I would love to hear you dive on the topic of “power creep vs meta shift” and how to spot the difference. I feel like with every current generation, most casuals and even competitive players blame every drop from OU as “power creep” but then ignore things like offensive pex being viable and new toy syndrome
You're usually a big hater but I do agree with you on this one. So many (often newer) players attribute mons like Latios not being OU anymore (even though it was UU in gen 7/8) to power creep.
I think power creep suggests that the meta shifts due to stronger threats being implemented. For example, Gengar’s fall off in Gen 8 has a lot to do with Dragapult being a faster Ghost type with a better secondary STAB and higher variety in sets. Meta shift is a more general term referring to something like the viability of Garganacl being tied to the prevalence of Covert Cloak.
@@luckylucas8596a good example of a meta shift is how Moltres was legitimately OU in Gen 8 and then Phermosa was banned and it immediately fell off because the meta literally shifted away from being centralized around phermosa
Generation 9 is my main gen and yea, gliscor is still really excellent despite losing roost. Unlike in previous gens, gliscors main claim to fame this gen is spikes. In DLC 1 it was banned because there is just not enough offensive power to easily beat it, and it completely ruins balance teams. Many of the amazing defensive pokemon before this time, Skeledirge, Zapdos, Dondozo, Clodsire, Garganacl got completely shafted by Gliscor because it makes them obsolete with poison heal, spikes, knock off and toxic. The tier just doesnt have enough power to punish it immediately. It forces great tusk to run ice spinner, and even made zapdos run weather ball for it since Hail/Snow is always up due to Slowking Galar's chilly Reception. Ironically, gliscor made the tier's bulk level to decrease which in turn made the core of Rillaboom + Sneaseler incredibly broken since the bulky pokemon that beats sneaseler + rillaboom, loses to gliscor so its a pretty big trade off that not many people were willing to afford. There was actually a really good core of 6 pokemon which were Sneaseler + Rillaboom + Heatran + Dragapult + Gliscor + Kingambit that ruled the ladder for a while. Because of how much gliscor ruled the tier and made it "boring", it got banned and just few days later sneaseler also got banned because it was arguably more broken than gliscor, and gliscor was one of its better checks. However, after gliscor got banned the meta arguably got worse because every team that isnt stall or HO had mono-boots Zapdos + Ting-Lu/Samurott-Hisui + Dragapult/Zamazenta + Gholdengo spikestack. Every team needs zapdos + zamazenta/dragapult to not lose to Ogerpon Wellspring (strong grass/water physical attacker with non contact stab that gets extra-powered with tera) and every game there will be at least 2 pokemon paralyzed and 4 layers of hazard up with no way of removing them (no defog outside of HARD stall which still runs 6 boots and only 1 viable rapid spinner in great tusk lol, even then, gholdengo blocks both spin and defog) and every game ends with a zamazenta mirror match. Oh and gliscor almost outclasses lando in every way that it almost dropped to UU. In DLC 2 however, with the addition of so many broken offensive pokemon from Darkrai, Buffed Weavile, Volcarona, Gouging Fire, Archaludon, Kyurem, etc. Gliscor became much more managable, it has a great place in balance team but it no longer outclasses every ground type like Clodsire, Ting-Lu, and Lando-T since their defensive utility became much more sought after to handle the tiers huge power increase. Surprisingly, even with this huge increase of power creep, there has not been any suspect tests, the only 2 thing that are over the top right now are Kyurem and Sleep/Darkrai (depending on who you ask). Funnily enough, Gliscor no longer runs spikes in DLC 2, it either runs a stealth rock set alongside spikes iron defense skarmory, or it runs a swords dance set.
@@Rarest26I recommend watching some SPL replays from gen9, what gliscor did vs what gold does are widely different with gold leading to things other than 50+ turns of knock off spam from one gliscor into the other
Or just ban Tera so everything doesn’t get a free choice item and instant ability to cheese by picking some random type from your asshole to live hits you shouldn’t and then win the game. I always found losing to random gimmick Z-moves annoying but Tera is even worse
Love to see this view shared, it’s one of the reasons Gen 6 is one of my favorite gens. I think of Gens 3-6 as a series of steps: Gen 3 was the first proper step towards competitiveness in Pokemon. Gen 4 was a second step, more confident and more powerful, but with intent and purpose. Gen 5 was a misstep: going a bit too hard in some areas while not accounting for leftover mechanics like trapping & weather. Finally coming to Gen 6, it was a step back and 2 steps forward. They adjusted and nerfed certain key presences like weather, Dragons & Steels, and move powers. Yet they also gave more power to many Pokemon to catch them up like the Gen 1 Starters, Gardevoir, Lopunny, Pidgeot, etc. while also keeping the already good Pokemon still reasonably good such as Tyranitar and the Latis. The new mons dex was smaller, but continued to largely try and make relevant options to competitive play. All the absolute broken was really channeled into Mega Rayquaza, and that was with the absolute intent of setting a New Bar for cover legendaries. From Gen 7 onwards, however, it feels like the overall idea has been just sheer “MORE” from GameFreak rather than actual focus like Gen 6 had.
thanks for making into a video a thorough explanation of why i enjoy oras more than other modern gens and feel that it's more similar to old gens in terms of power level than later ones. I think another factor contributing to this perception is that megas were a generational gimmick that did a pretty good job of benefiting both offense and defense, while every following gimmick has been far more of a boon for the former than the latter.
Eh, I'd argue that megas largely benefited offense more than defense. It's hard to ignore that the most hilariously broken mons in XY/ORAS were all offensive megas (kanga, Luke, gengar, mence, and maybe mawile) even if they eventually got banned.
Gen 6 was such a great format for "legacy support". Between Mega Evolutions for popular classics, the new Fairy typing retroactively applying to a few things like Clefable and Wigglytuff, and even the adjustments to everything from high powered moves, Steel typing(and a few others in minor ways due to interactions with the new typing), weather status and Defog changed things up a ton from gen 5's hilarious mess of powercreep.
I forgot how many moves were nerfed during Gen 6. I dropped out of competitive pokemon around that time, so I did not know how much was impacted when compared to Gen 5. Also a critique I have for the video, when discussing base power and damage dealt I think mentioning calcs would be useful for getting the point across. Like telling us how much Gliscor takes from a Lando-T HP Ice in Gen 5 compared to 6, instead of just a nebulous "it takes less damage in Gen 6." Interesting video overall, I do agree that some moves may need slight nerfs. I would also say some balance changes for some moves in general would be nice. Such as Focus Blast becoming 110 BP and getting its accuracy boosted. I would also say that the secondary effect chances of some moves could be adjusted too. Like Moonblast could drop from 30% chance to lower Sp.Atk to 20% chance.
@Blanktester685 I know it does less damage. I was saying that I think mentioning the calcs in the video can help get the point across more. It can show how a 2 hit KO becomes a 3 hit KO, or it can help show how certain attacks may be able to be out healed now with moves like Roost.
Despite Gen 9s reputation, there actually is quite a bit of reverse powercreep with movepools. Scald, for one, was infamously limited and so was knock off for a time. I think restrictions like this are good. This seemed to have hit defensive mons a lot harder though-- toxic being limited, recovery moves nerfed, aromatherapy/heal bell being basically removed from the game. If they did this more interestingly and gave mons actual gaps in their coverage it could serve a similar purpose.
ORAS was the best balance we ever had. You could just agree to not use busted things but now gimmicks are so widespread it’s impossible. I probably have like 1000 hours on ORAS showdown and that’s from while I was a kid with limits on how much I could be online
Yeah at the time gliscor was good but kind of niche, i remember running it as a bulky sweeper with sd ice fang. To see it acting like toxapex now is kind of disconcerting lol
As the generations go by, Gliscor somehow becomes more unkillable. The thing feels borderline invincible in Gen 9 OU (my main gen) at times and Ice STAB is VERY common there as of DLC2’s release, *and* it lost Roost. The thing keeps aging like the finest of wines.
In Gen 9 you'll have Tusk dropping ice spinner and Gliscor Just spikes and toxic/Protect on you Forever oh? Tusk actually used spinner, nice we roll with- Gliscor Takes 48% from It, and toxic you ... huh so yeah, right now It's ok because of Meow/Wile with triple axel, Kyurem, Tytar kinda resurgens with ice moves Still this mon is incredible
As someone who's been around smogoon play but never got into it, I play yugioh and you can't really be in two cults at the same time in life, gliscor always just seemed absurdly unfair to me. It took me a while to understand why lando T was fine, a defensive check that wasn't particularly back breaking to deal with but kept a lot of other things from snowballing out of control, but gliscor just seemed unkillable and hard to deal with.
Meteor Mash might be nerfed in part because up to that point Metagross was a pretty dominant pokemon in VGC. It was actually one of the more known pseudo in VGC at the time due to Clear Body being great and Explosion. If you remember back in gen 5 iirc theres a downloadable Metagross based on the set it was winning worlds 2012 with and pwt/battle tower had a downloadable opponent based on Ray Rizzo's team
They nerfed Meteor Mash's power from 100>90, but they did buff its accuracy from 85>90. Which honestly I don't think is necessarily a nerf because at least now it hits and the more it hits the more its attack proc goes off.
Never thought I'd see someone use "reverse powercreep" and "Gen 6" in the same sentence. Nice. I never thought Gen 6 was as broken as many make it out to be. Even Anything Goes.
Love this topic, my friends and I have talked a lot about this and what defines power creep. It's very interesting IMO, how much has changed from Generation to Generation. Also omfuga mentioned let's goooo Showdown & Melee lord.
CC (and I guess by extension Headlong Rush) has been long overdue for a BP/acc nerf. Moonblast should be 90bp and have its sp atk lowering chance nerfed to at best 20%. Also wouldn't be upset to see Volt-Turn nerfed to 60 (and by extension Flip Turn to 50 given its lack of immunities, solid attacking type, and excellent rain boost). Meteor Mash didn't exclusively get nerfed in gen 6 like most moves, it got a 5 acc buff which I'm sure many people would agree is compensation enough. I'm kind of surprised they didn't exclusively nerf it since Steel got so much better as an attacking type due to Fairy, but then again if they had proper foresight of how good Fairy would be they wouldn't have designed it the way they did in the first place.
I think gen 9 was in a weird position where the factors of Tera and the DLC format of content made it so that there were very limited tools for some very strong mons pre DLC 2 which did result in Volcarona and gliscor bans (one an example of the former and the other and example of the latter) I think the craziest shit about gen 9 gliscor tho was that he didn’t have roost but he was still unkillable (they also gave him spikes cause why fuckin not) also hidden power being gone meant a lot less coverage to worry about
I think the discussion on reverse power creep is weird, like flutter mane is the most insane powercreep, but that mon also has 0 impact on OU because it was banned.
I think that the Idea of more move base power nerf happening is interesting but it is important to do it also in the defensive side. Boots + regenerator means that usual healthy means of wearing bulky pokemon down mean nothing unless you deal at least 33%, very few pokemon still learn toxic to even force them out, and other sources of passive damage like sandstorm don't stick anymore. The difference in longevity between pokemon minmaxed toward it and the ones that arent has just become too large. The one credit I have to give game freak is that reducing the pp of instant healing moves was a great move with how powerful alternative forms of healing became
5-10 BP nerfs are 10-20 BP nerfs in actual play. You’re not OHKOing Gliscor almost ever, but your breaker that was 2HKOing on a roll pre nerf is probably 3HKOing post nerf. This results in a heavier emphasis on entry hazards to make up the difference, culminating the rampage of Gholdengo we’re seeing in Gen 9.
When you slow down hyper offense , people usually shuffle down to defense cringe cuz its ez and safe. Gliscor thrived past gen 5 cuz we were living in a physical attacker meta and gliscor was built for physical attackers .
honestly, the main time I bring up the 95->90 nerf is to complain about how stupid it is that they did this in the same generation they introduced moonblast, the no drawback 95 base power move with a 30% chance to lower special attack. feels extra annoying this gen in VGC with Flutter Manes existence, thinking about how much nicer things would be if this mon was using a 90 bp move
Hey bkc, you mentioned a little while back you wanted to do a “regional forms in their original gen” video, i was wondering if you were still planning on making that vide, because I loved your megas in original gen video and would love to see another one like it
can you explain in the replay shown where gliscor uses baton pass but garchomp doesn't receive the sd bonuses. why does this happen? is this a complex ban that used to exist before baton pass was completely banned? 6:35 for refrence
Another comment (that actually has to do with the topic at hand) Gamefreak likes to make nerfs and buffs in mind for what was dominating in competitive doubles So special bp nerfs? We take a look at gen 5 doubles, and the genies are everywhere, rain goes absolutely crazy, draco meteor is being thrown around to do ludicrous damage that can't be stopped by intimidate/burn/etc Other than Lando-T, all of the stuff I described was crazy special attackers And behold: special nerfs (plus prankster plus twave nerfs lol)
at least they threw metagross a tiny bone by raising meteor mash's accuracy 5 points at the same time they lowered its power 10 points. 90/90 feels a bit more 'fair' than 100/85, and definitely more than 90/85 would be
had this recommended and i thought its a new video until you mentioned you still didnt make video on why finch is evil for making stall broken, when you said that i realized its an old video, lol
I know u hate lazy fans who don’t want to do the work themselves, but I think this video would have been a lot better if you used the damage calc to show examples.
i wish the mons weren’t so min-maxed. It really started in gen7 with the UBs and it creates boring pokemon that are so highly tuned they’re broken or shit. like Chi-Yu, Naganadel, and Flutter Mane on the broken side and Guzzlord on the shit side. i like pokemon that have more balanced or average stats that can make it work, examples being Clef (though Magic Guard is a busted ability), Breloom, Gliscor, Rotom formes, etc
True, but Alakazam is a minmaxed Pokemon that is powerful but has an obvious weakness. It also only belongs in Psyspam teams today, and was its best at this role in its Mega form. Chi Yu may have a weakness but it certainly makes it far harder to use that weakness when it can literally have the correct setup and kill everything with one attack six times in singles.
![[UNCUT] The Loyal Pin ปิ่นภักดิ์ EP.6 (1/4)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/m05kZ2GDKXg/mqdefault.jpg)
I would love to hear you dive on the topic of “power creep vs meta shift” and how to spot the difference. I feel like with every current generation, most casuals and even competitive players blame every drop from OU as “power creep” but then ignore things like offensive pex being viable and new toy syndrome
You're usually a big hater but I do agree with you on this one. So many (often newer) players attribute mons like Latios not being OU anymore (even though it was UU in gen 7/8) to power creep.
I think power creep suggests that the meta shifts due to stronger threats being implemented. For example, Gengar’s fall off in Gen 8 has a lot to do with Dragapult being a faster Ghost type with a better secondary STAB and higher variety in sets. Meta shift is a more general term referring to something like the viability of Garganacl being tied to the prevalence of Covert Cloak.
@@obiwancannoli1920LMAOOO im not a hater. I just roll my eyes
@@luckylucas8596a good example of a meta shift is how Moltres was legitimately OU in Gen 8 and then Phermosa was banned and it immediately fell off because the meta literally shifted away from being centralized around phermosa
Oh please let this be a real video soon!
Generation 9 is my main gen and yea, gliscor is still really excellent despite losing roost.
Unlike in previous gens, gliscors main claim to fame this gen is spikes.
In DLC 1 it was banned because there is just not enough offensive power to easily beat it, and it completely ruins balance teams. Many of the amazing defensive pokemon before this time, Skeledirge, Zapdos, Dondozo, Clodsire, Garganacl got completely shafted by Gliscor because it makes them obsolete with poison heal, spikes, knock off and toxic. The tier just doesnt have enough power to punish it immediately. It forces great tusk to run ice spinner, and even made zapdos run weather ball for it since Hail/Snow is always up due to Slowking Galar's chilly Reception. Ironically, gliscor made the tier's bulk level to decrease which in turn made the core of Rillaboom + Sneaseler incredibly broken since the bulky pokemon that beats sneaseler + rillaboom, loses to gliscor so its a pretty big trade off that not many people were willing to afford. There was actually a really good core of 6 pokemon which were Sneaseler + Rillaboom + Heatran + Dragapult + Gliscor + Kingambit that ruled the ladder for a while. Because of how much gliscor ruled the tier and made it "boring", it got banned and just few days later sneaseler also got banned because it was arguably more broken than gliscor, and gliscor was one of its better checks. However, after gliscor got banned the meta arguably got worse because every team that isnt stall or HO had mono-boots Zapdos + Ting-Lu/Samurott-Hisui + Dragapult/Zamazenta + Gholdengo spikestack. Every team needs zapdos + zamazenta/dragapult to not lose to Ogerpon Wellspring (strong grass/water physical attacker with non contact stab that gets extra-powered with tera) and every game there will be at least 2 pokemon paralyzed and 4 layers of hazard up with no way of removing them (no defog outside of HARD stall which still runs 6 boots and only 1 viable rapid spinner in great tusk lol, even then, gholdengo blocks both spin and defog) and every game ends with a zamazenta mirror match. Oh and gliscor almost outclasses lando in every way that it almost dropped to UU.
In DLC 2 however, with the addition of so many broken offensive pokemon from Darkrai, Buffed Weavile, Volcarona, Gouging Fire, Archaludon, Kyurem, etc. Gliscor became much more managable, it has a great place in balance team but it no longer outclasses every ground type like Clodsire, Ting-Lu, and Lando-T since their defensive utility became much more sought after to handle the tiers huge power increase. Surprisingly, even with this huge increase of power creep, there has not been any suspect tests, the only 2 thing that are over the top right now are Kyurem and Sleep/Darkrai (depending on who you ask). Funnily enough, Gliscor no longer runs spikes in DLC 2, it either runs a stealth rock set alongside spikes iron defense skarmory, or it runs a swords dance set.
Absolutely insanely great comment
its insane that basically 3/4 of tusk’s moveset was near mandatory (Ground Move, Rapid Spin, Ice Spinner)
tfw gliscor got banned for being boring but ghold hasn’t even been suspected for it
@@Rarest26I recommend watching some SPL replays from gen9, what gliscor did vs what gold does are widely different with gold leading to things other than 50+ turns of knock off spam from one gliscor into the other
Or just ban Tera so everything doesn’t get a free choice item and instant ability to cheese by picking some random type from your asshole to live hits you shouldn’t and then win the game. I always found losing to random gimmick Z-moves annoying but Tera is even worse
who paid you to showcase 2 tdk wins
the jerk's pernicious influence corrodes all borders
The fact that gen6 managed to improve defensive playstyles WHILE nerfing steels is proof GF can care about competitive pokemon when they want to
Love to see this view shared, it’s one of the reasons Gen 6 is one of my favorite gens. I think of Gens 3-6 as a series of steps: Gen 3 was the first proper step towards competitiveness in Pokemon. Gen 4 was a second step, more confident and more powerful, but with intent and purpose. Gen 5 was a misstep: going a bit too hard in some areas while not accounting for leftover mechanics like trapping & weather. Finally coming to Gen 6, it was a step back and 2 steps forward. They adjusted and nerfed certain key presences like weather, Dragons & Steels, and move powers. Yet they also gave more power to many Pokemon to catch them up like the Gen 1 Starters, Gardevoir, Lopunny, Pidgeot, etc. while also keeping the already good Pokemon still reasonably good such as Tyranitar and the Latis. The new mons dex was smaller, but continued to largely try and make relevant options to competitive play. All the absolute broken was really channeled into Mega Rayquaza, and that was with the absolute intent of setting a New Bar for cover legendaries. From Gen 7 onwards, however, it feels like the overall idea has been just sheer “MORE” from GameFreak rather than actual focus like Gen 6 had.
And now the gliscor is a water type
thanks for making into a video a thorough explanation of why i enjoy oras more than other modern gens and feel that it's more similar to old gens in terms of power level than later ones. I think another factor contributing to this perception is that megas were a generational gimmick that did a pretty good job of benefiting both offense and defense, while every following gimmick has been far more of a boon for the former than the latter.
Eh, I'd argue that megas largely benefited offense more than defense. It's hard to ignore that the most hilariously broken mons in XY/ORAS were all offensive megas (kanga, Luke, gengar, mence, and maybe mawile) even if they eventually got banned.
One thing is that you can also ban individual megas instead of the entire universal mechanic
Gen 6 was such a great format for "legacy support". Between Mega Evolutions for popular classics, the new Fairy typing retroactively applying to a few things like Clefable and Wigglytuff, and even the adjustments to everything from high powered moves, Steel typing(and a few others in minor ways due to interactions with the new typing), weather status and Defog changed things up a ton from gen 5's hilarious mess of powercreep.
I forgot how many moves were nerfed during Gen 6. I dropped out of competitive pokemon around that time, so I did not know how much was impacted when compared to Gen 5.
Also a critique I have for the video, when discussing base power and damage dealt I think mentioning calcs would be useful for getting the point across. Like telling us how much Gliscor takes from a Lando-T HP Ice in Gen 5 compared to 6, instead of just a nebulous "it takes less damage in Gen 6."
Interesting video overall, I do agree that some moves may need slight nerfs. I would also say some balance changes for some moves in general would be nice. Such as Focus Blast becoming 110 BP and getting its accuracy boosted. I would also say that the secondary effect chances of some moves could be adjusted too. Like Moonblast could drop from 30% chance to lower Sp.Atk to 20% chance.
It does take less damage... Run through calcs if your that curious.
@Blanktester685 I know it does less damage. I was saying that I think mentioning the calcs in the video can help get the point across more. It can show how a 2 hit KO becomes a 3 hit KO, or it can help show how certain attacks may be able to be out healed now with moves like Roost.
Despite Gen 9s reputation, there actually is quite a bit of reverse powercreep with movepools. Scald, for one, was infamously limited and so was knock off for a time. I think restrictions like this are good. This seemed to have hit defensive mons a lot harder though-- toxic being limited, recovery moves nerfed, aromatherapy/heal bell being basically removed from the game. If they did this more interestingly and gave mons actual gaps in their coverage it could serve a similar purpose.
ORAS was the best balance we ever had. You could just agree to not use busted things but now gimmicks are so widespread it’s impossible. I probably have like 1000 hours on ORAS showdown and that’s from while I was a kid with limits on how much I could be online
Meteor mash got its power lowered, but its accuracy was increased a bit to compensate, which is interesting
I haven't played gen 6 when it was current genn but it seems like Lando and Gliscor switched their positions in the metagame from current to post gen.
Yeah at the time gliscor was good but kind of niche, i remember running it as a bulky sweeper with sd ice fang. To see it acting like toxapex now is kind of disconcerting lol
As the generations go by, Gliscor somehow becomes more unkillable.
The thing feels borderline invincible in Gen 9 OU (my main gen) at times and Ice STAB is VERY common there as of DLC2’s release, *and* it lost Roost. The thing keeps aging like the finest of wines.
In Gen 9 you'll have Tusk dropping ice spinner and Gliscor Just spikes and toxic/Protect on you Forever
oh? Tusk actually used spinner, nice we roll with- Gliscor Takes 48% from It, and toxic you ... huh
so yeah, right now It's ok because of Meow/Wile with triple axel, Kyurem, Tytar kinda resurgens with ice moves
Still this mon is incredible
As someone who's been around smogoon play but never got into it, I play yugioh and you can't really be in two cults at the same time in life, gliscor always just seemed absurdly unfair to me. It took me a while to understand why lando T was fine, a defensive check that wasn't particularly back breaking to deal with but kept a lot of other things from snowballing out of control, but gliscor just seemed unkillable and hard to deal with.
Honestly they probably forgot about Moonblast like how they forgot about Alakazam's buff when giving it a Mega
One of my first gen 6 battles was against a Gliscor & Sylveon defensive core that I actually couldn't touch. It was insane
an 18 min vid feels like TH-cam Shorts from BKC
Meteor Mash might be nerfed in part because up to that point Metagross was a pretty dominant pokemon in VGC. It was actually one of the more known pseudo in VGC at the time due to Clear Body being great and Explosion. If you remember back in gen 5 iirc theres a downloadable Metagross based on the set it was winning worlds 2012 with and pwt/battle tower had a downloadable opponent based on Ray Rizzo's team
Meteor Mash had its accuracy buffed to concentrate
@@goGothitaLOLcompensate
The note about move power generally getting lower is also a big reason why Life Orb feels worse than it used to
This video made me realise how much i want prepatch chi-yu in gen 5. Imagine that thing sending out 120 fire blasts in the sun.
In this scenario would it still have Beads of Ruin? If so.... good lord.
They nerfed Meteor Mash's power from 100>90, but they did buff its accuracy from 85>90. Which honestly I don't think is necessarily a nerf because at least now it hits and the more it hits the more its attack proc goes off.
Never thought I'd see someone use "reverse powercreep" and "Gen 6" in the same sentence. Nice. I never thought Gen 6 was as broken as many make it out to be. Even Anything Goes.
Toxic heal is also a really strong hidden ability
11:55 I find it funny how in Gen 9 with most mons losing Scald in the generational, Keldeo actually is running Surf post-Gen 5 now lmao.
Love this topic, my friends and I have talked a lot about this and what defines power creep. It's very interesting IMO, how much has changed from Generation to Generation.
Also omfuga mentioned let's goooo Showdown & Melee lord.
CC (and I guess by extension Headlong Rush) has been long overdue for a BP/acc nerf. Moonblast should be 90bp and have its sp atk lowering chance nerfed to at best 20%. Also wouldn't be upset to see Volt-Turn nerfed to 60 (and by extension Flip Turn to 50 given its lack of immunities, solid attacking type, and excellent rain boost).
Meteor Mash didn't exclusively get nerfed in gen 6 like most moves, it got a 5 acc buff which I'm sure many people would agree is compensation enough. I'm kind of surprised they didn't exclusively nerf it since Steel got so much better as an attacking type due to Fairy, but then again if they had proper foresight of how good Fairy would be they wouldn't have designed it the way they did in the first place.
I think gen 9 was in a weird position where the factors of Tera and the DLC format of content made it so that there were very limited tools for some very strong mons pre DLC 2 which did result in Volcarona and gliscor bans (one an example of the former and the other and example of the latter)
I think the craziest shit about gen 9 gliscor tho was that he didn’t have roost but he was still unkillable (they also gave him spikes cause why fuckin not) also hidden power being gone meant a lot less coverage to worry about
the way you pronounce Gliscor is giving me critical psychic damage
I think the discussion on reverse power creep is weird, like flutter mane is the most insane powercreep, but that mon also has 0 impact on OU because it was banned.
I think that the Idea of more move base power nerf happening is interesting but it is important to do it also in the defensive side. Boots + regenerator means that usual healthy means of wearing bulky pokemon down mean nothing unless you deal at least 33%, very few pokemon still learn toxic to even force them out, and other sources of passive damage like sandstorm don't stick anymore. The difference in longevity between pokemon minmaxed toward it and the ones that arent has just become too large. The one credit I have to give game freak is that reducing the pp of instant healing moves was a great move with how powerful alternative forms of healing became
5-10 BP nerfs are 10-20 BP nerfs in actual play. You’re not OHKOing Gliscor almost ever, but your breaker that was 2HKOing on a roll pre nerf is probably 3HKOing post nerf. This results in a heavier emphasis on entry hazards to make up the difference, culminating the rampage of Gholdengo we’re seeing in Gen 9.
That 4 paralysis in a row though.
You should do a video about why the hazard removing options are bad in gen 6 !!
When you slow down hyper offense , people usually shuffle down to defense cringe cuz its ez and safe. Gliscor thrived past gen 5 cuz we were living in a physical attacker meta and gliscor was built for physical attackers .
Cool topic/video idea: how would regice and rock change with snow warning and sand stream?
It kinda makes sense...
I feel like Gen 10 might be a repeat of this but we with more powercreep just like Gen 6
Gen 6 is still the best generation after 4, thank you for expressing into words why it was great
honestly, the main time I bring up the 95->90 nerf is to complain about how stupid it is that they did this in the same generation they introduced moonblast, the no drawback 95 base power move with a 30% chance to lower special attack. feels extra annoying this gen in VGC with Flutter Manes existence, thinking about how much nicer things would be if this mon was using a 90 bp move
Hey bkc, you mentioned a little while back you wanted to do a “regional forms in their original gen” video, i was wondering if you were still planning on making that vide, because I loved your megas in original gen video and would love to see another one like it
can you explain in the replay shown where gliscor uses baton pass but garchomp doesn't receive the sd bonuses. why does this happen? is this a complex ban that used to exist before baton pass was completely banned? 6:35 for refrence
definitely not a complex ban! I think it's just a display error
1:53 there is no way you said this while showing a Trosko replay and did not mention him LOL. Possibly the greatest gliscor wielder of the modern gens
The worst part is Gliscor didnt have roost before its ban in gen 9
Another comment (that actually has to do with the topic at hand)
Gamefreak likes to make nerfs and buffs in mind for what was dominating in competitive doubles
So special bp nerfs? We take a look at gen 5 doubles, and the genies are everywhere, rain goes absolutely crazy, draco meteor is being thrown around to do ludicrous damage that can't be stopped by intimidate/burn/etc
Other than Lando-T, all of the stuff I described was crazy special attackers
And behold: special nerfs (plus prankster plus twave nerfs lol)
i feel like something similar was when excadrill was banned in bw , reuniclus started to become way more dumb than it already is today
Conclusion, gliscor is broken since gen 6
Gen 6 Bisharp walked so Kingambit could run
You mean sit down ?
@@DigitalRag3X???
@@jake9107 the model of kingambit is sitting down on its hair
Why is he talking about ORAS like it was 10 years ago...oh wait
7:15 agency mentioned
at least they threw metagross a tiny bone by raising meteor mash's accuracy 5 points at the same time they lowered its power 10 points. 90/90 feels a bit more 'fair' than 100/85, and definitely more than 90/85 would be
6:37
1: how did Gliscor baton pass here, isn't this gen 6 ou where the move ks banned?
2: why did it not pass the boosts?
BKC what’s your thoughts on weather in each generation?
Gen 6 was beautiful and yet it became such a defensive metagame UU took it so much worse as well
10:19 scald/burn too
had this recommended and i thought its a new video until you mentioned you still didnt make video on why finch is evil for making stall broken, when you said that i realized its an old video, lol
Confused about that last replay, was Gliscor UU at a certain time in gen 7? Because those definitely don't look like OU teams
it was! that game was from early 2018, when it was dominating uu
@@BKCplaysPokemonjust checked out the vid you mentioned to find out that info and was about to delete my comment lol, thanks for replying so quickly
Where can I watch your movie Kev?
th-cam.com/video/7PFRks_grOU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=EnCy-yh5YmI2UxuY
Was a shawdown glitch or did i see a baton pass not pass swirds dance to garchomp was there a rule passed in gen 6 of 0 stats passed by baton pass
almost surely a glitch!
@@BKCplaysPokemon ok wanted to be sure I didn't miss some big rule change lol
I know u hate lazy fans who don’t want to do the work themselves, but I think this video would have been a lot better if you used the damage calc to show examples.
3:19
i wish the mons weren’t so min-maxed. It really started in gen7 with the UBs and it creates boring pokemon that are so highly tuned they’re broken or shit. like Chi-Yu, Naganadel, and Flutter Mane on the broken side and Guzzlord on the shit side. i like pokemon that have more balanced or average stats that can make it work, examples being Clef (though Magic Guard is a busted ability), Breloom, Gliscor, Rotom formes, etc
Oh yeah , how you explain blissey one of most min-maxed pokemon ever made
@@EggscellentTreeBlissey is definitely minmaxed, but at least it was only one.
@@rjante2236 I'd argue alakazam is more min-maxed than Nagandel and chiyu.
True, but Alakazam is a minmaxed Pokemon that is powerful but has an obvious weakness. It also only belongs in Psyspam teams today, and was its best at this role in its Mega form. Chi Yu may have a weakness but it certainly makes it far harder to use that weakness when it can literally have the correct setup and kill everything with one attack six times in singles.
@@EggscellentTree This is fair, Alakazam basically forced two new types to exist just to counter it (and Mewtwo I guess)
please say folks more often
BKC
YUP
I still hate the fact moonblast got to be 95bp with a 30% secondary effect. Terrible game design imo