding a dealership nearby… impossible to find parts and no mechanic wanted to touch them with a 10’ pole, had a ton of teething issues from major engine problems to rust and paint stuff.
It’s not a shame that they went under lol, if you can’t compete and have a crap product, you’re not going to be successful.
It's interesting to compare this to the Douglas DB8a, designed by Jack Northrop, which entered Swedish service in 1938, licence-built by ASJA and, later, SAAB. While the SAAB B17 isn't a simple case of reverse engineering it seems likely that many lessons were drawn from the DB8a. It would be interesting to know if any of the 48 or so American engineers involved in development of the SAAB B17 had some connection with Northrop, Douglas, or the licence building arrangement for the DB8a.
I'm thinking the same thing. See my other comment.
Thank you
The Italian engine you elegantly did not name was the Piaggio P.XI (11) RC.40D rated at 1000 hp, which was a license built version of the Gnome Rhone Mistral Major 14K. And Piaggio is pronounced Peeah-Joe.
Thank you Rex
That's a pretty trick idea with the landing gear covers
Reminds me of the Curtis SB2C.
Hey rex,wow landing gear with"skirts", great vid👍👊
Remained in service till 1969 with Eithopia
Yeesss ! First and about my favourite aircraft company
Very neat design
After vowing to minimize my subscriptions. I just subscribed to your swell channel.
One does wonder whether the wings detached before or after the bomb was released. The pilot would be presented with some interesting options.
Experimental weight-shedding technology lol
Nice. And I'm not surprised American designers were brought in on this project. There's something positively Vultee-ish about that plane.
I really like your videos.
I would guess that the Italian engine was the Piaggio P. XI which was a licensed version of the Gnome-Rhone 14K/N. Sweden had purchased some 50 Regianne Re-2000 Falco that used this engine.
the B17 from the swedish air force museum flies quite often over our house! tho wish they would repaire the B18 dive Bomber.. and fly it!
Wow. Talking about a rugged airplane. Hats off for the Swedish.
Last summer (2021), only flyingworth example flyed in Helsinki Airshow, Finland.
A true SAAB story.
Hope you'll do the J-21.
Interesting aircraft. Looks a bit like the Brewster SB2A Buccaneer. Except for the odd looking undercarriage. They remind me of the waders worn by fishermen.
I would hazard a guess that the American designers were brought in from Chance Vought, they are more then few similarities to a Corsair.
Ah, my favorite light bomber in War Thunder
You have to wonder whether any of those US designers/engineers worked for Chance Vought. That empennage is almost a one-for-one copy of the OS2U Kingfisher.
Saab was built with german engineers. Saab also used German WW2 developments regarding earo dynamics on anomg other wing designs. This was smart. They didnt re-invent the wheel.
Congrats for your very interesting work. Videos talking about WW2 era planes from neutral countries are uncommon AFAIK. Do you plan to focus on this category ?
Lovely.
can you do J22 aswell? it's a wonderful aircraft and i'd like you to cover it up in this channel!
@RexsHangar >>> 👍👍
Wheeeeeeeeee! Next, do one on the Draken! 😁
AMAZINGNES!!!
I love the series. I would have liked to know how an aircraft of this type manages to use a bombsight though. I have looked at pictures and can't see a window that could be used for the purpose.
Can you cover the polish air force I think it would be interesting given how in some ways the polish air force was very modern in some way and obsolite in other ways.
According to Jane's Sweden was able to coax 1600bhp from the R1830. Can you look into that?
SAAB made some great cars from 80-2010 also
They made great cars starting in the 40s....
A plane which looks a bit clunky on the ground but actually good in the air!
Nohab being involved in aircraft building is a bit a surprise to me, as they were far more known from building locomotives, ships and heavy machinery.
Add to that: ASJ is far more known for building railway coaches (and locomotives)
Dear authors, in my perception,there is an antagonism between power and abilities. PLease, aircraft are not politicians, they do serve longer and better. Paul, 67, retired teacher, amateur, historian.
nice looking ...except for the wheel arrangement.
Good Evening Everyone
I think I love the design of this plane. I also love that they gave it an annoying name to confuse historians (unintentionally but still.)
"And, Sweden being Sweden, home to moose and snow, the aircraft could also be equipped with retractable landing skis."
How are landing skis supposed to help with landing on a moose? Wouldn't some sort of padded grappling claw be more appropriate? And how would they handle the G forces of such a sudden stop? And how would the moose handle it? Or was the moose considered expendable, on the premise that the moose population was greater than the expected number of landings?
BTW, there are no moose in Sweden. The term "moose" is applied to the animal in North America. In Europe, the same animal is called "elk", because Europe does not have the large members of the deer family that Americans call the elk.
Not correct about the moose.
@@danwe878
How so? If you're going to say someone is wrong, then explain why or else it's just your own opinion.
Not to minimize the Swedish design team, but I'd be curious to learn more about the American engineers and their contributions. Aircraft companies at the time seemed to have a corporate design language for things like wing planform. I see a lot of Northrop/Douglas in this plane (SBD Dauntless), as well as some Vought -- the OS2U Kingfisher-like greenhouse and rudder.
"Sweden being Sweden, home to moose and snow, the aircraft could also be equipped with retractable landing skis."
Well, that's fine for the snow. But what about the moose? Was that the purpose of the wing mounted machine guns, or was there provision for a steel tube "moose cage" to fit around the nose and propellor?
My SAAB 9-3 is still in worthy condition.
You should try the shortlived Saab 600.
I believe the Swedish airforce operated Northop A-17s before their own SAAB 17s
Interesting how both SAAB as well as FFVS (producing the J-22) had government origins.
Australian built Beaufort Mk VIII?
There IS a decidedly American look to this aircraft. It would not look out of place in a collection of Vultee, Brewster, Vought, Brewster and Northrop contemporaries.
This plane created IKEA. Serious.
So, obviously this plane gave SAAB their start. After the war SAAB needed new income so they decided to make cars. The owner of a SAAB had to disassemble a piece of furniture to get it home when he realised a business selling sturdy, assemble-at-home furniture kits would be brilliant. His name was Ingvar Kamprad and he is the newest god. We praise his name, Valhallelujah.
3:30 "rökning förbjuden" smoking verboten
What is that sign (~3:00) in the background "Farbjuden" about?
Rökning förbjuden = No smoking.
I like the look of the 17, except the landing gear. There has to be a better way to make that look a lot less like Lego than this. The rest of the shape is good.
Avro Arrow?
Weird aircraft facts. Sweden had the fourth largest air force in the world at one point in the Cold War. At the end of WW2, Canada same, and after they started demobilising, Australia.
Although Sweden’s more impressive, Canada and Australia only because in 1945 Germany and Japan were out of the picture, and Italy and France still rebuilding.
Here's another weird fact: at one time, Texas had more camels than Africa and the Middle East combined, and Florida had more heads of cattle than Texas!
I wonder if those American engineers were from Vought or Grumman...
What about polish Airforce pzl 11c.
Those aircrafts where available for other countries, but delivered in parts with a notice to put it together. 🙄 (a missing screw could happen)
But it looks like a Curtis Helldiver ! 😳😳😳😳
How does one even get to Sweden from the US in 1940 ? Yikes that would be scary
Passenger liner, freighter or flying.
Sweden was neutral during WW2 and conveniently so for both combatants. Flights in and out of Sweden would, I imagine, be off limits from attack.
Both Britain and Germany recognized Swedish neutrality, so Swedish airliners could continue to fly to other countries and ships flying a Swedish flag could continue to sail freely.
Not to say it was completely safe; there was no guarantee that a fighter pilot or u-boat captain would not shoot first before looking for markings, but such cases were uncommon as combatants generally did try hard to identify potential targets first, to avoid friendly fire incidents and to avoid pissing off neutrals and possibly inducing them to join the other side.
Germany relied on Sweden for their iron ore, a critical resource, and they didn't have the strength to take it by force. Britain was thankful to have a neutral nation in the middle of conquered or Axis-aligned Scandinavia. So neither side wanted to really upset Sweden, and international travel to and from was still possible.
@@brucegibbins3792
Hmph! You beat me to it as I was typing my long winded reply. 😉
@@mikearmstrong8483 "and they didn't have the strength to take it by force." What? Where did you got that silly idea?
@@Bialy_1
Study where the iron mines in Sweden are located. Study Swedish defense philosophy. Study the fact that Germany couldn't win a 2 front war, let alone opening a 3rd front.
Sweden is not open steppes like western Russia. No blitzkrieg there. German forces would have completely bled themselves dry trying to get to the mines in the far north, and would have found them trashed if by some miracle they got there.
May I suggest you post responses based on researching the facts rather than going off a gut opinion that the Germans were invincible?
The wings kept falling off