Regarding Romanian folklore stories, Muma Pădurii is indeed an evil spirit, but her daughter, although truly enchanting, has a good heart. If you want to learn more about them, you should read Făt-Frumos din Lacrimă, which loosely translates to Prince Charming from a tear by Mihai Eminescu. Also, the daughter has indeed powers, but she doesn’t use them unless for bringing the hero back to life.
I was wondering if you would consider doing a video on the original tale of Persephone and Hades, given in the original she went to the underworld of her own accord and was intent on staying there, the main reason it's perceived as her being held against her will is because Demeter kicked up a fuss about it, thus why the pomegranate only had 6 seeds when it would normally have hundreds. The story was essentially about Demeter not wanting to let her Daughter be with the person she loved, not Persephone being tricked and trapped by Hades. Also, it's believed that Persephone came up with some if not all of the harshest punishments in tataros (idk how to spell it) which I think is kinda cool. Sorry if these feels like a lecture, I love your content and by no means want this comment to come across as agressive
Can I please talk to you for a moment so I can tell you everything you need to know about fairy people I'm part fairy please please please let me tell you so that people don't get the wrong conception of the fairies
In Italian, the word „Beldam" was translated as "Megera" and in German as "Vettel". Both words are, like the modern usage of "Beldam", used as insults against older, uglier or unpleasant women.
Megera/Megaera is also one of the three furies in greek mythology. They punish crimes and are associated with vengeance/justice. For example, after Orestes kills his mother he is pursued by the three furies.
Apparently there's evidence for being attracted to eyes that look large, which is the sort of effect belladonna eyedrops would cause. (you have no idea how happy I was to see this referenced because I got to finally share something I learned in an intro to psychology course)
@@lolymop333 yea! It is especially known to happen when a person is aroused, so there might be some knee jerk reaction to seeing dilated eyes (of a person you’re at least somewhat interested in) and the subconscious association of falling in love or having sex together. But since that association isnt a conscious thought and just a resulting feeling, the person might feel especially attracted to the person and not be able to identify or put their finger on why. Which certainly must feel bewitching!!
I remember years ago, someone made a comparison with a Chinese mythical creature that was a half-spider, half-woman. She would lure children away to eat them. I think Coraline's Beldam may have gotten inspiration from multiple sources with similarities.
Belladonna is still used in pharmacology. Combined with phenobarbitol, it's pretty effective at relieving gastrointestinal spasms. I had never heard of such a thing until my doctor gave me a scrip for a stomach problem. I think it's the gothest medicine I have ever been prescribed.
@@VoidKing666 it relaxes smooth muscles, hence makes eyes look bigger or relieves spasms. we use the quote "only the dose makes the poison" very often in pharmacology field.
hi! i'm from romania, and muma pădurii (in translation-forest's old woman/grandma) is basically a spirit that can take a human form. it's told that she's omnipresent in forests and some parents scare their children by saying that if they don't do what they're supposed to do, muma pădurii will come and take them away (not good parenting, but that's besides the point). the similarities between her and the beldam are pretty remarkable. the way they take kids if they don't behave, the fact that they can change their appearance etc. i never heard of that girl of hers, but that's really interesting.
Probably not any different from Santa Claus leaving switches in a bad kid's Christmas stocking. Switches that I -a city - born child whose house was warmed by a gas-burning fireplace and forced air warmed by a gas furnace -thought would be used as a punishment for me rather than as any kind of fuel. Fuel in the generation before me was coal, so even then wood wasn't used.
The Beldam could also be based on the Baba Yaga from Slavic folklore. The Baba Yaga can shape-shift and eats children. The Beldam could also be based off of vampires, that can drain people’s energy and they don’t have reflections in the mirror. In Chapter 6, Coraline was looking at herself in the mirror when she felt something on her shoulder and it was the Other Mother, only Coraline didn’t see her reflection in the mirror.
My school recently had an original play of Coraline, written and directed by one of the drama teachers. There were a couple of adaptations used to allow the play to run smoother on stage with a limited budget, but one that wasn’t necessary but was interesting to me was the final birthday scene for Coraline, where it’s just her and her mother left onstage. Coraline comments on how much she loves her mom and how most kids don’t realize how lucky they are. During the part, Coraline is facing the audience, hugging her mother, while her mother is facing away from the audience. As the mother says her line, “no Coraline, they don’t, they really don’t” she turns around so that she is now facing the audience, though now she has the button eyes of the Beldam.
There's a bit in the movie Coraline that litterally NOBODY talks about!! The third time Coraline goes to the Other Mothers house, when she's crawing through the door there's a shot of the whole room. If you look at the third/biggest window you can see a figure walking past the window. This figure looks like Coraline in the clothes the Other Mother gives her (the ones with the stars) But this "Coraline" walking past the window has button eyes honestly it scared the hell out of me and my cousin when we first saw it xD
You should do something on all of the Studio Ghibli movies if you haven’t already! I’ve seen your video on Howl’s Moving Castle and that was really good! :)
I can easily see Keats' poem being a massive inspiration for Gaiman. He is very educated and well read, often utilizing older literature for retelling. Just look at his novel, The Graveyard Book. The same goes to his usage and description of the Faire Folk. He doesn't always present them with kindness, but instead shows that they are a wild breed that can be both friend and foe.
I love Keats’s poems, especially Ode to a Nightingale, it paints such an eloquent picture of absolute misery. Weird kind of compliment, but it is true.
Interestingly one sideffect of Belladonna you mentioned was blindness. The Beldam in the movie when revealing her spider web had no eyes, and relied on Coraline moving a web string to know where she was.
The funniest thing is that a lot of the accused “witches” back in the day were actually midwives, and blamed for children and women dying in childbirth (when it was really the mostly male church wanting to invade a primarily matriarchal space, but lacking the knowledge passed from mother to daughter, midwife to midwife.). So it makes sense that a witchy character’s title of beldam would be associated with a bewitching beautiful young woman who uses her wiles to manipulate people, and an old bitter crone who uses her knowledge to attain power or control, especially when the younger witch is associated with manipulating and luring men, and the older beldam is associated with luring and manipulating children. It covers the two main blames we associate with witches (that didn’t involve real world issues of the time like crops dying, women owning property or being unmarried, or political issues); manipulating men, and harming children. Just like midwives and their “feminine powers”; the young mother luring a well to do man with her charms and wild eyes to become pregnant and then for the two to be locked into wedlock, and therefore she gets the status and money from it, and the older woman using her knowledge of people’s desires and weaknesses and applying them, leaving her to revel in their pain when their child is replaced by a changeling.
@@castonyoung7514 It tracks actually, most people accused in the witch trials of the early modern period were women caught up in local drama, family troubles, were unmarried or widows, and a noticeable amount owned property that was seized after their death.
i've got a question: when coraline gets into the other world, the other mother prepares food, right? But where does she get it? Is it even real or is it just an illusion like the other world? And if it isn't real food, what is coraline eating? (if you think about it, it's actually creepy) also i love your videos they are making my day better and creepier at the same time ;>
It looks like the Other World residents are made out of inanimate objects by the Other Mother, so maybe she can pull items out of the real world and into her web?
I think she goes after children specifically because they're much more naive and their wariness and fear is much easier to melt with the promise of fun.
I've associated the word Beldam with a witch for at least 15 years, and I can't recall why. I've only read American Gods and Sandman, but at least in those, Gaiman bases the important folklore-ish characters on something specific that he's researched rather than a vague amalgamation of things he's been exposed to throughout his life. I always saw the Beldam as a sort of hag-like Hansel and Gretel thing, but that story with the knight seems just like the sort of thing Gaiman would use as inspiration.
A fairy witch. Neil himself stated Coraline is one of the stories he wrote for his daughter in which little girls fought against evil witches. She hovewer also shows signs of being a fae creature. The stone coraline uses is an Adder stone which is also called a witch stone. As far as I know it can be used to see through magic which would fit both a witch and a fairy. Id go for a fairy witch.
The Beldam always reminded me of a tale about Black Annis, the Leicesetshire Hag, collected by Ruth Tongue. In it, three children are sent out by their wicked stepmother to collect fire wood, but at night fall they are Prey to Black Annis, who they see through their stone with a hole in it. Some say this child-eating ogress is a remnant of the mysterious celtic mother goddess Anu/Danu, others that she was a distortion of Agnes Scott, a nun who was buried right around where legends said "Black Annis' Bower" lay.
One thing I will always remember is that when I first read the book 13ish years ago, I initially misread "Beldam" as "Bedlam". It added a subtle almost Lovecraftian feel to the character until I caught my mistake.
A story about beautiful women luring people is being present in Bulgarian folklore too^^ They are called samodivi(the singular form is samodiva) They are out of this world beauties living in forests and near lakes using their voice and outward beauty to lure people while they are also monsters who kill them A big reason for their creation is being given to hideous and violent deaths too
Always figured sorta like a standard "Dream Demon", like Freddy K, Pennywise, Bill Cipher. When the villain can distort minds or reality they can get mad frightening.
So our local version of a Beldam is a group of forest beings known as the witte wieven (white wives) however back in the day it actually meant witty women/ladies. However thanks to Christian rhetoric their modern interpretation is nothing like what it used to be. Their herbalism was turned into witchcraft, Their elven abilities were turned into shape shifting forrest hags. Their knowledge and prophetic nature were changed into deceit and sadism. The colour white also added a connection to mist and birch trees in a lot of areas, Most commonly some ability to fast travel by turning into mist. But one thing they have in common, Supernatural beauty, the difference is that for one it's a sign of appreciation, For the other it's a threatening accusation.
I'm from the East of the Netherlands, However I know that South Netherlands, West Germany and North Belgium all had this same story, However all versions are heavily corrupted nowadays.
@@BramLastname Oh, I've heard of these before; Dutch fair folk/fairies. I thought it was strange Witte Wieven would be Romanian when it's mostly Dutch. What have those versions been corrupted by these days? Christianity?
@UCbMJuZjMUKJTwFs_gCdqdZQ in Germany, these Ladies in White (Weiße Frauen) are the most common type of fairies. They usually are connected to a specific region, from which they can't leave, and most of their legends talk about how to free them. In most cases, they are also seen as ghosts. The Grimm brothers didn't want to use the french word Fee when re-publishing their folk-tales, so they changed every reference to fairies to "sorceresses" or "wise women", referencing the Witte Wieven.
You kind of mentioned this but not entirely- if I remember correctly from my French courses, Beldame means step mother, because a woman who would marry a widower and take on someone else's kids would be a beautiful woman. And then of course there are many evil step mothers. So beldam being the other mother could relate to step mother.
I am impressed how good you are pronouncing Muma pădurii! She is generally the villain of every romanian bed time story. She is an old woman that lives in the woods and either helps the hero or she tries to prevent the hero to reach his/her goal. "Muma" means mother and "pădurii" means "of forest". She is described as a very old lady in any story. Maybe the closest relative to her is Baba Iaga.
There’s also the Jorogumo (Which is admittedly a Japanese demon so it’s not Western folklore technically but the Other Mother could be inspired by it). It’s a shapeshifting spider demon that lures men into their trap in the shape of a beautiful woman and eats them (or, in one story I read, seems to poison the dude the longer he spends with her which could be read as her draining his lifeforce). Admittedly, I’m far from an expert on Japanese mythology and folklore, but I have read about it and it seems to fit the Other Mother’s whole shapeshifting-spider-who-entices-their-victims-in-order-to-eat-them shtick.
“Beldam” being a synonym for Witch makes a bit of sense, as Coraline DID call The Other Mother a witch near the movie’s climax, although not directly at her.
One thing I've noticed about both Other Mothers is that they seem to be able to completely control the appearance of their realm, from the building they reside in to the gardens beyond. If the Other Mother is indeed part fairy, she might have created this realm herself, which would explain why she can change it's physical appearance.
Exactly. I've thought about how messed up, too, it was that all that time Coraline was exploring her new house, and settling in, the other Mother was watching her, and creating her world to fit Coraline exactly. That is why Coraline doesn't get lured in right away. It's because the Beldam was buying time. 🤪😱
its interesting you mention the deadly nightshade plant, as the plant is known for its toxicity and hallucinogenic properties, also nighthade is related to alot of other plants including chilli, tomatoes, potatoes, egg plants and goji berries.
I've been reading a lot on the sicilian "Donne di Fuora" (Outside Women) and came across one story about them that reminded me of Coraline. These "women" have many different names, like "fimmini i notti" (night women), "Patruni di casa/luoco" (mistresses of the house/place) or even "belle signure" (les belles dames/fair ladies). This story was told by Rosalba Re, in an interview conducted by Michail Sarris in 2003: A story of a very cute girl. Once she was alone at home at a time... Well, at around three, when there's silence, let's say nap-time, her mother wasn't there, and a corner of the house opened, and they called her and she went inside ... When her mother arrived the girl showed her gold coins given to her by thes strangers, these weird people let's say, and her mother says: "tomorrow you knock, and you ask for a lot of them...", And so it was, the girl knocked, the corner in the walls opened again, and she went inside, and she never returned. Then at night the mother always heard this girl who called her, but she never came back.
I think you could really enjoy the book "The labyrinth of the faun" (The book, not the movie!!) It's beautifully written, includes fascinating dark fairy tales and characters and sucks you right in. I think everyone should try it, it's really worth it!
One thing you mention here really reminds me of something from our mythology: for how people would imagine sickness - pox in particular - as an old & ugly & scary woman and they would "taboo" her name and call her "sweet" and "honey" - and nice & good things to get her to show mercy.
I can't tell you enough how much I adore your voice!so mystical and breath, kind of like a medival fortune or story teller.and it's soooooo very soothing to listen to you.
7:50 Belladonna's active compound atropine is also used as a component in nerve agent antidotes. It was given to soldiers in autoinjectors along with valium and pralidoxime chloride during the gulf war in order to combat a potential VX attack.
9:00 The Baldem is something that Baba Yaga is called sometimes due to its translation to "grandmother". So most likely, your finding on it referring to a Forest Witch is something new, caused by that linking?🤔
I have a mini theory that probably isn’t major to the story/plot of The Nightmare Before Christmas but one thing that’s been on my mind is the Mayor, well because he’s my fav character but also may have a secret or something. His hands and main face are a vibrant peach with red orange cheeks which could be Rosacea, his design or just makeup, he does have red nails which could be nail polish. His anxious other side is pale white with blue lips and eyelids, this could be the result of low levels of oxygen in the red blood cells and his pale white skin may be by reduced blood flow and oxygen or also by a decreased number of red blood cells. His hands however are the same peachy colour of his face, could the vividness be fake to be different among the dead or is one side of him suffering a deficiency of oxygen and blood cells? This is just a thought and I wanted to share it with you.
In the Italian translation, the Beldam is called "Megera". In German, she's a "Vettel". Both words are insults against older, uglier or unpleasant women.
If the Other Mother is a kind of human-spider, that means she's the type of creature that literally eats her own young. So she's sincere when she tells Coraline "I love you" - in her mind, "love you" literally means "I want to eat you."
The idea of "beldame" originating in words that mean the opposite of what it does now isn't unusual. A lot of English words now have the opposite meaning of what they once did. A good example is"awful" typically used to describe something revolting but originated with "awe full" something that filled one with "awe" or "wonder" and can be seen in a lot of olderworks On side notes there are many tales of bewitching fay that lure people to their death. From the Japanese kitsune and Korean ghumiho. To the three white sisters in east European myth that lure men into their grove to make love to them before drowning them. There's also one in Irish mythology and atleast one in Welsh. Probably brentish (Cornwall) mythology too
"For thousands of years, peoples of various cultures have regarded fairy rings with a strong sense of curiosity and fear, believing them to be mystical, supernatural places. Folklore tells us that cultures across Europe have traditionally believed that fairy rings are the dwelling place of fairies, elves, witches, and other magical beings- and that in some cases, they may be dangerous to enter. Even though fairy rings were thought to be little realms where fairies dance and play, lore suggested that if a human interrupted the fun, the cost could be deadly serious." Sourced from an article by Ariel Kusby. In the beginning of the movie, Coraline enters into one of these circles at the well. While through out the story this circle stays largely unaltered, as best I can tell Coraline is the only one who truly enters into it. Towards the end, it appeared that a large bit of it had been altered due to the opening of the well. Looking into these may further help you connect some dots. Good ole European fokelore.
I saw a short earlier, saying this: In folklore, or folktales, on Halloween, children used to dare eachother to knock on a beldams door. The beldam was supposed to lure you in with sweets, and then eat the children. Similar to Hansel and Gretel, or Coraline. The beldam was referred to as a bug like creature, as if a spider in human form.
(Coraline opens the door and lights a candle and heads down the dark passageway. The cat follows her.) Cat: You know you’re walking right into her trap. Coraline: I have to go back. They are my parents. Cat: Challenge her then. She may not play fair, but she won’t refuse. She’s got a thing for games. Coraline: Hmmm, okay. (The door to the other world opens, a wind blows out the candle and the cat vanishes in the dark. Mel: Coraline? Coraline: Mom? (There, framed in the open door, back-lit in blue, Coraline's REAL MOTHER, with neck brace and dressed in her shopping clothes, calls.) Mel: Coraline! You came back for us! Coraline: Mom! (Coraline runs forward and out the door and hugs Mel eagerly.) Mel: Darling… (voice shifts) Why would you run away from me? (Coraline sees Mel’s hand grow longer. Alarmed, Coraline pushes away and sees Mel was actually the Beldam) Coraline: (alerted) Where are my parents? Beldam: Gosh, I have no idea where your old parents are. Perhaps they’ve grown bored of you and run away to France. Coraline: They weren’t bored of me. You stole them! (Unbeknownst to Coraline, the Other Father, now a foot shorter than before, his sagging face a pale pumpkin color, his hair vines, comes up behind Coraline.) Beldam: Now don’t be difficult, Coraline. Have a seat, won’t you?😈 (The Other Father, gurgling, herds Coraline onto the walking bug chair, restraining her. The Beldam stands by the door and claps her hands. A huge rat comes running out of the tunnel with the key. The Beldam takes the key from the rat, locks the door and, while the armoire bug stands guard, swallows the key.) Coraline: Why don’t you have your own key? Other Father: (disoriented) Only one key. (The Beldam yanks a vine growing from the Other Father’s ear, shutting his mouth.) Beldam: SHHH!!!! The garden squash needs some tending, don’t you think, pumpkin? (The Beldam then drags the Other Father away from the parlor.) Other Father: Squish, squash, pumpkin sauce… (Coraline now fears that her fate was now sealed, until she hears the sound of a finger rubbing against glass. Coraline suddenly recognizes it as her parents.) Coraline: (loud whisper) Mom, Dad, where’d she hide you? (A bell started ringing.) Beldam: Breakfast time.
Coraline: Who’s there? Ghosts: Hush and shush, for the Beldam might be listening. Coraline: You… you mean the Other Mother? (Pulls the sheets, revealing the ghost children) Who are you? Ghost Boy: Don’t remember our names, but I remember my true mommy. Coraline: Why are you all here? Ghosts: The Beldam. Sweet Ghost Girl: She spied on our lives, through the little doll’s eyes. Ghost Boy: And saw that we weren’t happy. Tall Ghost Girl: So she lured us away with treasures and treats… Sweet Ghost Girl: And games to play. Ghost Boy: Gave all that we asked… Sweet Ghost Girl: Yet we still wanted more… Tall Ghost Girl: So we let her sew the buttons. Ghost Boy: She said she loved us. Tall Ghost Girl: But she locked us here… Ghosts: And ate up our lives. Coraline: Well… she can’t keep me in the dark forever. Not if wants to win my life. Beating her is my only chance. Sweet Ghost Girl: Perhaps, if you do win your escape, you could find our eyes. Coraline: Has she taken those too? Sweet Ghost Girl: Yes, miss. And hidden them. Ghost Boy: Find our eyes, mistress, and our souls will be free. Coraline: I… I’ll try. (Coraline gets pulled out of the mirror prison by a masked figure. She beats him up and pulls off the mask, revealing it to be the Other Wybie, with his mouth stitched into a painful, ear to ear smile) Coraline: Wybie?! (Sits Other Wybie up) Did she do this to you? (Unstiches his painfully-huge grin) I hope that feels bet- Other Wybie: Shhh! (Other Wybie leads Coraline into the parlor and pushed the big armoire bug guarding the door out of the way. It crashes to the floor) Beldam: (upstairs) Coraline? Is that you? Coraline: (grabbing Other Wybie) Let’s go! (Coraline opens the door. The dark passageway, now filled with spider webs and the shoes, hats, and toys of other kids who tried to escape) Beldam: (upstairs) Coraline! Coraline: (tugging Other Wybie) Come on, she’ll hurt you again! (Other Wybie shakes his head in terror then pulls off his glove to reveal a hand of sawdust. He blows his fingers away.) (High heels click from the stairs; she's ALMOST THERE!) Beldam: Coraline? How dare you disobey your mother! (Other Wybie shoves Coraline into the passageway and shuts the door on her) Beldam: Coraline! (Coraline, now fearing for her life, bolts down the dark passageway until she made it back to her world.) (Coraline then closes the door and locks it.)
I think that the connection is actually just inspiration. And beldam does match the other mother so it makes sense for the victims to call the other mother that. They are also very old, so in their time beldam could have been pretty common. I did originally think of more opinions but I forgot them.
I wonder if all three versions of Beldam could be a hint at an older story. Maybe the fairy Maiden who used Belladonna to attract men lost her eyesight to the plant, leaving her without a method of trapping adult men. So over time she sewed buttons onto her eyes both to allow her to see and to make herself appear more doll like so as to attract children instead. Now she had to attract more children because children have less life-force than adults, using dolls to entrance them and lure them to her lair. Also, what if the Romanian tale is part of the same story? Maybe the living tunnel in which the beldame lives is the forest spirit, the much older and more dangerous thing that sleeps, and the land on which the house is built was once a forest. Back in the day, when a forest was cleared to make lumber it wasn't uncommon to build the house out of lumber from the trees that grew there. So maybe it's like a Narnian wardrobe type thing where because certain wood was magic now the house is too and leads to another realm within the forest spirit that now sleeps because it has no forest to feed it? And the beldam only feasts on children that live in the house so.... revenge on the original people who destroyed the forest and built the house? Just a few thoughts. Excellent video!
I have a question, why did the Other Mother let Coraline go the first 2 times? Couldn't she have just kept her there by force from the start? Why the pretense?
I think the Beldam is some sort of witch demon because the Beldam uses magic like a witch, but makes kids hearts desires come true and feeds on human souls like a demon. But that is just my idea 🤔
If you look at the kids clothes the beldam couldn’t have been there for longer than like 200 years. Meaning there was more before her and will be more after her. What the cat says about the beldam. Plus when the pink palace was made we can figure out she owned it originally and somehow got to the other world if we look at the garden outline which looks like both coraline and the beldam (in her true form aka the spider form).
A fun little fact, before Coraline my first encounter with the Beldam story, when I was too young to realize it, was from the Cartoon Network series Samurai Jack. The episode Four Seasons of Death contained four short segments all themed around the four seasons. The fourth and final segment, Spring, was a near retelling of the story you detailed here. Well, except the hero got away alive and well.
Ooh. :3 That is literally like one of the biggest mysteries that seems to need to be answered in Coraline, so I'm glad someone like you is finally trying to address that and see what you can find, ha ha. XD Hmm... Well, considering her tactics, in a personality sense, she's literally a sociopath. :p Fake kindness and promises, manipulating people with her lies, only to trap them in... an imaginary world and suck out their souls? o.O You could also say she's a female child predator, but yeah, sigh. :p But in a more... fantastical sense, yeah, what is she? :p She kind of seems like some type of "Emotion/Despair Eater", like a, erm... for lack of better examples, a Dementor from Harry Potter, or something. :p But... much different too. :? For all we know, she isn't entirely malicious without reason even though she also at the same time seems to like what she does, at least against Coraline, but it might just be in her nature like a vampire to feed off of people... But how, and why? Like, she'd probably die if she didn't, right? Like, I think she hysterically screamed at Coraline at the end of the film that she'd die without her, but who knows if that's another lie to take pity on her despite how far she's come in being a clear villain and a horrible person, or if she means it this time... she'd literally die if she doesn't kill people or trap them. :p And not just that, but in Coraline at least, the term for what she is literally called a Beldam, which... doesn't seem to be a common folklore name like the aforementioned vampire. :p And like, I wonder if it's made up for the book/movie or actual thing, name change or not, hmm...
So in the end, she really is just some giant metaphor? :p Hmm... still pretty interesting though, I guess. :? Maybe even better for being original, but I was hoping for something more like Hilda. :p At least... I think at least one of the creatures in that is actually old but obscure...
Oh yeah! As far as spider ladies other than children eating witches like the one in Hansel and Gretel, that's... always been a thing, but mixing them together among other possible things... that's unique to me. :?
there's a theory that the Beldam and Pennywise from IT are the same species. both a cosmic horror that feeds off a certain emotion Beldam with love and Pennywise with fear. plus the two have similarities in terms of spider forms and other factors.
@@drswag0076 it's just that both beings are very Lovecraftian to me. But I think the creature that is really similar the Beldam, is the main antagonist of The Ocean at the end of the Lane by Neil Gaiman. They both have a pocket of existence within our world but it's hidden in plain sight(a la magical realism) and they both have a desire to control people for their(the controlled) own "good". It's a novella so it's a quick read. Highly recommend it.
2:25 I love how when you say "for different motives" there's a fire in the background referencing the Salem witch trials, a very grim, macabre reminder of humanity's past.
Please listen because I mean this when I say it... *YOU. ARE. COMPLETELY. UNDERRATED.* Your videos are top-quality, and the lovely animation art-style and your soothing voice makes it so pleasing to watch. I love how in-depth you look into the history of fairy-tales and legends, and I feel like not enough people appreciate the history of story-telling. Thank you so much for creating your channel
In some other videos, what the Other Mother is called varies. Some call her the Beldam and some call her Bedlam. Beldam - An old Woman Bedlam - A Scene of Uproar and Confusion
In Japan, there’s a mythical creature known as a “kitsune”, translated, it means “fox”. These creatures are tricksters and will often turn into beautiful women to lure travelers off the path. Depending on how they were treated, they could either be benevolent or they could be mischievously antagonistic. Don’t think this was an inspiration for Coraline, but it is another example of beauty being deceptive.
BELLADONNA -n. In Italian a beautiful lady; in English a deadly poison. A striking example of the essential identity of the two tongues. Devil's Dictionary - by Ambrose Bierce
Hey, muma padurii is in fact real, its mainly a word of mouth thing told by old world russians/romanians. My dad dated the daughter of a finnish diplomat when i was growing up so she took me to this cabin in Tahoe with a bunch of European people every Year around mid December. I grew up hearing about them along with so many others. You can't really find them online, only in reaaaaaaalllllyyyyy old books.
Is there any info on the repeated imagery of horns? There's photos of horns in Mr. Bo's room, and two sets of horns in the dining room- one pair are curled and attached to a skull but the long straight horns hold no skull- and sit on the Beldam's side
I feel like the ghost children only called her the Beldam because just like Coraline, they didn't know who or what she was until she showed them her true colors and form which is an old, ugly, spider woman or witch. They were also from an older time maybe late 19th century to early 20th century so their vocabulary would be a lot different from today's. And I'm not ignoring the fact Coraline may know what Beldam means but I assume she doesn't because it's not a word that's commonly used nowadays. I don't know maybe it is but I don't use it. But that's just a thought.
I pulled up this on my search: The term “Beldam” has its roots in Eastern European folklore. It is an archaic word for a kind of witch. The Beldam is often portrayed as a woman who lures children into her lair only to feast upon their flesh and souls. In some stories, she can shapeshift and create doppelgängers to deceive her victims. The Beldam’s true form is that of a giant spider, and she is known for her malevolence and eerie presence.
Thank you so much for the in-depth explanation of what a beldam is. The narrator seems to be an expert at it. Could she be a beldam herself posing as a soft-spoken helpful fairy-like female?!?!
Check out my Coraline Other Mother ASMR on my second channel! th-cam.com/video/T7Rk_EkBc0g/w-d-xo.html
Regarding Romanian folklore stories, Muma Pădurii is indeed an evil spirit, but her daughter, although truly enchanting, has a good heart. If you want to learn more about them, you should read Făt-Frumos din Lacrimă, which loosely translates to Prince Charming from a tear by Mihai Eminescu. Also, the daughter has indeed powers, but she doesn’t use them unless for bringing the hero back to life.
Fun Fact most of those "results" google gives you are BS.
I was wondering if you would consider doing a video on the original tale of Persephone and Hades, given in the original she went to the underworld of her own accord and was intent on staying there, the main reason it's perceived as her being held against her will is because Demeter kicked up a fuss about it, thus why the pomegranate only had 6 seeds when it would normally have hundreds. The story was essentially about Demeter not wanting to let her Daughter be with the person she loved, not Persephone being tricked and trapped by Hades. Also, it's believed that Persephone came up with some if not all of the harshest punishments in tataros (idk how to spell it) which I think is kinda cool. Sorry if these feels like a lecture, I love your content and by no means want this comment to come across as agressive
I think I love you!
Can I please talk to you for a moment so I can tell you everything you need to know about fairy people I'm part fairy please please please let me tell you so that people don't get the wrong conception of the fairies
In Italian, the word „Beldam" was translated as "Megera" and in German as "Vettel". Both words are, like the modern usage of "Beldam", used as insults against older, uglier or unpleasant women.
That just sounds like another name for witch or hag then. :?
Or crone, that's another good one. XD
@@indigowendigo8165 yes
I will remember those for when dealing with anyone who matches the description.
Megera/Megaera is also one of the three furies in greek mythology. They punish crimes and are associated with vengeance/justice. For example, after Orestes kills his mother he is pursued by the three furies.
Apparently there's evidence for being attracted to eyes that look large, which is the sort of effect belladonna eyedrops would cause. (you have no idea how happy I was to see this referenced because I got to finally share something I learned in an intro to psychology course)
Honestly, that kinda makes sense since people's pupils dilate when looking at someone they love due to hormones.
@@lolymop333 yea! It is especially known to happen when a person is aroused, so there might be some knee jerk reaction to seeing dilated eyes (of a person you’re at least somewhat interested in) and the subconscious association of falling in love or having sex together. But since that association isnt a conscious thought and just a resulting feeling, the person might feel especially attracted to the person and not be able to identify or put their finger on why. Which certainly must feel bewitching!!
Indeed. There is a reason Disney princess always have massive eyes.
*anime*
You are right. Belladonna enlarges the pupils. Now let's think about those big black buttons for eyes. Aren't they just massively dilated pupils?
I remember years ago, someone made a comparison with a Chinese mythical creature that was a half-spider, half-woman. She would lure children away to eat them. I think Coraline's Beldam may have gotten inspiration from multiple sources with similarities.
*Japanese, her name was Jogurumo (I hope I wroted it right)
@@klsi8129 Jorogumo!
@@schmacker101 thanks
@@klsi8129 thank you
i do recognize the jogurumu from japanese folklore, i havent heard of her specifically taking children though
Belladonna is still used in pharmacology. Combined with phenobarbitol, it's pretty effective at relieving gastrointestinal spasms. I had never heard of such a thing until my doctor gave me a scrip for a stomach problem. I think it's the gothest medicine I have ever been prescribed.
Wow! Goth medicine for sure!
Isn’t it poisonous?
@@abitfrank Hi! 😄
I have a Prescription for Stomach upset made from Belladonna as well it's q great Medicine!
@@VoidKing666 it relaxes smooth muscles, hence makes eyes look bigger or relieves spasms. we use the quote "only the dose makes the poison" very often in pharmacology field.
hi! i'm from romania, and muma pădurii (in translation-forest's old woman/grandma) is basically a spirit that can take a human form. it's told that she's omnipresent in forests and some parents scare their children by saying that if they don't do what they're supposed to do, muma pădurii will come and take them away (not good parenting, but that's besides the point). the similarities between her and the beldam are pretty remarkable. the way they take kids if they don't behave, the fact that they can change their appearance etc. i never heard of that girl of hers, but that's really interesting.
Probably not any different from Santa Claus leaving switches in a bad kid's Christmas stocking. Switches that I -a city - born child whose house was warmed by a gas-burning fireplace and forced air warmed by a gas furnace -thought would be used as a punishment for me rather than as any kind of fuel.
Fuel in the generation before me was coal, so even then wood wasn't used.
I hate when people say telling children fairy tales to keep them safe is bad parenting. So dumb.
Și eu sunt din România
The Beldam could also be based on the Baba Yaga from Slavic folklore. The Baba Yaga can shape-shift and eats children. The Beldam could also be based off of vampires, that can drain people’s energy and they don’t have reflections in the mirror. In Chapter 6, Coraline was looking at herself in the mirror when she felt something on her shoulder and it was the Other Mother, only Coraline didn’t see her reflection in the mirror.
My school recently had an original play of Coraline, written and directed by one of the drama teachers. There were a couple of adaptations used to allow the play to run smoother on stage with a limited budget, but one that wasn’t necessary but was interesting to me was the final birthday scene for Coraline, where it’s just her and her mother left onstage. Coraline comments on how much she loves her mom and how most kids don’t realize how lucky they are. During the part, Coraline is facing the audience, hugging her mother, while her mother is facing away from the audience. As the mother says her line, “no Coraline, they don’t, they really don’t” she turns around so that she is now facing the audience, though now she has the button eyes of the Beldam.
yoo wait was that a cliffhanger?! damn
this is awesome!!!
There's a bit in the movie Coraline that litterally NOBODY talks about!!
The third time Coraline goes to the Other Mothers house, when she's crawing through the door there's a shot of the whole room. If you look at the third/biggest window you can see a figure walking past the window. This figure looks like Coraline in the clothes the Other Mother gives her (the ones with the stars) But this "Coraline" walking past the window has button eyes
honestly it scared the hell out of me and my cousin when we first saw it xD
Okay I do not remeber THAT scene
@Crazy Kitten bitch wtf u on abt where was this scene 😭
I'm scared 😭
WHAT- I NEED TO REWATCH THE MOVIE AGAIN
Tell us the minuting!
You should do something on all of the Studio Ghibli movies if you haven’t already! I’ve seen your video on Howl’s Moving Castle and that was really good! :)
Agreed
Yes
@@A.void_me If we get enough likes maybe she’ll do it!! 😂🖤🤓
Especially if she talks about the old legends/stories that inspired each Ghibli movie
@@riakun I know right! There’s so much cool folklore that inspired the movies! It’s perfect for the deep dives she usually does!
I can easily see Keats' poem being a massive inspiration for Gaiman. He is very educated and well read, often utilizing older literature for retelling. Just look at his novel, The Graveyard Book. The same goes to his usage and description of the Faire Folk. He doesn't always present them with kindness, but instead shows that they are a wild breed that can be both friend and foe.
I love Keats’s poems, especially Ode to a Nightingale, it paints such an eloquent picture of absolute misery. Weird kind of compliment, but it is true.
Interestingly one sideffect of Belladonna you mentioned was blindness. The Beldam in the movie when revealing her spider web had no eyes, and relied on Coraline moving a web string to know where she was.
The funniest thing is that a lot of the accused “witches” back in the day were actually midwives, and blamed for children and women dying in childbirth (when it was really the mostly male church wanting to invade a primarily matriarchal space, but lacking the knowledge passed from mother to daughter, midwife to midwife.). So it makes sense that a witchy character’s title of beldam would be associated with a bewitching beautiful young woman who uses her wiles to manipulate people, and an old bitter crone who uses her knowledge to attain power or control, especially when the younger witch is associated with manipulating and luring men, and the older beldam is associated with luring and manipulating children. It covers the two main blames we associate with witches (that didn’t involve real world issues of the time like crops dying, women owning property or being unmarried, or political issues); manipulating men, and harming children. Just like midwives and their “feminine powers”; the young mother luring a well to do man with her charms and wild eyes to become pregnant and then for the two to be locked into wedlock, and therefore she gets the status and money from it, and the older woman using her knowledge of people’s desires and weaknesses and applying them, leaving her to revel in their pain when their child is replaced by a changeling.
Sorry if I sounded rude, I guess I was just trying to put "I doubt what you are implying" nicely, but in the end didn't come out any better.
@@castonyoung7514 It tracks actually, most people accused in the witch trials of the early modern period were women caught up in local drama, family troubles, were unmarried or widows, and a noticeable amount owned property that was seized after their death.
The other mother is one of the scariest cartoon characters of all time. Please do a video on the cat and the three children
They had an idea to create a live action version of Coraline... Imagine the other mother 🤯😵
@@sydsadventures oh my god if that happens my life will be complete
@@sydsadventures imagine how adorable would live action mice be❤🐭
@@sydsadventures The part where the other mother is growing in live action would be horrifying!!!
@@shadowwolf9467 ikr lol, it would also end up an 18 I reckon
i've got a question: when coraline gets into the other world, the other mother prepares food, right? But where does she get it? Is it even real or is it just an illusion like the other world? And if it isn't real food, what is coraline eating? (if you think about it, it's actually creepy) also i love your videos they are making my day better and creepier at the same time ;>
It looks like the Other World residents are made out of inanimate objects by the Other Mother, so maybe she can pull items out of the real world and into her web?
Bugs, probably.
@@thegayghost872 yeah that is also my theory, or maybe the rats are bringing her the food out of the real world?
@@Gleowyn could also be (poor coraline) :>
That’s a good point. I hadn’t thought about that yet😳
I think she goes after children specifically because they're much more naive and their wariness and fear is much easier to melt with the promise of fun.
Plus they are innocent
The prey is sweeter to her palate
@@preciousharris4093as a elementary teacher, that is actually far from The truth. All children aint innocent.
@@oliveromarsson4189Ofc not but they are still children and can be manipulated and ate 😂
Tbh I’ve always viewed the Beldam as partially inspired off of it, which does something similar.Both also have spider related motifs to them.
I've associated the word Beldam with a witch for at least 15 years, and I can't recall why. I've only read American Gods and Sandman, but at least in those, Gaiman bases the important folklore-ish characters on something specific that he's researched rather than a vague amalgamation of things he's been exposed to throughout his life. I always saw the Beldam as a sort of hag-like Hansel and Gretel thing, but that story with the knight seems just like the sort of thing Gaiman would use as inspiration.
A fairy witch. Neil himself stated Coraline is one of the stories he wrote for his daughter in which little girls fought against evil witches. She hovewer also shows signs of being a fae creature. The stone coraline uses is an Adder stone which is also called a witch stone. As far as I know it can be used to see through magic which would fit both a witch and a fairy. Id go for a fairy witch.
The Beldam always reminded me of a tale about Black Annis, the Leicesetshire Hag, collected by Ruth Tongue. In it, three children are sent out by their wicked stepmother to collect fire wood, but at night fall they are Prey to Black Annis, who they see through their stone with a hole in it.
Some say this child-eating ogress is a remnant of the mysterious celtic mother goddess Anu/Danu, others that she was a distortion of Agnes Scott, a nun who was buried right around where legends said "Black Annis' Bower" lay.
One thing I will always remember is that when I first read the book 13ish years ago, I initially misread "Beldam" as "Bedlam". It added a subtle almost Lovecraftian feel to the character until I caught my mistake.
I think the fact that you can't pinpoint her is what would make her scary. We humans fear the unknown
A story about beautiful women luring people is being present in Bulgarian folklore too^^
They are called samodivi(the singular form is samodiva)
They are out of this world beauties living in forests and near lakes using their voice and outward beauty to lure people while they are also monsters who kill them
A big reason for their creation is being given to hideous and violent deaths too
Always figured sorta like a standard "Dream Demon", like Freddy K, Pennywise, Bill Cipher.
When the villain can distort minds or reality they can get mad frightening.
So our local version of a Beldam is a group of forest beings known as the witte wieven (white wives) however back in the day it actually meant witty women/ladies.
However thanks to Christian rhetoric their modern interpretation is nothing like what it used to be.
Their herbalism was turned into witchcraft,
Their elven abilities were turned into shape shifting forrest hags.
Their knowledge and prophetic nature were changed into deceit and sadism.
The colour white also added a connection to mist and birch trees in a lot of areas,
Most commonly some ability to fast travel by turning into mist.
But one thing they have in common,
Supernatural beauty, the difference is that for one it's a sign of appreciation,
For the other it's a threatening accusation.
Which local country are you from where this beldam is described?
I'm from the East of the Netherlands,
However I know that South Netherlands, West Germany and North Belgium all had this same story,
However all versions are heavily corrupted nowadays.
@@cathleenmoyle1476 forgot to tag you but I did reply
@@BramLastname Oh, I've heard of these before; Dutch fair folk/fairies. I thought it was strange Witte Wieven would be Romanian when it's mostly Dutch.
What have those versions been corrupted by these days? Christianity?
@UCbMJuZjMUKJTwFs_gCdqdZQ in Germany, these Ladies in White (Weiße Frauen) are the most common type of fairies. They usually are connected to a specific region, from which they can't leave, and most of their legends talk about how to free them. In most cases, they are also seen as ghosts.
The Grimm brothers didn't want to use the french word Fee when re-publishing their folk-tales, so they changed every reference to fairies to "sorceresses" or "wise women", referencing the Witte Wieven.
You kind of mentioned this but not entirely- if I remember correctly from my French courses, Beldame means step mother, because a woman who would marry a widower and take on someone else's kids would be a beautiful woman. And then of course there are many evil step mothers. So beldam being the other mother could relate to step mother.
I am impressed how good you are pronouncing Muma pădurii! She is generally the villain of every romanian bed time story. She is an old woman that lives in the woods and either helps the hero or she tries to prevent the hero to reach his/her goal. "Muma" means mother and "pădurii" means "of forest". She is described as a very old lady in any story. Maybe the closest relative to her is Baba Iaga.
There’s also the Jorogumo (Which is admittedly a Japanese demon so it’s not Western folklore technically but the Other Mother could be inspired by it). It’s a shapeshifting spider demon that lures men into their trap in the shape of a beautiful woman and eats them (or, in one story I read, seems to poison the dude the longer he spends with her which could be read as her draining his lifeforce). Admittedly, I’m far from an expert on Japanese mythology and folklore, but I have read about it and it seems to fit the Other Mother’s whole shapeshifting-spider-who-entices-their-victims-in-order-to-eat-them shtick.
“Beldam” being a synonym for Witch makes a bit of sense, as Coraline DID call The Other Mother a witch near the movie’s climax, although not directly at her.
One thing I've noticed about both Other Mothers is that they seem to be able to completely control the appearance of their realm, from the building they reside in to the gardens beyond. If the Other Mother is indeed part fairy, she might have created this realm herself, which would explain why she can change it's physical appearance.
Exactly. I've thought about how messed up, too, it was that all that time Coraline was exploring her new house, and settling in, the other Mother was watching her, and creating her world to fit Coraline exactly. That is why Coraline doesn't get lured in right away. It's because the Beldam was buying time. 🤪😱
its interesting you mention the deadly nightshade plant, as the plant is known for its toxicity and hallucinogenic properties, also nighthade is related to alot of other plants including chilli, tomatoes, potatoes, egg plants and goji berries.
Weren’t potatoes and tomatoes poisonous at one point in history too?
I've been reading a lot on the sicilian "Donne di Fuora" (Outside Women) and came across one story about them that reminded me of Coraline. These "women" have many different names, like "fimmini i notti" (night women), "Patruni di casa/luoco" (mistresses of the house/place) or even "belle signure" (les belles dames/fair ladies). This story was told by Rosalba Re, in an interview conducted by Michail Sarris in 2003:
A story of a very cute girl. Once she was alone at home at a time... Well, at around three, when there's silence, let's say nap-time, her mother wasn't there, and a corner of the house opened, and they called her and she went inside ...
When her mother arrived the girl showed her gold coins given to her by thes strangers, these weird people let's say, and her mother says: "tomorrow you knock, and you ask for a lot of them...", And so it was, the girl knocked, the corner in the walls opened again, and she went inside, and she never returned. Then at night the mother always heard this girl who called her, but she never came back.
I think you could really enjoy the book "The labyrinth of the faun" (The book, not the movie!!)
It's beautifully written, includes fascinating dark fairy tales and characters and sucks you right in. I think everyone should try it, it's really worth it!
One thing you mention here really reminds me of something from our mythology: for how people would imagine sickness - pox in particular - as an old & ugly & scary woman and they would "taboo" her name and call her "sweet" and "honey" - and nice & good things to get her to show mercy.
Yes,she gave me the wrong buttons,I wanted a light emerald green but got grey blue buttons instead lol
I can't tell you enough how much I adore your voice!so mystical and breath, kind of like a medival fortune or story teller.and it's soooooo very soothing to listen to you.
Lol "self-administered poison" crazy the things we've done to ourselves throughout history.
In all fairness people still self administer poisons like nicotine and alchohol
Not so crazy. I ingest rat poison on a daily basis. Under medical advice.
There is also the old phrase "you're cute as a button" and "button eyes." Just throwing that into the universe.
Great video! I always wondered why she was the Beldam but never quite found the time to dig into the origins or possible root in folklore.
7:50 Belladonna's active compound atropine is also used as a component in nerve agent antidotes. It was given to soldiers in autoinjectors along with valium and pralidoxime chloride during the gulf war in order to combat a potential VX attack.
9:00 The Baldem is something that Baba Yaga is called sometimes due to its translation to "grandmother". So most likely, your finding on it referring to a Forest Witch is something new, caused by that linking?🤔
I have a mini theory that probably isn’t major to the story/plot of The Nightmare Before Christmas but one thing that’s been on my mind is the Mayor, well because he’s my fav character but also may have a secret or something.
His hands and main face are a vibrant peach with red orange cheeks which could be Rosacea, his design or just makeup, he does have red nails which could be nail polish.
His anxious other side is pale white with blue lips and eyelids, this could be the result of low levels of oxygen in the red blood cells and his pale white skin may be by reduced blood flow and oxygen or also by a decreased number of red blood cells.
His hands however are the same peachy colour of his face, could the vividness be fake to be different among the dead or is one side of him suffering a deficiency of oxygen and blood cells?
This is just a thought and I wanted to share it with you.
I'm from Brazil, and the first time I saw Coraline it was dubbed in pt-br. I thought they were saying "Bela Dama", which means "pretty lady".
In the Italian translation, the Beldam is called "Megera". In German, she's a "Vettel". Both words are insults against older, uglier or unpleasant women.
If the Other Mother is a kind of human-spider, that means she's the type of creature that literally eats her own young. So she's sincere when she tells Coraline "I love you" - in her mind, "love you" literally means "I want to eat you."
Has anyone else noticed that even though her hands are made of metal needles, she sews with a bone needle?
The Beldam is probably the perfect presentation of what a True Fae would be like in Changeling: The Lost.
"bella donna, does it sound familiar?"
me, an Italian: why yes, yes it does
*Ciao! Anch'io sono italiana!!! :D*
I do love it when authors use obscure folklore
Is anybody else satisfied but this girl's voice?
The idea of "beldame" originating in words that mean the opposite of what it does now isn't unusual. A lot of English words now have the opposite meaning of what they once did. A good example is"awful" typically used to describe something revolting but originated with "awe full" something that filled one with "awe" or "wonder" and can be seen in a lot of olderworks
On side notes there are many tales of bewitching fay that lure people to their death. From the Japanese kitsune and Korean ghumiho. To the three white sisters in east European myth that lure men into their grove to make love to them before drowning them. There's also one in Irish mythology and atleast one in Welsh. Probably brentish (Cornwall) mythology too
I've only just started this video but it is great so far!
She's great right! I can't wait to meet a girl like her... she Is perfect!
Your voice is overwhelmingly calming, good videos
"For thousands of years, peoples of various cultures have regarded fairy rings with a strong sense of curiosity and fear, believing them to be mystical, supernatural places. Folklore tells us that cultures across Europe have traditionally believed that fairy rings are the dwelling place of fairies, elves, witches, and other magical beings- and that in some cases, they may be dangerous to enter. Even though fairy rings were thought to be little realms where fairies dance and play, lore suggested that if a human interrupted the fun, the cost could be deadly serious." Sourced from an article by Ariel Kusby.
In the beginning of the movie, Coraline enters into one of these circles at the well. While through out the story this circle stays largely unaltered, as best I can tell Coraline is the only one who truly enters into it. Towards the end, it appeared that a large bit of it had been altered due to the opening of the well.
Looking into these may further help you connect some dots. Good ole European fokelore.
From deference to one's grandma to what could be seen as scornful sarcasm.
I love how deep you dive into your subject matter. Your content keeps getting better and better
I saw a short earlier, saying this:
In folklore, or folktales, on Halloween, children used to dare eachother to knock on a beldams door. The beldam was supposed to lure you in with sweets, and then eat the children. Similar to Hansel and Gretel, or Coraline. The beldam was referred to as a bug like creature, as if a spider in human form.
(Coraline opens the door and lights a candle and heads down the dark passageway. The cat follows her.)
Cat: You know you’re walking right into her trap.
Coraline: I have to go back. They are my parents.
Cat: Challenge her then. She may not play fair, but she won’t refuse. She’s got a thing for games.
Coraline: Hmmm, okay.
(The door to the other world opens, a wind blows out the candle and the cat vanishes in the dark.
Mel: Coraline?
Coraline: Mom?
(There, framed in the open door, back-lit in blue, Coraline's REAL MOTHER, with neck brace and dressed in her shopping clothes, calls.)
Mel: Coraline! You came back for us!
Coraline: Mom!
(Coraline runs forward and out the door and hugs Mel eagerly.)
Mel: Darling… (voice shifts) Why would you run away from me?
(Coraline sees Mel’s hand grow longer. Alarmed, Coraline pushes away and sees Mel was actually the Beldam)
Coraline: (alerted) Where are my parents?
Beldam: Gosh, I have no idea where your old parents are. Perhaps they’ve grown bored of you and run away to France.
Coraline: They weren’t bored of me. You stole them!
(Unbeknownst to Coraline, the Other Father, now a foot shorter than before, his sagging face a pale pumpkin color, his hair vines, comes up behind Coraline.)
Beldam: Now don’t be difficult, Coraline. Have a seat, won’t you?😈
(The Other Father, gurgling, herds Coraline onto the walking bug chair, restraining her. The Beldam stands by the door and claps her hands. A huge rat comes running out of the tunnel with the key. The Beldam takes the key from the rat, locks the door and, while the armoire bug stands guard, swallows the key.)
Coraline: Why don’t you have your own key?
Other Father: (disoriented) Only one key.
(The Beldam yanks a vine growing from the Other Father’s ear, shutting his mouth.)
Beldam: SHHH!!!! The garden squash needs some tending, don’t you think, pumpkin?
(The Beldam then drags the Other Father away from the parlor.)
Other Father: Squish, squash, pumpkin sauce…
(Coraline now fears that her fate was now sealed, until she hears the sound of a finger rubbing against glass. Coraline suddenly recognizes it as her parents.)
Coraline: (loud whisper) Mom, Dad, where’d she hide you?
(A bell started ringing.)
Beldam: Breakfast time.
Coraline: Who’s there?
Ghosts: Hush and shush, for the Beldam might be listening.
Coraline: You… you mean the Other Mother? (Pulls the sheets, revealing the ghost children) Who are you?
Ghost Boy: Don’t remember our names, but I remember my true mommy.
Coraline: Why are you all here?
Ghosts: The Beldam.
Sweet Ghost Girl: She spied on our lives, through the little doll’s eyes.
Ghost Boy: And saw that we weren’t happy.
Tall Ghost Girl: So she lured us away with treasures and treats…
Sweet Ghost Girl: And games to play.
Ghost Boy: Gave all that we asked…
Sweet Ghost Girl: Yet we still wanted more…
Tall Ghost Girl: So we let her sew the buttons.
Ghost Boy: She said she loved us.
Tall Ghost Girl: But she locked us here…
Ghosts: And ate up our lives.
Coraline: Well… she can’t keep me in the dark forever. Not if wants to win my life. Beating her is my only chance.
Sweet Ghost Girl: Perhaps, if you do win your escape, you could find our eyes.
Coraline: Has she taken those too?
Sweet Ghost Girl: Yes, miss. And hidden them.
Ghost Boy: Find our eyes, mistress, and our souls will be free.
Coraline: I… I’ll try.
(Coraline gets pulled out of the mirror prison by a masked figure. She beats him up and pulls off the mask, revealing it to be the Other Wybie, with his mouth stitched into a painful, ear to ear smile)
Coraline: Wybie?! (Sits Other Wybie up) Did she do this to you? (Unstiches his painfully-huge grin) I hope that feels bet-
Other Wybie: Shhh!
(Other Wybie leads Coraline into the parlor and pushed the big armoire bug guarding the door out of the way. It crashes to the floor)
Beldam: (upstairs) Coraline? Is that you?
Coraline: (grabbing Other Wybie) Let’s go!
(Coraline opens the door. The dark passageway, now filled with spider webs and the shoes, hats, and toys of other kids who tried to escape)
Beldam: (upstairs) Coraline!
Coraline: (tugging Other Wybie) Come on, she’ll hurt you again!
(Other Wybie shakes his head in terror then pulls off his glove to reveal a hand of sawdust. He blows his fingers away.)
(High heels click from the stairs; she's ALMOST THERE!)
Beldam: Coraline? How dare you disobey your mother!
(Other Wybie shoves Coraline into the passageway and shuts the door on her)
Beldam: Coraline!
(Coraline, now fearing for her life, bolts down the dark passageway until she made it back to her world.)
(Coraline then closes the door and locks it.)
Tbh when i was a kid i was scared of this movie now i watch it everyday.
I think that the connection is actually just inspiration. And beldam does match the other mother so it makes sense for the victims to call the other mother that. They are also very old, so in their time beldam could have been pretty common. I did originally think of more opinions but I forgot them.
I see Coraline and see it's from your Channel, I clicked without hesitation
I wonder if all three versions of Beldam could be a hint at an older story. Maybe the fairy Maiden who used Belladonna to attract men lost her eyesight to the plant, leaving her without a method of trapping adult men. So over time she sewed buttons onto her eyes both to allow her to see and to make herself appear more doll like so as to attract children instead. Now she had to attract more children because children have less life-force than adults, using dolls to entrance them and lure them to her lair.
Also, what if the Romanian tale is part of the same story? Maybe the living tunnel in which the beldame lives is the forest spirit, the much older and more dangerous thing that sleeps, and the land on which the house is built was once a forest. Back in the day, when a forest was cleared to make lumber it wasn't uncommon to build the house out of lumber from the trees that grew there. So maybe it's like a Narnian wardrobe type thing where because certain wood was magic now the house is too and leads to another realm within the forest spirit that now sleeps because it has no forest to feed it? And the beldam only feasts on children that live in the house so.... revenge on the original people who destroyed the forest and built the house?
Just a few thoughts. Excellent video!
I have a question, why did the Other Mother let Coraline go the first 2 times? Couldn't she have just kept her there by force from the start? Why the pretense?
I think the Beldam is some sort of witch demon because the Beldam uses magic like a witch, but makes kids hearts desires come true and feeds on human souls like a demon. But that is just my idea 🤔
The beldam is worse then pennywise the clown
your voice is so gentle I find myself soothed even if you're talking about things like the Beldam.
I love the way you softly talk, it’s very soothing.
If you look at the kids clothes the beldam couldn’t have been there for longer than like 200 years. Meaning there was more before her and will be more after her. What the cat says about the beldam. Plus when the pink palace was made we can figure out she owned it originally and somehow got to the other world if we look at the garden outline which looks like both coraline and the beldam (in her true form aka the spider form).
A fun little fact, before Coraline my first encounter with the Beldam story, when I was too young to realize it, was from the Cartoon Network series Samurai Jack. The episode Four Seasons of Death contained four short segments all themed around the four seasons. The fourth and final segment, Spring, was a near retelling of the story you detailed here. Well, except the hero got away alive and well.
my goodness, I forgot how much I love these videos... time to binge-watch
Ooh. :3 That is literally like one of the biggest mysteries that seems to need to be answered in Coraline, so I'm glad someone like you is finally trying to address that and see what you can find, ha ha. XD
Hmm... Well, considering her tactics, in a personality sense, she's literally a sociopath. :p Fake kindness and promises, manipulating people with her lies, only to trap them in... an imaginary world and suck out their souls? o.O You could also say she's a female child predator, but yeah, sigh. :p
But in a more... fantastical sense, yeah, what is she? :p She kind of seems like some type of "Emotion/Despair Eater", like a, erm... for lack of better examples, a Dementor from Harry Potter, or something. :p But... much different too. :?
For all we know, she isn't entirely malicious without reason even though she also at the same time seems to like what she does, at least against Coraline, but it might just be in her nature like a vampire to feed off of people... But how, and why? Like, she'd probably die if she didn't, right? Like, I think she hysterically screamed at Coraline at the end of the film that she'd die without her, but who knows if that's another lie to take pity on her despite how far she's come in being a clear villain and a horrible person, or if she means it this time... she'd literally die if she doesn't kill people or trap them. :p
And not just that, but in Coraline at least, the term for what she is literally called a Beldam, which... doesn't seem to be a common folklore name like the aforementioned vampire. :p And like, I wonder if it's made up for the book/movie or actual thing, name change or not, hmm...
So in the end, she really is just some giant metaphor? :p Hmm... still pretty interesting though, I guess. :? Maybe even better for being original, but I was hoping for something more like Hilda. :p At least... I think at least one of the creatures in that is actually old but obscure...
Oh yeah! As far as spider ladies other than children eating witches like the one in Hansel and Gretel, that's... always been a thing, but mixing them together among other possible things... that's unique to me. :?
I wish the movie would have talked about how she buried her own mother and that the portal to the other world seemed alive.
You should do a reading of Coraline like you did for Alice
She can't unless she gets permission from the author.
there's a theory that the Beldam and Pennywise from IT are the same species. both a cosmic horror that feeds off a certain emotion Beldam with love and Pennywise with fear. plus the two have similarities in terms of spider forms and other factors.
That's possible because Neil Gaiman has written for the Cthulu mythos.
@@EmVeeBeen what's that got to do with the theory?
@@drswag0076 it's just that both beings are very Lovecraftian to me. But I think the creature that is really similar the Beldam, is the main antagonist of The Ocean at the end of the Lane by Neil Gaiman. They both have a pocket of existence within our world but it's hidden in plain sight(a la magical realism) and they both have a desire to control people for their(the controlled) own "good".
It's a novella so it's a quick read. Highly recommend it.
@@drswag0076 also Neil Gaiman is influenced by Lovecraft's work. This is probably the answer you're looking for though I'm not sure. Sorry.
Naw. Stephan king says its an alien from outside our universe. They do have similar tactics though
What I love at your chanel is that you have a calm voice and the drawings
2:25 I love how when you say "for different motives" there's a fire in the background referencing the Salem witch trials, a very grim, macabre reminder of humanity's past.
Please listen because I mean this when I say it...
*YOU. ARE. COMPLETELY. UNDERRATED.*
Your videos are top-quality, and the lovely animation art-style and your soothing voice makes it so pleasing to watch. I love how in-depth you look into the history of fairy-tales and legends, and I feel like not enough people appreciate the history of story-telling. Thank you so much for creating your channel
Another really cool and insightful Coraline video!, but the fire breathing scorpion witch really has me intrigued.
O.o
So umm fae are canon in coraline- the third girl who in the movie is the grandma's sister was a changeling in the book-(I think) soo yeah-
In some other videos, what the Other Mother is called varies.
Some call her the Beldam and some call her Bedlam.
Beldam - An old Woman
Bedlam - A Scene of Uproar and Confusion
YES, MORE CORALINE CONTENT
Tbh i already knew about the evil fairy story but i had no idea about that poison. Its all very intersting
The way she says Muma Padurii lolll. Any romanians here?
Edit: Padure means forest. Padurii is just an accentuated form at plural
In Japan, there’s a mythical creature known as a “kitsune”, translated, it means “fox”. These creatures are tricksters and will often turn into beautiful women to lure travelers off the path.
Depending on how they were treated, they could either be benevolent or they could be mischievously antagonistic.
Don’t think this was an inspiration for Coraline, but it is another example of beauty being deceptive.
Almost every culture has a story about beauty being deceiving
Look at you in my recommended
One of the husk children was a fairy? How did I never catch that??
I love your videos, your voice is soothing and your videos help me to relax and unwind after a long day!!!
BELLADONNA
-n.
In Italian a beautiful lady; in English a deadly poison. A striking example of the essential identity of the two tongues.
Devil's Dictionary - by Ambrose Bierce
I haven't watched one of her videos in a while and when I heard her voice my toes curled up so hard it hurt. Amazing video sleep well
i was so excited when i saw this
Hey, muma padurii is in fact real, its mainly a word of mouth thing told by old world russians/romanians. My dad dated the daughter of a finnish diplomat when i was growing up so she took me to this cabin in Tahoe with a bunch of European people every Year around mid December. I grew up hearing about them along with so many others. You can't really find them online, only in reaaaaaaalllllyyyyy old books.
Is there any info on the repeated imagery of horns? There's photos of horns in Mr. Bo's room, and two sets of horns in the dining room- one pair are curled and attached to a skull but the long straight horns hold no skull- and sit on the Beldam's side
I would love for you to cover Thief of Always. It’s VERY similar to coraline with a lot of the same themes
I feel like the ghost children only called her the Beldam because just like Coraline, they didn't know who or what she was until she showed them her true colors and form which is an old, ugly, spider woman or witch. They were also from an older time maybe late 19th century to early 20th century so their vocabulary would be a lot different from today's. And I'm not ignoring the fact Coraline may know what Beldam means but I assume she doesn't because it's not a word that's commonly used nowadays. I don't know maybe it is but I don't use it. But that's just a thought.
HEYYY! I’M BEEN ON A CORALINE RAMPAGE, THANK YOU!
Wow super early for once
Same
This video is amazing!!
Something that confused me is how did the normal mother know which key opened the small door
I pulled up this on my search: The term “Beldam” has its roots in Eastern European folklore. It is an archaic word for a kind of witch. The Beldam is often portrayed as a woman who lures children into her lair only to feast upon their flesh and souls. In some stories, she can shapeshift and create doppelgängers to deceive her victims. The Beldam’s true form is that of a giant spider, and she is known for her malevolence and eerie presence.
you should do a video on the corpse bride. it was based of a jewish folktale called “the finger”
I do wonder why Gaiman used buttons.
Thank you so much for the in-depth explanation of what a beldam is. The narrator seems to be an expert at it. Could she be a beldam herself posing as a soft-spoken helpful fairy-like female?!?!
Me after watching this and having to sleep soon:
Challenge accepted
Beldam is the friends we made along the way