Framework's Linux Expert Explains Why Framework makes the Best Laptop for Linux Users
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 พ.ค. 2024
- We sat down with Framework's Linux Support Lead, Matt Hartley, at Open Source Summit to learn all about how Framework supports the open source community.
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I have the Framework Laptop 16. I applied the 3.03 UEFI update through fwupd yesterday, and it was relatively easy! Not to mention that everything worked under Linux; even the fingerprint sensor something that on most Windows laptops (apart from ThinkPads) usually doesn't work on Linux, but here it works and works well!
If you guys keep this up and keep offering great repairability and upgrade options for us users, then you guys will continue to get my full support!
Ditto. Can't wait for FedEx to deliver mine. This is the closest thing to the de-facto Linux laptop, for all intents and purposes.
Same for me on the Framework 13 with I5-1340P, everything works perfect...
Got even the fingerprint reader to work on Manjaro Cinnamon, which isn't officially supported...
Just the battery life varies a lot, depending on the tasks. The battery lasts 5 to 7 hours, with office work or coding in an IDE. Accidentally watching a 4k60 fps TH-cam video due to auto-play, can drain it in about an hour and a half... And yes that's with the brightness at 10%...
May I know how does AMD dGPU perform?
@simondj8572 At 1920x1200, I unfortunately don't have any games with a benchmark, so I'd have to get back to you once I try Cyberpunk 2077 or play a bit of another newer game. I wouldn't attempt ray-tracing though, but ray-tracing needs upscaling anyway and you don't enable it with less than 12 GB of vRAM, even at 1080p, especially if you don't use upscaling.
Granted, I'm running on Linux, so Proton game play may not be perfect with Mangohud, but I'll try running a few games and see what happens.
@@timmy7201 Out of curiosity, do you have hardware acceleration on / active ? You can verify on one of the browsers special pages, but I don't remember exactly which ones. Because your case of only 90 minutes or so of video watching sounds like the CPU did the decoding instead of the iGPU media engine. It should last, I think, 10-12 hours with that.
Matt Hartley! A legend on the community forum ❤️
I love reading Matt's posts on the community forum. It is the first time in more than 20 years of using Linux on my computers, that I feel treated as a prime customer (and I'm not even using Fedora or Ubuntu) by this company and Matt's appearance on the community forum is a huge part of this experience!
"as a prime customer" - That there is a big deal. I am so tired of manufacturers treating us Linux users like second class citizens.
@@GeekIWG Heck, if you want a laptop with a dGPU and Linux, you either have to go with an expensive Lenovo workstation, a Linux focused laptop with almost always worse screen options, worse build quality, and worse ports, or just accept that things won't 100% work on Linux.
Framework is probably the closest thing that there is to a Linux laptop with a dGPU (the Fedora Slimbook Gen 2 wasn't an option at the time, and it's also still stuck on 13th gen Intel CPUs).
@@cameronbosch1213 Indeed. I have a laptop with hybrid Intel+Nvidia graphics and it is just a pain, plus I never did get it to work with Wayland.
I'm so happy to see you having Matt on board! I remember regularly listening to him on a podcast with Lunduke _(before he went off the deep end and nuked his channel)._ Matt seems to bring such a positive energy. I feel confident that if I ever end up having one of your laptops, I'll be completely fine using Linux
Wow, getting Matt Hartley to be their head Linux person and brand spokesman is definitely a sign of how Framework sees this as a crucial market for them. Next step: Offer a keyboard option that changes the Windows logo key to the word “Super,” or maybe a Tux logo.
they already did, on the 16 inch version anyway, the international english keyboard has a linux version, granted the super key just says the word super instead of Tux but that's fine
@@krypton7900 Well, hopefully that’ll come to the 13-inch soon.
love this attitude from a company, writing this comment from my recently arrived b10 framework 16!
i ran into a few issues with my linux install(s) but the official forums had all the info i needed, this is a great community
I use Arch on my AMD FW13 btw
No company is your friend but the community around a company could be so. Thanks for being around!
I wish you could scale up globally though
The best Linux laptop so far
Matt was the best part of the Linux action show. I used to tune in every week when he was a part of the show. It's great to see him being a part of this company.
IT'S MATT!!! :O I HAVEN'T SEEN HIM ON TH-cam IN YEARRSS!!!
So glad to see he's well. He's for sure a linux og 😎
Thought I recognised Matt from the thumbnail, been years since I saw him on TH-cam.
Thank you so much Framework team for supporting Linux! I have two framework 13" laptops currently and absolutely love them! Please make sure you stick to your core values and don't go "evil" and I'll keep buying your stuff!
Good to hear this. Framework is on top of my list for my next (Linux) laptop.
Framework has given me hope. It's about time we have a sane option for laptops.
Very happy with my FW16, upgraded to bios 3.03. Thank you.
I love my Framework 13 for Linux software development.
Most Linux laptops seem to cost a fair bit more than Windows or Mac laptops and I appreciate Framework keeping the cost down while still having great Linux support.
Awesome stuff! I have that same shirt! It makes me happy that Framework supports Linux so well.
Upgraded my framework 13 AMD bios to 3.05 and installed 24.04 LTS fresh just today and it all went flawless. Mine is a batch 3 11th gen that was upgraded to AMD. All the upgrades went smooth and now even Linux is fully stable on zen4. Just wish the Bios was a lot better, ie actually having options exposed to end user vs me having to use special tools to get in to the hidden menus. From a software engineer and Linux system Admin Awesome work and keep it up!
Oh wow, Matt! I used to see his posts and guides all over the place 👍🏾
Received my Laptop 13 with an AMD Ryzen 7 in December, coincidentally the same day ZORIN OS 17 was released. Installation was a walk in the park, everything (including the fingerprint reader) works out of the box - and stable.
Updated to BIOS v3.05 meanwhile.
Framework's concept is great:
Maintenance (such as cleaning out the dust once in a while) as well as the ability to repair (just think about the battery after some time) and upgrade is highly welcome. Also is the individual configuration of interfaces with the expansion modules.
Never ever before have I experienced that feeling of freedom and ownership like now with my Framework Laptop 13.
Lots of potential not only for B2E, but also - if not even more - for B2B. Business customers just need to realize it.
Curious about the things to come: variety of expansion modules, additional keyboard layouts, touch screen, touch pad with a designated num-block, more function indicators for the power-LED, and probably dimming the display brightness some more.
Thanks, guys. Keep up your excellent work, and just keep it coming!
👍😎💻⚙
That's awesome that Framework is making such an effort to support desktop Linux! I'm highly considering going with Framework the next time I need a new laptop.
I bought the laptop precisely because it works well with linux and I was not disaponted. Would recommend!
Love the support for Linux on the framework and good to know we have a Linux man that cares at it good job and keep it coming I love my framework laptop
Nice!! Matt!
Hello Matt! It's me, Danvid.
Hey man! Took me a sec and then I was all, hey, I know this guy! 😅
my first reaction: sure, everyone calls themselves a "Linux expert" these days.
seeing it's Matt Hartley: okay, that's actually legit.
I didn't know Matt was involved with Framework, but that's great!
Amazing work. Thanks a lot👍🏼
Great job team. Fedora 39 and 40 have been amazing on my FW13.
totally support framework’s job, they even permitted their laptop module standard for every other manufacturer. This is the only laptop i wanna buy, unfortunately it is selling in US yet only and also no other manufacturer make this laptop yet.
I hope the Framework customer-first and repair-minded ways start showing up in the competition. The take-it-apart-all-the-way thing may not be for everyone, but repairable and upgradeable is something every company should strive for to reduce e-waste and make the world generally better.
I also hope the open source vibe expands -- maybe less new chip makers that collaborate openly instead of those NDA partnerships will pop up, or AMD and Intel and Nvidia will open up, realizing they can turn a profit AND be more open source...
Yup. Just because it's repairable doesn't mean the user has to be the one repairing it. With Apple products, you can't bring it to any shop most of the time, and even Apple themselves often won't/can't repair things
@@noisycarlos exactly. If Dell, HP, Apple, etc. just made it easier for techs to get in, and didn’t change designs between models to purposefully break compatibility, it would go a long way. Good example being Acer Chromebooks - they do things like change port placement from one model year to another, slightly change batteries, frames, etc. when they could just update the internal components and use the same frames… makes for a lot of ewaste when schools need to replace the whole fleet because they can’t repair with new parts
You guys are a game changer. Pathmaker to this new path of computing. Had my framework 16 since march. Haven't been happier.
Been using Linux on my Framework for over a year now, best experience with any computer I’ve ever had.
Love this!
BEAUTIFUL! Start support for LINUX MINT and POP_OS !
They are mostly Ubuntu based, so they should be the same.
That''s cool and all, but when will you consider the EU as the single market that it is? Still waiting to be able to get one up here in the Nordics.
Love seeing Matt out in the meatspace! Thanks for showcasing another cool Framework employee and having him share his thoughts and opinions about Framework and Linux!
Amazing video, more linux stuff please!
I bought my fw with windows and now highly considering installing Linux when it arrives
I have LOVED my 16. I am getting ready to try Linux for gaming in it 😄
I'd love to see a coreboot/dasharo/qubesos certified motherboard.
So when do we see chassis bottom in the store?
I mean... I got my 16 the same day the Ubuntu 24.04 was officially released.
I installed 24.04, stock kernel. Seemed to work fine including fingerprint reader. Rebooted, firmware updated. No issues.
In part that's Linux in 2024 being a pretty smooth experience, but I remember when a new laptop meant having to patch and compile at least one driver from some tarball, and something else (like fingerprint reader) just had no driver.
So far so good. Framework ftw.
I have only recently started using Linux. Been messing around with it to understand it.
I use Arch btw.
Will you support openindiana for enterprise customers ? Perhaps you could issue hardware specs for distributions to build solutions around ?
I can't wait for my Framework to show up, definitely gonna run Ubuntu 22.04 LTS on it!
Wenn will we get a bios update tool
My main question is will be there an option to add an OLED display with VRR and 10 bit colour support?
I wish the questions were read out aloud for accessibility (or in my case: doing the laundry while listening to the interview)
Ah, this is good feedback. 😊
before i started this video i thought to myself “if he specifically mentions fedora then my next laptop is gonna be framework.” too cool.
I'm ready for framework to rule the space and force its competition to go the same route! Save this planet from all this e-waste! Thank you Framework!!!
Please battery life increase :D
I bought a Starlabs laptop, but the next one might be from you guys ❤
I use arch on my FW btw
Nix btw
Framework and System76 should work together imo to make a really good experience out of the box for Linux users :-)
I wouldn't be upset if they offer Framework Laptops with Pop!_OS and/or coreboot!
My next private laptop will be Framework and I am also talking to my firm's IT department to get Framework as an option to be selected for all employees.
Framework I hope becomes the largest laptop maker in the world and never changes!
I wish that they can redesign Framework Laptop 13 have Dual-Touch-Screen. Fix noise of the fan and heat problem. Plus allow the user can change GPU, Intel Core Ultra. And add (2) Slots storage. Framework Laptop 16 is too big for me.
Does Framework use WiFi cards that work with a libre kernel? If not, which cards compatible with the laptop do?
You can get without wifi and use your own module afaik
@@Beryesa. yeah I know that, but if theirs works I'd take it, and also I haven't found one that works with libre kernels yet, specially for newer WiFi 6 and 7 chips, do you know of any?
@@mateowoetam they use MediaTek chips, which shaky compatibility with Linux.
So when will see a Snapdragon Elite X Framework with non-soldered RAM plus 120Hz VRR display and a 60Wh+ battery?
If ever, then probably 3 - 5 years at the minimum. Apart from macOS, there just aren't that many ARM apps.
Either way, I'm more excited for RISC-V. ARM is already on the way out in comparison, especially when they try to pick legal fights with one of their biggest vendors (Qualcomm).
@@cameronbosch1213 well, ARM on Linux has been a long way, at least for me it wouldn't be too much of a hassle.
Regarding Windows, x86/64 to ARM emulation works pretty good (even better considering that was made by Microsoft themselves) so guess it shouldn't be too problematic except for those pieces of software that need kernel drivers or whatever.
Anyhow, ARM ecosystem is much more mature, RISC-V is growing at this moment and it may worth the wait while using ARM.
The only thing I want is an almost fanless laptop that can hold its battery for a long day and can sleep for more than a couple days (miss the S3 suspension and hate Microsoft for forcing us to use the broken Modern Standby).
So then, I'll keep dreaming about that. 😅
@@JoaquinVacas The problem is that most users probably won't want it for several years. And Qualcomm seems to have faked some benchmarks, of course (we'll have to wait and see if they're even close to as good as AMD's offerings).
@@cameronbosch1213 Yeah, if the Qualcomm's promises are just bullsh*t, I'll stick with AMDs, which has proven that X86/64 can be much more efficient than their competitor and seems that Zen 5 will rise IPC greatly again. 👌
So why the 7700s and not the 7800m xt or even better the 7900m?
Matt is Amazing and always loved chatting with him. He has a wealth of knowledge.
But why do the Bios updates not ship over fwupd?
They do. I just did it over fwupd. (I did it over the command line, but it has been released for the 16 inch model.)
- Stop using MediaTek wifi chips, or push them into supporting Linux properly.
- Fix the BIOS update process. You can't tell people that it's the best laptop for Linux users and then ask them to use a drive with Windows on it to update the BIOS!
- Be aggressive with the availability in more regions. There's plenty of countries that share the vision of Framework and are ready to give you money for your product. Bonus points if you can keep the pricing reasonable for those regions.
This right here. Not to mention Intel Wi-Fi cards are hard to find. Though Intel hasn't been perfect either in my experience without a special config file.
The Framework Laptops do support fwupd now. I just did it a few days ago on my 16 inch Framework Laptop, and I'm running Arch (I did use the command-line to initiate it, but it was all in Linux).
Watching this on my Framework on Nobara Linux lol
I'd like if framework would be the best option for Linux, but without official fwupd that is unfortunately a no go :(
Open orders for Denmark(EU) so i can get a proper laptop without some illegal actions needed to get my hands on 1!
I want framework's keyboards to have a better selection. Almost all of them have the windows logo for no reason. Just use the framework logo. The "linux" keyboard is International English and it just puts text that says start. Just put the framework logo there!
I think the word "super" (it's not start) is much more professional than a logo. I don't like the older System76 laptops with a workspaces icon as much, and I really don't like the cartoons Tux Penguin logo used on Tuxedo laptops (or the keyboard at all on those laptops).
Ironically, I'm watching on a Framework 13 running Fedora 39 :P
Disappointed you don’t support PopOS :/
But stellar support is good.
DIY _starting_ at $1899.00 in Canadian Pesos. And we get to pay tax-on-tax. I'd buy and happily run Arch, but holy cow that''s a steep price-point. I'm holding-off for a year or so until I see _consistently_ good reviews and hopefully a price-break.
Many of the review units of the 16 inch model weren't final hardware. My unit, which I bought and _is_ final hardware, is near perfect. Even on Arch.
@@cameronbosch1213 Yeah, noticed that. Anyways I'm glad it's working out for you! I share the same near-evangelical zeal as others here to break out of Corporate walled gardens and regain full granular control of our tech, even with my limited skill-set and knowledge-base. I have high hopes for Framework, that they rock the industry and can scale-up enough to bring the price down a bit. Even if I had a million dollars, I'd never buy Apple, given Their atrocious conduct and smarmy ways, and looking at the rest of the offerings currently available on the laptop market, I'm very likely to take the plunge with a 16. Just...not quite yet.
india launch in this decade ?
than why do framework laptops ship with windows or no operating system but dont ship with linux? not to mention the proprietary firmware.
This is a good question. I can answer the OS question.
The DIY ships without an OS as unlike Windows, there are a lot of distros our users prefer.
So if we locked in in XYZ distro, most of our Linux customers will wipe the drive and install what they want anyway.
@@the-real-matthartleyI kind of agree with that for the DIY edition, but I do think giving a pre-built option with the latest version of Ubuntu LTS or Fedora pre-installed could greatly help people who want to try Linux but don't want to go the fully DIY route.
Framework supports Linux in the same way as System76, Tuxedo or Slimbook do. Any bugs found are reported and possibly fixed by their own developers.
Correct, depending on the bug type - internally escalated for engineering, externally escalated with our distro partners.
Why hyperfocus on Ubuntu rather than Debian?
We are working on community support for Debian, however, for AMD offerings, there are number of things that have to be done in Debian to make it work. Stuff that's ootb in Ubuntu 24.04.
Do you have a list of things that need to be done on Debian? I'm getting my Framework 16 soon and would love to run Debian on it.
@@Daniel15auI second this. Maybe it's that the kernel in Debian 12 is too old (6.1 isn't very new afaik)?
Also, I don't think Debian has new enough DE packages for a desktop experience, especially when it comes to GNOME, less so with KDE Plasma, but still. (For servers, I'm more okay with Debian Stable, but I would be cautious about using such old system packages on a desktop computer, especially since Mesa has had many new releases since Debian 12.)
@@cameronbosch1213 yeah I'd use Debian testing, with security updates from unstable (since the Debian security team only upload to unstable and stable, and packages may take a while to reach testing). Has newer packages but should still be more stable than rolling distros.
please release to countries with highest numbers of linux users, those countries love to repair things themselves too and believe in long term usage of devices
Framework on SouthAmerica when, my country taxes high fees for products above 200 USD, those prices (even if you'll charge 20% more) are really nice for a product that aligns to my values, sadly there's no product rather than Desktop PC (partially) or overpriced used Thinkpads, were kind of stuck, please save South America framework!!!!! Fedora 40 rocks
No trackpoint, no dice.
I Wish if it was Available in INDIA. Where people looking for a hardware that they can use for a longer time. India is the best place for this Start UP.
make hotswappable rtx 4090 and ryzen 9 and then we r happy
I think Nvidia really didn't want to work with Framework, and AMD doesnt have high-end Radeon options below 150 watts (the Radeon RX 7700S in this laptop maxes out at 100 watts) this generation which is why there's nothing higher for now.
They do have a Ryzen 9 7940HS option; they literally cannot put an HX CPU in this chassis due to thermal constraints as well as the fact that the iGPU is barely usable on the HX CPUs (HX from both Intel & AMD basically require a dGPU to run well).
@@cameronbosch1213 you are right
Hopefully these issues are fix w/ next gen framework + they use those new fanless air coolers for thermal!
Ah yes, the Touch Grass advice...
`% touch grass
touch: cannot touch 'grass': Permission denied`
Am I doing something wrong?
@@chic_luke just chmod beforehand
@@chic_luke *This incident will be reported.*
:)
Linux on Qualcomm SD X Elite is probably the next step.
Look at all the driver issues Framework have had with intel. Qualcomm is the answer, drop Intel.
I am disappointed to learn that Debian is not "in hyper focus". Canonical and Red Hat are borderline rug-pulling for-profit companies, aiming your support at them is counter to the open spirit of Linux. They should aim their support at you while you aim to make the most popular non-commercial truly open distros like Debian, Arch and Gentoo.
-Now update the BIOS-
We need 4K screen and intel core ultra cpu motherboard for framework 16
It doesn't make sense for a laptop to have 4K screens as they drain a lot of battery, so manufacturers usually stay away from it. Just buy your own small 4K screen and put it in the laptop if you have the skill, Framework seem to totally want you to do that.
Matt Hartley just told you to touch grass.
Hey bro why don't yall make a customisable upgradable easily repairable monitor or should I say tv? it will be a loooot more profitable than that laptop... and useful to people btw (most cant live without it). like only 1 in a 10000 electronics users in the world will buy a 1000$ laptop... almost 7000+ has a tv... and are tired of display going out... you will probably get a profit of less than 30% of what you get now... but you will be selling to 1000x COrNSyouMyERs. literally every "upper middle class and below" human being will buy it... like there is literally no reason for yall to NOT do this. I will give you my personal thanks if you were ever to build a display that can be repaired part by part... so will the whole world (except the capitalists who makes (just the fund part) products that gets damaged after a time, "Knowingly").
Why it's not the best: expensive. Like 3 times more expensive over the years if you're buying upgrades, instead of buying 2x $1000 laptop and having nothing to upgrade. It's hard financially to support your idea of sustainability
regardless what you linux users say, I ain't giving up on Windows with a seamless user experience.
*It Just Works*
sure...
It just shows ads.
Now explain why Framework makes the ugliest Linux laptop.
remove 30,000 points is hyperbole.
Well that's one reason to never buy one, great product but the wrong platform is getting all the attention.
?
im assuming youre talking about linux vs windows? windows is plenty supported with driver updates and is far easier to install and use all the features than linux
please correct me if im wrong
"wrong"
Bruh You can buy Framework DIY version with 100$ less and you have to prepare your own OS
What do you mean? Windows is not getting any attention, so why do you say it is getting all the attention?
Ye? Where is MUX switch then? Best laptop...
You're right on that regard unfortunately. On Linux, there isn't a MUX. I hoped they would add an option at them minimum in the BIOS/UEFI, but sadly they don't seem to want to...